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We are back.

This is Star Wars Generations podcast, and there's so much of Star Wars we love to talk about.

But if you were like us, you've been counting down the day, is counting down, the hours, counting down the minutes until and Or Season two goes live.

Last night, it happened at eight pm Central Time.

We got to watch the first three episodes.

We're coming to you now and Wednesday hopefully, so we'll go out to you by Thursday morning.

We are super excited about it.

We're super excited to have you part of the conversation.

I'm joined right now by Aaron Alex who are joining us soon.

Aaron, what'd you think of these episodes.

Okay, I'm gonna be so real with you.

So yesterday was a very long day of like school and work, and we had to do like a presentation to children, which is a high stress situation for me.

I'm not great with kids.

I'm really good with them, but they make me uncomfortable.

That's fair.

Yeah.

So I got home at the end of the day and I finished all my homework at like seven thirty, and I was like, I'm gonna watch one episode of American Dad and then like Ander comes out, right, And so I watched one episode and then I'm like, god, damn it, Like I smoked.

I was like, I don't feel like getting into a political drama right now.

Like so, right at eight o'clock, I was texting Alex and I texted him and Or is out and I don't really want to watch it right now.

At the exact second that delivered, he texted me it's and Or dying.

Oh my god.

And I was like this is awkward.

And I was just like no, I'm just like so saddened down.

And he was like, no, you got to do it, and I was like no, I have a responsibility and I know it'll be good.

And within like the first twenty seconds, I was locked the fuck in.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I can definitely get that, and certainly, like within the first couple of minutes it told us, by the way, if you thought last season was political high, within five minutes, we have characters who don't have visas being chased down as farm workers, like this is, you know, so like the fact they even used the word visas.

It was so clearly set up to be about what's going on today.

Everything in it feels ripped from the headlines and so good and so perfect for Star Wars.

I think it was gonna be really fun season to talk about.

I think it's gonna hit hard.

I think someone's gonna be hard to talk about.

So far overall, I was very locked in.

There was one plot line that I wasn't wild about and that I thought was maybe kind of a little shaky, but the other ones I thought were fantastic, and I'm just excited to talk about all of it.

Yeah, it was a really great kind of overview.

I kept getting a little worried that we would spend too much time in one place, because I'm like, damn, we only got three episodes.

For a whole year, and then they would like pick right up, and I was like, oh, we're good, We're good, We're gonna get there to all the stuff.

Yeah, it was a really enjoyable watch.

I did end up going through all three episodes, even though I had an early morning.

It didn't end up being as late as I thought because each episode has like seven plus minutes of credits.

Yeah, so it says they're much longer than they are.

Even though seven minutes there's a lot of time, you get it.

It's girl math.

Yeah, one hundred minutes maybe a little over an hour and a half total for all three.

Yeah, exactly.

So I watched through and I was just so enthralled, and there are so many just like especially after the conversation we had on Monday with Alex about like our thoughts and ideas, and I was just like there was just a few plot points that I just like was shaking my head laughing.

I was like, no fucking way, Like it's good, and.

We're gonna talk about how so the predictions we made, they're already starting to come true.

Some things we were curious about how Star Wars Rebels fans were eating this entire episode, and I want to save a lot of that for one.

Our friend Alex joins us, but I think maybe the best way to talk about this is kind of break it down into the different plot lines that were happening, and we'll start with one that I probably like the least, even some parts were really good, and that's and Or himself and his journey about stealing stealing a tie fighter, an experimental tie fighter, going to a planet to meet up with his rebels, his rebel contacts, where it turns out there's a whole bunch of rebels fighting with each other on a planet that I'm pretty think sure we're supposed to know is we haven't four and then eventually going and going to the farm planet and getting to rescue everybody.

Let's just talk with that first opening scene where he's stealing an experimental tie fighter.

That's the tie interceptor that Thron was so excited about making.

Right, that's not a me question, to be honest with you, I'm pretty sure.

Yeah, Alex would probably know better than I.

But that's what that was my understand Like, Yeah, to me, that was a show telling us within like fifteen seconds, by the way, we know that this is happening at the same time the Rebels.

We're being very conscious of that, and I don't want to get my hopes up, but I think we might get a blue Man on screen at some point in time, like because because this is that time where we know from both the TV show Rebels and from a lot of the novels that one of the people who's working against Krenik and building the Death Star is Grand Admiral Thraun, and what he wants to sink all that money into is this Tying Interceptor project.

And that's I'm pretty sure the ship that Cassie was dealing.

Yeah, that's that's a really sick connection.

Sorry, I leaned away from the mic.

That's a really sick connection.

I love it how they tie and stuff like that tie literally yeah exactly.

But yeah, I loved that opening scene because I was like locked it.

I was like, oh, he's on it, Like Cassian's got it, you know.

And he has that conversation with that girl and I'm like yeah.

And then he goes up to the tie and he like shoots the drraid and I was like, damn, Cassian, don't give up, Bulk.

And then he gets inside the ship and he like boots it up, and I was like, damn, he's killing this and then reverses backwards into the hangar and I was like, you fucked that up so bad, so fast, and it just got worse and worse.

As someone who recently bought a new car and has a couple of times turned on the windshields when I didn't mean too, and my garage door I have a teeny bit of a dent when I reversed when I didn't mean to reverse.

Driving a new vehicles hard.

Yeah that's true, And yeah I related to Cassiine in that moment.

Yeah, I just thought it was funny.

I was having this moment of like, are they like comparing him to Anakin with like this confidence he's about to pull something crazy off?

And I was like, oh no, that's more of an Anakin move to fuck it up immediately.

But I don't think they're making a comparison at all.

But like, that's what it reminded me of for a second, when Anakin's like got that confidence and then he just fumbled from there.

He really did, So he goes from there.

Once he gets away, he goes to another planet that I don't think they said.

It, but yes, he crashed lands on.

The what was it?

We saw?

It?

Told us that distinctive pyramid structures that's it.

Okay, cool, cool, cool, which which are actually ones that existed.

Yavin was shot in Guatemala, which is importantly that's why uh Oscar Isaac wanted his character to come from Javin, because he himself from Guatemala, so more cool times there.

But yeah, that was the one plot line that I kind of struggled with, and I think I really got what they were going for.

And this is where he spends time with this rebel group that the person he was supposed to meet up with has fled.

This other group is sort of connected to them.

It's his own, you know, a group of rebels.

They don't trust him, he doesn't trust them, and eventually they start fighting with each other.

And I really liked what they were saying with that scenes.

It just and we'll talk about what it was, but like it felt like it just went on so long.

Did you get that sense or were you really kind of locked in for all of that.

I was pretty locked in.

That was the storyline that I got scared he was gonna be stuck there for the full like three episodes and I was like, please, cass In, like do something anything.

But honestly, I did love the bickering.

Oh my god, I loved whatever the fuck it was.

When they're like, we've been trying to kill each other for two days.

What if we lay down our arms and play a hand game.

Yeah, it's space rock paper scissors was how they were going to try and figure it out.

Or a person space rock paper scissors with sound effects.

That has happened inters their battles for people have like you know, late stopped and been like, let's do something stupid just to settle this so we can all go home.

Yeah.

I for me, it dragged on too long, but I did love what was being said there because again, so much of this is commenting on what's happening in the real world, and for me, among the things the reminder of like forming a rebellion isn't easy, and like it is going to be bringing a lot of groups together, and when you have a lot of secrecy, a lot of people are gonna trust each other and a lot of people are gonna be pretty stupid, And like, if you don't think that's what happens when you try to form a resistance, go hang out on the online left on Twitter for a little while, and as a proud leftist, I can tell you it's it's hell out there a lot of the times, with a lot of people making a lot of stupid arguments against each other and circular firing squad instead of having good discussions.

And it just felt like this was such a commentary on all of that, as well as being great commentary and where and or is now?

Because you know, back in season one, he was the one who didn't trust.

He was the one who wasn't sure he wanted to get involved, and now he's the one who's locked in.

Now he's the one who's like, you guys, have your petty squabbles.

I want to go hang out with the people who actually have the shit together, who got me to steal the ship?

And yeah, it's like he's so locked in that he's now like he was unsure.

Now he's recruiting.

He's not only recruiting, but he's telling the recruit the whole reason or the whole thing that makes the rebellion worthwhile is recruiting people, right and like helping them away from the empire, right, Like that is a huge change for his perspective on the rebellion and like the trust that goes into it.

Yeah, he's one hundred percent all in now.

You know, even back at the end of season one, he first comes back to Ferrik's, you know, more to like try and rescue Bicks and rescue his people, and you know that's not where he is now.

And I think there's still a coldness to him, Like he doesn't try to give a big speech to get all these rebels who are fighting with each other on Javin to all join him.

He's like he's doing triosh.

Basically, he's like all real stupid and I'm going to cut my losses and you get out.

Like I think you would have been happy to work with all of them.

But when they just got in the fighting and the arguing and then the space rock paper scissors which involves some sort of like menacing dragonface, you know, I got nothing.

He was happy to feese out.

Yeah, yeah, And honestly, like he was literally he was helping them.

He was like, it's raining, don't you want to bank some water?

Right?

Hey, it's foggy.

We haven't seen them in a while, Parimeter anybody, Like He's like spoon feeding them help and they just like can't and they go play a hand game about it.

I think that's when he's like, I can't fucking do this anymore, Like fuck this.

And then that animal came through at the perfect time, just the best distraction on top of him already getting away.

Yeah.

I think that was another place where I rolled my eyes a little bit, because they'd said that there were monsters out there, and then they heard what was clearly a monster, and then all of them just stood around when they heard it and were like, oh, a monster.

We could have never imagined that would be the exact plot point that would happen right about now.

But that's a classic Star Wars thing.

You know.

They love a good monster.

There's always gonna be a good monster.

There's always gonna be I have a bad feeling about this, you know.

They're just things that were just kind of stuck with the Star Wars and so I loved.

I loved how with this monster.

It's like we just left him in his habitat.

He was whooping their asses.

Like.

This is not like a find a monster, kill a monster story.

This is monster gets his home planet and the other guy flies away.

Yeah, I didn't like that.

So often we wind up going off to kill the monster when it's it's not a monster, it's just all living thing, and we're kind of stopping all over its homeland.

It's habitating.

Yeah.

Yeah, so let's switch gears a bit, because then we get a rom com.

We got a fun little couple at home and they're going through their struggles and they're doing their best, and yeah, what do you think of a deer dedra and Cyril?

I texted Alex.

I think it was in all caps.

I went, the eyefuckers are domestic because of what he had said in our episode, which I guess is bonus, but he had mentioned that, like the actors alluded to something.

He was like, I think they were saying that they were just I fucking the entire season.

No, they're actual, They're actual fucking the entire season.

Yeah, so much so that.

She yells at his mother.

Yeah, and actually that plot point or plot line is where I got the name.

You can't see our screen names right now, but my screen name today is Cyril's Diva Flop.

Yeah, because of how he gets upset and he goes it, just flops on the bed, just like faced out.

It was just and it's like it's being in so many sitcoms.

It's a moment that's being in so many movies and stuff like that, particularly where there's Jewish humor, because it's like she's not just this, but she fits very well into the trope of the Jewish mother.

And like often the idea of like kind of the neverhy boyfriend who can't challenge her until his girlfriend or wife often who's you know, not Jewish, but is willing to stand up to his mother and he's like, oh no, you're fighting.

But thank god someone finally stood up to my mother for me.

And yeah, it was just beautiful.

And the mother was just being as evil awful as she's ever been.

And I love her being just like calling calling her out, calling out the uncle and being like, we're not going to worry about what the uncle thinks anymore because actually I'm in the real empire and he's just a joke down to like Cyril, Like when Cyril got drafted into the Bureau of Statistics or Standards whatever it is last time, and he got given this ridiculous speech and he's he's now also recruiting.

He's the one giving that exact giving speech to the new trainee, even though he's flying off and doing all the security stuff with Dedra.

But yeah, he's still in there and he found a way to hunt down some people who were doing oil stealing shit.

Yeah it's Cyril is a simple man.

I feel like he really is.

And their dynamic makes so much sense.

Yeah, it just does.

I am.

You said that they're fucking all through the season.

I'm not sure that their romance is going to last through the next four season, for four years, three three more seasons.

You're right, it's yeah, yeah, each that's part of why I get Yeah, I had that same feeling of like I wish they hadn't spent quite so much time with those people, like just stuck on Yavin, because like it's like I want more to happen this year.

But yeah, so what do you think, like why did we need that?

Was it just for comic relief or why do you think that scene those scenes of Deirdre and Zero were important.

I think it's showing that it's like, like we see Deirdre, that was the first time we saw her, Yes, okay, at home domestic, you know, kind of joking around with her, partner whatever making plans.

And then we also see her telling I don't know the commander's name, but like, oh no, she says it directly to Krenic, she said, we need Gorman rebels you can depend on to do the wrong thing right.

When talking about how to basically like jeopardize a planet in their community, yep, she's like, just wait for the rebels to fuck up and then stomp on them, basically.

And then she goes home and has dinner with her mother in law.

And so this is when I think those scenes there and I want to talk about all Gorman stuff in a minute, because that's really important.

It has some great references in it too.

But I think part of it's there is to show like and Or and the rebels like they're starving to death.

They're trying to figure out how to find anything to eat other than these like rotten food bars and fruits and melons, Whereas these people their life is so hard, that their life is so easy street that the hardest thing is like the mother in law yelling at them too much, you know.

I think it's really it felt like a very different tone, and I think that was intentional to be like this is the very different world.

You know, these people are there with the empire, so they get to have this really nice, comfortable life.

Yeah.

Yeah, And for me, I kind of feel like it's also like we're gonna if this er or relationship lasts into the next year, I think we'll see a starker dichotomy or like maybe starker difference between it's like dear Dru being an actual tyrant at work or dead dr being a tyrant at work and then going home and having like a normal, happy little life.

Yeah.

And I think it's maybe like commentary on how it's like these people who are you know that we would refer to as monster as like war criminals, you know, like in history, it's like but they just have like a family and a life and like they're just like chillin.

It's like that's a person too.

And I feel like so often we demonize people by being like they're a monster, but it's like, no, that's a person and they have responsibility and they did what they did.

Anyways.

There's this wonderful like way of looking in history that I once heard that talks about how at one point in time, there are three world leaders and two of them were like just awful people in their personal lives in a lot of way.

They were constantly cheating on their wives.

They were doing all this lying and stuff.

And then the third one like had a girlfriend for his entire life, loved dogs and it was like really good to dogs the whole time, and like did all these nice things.

And the two awful ones are Winston Churchill and FDR.

And the one who like didn't cheat on his girlfriend at all and was really good with dogs and other things like that was Hitler.

You know, Like it's it's like, yeah, we want these monsters to be monsters in all of their life, but in some ways we want that because then we can feel safer, we can think like, wait, no, I am like a decent person, so I could never be part of these terrible things.

But actually yeah, it's it's we want them to be evil and terrible, but evil can be, Like the book banality of evil is just such an important structure in all this, and.

I feel like, for me, it's like, shit, what were we just saying.

That Hitler was good to dogs?

And right, it's the idea of like people want to demonize them, not think of them as people, not think of them as normal because that could be your neighbor and you'd have no idea, right.

It's like I think, as humans, we want to believe that we can like read situations or catch threats.

You know, It's it's an internal thing.

You're always looking for a threat, right, and like to see people be so you know, quote quote normal, and then what they are at work or what they are elsewhere I think is like intentional as well.

Yeah, I would say.

Yeah, yeah, because it's that it could be your neighbor, it could be you.

You know.

It's the I think people we want to think like we will know a monster when we see them, but the reason is no, it's just that's not how that works well.

And so let's now go into the the other part of deirdre story, uh is Dedra, Dedra, Dedra, thank you, and that because she's part of this isb meeting where they're meeting with Cranic and they need to get these resources off of Gorman, and so they have to figure out a way to deal with the fact that the people like are living there and stuff.

And one of the first things I think it's important to mention is for people who like if the name Gorman is ringing a bell in Rebels when man Mafma goes on the run.

The thing that she did that really angered everyone was speaking out against the Empire's abuse of Gorman.

No, I never would have caught that as someone who's only seen Rebels once.

Yeah, it rang a bell and I did some digging and the other one, this was pointed out to me, I would not have caught it.

But there's a character I think his name is Erskine, It's something like that, but he's one of the people who's helping Mafma escape in Rebels Animated, and that character was introduced in live action.

Oh that's so we were wondering if that escape was gonna happen.

I think we were definitely setting that up.

But yeah, what do you think of the whole thing about the Empire, like introducing us first by this like, you know, a happy little planet.

It has this great weaving because these cute little spiders and oh, by the way, we're going to destroy the whole world because we need to get the fuel that's under the soil.

I mean, at the start of the scene, I thought it was like really funny.

I was like, he's trolling them like he's trolling.

He's waiting to see who says what the fuck is this first, so he can make an example of them, Like he's trolling the shit out of these people.

And then he just stopped it and went on his rant anyways, and then it got a lot less funny and trolley, But I just thought it was wild.

That storyline is very interesting, just like how so many people were so obviously uncomfortable.

But just like the way the admiral or the way the higher up says to Dedra later is like did you accept were you invited to the meeting?

Then you accepted the job?

Right, Like there's no saying no to this, Yeah, like you're gonna do it.

Yeah, And I just thought everything about it was structured so interestingly.

Again, I yeah, and again, I don't want to make this all just about the political references, but I think if you don't talk about them, you're missing part of the show because it's very intentional.

You know, the idea that it starts out with, we need energy independence, and the way they're doing that is by literally just taking energy from other people.

Like if that's not you know, sounds relevant to you in today's world, like you're really not paying attention.

And this whole idea they have of like, well, we're hurt, their local culture will hurt them, but we just have to do it.

And then the attitude of first of all, one of the things they establish is that the reason they have to do this is because Gorman is a well known planet.

People like to buy their stuff, people know Gorman.

Because in another plot line that we'll get to in a minute, we're seeing, like, you know, these these farmers on outer rim worlds being totally abused and treated terribly and no one cares.

But because now they're going to do it to a planet that everyone cares about, Now not only do we have to worry about that, but we have to figure out a way to justify it, and just the cynicism of we have to create a reason why we need to do this to these people, to make these people less sympathetic.

All of that that was in some ways one of the hardest not the hardest, we'll get to that for sure, but one of the hardest parts to watch for me, because it just felt so real and so cynical and so very much like, yeah, I believe it in Star Wars, because it happens in our own world.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's very interesting that it's like, yeah, we need a reason to oppress these people, Like how can we defering these people to the extent that we can just literally suck the life out of their planet?

Yeah yeah, and probably have to evacuate most of the people out of the planet.

Well they say it evacuates is ideal, but in case it's not possible, we need another option.

Yeah.

Yeah, it might be to kill all these people off.

Yeah, which they just let the planet die with the people on it.

And to me, also, it underlines that, like it's easy to see all theron as the first time the Empire crossed that line, you know.

And I think what we're getting here is the Empire has destroyed planets and entire civilizations before.

It's just that the death Star speed makes it much more efficient.

You know, the death Star, you just push a button.

You do it in five seconds, instead of having this multi year plan where you have to figure everything out and come up with all these foot evidence and all this stuff.

Yeah.

No, you're so right.

It's like it's just showing us the underbelly of the empire basically, right, and how it got to where because it's like coming into Star Wars, you know, cold, knowing nothing about it.

It's like, how does a dictatorship get to the point of, like, let's blow up planets, like that's the only way people will listen.

But it's like it shows the progression of the abuse of power and just abuse of peoples and resources, and how it gets to the point that it's displayed on screen.

And I think it's I really like the back filling Star Wars is able to do these days to enhance the original not enhance the original trilogy, because they're amazing as is, but it's like to add I mean, yeah, just backstory.

Yeah, it adds depth.

Yeah, add some depth and add some context for certain things.

Yeah.

And I think that's happened all across you know, we talk a lot about how the Clone Wars added a lot to the prequels, and the you know, a lot of the Mando shows and stuff have added a lot to the sequels.

And while VOT is my favorite trilogy, I think it still needs some filling in.

And and as always, if you don't want the filling in, you can still just watch these the original movies.

Like it's not could change them.

In any way, shape or form.

But if you do want to know more about that, if you do want to know more about how did we get to the point where the Empire can just blow up a planet and not expect the whole world, the whole galaxy to say, fu, this is how, this is the process we get through.

Yeah, I would be remiss if I didn't mention one very important thing about the board meeting for it, because Alex isn't here, they dropped the actual use of unlimited power.

But Kranich is like, you guys don't understand the importance to the Empire of unlimited power.

Yeah, And I was like, no fucking way.

He didn't have the wahaha, but he definitely did say those exact words.

He continued on with more stuff afterwards, but I didn't write it all down because I was just like, no way he said that.

Yeah, No, that was that was awesome.

How did you I know you're a big fan creanic fangirl, how did you feel abouteeing him back?

I'm a critic fangirl.

You were really excited to see Kinnic back.

You like this?

I mean yeah, I do like the swishy cape and I like, actually, yes, he has a very good villain.

I do like his character a lot, love it.

I just I'm just I can't wait to see him get stomped on, hopefully later this season.

A little politically, however, I might just have to watch Rogue one again.

I mean, I think there's no way we don't watch Rogue one after watching the end of vandor like correct, they've said we should do exactly that.

Yes, it's gonna be perfect.

Yeah, yeah, I think one of the things that I like is part of what we're seeing is that there's all sorts of different reasons why people go along with the Empire.

You know, You've got the true believers, people like Cyril, who really are just like, yeah, I think this is going to be good for everyone.

You've got people like Dedra who are really about like they want authority and power and I think they believe in the empire, but also like they want to have their own little piece of it.

And then you've got people who are just kind of like they're all very scared to go along with it.

And this is going to cross connect a little bit.

But you talked about all the different people who are so afraid during that meeting.

But they were still not gonna question it.

We just did a Superhero Ethics episode about the book Sunrise on the Reaping the New Hunger Games books.

But one of the major themes of that is the importance of compliance for fascism and authoritarianism to take over.

And then all the people who yeah, they're scared at their minds, but because that fear, they go along with it and they don't stand up.

They don't say no, this is wrong, that they're part of what lets all the terrible things happen.

And we have to wrestle with that.

Not just point fingers, but let's say, how are we all doing that.

That's exactly what we're seeing in that meeting.

You know, all those people who are it seems like most of them are like, this is further than we thought we were gonna go.

This is not okay, But none of them speak up.

They're all just like holding that fear inside.

And even there were a few of them that asked like very very careful questions about it.

Yeah, that like.

Signaled to discomfort, but like came off as productive to the project.

Yeah, like these people are thinking before they speak.

Yeah, well, because they've probably seen what happens to people who don't, yeah, just disappear, you know, I think we're not quite into the vader will force choke you in the middle of a meeting.

Like I am kind of curious where at this point in time he fits in the imperial structures, and like if he don't show up randomly, or if that's really just kind of starts in a new hope.

But yeah, yeah, I think even which with the Emperor, people know that like this loyalty is gonna get you in real trouble.

So yeah, So Brasso and Bix and a couple of the others from Ferrex have all found themselves on this planet called Minu Raw Minu Row that is kind of like the bread basket for the Empire, and it's you know, they love biomes.

This one seems to be covered entirely by wheat.

That's pretty much all we ever see.

I'm sure there's some other things on the planet, but that's mostly what it is, and a few buildings, and apparently there's so much need for farming here that there are workers who like people who are refugees from other areas often come here, and even though they don't have like the proper documentation they are allowed to be on here, and because they're picking the you know, they're they're doing the farm work that is needed because no one else wants to do it.

Yeah, but they're always at risk of someone coming along and saying, actually, no, I do want to check your paperwork.

And if you think that the connection between this and real life is coincidental, they literally call the documents they're using visas.

There was exactly what is being checked for, you know, who has a work visa who doesn't in terms of immigration happening in this country at this moment.

So yeah, what do you think just hearer that initial setup of what we saw and of you know, Brassel and all them basically being undocumented.

Farm So for me, I kind of like was thinking back to like the chain codes from when the Empire first began.

That's what I was imagining.

So at first I didn't fully connect it until I really like heard them say visa.

Because Okay, here's the thing, guys.

Not only was I kind of sad last night, I had a lot to do.

I had to do my laundry, clean my bathroom, so I was watching it on my phone, so I wasn't like staring at the screen watching the subtitles, so I could have misheard things or missed things.

But yeah, so it took me a second because in my mind, I'm thinking about the chain codes and how they've just been implemented and how these people are on the run from the Empire basically, and then when they were like planning out how to move and all that stuff, I was like, wait a second, this is feeling oddly familiar.

Hmm.

Yeah, And I think that was probably intentional, Like the chain codes isn't something that's widely known in Star Wars.

It comes from the bad Batch, Yeah, but it's not even reference in other things.

But my guess is that that's exactly why they'd used this language, because chain codes doesn't have quite that same relevance even though it's the same basic thing of like the documentation that allows you to be and work in a certain place.

They're just trying to spell it out.

Yeah, exactly exactly, But.

Yeah, I don't know it was that whole thing was just like a lot of anxiety to watch and stress every aspect of it.

I feel so bad for that guy Mel.

I don't know his full name, but I think they referred to him as mel and that chick he was dating.

Yeah, they have.

It's interesting that they kind of hit a lot of the tropes of that kind of storytelling, you know, and that there's the sweet knight white girl who's the daughter of the rich farmer who is dating, yeah, the the undocumented guy, and they have to separate at the end, and I really thought one of them was gonna die, and I was kind of glad at least that they didn't.

Me too.

Also, I thought at first it seemed like the storyline was going to be that her parents turned them all in.

Yeah, But at the end you see this moment pass between Brosso and him that they've actually been like helping to harbor these people, and when the Imperials catch Brosso, he has a chance to turn the rest of them in, and he doesn't.

And it's this kind of like really nice noble moment of Brasso like recognizing like, yeah, they're in a more privileged position, but also they're just as much at risk as I am, and I don't need to take them down with me.

Yeah, okay, yeah, I didn't quite catch that.

Look.

I was just like, Damn, this guy fucking sucks, because that was her dad right, yeah, yeah, I was like, damn the hull I'm having alex with us.

Hi, welcome.

We're talking about visas.

Yeah, we're talking about the excitement on Manu Rau where Brasso and some others are undocumented farm workers whose visas are being checked by the imperials in a situation that has no bearing on modern day at all.

What do you think That popline?

Very very true to the current state of the world.

It's actually funny, not funny, I guess star donning is a better word, but them asked about like checking visas that happens in that first step.

First episode, second episode.

I think both, Yeah, I think.

I think I mentioned the first episode and that was the episode I got to see its celebration, and right after that panel, I got in line for the Ahsoka panel, and immediately around me were.

Two Italians and Argentine and a German.

We're all talking about how ridiculously like like true to the times that that moment was and how it was like We're all like, yeah, it's like scary to just exist right now, and like the fascism that exists in the world is like being just put on phot display in this show.

And it was just really interesting to hear at different people's perspectives on But we all agreed that, like it is, the show was matured and changed to kind of change with the times that have become unfortunately even darker.

Sins twenty twenty two three whenever the first season came out right, But yeah, it definitely struck struck a chord because it's it's it's scary out there, dude.

I mean, there's reports of that happening in America now people just iceoations on trains, checking people's citizenship.

M yep, very much so.

And then we get to Boyd's probably, I think, from what I've heard, one of the most most controversial scenes of these three episodes, but one that is very powerful, where in Imperial Officer finds Bicks and at first starts kind of like implying that, like, hey, if he if she's nice to him sexually, then he will overlook her her being undocumented, kind of offering kind of like the gentle side of of sexual coercion, and then when that doesn't work, it just straight up becomes, you know, a physical attempt.

How did you guys think about that that scene?

I was really scared with where it was going, because I wasn't sure what she would do, right, to be honest with you, like, I didn't know where her trauma would take her in that moment, whether it would be fight or freeze, right, And I was just not sure how far they were going to go.

Right because those who remember Bicks has been not just like traumatized by the Empire in general, but she was specifically tortured by Dedra and the ISB for information about and Or So she she's already been through the ringer before this.

Yeah yeah.

And then she beats the shit out of him.

Yeah, pretty sure she kills him.

Yes, yeah.

When she hit him in the head with that thing and there was like that extra thunk, I was like, ooh, that's a death blow.

He dead, He's a goner.

And then he stood up a little bit and wandered around.

She hit him again.

Hell yeah, I mean got what he deserved.

And then he walked out of the hut and fell and snapped his neck when he hit something.

Hell yeah, I just thought he was already like he was dead.

Oh, he was for sure dead, but like the way his head hit like that, just like yeah, as a medical person said that would have also done.

This is an official opinion of a nursing student.

Yes, very high credentials.

Guys, we declare him dead at that point.

Yeah.

I know there's been some pushbacks and folks saying like, oh, because she specifically names it a rape that he attempted when she's talking to the character, and that a lot of people were clutching their pearls about this.

We even had Star Wars theories saying like, oh, this would never happen.

Vader would never allow this or anything like that.

And I think that's it is utter nonsense because while we have not seen this specific thing happen, you know, Jaba didn't put Lea in that bikini because he was worried she would overheat and big clothing.

You know, that was clearly for like sexual gratification.

And to me, one of what that scene showed to me wasn't like, oh, there's this imperial policy of like everyone go forward and like, you know, sexually assault where you can.

But instead, it's just when you are authoritarian, when the rule is of power not of law, the people who are doing under that are going to get away with itever they can get away with.

And so when they can steal from people, they're going to steal, and if they're the kind of horrible person who wants to try and assault becks like that, that's what they're going to do.

And yeah, to me, it was a hard scene to watch, and I met I know for a lot of people would be much harder than it was to watch for me, And I want to kind of acknowledge that sensitivity.

And there's been some discussion about if there should have been like trigger warnings, and I think that's not a discussion I can really comment on, but in terms of like reinforcing for us just how bad things are and how not only from the top, but from like you know, the little like guy running up patrol who thinks he's empowered to do these things, to do horrible things like this, Like it was it was important to show that.

Yeah, that's more to just add that.

I think that it not that it wasn't real already, but that scene to me.

Really brought home just how, you know, how vile every level of the Empire is and this is like sure he's an officer, but like you know, this is a small time operation, and it just it feels like with every episode, my deep hatred for the Empire grows and grows, and it's meant to show you like they're not just these you know, faceless stormshoopery bad guys who fight rebels on the battlefield like they are evil, thugged, power hungry like men who were taking advantage of vulnerable populations across the galaxy.

And I think Star Wars going dark like this is very interesting.

I've wanted a darker Star Wars show.

That was a disturbing scene, But I'm curious, like, as the show progresses, what if they show what else they build to to really hit home.

Because they kept reiterating.

In the end or panel and press leading up to this movie that like or sorted to this show that it's darker, it's more mature, it's meant to really make you think about the people in the empire.

So definitely making me do that.

Yeah.

Yeah, so also unfortunately the reality of real wars that we don't like to think about.

Yeah, and that is what happens in fascist countries if you let them go unchecked.

Just saying, not putting any fingers, Alex, now you.

With us again, I want to give you a chance.

We kind of back up a little bit.

What was kind of your overall thoughts in these episodes.

I liked it a lot.

I was a little.

The very first time I saw the first episode, I was a little confused, just because like Bicks was in such bad shape at night, and then sudden she was just okay working in the field, and I threw me off for a minute.

But once I got the pacing down understood better, I think it's just like the pacing is different from the first season.

The first season was very very slow gradual.

I mean every episode is like a matter of hours versus you know, these episodes are meant to be like three episodes for a year.

But I thought that overall was really strong.

I was.

Really really into the uh I mean into the loose word, but like the the wedding stuff with man Mathma was fascinated.

Was one of the plot lines we haven't gotten to.

That's most interesting plotline to me in the entire first three episodes.

That was heartbreaking, fascinating.

It was a study of the uber wealthy and a fascist regime all in one.

It was I was a big fan of that whole sequence and seeing my Mathma trapped in this world of excess and knowing that she's basically sold her daughter to try and form this rebellion.

Oh my fund the rebellion, Oh my god.

Yeah.

Yeah, well we'll have a lot to say about that.

First of all, I just want to make note and confirm because I think it may have sounded weird that like I had something to say and then Alex he had something to say about the sexual violence conversation and then which moved on.

Uh, just to acknowledge, Aaron, you did not have anything else you wanted to add to that.

Correct.

I think we were kind of pausing to let you jump in if you wanted to.

No, I mean I feel like I said my piece like something like that.

It goes into what I mentioned to you earlier, Matthew about hoping you can always spot a monster.

Yeah, and like.

You could spot that monster immediately immediately, and like, yeah, it's just interesting to think about.

Yeah.

No, I think for sure, and I think there's nothing in this that is being done unintentionally, you know, And I'm sure we're going to see, you know, continued discussion of threads like that.

So, Alex, though the other two things I wanted to quickly see if you caught or what your feelings were about, especially as Rebels fans at the very beginning, the ship that Cassian steals, that's the Thai interceptor that that Thron's trying to build.

Right, that was indeed a tight receptor with shield with a hyperdrive.

Yep, yes, that was very cool.

I'm trying to get my hopes up, but I think we might see a blue Man at some point in the show.

So it'd be kind of crazy that comes true.

Or just mentioned him.

The other one was and tell me if I'm wrong on this, but I'm pretty sure I'm right.

The planet that the Imperials are talking about getting ready to just do these horrible things to Gorman.

That's the one that in Rebels, when mon Mathma was on the run, she says the thing she did to pissed everyone off was she gave a speech calling out the Emperor for the abuses of the people of Gorman.

Yeah right, yeah, yeah, that's what I was in my soup deprived state on Monday, was trying to get at at some point.

I don't remember what I said.

I ran it a little bit.

But yes, absolutely, she like that was her breaking point with the Empire.

Finally, was she give a shining speech about the attacks on the Gormans, which is why I tend to believe we're going to actually see that speech in this show and see her break from the empire, which is going to be fucking so fascinating, which is also what I think would get a if we got a Popakin cameo, that would be when it would happen.

Well, And the fact that we literally are seeing the beginnings of that plot now is just I think you were absolutely right, So great column.

So let's talk about man Mathma throwing back shots and going out to a rave.

Oh there's something else she can do?

What'd you all think of that plot line?

It was my favorite?

Yeah?

I just I just I felt so I felt so deeply for man Mathma and it was just it was fascinating for like a multip levels for me, Like one, if you strip everything else away, just seeing like the cultural traditions of Chandrua by itself without all the undertones really interesting.

It's just really like weird fascinating at that they built this entire like world around that.

The actual visual was the cautions on all that was the choreography of the dancing, all that spectacular.

Then you look at the actual undertones of like you know, all the players that are there, and like my motha having to juggle like her drunk friend, who at first I thought was asking to be her lover, but then I realized was just asking for money.

I definitely had no idea what was going on, and then I thought he was asking for both.

I also thought at the beginning, I thought he was asking basically I'm being underappreciated.

I thought it was asking like for sex, and then I was like, oh no, he's asking for money.

Excuse me.

I wasn't overly clear, but her dealing with that literally like trying to tell her daughter, like, you don't have to do this, it's okay, and her being like I wish you were drunk, just like that daughter fucking just destroying her, her husband being like, so where's your lover?

I mean, like, who's supposed being attacked from everyone on all?

She has no one, and yet she perseveres, she pushes forward, she moves forward, and uh, just seeing though like her kind of resign herself to her daughter partaking all of this and just kind of being indoctrinated, and it's just it was it was like an out of body experience, and the cutting and the way they interplayed the drunken dancing with the battle on.

On that farm world, and with the deaths of people.

People were getting killed, and then you cut back to my mouth by dancing drunkly.

It was just oh my, I think Tony Gilroy wrote that expertly.

Yeah.

I thought it was so well done.

And we didn't even comment on the death of Braso, which was also so like.

I figured we're going to have someone important die in every one of these weekly arcs, but that one hit really hard.

Can have good question Matthew about that.

I'm very I couldn't tell if I was being dumb or not.

And I want to know what you both is the implication that and Or accidentally shot him or or I couldn't tell you.

I don't know.

I rewatched the scene three times and I cannot tell the implications he he accidentally killed him, or he was killed by the Imperials and andrew Or saw it later.

I'm curious what you what you both thought.

I'm sorry to interrupt you.

Yeah, Eric, go ahead a f your thoughts.

I just couldn't tell.

Once again, I was doing some cleaning and I was watching it on my phone, so it wasn't very big for me, and since it was getting late and I had clinical this morning, I didn't want to replay anything.

I was like, if I have time tomorrow, i'll go through it.

I didn't sorry, but yeah, I wasn't sure.

I was like, I definitely need to watch that again.

At some point, I was actually excited to talk to you guys.

I was hoping one of you knew if he was, like, had fallen off the thing dad, just like what happened, Like was he shot by a storm?

I don't know, And I think it wasn't clear, and I think maybe that was on purpose.

Yeah, I didn't know what happened, but I think I think we're I think we're supposed to think that it's enough of a possibility that and Or feels distinctly guilty about it, because also even if it wasn't him who actually shot him, it was him kind of like breaking it all up that caused Brasso to grab the speeder and run for it, and maybe he was going to die anyway, but like he certainly got killed as part of that escape attempt, so I think, yeah, it was it was and Or thinking that like either directly or indirectly, he is responsible for Brosso's death, and you know, I think, like we know how much guilty he's carrying.

That's a plot line that comes out in Rogue one, So I think this is definitely gonna be a big part of that.

Yeah, that makes sense.

Yeah, okay.

I I'm glad you guys brought up kind of the parallel between the battle and the party because I was watching it again it's late.

I had a little smoke and I'm like, are they for real right now?

Like they're showing the squad in the like ship like sobbing and clutching onto each other.

I don't know if it was that dramatic, but that was the vibes it was giving.

And then it's like shandrillan like E d M music.

Yeah, and they're like, and I texted Alex about that.

I was like, the shandrillin party music while the squad morns Brazos death was dastardly, like that was out of control.

And I think that was very intentional, and I think it was supposed to be.

We were talking earlier about how the little sitcom of Dedra and Cyril and his mother kind of undercut that like they have a much more comfortable life, and I think this is supposed to show that, like yeah, Mon does have a much more comfortable and much more safe life in some ways, but also all the secrets and she's having to keep her cousin seeing her girlfriend just at the corner of rye for that one moment as the driver who's going to go off and take Tay and probably kill him.

But you know the idea that basically her relationship isn't lost because that she's more focused on the rebellion than on keeping that relationship.

Like yeah, I think that scene is really meant to be heart heartbreaking from the Mafama family for both of them.

Absolutely.

I do have a quick question while we're on the subject of Tay.

Mister banker, drunk man, mister maybe wants to fuck man?

Yes, is that the guy that she started a rumor about sleeping with during Mask of Fears.

I also trying to think of that.

I could not remember.

I believe it is.

Yes.

I only have the audio books, so I couldn't like go back and look.

I believe it is.

Listeners if if you you remember more and I will try and check it for next episode, but I believe it is.

Yeah, It's like, I don't really recognize the last name, but I could swear to God that was the first name.

Yeah, I think it was.

And either way, it's supposed to all be connected.

And I yeah, I think, I think.

And I want to hear from more folks.

I really want to hear from Danielle written the Star Wars in this podcast a bunch, because you know, we talked with her a lot about the whole topic of indigeneity and how like the world that Cassie and and his sister comes from is portrayed as like they don't speak Galactic basic.

They they're they're very much portrayed as kind of indigenous, less less cultured by our very you know, specifically biased eyes.

And I think definitely too, what's uh his adopted mother's name, it's not Mathma, it's Marva, Marva.

Thank you, uh to her eyes.

She kind of sees them as like, you know, noble primitives or something like that.

But at the same time, this episode was a lot about uh schandrillin in indigenousness.

You know, they speak in the language that they spoke before Galactic Basic came along.

They talk about the rituals, and there's this statue that was you know, thirty five thousand years ago when they were conquered, you know, all this stuff that's all about their ancient history and their ancient culture.

I think that was a very interesting comment on how like, you know, in our own world, like the indigen aity of folks has looked on a lot nicer than it is of brown folks and the like.

And that's I think again, I think at this point chapter sum like, there's nothing that's that, there's nothing that's coincidental in the show, Like Tony Gilroy is very aware of everything that he's doing, everything the writer's room is doing, and so just focusing so much on this being like a native ritual of Chandrilla like pre Republic, felt very intentional.

Yeah, it was.

I thought it was really interesting all the kind of lore we were getting there, and also the way that a shit what's her husband's name?

Oh, Paren, Paren, thank you, The way Paren like is joking through the ceremony.

Yeah, he's like, well, I'm the dad, so I'm supposed to say this.

So here you go, and now the next part I've got.

To do is this.

It's so weird that man is so goddamn unseerrious, Like I just cannot with him, like earlier in the episodes, which she like asks him to deal with a parking thing and that he immediately agrees to go to the bar with somebody like he is just I would hate being married to him.

But he's kind of an entertaining character to watch.

Yeah, I think it's true, and you kind of get why he's a good cover for Mathma in that way a marriage.

Yeah, I really love I really love that Lucian showed up at the wedding, you know, because that's again like he's he's part of like, you know, republic high society.

And I guess is he supposed to be Shandrillin as well or is he just.

Like No, I don't think Luthen is Shandrillin.

No, I think Luthern is just uh.

I think he's just like, yeah, a collector of artifacts and friends friends with all of the high end communities across the rich innercore, is my understanding.

I think we know like nothing about Luthern's background.

Yeah, that's my vibe, But I did know.

I note that in the end or Panela said we will learn more about it in this show, this this season, so we'll find something out that'll.

Be kind of cool, that'll be kind of cool.

I don't want this to go too long.

We've already there's gonna be so much fuse to talk about with every episode.

But let me just ask you, Alex, because it's something I commented on the beginning.

Yeah, what did you think of Rock, Paper Scissors World?

We know that it's Yavin.

My comment was that I thought it was really important to show like the idioticness of rebels sometimes, you know, the the the way you know, even when you're fighting the best of causes you can fight with each other, you cannot trust each other.

But my feeling was it kind of dragged, like there's a point where I was like, Okay, I get it, they're all stupid, and nor was trapped.

Can we can we move beyond this?

Yeah?

So I saw it kind of similarly to me.

It evoked things I've seen and studied about, like like some of the Vietnam Wars were like in Vietnam War and I'm gonna say that again, sorry for me.

It evoked some things I'd seen and read about the Vietnam War.

World like soldiers would like not know who to trust, and they wouldn't, you know, turn on each other and it would just be very scary, and like I think it was meant to like make you realize that, especially in the early days of the rebellion, like it just it wasn't what worked on to me.

It was a bunch of people that were scared and brave at the same time.

But I also agree that like after a point I was like, okay, like why are we still here?

What?

And or you could just escape brother, like well this is it felt it felt a little silly.

I also was like very shook when just it was just Yavin.

Hm.

I was like, oh, that's just Yavin all right.

I Uh that was really random, and like are they just is that?

Are they just there now?

Are they gonna get by the animals?

And that just it?

Like are they gonna come back later?

Like I was just a little confused about what the whole point of that was besides just a plot device to keep and Or from being able to get to his objectives sooner than later.

That's what I was gonna say, is I feel like it definitely plays a purpose of giving him something to do so that they can play out the really in depth story that's happening on you said it is mina raw.

Yeah, so that they have the time to address all these really like big topics still, like in a very well done way, rather than rushing through that, so that Cassie's not stuck here for two and a half episodes or however long.

Yeah.

So, yeah, I can understand why they did it.

I said at the start of the episode, like this story arc didn't bother me too much.

I just kind of like went along with it.

I thought it was really funny Alex the way he was like spoon feeding them survival tips.

Yeah, yeah, just slowly.

It's like I think I was about to show you that like Andrew does know a lot, he can stay calmed the situations, but it was like he was again it felt true to what war is like, but it felt like I didn't need to see.

It for three episodes.

Yeah, I think it's fair.

I think also you're right that like they they don't really have anything else for him to do, like I think it would there could have from in one more stop for him.

But yeah, I have one question before we end, and my one question is, Matthew, you asked me on Monday, or you said to me on Monday that you were cautiously optimistic.

And the last time we felt this way about a show, A Daredevil crushed you.

Just from these three episodes, you feeling good, You're feeling bad, You're feeling okay, I'm feeling good.

Okay, I'm definitely feeling good.

I think about the middle of episode one, when we maybe towards the end of episode one, when we got into that plant, I just gave him that planet, but we know now it's Yavin Yavin four, but he got to that planet with the idiot rebels and that scene was going on.

I was like, this, that felt distinctly unlike the quality of season one, and I think that's an incredibly high bar to measured against.

And I think like, had it been almost any other show, I probably wouldn't have minded.

But I think at that point I was starting to kind of gear myself up for you know what, that's okay, it's still gonna be an interesting show.

It's hard to catch lightning in a bottle twice.

This will be fine.

But then by the end of episode by middle of episode three, I was like, Okay, now we're back to everything being just as amazing, So yeah, it was a little bit of a roller coaster ride, but we got there.

Yeah, And to be fair, the first time I saw end Or season one, I thought the first few episodes were like a little bit too slow for me, and it took me like to episode three to really like be in it.

So I appreciate them releasing three at a time, and I'm excited to see where the next year goes.

Yeah.

Yeah, I definitely think if we had, like if we'd gone to the end of episode one, I would have been a little bit weary.

And yeah, I would agree anyway.

And that's what kind of the vibe I got when we when I watched it celebration to everyone was really excited, and then everyone was like, wait, what.

Just happened at the end of episode one?

That was a little and we're.

Like wait, like we need more now, and then we weren't given more and like, wait, what just happened?

But it's all good Now we're.

Fine, exactly Aaron, And who ask questions or comments for us when we wrap up?

Isn't that a nice light I get through my apartment?

Yeah?

Gets my My next one is being blocked by a shade because I don't want in my eyes.

Oh for a while, you have like half your face and shadow right now.

Legit makes you look like a Star Wars alien.

Oh thanks, use my knowledge.

Oh, I looked it up.

I am pretty sure Takoma is not the person who's rumored to be because the person who is rumored to be her lover, I think is someone she had like dated in the past, whereas Tay is just said to be like a childhood friend.

So basically the rumors are going around that my mathma is like sweeping with multiple men at this point, she just falking.

Right, a powerful woman of course, Like that's you.

Know, that's how the rumors work.

Yeah, so all right, well, thank you both so much to a listeners.

Thank you.

Let us know what you think.

Want to hear all your thoughts and theories before the next stive episodes, Live long and.

Prosper, stay classy, Chandro.

We need Gorman rebels you can depend on to do the wrong thing.

Yeah, why do I think those rebels on Javin are about to take a trip to Gorman?

Alright, eye bye all