Worlds Collide is a podcast about moving abroad

>> Viktoria: Welcome to a new episode of Worlds Collide, the podcast about moving abroad. And I am your host, Viktoria. I, almost said I'm your guest. No, I'm your host. Today's episode is about Eden, and she moved from m Israel to Germany. And so I had immediate questions why she chose Germany out of all. All of the places, because of the history and. Yeah, so we talk about that for sure. And also, she has a relocation agency that helps people to relocate to Germany, and she gives so many great insights. So, if you're interested of moving to Germany, listen up. Here are so many great informations about it, and definitely find all the info to it in the show notes.

Eden: Thank you for inviting me. I'm doing well

>> Viktoria: All right.

>> Viktoria: I don't want to take away too much. Here is Eden.

>> Viktoria: Hi, Eden. How are you?

>> Eden: Hi. I'm doing well. Thank you for inviting me.

>> Viktoria: Yeah, no, thanks for being here. I'm, thrilled to have you, because this is.

You relocated from Israel to Germany in 2017

So, let's start before I take anything away. Sorry, because I have so many questions already. So tell me, where are you from originally?

>> Eden: I'm from Israel originally. I was born in Jerusalem. I've been a bit in the north of Israel, but originally from, like, from Jerusalem.

>> Viktoria: Okay, and where are you now?

>> Eden: I'm in Leipzig, Germany. So, yeah. very different.

>> Viktoria: Very different. Okay. So, how long have you been in Leipzig?

>> Eden: I relocated in 2017. November. So it's roughly six and a half years.

>> Viktoria: Okay. And what brought you there?

>> Eden: That's a good question. Different, factors. So, first of all, it's important to note that I'm dual citizen. I have also romanian citizen citizenship.

>> Viktoria: So you already had the european connection there.

>> Eden: So I. Yeah, I mean, I didn't have it at the time, which made things more complicated. but I was in the process already, so that was like, okay, now that we know, Romania is something that I can use. So, it was my husband and I, we had a whole process of, okay, we want to relocate. Let's decide on where. And then it was like a whole elimination process. So we started in, like, EU, and then it was like, okay, this country. No, because, this country, no, because kind of like, those main factors. Okay. It's important also to mention that we decided we want to move from Israel because of several factors. One of them is economic. It's very expensive to live there. The other one is religious wise, because we are not religion, and, religious, and is a very religious country, politically, also, we didn't agree with what happens. And, yeah, like, the situation that goes there in safety issues. I think now it's even more clear. But also, then it was also right. It was always an issue. It was always an issue. And so we were kind of like, okay, we were looking for a better life. That's where the process started.

So when we eliminated, like, all the countries that we landed on, Germany

And then back to the elimination process. So when we eliminated, like, all the countries that we landed on, Germany, quite frankly, I always had Germany in mind. So it was a bit of, like, my. My secret wish that he will also figure this out.

>> Viktoria: Okay.

>> Eden: and then in Germany, we kind of went around. We came to Munich with the Stuttgart, to Tubingen. So it's like, we saw some cities, and, we really interviewed a lot of people. Like, we spoke with so many people just to ask all the questions.

>> Viktoria: Who did you ask? Just random people.

>> Eden: Oh, no. we didn't stop people on the street, if that's what you're asking. We planned the whole thing. We have actually, I met someone who did, like, student exchange with my high school. So he. He helped us a lot. He even gave us his apartment. He was, like, super nice. We thought, okay, are all Germans like this nice? And so, yeah, so we were at his apartment. He showed us around. He really, we had so many questions prepared, and he was like, sure, fire on. Like, he was happy to help. And we also had another student exchange, like, other student who was, there. And we asked her also some questions and also some Israelis who lived in Germany. So, like, from different perspectives. So we were kind of like, fine, we are locked in on Germany. Now we need to find the city again. We started the whole process, but that was actually really a coincidence when it comes to, discovering Leipzig and really putting that as our goal, because we started learning German, we said, okay, we understand Germany is the goal. So we said, okay, now we are going to learn German. So we had, like, a teacher, and we used everything possible, like YouTube, all the apps and so on. And then we stumbled upon this video on YouTube from, ah, a guy who is teaching German, and he had this video of, why do people move to Leipzig? Kind m of video, right? And then he gave all kinds of facts about Leipzig that were really resonating with us. Like, it's a music city. It's very young, it's still cheap. It's like, it's developing all those kind of. It has a lot of sun. It has a lot of sun. It was so important. Yeah, there's a lot of nature, there are lakes and so on. So it's like, okay, check, check, check, check. Okay. Seems like a good city.

>> Viktoria: Yeah, it's super hip. Right? Because I know, so popular in the last.

>> Eden: Okay. Now it's even way more popular than.

>> Viktoria: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

>> Eden: sure.

>> Viktoria: Yes.

>> Eden: Yeah.

>> Viktoria: I don't know, it's like the it cd kinda.

>> Eden: yeah, it's. They are called Heipzig. So it's like a bit of like. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I heard that before. Like, the. The new Berlin are kind of. Yeah. So there are a lot of, like, names about this, I might, I must say. Like, we decided on Leipzig also, like, really interviewed so many people. Like, went on all those Facebook groups of, Israelis and Leipzig and expats and Leipzig and so on, and just like, asked so many questions. And then we were kind of satisfied. We said, okay, we decided to come here. We didn't see the city before relocating, so.

>> Viktoria: You didn't.

>> Eden: No, no. We were kind of like, okay, if that doesn't work for us, then at least from Germany, it will be easier to find something else.

>> Viktoria: Ah.

>> Eden: Ah.

>> Viktoria: Okay.

>> Eden: So that was kind of the decision. And we just did it and we never left. So it seemed like it was successful.

>> Viktoria: So you just, like, found an apartment online and then you moved in? Or, like, how was that then?

>> Eden: Yeah, I was online. we did ask for, like, a tour, like a virtual tour. They gave us, everything. It was fine. and then, like, the guy who. We did, like, a sublet, and then the guy who was giving us a sublet, he was in Portugal at this time, so he was really fine for us doing everything that we needed in his apartment for, like, two months, and his brother gave us the keys. So, like, everything kind of worked out. it wasn't. It wasn't that easy because we did have several apartments that kind of, you know, dropped out in the middle. we were supposed to go there and then, like, oh, this is a problem here. Oh, there's a problem there. But then, like, we, we found that one and was like, fine, let's go with that one.

>> Viktoria: I mean, subletting, such a great idea. I would not even think of that.

>> Eden: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

>> Viktoria: But I remember, like, when I was a student, and I went for a semester abroad, or when I did, like, a longer internship somewhere else.

You came prepared with a plan to learn German and then look for jobs

I also, like, subletted my. My room.

>> Eden: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, it is important because we had this whole plan that we needed to register with the apartment, with the address, and we couldn't have done this with an airbnb, for example. So we also aimed for sublets that would give us this option. So, yeah, we were very prepared.

>> Viktoria: And then, did you. Okay, and then you, did you start looking for work or.

>> Eden: no, we came, we saved, some money. We really came prepared with that as well. We said, okay, because I didn't have the citizenship yet, then we had to be on a visa. And a visa that we took was, ah, a very short term. It was like one year, and out of this one year you can only work for six months. So we said, okay, we're going to come there, we're going to start learning German. We will focus on learning German with like those, intensive, schools. And then after that we are going to start looking for jobs. And we didn't have a plan into this looking for a job situation. It was more like, we will learn the language and then we figure it out. And that's what we did, kind of, yeah.

You came to Germany in November and were shocked by how quiet everything is

>> Viktoria: Ah, all right, good. And what strike you when you got there, like culturally, what was like super different for you in the beginning?

>> Eden: first, it is like the beginning shock. First of all, we came in November. We were like, oh, maybe that wasn't a good idea coming from a warm country directly in November. It's like all gray. And then it started snowing. At some point you're like, what's happening?

>> Victoria: Yeah.

>> Eden: and also, like, the language also strikes you? Yes, we did learn some language, some of the language. When we came there, we were not like, fluent. But then it's like, oh my God, everything's in German. It was like really striking. but we were very shocked, first of all, with how quiet everything was. Right. We are in the middle of the city and it's quiet. And in Israel it's like you can hear people yelling at each other from afar, and you can hear noises of the cars and everybody like horns and stuff like that. You going from this to being super quiet, even in the middle of the street also. Yeah. Also something that was really striking was the attitude and how people react to you, because especially those who have the understanding of what German sounds like from movies, it sounds very harsh and very bass voiced, or kind of like that. And then you hear the greeting and they're like, hello. It's so hype. Who are like, juicy, like the goodbye stuff like that. And, and you don't expect that, okay.

>> Viktoria: Because it's all of a sudden it sounds so nice.

>> Eden: Yeah, you don't expect that at all. Okay, so, that was kind of interesting.

>> Viktoria: And, so does the, the accent in Leipzig is really strong and does, oh, yeah, does did you have, like, problems with that in the beginning or, like, still?

>> Eden: Yeah, I mean, when I started working, I started working as, a delivery woman for letters. And the people who were working there were not, like, some of them were very old, and they had a very heavy saxonian accent. There was one guy I could not for the life of me understand what he says. It was so difficult. I had to really put my, like, 100% of the energy that I had to understand what he's saying. Luckily, I didn't see him that often because we would be, like, sorting our mail and then just off we go. But it was very hard. And now the place where I live is a bit, like, less international and more, like, very local kind of, people who live there and there, I hear a lot more of this, like, heavy accent. Maybe not that heavy, but it's still, like. It's very noticeable. But now I notice that I understand a lot more. It's still difficult. So difficult. But it's like, hey, I understood that. It's like the whole happiness that comes with it.

>> Viktoria: Yeah. But, you know, it's so funny because, I mean, to the listener who does not know that accent, but I think in Germany, it's considered the most unattractive, the most hated. Yeah.

>> Eden: yes. Although. Although people here, they're kind of like. But did you hear the people in Bayan? You know, I also see this.

>> Viktoria: Like, it's also all right up there.

>> Eden: Really? So it's come from the perspective, but, yeah, for sure, it's one of the most hated, dialects and accents that you have in Germany.

>> Viktoria: Congratulations that you master it now.

>> Eden: Well, mastering is, like, a whole different, but understanding.

>> Viktoria: Okay.

>> Eden: I wouldn't go that far. Yes.

How do people react when you tell them you're from Israel

>> Viktoria: Okay, so I want to ask you this, because that was my first thought when I saw your post. so how do people react when you tell them that you're from Israel?

>> Eden: So I would say before the war, I had no problem. There was really zero problems. And. No, because it's not a given, especially for Israelis, that you say, hey, I'm Israeli outside, and nobody cares. especially in Leipzig, it's really coexisting. They couldn't care less. Especially, like, people from Turkey. Sorry. Like, people that, Israelis would consider, maybe hostile. Sometimes they were like, you're our neighbors. You understand us better than Germans. Like, this is our food. This is, like, our culture is very similar. And so I cannot say that I had any problems so far. very, like, physical, for sure. The only problem I had is people who, came to me with, like, I would do x with you only if you say that you are anti genocide or blah, blah, blah. So it's kind of like they came with kind of an attitude of, I think I know better what's happening. I, need you to be on my side and then, like, we can continue from there. And that was kind of an attitude I was not expecting, to be honest. I mean, it's kind of affecting.

>> Viktoria: Everybody says that to you, really, because.

>> Eden: You'Re like, you either. It's not a, black and white. Like, everything is not black and white. every war is not black and white. So it's kind of like a, you have zero clue on what's happening for real, and b, you are kind of. You pick the side, and if I'm not, like, in your idea of what's happening and what should happen, then I am, like, deleted from your side. So it's a kind of person, in the beginning, I probably wouldn't want to work with or do something with, but it was. It was a bit of a shocking to me. Like, I would imagine people would just ignore me or just decide not to work with me or decide to, I don't know, like, you know, for themselves, be like, okay, she's Israeli. I might just unfriend her or, not work with her or something, but that's. That was very direct approach to me. So it's kind of weird.

>> Viktoria: I was more thinking of if anybody in Germany gets like, oh, I don't know, because of the history, more, ah, like, hey, I. Do you, Why are you here? Don't you feel, don't you hate them all because of the Holocaust?

>> Eden: And, you know, that actually comes more from Israelis than from Germans, to be honest. Because I think Germans are actually more happy that. That I'm there, in a sense.

>> Viktoria: Yeah.

>> Eden: because it's. I don't know, it's my theory that they're kind of like, okay, so we are not that hated anymore, or, okay, we can move on from this kind of. I did have kind of an odd situation that caught me also off guard. there is this church in Leipzig that they are doing the march of life, and it's kind of like the march where they set up. They not celebrate, but they, they picked the day of, the Holocaust day in Israel to kind of do a march of life, which is the opposite of the march of death.

>> Viktoria: Which was like, okay, so to, like, celebrate, celebrate. Now, that's the wrong word, but yeah.

>> Eden: Exactly. To honor it, to kind of mention, it in a way that is also bringing hope. And they are really. They took upon themselves to really also celebrate, like, the jewish life that's also existing in Leipzig and parts of Germany and also other parts of the world. And so I came there because of me being very active as an Israeli in Leipzig, like also, with the Israelis in Leipzig. So and I came there, I spoke with the priest, and he then decided to tell me, like, the whole story of his family. And also part of what they do there is they collect the stories of people who, decided to explore the history of the family, of what did they do during the second world War? What was the contribution of their grandparents, the second world War? And it was like a whole project. And he told me about this because I was really interested. And then he said he put, he put himself to, like, he wanted to put upon himself this mission to find his jewish friends and to ask for forgiveness for the Holocaust for, like, from everyone. And he told me, like, hey, I'm sorry for them. Like, I didn't know what to do.

>> Viktoria: How old was he? I mean, he was not that old that he was 1560.

>> Eden: But no, he no, he was not part of it like his grandpa was. He, heard from stories and from what he explored. But he's still feeling responsible for that somehow, and so. But, he's feeling responsible for, like, the whole of Germany, kind of. He's really, like the messenger here somehow. I, found it, like, charming. But also I. At that point, I didn't know what to do.

>> Viktoria: I know. I mean, it's like, wow. It's a lot what you take on yourself.

>> Eden: For real. Yeah. I mean, I also I did not experience any of it, obviously. And I have somewhat of a tiny story in my family that is related. Like, the romanian side somehow has some knowledge, but I didn't hear almost any of it. So I couldn't know really what's, behind this, really. I couldn't. I didn't feel this deep problem in me because of that.

>> Victoria: So, like, when you picked Germany, that was not even on your mind?

>> Edin: It couldn't have not been on my mind because when I told people in Israel that I'm going to Germany, obviously these kinds of responses are coming, right? Like, you can, you would hear, like, what are you thinking about? Why Germany? And it's like, you know, but I came with the thought of, we are not in 1941. How about we move on? Like, I think if we. If we stay stuck, then you're missing out on so many opportunities that, yeah, it's a shame to miss. And I've seen, I see here how many are like, they never joke about the Holocaust. They're like, no, it's a serious matter. And like, hey, we have responsibility. It's like, I see also the efforts that are being done for, this, material to be taught and to be passed on constantly.

What do you miss about Israel about Germany, though? The food

So it's like, I feel very safe here, to be honest.

>> Victoria: Yeah, okay. That was, that was like my, my first.

>> Edin: Your concern?

>> Victoria: Yes. I'm also german, you know, so, so I was like, okay, so I don't know. I don't think I know any Israeli in Germany.

>> Edin: I mean, where do you live?

>> Victoria: I mean, I live now in Austin, Texas. But, my family is still, like, in the Dortmund area.

>> Edin: M okay, there are some, but I think they weren't there for a long time, so.

>> Victoria: So I.

>> Edin: But Berlin is infested.

>> Victoria: Oh, yeah. I mean, Berlin, yeah, but the big city is always,

>> Edin: Yeah, but Berlin is kind of like the hub of Israel.

>> Victoria: Okay. Oh, really? I did not know that. What did you, what do you miss, though?

>> Edin: The food. Huh? the food? The sun. Like, yes, we do have some sun, but it's not the same. And also the beach, because, yes, lakes are very nice, very charming, but it's not the sea, it's not the beach. like, if you're in Texas, you're for sure understand. I mean, also from, from the housing perspective, like in Israel, for example, you'll find way more like open floor, like open kitchen, and open living room. And then, like, the whole hosting is different because people are sitting in the living room, or like on the, on the, dining room. And then, like, you cook still and you're talking, it's a whole conversation going. The smells are bringing people in, and you have maybe a big balcony that you can do barbecue in, and you can also sit down, like in the sun and so on. So it's like, it's something that I got used to. And then I came to Germany, and then every room has a door, some of the hallways have doors, and, like, it was constant doors everywhere. And the, at least in Leipzig, most of the balconies are kind of like, in addition to the apartments. And so they are mostly, mostly very small additions, because everybody needs to have the same one. And it's like they made something happen just so every, so a lot of people have a balcony, but it's like, compared to Israel, it's super small.

>> Victoria: It fits a chair.

>> Edin: Two chairs. Yeah, like the hanging, rag for you to hang. To hang, the clothes to dry. ours fits really like that, that hanger and that's it. some have bigger. Yeah.

>> Victoria: So in Israel, it's like more welcoming. Like, I'm just thinking of, like, if it comes to, like, having, like, friends over and like, or family making them something food, or preparing some food, and it's like a whole deal. And in Germany, it's like, you sit down, you're being served.

>> Edin: I mean, the whole culture around food and hosting is different. Yeah. Like, our typical Friday, evening meal is gonna be made of many different salads, many different toppings, many different, you know, type of meat. So it's like, it's a whole table filled with food where it's like when I have friends over that are Germans and they see this kind of thing, they're like, what's happening? it's like the kind of thing that makes you feel whole and like, hey, there's like a big table sitting. They're all talking, they're all like having fun. And it's a whole thing around food. And so we take it very seriously. The spices are different, you know, the flavors are different. yeah, I mean, every time, every time I tell people I'm from Israel, people are like, oh, hummus.

>> Victoria: We love hummus.

>> Edin: And I'm like, yes.

>> Victoria: More than just hummus, absolutely.

>> Edin: But it's like, hey, good start.

>> Victoria: but, okay, so I wonder, because, so what do you do with the leftovers?

>> Edin: Well, a lot of it is basically being spread to the friends and family sometimes. So it's like, okay, what do you take? What do you take? It could be that or like, you have it for the next day. The thing is that, most, ah, of the traditions come from, like, the religion. And also that's why Friday evening is like the, the traditional day or the evening. And then Saturday is normally like a resting day. So just like in Germany, there would be like, it's Saturday, that it would be like, without, restaurants and without, shopping and shops and stuff like that. It's even more to the extreme in Israel because, there's no public transportation, nothing is open. So it's like, really everything is shut down. And so those who are very religious are also not cooking because they cannot use fire or they cannot use electricity. So basically, the leftovers are used, most likely also in the day after. So. Okay. All right.

>> Victoria: So just don't waste any food. I just wanted to make sure.

>> Edin: Yeah, it's not going. It's going. In the stomachs, and people are just like sitting, opening a button, and then it comes dessert, and then you're like, oh, no.

>> Victoria: Yeah. And,

So what do you like though? What do you really like about Germany

So what do you like though? What do you really like?

>> Edin: So I think the silence part, or like, the quietness part is really something that was very important for me. So also, I come from Jerusalem, it's a big city, and Leipzig is quite small. and the nature part of Leipzig is, like, so important and so amazing. The fact that I can take a tram and, like, in 30 minutes get to like a, ah, huge lake that I could swim in, I could take a boat on, I can have a barbecue on. And it's like, there's so many things that were like, there's so much nature that if you miss nature, you have it. If there's a good weather, like today, for example, you would take a walk and you get into a park, which, which then you forget there is a city around this park, actually. So it's like those kind of, like, distinctions could be very helpful, mentally. And also, what I like, obviously, is, like, the economic part that was like, all the parts that made me leave Israel, and how they treat religion like nobody cares. Like, if you say, hey, I'm an atheist, they're like, sure, fine, good for you. And people could be like, hey, I'm Christian, but they're like, sure, fine, good for you. It's like they don't care. And, it's amazing. And that's how you should live. Like, hey, a lot of the things that a lot of people do care about that I find nonsense. Like, do, gay men or gay women, can they get married and can they adopt? They're like, sure, go ahead. So it's like all those kind of, aspects that are really important, for me, are very much here. and also, I think the mentality of work, also, it's a bit different. Like, united, states is very similar to Israel in regards to hostile, ah, mentality. Or like, hey, nine to five is even, like short time. You actually work more sometimes. M And some bosses are feeling super fine to send you an email at 09:00 p.m. or like, it's Saturday. On Sunday in Germany, it's kind of like, no, we shut down everything. Friday afternoon is like our downtime until Monday morning. Don't even try to speak to us. I'm happy with this kind of a mentality. I have more, but it's like, yeah, like, a lot of it.

You mentioned earlier that you are very active in the israeli community

>> Victoria: And you just mentioned earlier that you are very active in the israeli community. how did that come? How did you start that?

>> Edin: That was actually quite like another accident, because I joined the group on Facebook, because I have decided that I want to learn a lot more about flagsik. And so I was very active because I'm just in general, an active person. And then I started to host to say, like, hey, who wants to meet? Let's get to know each other, la la kind of stuff. And then the admin of this group, he said, hey, I don't live in Leipzig. Would you like to take, the role of an admin here? And so I was like, sure. So, and then I started to be kind of a bit more active, even. And I thought, maybe I can lift something, like, in the community. It didn't really work out, but I still have, I'm still in touch with a lot of Israelis and Leipzig. So I would say I'm somewhat involved in the community more than others.

>> Victoria: And is this also how you started your relocation agency?

>> Edin: Well, obviously my relocation story helped a lot in that, in the sense of, like, I had to collect all the information myself. I did all this job, and I really went through all over the Internet, all the Facebook groups, all the websites exist to collect all the, knowledge and information. And so I was just like, hey, I have all this knowledge. It's there. And I found during COVID that I just do it for free, because I'm in all those groups anyway, and people are just asking questions, and I'm like, you know what? I hate writing. How about we go on phone calls? And I just, with random people, would go on phone calls for hours, 2 hours, to just then tell them everything that I know. And I saw, oh, I really love it. How about I make it my profession?

>> Victoria: Uh-huh.

>> Edin: And so I then decided to join this, like, program for female entrepreneurs in Leipzig. And they helped me kind of, to get into the point where I started the business. But it's really coming from me loving to talk, as you can see, sharing.

>> Victoria: My knowledge, and to have somebody like that on a podcast, I can come every day.

>> Edin: I'm super happy. And so really, this, this part of my personality, and also the fact that I really love helping people. And, being an expat in Germany is something that I feel really proud of, and I think that it can very, like, Germany can benefit from being more international. So I think this is, like, a win win in that situation.

Ovada Ofek helps people relocate to Germany

>> Victoria: Okay. And so you do this now, full time?

>> Edin: yeah, I do that full time. Like, I started a year and a half ago. so somewhat of like one year, I'm doing it like full time.

>> Victoria: Okay, tell me, what is it called?

>> Edin: It's called Ovada Ofek. ofek in Hebrew is horizon of e k. And it also used to be my last name before I got married. That's kind of like, that's my husband's idea. He's very good at that. He's the creative person, so that's really helpful. Yeah. So we are helping people from all over the world with their relocation process to Germany. starting from preparing before coming and finding an apartment and doing the whole bureaucracy, part visa prep. yeah. Finding schools for the children. Yeah.

>> Victoria: Oh, wow, interesting. And you just do this for the Leipzig area or.

>> Edin: No, for all over Germany.

>> Victoria: Okay. I will put this in, the show notes, the information, and so hopefully people will find you through there. Yes, absolutely.

Finding friends should be on your to do list when moving to a new city

I also wonder, I always ask this, everyone, so how did you make friends? How did you meet people?

>> Edin: It's a wonderful question because this is also part of the things that I tell all my clients. This should be on your to do list. Yeah. Like you have the, hey, I registered the city hall, I find electricity, I find a sim card and I find an apartment. Finding friends, this is also part of it, and should be part of it. So for me it's quite easy. but I can tell I will divide it to two, things, because I go for extroverts and introverts. Okay. Because, extroverts, you don't need a lot to find friends. You're like, you're out there, you start talking and somebody's just gonna join the conversation. But it's just like finding those, expat events that all big cities have, even Leipzig have, although, has, although it's not the biggest city, but like some, a lot of things are happening. we also create these kinds of events because we know it's important. So like we have like a picnic, expec. Picnic or. Yeah, all kinds of other events that could be just Christmas, market stroll, could be really fun. So it's really that. Also for expats, for extroverts, I really think that it's helpful to go into those, Facebook groups and just say, hey, I'm new in the city, how about we meet for coffee or for beer or for whatever, and then whoever replies, you just go, with introverts, it's a bit more difficult sometimes. you first need to really put this as a goal, because introverts can really just find their own corner and stay there for most time. So it is really important from the beginning to go a bit outside of the comfort zone and to, you know, find one person you can trust. And then when you have one person that you like and you can, the vibe is good then to go with that person to smaller events, right? So that person maybe goes to meet other friends, and then you go with that person. And that's how you create those connections, by just, you know, being plus one with someone. But as long as it's not big events, right. It's like 20 people. It's too many. It's too many. It's too overwhelming. It's something that you're like, you shut down and you become like a, stone. Like, so people, four people, five people. I wouldn't go more than that. Just so that there is a conversation, you part of it, you're kind of being forced to be put into the position that you're talking. Then it's a different story. So kind of these are the two approaches I would go for.

>> Victoria: Okay, and how did you do it?

>> Edin: I'm an extrovert, so I'm like, yay, I'm here. I'm here in the city. How, about we just, like, get to get to this coffee place? Or how about you tell me which is the best pub? And we would go there and meet, and I would be in, like, so many of those events. And I was happy, especially because, like, in the winter, you kind of have to. To force yourself out. So when you find those events, it's better you, ah, breathe some air, you know?

>> Victoria: Yeah.

>> Edin: so for me, it was very easy. And then, like, I stick into one person, and that person takes me to that person and that person to that person. And it's like, those connections are really. Yeah. Are happening.

The best approach is first to start with expats and then to meet german friends

>> Victoria: So I wonder, is your husband also super extroverted?

>> Edin: Super. No.

>> Victoria: No, he's, like, introverted.

>> Edin: That's why I know. Yeah.

>> Victoria: okay.

>> Edin: Yeah, I need to put him sometimes, like, hey, when did you left the house? Like, hey, just go out.

>> Victoria: So, like, he just sticks to you kinda. And you show him, like, your people. But do you know more, expats or do you also have a german friends?

>> Edin: So that's actually something that I've learned, like, along the way, that the best approach would be first to start with expats and then to meet their german friends. that's kind of like the situation. Because with germans, it's sometimes very hard. And I think you know what I mean, because, like, you have a whole spectrum between being an acquaintance and to be, like, an actual friend. And when you're an actual friend, you, like, friend for life. You're like, the one to call to when something happens, and you're like, you give everything. So. But this jump between being like, I know you to, you're my friend, it's a huge jump, and there is no in between. So it's kind of like, either I know you or you're my best. So it's like, there's no. So the way to do that for me was to find those expats that have maybe a bit of my mentality, or at least they understand what I'm going through. And it is different because we basically are each other's family here, right? We are not only friends, we have somewhat of the family part of it. And then, you share something that Germans would not know if they haven't experienced that or if they are in their own country, you know, so they feel comfortable. They feel comfortable with the language, they feel comfortable with their family that is there. They have their friends from school, and they have friends from their job or whatever. So it's like, they don't. A lot of them don't put the effort into, like, go and expand their group of friends. So when you are meeting those expat friends, then, and you meet their german friends, you already know that their german friends are more international in vibe and mentality because they're the friends. And then you also know that they most likely speak English as well. And then. So it's helping to bridge this gap of, like, I don't know how to approach Germans. but we did have this goal in mind when we came here. Like, hey, we have to have german friends that didn't work out that easily as we thought. And so that's why I kind of say, yeah, this is the process I.

>> Victoria: Would tell people to use because you said, like, if the other people speak English, that helps. So you usually still communicate in English.

>> Edin: So also because of my business, my clients are speaking English and don't speak German, most likely, that I do. I actually now know more like the bureaucratical German. It's like my. More like the language that I'm using. But, I do have a knack for languages, so it was easier for me. It's not easy at all to learn German, but it was easier for me also to keep it. And so I'm still using it. And because I live in Leipzig, I am still forced to, yeah, use my language more. So, I still have that. I do learn. I do still learn. But I do use three different languages every day. So, like, with my husband, I still speak Hebrew. So it's like, I have some days that I have, like, a language salad in my head. I don't know. So it's like, yeah.

How do you find musicians in Germany without using Facebook or telegram groups

>> Victoria: and I want to ask you about your band. So how did you meet your other band members?

>> Edin: Okay, so just for everybody to note, I also, am a singer in a band. we started a band, with my husband. it was actually like, an idea of, hey, what do we want to do for fun? Like, is there a couple activity? And then he came up with this idea of swing metal, and I was like, I'm interested. We started working on, like, the first song, and we really fell in love with it, and we decided, hey, we're gonna do, a band for sure. So. And then we just started to go into all those groups of, musicians and Leipzig. And there are some websites that you can find musicians in, or telegram groups.

>> Victoria: Is this all like, Facebook mostly?

>> Edin: Okay. I'm still the generation that use a lot of Facebook, but also, like, there's. There are telegram groups. There are like the, I'm sorry. In Germany, you have very old website as well, so, like, you probably know Kleinensen.

>> Victoria: So it's like, for the american listeners, it's like something like Craigslist.

>> Edin: Yes, something like Craigslist. So basically you're posting, hey, I'm selling this. I am looking for this. There are apartments there, there are pets there. So it's like everything. Yes. So it's very old fashioned, how it looks like. I'm sorry. like a lot of other german websites. So it's kind of like you're still going into the old fashioned way. I even see, like, posters around, like, hey, we're looking for, like, a drummer, stuff like that. So they're also still hanged around with, like, the number you can cut. Yeah. So, like, you have still the old fashioned ways and the traditional ways, and you also have, like, those groups and. Yeah, I like being in groups, so I think, those Facebook groups and telegram groups are useful in that situation.

>> Victoria: Oh, okay. I mean, I'm also. I'm not. I don't play any instruments, so I have no idea how to start a band. Not even, like, if you're, like, new there, so.

>> Edin: Yeah, well, my husband is. Has been a musician for a long time, also, like, he started his band at a different band in Israel. So I. He already has some experience there. And he has almost all the equipment necessary because he's also an audio engineer. So we could also, we have our own home studio, so we record all the songs at home. And so he has a lot of knowledge that he brought with him. I brought the knowledge of how to find people.

>> Victoria: Ah.

>> Edin: and we made sure that they all know English.

>> Victoria: Yeah. Okay.

>> Edin: they're all Germans, so we are the only non Germans in our guide. So it's quite cool. Yeah. Now we are performing and we have new songs and like original songs as well that we record and it's really fun. So check out shooby doom. Shooby doom. Yeah, I will show how to write it down like this. Shooby doom.

There are challenges with German bureaucracy, lack of digitalization

>> Victoria: Was there anything though that really was a challenge for you?

>> Edin: Absolutely. So I tell also all my clients, Germany is not a wonderland. There are also a lot of challenges and especially when it comes to use of paper, lack of digitalization and the speed that everything is happening at, happening at. So you probably know, like things here take time. And if you are the kind of person like me who comes from Israel or the United States or places where people, things are like much quicker, and then you have to wait for weeks for something that you're like, if it was somewhere else, I would just get it per email immediately what's happening. So it's like, that's also part of the slower pace that you have to get adjusted to. And also, we always joke about the fact that Germany is really like eco friendly or trying to be eco friendly, but then everything is being cent per post and then why is it still like, you register to an app and you get the confirmation per post.

>> Victoria: But you still have to send it with the mail? You can download it, right?

>> Edin: No, you can download now. You can download, but like you get the, hey, you got the app or you're not registered per post. Like the confirmation comes proposed or you need like to do identification and they send you the code in proposed and you're like, now you have to wait two weeks to open your bank account because they don't, you don't get the code. And it's like, yeah, it's kind of, a lot of those stuff are very weird when it comes to those processes. So they are doing their best to digitalize bit or to make things quicker. but it really is a slow process and it's not a country that would go just like, hey, I have an idea, let's do it. Boom. And then you have it. It's just more like we have, like, a lot of laws that are kind of challenging this whole idea that you just had. How about you don't do that? Yeah.

>> Victoria: So did it affect you with the visa process?

>> Edin: I actually have a very bad experience with that. but not. But, like, not in. In terms of the actual paperwork. Yes, the paperwork was a pain in the ass. You have to fill out a lot of forms in German, which you're like, when we started, we were not super amazing with that, obviously, but, no, we had a different problem with our visa, because I got my romanian citizenship on time to exactly when the visa was ending, and they were supposed to prolong it until I get a passport, because from some reason, the certification for citizenship was not enough. And it doesn't make sense because you're saying, but it is a certification, like, official one from Romania saying, she is a romanian citizen. Like, what do you need? What do you need more for that? But they apparently need a passport. So it's kind of like those laws that are so set in stone, somebody at, one point made them from some unknown reason, and they're going for years and hundreds of years sometimes. The origin of a very weird law is hundreds of years ago when there's, like, no Internet, no computer, no electricity, whatever, and you're like, yeah, it's still a law. Because why would everybody challenge this law?

>> Victoria: So you cannot change the law, right? It's a law. It has to be there forever.

>> Edin: Somebody had a logic behind this. We're not challenging this. There was a point when there was, like, a horse attached to the car. I don't know. so sometimes these are the kind of challenges that you kind of bang your hand. Like, why does that make sense?

>> Victoria: Yeah, it's funny. Like, with everyone I had here on this podcast who moved to Germany, it's like bureaucracy.

>> Edin: Same challenges.

>> Victoria: Right? I, mean, and I also, like, my husband. My husband is also german. And even, like, we don't live there for over a decade, and he still complains how slow they work when it comes to, like, construction sites. You know, on the. It's like you just put, like, a sign that there is a construction site, and then they start working on it ten years later, something like that.

>> Edin: I mean, for us, we have a different problem. Or, I mean, it's also part of the problem when it comes to construction sites. Like, at any given point of time, there are, like, hundreds of construction sites on roads that blocks you from going anywhere. And then you have the autobahn, which can. You can go as fast as you want. But there is always a construction, somewhere that you're like, why is this an autobahn if I cannot go?

>> Victoria: But it's so funny because, you know, like, the german reputation is efficiency, you know, and it's. It's like the opposite. If it comes to bureaucracy.

>> Edin: It's not also, it's like, it's funny that you're mentioning it because we did have a workshop about myths of Germany. like, what does it. People think that Germany is, like, punctual.

>> Victoria: Yeah, okay. But the people are. But nothing else.

>> Edin: Also, that has changed. So that also has changed. There are a lot of, like, people still thinking in, like, the western East Germany. yeah. Prices wise and, like, a lot of. A lot of factors they went in that were kind of like, hey, this is a myth. How about. How about you learn something about this before you come to Germany? So this is something that is also very important for me when I'm talking to clients. It's reality check. Let's do some reality checks. And, like, what do you have as expectations and what actually happens in Germany? So it's like, yeah, it happens as well.

>> Victoria: All right, well, that's good that you tell them upfront. It's not what. It's not what you think it is.

>> Edin: It's important. We don't want to portray Germany as a wonderland. We said that. I said that already. It can be amazing for some people. It cannot fit everybody. Like, every country cannot fit everybody. So you have to know what you're coming into. You have to be with the knowledge, the right knowledge when you do that.

Even in Germany, the use of cash is still too much present

>> Victoria: I have this one more question, but I'm not really sure if you already answered this, but is there anything that you don't get used to?

>> Edin: Yes, somewhat. Yes. So, although it's changing still, I hate using cash. Ah. Like, the use of cash in Germany is still too much present, in my opinion. I even go as, protesting action. I'm like, I'm not going into places where they force me to use, like, cash. Enough with this. So, in Israel, there's barely any use in cash. Like, maybe in markets. This also changes a lot. and to be fair, after Covid, it did change a lot in Germany. And I remember coming to Germany, and even in, like, the bakeries, you're not able to pay with card. And I'm like, why is that? and so now they've changed it a bit, but there's still many places where you either have, like, a minimum amount of payment that you have to do with. To pay with card or you, like, there is no option. And so for me, I am like, I'm not used to this. I'm still against it. I'm still opposing it until it's, like, completely changed. And especially after being in so many countries when they're like, oh, we don't accept cash. And you're like, yeah, finally, you know, so I'm not used to that. No.

>> Victoria: Yeah, yeah. But you're right. It changed a lot in the last years because I remember going to Germany after Covid. I'm like, oh, wow, there is a lot cashless or you can't use a card at a lot of places.

>> Edin: Like, it seems like they needed an actual reason.

>> Victoria: Yeah, exactly. Don't spread the germs.

>> Edin: Let's not spread germs. That was like, sure, okay. I'm fine with if that's, like, what you go for. Awesome. Other than that, I'm like, there could be times where I have. I can have all the money in the world, but I don't have access to it because it's not in cash. stop it.

>> Victoria: Yeah.

Aiden: If you are curious about moving to Germany, definitely check out website

All right. I think I have all my questions answered. Thank you m so much for being on my podcast.

>> Edin: Yeah, absolutely. I had a blast. Thank you for inviting me. Of course.

>> Victoria: Anytime.

>> Victoria: Yeah, that was Aiden. And definitely check out the show notes because there is a link for her band, Shooby Doom, and also a link for her relocation agency over the OFC. yeah. If you are curious about moving to Germany, definitely check out that website. Website. And reach out to Aiden. She is super nice, as you probably heard in the podcast, and she probably is happy to share some more information with you. That was it from this week. I hope you tune in again next week. And before I forget, if you don't mind, then give the podcast a five star rating wherever you listen to podcasts. If you listen to Apple podcasts, you could also maybe just write a sentence while you like this podcast. And don't forget to push the follow button in the corner of your app so you will always be notified when there is a new episode out and you will never miss any. You can listen to it right away. All right, that was it from this week. Okay. Until then, bye.