This is Darth Matthew, host of the Star Wars Generations and Superhero Ethics podcast, and I find your lack of membership disturbing.

You can free yourself from the ads of those rebel scum by going to Theethical Panda dot com and clicking joint for five dollars a month, fifty five dollars a year, No more ads, only the episodes, Just as the Emperor intended.

Hello and welcome back to Star Wars Generations.

We are off our hiatus.

I and my partner have created a new Young Wing and have managed to keep it alive for four weeks officially today, quite a feat.

Alex has been going great things at his work.

Aaron has been trying and failing to break the laws of gravity falling down a mountain.

All of us have had adventures, all of us are doing crazy things.

But the summer's almost over and we are time.

We are ready to come back to you all with some Star Wars talk, and we are continuing our journey through Star Wars with our journey through the Clone Wars, where each of us picks our favorite arc from a season, our favorite episodes from a season, and we go from there.

So we're kicking off season two now, and Alex, you chose episodes twelve, thirteen, and fourteen the Mandalor Plot the Mandolor Arc Individually, the episodes are called the Mandalor Plot, Voyage of Temptation, and then Duchess of Mandalor Watch pick these episodes.

Within the Clone Wars.

This is really the deep introduction to the fact that, well, first of all, you get a give pertroduction into Duchess Setine, who I think is one of the most compelling characters in the Clone Wars.

She's a badass.

She like you know what before this we thought we thought of Mandu Or you thought of Mandalorians.

You just thought of you know, Boba or Django Fete in their Clone arm in their Manorian armor, and never in a million years when you visit Mandor, which you thought, oh, an entire planet of pacifists and.

Here we are.

And then you get to like one of my favorite.

Characters in Star Wars obviously is Obi Wan, and you get to see that he was actually in love with Setine always just like a little like crazy like war dropped about Obi Wan and Stein's past and see how a civil war is about to break out that eventually leads to tons of other events in the Clone Wars.

It's just to me like it's the beginning of a really big nexus point in the Clone Wars, being Mandalorian the events that surround it, and we can see Anakin commit a kind of a war crime that I will defend him about later.

Yeah, well, we'll get into that.

So let me just give a quick summary.

First of all, let me actually say, in a moment that is just great for radio, Aaron was showing off her nails, which I believe are obi Wan colored.

We've got the orange and white there, which is looking pretty awesome.

Again, fantastic for radio.

But let me give a quick summary of what happens.

This is obviously there's so many more details that we'll get into, but the episodes are about the planet mandalor Mandalor, which is obviously home the Mandalorians, and at this point in time, the planet is also the head of the League of Non Aligned Worlds, which is very much a play on I believe it's called the League of Non Aligned Nations or something like that, a group of nations during the Cold War that didn't want to officially associate with the US or the USSR here there in that same place, there's a concern that the government is about to join the separatists, or that there's some kind of conflict happening, and the Republic might need to send the Jedi to bring to keep Mandalor neutral or maybe even bring it in on the side of the Republic in the Civil War.

But the Duchess of Mandalora Setene, who as you talked about, is an ex flame of obi Wan in a way we'll greatly talk about.

She is fighting hard against this, she's pushing against it.

It becomes revealed that she has basically made Mandalor into a peaceful planet, a passivist planet as she understands it.

They've gotten rid of their warrior past because it just led the Civil War fighting, fighting, fighting, and all of those old warriors have been exiled to the moon of Concordia, where I believe they've all kind of died out of course, though that's not true.

We find out that Concordia is trying to kind of overthrow the people of Mandalor over to the government Mandalor take it over and make it a big warrior uh center again.

And of course it is the separatists who are behind that trying to help a man named Visla take over.

And Visla sounds familiar.

Yes, this is the Visla clan that will eventually lead to pre Visla and some of the other Vislas who are antagonists for our hero Din Jarren in the Mandalorian show and other things like that.

This is pre Visla.

This is okay, I'm sorry.

Yeah, and then later it's a different Visla that.

Yeah, I think you're right.

The Mandalorian and the Armor, the vis Visical clan, they're all they're all connected to Visit the introduction of death Watch, which is who eventually become the children of the Watch.

They're all it's all one line of Mandalorian klan right there, right.

They're certainly all connected.

I'm not positive it's one line, but that's that's for another's time.

But yeah, So, and there's this conflict and Satin is kind of in this middle ground.

On the one hand, she's trying very hard to not lose to death Watch, but also she knows that if she brings in the Republic and the Jedi, especially Mandolor has this long history of being anti the Jedi, and also just anti occupation for understandable reasons, that it will drive the populace into the arms of death Watch, which, by the way, there's a long history of this.

You know, every time the US went in to prop up a government that wasn't popular, or the USSR did that other places like Afghanistan or whatever it was, like, the population often rises up because they see this foreign group as an occupier, even if they're claiming to help.

So Setin's in this hard position.

They go on a journey to court that she can speak before the Senate, and then they's shenanigans that happened on that journey, and then finally they arrive in Corussant in our last episode, and there's this sort of plot to frame her and to make it look like the people desperately want this help, but that she is standing in the way of it, uh et cetera.

And when the republic forces are just about to launch their armada and sail to mandalor the true plot is revealed, it comes out that this was all a hoax, faked data, et cetera, and that actually the people of Mandlor don't want this help.

And so the Jedi and the chance for Palpatine pull back and don't give it.

Is that an accurate summary?

We think we're not getting in all the details obviously, but does that hit the main pot?

Yeah, it's pretty Yeah, we're gonna get the details in a minute here.

That's pretty accurate, I guess, Like yeah, and that voyage there's did you mention.

The assassination attempt on the voyage?

Yeah, they try to kill dissses that she's going to be a for a minute, Okay, but yeah, it seems pretty accurate to me.

So it's a lot a lot.

Of you know, and within a lot of just assassination attempts, and like obi Wan discovering the secrets that then brings the attention of Satin and it just opens a can of worms.

And I think this episode is this arc is an obi Wan arc.

He is very Him and Setine are the main characters.

We have a lot to say about them.

Anakin is mostly off screen or just there to sort of be, you know, a helper to aunt to obi Wan, but he has one pivotal moment that I think is really central to his character.

Alex tell us what happens.

M Well, listen, justifiably Anakin step okay.

So in the second episode of the arc, you know, there is a plot to assassinate the Dutches Satine and they always like droids are released on the ship to try and kill her.

They're all basically destroyed by anakin to obi Wan.

Obi Wan keeps one of the small tiny assass androids intact so that he can figure out who on board is trying to kill her.

He determines it to be one of the senators.

What's the senator's name, tom Merik?

Thank you tom Merik, and tom Erk takes teteen hostage.

He backs up and trying to escape and it basically OWI want is left with like you know, you know, trying to save her.

He gets her free and Obi Wan has his white saber out.

Tatien gets a gun and has a pointed at him, and tom Mark is like interesting, like, Tatian, you're a pacifist.

If you kill me, like then you're breaking everything you hold dear.

If obi Wan kills me, he'd be justified.

He's a Jedi, but he would never do that in front of like this woman he loves, basically in front of you, like it would change her opinion of you.

And while He's like gloating about how either one of them will kill him.

Ana came out of nowhere just stabs him in the back with a lightsaber.

I actually clarify this whole time.

Tom Malik does have a detonator's handible up the ship.

So there he is like a like stand off going on, but Anakin just kills her, kills him, grabs the detonator, and Obi Wan just goes Anakin.

He's like, what, He's gonna blow up the ship?

So's life is what I am hearing.

I want to read the exact lines because it is so perfect, some of the best filmmaking that I think Star Wars has ever done.

Tol Merrick says, what are you going to do if you shoot me?

You brain yourself a hypocrite to every pacifist idea you hold.

Dear speaking of Setene and you, Kenobi, you're no stranger to violence.

You'll be hailed as a hero by everyone in the ship, well almost everyone.

And he looks at Satine and then he says, come on, then, who will strike first and brand themselves a cold blooded killer?

And then a moment later, who will brand themselves a cold blooded killer?

We see the light we just see the blue lightsaber come out of the front of his chest and then see Anakin and Aaron.

What happens right as we see Anakin and realize he's the.

Killer, so he stabs right through tal Marek.

Everyone goes, and then it goes, and that's it, just a tiny bit of the Emperor's theme or sorry, Darth Vader's theme to remind us the villain he will turn into and how choices are drove him to become the person that is Darth Vader.

It is to me that moment, I think, and I'm not sure we've talked to endless amounts about the prequels, but for me, that moment better helps me understand his path to the dark side than anything in the prequels.

Like it was just so well done.

It was really well done.

I think it like this episode or that episode specifically the final episode, and the way they set that up is just a beautiful way to portray to people how Anakin ended up the way he did, while also introducing this new important character and showing us that Obi Wan has a soft side and he did consider leaving the Jedi Order, but he didn't know if that's what she wanted, so here.

Not there yet, We're not there yet.

I got thoughts on that.

Yeah, well, okay that we're talking about.

There's just there's one more thing on the Anakin note.

I just want to say that, like couldn't cut off his arm and probably gotten the same you know thing done.

Sure, but like I don't know.

It's just a job to keep the peace.

And this man was threatened to blow up the ship kill everybody, and I tried to kill Justice a team this whole time.

So I feel like, you know, a little murder there was probably acceptable in this instance.

So here's my take on it and why I think it is so perfect as I understand it.

One of the things that has been established is that there is a difference between the vows that the Jedi take and what might normal people feel is like moral or okay, and that leaf for example, le Organa, then senator and then General Organa.

One of the reasons why she doesn't want to be a Jedi is because she feels like like she wants to do the right thing, but she wants to fight dirty.

She wants to get down to the trenches.

She wants to cut corn, and you can't do that as a Jedi.

I think the best way to describe it is for people who know D and D it's a Jedi are paladins.

Yeah, Like there are other.

People who can be just as good, but they don't have vows.

And I think part of the whole point is that the force is so powerful and you're fighting again.

One of the most dangerous and corrupting instincts is I have the power to do what's right to make things better.

And a lot of the Jedi vows is problematic.

I think a lot of them are, but a lot of them are around stopping a person from going too far and of allowing themselves to think I should use this power to force goodness on the rest of us, to as they do.

Say in the second movie Attack of the Clones, he just wants to just force everybody to listen and do the right thing.

His goals are completely benelevlent.

But the way he wants to do it is authoritarianism.

And this moment, to me is exactly that.

Because you are right, I think that probably, yes, you can do a fancy trick shot.

You can cut off the guy's arm.

You can talk to him for another hour and maybe talk him out of it.

But if a security guard had come along and just phaser blasted the guy, knowing Anakin could catch it, I have no problem whatsoever.

It's that Anakin, he is crossing the line.

And to me, I from eight million metaphors that do this, and I apologize, but I do think that the path to the dark side is paid for the good intentions.

Like you start down the road to the dark side by by taking matters of life and death and things like that into your own hands, for what you see are and may well be the best of possible reasons.

What have you seen?

Death note the anime no, no, okay, Well, the premise is that like a guy finds a journal that you can write anyone's name in and they will end up dying.

And he uses it at first to kill murderers and like horrible criminals, but then slowly like gets drunk with the power and just starts killing other people.

When it's kind of a similar vibe.

Of like power where you think you're doing good, it's like everyone everyone I'm killing.

With this notebook is is evil or evil people.

Then you are the one determinating that they're evil.

You were being the single lens of justice, and like tal Malik or tal Merik rather was doing what he thought was right, and it was I mean, clearly to our perspective.

You know, he was being evil.

But I think you see what you're saying, Matthew, Like you know that's not Anakin's job alone to determine there is a judicial system.

The records like he could have cut his arm off or like done it in a non lethal way, but I can just for the dramatic killshot.

And something I think that's kind of we're shown throughout this series about Anakin is that it's like, I don't think in his mind he's like, oh, would the Jedi approve of this?

I think in his mind he's like, I am a soldier.

These men, the clones beside me are soldiers.

Would they do this to get it done?

Yes?

So I will have to do it to get it done.

I want to add to that, Matthew, you've seen I'm assuming Matthew you've seen the New Superman movie.

Yes, I have.

It feels very similar to.

Very small spoilers to those who haven't seen it, But like this when Superman and Wilsmen are having the conversation about his invasion and he's like, people.

Were going to die.

I had to intervene, and she's like, it's not your job to make that unilateral decision.

It's a little different, obviously.

But like similar vainably people with power, When can these people make decisions on who can die and who can live?

Isn't their right to do that.

In those situations Because Anakin, it maybe in his mind, was thinking, like everyone here is in danger, killing this one person utilitarianist, I'm killing this one person saved everyone else.

But it's fine.

But there were other routes that take It's just interesting, No.

I think it really is.

I think that's part of the point is that there are times when the Jedi vows prevent someone from doing what is clearly the best thing to do in the moment, and that that's that's a lot of where the paradox come from, and that's what Palpatine is able to exploit.

Because I do just want to say about Superman, I thought to me, I don't think that's aplacable I think the better comparison is when a Hawk Girl decides to just go the Dictator when Superman probably have nothing, would not want anything to do with that, but it's she's just still a hero.

She's a different kind of hero, but Superman is like anyway.

I don't want to go too far in that metaphor, but and I think erin to your point.

The key here is obi Wan doesn't say anything like, you know, if you're supposed to be training someone to be a soldier and they kill someone they're not supposed to kill, you shouldn't roll your eyes like obi Wan should in this moment be like Anakin, No, that was I appreciate why you did that, and yes, you prevented a tragedy, but we as Jedi can't act that way.

We can't be cold blooded killers.

We had to find another way.

And I think to me that's very significant because it sets up this theme of and I'm not blinked any time we started signing.

Who is to blame for Anakin?

I think people treat it as a zero sum game.

I don't mean it that way.

Anakin is at the end of the day, completely to blame for his own choices, but there are other people who made choices that created the situations where they'd made different choices.

I think Anakin might have made different choices as well, and so everybody can be one hundred percent to blame like it's not you.

Have the product of the system, but he still made the choices in the end exactly.

I think one cog in the system here is that obi Wan won't hold him accountable.

And I think that's very significant because and this week can start talking about this now or in a little bit, but this episode is I think more than anything, are about obi Wan having this regret that he didn't go after Setine and he didn't allow himself to have that love.

And maybe that's why he kind of looks the other way with Anakin and Padme and so to me, yeah, I think I hadn't even thought of it like this, but Aaron, you picked up something so great.

Obi Wan not saying anything, obi Wan not holding him accountable is a big part of why Anakin doesn't see that what he just did was of major violation.

He does say, oh Anakin, form of denial, there's a little father in disapproval.

Can we are we don't talk about this?

Can I hop back for a second.

Let me ask one question.

Am I making things up?

Or is this the second time where this kind of thing happened?

Does does this also happen with one of the uh, not the Emodians, but one of like someone from one of the other alien races that we see a bunch.

I know he does it to Admiral Trench lately, he does it the very that's that's a final season of the Colon Wars where you won't kill me and Anakin hits him.

It's like, I am not, you know, I think I might confined by such weaknesses or something.

Did he kill Lot Dodd from the arc with the Scottish Monkeys?

And you're going a little robot from am I getting cut off?

Thank you?

Aaron asked, did he kill Lot Dodd?

Oh?

When?

Which arc?

The arc with the Scottish Monkeys.

I don't think he did.

But that's the only another instance where.

I can think Scottish monkey, what show are you watching?

The Lemurs first season we talked about.

Oh no, they didn't kill him, They just caught him.

He force holds him in the air.

The Scottish monkeys, you want me to say they're pacifist And I just could not think.

I was so confused.

Anyway, Let's now move on to more of the episode.

Yeah, what's hop back an episode?

Real quick?

So like everyone shows up to the point because there's like, you know, been shit going on.

And Satita first is like in denial.

She is like there's nothing going on, there was no war in bossing say like it's all limited like limited issue, like death Watch isn't here, but this isn't the death Watch.

Like she's just like it is so like she.

Doesn't want to believe it.

I feel like and obi.

Wan is like, dude, like Deathlot's just literally claimed this terrorist attack when they blew up this building and killed a bunch of people and then the actual suicide bomber ended up killing himself in front of them.

It's very like we see him in jump off a balcony to kill himself on screen.

It's a very like violent episode.

We we're seeing like people making themselves martyrs because they believe that Siteen is like ruining their culture, that the warrior culture must return.

And obi Wan is just like sucked into this, and he feel like he's so torn in this his mindset of like you know, I need to like you know, get this under control.

But like this woman I love is in denial and.

He's like trying to almost be like caring for her trying to get her to see the truth out.

It's a very interesting start to the arc.

To me, I don't think she's in denial.

I think she's denying it to him because she doesn't want him to I think it's the kind of thing where someone has it's probably a half a half, you know, where like think of someone who like, yes, they have some awareness of a problem, but they also don't want other people to think they have a problem, because then the other people are gonna try and help, and they think that's gonna make it worse.

And maybe part of that's because they're not realizing how bad the problem is, you know.

But I think the fact that it's if she says Obi Wan, yes I have a problem, He's gonna bring all the Jedi to come help her, and it's gonna make everything worse.

And so I think I think that's the tension there.

What I really love is that for rom Com Love to Me, the first episode is straight up rom com and it is one of the best.

Like Enemies, Well, I don't know if this is the enemies to lovers as much as it is the people who flirt by sniping at each other and act like they can't stand each other.

It's very much much ado about nothing.

If you know the Benedict and I forget her name character Beatrice Benedett and Beatrices characters.

Yeah, what did you guys think of that?

That kind of like the sniping, that clearly is a flirtation.

They love to pretend they're not in love with each other.

Yeah, like they love to make it about war versus pacifism.

And there's actually I had a few quotes from I think maybe the moments you're talking of where Okay, there's a few actually from the first episode I wrote down.

One is where Satine says the work of a peace peacekeeper is to make them make sure conflict doesn't arrive.

Obi Wan responds, Yes, a noble description, but not a realistic one.

The teen said, is reality what makes the Jedi abandon his ideals?

Or is it simply a response to political convenience?

Mm?

And like what, she fucking had his number, she sniped his ass and then there was a bombing that distracted everybody, but she fucking got him.

Yeah.

And there's a number of times when she plays with this idea that the Jedi see themselves as peacemakers.

Yeah, And one of them is to Anakin, because Anakin says something about, like as a peacemaker, I have to be on the front lines of the conflict, and she's like, do you hear that?

Contradiction?

But most of it is between her and obi Wan.

They they they fight about like rescuing each other.

They fight about you know, think of every rom com where they're just fighting and fighting.

You're like, will you two please just kiss already?

Yeah, they need to get a room.

Yeah, it's one percent these two real.

Right they and like and like it is revealed, you know, to Anakin.

Vincy like asked about the nature the relationship in the later episode, and like it's revealed that like Obi Wan was on a mission with Qui Gon when he was young, when he was still a Qui Gon's padawan, like a year long mission with protecting Sete, and they were She's like, we were on the run, running away from like like it was just just sort of very like like like romantic and like scanders like young love.

Like they're fleeing together, they're fighting danger, and it's like, oh my god, obi Wan.

And so it actually, like I will say that like the romance though, even though it's very like funny to watch them like poking each other and a lot of what they say, it kind of hits home.

It kind of helps me understand a little bit more why obi Wan was not harsher on Anakin throughout like his relationship with Padame, because you see that, like obi Wan experienced that weakness and probably in his mind he's like I overcame it, Like I said, I still have these feelings for the team, and I'm able to like control them, overcome them and be like a successful Jedi whatever way you want to look at that.

I say successful, I mean like not turn to the dark side.

And uh, Anakin, he's I think he believes that, like you know, well Anakin, you know he has this you know, feelings for Padi Milk.

I know that exists, but like you know, he also could overcome it.

He also it won't it won't deter him, Like oh, I think obi Wan just thinks that because he got through it or is able to control it, and Anakin can too.

And it's just a very excute perspective based in his own experiences.

But I get, like I get we're a human from a human side, I get it, Like why he was so leaning with Anakin, but it is obi Wan's own weakness there that.

Ends up leaning Anakin going farther down the dark side.

Yeah, I think I see it similarly, but I I don't buy that Anakin just completely.

I don't buy that obi Wan didn't know that Anakin and Padmey were together.

Oh he now, Okay, I thought you were saying that that's why he because he thinks Anakin can resist.

Yeah, no, I'm saying I.

Think that, like, like, I think that's because, like obi Wan even says in the second episode, had you said it, I would have got the Jedi order.

I think obi Wan believes Anakin's so young, like he'll get over Padame just a heat, like obi Wan himself got over Satine.

And I think there's like this misconception that like if I obi Wan could overcome my love and I can do the same thing, like it'll be fine, He'll get through it, and doesn't like take it more seriously if it needs to be taken.

I see it a bit differently, but it's probably a mix of all of them, because to me, it's more as someone who had to give up Satine and that was so painful and so hard and maybe a part of him still regrets it that he kind of can't bring himself to stop Anakin.

He can't bring him like he's sort of like I I, yeah, maybe he trusts Anakin not to go too far, but he's sort of like, I'm to let Anakin have with Padme what I didn't or maybe what Qui Gon didn't allow me to have, uh with Setine.

Like it's that kind of like I made this mistake long ago, and I'm not going to force Anakin to do the same thing.

Yeah.

I think it's a good point about just like how conflicted obi Wan is in the balance between like, well we went through like we're.

Going through the same thing I had the struggle when I was his age, like he'll grow out of it, versus like obi Wan really sitting and reconciling with his true feelings for Setina now how even now he'd probably leave the order for her if she said, and kind of hoping maybe Anakin doesn't see that aspect of it, maybe hoping he doesn't understand how far it can go.

Yeah, I mean Anakin at one point says, when I go do this, you go save your girlfriend, and obi Wan's immediately no, she's not my girlfriend my girlfriend, yet Anakin kind of rolls his eyes and they go along.

Yeah.

For me, this really shows and can blame obi Wan on it, but I think also much more I blame the Jedi themselves that at this point there's this real culture of kind of like we don't talk, like the official line is we don't have attachments, and that basically means we don't have romantic sexual connections to people of any kind.

And clearly obi Wan wrestled with that, but and now Anakin is wrestling with it.

But because of this kind of culture, it's a culture of oppression, and they can't talk to each other about it, and obi Wan can't say to Anakin, look, hey, you saw me in Seateen.

Let's talk about you and padme and let's help you figure out what's the right thing to do, because of this culture of secrecy.

And this really shows why that is just so destructive.

It's interesting how the Jedi handle relationships like that, because I understand, you know, they're like very strict no attachments, But it's interesting to see through obi Wan, through Anakin, through even other Jedi, how that aspect really doesn't work.

Yeah, and I think I mean even talking back to the accolade, like asking one twin to give up the attachment to the other, Like it's not possible, it's not doable, and it's not realistic for people.

Like if I think that this way, if every Jedi were to one hundred thousand percent swell excuse me, swear themselves to every moral and idealism of the Jedi, we'd have like six Jedi.

Because there's no way that all of them are going to agree to this.

And I see it as though, like the Jedi kind of nod their heads in service, you know, and then they go home and they kind of work out what they think is the type of society or religion or culture that they can actually follow and actually take part in.

And I think that Quinlan Voss is a great example of that.

Yeah, yeah, because Quinlan Voss is happy being a Jedi f boy.

You know, he will be like I can sleep with people, I just can't develop attachments with them.

He probably talks about it and like more like I can have physical relations with them.

And I also really like that you brought up the twin relationship from Accolyte, because I don't think this is just about romantic love or sexual attraction.

In the book Darth Plagis, which we've talked about quite a lot, one of the things that it gets into is that when at the end of Phantom Menace, all of the Jedi, who themselves all became Jedi at very very young age, they don't remember their families, They never had family attachments to get rid of, and so Palpatine is the only one who understands that you can't just tell this six year old stop thinking about your mother.

Yeah, And it's his attachment to his mother that he can't let go of, and that the others aren't really helping him with that because they don't understand it, and he's good at hiding it from them.

Even then that, of course then leads him to to go slaughter the Tuscan people in episode two and all that.

Yeah, it it doesn't get us very good places by just ignoring the Jedi and ignoring the parts of the Jedi culture you don't believe in.

Yeah, So let me ask you, this is Seteen, right.

That's a huge question.

I think seeing this series in this time period of Star Wars through twenty twenty, like you know, retroactive vision, I think she's wrong because the way that Count Dooku was approaching everything, the way that Sidious was driving the Separatists, there's really no way to get out of it without at least some conflict.

And so I think her, you know, living and dying on the Hill of we will only use deactivators, we will never use lethal force.

So we will never like stoop to the level of those who hurt each other to get what they want.

And I understand that, and I think that's a really important point to be aware of and keep in mind.

But in the story of Star Wars and what we know of Palpatine and the Republic and the Separatists, I don't think she was right.

I don't think there was any reality in which Stine doesn't end up as a martyr.

Well, that's what I will kind of jump into it, because I think there's kind of two There's two main questions that Setin is standing strong on.

One is this idea of holding the pacifist culture that she's trying to push on Mandalor and fully abandoning the warrior culture of its history.

And the other is on her idea that the Jedi should not come and help in this fight.

They're having with death Watch, and I think i'm and I think Aaron, you may be in the same book.

What you can tell me.

I feel like she is wrong on the first and right on the second, and you were mostly talking about that first decision here, and so that that's why I think we may ee an agreement you can can confirm or deny, because I think you're right.

To me, a lot of what this is about is extremism, and I think one of you know, I'm a big believer in kind of pendulum theories and that like the more pendulum swings one way, the more it's going to swing the other way.

And Mandolor had been such an extremist, violent culture that, yeah, now it swings way too far to this complete pacifism side, where you're right, like the Separats start attacking, something may well need to be done.

And I am a believer in pacifism in many contexts, but to me, it's also part the idea of you can't impose change on a whole culture and get them to forget tradition and history and all of this overnight.

And you know, I think that as you kind of pointed out the Mandolor culture, we see a couple of generations later, by the time of the Man our TV show, you know, has kind of swung really far the other way with the children of the Watch and stuff like that.

And I think that's parts of your reaction to what Satina is doing here that I I I honor the idea of that the warrior past is holding us back or fighting too much with each other, that we need to restrain it somewhat, but I feel like she needs to go slower and not quite as extreme.

What's your takeouts, Yeah, I mean it feels like, you know, a little bit similar to what's happened in the US in regards to like, you know, I think that for so long, like we as a country, like you know, you know just said, oh, you know people that like have you know, Donald Trump's ideals, they don't either they don't exist or like they're a dying breed or the very small be just kept ignoring, ignoring, pushing down and like kind of denying outwardly.

And then as soon as.

Like those individuals got a little bit of power, like we see that like there was a weirdly have country actually believes in that, And so like I think that by like trying to suppress anyone believes like her saying we have to be pacifists.

Everyone wants to be pacifist.

Only a small group wants to be you know, warriors.

Like it seemed like it was a lot more split than that.

And I think that by trying to suppress one side, you like kind of like, you know, bring the UH the other one out more.

It's kind of I always think of it's a little different.

But like in episode four, when you know, Leah says the target, you know, the more you tighten your grip, the more systems slip out of your uh, slip through your swoop through your fingers, like the tighter that, like Satin tries to like say, like no, I don't need any help, No, like we are fine, everyone wants to be a pacifist.

The more of it's gonna be rebellion and more of it's going to be like you know, issues that I think happened within the country.

Yeah.

No, I think that's right, and I think that's why I do.

Also think Satin is right that if you bring in the Jedi, it just push the planet right into the hands of death Watch.

M I agree she has their number on that one.

Like if you incite more violence and more political and wartime involvement, you're just gonna encourage our terrorist.

Group, right Yeah.

I mean you look at places like Iran or Cuba or other places like that, a lot of it was, you know a lot of like the rabidly anti American feelings in those places is because America was helping to prop up governments that that people didn't like, say sat South Vietnam.

Definitely, what else about these episodes do we want to get into.

Well, just briefly, it was kind of like the actual assassination attempt of the team was kind of silly.

Little toy robot to a spider robot.

They stuck on two droids who then gave birth to a bunch of little droids what to kill her in an unknown way?

Do you ever see these droids like fire blasters or razers or anything or they just kind of over We just saw and like overwhelm a.

Clone shooper I guess, like stab them to death with their little feet.

It just felt it felt very uh, it felt very episode two, like you know, Papatine says, Douku sends Shango sends Zam sends droids sends worms to kill.

Yeah, that's exactly what to bring up is that, you know, are you saying that the little spider droids don't live up to the proud assassination history of the Separatists as exposed by I have a direct shot to hit you, and instead I'm going to drop these two little worms.

Because that's better.

Yeah did that?

Did I freeze there?

Okay?

Good?

Yeah?

So I don't know.

It just felt very silly, but it was It was also kind of fun.

I mean it was like Anakin and.

The Clones were looking in the dark for these droids and they find this protocol droid, who was like, yeah that was here, Yeah that was allowed.

We're good, always allowed on the ship.

It just felt very silly and dystopian.

And then upstairs, you know, Team What are having their little you know, back and forth in front of the senators and ortefree Todd just wants to eat food.

It's all.

It just felt very silly to me, the whole encounter having very serious undert that's.

The that's the thing.

The version of Chicken.

It was silly, but also like, as a ten year old watching this episode, like that's a horror movie.

That's a horror movie seeing the clone go through the storage container what do they call it, I don't know, the brig whatever the fuck, and just them being like hmm, what could be wrong.

Also, just so you guys know, deep in my cargo bay, thank you, deep in my obsession of any and all clones related to Star Wars, I did, in fact write down the names of Red Eye and Mixer.

I believe with the other clones name because I know as many clones as I possibly could, and they're both fallen.

So yeah, like you said, Alex R, I p to our boys up port a drunk, and the way that the way that the assassin Android picked up the body of Red Eye and was puppeting it like it.

Was a real person, fucking horrifying, y'all horrifying.

I hadn't remembered much about this episode, so at first I was like, wait, is this when we get zombie clones?

Because they do a great shot of it first, just showing you the clone body working like that, and then you pull back en off that you can see the Spider kind of puppeting it.

But yeah, they definitely did a kind of slow reveal there, and I can totally see why to a younger age that would be very horrific.

There, and then we get to the third episode where Palpatine is essentially trying to craft misinformation to force an invasion of Mandor because the undertone there, I believe is because the Empire or the Empire the Emperor future Emperor Palpatine believe Mandolar is one of the few races that could actually potentially be a threat to a future empire, which is obviously obviously in the Mandaloria and you know, we have the Night of a Thousand Tiers and all those horrible things.

But he's so close to like fabricating information, killing officials and getting like warships to invade, and like it's crazy as Senate is not listening to the actual ruler of Mandalin.

It would be like if at the United Nations, like.

France was like, you know, we do not need outside help, like we're handling our little thing ourselves, and everyone said, actually no, we're gonna send every fricking warship the entire world has two your doorstep France to attack you or to like fit to like solve your problem.

It just felt very like it was one of the bigger.

Power grabs i'd seen Palpatine try so far in the.

Show, absolutely, because he's not only going after a huge pacifist like up Planet, but he's going after the head of the systems that do not want to be involved in this war.

Like he is trying to bite the snake out the head and take them out, right.

Because it's gonna take them out.

It's gonna put a lot of them towards the separative side of like, well, the republic didn't respect their neutrality, and I think it's it's putting the Republic, Like can you imagine if the Republican had to fight against mandalor like, that would have taken so many I think the separats would win because that's just like, you know, it's adding a third front kind of a thing in terms of how many people they have to fight and how the talented warriors they have to fight, because much as the teen doesn't want admit this, the warrior culture is still alive.

And well, m yeah, any we've go ahead, go ahead.

I was gonna wrap up, so you go ahead.

First, Yeah, No, I mean I was just gonna say that, like I felt like the uh, the third episode to me, I mean, it was interesting from a senatorial perspective.

But I think like the biggest takeaways for me were from these arcs were like the the interesting revelations on obi Wan's history with Stine and admittance of his love for her and kind of learning more about his past.

The introduction of Satine.

Oh, I'm sorry one, we're thing we didn't I don't unst we talked about while I was off the mico for a minute.

The introduction of the Dark Saber.

Let's talk about that, and I wanted to talk about that briefly, Like this is where we learn because pre Visua basically obi Wan challenges him to one on one combat on the moon of Concordia to defend Satine, and Previsi pulls out the Dark Saber and reveals the history that it was, you know, built by the first men or in Jedi and then later stolen by the Visible Clan and uh or if previously a Jedi and past visit was the one.

I don't what are the visis the one that's fighting them?

Yes?

Who how we murdered the Jedi and when the fall of the Old Republic happened, we took this Dark Saber.

I don't think he even mentions bar Visla.

He did, he did, Tarvisla, I don't.

Let's not get into that, I think he said, he said, I think it's going way down.

Too hard to details.

Just let's go on the okay.

Point is point is introduced to the Dark Saber.

You get to see a really unique weapon for the first time, and Obi Wan is very surprised by his existence.

You get the beginning of the war that is deepened in later episodes, but it was very cool to see that introduced in this arc and is then continued obviously through the Clone Wars, Rebels, the Mandalorian, through so many different yeah properties, and it started and this in this art.

Yeah, no, that's right.

I forgot that.

This is the first time we see the Dark Saber, and it's such a fantastic thing.

And it's you know, it's animated as though it's it's an inverse of a lightsaber because of the way the colors are reversed.

It's black, but then like has the different outline and it's just yeah, it's I I I can't even describe it, but it's it's so it looks so cool and it's just great seeing that, like this really shows how much it's not that the Mandalorians are the best fighter in the world, it's that they've dedicated themselves entirely to learning how to fight the Jedi, and even without the Force, they're pretty damn good at fighting the Jedi.

And a huge thing for the Dark Saber is like even the noise it makes is different like lightsabers, like you know, you know, the Dark Sabers, Like like it's like it sounds sharper, it sounds more deadly, it sounds more scary.

Yeah, Gloria more vital to this fight, and just tying it all together, learning more about how the Mandalorian warrior.

Culture is built specifically to fight Jedi, and then the clones are all clones of Mandalorians and use Mandalorian fighting techniques.

Why because at the end of the day, Palpatine made them to fight the Jedi.

It really just deepened all around the war around Mandalar significantly and obione honestly and like we will revisit in future arcs how this continues.

But I have this arc is one of my favorites because it does so much and such a short amount of time.

George Lucas do what he was doing yo.

To me, this arc when I talk about how the Clone Wars really helps to answer a lot of the questions that you can say that either they improve the prequels, or they're standing for the prequels, or however you want to say it.

This arc is one of the top where I can point to so many things in this arc of this really helps us understand how we get to u from Phantom Menace to uh Rise of the Seth or whatever move it's called Revenge of the Death.

Yeah, yeah, so good, good, good, good arc.

Thank you Alex for picking it.

Aaron, you want to give us a sneak peak of what episodes we're gonna be doing next week?

Oh shit, it's gonna be the Gacean arc.

I'm gonna tell you it's gonna be The Braid Invaders because that was my personal horror film as a child.

I watched that episode.

Hold on me, quick google which ones those are?

You have no idea how many times I watched the Braid Invaders episode because it was the only one that were free on Cartoon Network at the time.

And I don't care because they were good.

They were good, and it shows us Ahsoka as like a autonomous being, not just as a padawan.

And it shows us this new padawan that we never would have met someone much calmer, someone much more decisive than a Soka, one might say.

And to see a Jedi so solid and so in the quote quote Jedi standards to kind of struggle and fall to this point of being literally possessed.

Mm hmm.

Those are my favorite season two.

So we'll be talking about those.

I believe it's episode six, seven, and eight, possibly nine, but yeah, if you want to watch those and get ready for it.

Within a week or two, we'll be talking about uh the Geonosis Sark where everybody, thank you all so much for listening.

Please let us know what you think, send us your feedback, Please check out all the ways you can find the great content being made by both of my co hosts, as well as all the stuff that I do under the Ethical Panda.

Thank you and good night, Stay classy Concorde.

Don I have to tell you I'm opposed to all of this.

I'd be disappointed if you weren't