[SPEAKER_03]: Hello.

[SPEAKER_03]: Hello.

[SPEAKER_03]: Hello.

[SPEAKER_03]: This is the Vancouver Weather State podcast.

[SPEAKER_01]: And welcome back to Vancouver Real Estate podcast.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm your host Adam Sclina.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm your other host Matt Sclina.

[SPEAKER_01]: And Matt, I should say host, but also realtors with Oakland Realty in downtown Vancouver.

[SPEAKER_01]: And today a true fan favorite, bow Jarvis president and CEO of West Group.

[SPEAKER_02]: This is a third time postman on the show.

[SPEAKER_02]: He was gracious enough to come down to the studio.

[SPEAKER_02]: I feel like this was a fantastic conversation.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: And it fantastic in the way that it was an hour, a little over an hour, however long we went.

[SPEAKER_02]: We kind of covered everything from [SPEAKER_02]: politics to economy, to real state narratives, to investing, but it's very exciting to hear post-hick because he's talking, you know, they do layoffs, which we talk about, West Group is kind of between West Group and Rennie.

[SPEAKER_02]: They're the two kind of very public layoffs that have happened, laying off twelve percent in their jobs.

[SPEAKER_02]: But West Group is a company where when they make layoffs, the federal government calls bow.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, the provincial government calls bow.

[SPEAKER_02]: So he's got insight that not many people have, and it was fantastic hearing it, and not to mention he's a super break guy.

[SPEAKER_02]: Obviously, so it's great talking of.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's one of those conversations where you're like, I could do this for the next three hours.

[SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot to cover here, but also I'm just really enjoying this conversation and hearing what he has to say.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: And we're recognizing that those are very busy guys.

[SPEAKER_01]: So we kept them for an hour, but I think we fit a lot into this hour conversation.

[SPEAKER_02]: Since we've had it, I've gone and went back to many different aspects of this story and thought, oh, that's an interesting.

[SPEAKER_02]: I want to dig deeper into, I want to think more about that.

[SPEAKER_02]: So it's like reading a book where you read a paragraph and go, man, there's like, fifteen ideas in this.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no, I know.

[SPEAKER_01]: And in great five-wire, too.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, no, always.

[SPEAKER_02]: Always.

[SPEAKER_02]: We didn't even get into the skiing past.

[SPEAKER_02]: I feel like, but we go back if you want to hear more about that.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he's got a great story as well.

[SPEAKER_01]: So anyways, but before we get to that matter, of course, this episode is sponsored by Scalina Real Estate, which is our real estate team in Vancouver.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I believe we have a segment that remains nameless.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's that trivia segment.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's right, we have a segment, and I do have a trivia question today.

[SPEAKER_02]: Adam, it actually relates to single family homes.

[SPEAKER_02]: But before I get to this single family home, trivia question, yes, I did want to bring up a single family home showing that you had this week on the east side.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't, I think I think there is multiple offers on this house.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, the house will, how, how will it remain?

[SPEAKER_02]: Close to a library.

[SPEAKER_02]: Let's just put it that way.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah, but it was one of the more uncomfortable showings of this never happened to me before middle of the day.

[SPEAKER_01]: Are you serious?

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, let's get to the story.

[SPEAKER_01]: Sorry, but the middle of the day, we're standing.

[SPEAKER_01]: We're on the top floor of the house.

[SPEAKER_01]: Me, my client husband and wife.

[SPEAKER_01]: You're overlooking commercial space.

[SPEAKER_01]: We're looking overlooking where we share a commercial alley overlooking the commercial space.

[SPEAKER_01]: And we're getting the views of the commercial retail, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: And on top of the, when I believe as a library, there are two people I would say in there, this is about twelve noon or so, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: On like a Tuesday call it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, nice day though.

[SPEAKER_01]: Beautiful day too.

[SPEAKER_01]: people on the rooftop that are around the late forties early fifties, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: Like totally our folks start making out on the rooftop.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's a bit strange.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and we're like, and first we're like, we acknowledge that they're on the roof, we're kind of looking out at the view.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then it's like, oh, there's people on that roof.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then all of a sudden, they start making on.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, oh, they're making out.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then as we're kind of staring out at the view, the make-up progresses, you say, you said to me, like, they're not just making out, they start like, go on.

[UNKNOWN]: Really?

[SPEAKER_01]: And then I swear like broad daylight a sex act happened.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, let me just say remind of me of playing the jazz flute and [SPEAKER_01]: in high school.

[SPEAKER_01]: Here's the, here's the, it was, yeah, but this is not, this is a true story.

[SPEAKER_01]: This happened like three days ago.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like in the middle of the day and we're all like, whoa, whoa, it went from like, wow, those people are thinking of the like, oh my gosh, this is in decent.

[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: And anyways, they're in the privacy of their own library rooftop.

[SPEAKER_02]: So [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Anyways, let's get to the trivia question.

[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_02]: So Adam, I was wondering about, you know, we're summer months.

[SPEAKER_02]: I was wondering at first, I thought how many single family homes in the city of Vancouver have sold.

[SPEAKER_02]: But then I got looking and I came up with this trivia question.

[SPEAKER_02]: So we're talking west side and east side in the last thirty days.

[SPEAKER_02]: What was the largest percentage price drop sale recorded over the last month?

[SPEAKER_02]: percentage wise and bonus if it was dollar mount.

[SPEAKER_02]: Was it the same sale?

[SPEAKER_02]: Make your guess.

[SPEAKER_02]: But before we get this, right Adam, we do have a new listing.

[SPEAKER_02]: I want to highlight this one.

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[SPEAKER_02]: It's a, it's a master plan community from two thousand eight would frame four stories.

[SPEAKER_02]: You look at it and you go, man, this was built right before they decided.

[SPEAKER_02]: Sixty stories made sense in Brentwood, but fantastic complex.

[SPEAKER_02]: Of course, I mentioned lead Mac that are renowned builder to bed to bath.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I was looking at this listing in a, and I mean, all the benefits of a garden suite without the negatives.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, exactly.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So it's kind of an amazing spot.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So back to the trivia question, Matt.

[SPEAKER_01]: And please remind listeners just quickly.

[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_01]: So basically, I went back a month.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_02]: In the city of Vancouver, I looked at all single family sales.

[SPEAKER_02]: You're sixty.

[SPEAKER_02]: You said what was the largest percentage price drop sale over the last month.

[SPEAKER_02]: So we're looking for a percentage listing from listing price to sale price.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's right.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I'm going to go up big drops.

[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like there's a lot of how big of a drop.

[SPEAKER_01]: So that's for detached.

[SPEAKER_01]: So got to be probably more than three hundred grand.

[SPEAKER_01]: Bonus if you can say west side or east side.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to say west side and I'm going to say, uh, twenty percent pretty good.

[SPEAKER_02]: It was the west side.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_02]: It was eighteen point six eight percent.

[SPEAKER_02]: Ah, the list price was two nine eight.

[SPEAKER_02]: Ooh, the other than I thought.

[SPEAKER_02]: Two point nine eight and the sold price was two point four three eight.

[SPEAKER_02]: So five hundred and sixty thousand dollar price drop.

[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_02]: It wasn't the biggest price drop in dollar terms.

[SPEAKER_02]: That was close to nine hundred grand.

[SPEAKER_02]: Eight hundred and forty nine thousand.

[SPEAKER_02]: That was over in Oak Ridge.

[SPEAKER_01]: surprising to see it in more the entry level detached market on the west side on the west side yeah exactly expecting more around five million there were three over asking single family home sales in the last month all on the east side all under all under one eight yeah yeah I believe that yes so it's kind of it makes sense right that mark is no joke it's a lot of pressure kind of under the one one yeah and from your story there's a lot of pressure building [SPEAKER_01]: All right, what else do we got Matt?

[SPEAKER_02]: I guess we need to know this conversation with Beau.

[SPEAKER_02]: This is great.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, let's cut to the chase here.

[SPEAKER_02]: Beau Jarvis, everybody.

[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so we're here with Bo Jarvis.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's the president and CEO of West Group.

[SPEAKER_01]: How you doing, Bo?

[SPEAKER_01]: You're in really well.

[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.

[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for taking the time.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I think this is a third.

[SPEAKER_01]: Third time, past test one.

[SPEAKER_01]: And favorite for sure.

[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for having me.

[SPEAKER_01]: I love being this started during this podcast.

[SPEAKER_01]: Awesome.

[SPEAKER_01]: Awesome.

[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe can you start by telling our listeners that haven't haven't heard you on the show before?

[SPEAKER_01]: Can you tell us a little bit about yourself?

[SPEAKER_00]: Sure, yeah, presidency of West Group properties and West Group is one of the largest privately held real estate development companies in Western Canada.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're involved in all facets of real estate development, a lot of housing, industrial office space, retail, purpose built rental for sale housing, kind of high rise, low rise, everything, promiscuous in the market is what I like to say.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I oversee the operations.

[SPEAKER_00]: I guess the strategic direction of the organization, but really I have leadership team that is second and none.

[SPEAKER_00]: And they do everything.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I come and do stuff like this now.

[SPEAKER_02]: Then pretty good.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, oh, how's the market?

[SPEAKER_02]: The market.

[SPEAKER_00]: I would say the market is probably in the most challenged place that I've ever seen in my career.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it is, I mean, you know, the headlines or the headlines, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Where there's, we're starting to see workforce reductions, layoffs, job loss, canceled projects, postpone projects, re-configured projects, [SPEAKER_00]: Vancouver and Toronto housing starts diminishing significantly.

[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, I think I should actually make a little point there.

[SPEAKER_00]: So housing starts as defined by CMHC.

[SPEAKER_00]: So last of June over June, housing starts in Vancouver went up seventy percent, but that's actually not true because they measure a housing start when a foundation gets degraded.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so sometimes on these big multifamily projects, it's about two to two and a half years before we get to grade.

[SPEAKER_00]: So that housing start was actually two and a half years ago.

[SPEAKER_00]: I've been investment decision and breaking ground.

[SPEAKER_00]: So there's that where we're actually collaborating with CMHC in the government on that data.

[SPEAKER_00]: But so housing starts are down significantly.

[SPEAKER_00]: Investment has dried up.

[SPEAKER_00]: Capital is an issue.

[SPEAKER_00]: Liquidity.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's in crisis.

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, you did, you made headlines last month calling the layoffs at West Group, one of the most difficult days in the company's sixty-year history.

[SPEAKER_01]: Can you walk us through it led to that moment and how you approached making such a tough decision?

[SPEAKER_01]: And we should say, who's twelve percent?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it'll get, it'll near, it's a, it was twelve percent on that day.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_02]: So, twelve percent it just for context for people that weren't falling along on LinkedIn and I guess in the real estate news significantly off so west group.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's significant for sure.

[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, how do we get here?

[SPEAKER_00]: I guess this kind of a yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: We've been in a pretty [SPEAKER_00]: challenged real estate market from a real estate development perspective and a delivery of housing perspective, a delivery of job space perspective for, you know, five years.

[SPEAKER_00]: And we've had a tremendous, if not unprecedented amount of government intervention, which we've talked about on this podcast before, by all levels of government as a result of the housing crisis, what I know.

[SPEAKER_00]: like to characterize as a cost of delivery crisis rather than affordability crisis, but because of that, I'm going to interest rates, construction cost inflation, taxes, fees and levees from various levels of government making up thirty percent of the cost of new housing, and it just everything compounded and [SPEAKER_00]: culminated into the situation where we stagnated in terms of the market.

[SPEAKER_00]: We, where there's no absorption, people can't afford to buy what we're trying to sell.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's at a cost that nobody can afford.

[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, you saw on the industrial market and the office market, all kinds of softening occurring there.

[SPEAKER_00]: Obviously, you know, we work from home and hybrid work strategies that came out of COVID has really caused issues in the office market.

[SPEAKER_00]: industrials come off and so everything we do effectively has been challenged with the exception of purpose built rental which we are you know huge where large developer of purpose built rental and one of CMHC's largest partners on the west coast so that's been that's been very strong with that said we're starting to see a softening there as well so [SPEAKER_00]: We did everything we could during those period or, you know, the last five years to maintain our talent, our talent is just paramount our people and and we have built our really great culture at West Group that attracts and routines talent.

[SPEAKER_00]: We really spend a lot of time on that.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so over the last few years, as we were waiting for the market to kind of pick up and stabilize more certainty, more stability, we were operating on the call it on the merchant side of our business, conduct for sale, pre-sale.

[SPEAKER_00]: You operate in a deficit as you're working through these projects.

[SPEAKER_00]: And most companies do this because you carry a large amount of overhead.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then you know, you work through a big lump of condos or preset town homes, whatever it is.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then they all close and you pay back a few years of operating deficit plus your profits and you kind of start again.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Because there's no even flow of housing delivery.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's lumpy.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's just how it works.

[SPEAKER_00]: And what happened is that period extended in terms of like getting these housing units delivered.

[SPEAKER_00]: And this is not isolated to West Group.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so it's not sustainable to continue operating in this sort of deficit from an overhead perspective.

[SPEAKER_00]: And we were actually selling off some non core assets and things like that from our balance sheet.

[SPEAKER_00]: to make sure that we could continue to pay our people and keep everybody really wanting to keep our talent.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's really important to us.

[SPEAKER_00]: We also took on a little bit more debt.

[SPEAKER_00]: We have very, very conservative thresholds for our balance sheet in terms of debt to equity.

[SPEAKER_00]: And we're quite disciplined and maintaining that.

[SPEAKER_00]: We breach some of those thresholds again to generate liquidity and keep our people.

[SPEAKER_00]: But it wasn't sustainable any longer.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it was a terrible decision.

[SPEAKER_00]: It was horrible.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's anybody who has to go through that in a large way like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's just shitty.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so that was about a month ago now.

[SPEAKER_00]: And we're just trying to sort of stabilize at the moment and carry forward.

[SPEAKER_00]: What do you think it means?

[SPEAKER_02]: for the industry and a more broadly.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I mean that from West Group is one of the most established players in Vancouver.

[SPEAKER_02]: I know land banking and things like that.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like you guys are very well positioned.

[SPEAKER_02]: If you're laying off ten, twelve percent or however much it is at this point, where do you think everybody else is at?

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, there's been there's been a number of quiet workforce reductions from names that you know.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so that's already been happening.

[SPEAKER_00]: We were ourselves and Randy were kind of the first to kind of be a little bit more public about it because frankly speaking, I think we're doing ourselves a disservice as an industry by quietly doing it.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know at this point in time when our industry is literally bleeding out and and this could be a [SPEAKER_00]: This could have been avoidable, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: So back to the colliding up to the decision.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's really or disappointing because when we've been engaging with government, all levels of government over the last five to ten years, we've been saying, you know, if you do this, here's what the end result will be, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's been this death by a thousand cuts until here we are, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: And this could have been avoided.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so [SPEAKER_00]: And you're seeing it's already occurring.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's happening on the general contractor side, too, quietly.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I've been advocating with my colleagues and peers in the industry to be public about it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Be respectful.

[SPEAKER_00]: Be respectful of the people that are departing.

[SPEAKER_00]: And we did everything we could to try and help them out.

[SPEAKER_00]: We put it out.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's one of the other reasons we went public was to let people know that there's people from West Group really good talent.

[SPEAKER_00]: that are departing and, you know, if you have work or jobs, let's put, let's connect you.

[SPEAKER_00]: We've actually started connecting a bunch of the people and some of the people are starting to get picked up, which is really cool.

[SPEAKER_00]: So that's another reason to be a little bit more public about it.

[SPEAKER_00]: But, you know, we are one of the best positioned in the industry.

[SPEAKER_00]: We have one of the long, strongest balance sheets.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so if we're going through this, [SPEAKER_00]: everybody's going to be going through it.

[SPEAKER_00]: And indeed, you know, there was the article that came out in the global mail all like, yes, about two weeks ago, and there were more people added to the list that were, you know, polygon was on there.

[SPEAKER_00]: Neil Christos interviewed, I think he's been on this podcast before, um, people in Toronto, groups in Toronto, with significant layoffs.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so, you know, is interesting because, about within two hours of the announcement, I got calls from both the provincial government and the federal government.

[SPEAKER_00]: Really.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so, you know, that tells you something because we're sitting here collaborating and engaging whatever you want to call it, advocating for the last five to seven years, ten years on all of this crazy policy intervention.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then job loss and the way to they perk up.

[SPEAKER_00]: So that means something.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so I found that quite interesting.

[SPEAKER_00]: Was it?

[SPEAKER_02]: Were they surprised?

[SPEAKER_02]: Or was it just like, okay, we just heard the news and we want to check in and kind of take the pulse.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think they are surprised.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Is this, is there disconnect?

[SPEAKER_01]: Because I mean, Matt and I talk about how we feel like we're in an echo chamber, sometimes hard to, because I mean, you still go to a cocktail party and people are like, how's the market?

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, you guys must be busy and it's like, are you?

[SPEAKER_01]: I'll be paying attention.

[SPEAKER_01]: Clearly, don't listen to the show.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like we're doing three a week.

[SPEAKER_01]: No.

[SPEAKER_01]: Just to keep this connected in this like what's happening in the industry.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like I feel like going public with something like this here, you are sounding the alarm a bit in a way that I think is meaningful like you suggest.

[SPEAKER_01]: And but do you feel like there's a big disconnect between what's actually happening in the industry and what the general public sees.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think there's a huge disconnect.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think we're starting to bridge that gap.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's when that's been our core objective, my core objective, and advocacy efforts.

[SPEAKER_00]: I literally wrote this down on a piece of paper, you know, I don't know, ten years ago, because we're, we're huge into advocacy.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're just front and center developing our own channels into the province, into Ottawa, et cetera, without working, like we're [SPEAKER_00]: We support and we collaborate with industry associations.

[SPEAKER_00]: We've obviously been on boards and I've was the chair of UDI, but we're really kind of moving forward on our own.

[SPEAKER_00]: And about ten years ago, I wrote down on a piece of paper that I want to take the word greedy from out in front of the word developer.

[SPEAKER_00]: that was that I wrote that down and sure enough in twenty twenty four we saw three newspaper articles with the word's greedy government.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know one was an national post one was I think global mail and I don't know it you know but um so you know we're I think we're starting to bridge that gap in terms of the reality versus sort of contrary to popular belief let's just call it and so you know I I spent a lot of time now and you know I get made fun of in the office for this but I dive into the reddit threads and I don't [SPEAKER_00]: generally participate, but I observe, because there's a lot going on there, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: And in the LinkedIn conversations, and on Twitter, X, or whatever, and you dive in there, and you can see the different sentiments and the different perspectives, and you can see quite clearly that there's a disconnect for sure with what's going on on the ground versus what's perceived, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: And there still indeed is a perception that developers are [SPEAKER_00]: you know, making billions and millions.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, there was a counselor from a city in the lower mainland that was on C.K.

[SPEAKER_00]: and W.

I believe it was the Jazz Joe Hall show that, you know, they were advocating for making a policy change that would be impactful to the delivery of housing and Jazz Joe Hall said, you know, I think it was either semi-sara Jazz Joe Hall said, you know, what about [SPEAKER_00]: How will this impact developers or landlords or whatever?

[SPEAKER_00]: And she said, this counselor, the elected official, I'm not worried about them.

[SPEAKER_00]: They're making billions and billions.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I immediately reached out to her and I said, I would like to have a meeting with you.

[SPEAKER_00]: You just said this, you're an elected official.

[SPEAKER_00]: It is entirely irresponsible of you to be saying that like that without [SPEAKER_00]: understanding what's going on whatsoever.

[SPEAKER_00]: And we met and had coffee.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I brought like, performance and data.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I said, like, you can't say that.

[SPEAKER_00]: You educate yourself.

[SPEAKER_00]: You're an elected official.

[SPEAKER_00]: You have a higher level of responsibility.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's extremely challenging.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's a time where we're trying to bridge that gap with the disconnect between, you know, when you're at the cocktail party and someone says, oh, you guys are probably killing it right now, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: I brought a brown face.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I have a party of old things like that.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the old years, my lunch.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think we kind of covered it, but we're talking about kind of reddit threads and LinkedIn in general impressions.

[SPEAKER_02]: I just wanted to go back, so when the federal government and the provincial government who you've been loudly advocating against, I guess, or advocating to and cooperating with when they're surprised, though, that feels like [SPEAKER_02]: Like, is there, do you think there's just a fundamental distrust still that kind of comes from that, oh, greedy developer or, you know, an industry that, you know, whiny industry or whatever the narrative is?

[SPEAKER_00]: I think there is.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's deeply rooted, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: If you think about this, like the greedy developer narrative has been something that has been almost generational.

[SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so when you and politicians have seized on that narrative, they have said, I, you know, I'm not going to meet with developers and pander to developers like it's been something that has been politicized and and you've you've attracted votes by saying that.

[SPEAKER_00]: And now you are held accountable to those constituents who voted for you because you said that.

[SPEAKER_00]: without really understanding that, you know, a developer is just delivering roofs over people's heads or, you know, we're, and also creating jobs and taking risks.

[SPEAKER_00]: And there's people that, you know, we, we, there's thousands of jobs on our sites every day from electricians to architects to tri-wallers to development managers to project metal center, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: And so I think that, you know, that is also rooted in the bureaucracy in many respects.

[SPEAKER_00]: And in the what I refer to government apparatus, right, this sort of ideology.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so we've been sort of step by step, increment by increment, trying to educate and be really open and transparent about things to help people understand.

[SPEAKER_00]: And doing it in a meaningful way.

[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes it's sometimes it's a little blunt, but really like it's a grab attention a little bit, but but if you if you kind of peel that initial bluntness, there's a whole layer layer upon layer of transparency.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that's how we've been trying to do it is be super open, super transparent.

[SPEAKER_00]: Back to the reddit threads and things like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: We've been linked in to be quite interestingly impactful with advocacy, especially with the business community and government, in fact.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so we've been using that tool, and I do dive into the comment sections there and start respectfully debating with people.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's definitely not Twitter X.

[SPEAKER_00]: In terms of the bitter visceral or bitter role, whatever you would say, bitter, bitter, bitter that you find there.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's much more like tone down on LinkedIn and you can have a bit of a debate.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I debate with people sometimes, and it's just someone who is, you can see their title and what they do on LinkedIn.

[SPEAKER_00]: And they have nothing to do with our industry yet.

[SPEAKER_00]: They are debating with me as if they are.

[SPEAKER_00]: And just to President CEOs going at it.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't, I usually don't call it out like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: I just try and engage.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then what I typically say is look, if you'd really like to have a conversation, I'd welcome you to come to my office.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'd have coffee with you.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm happy to show you all of our dashboards.

[SPEAKER_00]: Again, we're super transparent.

[SPEAKER_00]: Some people disappear because they don't want to hear it.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's an inconvenient truth.

[SPEAKER_00]: Some people engage and I have coffee with them.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I show them.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so yeah, so it's a long answer to your question that always is with me, a long answer to anybody's question, but there is a disconnect.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're trying to bridge that gap.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think we're making some headway.

[SPEAKER_01]: Now is there still a disconnect with like, I mean, the provincial government has to be looking at this and recognizing some pretty negative trends here.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I would imagine there's a sense of maybe panic about some of the decisions that have been made or is there still a disconnect there as well.

[SPEAKER_00]: I would say like, [SPEAKER_00]: The provincial government, they have, and we've talked about this on this podcast before, they've made some moves with policy that we as an industry in fact advocated for.

[SPEAKER_00]: Some of them, I think, are working out and some of them have yet to work out or I don't think are working out.

[SPEAKER_00]: An example of what is working out is removing public hearings from development housing applications that are compliant with an official community plan, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: You're not really engaging anymore.

[SPEAKER_00]: That is a massive policy shift that is extremely helpful.

[SPEAKER_00]: The amenity cost charge ACC policy.

[SPEAKER_00]: I can't remember what bill that was that is supposed to create certainty around density bonus payments and community amenity contributions.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know that that's really working out that well and that was intended to create stability certainty and rigor around how all of that is happening.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so as we move down the path here, I do think that there's still a pretty significant disconnect between the provincial politics and bureaucracy and what is happening on the ground.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, we, we conveyed that if we keep doing this, there will be job law, you know.

[SPEAKER_00]: I had a, I had a beer with Premier Ebie at Christmas and it was a really great conversation.

[SPEAKER_00]: There was no agenda.

[SPEAKER_00]: I was really grateful that he gave me that time.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's, you know, I actually like, there's things that I like about our premier and then there's think many things that I completely and fundamentally disagree with.

[SPEAKER_00]: He gave me that time.

[SPEAKER_00]: It was funny.

[SPEAKER_00]: I said, you know, I'm probably not at the top of your list to have a beer with the Christmas beer and I really appreciate your time.

[SPEAKER_00]: He said, uh, you're not at the bottom of my list.

[SPEAKER_00]: But you know, I conveyed to him recently that there are things that can be done that we need to do right now, that you're not acting on and our industry is bleeding out.

[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, he doesn't really, he, I know he's reading.

[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't respond.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I'm just, you know, he's the premier of the province.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just a dude.

[SPEAKER_00]: And when we did the layoffs, I just said, you know, here's what we just did.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I indicated to you in the text above that our industry's bleeding out and there are things you can do that are immediate and they're not being done.

[SPEAKER_00]: And now we're doing this.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so there is a disconnect.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, they also just did a cabinet shift.

[SPEAKER_00]: This was a new housing minister as of last week in our industry.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I am, I would say speaking for our industry right now because I've spoken with many of my colleagues has some questions about that decision.

[SPEAKER_00]: Because there's a voting track record at City Council in the city of Vancouver regarding housing and there's commentary that you can go and you can see on video council meeting and there's quite a history there and you know we're in the midst of like we're laying people off.

[SPEAKER_00]: Polygon's laying people off.

[SPEAKER_00]: Other developers who you know have already done so.

[SPEAKER_00]: General contractors are laying people off because developers aren't starting projects.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so you do that this new housing minister really needs to come in and really understand what's going on on the ground to snap into action here is the message.

[SPEAKER_00]: Because there is some questions about the track record.

[SPEAKER_02]: Is there, do you see any logic?

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, first off, I guess it was the general shuffle, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: But to have Ravi Kaylon on the file for a couple years, it's probably feeling like, okay, I fully understand what's going on now.

[SPEAKER_02]: He came from an entirely different area.

[SPEAKER_02]: And at a time where basically we're in, you know, as you describe it, essentially crisis.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I go ahead, pull the rug out from under him.

[SPEAKER_02]: He goes elsewhere.

[SPEAKER_02]: And it's like the new person who's got to even if the track record was fine, has to relearn everything.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like that's, so is there a logic to this that involves housing at all?

[SPEAKER_02]: Or is it just like unfortunate circumstances?

[SPEAKER_00]: What's going on?

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, again, I actually like Ravi as a person.

[SPEAKER_00]: I can have a conversation with Ravi and I, and it's a really nice conversation.

[SPEAKER_00]: Do I agree with all of his decisions on the housing file?

[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely not.

[SPEAKER_00]: Do I think that he could have acted faster and done more?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, but yeah, I like I don't know.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what was behind this decision.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's moved to jobs, which is obviously a pretty important file right now and maybe it demonstrates that they are concerned about jobs in general, but yeah, it's it's it's we're all sort of going, why why why do we really why are we doing this right now?

[SPEAKER_00]: And because he, he, Ravi absolutely had generated a strong understanding of what we needed to do.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now, politically, did he have the will or the support to do some of the things?

[SPEAKER_00]: That's a whole different question.

[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: What about at the federal level?

[SPEAKER_01]: Is there anything you're optimistic about or?

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm glad you asked that question.

[SPEAKER_00]: I am optimistic about the federal level.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we were the same week that we engaged in their reduction in workforce.

[SPEAKER_00]: On the at the end of the week on a Friday, we flew to Ottawa.

[SPEAKER_00]: We started a group that was it's just eight of some of the largest home builders in Canada from across Canada, BC Alberta, Quebec and Ontario.

[SPEAKER_00]: we started up based on the premise that we are making the investments were on the ground taking the risk stop engaging with academics associations and I have nothing against the associations right they're doing a great job but [SPEAKER_00]: When it gets to nuanced, complex policy around taxes or whatever, you gotta go directly to the source, which is the developer, the builder.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so we said to them like enough, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Like you guys, how is it that you feel so comfortable?

[SPEAKER_00]: putting out policy for our industry and just having us react or defend against it, whereas with aerospace or big auto, would you ever put out policy without speaking to the executives of that industry to understand what unintended consequences of that policy might be?

[SPEAKER_00]: And they all just, when I asked that question, just like I said it right here, and they stare at me like a deer in the headlight.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I say, let's look at agriculture.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I'll tell you about Ottawa and get to the answer.

[SPEAKER_00]: Look at agriculture.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, agriculture goes into a drought.

[SPEAKER_00]: What does government do?

[SPEAKER_00]: And I asked this question of a whole bunch of people in Ottawa and they said, well, you know, we support.

[SPEAKER_00]: Housing is an industry and it's in drought.

[SPEAKER_00]: And yet you want to add like vacant land taxes and you want to penalize us because you don't think we're working fast enough or whatever the case is like we have to shift this mindset.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so this new, I'll say federal liberal government is notwithstanding there's many of the same actors.

[SPEAKER_00]: My observation is they are acting very different.

[SPEAKER_00]: like very different.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we we created this group that is eight developers, you know, you talk to us.

[SPEAKER_00]: You don't talk to the academics enough of this bullshit.

[SPEAKER_00]: We want like you need to hear us.

[SPEAKER_00]: You need to don't even don't even at an ounce of policy, politically or otherwise without talking to us first.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's no time for unintended consequences anymore, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: We've gotten from crisis to acute.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so we went with them with a three hour meeting with fifty five government officials on a Friday in Ottawa from like finance department, housing, economics, jobs, CMHC, everyone.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it was incredibly productive.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like it was awesome.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then we went into an hour and a half meeting with the housing minister Gregor who we obviously know from Vancouver here and we're quite stoked actually that he's the housing minister and on that night I can get to that in a minute.

[SPEAKER_00]: But we met with him for an hour and a half and then we went back and met and recockest with many members of the previous group for morning.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's Friday of the long weekend.

[SPEAKER_00]: The offices are full.

[SPEAKER_00]: These people, these, you know, the bureaucrats are there, they're texting me for information at midnight their time, like consistently.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so the question was, are you optimistic about what's going on in Ottawa or whatever?

[SPEAKER_00]: They are different.

[SPEAKER_00]: They are acting, they are active, they are trying, and they sent us, and it's the first, like we gave a big submission when we went there for that day of things that, here are the issues, here's the solutions that we think, let us explain them to you in detail.

[SPEAKER_00]: They circulated all of that and sent us back super detailed questions.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I've never had that happen before.

[SPEAKER_00]: We submit shit all the time.

[SPEAKER_02]: Into the void.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it was like, holy cow, we've spent the last couple of weeks actually answering those questions as a group.

[SPEAKER_00]: And we're sending them in tomorrow.

[SPEAKER_00]: They answers to the questions.

[SPEAKER_00]: And they've also asked our group to make a submission for the fall budget, the federal budget.

[SPEAKER_00]: And we're just finishing that up right now.

[SPEAKER_00]: So again, long ends, always these questions are long answers, but there's something that's different there.

[SPEAKER_00]: They are active and active and they are working hard.

[SPEAKER_01]: Why there's a couple of questions out of here, but one is why, why is the housing, why is the development industry not taken seriously the same way of like net in previously not being consulted in the same way?

[SPEAKER_01]: Is it something organizational or is it like that there hasn't been enough lobbying or what is it?

[SPEAKER_00]: I think one of the biggest things, and we said this, is we're a very fragmented industry, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: So the biggest home builder in Canada, which I think it could be, it's a matter of me, perhaps in Toronto, delivers like three percent of all housing in Canada.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so you think big autumn.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, there's no GM.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so we're fragmented.

[SPEAKER_00]: And what a developer does needs what works for someone in Quebec doesn't work for someone in BC.

[SPEAKER_00]: BC is the only province that has the real estate marketing act.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so everything is just chopped up and different.

[SPEAKER_00]: And you got people that are building lean homes and single family homes and you got people that are building high rise and you got, you know, everything in between.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so I think that's one of the primary reasons.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's been challenged.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then we have, you know, with UDI, it was the most prominent industry advocacy group here in BC.

[SPEAKER_00]: And in Ontario, it's like build or, you know, it's a different type of group and there's the, you know, the, then there's ULI, there's NAOP, there's all these different associations real pack.

[SPEAKER_00]: And, and they're all kind of trying to vine for space and vine for that pathway into Ottawa to be at the table to advocate.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, [SPEAKER_00]: I think that's the primary reason why we've been treated differently, but I also believe that narrative, that ideology around the greedy developer is quite pervasive, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's part of it as well.

[SPEAKER_00]: They haven't respected us.

[SPEAKER_00]: They haven't respected our industry for the risk that we take.

[SPEAKER_00]: What it is that we're actually doing, again, putting roofs over people's heads.

[SPEAKER_00]: And we've been the, we've been the go-to sort of monster that the villain, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: And we're starting to change that.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so now we're being heard more, we're being listened to, respected, I guess.

[SPEAKER_00]: So does he?

[SPEAKER_02]: At the federal level, that's kind of really exciting and probably speaks to the just how the federal government's kind of changed and taking everything on, which is exciting.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think for listeners out there, they don't kind of understand the different layers of the feds, the provincial, the municipal.

[SPEAKER_02]: What does that actually mean like on the ground that they're taking those actions for a company like West Group?

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's huge, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: So you all, the each level of government has different levers they can push poll to help.

[SPEAKER_00]: Obviously municipal governments are responsible for land use.

[SPEAKER_00]: urban planning and then development cost charges and community many contributions and there's that.

[SPEAKER_00]: The province comes to the table in various ways because there's legislation or it call it policy law that we have to deal with.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's like ministry of transport and environment.

[SPEAKER_00]: Things like that fisheries.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, shit that like that goes to the province.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think fisheries could be federal actually.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm getting all the departments wrong because they've changed the names from DFO to this to that.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so the province, but the province also is in charge of the municipal like government act and the Vancouver charter.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right, so they can start to put pressure on local levels of government and regional governments to shape make some changes and and there's quit pro quo that goes on there.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then the federal government, I really think one of the biggest roles the federal government can take with is with the words that it uses.

[SPEAKER_00]: and taking a leadership role with how it talks and how it speaks to housing and the industry as a sector, et cetera.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then the second big thing where the federal government comes into place is capital.

[SPEAKER_00]: So CMHC, you know, I think it was recently reported is literally involved in fifty-eight percent of all starts or something like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't know if it was British Columbia or Canada or anything, but it was some crazy stat.

[SPEAKER_00]: where, you know, if not for CMHC, nothing would be getting built.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so, and I want to plug to CMHC, and the federal government in this regard, like they've really, really come to the table with their RCFI, which is now ACLP, so it previously stood for rental construction financing initiative.

[SPEAKER_00]: And now it's changed to ACLP apartment construction loan program, which is effectively the same program, new acronym.

[SPEAKER_00]: is literally responsible for delivering more purpose-built rental housing in our country than since we were building with the Merbs in the seventies.

[SPEAKER_00]: And they really deserve some credit for coming to the table because I do think we'd be in a very different place without them.

[SPEAKER_00]: So again, that's how the federal government helps is through CMHC and through data and statistics and taking a leadership role.

[SPEAKER_02]: I want to talk about Gregor.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'm on a first name basis with them.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, just your take because obviously former mayor of Vancouver.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so Gregor, I think that it was a great choice for housing minister.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think number one, having a high profile cabinet minister at the federal level from Vancouver's is on good.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right, and it helps convey what's going on here because we are very different here, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: And so I think that's very positive.

[SPEAKER_00]: The other thing is, and I'm going to say this very just candidly, he is the most experienced in housing out of any federal cabinet minister.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't care what you say.

[SPEAKER_00]: And this idea that we can just put people in who, you know, have a lot of greed or they taught politics at, you know, Toronto, Metropolitan University or whatever it is.

[SPEAKER_00]: And they can just be the finance minister or, you know, of a G seven nation or the housing minister like come on.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is ridiculous, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: And so he literally has the most experience in housing of any cabinet minister in the federal government.

[SPEAKER_00]: The reasons for that are when he was mayor of Vancouver, he was the one who spearheaded stir, or you know, whether he spearheaded or his his his counsel, which I guess was vision, or you know, or he supported staff spearheading and I don't know how it all worked, but stir was short-term incentives for rental housing.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that was basically, you know, acknowledging that there is an imminent rental housing crisis.

[SPEAKER_00]: How do we stimulate rental housing?

[SPEAKER_00]: What can we do at the local level if the province and the Fed's aren't stepping in?

[SPEAKER_00]: And that was getting rid of sort of development cost charges and giving density for rental housing and different things.

[SPEAKER_00]: It was a pilot project and it really worked and that turned into rental one hundred, which was also vision Vancouver led by Gregor.

[SPEAKER_00]: which turned into the policy that we have today on incentives for rental housing in the city of Vancouver.

[SPEAKER_00]: So he was on that before it was even a thing again.

[SPEAKER_00]: Secondly, he was involved in Nexie, which was a prefabricated panel system.

[SPEAKER_00]: It didn't work out.

[SPEAKER_00]: But the federal government is all over this prefabrication and modular and trying to get this all going.

[SPEAKER_00]: We can have a whole separate podcast about that.

[SPEAKER_00]: But he can bring a wealth of experience from that, you know, not working out for what reasons and and and and what have you.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I just again, I think it was the best decision that they could have made.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think he's got to probably get his being the mayor of Vancouver and being the federal housing minister and debating and and all that is a bit of a difference.

[SPEAKER_00]: Probably, you've got to figure all that out.

[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, that's how I feel.

[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like there's been over the last few years in this downturn, there have been almost like green shoots off in the distance where people have been like, well, wait for the interest rates to come down or wait for this, wait for that.

[SPEAKER_01]: Right now, what do you think, like, what does it take right now to turn the market around?

[SPEAKER_00]: stability, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: So certainty, when interest rates started to come down, we, so let's go to Black to last sort of September, October.

[SPEAKER_00]: We started to see sales center traffic pick up a little bit.

[SPEAKER_00]: We weren't absorbing.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is obviously on our for sale product, but the, the traffic was picking up a little bit.

[SPEAKER_00]: into November, even more last week of December, first, three weeks of January or so.

[SPEAKER_00]: Probably did it.

[SPEAKER_00]: We were all of a sudden doing like nine to twelve deals a week, which for us is like, that's like beautiful.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's like the sweet spot.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's like a tempo mode.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean?

[SPEAKER_00]: And when you're when you're just kind of breaking ground on projects, you have three, four years to deliver and you go into that tempo mode like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's just like heavenly.

[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like we haven't been there in a really long time.

[SPEAKER_00]: So then when Trump was inaugurated and I think liberation day or whatever with the tariffs, it just sucked the auction out of the room.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's been nothing since.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so you have this tariff conversation and I don't even know how to have that conversation.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then the federal government, then there was an election.

[SPEAKER_00]: And everybody's like, well, we're going to wait and see what happens with the election and the results of the election.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then what are their policies going to be?

[SPEAKER_00]: And so sure enough, they come out and say we're going to eliminate GSD for first time home buyers, which, you know, frankly, it does not go far enough whatsoever.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're advocating for that.

[SPEAKER_00]: that hasn't come into, that won't come into effect until they reset in Parliament in September, October.

[SPEAKER_00]: So if you're a perch to right now, you're like, well, I remember what happened with Capital Games.

[SPEAKER_00]: It was there, and then it wasn't.

[SPEAKER_00]: And like, I'm waiting until this is law, and I'm gonna then go and write a contract with a developer at a sales center.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so it's just like it's, it's purgatory.

[SPEAKER_00]: And we need to get out of purgatory.

[SPEAKER_00]: We need to get out of this like, like, box before things can start to turn around and we see green shoots.

[SPEAKER_00]: So stability and certainty.

[SPEAKER_00]: Is it?

[SPEAKER_02]: So when you say before we start to see green shoots, because I think we had Neil Kristalln who saw little green shoots.

[SPEAKER_00]: Have you talked?

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, how have you talked to them today?

[SPEAKER_00]: No.

[SPEAKER_02]: So basically what we're saying today, we're aspiring to green trees.

[SPEAKER_00]: I would say we're aspiring to green shoots.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, look, I am optimistic about the fundamentals of our market and our industry.

[SPEAKER_00]: right from a supply and demand perspective.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's just trying to, you know, if we look at, if we look at building code changes and fees, levies and taxes by all levels of government, you're talking about close to forty percent of the cost of new housing.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's all government.

[SPEAKER_00]: Building code, these levies and taxes, forty percent.

[SPEAKER_00]: If we can start to like make changes there, we're going to start to be able to build housing at a cost that people can afford.

[SPEAKER_00]: And we're going to start to move again and unlock.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so I think I feel like we're on the cusp of that.

[SPEAKER_00]: So maybe that's the green shoot from a policy perspective.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're on the cusp of some change.

[SPEAKER_02]: And so in that, [SPEAKER_02]: just going back to this cost of delivery crisis, that's where the cost comes down, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: The forty percent is what is malleable in the, in the, in the super malleable, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: But, you know, there has to be, government is sucking and blowing.

[SPEAKER_00]: And they say that we, we want to double output in terms of on an annual basis of housing in our country, yet they're taxing the shit out of it, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, you look at, you, you know, housing is cigarettes.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's like a syntax, exactly.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's crazy because we embed all this stuff in the cost of housing for development cost charges, community community contributions, all this kind of stuff.

[SPEAKER_00]: And we just flow it through to the end user, whether they're a purchaser or a renter.

[SPEAKER_00]: At the end of the project, the province and the federal government come with property transfer tax and GST, and they tax all these other levels of government taxes.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's double taxation on.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so we have, and we have ideas as to how to fix it and their nuance and it's complex, but I think they're really strong ideas and government is currently considering them.

[SPEAKER_00]: But if we can make some change there and start to just bring down the cost of delivery, I think we're going to see some movement.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to see some unlocking.

[SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, everyone in real estate talks in terms of market cycles.

[SPEAKER_02]: Is this a regular market cycle, or is this cost of delivery crisis created something else entirely?

[SPEAKER_00]: It's a good question.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to go with, I think, this is different.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I've only been alive for fifty years and probably only thirty understood anything about anything.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: And in the last ten years, you know, really understood anything about anything.

[SPEAKER_00]: But [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like housing has become so politicized.

[SPEAKER_00]: Therefore, there has been so much policy and for it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Because with politics comes policy.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's like a policy follows politics everywhere politics goes.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so we have had an unprecedented [SPEAKER_00]: amount of government intervention, whether in the form of taxation, building code, social engineering, honestly, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: So the province was trying to make every single unit we build have a certain accessibility standards, which was going to make every unit five to ten percent bigger and cost that much more.

[SPEAKER_00]: They backed off on that, but there's social engineering, there's everything we've been trying to [SPEAKER_00]: solve all these different crisis on the backs of housing.

[SPEAKER_00]: Look at climate, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: You look at all these other industries that get tax credits and subsidies to solve, you know, look at Volkswagen and they get like subsidies and tax credit and low interest loans to create battered electric vehicle battery plants.

[SPEAKER_00]: We get taxed, they increase the tax.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then they increase the building code, [SPEAKER_00]: and to deal with climate, and they just pass all these costs on to new homeowners, as opposed to any level of subsidy, any level of tax credit.

[SPEAKER_00]: So how is seen has been used to just solve all these issues and just sort of like all the market will absorb it.

[SPEAKER_00]: The market will bear it.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that's what's now just falling apart before.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm just thinking here and we've asked this question other people, but the whole model for market [SPEAKER_02]: condo townhome construction is based on pre-selling, sixty-seventy percent of the building usually to get to financing.

[SPEAKER_02]: With what you just said, does that model [SPEAKER_02]: still make sense in that you need people to buy with the idea that four or five years down the line, they won't only just have a house or a condo, but it will actually potentially be worth more than it is today.

[SPEAKER_02]: Does that still make sense in your mind or do we need a new model or do we go back to twenty seventeen at some point?

[SPEAKER_01]: And just to piggyback on that, how easy is it to get investors back interested in this market?

[SPEAKER_02]: And that's over.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, this is the podcast.

[SPEAKER_00]: So those are really good questions.

[SPEAKER_00]: So the pre-sale side of things in the banks and how we finance construction and meet a pre-sale test as required by the bank, including requiring us to have a profit.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so that does that model change.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's actually a pretty good model to be honest.

[SPEAKER_00]: Twenty-five years ago, there was no such thing as a pre-sale.

[SPEAKER_00]: A developer would build on spec and they'd go get a construction loan, but it was a much smaller construction loan because it was building on spec and there was way more risk.

[SPEAKER_00]: So this idea of a pre-sale, you're derisking the project, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: And you're able to get more construction debt because the project is de-risk.

[SPEAKER_00]: Therefore, we're having to put less equity in.

[SPEAKER_00]: which means these projects are more capital-efficient.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's a more capital-efficient way to deliver housing.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so I think that's really important.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now, can things be tweaked?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, they can.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, Auss fee, which is the regulatory body for the banks.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think they're causing all kinds of problems, and that needs to be opened up, and we're not talking about that enough.

[SPEAKER_00]: And they're restricting the banks' capital from being deployed, and there's a whole conversation there.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I think the pre-sale model with the banks and how they do it is the best model.

[SPEAKER_00]: most capital efficient way to deliver more housing.

[SPEAKER_00]: The investor is a big part of the presale, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: And this is, and I love that you asked this question because we vilified the investor.

[SPEAKER_00]: They became the villain too.

[SPEAKER_00]: And we, we forgot about the fact that investor's sponsor projects.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we put a project for sale and end users come first time home buyers come and investors come and some investors rent their units out and put them into the rental market, which is really good.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that's called the shadow market and the shadow market is a big part of our purpose bill or not purpose bill, but rental market.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so we push those investors away in a big way.

[SPEAKER_00]: Investors, you know, they don't want to touch this stuff right now because they've just been, you know, we have flipping taxes and speculation and vacancy taxes and tax tax acts.

[SPEAKER_00]: And really, if you think about it, why not let an investor come put their capital into our project so it gets built?

[SPEAKER_00]: And then who cares whether they flip out of it and make a little bit of money or even better put it into the rental market, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: And if you really want to, if you really want to say, okay, like Australia's model is allows the investors to come and buy purpose bill or new product.

[SPEAKER_00]: They can't buy existing product.

[SPEAKER_00]: They can buy new product.

[SPEAKER_00]: So investors are sponsoring the delivery.

[SPEAKER_00]: They can still help.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think they may restrict occupancy so that it has to be put into the market for rental or occupied by that purchaser, I think.

[SPEAKER_00]: So there's ways to deal with it through occupancy restrictions, et cetera.

[SPEAKER_00]: But we just pushed them all away.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so that's created a huge issue.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that it's just this irony, paradox of it all, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Where, you know, no housing should be for people, not investors, investors are getting the housing built for the people, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Right?

[SPEAKER_00]: And so we have to be honest about this.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that's something that I see, you know, you go into the back to the LinkedIn Comber, you know, chats and comments and read it and all that.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's still a very divisive conversation happening there about investors and homes, you end users or whatever.

[SPEAKER_02]: It does feel like, you know, thinking about the kind of narratives, the multiple narratives we've talked about today.

[SPEAKER_02]: like advocating for allowing foreign buyers back into the market feels like that's just it's like political suicide even for the development community in a lot of ways like it's like that that's just one bridge too far even though [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like it's obvious and it makes a ton of sense.

[SPEAKER_02]: And just like you said, like, you know, whether or not they actually come back is another question.

[SPEAKER_00]: But it's interesting that we're inviting as much capital into our market as possible.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you look at the Fraser Institute came out.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think that they said that to meet CMHC's targets, we need one point six to one point eight trillion dollars of capital.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I've said this a few times publicly, that's like three hundred billion a year.

[SPEAKER_00]: in capital that's currently not in the system by twenty thirty one or twenty thirty two.

[SPEAKER_00]: Where's that capital coming from, right, and I think CMHC, I think it's CMHC suggested it's too trillion.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, and not only have we been pushing the investor away from housing and housing projects, we've been pushing capital away from Canada in all sectors.

[SPEAKER_00]: For a decade, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: It's too risky.

[SPEAKER_00]: We don't, we, we fundamentally don't respect a risk taker and then the return that is demanded for that risk.

[SPEAKER_00]: We don't respect that, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: We just want people to come take the risk here in Canada.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then when the return comes, oh, whoa, that's not fair.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's like tall poppy syndrome, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: The one poppy grows a little bit taller in Chama, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: And so we have to celebrate risk taking.

[SPEAKER_00]: We have to celebrate innovators.

[SPEAKER_00]: We have to celebrate people who are willing to risk capital and expect a return for that.

[SPEAKER_00]: And we have to, we have to be teaching that.

[SPEAKER_00]: We have to teach that in our schools.

[SPEAKER_00]: And we have to teach that to our kids.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so we went, we went a stray there, I think.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just thinking maybe shifting gears just a little bit.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: We're coming up on an hour here, Bo, and appreciate your time, by the way.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm happy to go for another.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's so much.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I mean, I think there's probably more stuff that might come up around policy, but maybe shifting gears kind of the market.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like one thing I'm curious about is we've talked a lot about this.

[SPEAKER_01]: What's your take on downtown and just in the resale market right now in June?

[SPEAKER_01]: But I remember Bo called the downtown was the, was the buy.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I mean, I and I've we felt and feel the same way, but now I'm looking at like some of the prices on Marina side and some of the prices at like Shangri-La and like all these, you know, we're talking like between a thousand and eleven hundred a foot for waterfront.

[SPEAKER_00]: My thesis, my thesis is only like [SPEAKER_00]: come to fruition more.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I, you know, I, and, and had people, when you asked it on the last two times I was here, you know, I said, like investing downtown condos, look at the supremacy between what they're selling for today versus what we would have to deliver for, and that gaps only grown.

[SPEAKER_00]: I look at this all the time.

[SPEAKER_00]: You got units and marina side that kings land in area or whatever and they're overlooking the barrage tree bridge on the twenty first floor.

[SPEAKER_00]: They're bigger two bedrooms like we've built like five hundred and fifty square feet and they're like yeah thirteen hundred bucks a square foot and and I think it is and so for us to build that new we'd have to sell that for twenty eight hundred or three thousand dollars a square foot.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so that gap, that won't persist forever, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: The cost of delivering new is going to come down, but those unit that the values have to go up to, they just have to.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that it's been, it's been, you know, like we added an exodus out of downtown during COVID.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's obviously a lot of social issues in that have spread beyond downtown East Side, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: We have mental health issues, drug addiction issues, there's a lot and that's and that's that's trading and environment.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think that people have become less tolerant with and so they're leaving downtown or moving out or whatever.

[SPEAKER_00]: But downtown Vancouver is a pretty beautiful place and it's going to be there, you know, for the another [SPEAKER_00]: four hundred years or whatever the hell it is.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so I think that we have to believe in downtown over the long run and and I think it has a great buyer right now.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's like the pricing similar to it's just looking at something at what the Nimon Broadway.

[SPEAKER_02]: You're like, oh, downtown pricing over here.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like downtown still this spot.

[SPEAKER_02]: Let alone.

[SPEAKER_02]: Surrey or whatever else you're you're talking about.

[SPEAKER_00]: in real state they say by the rumor and sell the news what's the rumor something that you're monitoring that you think people should keep an eye on the rumor that's a good question I don't know what the rumor is I mean the rumor is watching what government does at this point [SPEAKER_00]: I guess that honestly is I think gonna create, which is crazy to think, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Like that where everything is resting on what's government's next move.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think because I don't know what else there is right now.

[SPEAKER_01]: Are there areas in Metro Vancouver you're excited about outside of downtown right now that you're kind of looking at saying like, okay, I think once we turn a switch back and I think there's gonna be a lot of activity coming to this area region.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, so we have a large master plank community in Port Moody's going to say you guys did really well at the launch, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like it was one of the most successful launches in Canada in twenty four.

[SPEAKER_00]: They just haven't been much new product coming online there.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I did.

[SPEAKER_00]: Port Moody's awesome.

[SPEAKER_00]: And people were super interested in the product that we were offering there.

[SPEAKER_00]: Long-term mass-planned communities can take ten to fourteen years to build out.

[SPEAKER_00]: Views of the inlet and a really great city.

[SPEAKER_00]: Previously, when I was at Oni, we did a large development there called Sutterbrook, which was, you know, did really well and was really well received at the time.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so, yeah, I'm pretty bullish on Port Moody.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's a really cool city and it's got a great vibe and great people and great community.

[SPEAKER_00]: Is it worth talking about the benefit of buying early on in a master plan community because it's like the inlet districts I don't want to turn this into a plug but it's worth kind of outlining exactly what the pioneer discount right so when you buy and I and I would say that in every instance so I've been involved in mass plan communities since start my career and in every instant when you bought in the first [SPEAKER_00]: phases of a master plan community that can be attended, you know, river districts probably like a twenty five year build out.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's it's you're it's pioneering because there's a year you're you're binding to a promise right that there's going to be all these amenities in the future and there's going to be these parks and walkways and all these buildings that look like this yet this is the first building that you're buying into and then there's going to be construction around you for the next ten years.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I would say that [SPEAKER_00]: Typically, those units are discounted to a degree at the beginning of a project.

[SPEAKER_00]: Master plan.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it is, you're buying in, you're getting a pioneer in your discount.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think I might know the answer to this, but one of your five kids approaches you and says, Dad, I want to make an investment in real estate in Metro Vancouver, where should I buy?

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I probably go, the quick thing that I go to is back to downtown.

[SPEAKER_00]: by a condo, you know, some of these buildings are fifteen to twenty years old now and you know that they're having special assessments and there's parquet leaks and there's these different different things going on and you got to you got to dig through that I think there's some buildings that are performing better than others and so you really you need to understand that but I think that's probably the quickest place that I would go if I needed to.

[SPEAKER_00]: There was a sort of a gun being held to my head.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's some, I think that there's going to be, there's some incredible opportunities on land and even assets.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm actually quite contrarian with office.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think that office will come back.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think, you know, BMO just took out three or four or five floors in our building and bent all downtown.

[SPEAKER_00]: And my understanding is they need more space already.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, like they're calling people back to work, whether it's three or four days a week and they're like, we need more space.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think that you're going to start to see that a bit more.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I think on the commercial investments side, you know, I think people should be looking at land, be looking at office assets for sure.

[SPEAKER_00]: Hard to value land right now, but there's some good deals.

[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe as a final question, Bo, what's one piece of advice you'd have for a seller right now, thinking of selling in the next, call it one to six months?

[SPEAKER_01]: And a lot of people are right now kind of struggling with questions around selling in this market.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I mean, I honestly say if you don't have to sell, don't sell, you know, you're seeing record levels of inventory.

[SPEAKER_00]: both pre-sale and resale markets.

[SPEAKER_00]: You're seeing record levels of available land.

[SPEAKER_00]: We have the most amount of quarter-ordered sales and receiverships we've seen in our market and well over a decade with decades.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so, yeah, it's just not a good time to sell if you don't have to.

[SPEAKER_00]: If you do have to sell, you've got to be realistic about the market.

[SPEAKER_00]: You just got to do your research but be realistic because there's a lot of [SPEAKER_00]: We look at a lot of things for sale and there's a lot of things that are just for sale and it's not at a realistic price given the circumstances and the timing.

[SPEAKER_00]: So quick advice is hold off if you can.

[SPEAKER_02]: All right.

[SPEAKER_02]: Fantastic.

[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe we'll leave it there, but we do have this segment called the five or five right part of the question in the show.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Question number one freebow.

[SPEAKER_01]: What's a book that you've read recently that you would recommend for listeners?

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm right now, I'm almost done men and rubber, which is the Harvey Firestone story.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's called men and rubber, the story of business or something like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Shane Parrish from the Knowledge Project podcast and foreign and report blog.

[SPEAKER_00]: He republished it or something.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's his number one recommended books fantastic book.

[SPEAKER_02]: And it's about fires still like the tires.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Fantastic.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is such a good book.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then demon copper head.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah, more on the on the fiction side of things.

[SPEAKER_00]: There was an excellent.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's an excellent book.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, those would be my.

[SPEAKER_02]: Those are good.

[SPEAKER_02]: In the last few years or since you've been on the show, maybe what new belief behavior or habit has most improved your life.

[SPEAKER_02]: Sailing.

[SPEAKER_00]: No, probably.

[SPEAKER_00]: I can answer this.

[SPEAKER_00]: I was just talking about this with an old friend on the weekend.

[SPEAKER_00]: Trying to surrender more.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm a control freak.

[SPEAKER_00]: Life is just getting thrown at you every single day in every which way.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think you kind of have to surrender to it, absorb it, and just work through.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's like every single thing is a lesson.

[SPEAKER_00]: And how do I, what's the why am I being taught this today?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, we're good.

[SPEAKER_02]: But especially in big picture even more so now than I feel like if we were having this conversation in ninety six or something we'd be like.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, man.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like this is so stable and beautiful and perfect.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm probably late.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, closer to yeah, a little bit late nineties, but yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's just surrendering just like, and he doesn't mean you don't fight.

[SPEAKER_00]: You don't advocate.

[SPEAKER_00]: You don't resist.

[SPEAKER_00]: But it's just like, okay, it is what it is.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, how are we going to go through this instead of this?

[SPEAKER_00]: I can't believe I'm waking up again.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is, you know, which I definitely was most of my life.

[SPEAKER_01]: What have you been binge-watching lately or a movie recommendation?

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I don't know.

[SPEAKER_00]: I was always a fan of Black Hawk down and there's a movie that just came out and I can't remember on what service or whatever was called warfare.

[SPEAKER_00]: Really, really well done.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, if you were a if you were in the Black Hawk Black Hawk down back in the, is it actually if is it?

[SPEAKER_02]: It's a film.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, okay series.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I'm I've been doing all kinds of series.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you know, I've become a bit of a Taylor Sheridan.

[SPEAKER_00]: Is that his name?

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, and he's got the white of the Yellowstone franchise and all that.

[SPEAKER_00]: The Yellowstone's great and everything, but landman with Billy Bob Thornton is just fantastic.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then I've become quite a fan of the Lioness special ops series.

[SPEAKER_00]: Just just, you know, [SPEAKER_00]: Is that him as well?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, he's he did.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's a car wheel.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's going to say that guy comes up with a series of three weeks.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, yeah, yeah, so I don't know.

[SPEAKER_02]: Those are fun to watch, but right on Adam, you're into mob land right now.

[SPEAKER_01]: So Neil Chris.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, my God.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think I told Neil about it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Full circle.

[SPEAKER_00]: Guy Ritchie and Tom Hardy, like how can you ever turn on this?

[SPEAKER_00]: He, that guy is a talent.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's a great show.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm almost, I think I'm about six deep, but I'm really hooked.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm a few of them.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think they've been out in Pierce Brosnan, like Pierce Brosnan, great.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think they've announced at one hell in Miran.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think they've announced there's going to be another season of that.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, that's awesome.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: What are you listening to, Bander music wise these days?

[SPEAKER_00]: A song that I actually, I feel like I've kind of, you know, sometimes you're listening to a tune and you just kind of hit rewind and listen to it again, everyone's so well.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's a song that my daughter actually showed me several years ago and it became one of my favorite songs.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's a sandy gold chasing shadows.

[SPEAKER_00]: They had great song.

[SPEAKER_00]: You familiar with sandy gold?

[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's originally from Brooklyn maybe.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, it's just super talented artist.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then the other songs I want to like my all-time favorites and I found myself listening to that the other day was the weight by the band.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's like it's just like the man that is literally the best song in the world.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: All right.

[SPEAKER_02]: Big band fans over here.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: There's a book.

[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, actually that's a good recommendation.

[SPEAKER_02]: There'll be Robertson's book.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I haven't read that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I've been Woodstock and the whole used to crash cars every weekend we close.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it was a [SPEAKER_02]: No, and even, oh, yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's a great book.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's a great book.

[SPEAKER_00]: Is it just Robbie Robertson like it is?

[SPEAKER_02]: It is.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's his basically a memoir.

[SPEAKER_00]: Was it the last Waltz?

[SPEAKER_00]: Because there's a show.

[SPEAKER_02]: No, that was the, yeah, the documentary with all the, with Bob Dylan.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'm going to really think this is like the, you know, growing up, he's part indigenous and Toronto.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then he goes by what he's like, [SPEAKER_02]: fifteen or sixteen when he goes and joins like the guys that are all boats seven like in Arkansas playing guitar with them and it's the whole story you know it's pretty good but the amount of the drugs and booze like it's pretty interesting they were the backup band for dealing with electric like it's it's pretty good yeah that's that's that's song the wait no brings tears to me I sometimes listen to that [SPEAKER_01]: Last World's also the Neil Young.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh yeah, the cocaine.

[SPEAKER_01]: The physical cocaine on YouTube.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's a work checking out.

[SPEAKER_02]: Last but not least, something you have purchased for under fifteen hundred dollars that's had a positive impact on your life since last time you were on the show.

[SPEAKER_02]: a weight vest.

[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_02]: Good.

[SPEAKER_02]: You're in good company.

[SPEAKER_02]: Adam, sir.

[SPEAKER_02]: Are you wearing this right now?

[SPEAKER_02]: One.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't use it.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's what looks like a wearing away.

[SPEAKER_00]: I've been using it.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's good.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: You're not doing like the gross drying.

[SPEAKER_00]: No, no, no, no.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not doing the gross drying with it.

[SPEAKER_00]: But it's like walk the dog.

[SPEAKER_00]: I work out with it on.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I'll do the whole workout.

[SPEAKER_00]: Holy, I don't know, the next level of events.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_00]: Man, I turned fifty in December.

[SPEAKER_00]: I like, I got to like, turn up everything for longevity here.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I just, I'm just going for it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Right on.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's great.

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, how can we find out more about what you're up to?

[SPEAKER_01]: And of course, West Group.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, as I said earlier, we've been pretty active on LinkedIn.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think you and Brad, right, are very, very active.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's just kind of found a bit of a space there.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's not to be honest, you know, you get a bit of a dopamine hit there when you do that, but it's not something like, I don't excited my team one day, I'm going to turn off my LinkedIn account because it's not something I [SPEAKER_00]: I'd rather be doing real estate development and wanting a business, right, and being a leader.

[SPEAKER_00]: And this advocacy, I think we do it more than we do real estate development.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't know that that's, that's where you can see what we're up to for the most part right now.

[SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, somebody out there's listening, if you're commenting on Reddit or are you doing it under your real name?

[SPEAKER_00]: You know what, I actually, I've, I've never commented on Reddit.

[SPEAKER_00]: I, I definitely go into the chats.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Read.

[SPEAKER_00]: I comment on LinkedIn.

[SPEAKER_02]: You might be wasting your time on Reddit, honestly.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: And we also, um, for the listeners, we put out a YouTube channel called, uh, homes don't just happen.

[SPEAKER_00]: Where we do the, uh, illustrated explainer videos of raising, we just put our recent one out on mass timber.

[SPEAKER_00]: So that's a really great sort of way to again back to education, trying to bridge that gap between reality and perception in terms of real estate housing construction development.

[SPEAKER_00]: So that's a really great way to see what we're up to as well as homes don't just happen.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's a great one for age and soliciting as well and huge for product knowledge.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Awesome.

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, well, thanks again for taking the time really appreciate it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you very much for having me.

[SPEAKER_01]: So there you have it folks are discussion with Beau Jarvis president and CEO of West Group.

[SPEAKER_01]: Always great having Beau on the show and man.

[SPEAKER_01]: Beau's an inspiration.

[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like you know he's he's just got back from a really awesome trip.

[SPEAKER_01]: He was telling us about five kids.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah seems to handle life really well and on top of that super bright guy.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and you know, he sent an email.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if he's talking about on the show, but I think he did.

[SPEAKER_02]: He said he wrote down the gold to take out greedy from greedy developer is kind of changing the storyline and he sent over something from the Toronto store.

[SPEAKER_02]: Star, I think, where it was greedy government as opposed to greedy developer.

[SPEAKER_02]: And it just makes you think [SPEAKER_02]: How important those stories, the stories we tell ourselves, how it impacts policy, investment, the way that we organize society is all based on narratives.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I think you know, both doing God's work, trying to change those.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, for sure.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I think this is all part of it, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: Like I feel like he's been on an ongoing media tour for a few years, kind of talking to everybody he can.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it is super important work because if you're trying to organize and share and help shape a narrative, that is actually a correct narrative.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's like, and I think that's the most wild thing is because I get lost in the comments sections every once in a while on Reddit or on, [SPEAKER_01]: Instagram or Facebook or wherever right LinkedIn and it's it is unbelievable how many people are commenting so passionately without actually truly understanding anything out.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's just it is very frustrating.

[SPEAKER_02]: But you know and you think like thinking about that that narrative [SPEAKER_02]: You know, Bo talked on the show about the cost of delivery crisis and there's that forty percent of the cost where there's there's some potentially some play there if if people get on board.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I think it makes a lot of sense, spending a lot of energy getting the word out.

[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, Kudos to Bo and and yeah, just I learned a lot also very, very stoked to hear about Gregor and the federal government right now.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's yeah, that was all positive.

[SPEAKER_01]: So no kidding me.

[SPEAKER_01]: Some good news there.

[SPEAKER_02]: What else do we have before we cut for the day out?

[SPEAKER_02]: And we have Vancouver Real Estate Podcast.com, head over to Vancouver Real Estate Podcast.com for things like the live wire.

[SPEAKER_02]: This is our weekly mail.

[SPEAKER_02]: We're sending out the episodes, we're sending out stats, the type of stats where you know, often the quiz questions come from to be honest.

[SPEAKER_02]: Also sales ratios where you can dig into different price bands, different neighborhoods, really dig into the details.

[SPEAKER_02]: Of course, we're heading into August, a slower period, but it's good to get started on learning a market if you're interested in getting involved in real estate.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's over Vancouver Real Estate Podcast.com and we also have, of course, an even better tool arguably.

[SPEAKER_02]: Private client services.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, Matt, because if you're not using PCS, you are standing still where the rest of us powerwalk by you get sold prices days on market.

[SPEAKER_01]: You basically get real-true level information for free.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's available at Vancouver Real Estate Podcast.com.

[SPEAKER_01]: All you have to do is head over, click by with us, sign up for your own free account.

[SPEAKER_01]: Lots of people taking advantage of this research tool right now.

[SPEAKER_01]: Honestly, I'm seeing like, it's funny, but I think Greg from Renee was talking about, you know, interesting tweet about kind of like, oh, LinkedIn, stabilization happening right now.

[SPEAKER_01]: Talk to a few people that, you know, like I feel like listings feel a little bit busier right now.

[SPEAKER_02]: Actually at the national level for sure, I feel like the narrative is changing and the markets are kind of shifting.

[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.

[SPEAKER_02]: So Toronto may be a little bit behind.

[SPEAKER_01]: And if there's a trade deal that comes out of this and like I mean, you could see potentially, you know, we've all been talking about wills the second half of the year be stronger than the first half [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to put my money on the second half.

[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.

[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, so anyways, there's, and I don't know how much more inventory we're going to be seeing this summer.

[SPEAKER_01]: No, it's going down, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: The inventory pushes is out there.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, and still, you know, it's funny, but you were saying like the sub-one-eight East fan, we were talking about that in the intro, is still, is still really busy in certain segments.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like there's always pockets, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: There, I've been, the markets were watching kind of continuously, you know, in Vancouver that that are still balanced.

[SPEAKER_01]: Inventors is brutal.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, no, when good and when good inventory comes up, for instance, over in Burnaby and in Brentwood, that new listing we just launched like, [SPEAKER_01]: You put mine in up.

[SPEAKER_02]: We're there.

[SPEAKER_01]: We're there in the overtime.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, a number of times.

[SPEAKER_02]: So it just speaks to those submarkets.

[SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely.

[SPEAKER_01]: So Matt, if people want to get in touch, how can they reach out seven seven eight eight four seven to eight five four or Matt at Vancouver real estate podcast.com, or you can try me at seven seven eight eight six six four five seven four or Adam at Vancouver real estate podcast.com.

[SPEAKER_01]: And of course, we got that coconut line info at Vancouver real estate podcast.com.

[SPEAKER_01]: We'll have a great week and we're back next week with another fantastic episode.

[SPEAKER_01]: Take care.

[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you for watching!