We acknowledged the traditional custodians of the land.

We're recording on today.

Hello, and welcome back to Eat Sleep Repeat.

I'm Kiri Cels and yes I'm still here you.

I'm Kellen mccharen and not for long.

We are very excited to announce that as of next week, Key is taking that very well deserved two month break and we've got your co host situation sorted.

Lies.

Who you heard on the pod last week is going to jump on with me for a few episodes, and you'll meet your primary new co host next week.

We're teasing it.

We're so naughty, aren't we we are.

I've told her to come.

With the goods.

Oh she's gonna come.

Yeah, yeah, I think she will.

On the show today.

I have just spent the last seven days sleep training my six month old.

How did I go?

Well, I'm going to tell you all about it, but not right now, because we've got to do peak and Pit first.

And a little note on peak and Pit.

This is the last peak Pit that you will hear for a while because of the recording schedule over the next couple of months.

It's just gonna be not topical.

Then it's not personal.

If it's something that happened two months ago anyway.

And also I just feel like some things need to remain sacred with the ogs.

Okay, so I get it.

No, it's baby the peak and pit, so it will come back when she comes back.

Yeah, turned to shit kick it off this week?

What is your pit?

Oh, it's been one of those just when it rains at falls times.

Yeah.

And then like just.

To top it all off, someone stole my card to buy really ugly clothes and it just that irritated me.

Was this the Amazon thing?

No, I still haven't sorted that out.

That's our business account, so it doesn't concern me as much as my personal account.

So Lenny has got influenza, and the poor bloke, I have not seen him this miserable and unwell since he had hamfoot in mouth over two years ago.

Wow.

It's just not a fun time at our house at the moment, and I'm doing everything within my power to not get it.

So I've been masking it up at home.

I've been taking all my bull and his herbs.

But yeah, he's just a miserable little thing.

And the doctor gave us have you ever been given a script for tummy flu?

I haven't, but I've heard of it, but I myself have never taken it.

Gave him the first dose of antivirals.

He vomited for ninety minutes.

Oh my god, he was so sick.

And then I was googling it and it's so harsh on their tummies, it's harsh on anyone's body.

I stopped it, and he's already getting a lot better on his own, just through rest, fluids, etc.

Anyway, so that's just miserable.

It's very hard to work at home.

And then Percy's got another ULSA.

He's got an autoimmune disease we've found out, just a shit and it's on his other leg.

I don't really want to talk about it that much.

Because I'm sorry, that's really shit.

There's not that many options we're waiting to hear from a specialist.

But it's also like I don't know how much more I want to put him through personally, like for him.

So yeah, it's just been a bit shit this week.

Things are a little bit shit.

Listen.

I don't have much of a peek, but I definitely feel very grateful and happy that work is pretty much back on track and the next few months are sorted and we've got lots of exciting things planned.

Who you'll meet next week is an absolute little gun like cracking can and I up with her.

Keene banis like, bless her.

She was just going to do it for the vibes and we were like, no, no, it's a paid gig.

We will be paying you.

You're not working for freebabe.

We're not about that life.

So things are just like on the workfront, everything is pretty smooth sailing, which is really great.

And I'm very excited for Key to have such a well deserved break and then you know, force her to come back all guns blazing next year, well in December, but then properly next year.

Yeah, exactly exactly.

What about you?

Ah, so my hit it's a little bit of like.

Oh, it's a humble it's a bit of a yeah, it's.

Like a humble brag.

Exactly what you're gonna say, all like a oh whoa with me?

Yeah, it must be nice.

Well, it's really annoying because at the moment I'm packing up our apartment because we bought her whoo ah after nine months of going to fucking opens every Saturday.

Being on real estate dot Com domain, every bloody Tuesday and Thursday when the new stock came on, getting a buyer's agent going to fucking things and stupid investors.

Going to an auction with high hopes and then and investor just swoops in and offers five hundred thousand dollars off the back.

Yeah, it was getting a bit bleak.

And obviously everyone on the pod knows I have been very suffocated in our apartment and I just needed something to change.

And we're currently house sitting, which has been lovely, and then we've been successful now and getting our very cute little house that I'm so excited for.

So it's just so fun.

Like I've been on Pinterest with like ideas and I'm just like excited to put some holes in the wall and not convince Charlie that it's okay because he's like, we can't do anything to the apartment because it's not ours.

And I'm always like, babe, babe, babe, come on general wear and tear.

But this time where I'm going to be able to knock what we're not going to, But we could knock down a wall if we wanted to.

You know, what if you want to paint a wall pink, because why the hell not paint a pink Exactly.

It's just going to be lovely and it's just going to be really nice to put down roots.

And I just said to Charlie, like, how sick is that this is going to be where we're living for the next five plus years?

Like good for me too, because I was a little bit worried you guys were just going to end up throwing your hands up in there and going, fuck this, We're going back to Brisbane.

Well it was close.

We're kind of like, should we go back?

No, we can't.

We've got too much going on here.

And we do love our lives in Sydney.

It's just Sydney wasn't loving us back, but it's loving us again.

So we're back.

We've gone a place we're going to be moving soonish, and yeah, it's just brought us a lot of joy.

I'm so excited.

And the packing is painful, but it is such a good opportunity to clear through your staff and oh, I'm sure it's just quite impossible.

There's lots of peaks of the packing, for sure.

I think the reason why it's my pit is because it's actually great.

The scenario at the moment because we're house sitting, I'm able to just go back every day to the apartment and pack by myself, just with Suki, who I'm just putting down for a nap and doing a bit of packing.

When she I mean, she's seven months old.

She doesn't sleep as much as used to, not that she ever slept, but like independently, it'd still be quite hard.

Well, it's actually not.

She's sleeping so much more than she ever has before.

So for me, I feel like I can actually get stuff done, Like it's just different.

Anyway, We're gonna get to that later.

We don't spoil it.

That's coming up in the episode, but I think what the pit of it about it is is that you get to this point where you're packing and like you feel like you haven't done anything because there's just shit everywhere.

So you've ended up going is spent three hours going through one draw deciding what course you need.

Yeah, I'm looking around and I'm like, there's shit everywhere.

I haven't actually packed another box.

But Charlie pointed out, he was like, we're doing it.

It just looks like it's not because nothing's like organized neatly.

But once that person picks up this we're selling on Facebook, marketplace or once that goes to the council pickup, and you know it's going to be fine.

And we made a list of all the things we're actually keeping, and we're not keeping a lot because what's funny out buying anything that's bigger than the current apartment that you've been living in that was only for two people and now there are four people in your family is that you have to get new things to fit the new space.

And also you can get rid of all the ugly, old, beaten up things.

So we're actually not taking that much stuff with us.

We're selling quite a lot of stuff, so I know that in the end it will be good.

I'm just in the hard bit of oh god, is this ever going to look like I've been successful and doing anything to do with the packing.

I have two things to ask.

Firstly, are you buying a new couch?

We are buying a new couch, Yeah.

Depending where you buy it from.

My sister bought one from Lounge Lovers four and a half months ago and she's still waiting, So just don't get rid of your couch too fast.

Yes, so that's actually we have bought a couch already, but it isn't going to be here till like the end of the year.

Oh, that's insane.

Temple on Webster for the win because you can choose things that are in stock.

I know.

Actually, and I was looking on Temple and Webster just yesterday.

I'm such a big fan.

I'm going to get some stuff off there.

And I'm like, oh, it's stupid to get an interim couch.

So I think we're gonna buy some This is really sad.

We're gonna buy some bean bags.

That's fun.

That's actually fun because then the kids will love them afterwards.

Anyway, you can get them in the girls room exactly.

We're trying not to be too wasteful.

I did actually reach out to the place we're buying it from and I was like, Hey, do you guys lend couches And I'm like, no, that's not a thing.

I'm like, okay, well it should be because your lead times are long and we are a family that needs to sit somewhere.

So I actually my dining room table I just found on temple a website.

I have to send you the link.

It's so cute.

Oh, I can't wait.

To see it and then stop leaves the warehouse in two days.

I'm like, oh, honestly, this his episode is not sponsored by Temple Wester, but it should be.

You really should be.

Because everything arrives so far.

I don't know how big is their warehouse honestly must be like I kia size.

Yeah, I think so doing so well.

There's such a good business.

I just I don't know they've nailed it anyway, Temple and Wembster hit us up if you would like to sponsor a podcast because we organically love you.

My peak obviously the house, but I think just to make it a little bit different.

Call and I were just talking off Mike and she was talking about her rec center where she signed up for Nettie and blah blah blah, and I just was like, how good are rec centers?

Because now we know where we're living, We've signed Row up to her swimming lessons because I'm like, fuck, this girl is three, someone's just around the corner and she hasn't been in swimming lessons all year because it's impossible where we live, there are limited swimming schools like the places it's really hard to get your kids into.

Basically but because we're moving to the suburbs, we have our own little rec center and it's so sick.

So, you know, the past couple of weekends we've been going there for her swimming lesson and it's just been so nice to like be in the community with the people.

And you like to swim too, right, Oh, I love swimming.

That's such a good question point.

I lived in the area that Key's moving to for quite a while, so it was my local as well, and that's where I used to do my laps for not way oh my god.

Yeah, yes, I really.

Want to get back into swimming actually, So that's such a good point.

I can do that.

So I don't know, I'm really excited to be in the suburbs.

I feel like everything's much more like community based and they really like put a lot of money and time and energy into things because obviously that's where people with families are living, as opposed to we kind of live now at the beaches, and it's just everything's like quite expensive and there's not that much going on.

Like the one swim school that Rue did go to close down and a hot room and cold plunge bathroom.

Oh, one of those like wellness centers.

Yeah, opened up and it's cost sixty dollars for an hour.

Yes, And I'm just.

Like, okay, so cool.

We need to teach us swim.

But no, the influencers need their ice bucks exactly.

So it's just really nice to be where we're meant to be.

And the stage about life like it's feeling already just from like signing her up and going to a couple of lessons, feeling like a lot easier and like less hard.

And I think I talked about that on the podcast last week, like living in a in our friend's house and just having a bit of extra space, Like I knew it would make a difference, but I didn't realize how much of a difference it would make.

And I'm already feeling that about suburban life, like I'm fully committing to the suburban life and fuck, I'm having a good time already.

Oh I love this so much.

It's a new error.

I'm so excited anyway, exiting the.

Flop error in A big part of the lightness that you can hear in her voice is that don't dun Suki is sleeping not on her, She's.

Not sleeping on me, and that's what we're going to talk about in this episode.

I'm going to take you through my seven days of sleep training.

Let's get into it.

Okay, I'm so excited about this.

I completely understand why some people don't like to sleep train, but I think that that's also because they think of the Ferber method, which is literally just shoving them in a room and then see you.

I am also a huge advocate for sleep training.

So yeah, and I feel like I obviously hit my rock bottom, and everyone who listens to the pod was well aware of that.

I think that I just got to the point where I wasn't really functioning as a person, and every day was really hard.

I could cry at the drop of a hat.

I was just so exhausted, and I got to a point where I felt like I was a bit dangerous, Like I felt really on edge driving around.

I had that incident with them when the person was trying to like use the crosswalk and I was like, I don't know if I meant to stop or go and she's halfway across the road.

Like my brain just wasn't functioning.

And I think as well, when you're in that state, no one can say anything to you.

That is actually helpful because you need to come to that realization yourself.

Like when you message me in the depths of despair.

As an outsider, it's easy for me to look in and say, key, let me help you.

I can see exactly what's wrong, blah blah blah.

But I was in exactly the same state with land nothing that anyone says can help.

You have to figure it out on your own.

Yeah, for sure.

Obviously sleep training is what we're talking about today, and that was a big part of it.

But I do think that it was a combination of me admitting like, hey, I actually can't do it all exactly.

I need to know one can step back from my responsibilities.

And that was the first step.

Even though you know today is my last record for the next two months and it's taken a few weeks for us to get to this point.

It was the weight of admitting it, admitting to feed vulnerable as well as saying, hey, I'm not.

Just struggling, I'm drowning.

Yeah, so I think that was definitely the first step, right, and then from there it was like for me, that really put a fire underneath me, and that like, hey, if I'm quitting the things that bring me personal happiness as like a person who isn't a mum like me, as just a human being.

Then I need to like actually fix the root of the issue that's going on here, or the root of problem, which is the fact that we are not sleeping.

Suki isn't sleeping, I'm not sleeping.

So that's when I pretty much got onto Google and I was just looking at different resources, and I remembered.

Can you just backtrack a little bit for anyone that might not remember, because even I don't remember.

Actually all new listeners, Rue was you didn't have to sleep train her.

She was a good sleeper.

I did sleep train her.

But the thing was is like I did a sleep guide that a friend of mine passed on to me.

It was super easy and she responded to it straight away.

My sleep training it was just a routine basically, and it was you know, it's not dissimilar to what I've done this time around.

But the thing is is like they are different babies, so there were key things that are different and will still be different in their sleep habits as Suki grows up and Rue does too.

But with Rue, it was like I could do anything with her she would sleep for like three hours and then need another app.

Never forget the time she slept for like eighteen hours in Europe.

Oh my god, I know when we were traveling, which was That's the thing with her.

She was always really like she'd just roll with the punches with her sleep.

Like I remember Beck, friend of the pod, my mother's group bestie.

She had a really hard time with Goldie.

We were doing exactly the same sleep guide, and I saw how Goldie was very low sleep needs, so she just didn't want a lot of sleep, And I saw how much she struggled.

But I could pretty much do anything with Rue.

Of course, there were I would have to, you know, anything developmental, any milestones, any illness would require a more like you know, be rocking her for long or whatever.

But I was always like, oh sleep training, Yeah, this is fine, like easy.

But I wasn't unaware of how much of a unicorn she was.

Like I had always spoken to you about it because I had you struggling with lens sleep.

I saw how hard it was for Beck, and I knew that I wasn't struggling as much.

But it wasn't down to anything that I was doing.

It was just the type of baby she was and her temperament.

And what I realized is like when I first did sleep training with Rue, you have one kid, you have all the time in the world, and you have a lot of patience.

Well I had a lot of patience because I wasn't working.

It was my first baby.

Everything was new, and I was really excited to do it.

But this time around, I didn't have patience.

So for me, like, I couldn't even really handle her crying, Like I didn't like her to cry, and I just wanted to immediately pacify her.

The easiest way to do that was the boob.

So I think I created like a few I don't you never want to say like habits, but they became habits.

So when I started my Google journey, remembered Mothercraft.

Googled that Mothercraft for Babies came up, which is a lady called Beth Barclay runs it, who is amazing, but I'll get into more of that later.

So basically, Beth runs a team of Trisillian and Karatana trained nursing professionals, so they do in home consultations and guidance.

They also do video stuff, so they work predominantly in Sydney, so I think lies use the same company, but then they speak to mothers across Australia, which is really cool.

So how they work is hey, fill up this form and then you can have a free fifteen minute consultation.

I was like, cool, this seems like a good first step.

I'm filling out the form.

It's like really straightforward.

You know, when was your baby born?

Were there any issues?

How did your delivery go?

Are there any siblings in the house?

How many times, Overnard are you waking up?

And I don't think i'd really been thinking about it, but that day it was eleven times that I had woken up over the night.

How did you even track that?

On my sleep half?

You were still doing an app?

Yeah?

I had to do an app because I was like, what is going on?

Like how much am I waking up?

Like I needed to know.

I hadn't really been doing it that much, but because I was like I need to understand how bad this is, I tracked it and it was like eleven times And it wasn't like I was up forever, but I was waking up, putting her on the boob, settling her so bad.

So I'm typing this in and I'm like, this is not good anyway.

Yeah, surely this is not normal.

No, it's not.

And so I send that off and I think that was a Friday.

I got an email like half an hour later from Beth herself being like, hey, I'm going to call you on Monday for your consultation.

I was like, how cool that fifteen minute consultation.

I think I said this in my peak a few weeks back, when I said I've hired a mothercraft nurse.

She said this is not good.

We've got to do something about this.

And I think that how a professional saying to me, hey, this is not good.

It did something to my psyche like it made me think like.

Oh, it's not me, like I'm not going crazy.

I also was a bit of mum energy that I felt like I also needed.

I think the first time around with Rue dead was with us then, so I did have her energy and her help, Charlie's mum, charlie'smum sorry at home.

We spent a lot of time with them when Ru was little and all of those things.

But this time around, I have felt maybe a bit more raw and like that I do need some mothering and I think that Beth's whole just who she is is like a professional, but also like she's a twin mom, Like she gets it and I think she understands like that mother's in this state, that she's contacted, they need mothering.

And I felt that instantly from my.

Coll No one's contacting her.

Who's thriving, right.

No, Yeah, she's seeing she's seen mother's at their rock bottom.

But the energy that I was met with was just so calming and reassuring, and I was like on a high afterwards.

Like Charlie was there like listening.

He was working from home that day listening to our combo, and he was just like, oh, you're smiling, like I'm seeing the benefit.

And then she said the price of it.

She's outlined three packages.

She's like, hey, there's a three day package.

You've got a toddler, So I recommend doing it over the phone, just because you don't need another person in your space.

You're already navigating a toddler and a baby.

It's too much for you.

But she's like, there's a three day, a seven day, and a ten day.

I think based on what Suoki needs, that we do the seven day.

If you're happy with that, and I was like, yeah, yeah, that's fine, five hundred and fifty dollars.

And Charlie, when we got off the phone, said hey, can you just make sure that she wasn't meaning like fifteen hundred dollars or something like.

To pay five hundred dollars to sleep again.

That's great, It's not an exorbitant amount of money, but I would have paid any money.

Basically, I paid three grand to sleep train and no regrets.

It was the best money I've ever spent.

Exactly, no one regrets it.

I also felt a bit relieved because you know I'm not working, well, I am working, but you know, my own business.

We know we're trying to buy.

Not making a shit ton of money if you will.

And also no guarantees that it's gonna work, right, I mean I had high hopes, but anyway, she's told me the cost.

We've locked it in.

And this is the biggest thing about it, right, is that she said you need consistency, And I said, hey, I'm throwing Charlie a surprise party.

We've got his family coming into town, like that's going to be a bit of a dicey weekend.

And then we had our hotel stay the following weekend, and she was like, look, if you've got family in town, you're gonna want to see them.

The routine's going to be shot.

We need consistency, so I don't recommend it.

I would say the same about the week after.

So I actually pushed it to two weeks.

I was worried because I'd come off this high of being like, we're gonna do this, then looked at my schedule and went, shit, if I really want this to work, like I really need to commit to yeah, and not just kind of like just so hum it exactly like I didn't want to leave the end of the seven days and been like I could have done more.

So what I decided to do in that two weeks was to really commit to the sleep training that i'd done to rue and do that with Suki.

I followed the program.

It was like a half an hour sleep in the morning from like nine till nine thirty, up for two and a half hours, pretty normal awake window, and then down for two hours from like you know, twelve thirty to two thirty and then bed by like seven and then adding in solid So by this stage she was six months.

I had finally committed to doing solids and starting that and that was like solids three times a day.

So immediately within starting that little program that I had my hands on, and that's just kind of like a standard one that you could google and get right for age appropriate, I saw an immediate change in her day sleep So I went from contact napping to her sleeping in the side sleeper and her pretty much nailing those naps.

So that was a huge change.

And that was such a win.

Yeah, I saw an immediate improvement in her day sleeps, which was amazing, Like I didn't know myself after just having my arms free for or like half an hour and then a couple hours.

It was just amazing just even seeing that change.

But overnight, I mean, I think I did one night where I was like, Okay, I'm not gonna constantly feed her overnight, and I put up a reel about that, and she was up for three hours doing what was she screen or Yeah, she was crying like she wanted my boob, and I was like, no, I'm not going to do that because I know you're not hungry and it's just a habit that we're formed and it sucks.

I'm not going to leave you to cry.

I'm here with you.

And so basically I was doing it in kind of like ten minute increments.

So what I was doing is, you know, putting her in the cot and patting her, patting her balm or her belly whatever, and shushing her because I realized that she liked me shushing rather than white noise.

So that's kind of what we've stuck to.

And I would do that for ten minutes, and then after ten minutes, if she was still really upset, I'd pick her up and I'd cuddle her and pat her and try and get her down.

And that would work during the day, you know, when I first started following my guide that I was doing, but at night it was just the complete opposite.

Like she was so fixated on having me to settle.

And we lasted one night of sleep training overnight after being awake for three hours.

Oh you just to like get my tit into your mouth.

I don't care.

Oh yeah.

The next night it came to time, like, you know, she woke up at ten, I fed, then she woke up at twelve and I was like, I'm just gonna feed you to sleep because I can't.

I can't do what we did last night, like Charlie and I wish were broken, and it's like, you know, they're just so upset and crying, and all she wanted was you're a monster.

And it's like, I know you're not hungry.

I know you're not hungry, and you don't have a wet nappy.

You're completely fine.

You just won't take a fucking dummy.

You won't take a bottle.

We were just like, we're not gonna do that.

So at the end of that two weeks we kind of crawled to the finish line and then we were starting with Beth on the Monday.

And how she works is that she has like a forty five minute phone consult with you on day one, So the Monday of the seven day program, and that was basically, I mean that initial fifteen minute consolet we had turned into forty five minutes.

So we had gotten pretty deep with everything around Suki.

But I had kind of said to her, hey, look, I've been doing this for two weeks.

I fixed the day sleeps and she was saying to me, I think she needs longer in the morning, and I was like waking her up after half an hour from that nine thirty till ten.

And you know what you just tell when you wake a baby up and you're like, oh, I shouldn't have woken her up.

Yeah, immediate regret.

Yeah, like why did I wake a sleeping baby?

They tell you not to do that the way that she kind of treaded so I don't know, respectfully around the work that we're done.

Like as soon as I said to her, it was like, hey, OBVIOUSLYEV had that two weeks.

I couldn't not do anything for the two weeks, So I've done this guide and she is like, this is amazing.

We have come leaps and bounds already, Like I don't know.

It was almost like sometimes if you're speaking to a professional and you're like, hey, I've done some of your job, they can be a bit prickly.

Yeah, I agree.

And the way that she did it was like it was just so constraintive, and that was really the theme of the whole process.

It was like us coming together.

It wasn't like a you need to do this, this is what you know, this is how you'll be successful.

So that was a really good starting point.

So I think coming having already fixed half of it meant that we could really focus on getting the night sleeps done, and kind of what came out of that appointment was like, hey, I think she for her age.

I think she needs one and a half hours in the morning and one and a half hours in the afternoon.

I was like, okay, cool, So still three hours of sleep during the day, just similar to the other guide I was doing, but just broken up differently, and then a bit of a bridging nap in the afternoon.

So I was like, okay, oh, so is this where the a little fifteen minute kip comes in.

Well a bit of a half an hour.

What Beth said would be good was like, if everything runs smoothly, you know, baby, we'll be about up at six six thirty in the morning awake windows to this age is about two and a half hours, and then you want to have your first nap.

It can be anywhere between eight thirty nine and nine thirty.

This has been the hardest nap for us to nail because when you've got a toddler, you're doing daycare drop off.

So, my god, that's probably our biggest failure across the seven day sleep training was like trying to get home in the time.

Her falling asleep in the car, me like trying with all my might to get to the park to take her on a walk for the first hour and a half nap, her falling asleep, you know, while I'm parking the car, and then being up that whole time.

So it is so stressful.

It was really stressful.

But what was really good about it was that she just said, whatever happens, just go with it.

Look for your cues, so your cues and form everything.

So it was like, Okay, if you fudge up that nap, anything is good.

Right If she falls asleep at eight thirty and you were getting home by nine, Okay, so she's been asleep for twenty minutes or whatever, half an hour, have her up for half an hour, and then her back down when she's showing signs of being tied again.

So previously, like, had I not kind of spoken to Beth about that, I would have gone home, woken her up, tried to transfer her, spent you know, an hour and this happened.

Spent an hour trying to get.

Her down because I'm trying to straded.

Yeah, getting really frustrated because I'm trying to stick to the schedule.

But she was like the schedules there to inform what we're doing is evidence based, and the evidence is how your baby is acting.

So if she's just had a powern app in the car, the timing that you're going by the guide is out the window, right, we need to just kind of get the sleep in where we can.

And that was really eye opening for me because I think with all guides, I even with Rue, I was really like a stickler for the timing, you know, like a good little student, trying to make sure that you're getting in upse at the right time.

And Beth kept saying, this life happens, so you've got to be able to roll with it.

And we're not saying that you need to be at home twenty four seven to make this work, because that's just not what life is, especially if you've got a toddler, Like you've got to do stuff.

So she's just like, just try and get that nap in the best you can at the beginning of the day, or that solid sleep, and then what you really need to work on is making sure you get that second nap, so being where you need to be for that one.

If you can't get that first nap, like if daycare drop off isn't allowing for that to happen.

And that's kind of where we succeeded.

Moran was the second nap.

You know, I'd make sure that wherever we were, we were there for the afternoon.

I'm just thinking back in you sort of dictated.

I mean, I didn't care because after Lenny finally started sleeping independently, I was just stoked.

But now that he doesn't have to napp, or he's happy just to fall asleep in the car for a little powern app or whatever, it's just quite liberating not to have to be at home at different times.

Oh one hundred percent.

One hundred percent.

But it's so important for them.

It's so important when you're teaching them how to sleep.

Unless you have a rue that will just sleep anyway exactly.

And I was one of those people who was like, not outwardly judgy, but when in my head who was like, hey, I've got to go home, We've got to do our nap.

You're like, just do the nap in the pram, go with it.

It's fine, totally fine, just do a carryer nap rah rah rah.

And it's like, yeah, no, like you as a mum, no your kid, trust me.

I don't want to be at home when I could be.

Out exactly Exactly what was interesting is like, well, every day I would do this kind of sleep blog and the next day I would send it to Beth and she'd kind of come back with her observations, which was really good.

She kind of just gave me permission to not do things that I thought I should do.

Like when I sent her through the first thing, I was like, I read her a book, and it meant that I put her down a bit later and it took a while to pat her to sleep, and she's like, get rid of the book.

You don't need to read to her.

She needs to sleep, so don't worry about giving the book.

Fuck the book.

Fuck the book.

Basically fucked the book, right.

And then the other thing was like that first night we were up, she would do pretty good.

She got a big stretch of sleep from like ten to two.

But at four am, I realized that she might be constipated because she's obviously started the solids, and so I started doing tummy massages, you know, at four am.

Beth saw that in the notes and she was like, hey, yeah, don't worry about doing the massages at four am.

Let's just try and go back into the cot.

Why don't we just reduce the amount of solids that we're giving her in the daytime And I was like, yeah, that sounds probably like a better plan.

Yeah, it's not like she's not gaining weight exactly exactly.

Also, the other thing I wanted to point out was like in the conversation with Beth that I was having about the current sleeping situation, like Souki was still in the side sleeper and she's like, is there a cot?

And I'm like, yeah, we do have a cot.

She's like, would you put her in it?

And I'm like, it's actually in a different room because we're house sitting at the moment, and their kids about six months older than Suki.

She's like, would you put her in it?

And I was like, yeah, I don't mind.

Like, I'll give it a go and see if it works.

And it's crazy saying this out, like because it's like, yeah, no fucking shit, putting her in a cot when she's six months made a difference.

But I think obviously having Beth there to kind of support me through it, I was like, Okay, well I'm gonna try this and maybe it will make a difference, and it did like she just had more room to move around.

And what I noticed was that in the second or third night of settling her at night, Suki would roll onto her side and then roll up onto all fours and just kind of start her wind down sequence, which is what I've really identified it as now and what she does every night when I put her down, So I actually stop patting and I just let her wriggle around, and then she backs up her little bottom into the corner and like lays down, puts her arms out, and then she kind of like she'll grab my hand, or if I'm like still patting the mattress, she'll like grab my hand to be like, hey, don't pat, don't pat, and then she'll let go of my hand, and then I'll pat bit more and then she'll be like, don't pat, don't pat, and then we'll kind of just hold hands and she'll drift off to sleep.

But you feel so caught in this routine or the spiral of no sleep and things like that, that you can't even identify things like that that they're doing.

I couldn't imagine giving myself the space to see her winding down and to be able to give her the space of that.

Like I said to Beth, she's up on all fours like and the night so like I picked her up, like I actually picked her up to try and and she's like, no, no, no, don't pick her up at all.

Unless she's really like actually distressed, then you can pick her up.

But the goal here is that we wanted to be like sleeping independently and self soothing.

You've got to give her the space to be able to do that.

So, I mean, it was exactly and I just feel hindsight and obviously looking back at all of this stuff, it's because on the third night Kel she slept.

Through, like actually slept through.

Yeah.

But I was just like, in shure, did you feel like a new person?

Yeah, I mean I felt like, wow, okay, this is actually gonna work.

I knew not every night she was gonna sleep through, like I didn't.

She didn't sleep through once, and I was like, oh, amazing, she's cured.

Like I was realistic about it, but I was also reassured that she can sleep for long stretches and it's not impossible and we will get there.

Whereas before there was not a world that I lived and where I could imagine sleep training her and that it would work and that she would be able to do it, because it just felt like she was so reliant on me, such an emotional baby, so sensitive.

But in reality, it wasn't that she was emotional and sensitive.

It was that I was broken and scared and just not in a good place mentally to be able to cope with her learning like being in like learning how to sleep.

And I do think that it's important to note that that the expectation or the goal with the sleep training is not to get your baby to sleep through the night, because that is a ridiculous expectation, given that most grown ups don't frite through the night, and that they do like babies, do need to be sued.

They do get hungry or thirsty, just like grown up So it's just to get them to be able to sleep independently, to be able to get to sleep, for stretchers to sink their sleep cycles, and to self settle to a certain degree.

Like Lenny, after sleep training, still woke twice a night till about eighteen months, where he wanted a bottle, but that was fine because.

He was hungry.

He was a big boy, he still is and it's not forever.

And I was getting those stretches in between.

Exactly, and it makes a difference having like solid three to four hours of sleep.

Like that's the thing in the plan that I have plan is that I wake up, you know, around ten for the feed, and that she will wake up again, you know, two, three, four for a second feed overnight, like and that is pretty much what she has done ever since.

Like she had that one night where she slept through, but now I'll feed.

Her at ten, the dream feed as they call.

It, the dream feed.

But also like, and this was scary because we had cut down solids, which work, she became more regular.

I was now doing a poop you know, every morning or sometimes twice, like one overnight and one in the morning that because she was having probably her biggest solids feed before bed, and then I would breastfeed and put her down that when she woke up at ten.

There were a couple of nights where I was like, I just think that she's actually too full, Like I don't actually think I need to feed.

But even wanting to talk about this, I was like, I'm very superstitious, Like I feel like I'm such an unlucky person that I have to be really careful about the time in which I talk about things.

And I was really worried about being like, I think she's two full, I don't want to breastfeed.

But in my head I was like, no, no, no, you should breasfeed it because you want her to sleep.

But I went like, well, I am looking at the evidence in front of me, you know.

Like she has not hungry.

I don't think she's hungry.

I think she just wanted to resettle.

So I sent Charlie up instead so that the milk smell me the cow wouldn't be in the room.

We resettled her and then she didn't wake up till four and that was she actually needed to feed then, And that was the other thing about the impact of sleep training has had on my supply is insane.

So you know, I worked really hard at breastfeeding this time around, and she just because she snacked all the time, my body just wasn't getting the correct signals about how much milk I should be making.

It actually wasn't giving my body time for my boobs to fill up again.

And since we've found like a routine and a rhythm, I'm now having my letdown is now much more rhythmic, and it's like in routine, I know when it's coming.

I know that when she's feeding, I can actually feel myself letting down, and she's getting better feeds and getting past like that really light milk.

Yeah to the nice, full fat stuff.

Yeah.

So it's just there's been so many benefits of it, but it's also been really empowering for me to like not be scared to rely on my instincts.

And I think that the second time around, I had a lot of feelings of failing and I felt like I didn't have any instincts when I had Rue, I felt like being a mum for me was really instinctive.

I got motherhood and everything came really easily with Suki, I felt like I don't know.

I just felt like at a loss, like I didn't know how to do anything.

Nothing could work, Like I didn't know what to do.

I was failing.

And I think that the sleep training allowed me to like feel that power in my instincts and be able to actually rely on what I would seeing, getting to actually know my baby, like I felt like I didn't maybe I didn't even really understand her because she didn't have the room to be herself yet.

And that's probably like an age thing as well, and all of that until it probably sounds a bit woo, I don't know, but I felt like we've kind of really come together and been able to understand each other a bit more, and I've given her the space that she needs.

I'm like, guys, I'm doing bedtime well, bath time like food time, bath time by myself.

I remember breaking down to Beck and being like, I just do not know how people do it with two kids, Like how do they do bed and bath time or like feed bed bath, Like I just don't understand, And I don't know.

In a week, that's how far I've come.

Like I'm so proud of both you yeah and Suki.

Yeah, thank you.

I really am too.

I can't believe how much she's changed over that seven days.

She still cries, obviously, can you hear it now, she's a baby.

Just how stoked Beth was when we finished and everything, and she said that Suki graduated with honors.

Yeah you did, Suki girl.

I wasn't sure how it would go, and I don't think that this is how it would go for everyone.

I think every baby's different.

Suki had definitely her struggles and it's only been you know, ten days, so anything could happen.

But I feel like there's a really good foundation there and that I know that she's capable of sleeping.

I am not a ship mum.

It's gonna be okay, And it just means that, like I can take these next two months off, really get her into a good place and finish you home.

Yeah, things are really looking up Mealhouse.

They are, and like, I think the biggest thing for me is just making sure that anyone who's struggling would sleep with their kid knows that it is possible.

And it's like crazy because as the second time mom, I feel like you think you should know what to do and have it all together and like you've done it before so it should be easy.

But you've never been a mum to this baby.

That's exactly.

All babies are so different and sometimes you just need that help.

And when I had my wrap up call with Beth about it all, I was just saying to her, like, you know, I knew a lot obviously about it about sleeping, bow it like having someone there to coach you through and to see the things that you are too busy, overwhelmed, exhausted to see is where that is so helpful And just to be able to speak to someone who's like seen every kind of baby and what they respond to.

And the tweaks that we did were like so small.

If you look at what we did over the seven days, it's like increased her morning nap, cut back on her solids, moved her to a cot like this is not like rocket science, right.

But small things.

But having someone holding your hand and.

Helping and giving you feedback and saying, hey, maybe we can do X, y Z or just give her the space to do that.

That's completely fine.

That's how they wind down, Like I don't know, there's something so invaluable about having someone in your corner just to let you know that you're doing a good job.

You're doing it and it's gonna get better.

So anyone who's struggling, it is possible.

Even though I said to Kelly it wasn't to sleep train your baby, and I highly recommend it because I now feel like I want to get up every day and that my life isn't completely overwhelming and that I'm not a shit person.

I was just struggling, really badly at one stage, and now I'm seeing the light.

It is now time for recommendations.

I'm going to rest this voice and let you kick them off.

Kel What have you got this week?

Well, I feel like I'm sure about my recommendation because I flip and hate this chick.

But okay, there's a new Cormera and Strike book out, which is the Robert Gailebreith's He's I think there's eight in the Cormor and Strike crime detective novels.

But Robert Gailbraith is a pseudonym that JK.

Rowling uses.

Oh okay, I did not know this.

And she's a flop of a person, isn't she.

Yeah.

When she released the first book, she released it under the pseudonym because she wanted to see if she could be a standalone author without the JK.

Rowling like Harry Potter fame.

Interesting, Okay, they're so good.

They're just like Harry Potter in terms of detailed worlds.

So it's not a fantasy world.

It's London, but with the characters and the I mean, these books are so thick or if you're listening to them, they're about thirty five hours or something and saying like they're huge novels, but it's just because of the amount of detail she puts into everything, and anyway, they're just amazing crime books.

So I've been really enjoying the latest one, even though she's a flop of a person.

And my other recommendation is I'll pop some in a link in the show notes that I recommend, but just an overnight mask for your skin when you can't be bothered doing your skincare, because an overnight mask pretty much does everything in one and your face.

You will wake up and go, WHOA, damn, I look good.

So just to use when you're feeling too lazy, or really tired, or just can't be bothered for whatever reason it is.

You just pop one of these on before bed and it's like you've done a full face of skincare.

That's a really good tip.

I love that, and I'm interested to see what one you recommend mine.

I have two this week a little bit.

I only you have none or one, and I'm always scrambling.

So my first recommendation is for parents who have kids with unruly hair.

Ruth's hair gets so naughty and she hates me brushing it, and she always goes to school with the wildest hair, and I just feel like that's a reflection of me, because you know someone's gonna be like, wholl her hair's crazy.

But I finally you see, like other people drop off their little girls and they've got like perfect little braids down there.

I know, And I'm like, it's not like Frog.

I'm like, are you guys strapping your kids down to do their hair?

Because I can't like they're bribing them, the.

Kids eating a Fredo frog for breakfast.

I reckon, you know, I'd honestly be open to it if she'd let me do it.

But something that's made it easier is me doing a bit of role play.

I'm actually so when I wanted to do her hair, I said, oh, hey, do you Reckon.

You can go get the hair stuff and I'm gonna open up Sylvia's salon and she thinks it's like hilarious.

So she comes and sits in front, and I'm Sylvia and I'm like, so, how's school going, babe?

What's an accent or a voice?

Yeah?

Yeah, yeah, I make it like really funny.

I heard you've started swimming.

I was speaking of Goldie the other day.

She came in to get her hair done.

She mentioned that you guys are doing swimming, and so she just thinks it's like hilarious.

But what's all so made it really good is the twiddle curl and hydrate detangler spray.

So I went into hairhouse warehouse the other day to get my Moroccan oil curl cream another reco if you have curly hair, and I was just tapping to pay and I said, actually, do you have any kids products, any ttangling spray?

And they're like, yeah, yeah, We've got this twitdle stuff.

It flies off the shelves and I was like, all right, cool, twenty four dollars.

I was like, that's pretty reasonable for a big bottle.

Took it home and oh my god, it's magic.

I was like, what what happened when we were kids?

Because the t tangles we were using when we were little worked.

Did they take all of the chemicals out or something?

Because everything tctanglar that I have tried FARU has just it's been just a bit of a flop.

I'm like, I need something to actually detangle.

Anyway, it's been amazing and she now loves hanging out at Sylvia's saloon getting her hair done.

There are no tears, Everyone's happy.

My second reco for this week is in the theme of today's sleep training.

The other thing that we purchased was we needed another white noise machine because ruined suki are still in separate beds at the moment.

So I purchased a newdy white noise machine.

Now this is apparently Australia's number one sleep machine.

They've just come up with a new version of it, which is now kind of like one that is a clock and it does this like daylight rising whatever, about one hundred and twenty or one hundred and thirty dollars depending on what one you get.

You control it on an app.

Now look full disclosure.

Here Beck had this.

She took it on holiday with us, and I was rousing on her because I was like, why do you have a white noise machine that is controlled by an app and you can like dim the lights, brighten the lights, do all these different sounds.

And yet I am just eating my own words because it is actually amazing.

You control it all with the app, so you can put the shushing on to start with and then switch it to white noise.

You can do different lights so we do a red light because everyone says that's really good, and I found that it makes me really sleepy a red light, sleeping with the red light, so I've done that for Suki this time around.

But it's just fantastic.

I think last time we just had the dream egg, which was on the go, which was great for Rue because again she was super easy.

This one has like a few more of like the bells and whistles, and we really liked it.

And the other reason why we went with the sunrise alarm is it has that setting on there when you're trying to make your kids stay in bed when they get up at five thirty am in the morning and it's like you can't get up because the light's still blue or whatever.

So we got that in preparation for when the girls inevitably try to pull the wool over our eyes and make us get up earlier.

So yeah, I highly recommend for people who are looking for something that is a bit techy and has lots of features.

It's been fantastic so far.

Oh that's so good.

You can also this just reminded me.

I don't know if I've ever said this on the pop before.

You can put a setting on your phone so that you tap the side three times.

You know how you tap it twice?

Nice to pay for something?

Yes, like you open your wallet.

You can put a setting onto your tappet three times and the phone goes into red light mode.

Ah, yeah, so you could.

That's what I've got so I can be on my phone if I'm laying with Lenny, but it's not distracting him more.

That's clever.

Okay, I did not know that they had red light on the phone.

That would be awesome.

Yeah, it's just a little hack city bitch from frack City hack hack City bitch bitch.

Great note to leave on.

I just wanted to say she does thank you so much for all of your support and lovely messages while I've been navigating this time with Suki, and that I can't wait to have a bit of rest and come back and fully commit again to the show and make it great and wonderful.

And I know that it's in very safe hands.

I'm excited to be a listener and give some notes.

No, I'm just kidding.

Oh, she sends like detailed feedback every week.

Yeah, hi, guys, here's the feedback that you didn't ask for.

Here is some constructive criticism.

I'm a bystander anyway.

This podcast was produced by us Keery Cells and Kelly Mcarwen, with audio production by the Lovely Mattie Joannu Bye Bye