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On this episode of Going Underground, we speak to Prof. Anatol Lieven, Director of the Eurasia Program at the Quincy Institute. He discusses why European countries have been so hostile towards direct negotiations with Russia and why the Ukraine proxy war must keep going, the idea of NATO nations contributing to a ‘reassurance force’ in Ukraine, the failed policy of excluding Russia from European security and giving Eastern European NATO members a veto on European security affairs, European leaders grovelling before Trump as a consequence of outsourcing their own security to Washington, European countries’ refusal to see Russia’s point of views and compromise for decades, why a European peacekeeping force may actually encourage Ukraine to escalate against Russia, and much more.