We acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land we're recording on today, but.

Traying everything that we were kind of raised upon, especially like as like young feminists.

I'm going to have a full time job again.

I'm going to have big ambitions again.

I'm probably going to want to be a principal one day, like I know that about me.

Hello, Hello, and welcome back to your favorite podcast.

This is Eat Sleep for Pete and I'm Kelly McCarran.

And I'm key Ree Sells.

And it's great to be back in your ears.

We've got a is.

It Key is really hoping that this week is her last episode for a while?

Can we confirm that?

I'm unsure yet, but we hope for her sake.

Yes, yes, I mean we'll find out more of my peek and pits.

But it's been a doozy.

But I'm actually very excited because today we have one of my favorite people in the world, from colleague to friend.

We've got the lies Ratliffe on as a guest talking about her big what do they call it a sea change?

Well, she quit her dream job, moved rule, and went back to school.

So she didn't just do one crazy life change she did three.

Yeah, queen, everything's turn to shit.

My hit for the week is sleep training.

Yeah, go on.

So there's definitely an upcoming episode in this.

Yeah, there definitely is.

Just that it's hard.

It wasn't like this with Rue.

I know I sound like a broken record, but my version of sleep training, which is more so sleep guiding, I did this with Rue and it was hard.

But like Ru wasn't a huge crier, Suki is just she cries a lot, and it's really hard to navigate that when a lot of it is being there to comfort them and know that you're not going to leave them to cry, but having to sit there and listen to it is really difficult and to see them like sad and of a I do pick her up if she's like super unsettled, but it's really hard and it tests you.

It's just really interesting doing things for a second time.

And I know that it will be okay.

I know that we'll get there, but it's.

Just a lot of people can't do it.

I couldn't do it.

It's so hard.

That's why I had to pay someone an awful lot of money to do it for me.

Yeah, And which all power to you.

And it puts a strain on your relationship because we're both tired and grumpy.

And I was up for an hour last night and I was like, is he even going to come in here and see if I'm okay?

She's been screaming, That's all I was thinking about the whole time.

I was like, he hasn't even got number.

And then you start getting crankier and crankier about it.

Yeah, and then this morning he's like, oh, gude, that sounded bad last night.

And I was like, in my head, I reckon, yeah, why didn't you get up?

And like he did, Like I went to sleep, and then two hours later she woke up crying again, and he got up and did that.

But his resetter was ten minutes, wasn't it?

So it doesn't fucking seemed very fair.

But anyway, there's just, you know, there's that little disparity and who's suffering the most, I should say.

Yes, the suffering Olympics.

That's it.

That's it.

So there's a bit of that going on, which is a bit shit.

You know, you just it never feels nice when you're just a bit annoyed at each other.

But we're laughing about it and talking about it and crying about it so you can survive.

My peak though is also sleep training.

I know this is bad, but just to give you a bit more clarity around White, it is also like a highlight of my week is that I have started working with the Mother Craft Nurse.

So a couple of weeks ago, maybe last week, I spoke about how I had started sleep training and I was just doing a guide that i'd done before, nothing really bespoke to Suki, but had worked with Rue, and basically I wanted just to see what I could improve by myself so that when I started with the Mothercraft Nurse, she wouldn't have to tell me all the stuff I knew.

Like, I wanted to kind of do everything that I knew how to do so I could start from a good base point and get the most out of it.

So we had a big of two hour meeting on Monday.

Took me through everything.

I had already filled out a form, so it was just like really in depth going through everything, and then she put together a guide and then every day I send her how we've gone over the day in the night, and then she'll give me a call and we'll have a quick powwow and make adjustments.

And I was a bit worried because I think when I started doing the guide that I did with Rue, I saw big changes with her day sleeps, Like Suki went from contacting up in twenty four seven to sleeping independently during the day.

And I was like, ah, and in my head, I'm going, so I even really need this mothercraft nurse.

I've just paid five hundred and fifty dollars.

That's it's probably going to be a waste, you know, like blah blah blah.

But the night sleeps were still shit.

And it turns out she does know a thing or two because it's been so lovely just to be able to bounce off and speak in depth about Suki's sleep with someone that cares as deeply as I do, even though they're not in the thick of it with me, and someone that has this kind of wealth of experience and knowledge to be able to reassure me.

So a lot of a lot of that first meeting was like she was just saying, like, oh, well done.

Since we've spoken, you've come leaps and balance.

This is great, Like great work, you guys are doing it.

You're doing such good job.

You know it.

This is going to get us through.

We're going to be able to make a few more tweaks.

And I don't know.

It was just like having a little cheerleader that i'd paid to cheer me on.

Yeah, it's really nice.

So look, we're only two nights in.

The first night was really good, second day was really overtired, and that carried all the way through.

So she was up a lot last night, but of course corrected this morning.

She's been down.

She's been sleeping for a little bit longer than she should be, but that's fine.

But I'm seeing the light as well.

It's just nice having someone there part.

Of your life to encourage you and to guide you.

It's good.

And she has a weird spidy sense.

Because I was kind of feeling a bit defeated today and she called me, like sensing maybe that you're not doing alright, So she gave me a big pep talk and got a little pepper my step and off I went, oh, that's so good.

That's my peak and pets.

Sorry, they are the same things, but for different reasons.

Yes, okay, no, I like that.

What have you got Colt?

My pit is he's going to be so annoyed that I'm even bringing this up.

But my pit is definitely in a meeting with an accountant that we had earlier this week.

Kelly, like, the accountants asking us questions and we are both just bing bonging around with absolutely no idea.

So no idea.

And then I was getting so annoyed at myself because one of the suggestions was Key's like, let's talk about getting zero, which is an accounting software, and I'm like, oh, and I've said no to zero before because I'm like, oh, it just seems like an unnecessary fifteen dollars a month.

Do you know what I realized at three and when I couldn't sleep, Key resells, Yeah, what, I spend fifteen dollars every couple of days on my lives for my stupid games that I play on my phone.

I'm like a closet gambler because I spend money so that I can beat levels.

So I decided that I need to either a delete my games altogether or be restrict myself to playing on the weekends.

And why are we so ridiculous?

This isn't just me, this is in general, me and my friend Jane, who runs a multimillion dollar business.

We're talking about this once because she was like, oh, I don't really know about paying for this subscription to this app that my child really likes and it was like fifty bucks a year and it was teaching him so many different things.

And then she's like, how wild is it that I was too stingy and thought about fifty dollars but would go to kmut and spend that without even blinking.

Why are we so frivolous with money in some ways and then with other ways that will probably benefit us long term?

Oh no, I could never.

Yeah, it's weird, like what we place value on I suppose, And I mean I've always, for the record, I've always thought that we should get zero because it's actually good.

And I didn't realize it was that cheap.

I mean, it's not cheap, but for what it does, it's pretty bloody.

I don't know.

Maybe I'm making that up in my head, but I thought it was something like that, and that's what was irritating me at three a m.

Because I just thought, why are you the way that you are just so disorganized with everything?

Trying to explain to an accountant that I don't know where any of my bank cards are.

So sometimes I've just used the business account bank card and then reimbursed, but reimbursed in weird numbers because I've been reimbursing myself for other things that automatically come out of my private accounts.

Trying to explain that to any professional man, I'm just so embarrassed to be me.

Basically, he was like his face.

He's a really nice guy.

He was so lovely, but like, I'm disappointed in you, and I was like, I know you are.

I definitely came off worse, but mainly because at one point ke goes Kelly's got those numbers, and I was like, no, I don't, No, I don't.

And then we were scrambling because we couldn't even tell him how much money we'd made last year.

That's fine, he'll figure it out.

He's got the bank statements.

That's why we pay him a big bucks.

Okay, And what's your peak?

My peak is that we went on a staycation, so we were both with our families invited to the Higatt Regency.

I didn't realize that there was more than one until Key messages me while she's on the way going, which Hied is it.

Yeah, and you're like, there's more than one.

I was like, there's about three bags, and.

Luckily I turned up at the right one and didn't just then get cross at them when I tried to check in and they were like, ma'am, there is no reservation under your name.

Who are you?

Because they've got this thing coming up for the school holidays, this thing which is like the kids concierge, and they just basically try to make it more special for kids, which is really cute, like super cute.

Rue was in particular, was quite a big fan of the coloring in and the freebies that they had in the room.

She's just like a mother, we discovered, loves a freebie.

She's a little klepto.

She was hiding everything in this high tope that she.

Had and she took it down to dinner and Len was just like, why so cute?

Yeah?

Len was like living so weird with your toe.

But like little robes and sleepers for the kid just really cute little things that seemed small but just really make a difference with kids.

It was good, it was and it was like a fun little thing to do together.

Staycations are the best.

Len had the best weekend of his life, so many fun things, but still because I always ask him on a Sunday night, like what was your favorite part of the weekend?

He said, breakfast with mummy because we had Key's phone died so they were unable to meet us, but ended up being like the cutest little date, just Lenn and I for breakfast the next day, and it was just really nice.

And our message to Key a bit of a soppy message on the Friday night because both of our families together went and had dinner and the kids were pretty well behaved, well, you know, as much as told this can be, I said, it was actually just so nice to hang out as friends, which sounds weird because we hang out all the time, but it's always recording or talking about work stuff or you don't realize when you work with a friend that you don't really ever hang out just as friends.

Ever.

Yeah, Lucy says the same thing to me, and we actually put in our calendars like hang as friends exactly what you said.

You see each other or talk to each other most days, but your friendship kind of gets lost in that because you're not nurturing that you're nurturing like this joint project together.

So it is just so nice to actually hang out and have chats.

And you got me really pissed, which was lovely.

Oh yeah, keys, Oh y'all have a glass of bubbles And I said a glass.

I mean we're sitting here at dinner and we are I mean drink responsibly ladies and gentlemen.

But like our hotel room is upstairs.

Should we not get a bottle?

I know, I was like, oh yeah, we should, and then I just went gang busters.

I just well, anyone drinking with me, you got to keep up if you want to get your fair share of the bottle.

So it's quite fast.

Yeah, be a good food.

Just like so lovely being in Darling Harbor.

I took land down in the afternoon and the playground there is just sick and we had ice creams and it was just so lovely.

We'll link them in the show notes.

If you are looking for something fun to do with your kids this school holidays, of like and have the money to do a stay ca, go do a stay ca.

So cute and fun.

It is really cute and fun and the kids just love it.

So today we've got someone very special to us on the podcast and kind of instrumental to our podcast careers.

I know, lazy, do you realize that we both met you through Mama Mia through podcasting, like you were potentially our first podcast boss.

But we have to bring up the elephant in the room, which actually involved all three of us, and that is Quizish.

Oh it is.

That was our kind of seminole working moment altogether.

It was.

It was when the three of us really worked together.

And also you and I got to know each other really well lies because it was in the middle of COVID and we did a pop quiz show.

It was good.

It was good.

Hey, we've got to drink free Gordon's gin.

There's nothing but it is.

Yeah, I liked that show.

It was a fun time.

It was a kind of a tumultuous time I felt in my career because yes, I did leave and then I came back to Mama Mia.

It was funny.

It was a good moment.

And then yes, Key and I worked together very closely for years on pods as well.

So yeah, and now I'm on your pod.

Who are you are?

You've also got a second baby on the way, You've got a little bit on and you've got a very funny, very strong recently because she's had a little was it adnoids?

She had adnoids out and grommets in.

Life changing, I will say, I know it's only been a week, not.

Yet, call not yet, hopefully, I keep holding out for the life changing with.

I mean, I've been through it twice and both times I'm just like, this is the greatest thing ever.

Yeah.

But that's Phoebe.

She's two next month, and she scares the living daylights out of me in a very good way, in a like I'm raising this strong, fierce, independent female who's going to be a powerhouse.

But like I swear this child has known what she wants since she like got plucked out of my stomach.

She is your child, so that makes sense.

Yeah, Like she's determined.

We had a Mothercraft nurse because I was having trouble breastfeeding at the start, and she said to me, and I've never forgotten this in like I was like six weeks into motherhood and she goes, this baby is very determined.

She knows what she wants out of life, and she's gonna tell you.

And it is the truest thing.

That's just FEBEs.

She's determined and she's strong willed, and yes, she's definitely my child.

Oh I love that.

And you're gonna have a boy.

Funny, I know, And yes, now I'm gonna have a boy my husband.

And I keep saying, what if he's like this really placid little dude and then he's got this big, overbearing sister, that'll definitely see what happens.

Yeah, I think it will.

Because he will probably be a mini Tim then in personality.

Yeah, but Tim's more level headed, but he's also very determined and strong willed, So we could get to the same or he could just be like this little chiller, or as Tim said, what if he's a bit of a wet lettuce, Like he's just a bit blur And I'm like, I don't think we're going to create a bit of a dut a bit of a dud baby, but like you don't know, who knows, jeans Man, they're.

All kind of duds at some point anyway.

Oh they really are, all right, So Lies tell us about the moment you decided to scram off your big, old, fancy podcast boss career to start a whole new one.

Was there a single moment and I really hope it didn't involve me doing something or was it more of a slow realization that things just had to change.

I think it was always going to end up happening this way, because I mean I had wanted that head of podcast job at Mama Mea really since it was invented, and I was determined to get it, and when I eventually did, I did three and a half years in it.

But when I became pregnant and had a bit of a rough pregnancy, was high blood pressure and issues like that, I kind of realized that it wasn't going to be sustainable and I wasn't going to be able to operate the way I wanted to operate in that job while having a baby.

And I was like, well, this is a kind of a pivotal moment, Like I've been here ten years.

I started at Muma Mea when I was nineteen.

Oh wow, I.

Was thirty when I had Phoebe, and I just kind of knew it was time.

And at the same time Tim and I had been saying, we want to get out of Sydney.

We want to be able to be a bit closer to our parents who live in in northern New South Wales.

We want to be able to see them a bit more easily, and we really want to be able to buy a house.

And that's when we kind of said.

Tim had quit his big fancy job at mary Vale as well.

He was a licensee at one of the pubs in the city and gotten a nine to five hospitality job that enabled him to be a bit more free and work from home.

So we kind of said, let's head to Newcastle, like, we love it there.

It's closer to home, it's not too far from Sydney, it's still a city, it's by the beach, it's nice, it's affordable, and yeah, Phoebe was I think four months old when we just I rang me or and I said, I'm not coming back.

And I think I probably went on maternity leave knowing that I wouldn't come back, because I put kind of plans in place that they'd hired someone above me, and I kind of tried to insinuate as much as I could that I probably wasn't going to be coming back, just because I knew I wouldn't be able to do the job the way I wanted to do it while I had a baby who needed me.

Just as much So then do you think that you process some of that shift in your identity during the pregnancy, kind of knowing that maybe you wouldn't come back, or was there a moment kind of post Phoebe where you really had to process Because for me, I know that I went through a big shift because I'd always been very headstrong and what I wanted to do and getting to a certain point and then I realized it wouldn't work with kids in that format.

Yeah, and I had a big kind of like an identity crisis.

Did you go through anything similar?

I don't think I went through my identity crisis until I pulled the plug.

I kind of was very rational in my pregnancy and it was like, this is what I think I should do.

But then the curveball for me was it was in February twenty twenty three and we were talking about leaving and moving and me resigning, and I had decided that I needed a practical job, so I enrolled in a master's a secondary teaching.

Yeah, and that was with a three month old, part time online Thank fuck, because otherwise I would have gone mad.

But that was when I suppose the gears kind of changed for me and I was like, nope, well, I'm just forcing my hand here and I'm doing it because the identity crisis came later when we got to Newcastle and I realized I wasn't lies from um and Mea anymore, because for ten years, for my whole adult last three I was I just I wasn't lies from MoMA Mea.

Key and I both knew of you before we started.

Well yes, actually we met at the first ever Muma Mea Out Loud live show, I remember, and.

I was like, oh my god, it's Lies.

Let's producer Lies.

You were just as part of the out Loud crew as the hosts.

That I think.

It's still something that I kind of wrestle with, and it's taken it probably a full eighteen months to kind of get over and reintroduce myself into the industry.

I suppose as a freelancer because I didn't piss off completely.

I still got a mortgage to paint.

Our guys been freelancing on the side as well as doing UNI.

But it's been a big, hard shift.

It's been like a breakup, but very long and slow for me.

I don't think from the other side, they've been fine.

They've gone on and flourished, and you always kind of wonder when you leave a job, oh, they're going to miss me so much, and it's like, no, that's not business, my friend.

It's also very important for people to remember that when they worry about, like leaving a job or taking a step back or whatnot.

As much as a business might feel like family or how close you are, exactly it is.

Everyone is replaceable, and every hundred percent continue on.

And one hundred percent.

And that's another thing that you then kind of have to wrestle with when your whole career and identity has been essentially in one place and then it goes on and thrives, and you're like, huh okay, so then who am I now?

And when people ask me what I do, it's it's really hard because for so long it was really clear, and now it's like, oh, well, I kind of have my own consulting business, but I'm also studying.

And when I went to see the obstetrician and she asked me what I did to put on my PHM, she wrote down student and I was like, yeah, well I suppose that's true, but I'm really bloody uncomfortable with that.

You're like I'm so much more than that, I know.

I was like, really is that?

Like it's funny because I think of Phoebe's birth certificate and it's like head of podcasts is what it says, my job is, And I'm like, what's it going to say on this little dude's birth certificate?

Like student?

I don't know, I get in my head about that sometimes.

I've never thought about it like that.

And anyone that's been to UNI before, when they're younger, you think student.

God, I'm in my thirties now, I'm not thinking.

Exactly exactly, and it's like, oh, I'm that mature age student I used to.

You're the old one, weird one that we thought took everything too seriously.

Yeah, exactly.

I wanted to know if, like having that identity shift, you moved when Phoebe was four months.

You said, ah, we ended up moving when she was six months, but yeah, okay, decided to put the wheels in motion at four months.

So then you enrolling and you're now a student.

How did you manage being a student and being and mom to a new first time mom too, a newborn.

I don't know how you don't have family around you?

No, no, so we got to Newcastle, we found a place to rent and we started just I suppose making it work.

And I tell you what, like the three naps a day was really good for me.

Once I said she was a good sleeper.

Then no, I.

Finally got it to be able to sleep in her cot after being contact napping for the first kind of four months.

Once I could put her down sometimes easily, it became a little easier that I would just kind of watch my lectures with her in the background.

And that's what I just did for the first little while until she became a bit less of a potato and knew what was going on and decided what she liked and didn't like.

She watched a lot of UNI lectures with me.

And maybe that's why she's so smart and heads for her.

And then I do my assessments on the weekend, and honestly, Tim was also amazing.

If I needed him to take a day of care as if he would do that's why I could get it done.

And my parents would come down like around assessment time and stay for a few days, and as were Tim's mum.

So we just kind of muddled through and made it work until October when she turned one and she went to daycare, and then that, oh thank god that happened because it really kind of opened my world and made me feel a bit more me again.

Until they get sick.

Yeah, until they get sick, and then you're fucked.

But like, and she got sick a lot for the first six months.

I remember your messaging lies and I was like, I don't know what to tell you.

The only way is through.

It gets better.

But it's awful, my god, it is all.

And I kept thinking, thank god I don't have a full time job because like, hey, I was your boss at the time when you came back to work after having RU and I remember, like briefly, like seeing bits of it, but I feel like, yeah, it's extreme, right, Well, you.

Just don't realize till you're in it, and it's like, oh no, you've you've got to go, and you're probably not going to go back to work that week.

I think I got to work one day the first and then I was off until the next.

You just don't realize how much it impacts you, and as a working mum, how hard.

That how much you will catch everything as well, because your immune system is pretty much next to nothing after growing a human, a birthing a human exactly.

And it's I said, my friends about to like go back to work early next year, and she's like, oh, they want my baby to start take care like a few months before I go back to work.

I like, honestly, do that because you might get through it.

Like that's a genius idea.

Like, definitely do that, because otherwise you'll go back to work and then you won't actually go back to work for three months.

Yeah, such a good point, LIZI when you moved to Newcastle, did you get put into a mother's group or like, how did you build your village friendships?

It's still building.

That has probably been the biggest loss because I was on maternity leave with a mutual friend of ours.

So she's been on the pod.

Yeah, she has been on the pod.

And she and I had the best kind of four months with our kids are a month apart, and it's her second and my first, and she's always been my parenting oracle.

So getting to spend those first four months with her literally every day, her at my house or me at her house, going for walks, we did pilates, we'd watch each other's kids, so we could get stuff done.

It was heaven.

And then I had It is so lovely, it was so nice.

And then of course I had Jesse who had Luna, and I had Claire, her twin sister, who had Matilda, like kind of two months before and after Phoebe.

So we'd get coffees, we do things, baby activities.

I had a really great support system in Sydney and getting to Newcastle, my best mates here.

But she doesn't have kids and she's going through a divorce.

So we found ourselves at opposite ends of the spectrum of me like and we keep being like.

Our lives have just gone down very different paths at the moment as what tends to happen in your thirties, and you'll come good.

I'm good, but it's just like very weird time paths.

Yeah, but she was a great support.

My best friend.

We both agreed when we were in our early twenties, when we're twenty seven, we'll both be married and we'll have our first baby together at twenty seven.

Well she did get married and have a baby at twenty seven and I was not single, but like very early days with Luke and just very different paths.

But you know, what her third baby, same sort of age as Letty.

So we came good in came good.

In the end.

You came good in the end.

And then I had to go to dreaded baby classes to try and meet people because did you.

I'm so glad you did, but I know the overwhelm.

How did it go?

The thing about Newcastle is it's great, but it's also kind of a big country town, so everyone already has their friends and.

There's a clique.

They're not really looking for any new friends.

Oh that's so hard that Brisbane.

A lot of people say that about Brisbane too.

I actually think that Sydney is like that, to be fair when you first move here.

Yeah, and it's like all of my close friends I had come from work in the past, and now I wasn't working, so I was kind of looking for a baby friends.

And then so I go to this group every week and I met one really great woman there and we've kind of caught up.

But it's her second kid, so she's got different schedules than I do and we don't have the same day off, so that was hard.

And then I got set up with two really great girls by an ex colleague, Mary, who had two friends in Newcastle, so I hang out with them now, which is great.

How good is a friend that's willing to share a friend?

It's friends set up is the way it has to be, so honestly it has been mainly.

I think I've probably got like four friends now here.

I don't keep any.

I'm open to more.

If you live in Newcastle and you want to be my friend, please the me message.

And what about the shitter that you met up with?

Yes, we met up.

I met up with Brook who is also doing a Master of Teaching, which has been great.

But she's a bit ahead of me but being able to ask her unique questions.

But it's it's like she's now like back at work, so it's the same scheduling right right, It's really hard and you know, friendship dates are awkward.

Oh they're so awkward.

I got set up Laura Jackal who used to work at Mama Mea who we all know.

Oh yeah, you set me up with this amazing chick called Jess, who is on the radio here in Newcastles.

In fact, she's on the radio everywhere in regional New South Wales on hit every morning.

Her daughter's the same age as Phoebe, and I was like, I really want her to be my friend, and look, it's still a process.

We're going for lunch on Friday, but like I did end up accidentally standing her up for one lunch invite, and I thought I kind of put my foot in it until it turned into like content for her radio show, and then I was like, oh, I get this, Like maybe we're good.

If she's a content girlie everything every content everything, bad thing that happen or like funny or awkward or whatnot.

It was very awkward for me, but it was content.

So anyway, he is hoping that like that will continue to blossom.

But it's hard and it's awkward, and we like you have to be like, oh I really like you, but I don't.

It's like dating.

Do you like me?

I'm not sure.

It's so awkward.

I think that making friends as an adult can be one of the hardest things.

Would you say that that was the biggest change or the hardest thing about Oh?

Still is still is one hundred percent.

What's made it easier is one of our close friends.

They've just had their first kid in March.

So my dear friend louis on maternity leave.

So now, like this morning, I grabbed coffee with her, and that's just like the ease of that being like, she's my good friend, she's Tim's best mate's partner.

Like It's just makes life a bit easier.

And I'm really hoping I'm going to ask to be put into a mother's group with this little boy, even though they don't really do that for second time rounds.

I'm going to just say I didn't live here for the first one, because I think that would help.

I think that would help.

So many people have luck on their second or third or fourth mother's group, so I reckon it's definitely worth it, especially in a new area, Like at least you're going to get put with people with the same kid that's the same age as well.

Yeah.

Yeah.

The one benefit of Newcastle, I will say, is it because it is a big country town.

I'm from north of Tamworth.

Originally half of the people that I went to school with and Tim went to school with are here, so you fu into people that you kind of grew up with and you can reconnect that way, which is really nice.

That's cool.

What a blast from the past.

You're like, hold on, I went to high school with you.

It legit or like, hold on, we went to primary school together.

What are you doing?

Yeah?

Yeah.

So the idea then is that you will eventually be a teacher.

Yes, an English culture teacher.

Such a good teacher.

Gosh, those kids are going to be lucky.

What's on the agenda with podcasting?

Like, I know that you've still sort of got your foot footing your toe in the podcast.

Yes, you do do consulting, So will you still want to continue that?

Like how cool for students that want to get into that sort of line of work to have you as their teacher guiding them.

Yeah, I will.

Like I was doing some I suppose teaching work with Afters the Film and Radio and Television school for the past few years, and that's where the kind of thought of being an English teacher came from.

In terms of how it will roll, I just have to finish the fucking degree first, and that is a bit of a stretch, but that will be like probably twenty twenty seven, twenty twenty eight, once I've worked out.

Is it a full degree?

I thought it was one year.

No, no call, it's two years.

But I had to do a bridging subject and then I got pregnant, and that's really fucked things up because I was meant to be done like this time next year, was meant to be finished, like was meant to have done my first prack.

But then being pregnant, I was like, you know what, I'm just going to take it a bit easier.

Yeah, I'll go back mid next year probably and work out how I finish it.

I've got six subjects left.

Oh my goodness.

So like the gosh, just you even talking about subjects and such takes me back and wow.

Yeah it's not fun essays.

Has it given you a sense of independence or fulfillment that you didn't expect?

Like, studying is very different to working in so many different ways.

I go through waves, I suppose.

So at the moment, freelance thing is really fun for me because I'm working on a few cool projects.

And when it's yeah work, when work is fun, it's like, oh, why the fuck am I doing this?

But then I'll have a really good subject and really enjoy it and be like, oh, I'm learning so much.

This is great, like I'm growing as a person.

But it really flips and flops and it's never the same.

So it's I needed a break though ten subjects in plus four bridging subjects.

I needed a break because I was just like.

With a toddler and being with a toddler and working.

And I also think there's something to be said about studying for a job that is guaranteed in the future.

Yeah, because you're really setting yourself up and your family for that safety.

Because the thing is in media is that we've got no idea.

What the one hundred process.

Like if you told lies Key and I in high school that we would be doing something called podcasting, that sounds like a made up thing, you know, we'd never heard of it.

So and because of how fast technology and that world moves, we've got no idea what the future holds.

I just think that having something that is guaranteed and that you will enjoy and that you're going to be good at, that you can do until you retire.

Wow.

I don't think we talk enough about safe jobs, that's the thing.

And it's like keep saying like why the fuck didn't I do this, Like straight out of school, why didn't I go and get a practical job that I could do anywhere in the world.

I can do podcasting here in Newcastle, But if I wanted a big job like I had before.

That's only available in Sydney and maybe maybe occasionally Melbourne.

Well you'd have to be commuting, right, Yeah, you could have it in Newcastle, but then you'd have to commute at least three days a week.

And it's not that's not a quality of life.

I don't.

That's the kind of thing.

And it's you know, growing up at Mum and Meer, I saw a lot of women come in and out and parent on the side and try and do it all.

And what I realized, and what my mental hollyween Right has kind of instilled in me, is that you can have it all, but just not at once, right like or kind of watching that happen and play out.

And this sounds so awful because those women are amazing, but it made me realize what I did want and what I didn't want.

I realized that I wanted to be around for my kids, and I wanted to be a bit more flexi, and I wanted to be present like my parents were for me.

And I just didn't see that as an option.

And I'm sure it could have been.

I'm sure had I really worked hard, it probably could have been.

But I also knew at the level I was operating on what was expected of me, and I knew that it had a like if I wanted to parent that same way, I wouldn't be able to do both well at all.

And there's something to be said about recognizing that.

Yeah, I definitely, before I suppose really knew what a mother was, I chose motherhood over my career for this portion of my life, and I've just made my career kind of work around it.

Do you know how refreshing it is to hear that, though, because I think that so many people we speak to just in our everyday Sydney busy lives, it's that people have kids and we try to both Key and I as well.

We sort of just make them fit in to our life and what we are sort of wanting to do.

I would kind of argue that you guys have kind of did that as well, though, because you, like kel, when you went freelancing, like that was right before you had land, Right, Yeah.

No, you're right, And I think that because I don't know what the next five ten years for me holds, and part of me is definitely not a freelancer.

I love the camaraderie in the Oh.

God, I miss the office.

I miss having colleagues I miss Yeah, I miss having a job, and I miss that normal paycheck.

I miss that so much.

And a routine.

Yeah.

So I'm not saying that that won't be in my future, but I definitely agree that I have sort of designed and I've had the privilege to design a life that works so I can be here for Lenny and sort of work my schedule around him.

But I still think that sometimes I definitely choose work or sort of put work before motherhood.

So it's just really refreshing to hear people say that.

They're like, no, no, that's my priority right now.

Yeah, I say that now, like I will also probably sometimes send Phoebe to day care when I shouldn't because I have something important to do.

Lies please.

I sent Lenny once just because he was irritating me.

Oh mate, like most of the time, right they todd us.

Like it was a Friday, I didn't even have work to do.

I just simply couldn't be bothered.

And I was like, you're really annoying me.

Your village you're allowed to do exactly is my village?

Like get to day care?

Little bustards I think it is really cool though, that you I echo what Curl said that it is really cool that you are saying that, because that's how I feel too.

But sometimes it feels like you're i don't know, betraying a woman admitting to it or.

Something, betraying everything that we were kind of raised upon, especially like as like young feminists.

But I also figured, like it's it's a season, like exactly, yes, I'm going to have a full time yob again.

I'm going to have big ambitions again.

I'm probably going to want to be a principal one day.

Like I know that about me.

It's just if for these what four or five years I'm studying, I'm bringing what I can in income wise to contribute to the household, but I am prioritizing being around a bit more and a bit more flexible.

And that's really what it is.

It's that flexibility of what we all do designing our own life and being in charge of our own schedules, opposed to having to show up at an office eight am till five point thirty pm and be answerable on messages like that's what I'm doing.

And I wrattle with that all the time because of my identity.

But Tim and I remind myself that this is like four or five years.

It's the hardest.

And they're only little for such a small amount of time, aren't they Like it's and the thing abouild in the scheme of things see about.

Being a primary care is that like you're doing that anyway.

So people that have to work like a nine to five and are still parenting that they're still navigating all of that while having a job, but kind of setting up our world this way, like they both come with their challenges, but it's just that you're taking the benefit of one over the other.

Like, yeah, I'm eating tuna and rice every day to spend more time with my kid.

Yes, that is what Key does.

Just I do it too.

Tuna and rice.

Well yeah, yeah, I actually think I got the recipe from Key, But yeah, I do it too.

What would you say has been the most rewarding part of this whole huge life upheaval.

As someone who's a bit of a creature of habit, I am just always in awe of people that really do just go fuck this, I want something different and just make a big change.

I think it is like the smallest of details for me.

So it's city in our backyard, the fact that we have a backyard with grass, watching Phoebe and our dog Reggie play with sticks.

So Phoebe's trying to give Reggie a stick, Reggie's taking the stick out of a hand.

They're running around, they're picking up sticks together.

It's that moments like that that bring me pure joy and make me think this is all worth it.

Because if we were in Sydney, we'd be in a rental with no backyard.

I would be coming home from work picking her up from daycare at six o'clock at night.

Everyone would be hungry and stressed.

The dog wouldn't have been walked like I just can't imagine my life like that.

I am so glad that we have this life where it's a bit slower and it's more on our time.

I've spoken about that before when I go up to visit my parents or I'm like, I watch Len running around to the backyard with so much space and picking fresh fruits, and I romanticize it in my mind, and I know that it would actually be their reality a lot of the time.

But there is just something so beautiful about a slower life, especially when they're so young.

Yeah, and it's just it's just time, right, It's just it's the fact that it takes us fifteen minutes to get anywhere here, whether that's the beach, the lake, the shopping center, daycare drop off, like, I don't know, it's it's slowly, it's it's starting to feel like home, which is really nice.

And the longer you're therefore, it will yeah, the more it will, like the more you grow that village.

And would you say that that is the hardest part.

Yeah, away from people.

One hundred it has been losing my closest girlfriends and seeing them from like once a week to literally maybe twice a year.

Oh twice, my god, it's not that far.

No, it's not that far.

But everyone's busy.

It's sometimes impossible to schedule in a phone call with.

It, and then you're paying phone tag and then it's like being four weeks and you're like, oh, why the hell.

Was I Yeah.

I actually ended up just ringing my dear friend Laura Brodnick on the weekend because it had been months since I'd spoken to her, and she was free, and we chatted for forty minutes and it was heaven and I was like, oh, isn't that.

It is so nice because if they're not free, they won't pick up.

So just give someone a try, because you never know your damn phone.

You might catch them when they're doing some groceries or they're going for a drive or whatnot, and they have some time because and twenty minutes is better than nothing.

It doesn't have to be a catch up on everything that the last six months has been.

I think that's a really good reminder it can just be.

Because I was talking to Laura about that a couple of months ago.

We were saying how hard it is sometimes when you haven't spoken or seen a friend for a while, because you almost feel a bit anxious prior because you're trying to think of like, oh my god, we've just got so much to catch up on.

And I actually don't feel like I've been doing that much, Like I just go to work and I just do this, and that's it.

But you don't need to fill them in on every minute detail.

You just need to call them for.

A chat one hundred percent.

And I would say that's what I'm getting a bit nervous about this, this kind of this next baby coming along, is I've gotten to a point where you know, we've got our routine.

Phoebe's in daycare three days a week.

I do my freelance work, my kind of business stuff where I talk to people.

On those three days, I've got meetings, I've got semi kind of colleagues, I get to have input on things, and then when that all goes away, I'm like, oh, what will I have again?

And that's what I'm a bit nervous about.

I kind of don't want that feeling of loneliness to creep back in, especially because Tim runs a pub here in Newcastle, so he does odd hours and you know, doesn't really have a weekend off necessarily.

So I'm hoping that, like the village will come eventually, and I thought the village would come with daycare, but what I've realized is the village probably doesn't come till all, right, because day gets hard.

Or preschool I think is going to be four next year.

And this is so funny.

Charlie just had a conversation with one of the dads of the fathers that I think at daycare, and he's got a kid in the room above and he was like, things really start, like the social scene really starts to fire up room because what happens is they kind of go from playing like next to each other from like forming little groups.

And he was talking about how his son's in like the wolf pack with these like four other guys and they just do everything together and then yeah, the birthdays start, the invitations start, and they actually form those friendships.

So I think it will come.

I think it's the same as anything like those friendships that you're talking about lives that you built up at work, Like think about how often you were seeing those people to build.

Those friendships exactly.

It's just having more time, more exposure and different things like that and putting yourself out there, which is like all the things that you're willing to do and have been doing.

That's such a good point.

And I was saying to my brother recently actually about because when I first Key and I met originally when we both worked at Chopo.

On my first day at Shopo, I remember crying at my desk because I was thinking about all of my friends at my old job together doing whatever we did at that time in the afternoon, and I just felt really lonely and like everyone was over there having fun without me because I hadn't made friends yet.

Yeah, and now I've still got my friends from that workplace, and I've now got beautiful friends from show po.

Like guess, working together just sort of speeds things up, because.

Yeah, when you've got like common interests and common enemies and you know everyone knows similar things.

You're bonded for life.

You are when you work with people, you are literally bonded for life because you could see each other sixt years later and still.

Be like, ah, remember.

Remember that time we did a pop culture podcast that was pretty funny.

All right, recommendations if you got anything for me key recess.

I do, but you should go first.

We had my niece's birthday party two weeks ago now, and I want to recommend where my sister had it.

I didn't even know that such a place existed.

It was called Spoil Me Kid's Day Spar.

It was in Sutherland, so in the Shire, and it was basically a day spar for little kid's key that is so cute and all of them had the best time.

They all get little baby robes.

When they arrive, they lock the door so that you can just drop your kids.

You know, your kids aren't going anywhere basically, and they did pedicures, they did mannies, and like proper mannies, they had foot spars, braiding, glitter on the face, beating stations, coloring in dance parties, party food, they even did the lollibags, so everything was included.

I asked missus to how much it was and she said it was eight hundred dollars for I think that was about fifteen kids, which I thought was, Oh, my goodness, that's so much money.

But then she pointed out that that included absolutely everything, so she didn't have to worry about anything.

That's so cool, because yeah, I went to one of those all inclusive birthday party things and it was at one of those trampoline bounce places, and it was so cool because everything was included.

And I think that when you when they get a lot bigger five five, turning six, those places are perfect for the big parties and to keep them entertained but also low touch.

It's genius, that's the thing.

Because I mean, I haven't done a birthday party for Len like a proper one before, but I know that you have said that Rue's birthday parties, you've thrown her, You've gotten away with doing it.

For under five hundred dollars, but you've put in so much work, like having to do the shopping and the So I think that these places, there's a lot to say about the fact that you literally just book it and then just turn up.

Yeah, and they do like school holiday activity, so you don't just have to book it for about their parties, which I just thought was really cool.

And she also said that Lenny was the best behaved there and that he had the best matters.

Oh my god, that's so good.

Go law.

Was it because he was terrified of his mother shouting at him across the room?

Please?

Potentially, but you know what a wins win.

Anyway, what's your recommendation?

Sounds like I haven't prepared for the episode at all because I've said peak pit sleep training and guess what my recommendation is going to be?

The Mothercraft nurse.

Can we just establish you and not sponsored by the Mother Cross.

It's not sponsored.

I'm a happily paying customer.

I think that Mothercraft nurses aren't known by everyone, their services aren't known by everyone.

Just popped into Google.

But they are midwives, they're Tresillian trained for sleeping.

They're really knowledgeable and breastfeeding as well, and they will help you with anything that you need for your kids, and they'll give you a guide or a plan and they'll tailor that to the needs of your kid, and that's often much more affordab than other options as well.

And they just have a wealth of experience.

So we were talking about this because obviously Lisi mentioned in her interview that she used one for breastfeeding Phoebe that they just have seen it all, so they know that there are many ways in which to train a baby or to help a baby along their little journey of whatever they might be struggling with.

And they have a really soft approach and it's not scary or judge.

It's just they're just in your corner.

So, and I've heard this from many people who have used this specific service.

I just think it's kind of it's very much the ethos of the mothercraft nurse, and I just think that they're a great resource to get around.

So that's super helpful.

Oh good one.

Cue, all right, I guess it's time to say goodbye.

Goodbye, Kiri cells.

You're hoping that this is your last episode for quite some time, So should you say a skid autle.

Oh for a couple of months.

Yes, we've been working hard behind the scenes to find one or two hosts that might be able to come your ear drums, particle your ear drums, and we're pretty close.

So if this is my final episode, fairly well.

If it is not, well, see you next week.

See you next week.

Bye bye,