[SPEAKER_03]: Hello.

[SPEAKER_03]: Hello.

[SPEAKER_03]: Hello.

[SPEAKER_03]: This is the Vancouver Weather State podcast.

[SPEAKER_01]: And welcome back to Vancouver Real Estate podcast.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm your host, Adam Sclina.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm your other host, Matt Sclina.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm Matt host, but also realtors with Oakland Realty and downtown Vancouver.

[SPEAKER_01]: So excited for today.

[SPEAKER_01]: We've got Darrell Simpson back on the show.

[SPEAKER_01]: We of course, Darrell's the, well, force in the real estate world, but president of town line, which is no stranger to anybody that listens to this show.

[SPEAKER_01]: And Pascal's fan favorite.

[SPEAKER_01]: So fired up for this one.

[SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely.

[SPEAKER_02]: It was great having Darrell back on the program unvarnished.

[SPEAKER_02]: straight from the gut, uh, this is, uh, you got any more there?

[SPEAKER_01]: Unvarnished straight from the gut.

[SPEAKER_01]: This is, uh, doesn't pull any punch.

[SPEAKER_01]: Doesn't pull any punches.

[SPEAKER_01]: There's, uh, words and all.

[SPEAKER_01]: This is, uh, [SPEAKER_01]: What could you say?

[SPEAKER_01]: We have a pretty frank conversation.

[SPEAKER_02]: Frank conversation definitely tells it like it is and it's a great conversation for it.

[SPEAKER_02]: So excited that they're all back on the show.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, can't wait for this.

[SPEAKER_01]: Matt, couple things housekeeping items.

[SPEAKER_01]: Last week, we had a very positive feedback on our Remax survey report.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, a very good conversation around that.

[SPEAKER_01]: This week, we've got Darrell Simpson.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's right.

[SPEAKER_01]: Next week, we're talking about how to get a deal in this market as a buyer.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then the following, we're starting off the fall market.

[SPEAKER_02]: We've got some big guests coming.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, man, we've got them lined up.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's going to be a bang or September.

[SPEAKER_02]: Let's just put it that way.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't want to [SPEAKER_02]: Well, perennial guests, uh, friend and augments that's coming back in augments.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't want to release names, but as everyone knows, there were letters released.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_02]: One by a number of primarily academics on one side and one by the development community.

[SPEAKER_01]: All right.

[SPEAKER_02]: on the other with different ideas of how we need to move forward to build enough housing to get us out of this crisis in British Columbia.

[SPEAKER_02]: And let's just put it this way.

[SPEAKER_02]: We may have our next debate coming up.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, there might be a debate.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: I feel like we've already lined up a couple of guests.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's it's it's in the works dialogue over debate.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'd say, but the fireworks will be there.

[SPEAKER_02]: There's no question.

[SPEAKER_02]: So that's coming up in September and the host of other great guests.

[SPEAKER_02]: So stay tuned.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, can't wait for that.

[SPEAKER_01]: Matt, what have we got before we cut to our conversation with Darrell?

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, we got our quiz segmented.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I got another hot one for you.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's a quiz section that remains nameless and here's this week's question.

[SPEAKER_02]: Can't wait.

[SPEAKER_02]: And hopefully I say all these, there's a couple of words here.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not sure how to pronounce.

[SPEAKER_02]: So hopefully this works.

[SPEAKER_02]: Thomas Mueller will become the highest paid.

[SPEAKER_02]: He's now landed in Vancouver.

[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_02]: Thomas Mueller will become the highest paid player in Vancouver Whitecaps history in twenty twenty six year familiar with Thomas Mueller.

[SPEAKER_02]: I am.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_02]: earning about two times more than the previous record holder.

[SPEAKER_02]: However, compared to his Bayern Munich salary, he is still taking approximately what percentage pay cut to come to Vancouver.

[SPEAKER_02]: A, thirty percent, B, fifty percent, C, seventy percent, or D, ninety percent.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh man, this is tricky.

[SPEAKER_02]: It is tricky.

[SPEAKER_02]: He's a big deal.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Before we get to that, Adam, do you want to highlight the Zonda deal makers event?

[SPEAKER_02]: If you're in the real estate sector here in Vancouver, you're going to want to hear about this and you're going to want to go to this.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's called Vancouver Deal Makers.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's happening Tuesday, September, sixteenth, right in time for the fall market at the Fairmont Waterfront.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, Matt, this is a brand new event bringing together the region's top residential housing developers, builders and capital experts to break down what's really happening in the market where the deals are happening and what to expect heading in not not only to the fall, but right into twenty twenty six.

[SPEAKER_01]: If you listen to this show, you're going to know a lot of the speakers already, because there's Neil Crystal, who will be speaking his president, CEO, of course, of Pauligon Holmes, Bob Jarvis, past guest fan, favorite president and CEO of West Group properties, Cyrus Navabbi, who is president of Qualix landmark.

[SPEAKER_01]: And of course, guest from CBRE, Nikola Wealth, CIBC, and more.

[SPEAKER_01]: So expect a morning pact with market insights, strategic conversations.

[SPEAKER_01]: And of course, there's always great networking opportunities.

[SPEAKER_02]: So let me get this straight out of him.

[SPEAKER_02]: You can go here from the best and brightest in the business.

[SPEAKER_02]: And you can network with the best and brightest in the business.

[SPEAKER_01]: Huge value at for agents as well, like anybody in the industry, but I'm thinking agents for his life.

[SPEAKER_01]: And when you hear people like Neil Crystal or Bo Jarvis or Cyrus and Bobby, like these are people leading the industry mat.

[SPEAKER_01]: So when they talk, you should be listening.

[SPEAKER_02]: C and B scene, C and B scene at the Vancouver Dealmakers event Tuesday, September, sixteenth.

[SPEAKER_02]: What you want to do at them is you want to get a discount and the way to do that is you head over to dealmakers dot builder online dot com slash event slash Vancouver or simply Google Vancouver dealmakers builder magazine to registered now.

[SPEAKER_02]: Here's the key thing though, Adam promo code, VREP, twenty five.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's VREP, twenty five, and that's to save twenty five percent.

[SPEAKER_01]: off the ticket prices.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, sponsor filling up fast.

[SPEAKER_01]: So make sure you get your spot today.

[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, we'll probably see it there.

[SPEAKER_01]: So anyways, Matt, but before we get to our conversation with Darrell Matt, of course, we got to trivia question.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, right, the answer.

[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[SPEAKER_02]: So this is Thomas Muller, of course, celebrated football player, soccer player who is now the highest Vancouver Whitecaps earner in history.

[SPEAKER_02]: But he took a pay cut.

[SPEAKER_02]: Was it thirty percent?

[SPEAKER_02]: Fifty percent, seventy percent or ninety percent from his Bayern Munich salary last season.

[SPEAKER_01]: So Matt, I'm going to go with, oh man, I have no idea that I'm guessing the white caps can't quite pay what he's definitely getting paid less.

[SPEAKER_02]: I can confirm that.

[SPEAKER_02]: But Vancouver is a beautiful city, Adam.

[SPEAKER_02]: Man, but what percentage?

[SPEAKER_02]: Beautiful.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's the question.

[SPEAKER_02]: Fifty percent.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to go.

[SPEAKER_02]: Fifty percent pay cut out of the answer is seventy percent.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, Mike.

[SPEAKER_02]: Which makes me wonder what he's actually doing.

[SPEAKER_02]: Here's the explanation.

[SPEAKER_02]: He's going to be paid seven point five million dollars, okay, USD.

[SPEAKER_02]: But last year in Europe, he made twenty point five million euros.

[SPEAKER_02]: Wow.

[SPEAKER_02]: So seventy percent difference.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I don't follow this enough to understand the logic of the move, but it's an exciting time for Vancouver and it sounds like we got him at a steel.

[SPEAKER_02]: Wow.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's incredible.

[SPEAKER_01]: Really.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's still decent decent year.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: No, he's yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's too low to survive.

[SPEAKER_02]: He'll do fine.

[SPEAKER_02]: But he's here and we're all excited about it.

[SPEAKER_02]: But maybe we should cut to our talk with something we actually know about, which is real estate with Darrell Simpson, president of town.

[SPEAKER_02]: I love this one.

[UNKNOWN]: Thank you.

[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so we're here with Darrell Simpson.

[SPEAKER_01]: He is the president of Townline and Pascal's fan favorite.

[SPEAKER_01]: How you doing Darrell?

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm great.

[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks.

[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for taking the time today.

[SPEAKER_01]: Really appreciate you coming down.

[SPEAKER_01]: Nice to see you guys again.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: An annual thing for me.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's nice to be able to get here and share some ideas.

[SPEAKER_01]: If it's a little bit, you should come in the fall because as we should say, this office is like, it's basically in a sauna.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you guys are in shorts and t-shirts and I'm in a blazer and [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, one of us is a professional.

[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe for our listeners who are not familiar with the Aderola and haven't heard you on the show, can you tell us a little bit about yourself?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I've been on the business since ninety three.

[SPEAKER_00]: I spent some time in the brokerage world and went into the development world with Interwest and Intercorp in the mid nineties.

[SPEAKER_00]: joined the Bose family in late nineties left us had a great career and run with with those guys left there a couple years ago was there for twenty three years left there a couple years ago and doing a couple things since then and about a year and a half ago joined Rick Gillich and and our team at town line [SPEAKER_02]: I got a question about the nineties.

[SPEAKER_02]: How does this feel?

[SPEAKER_02]: How does this feel in relation to the nineties in your mind?

[SPEAKER_02]: Ninety three till now is this how what's the average age of your list or do you know?

[SPEAKER_00]: Do you have any information?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'll tell you a side.

[SPEAKER_00]: Do you know who listens this thing?

[SPEAKER_01]: We do know a lot of people, but yeah, I think we're, oh yeah, I think I don't have them in front of me, but I would say most of our listeners fall between the thirty to four.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, that is true.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, not a lot of boomers.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think more male than female.

[SPEAKER_02]: I believe.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, excuse male.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but it is I think increasingly or at least over the last few years feels like we have people that are [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, very interested in real estate or in the industry.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's definitely like I feel like a lot of people I talk to in the industry.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'll imagine a lot of realtor.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, a lot of realtors.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, great.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, anyway, sorry.

[SPEAKER_00]: So your question was the nineties.

[SPEAKER_00]: How does this feel?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, how does it feel in relation to the reason I asked to his listing because I give a bit of a frame or reference.

[SPEAKER_00]: So the nineties.

[SPEAKER_00]: The nineties was just, you know, coming, well, in the middle of and coming emerging out of the leaky condo crisis, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: Do we need to talk about what that was?

[SPEAKER_00]: No, I think every video knows that, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: So, so that was tough.

[SPEAKER_00]: There was no bid and there was no bid on new homes, a lot of lack of faith and developers ability to build what they said they were going to build, building codes and requirements were changing.

[SPEAKER_00]: and a general lack of consumer confidence.

[SPEAKER_00]: But that did go away.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then you had the dot com boom, late in the nineties around two thousand.

[SPEAKER_00]: A lot of immigration, a lot of new people coming to the country from Korea, Iran, certainly Hong Kong, and then mainland China.

[SPEAKER_00]: So you had a whole, hundreds of thousands of people coming to the country from other parts of the world that lifted us out of that.

[SPEAKER_00]: This feels [SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to sound catastrophic.

[SPEAKER_00]: This feels worse than that.

[SPEAKER_00]: It feels more challenging than that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Because right now, I think many of us are trying to figure out what the market looks like in two years.

[SPEAKER_00]: Not so much what the market looks like next month.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's really hard to call.

[SPEAKER_00]: But what the market looks like two years from now is getting tougher and tougher.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's different.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it feels in some ways a little more challenging.

[SPEAKER_00]: That being said, in nineteen ninety three, I was twenty three and didn't have a clue what was going on.

[SPEAKER_00]: So so maybe the people that were fifty five and ninety three and exactly what was going to happen in five.

[SPEAKER_00]: I certainly didn't.

[SPEAKER_02]: And when you say right now, it's getting tougher and tougher to to call twenty twenty seven twenty twenty eight.

[SPEAKER_02]: What what are the [SPEAKER_02]: And maybe this is the whole podcast, but what are the compounding factors that are making that tougher?

[SPEAKER_00]: I think, well, certainly declining population, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: So for the first time in Confederation, we will have a population that's lower next year this year than last year.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's never happened before.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's a big deal.

[SPEAKER_00]: So household formation demand for housing is everything in the housing growth, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: Obviously.

[SPEAKER_00]: So now some people who are listening to this will say, well, that's great.

[SPEAKER_00]: Because we want house prices to go down.

[SPEAKER_00]: We want fewer people in this country.

[SPEAKER_00]: We want less competition for the housing stock we have.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I can understand that desire and that maybe that concern that some people might have.

[SPEAKER_00]: But over the long term, that's not because for our country, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: We need investment in Canada.

[SPEAKER_00]: We need to be encouraging reasonable responsible levels of immigration.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that's very uncertain right now.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's a whole other maybe podcast, but I'm happy to talk about that.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I would say uncertainty around population growth.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's an issue.

[SPEAKER_00]: Uncertainty lack of predictability around government intervention in this industry is a thing now that certainly didn't exist in the United States.

[SPEAKER_00]: So government is involved.

[SPEAKER_00]: All three levels of government are involved heavily involved.

[SPEAKER_00]: in the creation of a housing unit.

[SPEAKER_00]: You had Bo Jarvis on recently, and I can't do a good job as he can of articulating all those challenges.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's incredibly smart guy in really up speed.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think he did a pretty good job of that.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm going to assume that people listening today probably listen to his.

[SPEAKER_00]: But the levers that government is pulling in our business is incredibly, makes it incredibly challenging to predict [SPEAKER_00]: and project what our investment into this business is going to be over the short and medium term.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so it's those, so basically uncertainty around government and uncertainty around population growth, which can be contributed to government.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, so the lack of a demand, let's talk about the condo business for a second.

[SPEAKER_00]: The lack of demand in the condo business right now is a reflection of people's, I think a couple of things.

[SPEAKER_00]: There, the fragility that exists amongst the consuming public for all things that are expensive right now, whether it's cars or real estate.

[SPEAKER_00]: And why is that happening?

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, it's, we have some self-inflicted wounds because of some of the government that we've elected and you've also got what's going on south of the border and all those things, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: And you can't, you can't overstate those things.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, so that's a challenge.

[SPEAKER_00]: But, you know, in terms of our government here, we've told foreigners, don't invest your money in our country.

[SPEAKER_00]: We don't want you.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's a problem.

[SPEAKER_00]: Should we be opening the floodgates and having unfettered access to our market without some condition and allowing those people to outcompete local people here?

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, we shouldn't.

[SPEAKER_00]: But there's gotta be a way of finding some sort of happy media in there.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's a problem.

[SPEAKER_00]: We've uninvited those guests to this market and I think over the long term we're going to regret that.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's interesting that I don't know if we've ever kind of framed it like this where, you know, we've talked a lot this year about uncertainty created by the tariffs.

[SPEAKER_02]: But we haven't talked so much about the uncertainty created [SPEAKER_02]: internally, like by our own elected officials, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: And when you think about like population specifically, it seemed so ludicrous that we let in what a million people in one year or however many it was.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like it was just like an absurd, like it was a cool idea was that it didn't seem to make any sense.

[SPEAKER_02]: And at the same time, [SPEAKER_02]: then to shut it off, like a hundred percent also doesn't make any sense.

[SPEAKER_02]: So it's confusing as to who's making these decisions and why, or not who's making them.

[SPEAKER_00]: I saw something the other day where there's this theory going around, I don't know how widely, conspiracy theory, I guess, that Justin Trudeau's intention was to get a Nobel Peace Prize by making Canada open to everybody and allowing unfettered immigration to the country.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's kind of interesting.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I don't want to I don't want to I don't want to further that before that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but it's okay.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, we're, you know, why do you have like what was what was going on?

[SPEAKER_00]: It's crazy, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: So so what I said earlier is moderate anticipated stable increased immigration in our country.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's really important.

[SPEAKER_02]: Do you, so we asked this a boat too, but just thinking of the new federal government and, you know, the shake up in the, in, at the provincial level, like what's your take?

[SPEAKER_02]: Do you think we're, is this like a moment at, say, let's just focus on the federal level where we're potentially, [SPEAKER_02]: course correcting and you know in two years we might have a lot more certainty around that with kind of a stable hand.

[SPEAKER_02]: I do.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm cautiously optimistic.

[SPEAKER_00]: It was in clearly carnies and incredibly intelligent guy and I think he is going to you know come to the same conclusion if he hasn't already come to it that we need to welcome people into this country.

[SPEAKER_00]: that we need to use more carrots, hopefully not sticks to promote the development of housing.

[SPEAKER_00]: And we're hearing positive signs in that direction.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think Gregor Robertson being responsible for the housing portfolio is a positive move, because I certainly don't know the CVs of all the ministers, but I would expect that given his [SPEAKER_00]: high degree of familiarity with housing in this region that positions him fairly well to to understand the portfolio across the country and certainly certainly allows him to understand the individual or sort of the more nuanced geographic challenges that we have here probably I would think I think that's a good thing [SPEAKER_01]: Do you think like the investment thesis in Vancouver is broken?

[SPEAKER_01]: Like when I say that I think about like for years we've talked about wall, you know, there's a soft moment, but the market's gonna rage back.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like do you think we're in this moment of [SPEAKER_01]: Are we still there?

[SPEAKER_01]: Is Vancouver always going to be the desirable place or has like the image of Canada and Vancouver changed?

[SPEAKER_00]: I think that I think that telling foreign people that they're not welcome to own assets in our country and in this region is a bad idea and I think we're feeling the effects of that and I think it may take some time.

[SPEAKER_00]: for us to put that behind us in the event that we do put that behind us.

[SPEAKER_00]: So if there's regulatory change again, and we're saying that foreign buyers can buy here, however, you need to do X, Y, and Z by new product, put it into a rental pool for five or ten years.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's ways I think of encouraging investment here that can benefit [SPEAKER_00]: that it can result in more housing stock being created without disadvantaging locals the way that that perhaps it disadvantaged them in the past.

[SPEAKER_00]: Sorry, so to get back to your question, I do think people who are, I'm sure you have these clients that they have a couple of investment condos.

[SPEAKER_00]: They've saved, they've invested, they've saved and invested in over time.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's their investment portfolio or that's the majority of their retirement portfolio.

[SPEAKER_00]: I do think those people are less [SPEAKER_00]: Desiris of owning investment real estate now, then they were three, four, five, ten years ago for sure.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's not, so I'm not crying the blues here when I say this, but it's not easy being a landlord.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's certainly not easy being a tenant either.

[SPEAKER_00]: But if you're a landlord and you have a bad tenant, it's a pretty tough experience, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: It's an easier way to get rid of your money, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: And in an inflationary environment, when you're losing money and you've got a fixed rate mortgage, you talk to a lot of landlords over the last few years who perhaps were in fixed rate mortgages, it's costing them money to be a landlord, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: So I think it's going to take a while for those people to forget how painful that's been.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I do remain confident that those people will come back, but it's not going to happen overnight.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's not going to happen overnight.

[SPEAKER_00]: Because the yields just aren't there.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, like, if you're buying your paying, paying eleven hundred dollars a square foot, twelve hundred dollars a square foot metronome today, the rents that you're getting that are really, they're not providing you with a decent annual return.

[SPEAKER_00]: And in fact, if we're honest with ourselves, they haven't for a decade.

[SPEAKER_00]: But people were buying it because they were buying it at a thirteen hundred and fifty dollars a square foot metropolitan thinking they were going to sell it for fourteen fifty and they were just parlaying a deposit right that's that's really why they're buying and if they could get some rent over the year to great but they weren't really looking at a return right a month that you're an annual return [SPEAKER_00]: on their invested capital, whereas now they definitely are.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's a, I mean, that's money was free, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: It just rates were so low for so long that people didn't really think about the value of their equity tied up and something.

[SPEAKER_00]: And now certainly they do.

[SPEAKER_00]: So the numbers have to work and right now, you know, they don't, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: But they will again, but they don't right now.

[SPEAKER_00]: What is an I'm sorry to interrupt you, but I'm talking about for an individual condo invest.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, we could talk about being a housing provider in the rental market, such as we are a housing provider in the condo market or talent market.

[SPEAKER_00]: Those are those are different challenges, which I'm happy to talk about, but for the individual investor, I think it's tough to be to have consumer confidence right now.

[SPEAKER_00]: Sure, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Let alone confidence in employment income and other investment income given all the other things we talked about a minute ago with [SPEAKER_00]: foreign trade and trade and balances and tariffs and all these other things, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Every day you wake up, there's a new reason to be anxious about something.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I think that for sure that factors into peoples.

[SPEAKER_02]: And what, like how long, so it's the interesting thing here is, you know, it will, it will make sense again in the future.

[SPEAKER_02]: But two years down the line, it's unclear what the market looks like, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: So like how, how's, how's, maybe I'll put it to you this way?

[SPEAKER_02]: As a president of townline, how do you navigate [SPEAKER_02]: this level of uncertainty in the marketplace?

[SPEAKER_02]: Like, D just shut up, shut up, shut up, shut up, isn't it?

[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely not.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we have a huge responsibility to the men and women who come to our office every day and create value for themselves and their families and for us.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, number one, that's my number one priority, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: To continue that, to grow that, in addition to growing the value of the investments that our owners make in the business.

[SPEAKER_00]: So that keeps me, it doesn't keep me awake at night, but it has some nights.

[SPEAKER_00]: So for us at townline, we're a little bit different than a lot of development companies in this region.

[SPEAKER_00]: And what I would also say is that I've stopped calling us a developer and started calling us a housing provider.

[SPEAKER_00]: The developer feels, and I listened to a bit of the Bose podcast that you had on earlier, you know, the greedy, he said he wants to take the word greedy.

[SPEAKER_00]: I totally agree with that.

[SPEAKER_00]: That being said, there's been a lot of greed in this business circle last, certainly in my career.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's been a lot of greed and, but it's really just profit taking.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's when the market allows you to make an additional profit, you're going to take it, of course you're going to take it.

[SPEAKER_00]: That gets seen as greed.

[SPEAKER_00]: But anyway, digress.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think of ourselves as housing providers.

[SPEAKER_00]: We provide housing in the non-market space and the significant partner with BC housing and other players in that world.

[SPEAKER_00]: We develop rental housing, market rental housing, and we develop condominium and town home product for sale.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we're sort of a long net spectrum.

[SPEAKER_00]: That allows us at this point in time to be involved in things that other traditional sort of orthodox development companies don't have the opportunity to [SPEAKER_00]: to play in.

[SPEAKER_00]: So that's a great hedge for a very challenging time.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so we're investing more time, more resources into those relationships in the non-market world to allow us to get that work.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that's lower margin work, basically fee for service work now, but it allows us to participate in that part of the housing spectrum, which makes us feel good.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it allows us to keep people employed and working and keep hammers.

[SPEAKER_02]: So, does that, do you see that, like, from a business standpoint, do you see that area as a, as a, as a growth area for townline?

[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I just seen, I saw a headline this morning and I didn't really read it, but it was, [SPEAKER_02]: something about the federal government creating some sort of new agency, Canada build, whatever it's called, is that somewhere, something that you're looking at like, okay, this is, this is the next five years potentially.

[SPEAKER_00]: For sure, but I mean, before liberals formed another government, we were, in fact, I think if you went back and listened to [SPEAKER_00]: Not that you're gonna do this because you're busy guys, but because I did this yesterday.

[SPEAKER_00]: I listened to the podcast I did a year and a half ago here a year and so I'm like, oh my god, what did I say last year?

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god, how do I look now?

[SPEAKER_00]: Anyways, what's the question again?

[SPEAKER_00]: Just about the growth in that [SPEAKER_00]: It's something that we've been intentional about investing in and wanting to be president for a long time, certainly for a recollection and for talent and for me now, for sure.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's an area that we very much need.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we're looking at projects in South Island.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're looking at projects in the interior BC.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're looking at a lot of projects here and trying to partner with BC housing and other people to make that happen.

[SPEAKER_00]: So for sure.

[SPEAKER_00]: What about market rental?

[SPEAKER_00]: Are you?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we have a handful of large market rental projects in our portfolio.

[SPEAKER_00]: land that we own, that we are trying to get into into position of putting a shovel in the ground.

[SPEAKER_00]: For the most part, those are still undergoing approvals right now, but that's challenging too.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's not easy and it's never been easy, but there's still so many ways that government is involved in tinkering around the edges to ensure that we don't make any money.

[SPEAKER_00]: And therefore, we're not gonna put a shovel in the crown, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: So we're fortunate that our acquisitions guys and team bought our land quite well.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I think we're a little bit better than most in some cases, but rents have moderated over the last year.

[SPEAKER_00]: They've softened, they are softening right now, and what we don't know is where that's gonna end.

[SPEAKER_00]: So rents have come off a little bit, but we know [SPEAKER_00]: that rents in four or five years when those projects are complete, if we can finance them and if we can attract the capital required and the amount of equity required to get the shovels in the ground, we know that those are going to be, that will be glad we did.

[SPEAKER_00]: We know that rents in twenty twenty nine and twenty thirty, you're going to justify the expense today.

[SPEAKER_00]: But right now, rents are a little soft, and softening.

[SPEAKER_01]: And does townline retain those buildings or do they sell them?

[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes, either.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Most of our buildings, we retain an interest.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and the overwhelming majority of those buildings, we retain an interest.

[SPEAKER_00]: And we, because we're a fully integrated firm, we do property management, rental management, and all that as well.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we, so we like to stay in the building.

[SPEAKER_00]: We like to steward that asset over the long term.

[SPEAKER_00]: We don't really want to give that up to somebody else.

[SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[SPEAKER_02]: You came in, you didn't come in.

[SPEAKER_02]: You shot us a text and you said, I think I should pull it up, but it was, I'll give you the just.

[SPEAKER_02]: Hey, is your private text?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, what's going on?

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: No, you basically said, hey, I'm, I think you might say that I'm pissed off and it didn't express what your pissed off.

[SPEAKER_00]: I go shoot my show.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I know.

[SPEAKER_00]: What do you pissed off about?

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I'm not pissed off.

[SPEAKER_00]: What do you think?

[SPEAKER_00]: It's a good reminder to not send text to people.

[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like we need to create access to housing in this region for people or home it's challenging.

[SPEAKER_00]: We need to find a way to do that.

[SPEAKER_00]: But we're tinkering around the edges.

[SPEAKER_00]: The reality is all levels of government contribute about depending on who you believe.

[SPEAKER_00]: Somewhere between thirty and forty percent of the cost of delivering a new home, I'm going to say it's thirty five percent.

[SPEAKER_00]: government needs to be out of the housing business.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think what we have we as an industry have been loads to say over the last decade or so is that government has very much been in the housing business.

[SPEAKER_00]: The amount of money that governments have extracted from this process and therefore layered onto the consuming public is incredible.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so when we hear about greedy developer, that bothers me, does I very proud of what we do?

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm very proud to be a housing provider.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm very proud that we employ hundreds of people at family supporting wages.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm very proud of the fact that our business contributes close to twenty percent of our provincial GDP.

[SPEAKER_00]: There are times when there have been outsized profits in this business.

[SPEAKER_00]: because the markets allowed us to do that as we talked about earlier.

[SPEAKER_00]: What's happened though, is that over time, we as an industry have allowed government to just take a little bit more here, take a little bit more there, add a little here, add a little there, and all the sudden we woke up, we're like, holy crap, government's taking a third.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's not so much that they're taking, they're not taking it from us, they're taking it from our tenants, they're taking it from our home buyers.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so then you think, well, where's all this money gone?

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, well, where is all this?

[SPEAKER_00]: Where is this public goodwill?

[SPEAKER_00]: Do we feel like are the streets cleaner?

[SPEAKER_00]: Are the boulevard's nicer?

[SPEAKER_00]: Do you feel more comfortable walking along the street today than you felt?

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's not like a politician.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to come across that way.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not campaigning for anything.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I think, God, it's crazy.

[SPEAKER_00]: So the quality of life [SPEAKER_00]: somewhat argue is deteriorating.

[SPEAKER_00]: At a time when governments have had their hand out and in the pockets of the people that have needed the housing, we as an industry or cast as the villains.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's quite, quite frankly, it's pretty easy for government to create housing affordability.

[SPEAKER_00]: Get out of the way.

[SPEAKER_00]: Get out of it.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's a, that's a bother.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know that.

[SPEAKER_00]: That may not have been what pissed me off that day, but but it does bother me.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like city Vancouver, I think, think.

[SPEAKER_00]: And the last ten years have collected like well and excess of half a billion dollars in CAC revenue, okay?

[SPEAKER_00]: Does your street feel safer?

[SPEAKER_00]: Does your garbage collect, is your garbage and recycling collected more often?

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that's the part of the scene, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: So I don't know.

[SPEAKER_00]: When I hear myself talk and these headphones you've got on me, that sounds like a grumpy old man.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't want to be that one.

[SPEAKER_01]: But that's it.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's not a sexy campaign, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: Like we fixed housing by getting out of the way.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, that's not a very, like, exactly.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think you're right.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's very tough.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think you're a hundred percent right.

[SPEAKER_00]: But like, you know, deferring DCLs, CACs, like allowing developers to to split them up and a third now, a third later.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, of course, that's helpful.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: decreasing hydroconnection fees and okay of course that's helpful but we're just like we're not remember succession you guys watch this every one Logan Roy and like one of the last episode he's getting mad at his kids he's like you're not serious [SPEAKER_02]: I think that's the best line of the show.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's the best.

[SPEAKER_02]: You're not serious people.

[SPEAKER_00]: You are not serious.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, what the hell are we talking about?

[SPEAKER_00]: Can I feel that way sometimes?

[SPEAKER_00]: I feel that way sometimes.

[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like the solutions are easier than a lot of, you know, many levels of government want us to believe they are and that the challenges in rolling that out.

[SPEAKER_00]: If there was a national housing ZAR, [SPEAKER_00]: And they pulled together all the provinces and all the mayors of major metropolitan cities and said, we want to get that number from thirty five percent to zero in the next two years.

[SPEAKER_00]: Come back figure out how you're going to do it.

[SPEAKER_00]: And let's assume that they were able to figure out how they were going to balance their budgets and make transparent to all their other property tax owners, how expensive it is to actually run a city.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's the other thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: Imagine they were able to do that.

[SPEAKER_00]: How do you, how do you feather that into the housing supply industry?

[SPEAKER_00]: Because if I bought a site a couple of years ago when I broke ground on it today, and tomorrow you tell me, good news, developer B, we've just saved, okay?

[SPEAKER_00]: That's really difficult to do, and well beyond my pay grade, but that's what needs to happen.

[SPEAKER_00]: People who are smarter than me, housing economists, Nobel Prize for a con.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think they do.

[SPEAKER_00]: So something like that needs to figure out how do we do that?

[SPEAKER_00]: We need to take this massive amount of cost and decouple it from the creation of a housing unit and start again.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think all this other stuff is making us feel good.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's important.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to take a, I guess I am taking away from it.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to take too much away from that, but like, we're not serious about this.

[SPEAKER_00]: If we were really serious about it, and we were really clear about what the objective is, we want to make housing more accessible and more affordable to people.

[SPEAKER_00]: How do you do that?

[SPEAKER_00]: How do you make housing more affordable?

[SPEAKER_00]: There's only, well, for the longest time, I always thought there was two ways, but there's actually a third, but there's primarily two ways of making housing more affordable.

[SPEAKER_00]: One, [SPEAKER_00]: You create growth and income relative to the cost of housing so that people can afford it.

[SPEAKER_00]: We as a country and we as a province are not very good at that.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're not very good at growing an economy.

[SPEAKER_00]: in creating increased wages for people, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: We're really not.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm looking for nods, you guys.

[SPEAKER_00]: You're nodding.

[SPEAKER_02]: No, I'm not.

[SPEAKER_02]: No, I'm not.

[SPEAKER_02]: The tracks or my tears are streaming on my face.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're not very good at that.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so we need to get back to that.

[SPEAKER_00]: We need to get back to growing our economy so that as real estate appreciates and value at a moderate pace, which is good for everybody, again, keyword being moderate.

[SPEAKER_00]: As real estate appreciates at a moderate pace, people can keep step with that.

[SPEAKER_00]: But the reality is people haven't been able to do that.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we need to grow the economy and grow value for grow, grow, real incomes for people.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's proven really difficult.

[SPEAKER_00]: The other way you create housing affordability is to make a cheaper.

[SPEAKER_00]: And the reality is that real estate is cheaper today than it was a couple years ago.

[SPEAKER_00]: So mission accomplished to a degree for provincial and federal government.

[SPEAKER_00]: They've made it cheaper.

[SPEAKER_00]: They've depressed the market.

[SPEAKER_02]: But it's still, but so real states cheaper if it exists.

[SPEAKER_02]: If it exists and also I'm just thinking there's still somebody goes through a presentation center and goes, okay.

[SPEAKER_02]: I can't afford this.

[SPEAKER_02]: There's still, I guess, with the interest rates at where they are, there's a disconnect between, or a cost of what is both called, a cost delivery.

[SPEAKER_02]: But I guess, I'm just thinking, is the answer then is that, thirty five percent, which is what we kind of talked about.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's the, if the presentation center exists, [SPEAKER_00]: that developer that paid to build that presentation center is burdened by all of those extractions and cost inputs, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: And you can't, that's a set earlier, really difficult to decouple that.

[SPEAKER_00]: But that's what needs to happen in some way.

[SPEAKER_00]: Unless there's a certain amount of profit available in that deal for a developer, it can't get financed anyways.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so they're not going to give you a construction loan unless you've got a certain amount of presales.

[SPEAKER_00]: at a certain value that covers a certain percentage of your total costs, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just thinking back to the greedy government idea.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I mean, I think, because one of the things I was thinking about over the last week or so was just what would happen to property taxes, if TCS, that went away.

[SPEAKER_01]: And this is like the biggest challenge, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: Because you think about, it kind of reminds me of property taxes in commercial spaces, like how they've just been cranking them up.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it's like, well, no one's going to world small smile in for the guy who owns the commercial building who's paying an exorbitant amount of money every year annually for property taxes.

[SPEAKER_01]: But the second you do any kind of percentage increase in for you lose elections.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but really, you lose elections, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, and we have low property taxes for the country, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: So where I thought you were going, if that is the distinction between being a commercial property owner and a residential property owner being governed by the residential Tensi Act, commercial property owners taking that tax increase and passing it along to the butcher and the people.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, exactly.

[SPEAKER_00]: Essentially, you can't do that.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no, sorry, and you're right, but I think more so what I was kind of getting at is, is easy to tax, like the narrative around greedy developer, like it's a process, let's tax the heck out of it, like politically, people don't really care.

[SPEAKER_01]: If developers are getting taxed.

[SPEAKER_00]: No, but I think the fundamental problem there is that people are learning this with tariffs in the States.

[SPEAKER_00]: The people that pay the tariff is the consumer.

[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.

[SPEAKER_00]: The people that pay the extractions for the cost of creating housing are the renter or the condominium one.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's just a clear state, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: And if those taxes were to go, if those cost inputs were to go away, and they were to spread all of that for sake and what, unquote, revenue, okay, or value.

[SPEAKER_00]: And they're put that back to people that are paying property taxes.

[SPEAKER_00]: There'd be, you know, there'd be mob in the streets, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, that's just it.

[SPEAKER_02]: But that's the, [SPEAKER_02]: That's the part where it's hard to get, it's hard to think how this plays out, how it changes.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, how it changes, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: Because there's literally zero political motivation to say, you know, we're going to do, we're going to take away all the community, humanity and DCCs and we're going to put it on existing property owners.

[SPEAKER_02]: A large percentage who are probably not in my backyard, folks anyway.

[SPEAKER_02]: And it's like, okay, we're going to build a, there's a tower going on, like I'm just thinking into our neighborhood where the, or my neighborhood where the towers are going up at Broadway Skytrain, which makes a lot of sense in my mind, but there's, you know, people are really concerned.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I think if you [SPEAKER_02]: You know, not only are you making moves like that, but then you're saying also your property taxes are going up like I don't even know what the percentage would be like in order to to guess that.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, like that would be.

[SPEAKER_00]: But that would be an interesting project for somebody in solder, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Very angry.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, very angry.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you wouldn't, you would not, your political career would be over.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think the other thing is, there's been a lot of time spent in the last number of decades, vilifying developers.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so it's very difficult to, it's like, yeah, it's very difficult to tell people just kidding.

[SPEAKER_00]: They weren't that bad.

[SPEAKER_00]: We need them and they're a partner in the solution.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's right.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's difficult to do that, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's to your point, it's sort of politically untenable or unsalable, but [SPEAKER_00]: Seven honest conversations.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's really going on, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: But I mean, thirty, thirty, five to forty percent going to the government's just it's there's got to be a better way.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, there's got these fees have to be reduced.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Think about we tax alcohol and tobacco.

[SPEAKER_00]: Things were trying to dissuade people from consuming because we're trying to dissuade people from consuming.

[SPEAKER_00]: And housing, we're trying to encourage it and trying to stimulate it.

[SPEAKER_00]: We do the same thing.

[SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's no sense.

[SPEAKER_02]: So then I guess I'm just, and maybe there's no kind of, I'm just trying to see the pathway forward here, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: Because, you know, at the start, you said, we're gonna get back to a place where, you know, and who knows when, but we're gonna get back to a place where, you know, a mom and pop investor by a condo and kind of the numbers probably work out a little better than they do now at some point, and it's gonna be, you know, old school real estate investing, [SPEAKER_02]: with current costs, current taxes on housing and the political climate that makes it almost impossible to change.

[SPEAKER_02]: How do we get there?

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if this is an answerable question.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think we have to have a reasonable amount of immigration.

[SPEAKER_00]: We have a reasonable amount of population growth in the country.

[SPEAKER_00]: We have to create a country that people feel comfortable investing in, not just investing in real estate, investing in all sorts, and all sectors.

[SPEAKER_00]: And people don't do that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Certainly with the Trudeau government, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: People were not investing in this country, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: People certainly, the foreign investment in this country, like sell to the floor, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: I was reading, I spoke to UDI at the start of the year at the annual housing forecast lunch, and I was doing a little bit of research around that.

[SPEAKER_00]: And used to be, I'm going to get this slightly wrong, but it used to be like ten years ago, about fifty percent of the Canada pension plan was invested domestically.

[SPEAKER_00]: five zero.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_00]: Half of it internationally.

[SPEAKER_02]: Do you know what I'm going with this is going to be a terrible stat, but yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it used to be that we invested half of our half of our candidate pension plan dollars in Canada.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Believe in our country.

[SPEAKER_00]: And half of it outside.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now it's one five.

[SPEAKER_00]: We invest fifteen percent of Canada pension fund dollars in the country and eighty five percent of them are outside of the country.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, no, these are independent people that are their job is destroyed.

[SPEAKER_00]: That money and grow that for the benefit of Canadians, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: They have a duty to do that.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that's the sum they're doing a great job.

[SPEAKER_00]: What does that tell you?

[SPEAKER_00]: That's a problem, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: That's a problem.

[SPEAKER_00]: They're not seeing the opportunities.

[SPEAKER_00]: No.

[SPEAKER_00]: No.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we need to create those opportunities, I guess, back to your question.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: We need to create those opportunities.

[SPEAKER_00]: We need to create job and income growth.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think we need to [SPEAKER_00]: I think we need to get serious about public safety and addiction and homelessness and mental health and incarceration and the illegal system.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's another podcast, but it's not certainly not my area of expertise, but we need to make people feel comfortable, more comfortable living in urban environments again.

[SPEAKER_02]: How in your mind, there is a public safety and maybe a public safety?

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, some people would call it a crisis, but how is that impacting the city and the environment?

[SPEAKER_02]: Everyone's calling it a crisis, isn't it?

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I think it is.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's a crisis.

[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, I'll call it a crisis.

[SPEAKER_00]: A friend of mine is the CEO of a very well-known charity that takes care of disadvantaged and homeless youth in BC.

[SPEAKER_00]: And she said the other day, which I thought was incredibly sort of remarkable, [SPEAKER_00]: You said, if every other month, a seven, forty seven full of four hundred people crash landed at YVR and I just happened, it just kept happening.

[SPEAKER_00]: Every other month, four hundred people died.

[SPEAKER_00]: We would be all over that and we'd find a problem.

[SPEAKER_00]: We'd solve that problem.

[SPEAKER_00]: We'd figure it out.

[SPEAKER_00]: But we have the equivalent of that in BC, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Like two hundred people a month dying.

[SPEAKER_00]: When are we back to my other car?

[SPEAKER_00]: Are we serious people?

[SPEAKER_00]: Like what the hell are we doing?

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: I was okay.

[SPEAKER_00]: It pisses me off.

[SPEAKER_00]: It really pisses me off actually.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's also, you know, and this is a chat GPT and Europe related.

[SPEAKER_02]: I went to Europe and I was walking around and I was like, man.

[SPEAKER_02]: He just don't have the open air drug market.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's like that's just not a thing.

[SPEAKER_02]: So chat GPT.

[SPEAKER_02]: I was like, what's the, you know, give me the history of how this, I can't remember the answer, but it's like, why?

[SPEAKER_02]: This is a great story.

[SPEAKER_02]: Why?

[SPEAKER_02]: Why?

[SPEAKER_02]: Just reach the chat GPT.

[SPEAKER_02]: Why?

[SPEAKER_02]: But the, you know, it's not three kilowatts.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: In any event though, it's obviously a West Coast issue primarily.

[SPEAKER_02]: Why is this?

[SPEAKER_02]: This isn't sane, and it's not happening in other places.

[SPEAKER_02]: And if you took somebody, you transported them from, you know, where I was in Europe and put them here, their heads would explode.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like what is going on?

[SPEAKER_00]: As they should.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think it's a bit of the boiling frog thing for us to.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: They should for us to.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's disgraceful.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think part of the problem, again, like I'm a real estate guy here talking about public health and addiction, and then I shouldn't be, but none of us should be talking.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's right.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I think where it sort of where it comes home to roost in our business is I think it often gets a lot, I think, bow talked about this actually if I'm not mistaken, a lot of problems get put at the feet of housing.

[SPEAKER_00]: Is it a housing is is our addiction problem issue in this part of the country?

[SPEAKER_00]: A housing problem for some people.

[SPEAKER_00]: It certainly is.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: Is it a mental health problem for some people?

[SPEAKER_00]: It certainly is.

[SPEAKER_00]: Is it a addiction problem for some people?

[SPEAKER_00]: It certainly is.

[SPEAKER_00]: And for some people, it's all of that.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I think it gets masked.

[SPEAKER_00]: Do we need to do a better job of providing housing for people that need it and can't provide the housing for themselves?

[SPEAKER_00]: One thousand percent.

[SPEAKER_00]: is our addiction and criminal justice problem here, a housing problem?

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think it can be, can it?

[SPEAKER_01]: No.

[SPEAKER_01]: And people get frustrated rightfully.

[SPEAKER_01]: So when you use, like, because I've just seen on Reddit and stuff where somebody will say, you know, there's a homeless person shooting up.

[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, but it's like almost interchangeable this idea of addiction and unhoused.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like you do know, I mean, where it's almost like we've now lumped.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_01]: Different.

[SPEAKER_00]: It was just a house.

[SPEAKER_00]: And he wouldn't be injecting drugs.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.

[SPEAKER_00]: It might help on the margin, but it's not going to solve that problem.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right?

[SPEAKER_01]: It's, it is.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's all gets, it gets very, very cloudy.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, there's all these stories now, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Last week, my son was driving to work.

[SPEAKER_00]: and came across as he called me at the end of the day and we talked to the end of the day.

[SPEAKER_00]: I was worked and I was good at it and I was good.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I saw my first dead body.

[SPEAKER_00]: Or said, body, what are you okay?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm okay.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm all right.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, be sure man.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like you're bringing it up to me.

[SPEAKER_00]: So you tell me you saw that body today's your nineteen usual.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's that's in my world.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's a very big deal.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: You say now.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm all right.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like Jesus.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so how many people who live in downtown Vancouver or in urban environments?

[SPEAKER_00]: could say they've done that probably more than you think.

[SPEAKER_00]: How many people have you walked past on the street that you was hopeless leaping that may not be right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Like it's terrifying.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_00]: Back to the, it was probably that level of thinking that caused me to, [SPEAKER_00]: be when we're texting to say, oh, maybe it was that.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, but terrible.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, like, your heart goes out to the people who have that problem, who have made a bad choice to take a drug, recreationally, whatever, and now they're addicted to it.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's terrifying and tragic and awful.

[SPEAKER_00]: We need to fix that.

[SPEAKER_00]: We need to find ways of giving them housing so they can get back on their feet.

[SPEAKER_00]: We need to have treatment in place for these people and not all this tokenism sort of BS, which I feel like, a lot of it's tokens and BS.

[SPEAKER_00]: Think about them.

[SPEAKER_00]: How we mobilize around COVID?

[SPEAKER_00]: Like what government could really do around COVID?

[SPEAKER_00]: Like shut the whole province down, shut the schools down, took over parking lots at Vancouver Community College, administered shots like like weed.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's another podcast, triaged around that, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Did we do all the right things?

[SPEAKER_00]: Probably not.

[SPEAKER_00]: It'll, well, went to the wrong side.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, probably.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, probably.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's totally to mobile.

[SPEAKER_02]: We swarmed it, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: What do we do with this?

[SPEAKER_00]: And the reality is, two hundred people roughly, two hundred people a month are dying for this.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's having a detrimental effect on those people's lives and their families lives, obviously.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's having a knock-on detrimental effect to a number of other people, business owners, employees, students.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I was just trying to say, they're way in.

[SPEAKER_02]: And it totally, I don't know if I, I don't think I said this on the podcast, but I was talking with an old client of mine, who's not from Canada, came to Vancouver in, eleven, twenty-twelfth tech guy, Land of Melcan honey, you know, he loves it.

[SPEAKER_02]: My god.

[SPEAKER_02]: And he's leaving.

[SPEAKER_02]: And his comment was, [SPEAKER_02]: He said he, somebody tried to stab him downtown.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, oh, he's like, yeah, I'm done.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, man, that feels like the last fifteen years to me.

[SPEAKER_02]: It was like this sort of upward trajectory where the sky was limit and somehow it's come to this point where, you know, guys that were in on that, that came fifteen years ago from all over the world are like, no, this is, you know, it was a good run, but we're done.

[SPEAKER_02]: And that's a sad spot to be in.

[SPEAKER_00]: Again, the worst part of this problem is the people who have all of it come to it.

[SPEAKER_00]: But there is a lot of collateral damage.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, this is I'm talking about.

[SPEAKER_00]: I know of course.

[SPEAKER_00]: But there's a lot of collateral damage around that we tend to not really acknowledge as much.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's one of them.

[SPEAKER_00]: We had a one of our safety officers on one of our sites last year.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, it was a eight or nine people on a construction site that would happen to be in an area that's, you know, a bit of a challenging area.

[SPEAKER_00]: This guy came to work every morning wanting to administer first aid, to construction, you know, sorry, you didn't want to administer first aid.

[SPEAKER_00]: But then the event that he had was his job.

[SPEAKER_00]: His job is to keep people safe on a construction site.

[SPEAKER_00]: And he's there, he's in his Narcanning people on the street trying to bring people back to life.

[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, that took us to control on him.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's terrible, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: And I mean, have we built a jail cell in this country in the last ten years to be able to deal with drug dealers?

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we're going all over the place now.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I actually tried to find that out one day.

[SPEAKER_00]: I went into a bit of a rabbit hole one night and like trying to, I looked at carceration rates and the best I could tell we haven't built a net new jail cell in this country in like ten years.

[SPEAKER_00]: Again, I'm not like a harsh, like, you know, you have to try as a police guy.

[SPEAKER_00]: But we have a problem with our criminal justice system is probably not functioning all that well.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm not that comfortable.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know it, but I was guessing.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's probably feels that way.

[SPEAKER_00]: It feels that way.

[SPEAKER_00]: It feels that way.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, so do we have jail cells to put people?

[SPEAKER_00]: Do we have enough judges?

[SPEAKER_00]: Do we have enough courts and court time?

[SPEAKER_00]: Do we will the prosecute people?

[SPEAKER_00]: Do we can we pull people in remand after they get arrested?

[SPEAKER_00]: Like all those things that contribute to this problem, I just [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, I feel like, again, we're not, there's so many serious people working in it every day, giving so much of their lives to try and make it better, notwithstanding that it feels like it's not getting any better.

[SPEAKER_00]: And your heart goes up with those people, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: The first responder, I mean, if you as a police officer dealing with this stuff, hearing some of the stories that he's able to tell, he doesn't tell me much, because it's confidential, but, you know, hearing these stories is just heart-wrenching, awful, anyway.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it makes the business of creating housing a really happy gratifying business, right, to take it back to this.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I do think we got, I think more of us need to be upset about the fact that we're not making enough traction here.

[SPEAKER_02]: All right, Darrell, on that challenging note, let's lighten it up a bit with a little real estate gossip here.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, Darrell and real estate, and this is Adam's question, but all of us get in real estate, they say by the rumor and sell the news.

[SPEAKER_02]: Have you heard that?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I have heard that, but I haven't heard it attributed to real estate.

[SPEAKER_00]: Wow.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, really?

[SPEAKER_02]: Adam might be the guy who attribute it to real estate.

[SPEAKER_02]: In real estate, they say buy the rumor and sell the news.

[SPEAKER_02]: What's the rumor?

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, there's something you are monitoring or thinking about that may impact our market.

[SPEAKER_02]: I have nothing to offer there.

[SPEAKER_00]: Are you digging for like some dirt or something?

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not digging for anything.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's right.

[SPEAKER_00]: You wrote the question.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well.

[SPEAKER_02]: No, no.

[SPEAKER_02]: Some sort of market tidbit that somebody can think about maybe, well, for example, areas of interest areas of opportunity.

[SPEAKER_01]: Here's an example.

[SPEAKER_01]: There's gossip that, you know, like the LRT line is coming in and layingly or something like that.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then by the time it actually hits the papers and it's confirmed and it's all there, you're selling.

[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean?

[SPEAKER_01]: So you buy on the room and you sell on the news.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, maybe it's not the right question.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I don't know anything about that specifically, but let me say this.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think not to be too down.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I do think the market's going to get a little worse before it's better.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay?

[SPEAKER_00]: And so let's not be too alarmed about that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, there's a lot of inventory in the market, more inventory than we've had ever in my career.

[SPEAKER_00]: And when I say inventory, I mean, standing inventory in new homes.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay?

[SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot of inventory there.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's going to work its way through the system and it will.

[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, I don't know if it's with it's rumored, but the truth is, the truth is that we're gonna have to work through that inventory until, and once we work that inventory, then the new home market can start to build itself up again.

[SPEAKER_00]: I would say, you know, we spent so much time, we as an industry spent so much time, and there's been so much attention paid to rental in the last few years, number of years, that's gonna change at some point.

[SPEAKER_00]: Kind of market will come back.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's going to be a little while.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's going to be a little longer than people think, but people will be very happy that they bought condos down.

[SPEAKER_00]: Didn't you guys say it last time?

[SPEAKER_00]: People are very happy that they bought condos down town for a thousand bucks square.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, you did.

[SPEAKER_02]: So let's say they started one mid-twenty-twenty-two.

[SPEAKER_02]: So we're kind of three, three years.

[SPEAKER_02]: In three years into this downturn, would you say?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Because I mean, it was white hot in twenty-one.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Bled into twenty-two.

[SPEAKER_02]: But then interest rates started going up for sure.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we're three or three years in.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, the reality is go back ten years.

[SPEAKER_00]: Go back to twenty fifteen.

[SPEAKER_00]: Market was surgery.

[SPEAKER_00]: Market was awesome.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Twenty five.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm thinking new home market.

[SPEAKER_00]: Not so much your guy like resale market, but pre-sale.

[SPEAKER_00]: It was easy.

[SPEAKER_02]: Twenty fifteen is very busy.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Twenty fifteen was good.

[SPEAKER_00]: Twenty sixteen is good.

[SPEAKER_00]: Twenty seventeen eighteen.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now you get foreign buyers tax first comes in.

[SPEAKER_00]: Market starts to come off.

[SPEAKER_00]: The market came off quite a bit if you remember.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Twenty eighteen nineteen.

[SPEAKER_00]: Then COVID hit.

[SPEAKER_00]: completely froze the market.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then COVID on thought was the right word there.

[SPEAKER_00]: Market popped on twenty one exploded.

[SPEAKER_00]: Never been hotter in the career that there was nine months there where anything sold at it, you know, kind of any price.

[SPEAKER_00]: And all things that go up must, you know, correct at some point.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so yeah, you're right.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's been a couple of years.

[SPEAKER_02]: So we've been three years, what do you think it's another three?

[SPEAKER_02]: Because we talked, we haven't, well, I think by the time this comes out, we'll have released Ben Myers, who we've talked to open consulting in Trump.

[SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, he was saying, he was saying, twenty twenty eight is when he's he's, but Toronto's in our spot in Vancouver.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, absolutely.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know what, what is interesting?

[SPEAKER_00]: I've found in the last, say last year.

[SPEAKER_00]: that often the investors in large rental projects here are an institutional capital, pension funds from, let's call it back east.

[SPEAKER_00]: Toronto is so challenging right now that they're looking to Vancouver relatively speaking, we actually look very good.

[SPEAKER_00]: So even though the market's not great, even though rental projects are tough to pencil right now, [SPEAKER_00]: I think the general belief is that Vancouver will recover much quicker than Toronto and they still have they have capital they need to find a yield for interesting and and I think I think you're going to see that Toronto I mean I hope it's not the case, but I think Toronto is going to be in a longer valley than we are.

[SPEAKER_00]: There are a lot more inventory to work through.

[SPEAKER_00]: They have default rates on condominium projects that are [SPEAKER_00]: higher than those people would expect, presumably he may have talked about that a bit.

[SPEAKER_00]: And our default rates here in Vancouver are very, very low for a whole bunch of reasons.

[SPEAKER_00]: We have hired up, we take higher deposits here.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's one of them.

[SPEAKER_00]: So there's more glue in that in that preset contract.

[SPEAKER_00]: But anyway, I think we're going to be a longer value there.

[SPEAKER_00]: And during that time, they have capital that they need to deploy that needs to find a yield.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think you're going to find that that investment into Vancouver comes a little earlier this earlier than it would be coming back there.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's a bright spot for sure.

[SPEAKER_00]: I've been because they're looking.

[SPEAKER_00]: Sorry.

[SPEAKER_01]: No, no, I'm not interrupt, but I've been thinking about that because I mean, I feel like a lot of people are building market rental, or at least, or putting in proposals or thinking about market rental.

[SPEAKER_01]: But that's actually good to hear that there's more institutional money potentially coming.

[SPEAKER_01]: Will that offset the amount of inventory that's coming on?

[SPEAKER_01]: Because presumably a lot of people are building this to likely to sell to an institution I would think.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like I wonder what happens with supply and demand for [SPEAKER_00]: I think we're oversupplied right now.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think it will be that way for a while.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to, the next year or two, it's going to feel like we have more supply than we thought we had.

[SPEAKER_00]: Very few projects are going to start this year and next, both rental and condo and in twenty nine thirty, we're going to be under supply again.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so this, that, that made me, when we first started talking, we're talking, you know, carrots and sticks and government intervening and then pulling out.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think they just need to get out of the way and let the free market understand those risks and accept those risks and work around them.

[SPEAKER_02]: But so if there's supply crunch in twenty twenty nine, that's like a six year.

[SPEAKER_02]: So that's a deep.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's a pretty deep.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I think, well, we're going to be over supply.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're, I don't think we're over supply.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we're over supply right now with affordable supply, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Got a lot of rental apartments that need five dollars of square foot or five, fifty of square foot rent.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's one thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: But we're under supplied in four dollar square foot, four, fifty square foot rents.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're slightly over supplied in five dollar foot rents.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that's because the cost inputs for all those projects demand that.

[SPEAKER_00]: And how does that work?

[SPEAKER_02]: So if you can't rent those, especially in the city of Vancouver because there's an empty homes tax rate, like the, how does that work?

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I don't know if at some point a developer would be compelled [SPEAKER_00]: They're going to do that sensitivity analysis.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm better off to just rent it at.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, twenty five hundred a month instead of twenty nine hundred a month and get it rented at some point that'll happen for some people that are in a pinch.

[SPEAKER_01]: That could take a long time and you and I've heard you say before I think it's something along the lines of like rental doesn't equate to affordable.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I've said that for a long time.

[SPEAKER_00]: We can flate affordability with rental and rent.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, affordability.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it doesn't always work.

[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't always work.

[SPEAKER_00]: A landlord's going to charge presumably what they can.

[SPEAKER_00]: No, you've got, if you're tenants not turning over, you can't increase the rent, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: But, but for sure, they're not, they're not the same thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think you're going to back to your question a few minutes ago about [SPEAKER_00]: the truth, and I don't know if it's a rumor or not.

[SPEAKER_02]: We have by the rumor and sell the news.

[SPEAKER_02]: Whatever that was.

[SPEAKER_02]: I was striking that from a kind of valid either question.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think you'll see.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think I just read these.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't write.

[SPEAKER_00]: Really?

[SPEAKER_00]: He's the brains of the operation.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm Chad GPD.

[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_00]: There've been so much attention paid to rental last summer years.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think you're going to find [SPEAKER_00]: developers going back to this city and say rental doesn't work and it's unlikely not going to work and I know we wanted to build rental and you wanted to build rental, but the only way for us to move this forward is to try and find a marketing condo and go there.

[SPEAKER_00]: As you might have, you might have equity required to build a rental tower as significantly higher.

[SPEAKER_00]: And if there's any modulation or moderation of federal government money through CMHC programs into the rental market, that will necessitate that'll push developers to go with the condo route because so much supplies we created under these incredibly attractive lucrative [SPEAKER_00]: beneficial programs the CMHC has had in place with last couple of years.

[SPEAKER_00]: So if that moderates at all under Carney, and I have no information suggested it would, but if it were to, that coupled with the amount of equity required to build an apartment building, I think you might find developers trying to find a way to unlock that project, and one of those ways may be to pivot back to Clondo.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's interesting, and I was thinking about this earlier, and I don't know if we talked about it, but the Vancouver thesis or so or is like what often happens is it seems like we've been in this loop for a very long time where the market may be softens, we don't create as much inventory.

[SPEAKER_01]: We're always kind of lagging behind on inventory, and then we see a demand shock, and then everything goes crazy, we see a huge run up in the market, and then we see maybe the market softened like something like we're in now, and we see a lot of housing is not created, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: The only thing difference now is the investors have like all but left the building.

[SPEAKER_01]: So do we need like I just I can a demand shock happen without the investors like it did you know what I mean because it's like because everyone's saying well we're going to be so under supply in twenty twenty nine but like and those are not up in what percentage of the market was investors absorbing that condo stock and how do we get them back or do you know [SPEAKER_00]: Well, the investors bought because they believed there was a tenant in four years of that unit.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, investors will buy when they believe that we have a responsible approach to immigration in the country and we're with continued to welcome the right people back into our country.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: That'll cause them to get off the sidelines.

[SPEAKER_00]: If if mortgage rates come down a bit, right, and create a little bit more value there, that'll happen.

[SPEAKER_00]: If we lift our restrictions somehow, moderate our restrictions somehow and foreign ownership and allow foreign buyers to buy here, provided that they buy new real estate and underserved areas, maybe, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: And if they put it into a rental pool, for example, I think that'll stimulate investment activity and a belief that [SPEAKER_00]: We as a country in twenty nine and twenty thirty are going to be performing better than we're performing now that we're back to where we were five six seven years ago where we're the darling of the G seven and sorry, I don't know if that's true or not.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure we weren't the darling of G seven.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: But we're in a better spot.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think so.

[SPEAKER_02]: So assuming, you know, we have this question about, you know, you have a niece looking for investment minded niece looking for [SPEAKER_02]: or a place, just with the kind of situation you've described here, and prefacing it with nobody can ever time the bottom.

[SPEAKER_02]: Would you tell your niece to buy today?

[SPEAKER_00]: If she was just starting right now, like if she was fully up to speed on what you wanted, what you're gonna for it, like if she was fully informed, yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think that, and I probably said this to you before.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: If you're buying for the short term, [SPEAKER_00]: Good luck.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: You're buying for the long term.

[SPEAKER_00]: It'll all be fine.

[SPEAKER_00]: You're buying for the medium term.

[SPEAKER_00]: There may be times when you feel like, ah, hot too early.

[SPEAKER_00]: As long as you're investing in real estate for the medium to long term, it'll all be fine.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think buying now is a perfectly okay.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like it's, it'll be okay.

[SPEAKER_00]: That didn't sound very good.

[SPEAKER_00]: Did it?

[SPEAKER_00]: It's perfect.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, like, well, it's the best time to buy in the last five years.

[SPEAKER_00]: No one can time them.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: No one can time the bottom market.

[SPEAKER_00]: I spent a few minutes earlier saying, I think it's going to get a little more challenging before it gets better.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I believe that.

[SPEAKER_00]: But if you really, what I also, what I also believe to be true is that the best product and the best value and the best deals get bought up first.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I suspect that anybody buying real estate that's going to hold it for ten years.

[SPEAKER_00]: If they buy it, this fall, they're going to be very happy they did.

[SPEAKER_00]: No question.

[SPEAKER_00]: No question.

[SPEAKER_00]: If they want to sell it in a year.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: But you shouldn't, you know, we shouldn't be buying real estate.

[SPEAKER_00]: No.

[SPEAKER_00]: Um, like we're buying Bitcoin.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not, but, you know, [SPEAKER_02]: He's, I don't think we've ever asked this question.

[SPEAKER_02]: I won't put it to, is townline excited about acquiring sites right now?

[SPEAKER_02]: Where is that confidential?

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_00]: No, no, no, I'm happy to, I mean, we're looking at a lot.

[SPEAKER_00]: As developers of our size and scale and breadth are it is it's very difficult.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's very difficult to make sense of a commercial listing right now.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's very difficult to make sense.

[SPEAKER_00]: There are fair number of distressed properties throughout Metro Vancouver with lenders who are involved that, you know, those are active and we're certainly looking at those.

[SPEAKER_00]: But a retail [SPEAKER_00]: development play right now is hard as hard to pencil for all the reasons I talked about earlier.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know where foreign buyers are going to be and I don't know if we're going to allow them in tears.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what government policy will be in place or not be in place in tears.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's really difficult.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think I use the story last year.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like our air bees are going to be Airbnb is going to be allowed in Metro Vancouver and five years probably not.

[SPEAKER_00]: Or will they be?

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, so the amount of intervention that government has in the business of providing housing makes it really difficult to project and anticipate what our cost base is going to be through three years out.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we're looking, but it's really difficult to make sense of things right now.

[SPEAKER_01]: Darryl, we have this segment called the five wire, five light-hearted questions.

[SPEAKER_01]: We're getting sick of my downstairs.

[SPEAKER_01]: We're already past an hour.

[SPEAKER_00]: Is that all this thing?

[SPEAKER_00]: I thought it was longer than that.

[SPEAKER_01]: No, that's the, that's the jewelry.

[SPEAKER_02]: We're trying to keep ours.

[SPEAKER_02]: We're like a sitcom.

[SPEAKER_00]: This has been a great sitcom.

[SPEAKER_01]: Question number one, one book that you've read recently that you'd recommend.

[SPEAKER_00]: I probably said this last.

[SPEAKER_00]: I haven't finished it.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm about three quarters away through it.

[SPEAKER_00]: The happiness hypothesis.

[SPEAKER_00]: Jonathan.

[SPEAKER_00]: Jonathan Hate.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh.

[SPEAKER_00]: AIDT.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Very interesting guy.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's on sort of, Bill Mar, Galois Panket.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: This he do is he the guy.

[SPEAKER_02]: He's done a bunch on social media.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: That is just current.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to say it's current thing like it's flipping, but that's is definitely, is the body worker on research that he's been working.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's been around that.

[SPEAKER_00]: The effect of the harm of social media on kids.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_02]: So it's actually a truck.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's crazy stuff.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, self harm and suicide rates for kids that are, you know, raising a cell phone.

[SPEAKER_00]: But anyway, this book is a couple of years old now and it talks about [SPEAKER_00]: It's talking about how to achieve happiness.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, ultimately, what as a species makes us happy and the pursuit of happiness versus pleasure and things of that, it's totally beyond my ability to fully comprehend truthfully.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it takes psychology, maybe it takes psychology eleven, but it's pretty interesting about like how you [SPEAKER_00]: You know, we've got a limbic brain on the end of the whole brain and you get your neocortex and you're trying to like the neocortex is trying to manage the limbic brain from, you know, not turning back into a gay person or a man or whatever.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's pretty good.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's pretty good.

[SPEAKER_00]: But that being said totally.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think he does a thing on dopamine too.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, God.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's crazy.

[SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, so that's, it's really interesting, but it's not, it doesn't keep you on the, you know, on the edge of your sea.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that's maybe why haven't finished it.

[SPEAKER_02]: In the last few years, this is another out of question.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, they believe behavior or habit is most improved your life.

[SPEAKER_02]: Since you've been on, since you've been on the show.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_00]: People who've worked closely with me, some of them would see me as a perfectionist.

[SPEAKER_00]: Other people were like, he's not a perfectionist at all, but there's things that I care deeply about and things that I'm happy to leave to somebody else.

[SPEAKER_00]: I broaden that spectrum of things that I'm that I'm happy to [SPEAKER_00]: leave to someone else.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's a reflection of the role I have now, like I just simply can't be can't be too deep into things in the way that I'm managing.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, for sure, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: So, so I've gotten more comfortable with saying, great.

[SPEAKER_00]: Even in my mind, if I think it's really good, but not great in the past, I was like, ah, what if we just like, [SPEAKER_00]: Tinkered here, tinkered there.

[SPEAKER_00]: I am doing less of that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe not as much of, but maybe not working as hard at that as my staff would like me to.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I would say, I would say deferring and allowing our team to do their good work is something that I'm trying to spend more time doing.

[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, and here's a Matt question.

[SPEAKER_01]: What's your binge watching lately?

[SPEAKER_01]: Just kidding.

[SPEAKER_00]: We are almost together.

[SPEAKER_00]: I haven't been watching anything lately, but the last one last one was mob land.

[SPEAKER_00]: Everybody talks about this.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm a American prime evil.

[SPEAKER_00]: See that.

[SPEAKER_00]: No.

[SPEAKER_02]: Really?

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, you'd like that.

[SPEAKER_02]: You'd like that.

[SPEAKER_02]: What is that on?

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't like that much, man.

[SPEAKER_00]: Don't seriously?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's so good.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's pretty good.

[SPEAKER_00]: So good.

[SPEAKER_00]: American prime evil.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's the story of the American Midwest and this woman with her child trying to get across.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's really good.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's vicious.

[SPEAKER_00]: It gets pretty dark.

[SPEAKER_00]: But it's really good.

[SPEAKER_00]: If you like, like, feel like, nineteen twenty three Yellowstone series.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's another one.

[SPEAKER_00]: We've just finished the second season.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's pretty good.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's I heard that's the best of the yellowstone like nineteen twenty three.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think so too.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: They're all they're all good, but that would say American prime people try that if you like mob land if you like yellowstone, you like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's not a mashup of those two by any means, but if you.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I, I get what you mean it up.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'm I'm excited.

[SPEAKER_02]: What have you been listening to lately?

[SPEAKER_02]: I think you're in the country last time we talked.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: And actually wasn't there just been listening to Morgan Wall and I was at the concert on Saturday with my family.

[SPEAKER_01]: I knew it.

[SPEAKER_01]: I knew you would be.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's actually also because I think you about two years ago or so you'd just gone to a concert with your kids and you were saying how awesome it was.

[SPEAKER_01]: And now you're now you're doing [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they agreed to come with us again.

[SPEAKER_00]: Nice.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it was great.

[SPEAKER_00]: It was awesome.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, my kids are in nineteen and twenty two.

[SPEAKER_00]: So the fact that they still want to hang over this and set it and I just like mission accomplished to degree.

[SPEAKER_00]: Was that in Vancouver since Seattle.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, right, everybody was down.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, there's a lot of people make her down there, but it was really great.

[SPEAKER_00]: It was it was really great.

[SPEAKER_00]: Really like a lot of [SPEAKER_00]: families and it was really really great positive.

[SPEAKER_00]: So so I listen to country that's that's sort of my go to playlist, but I knew you were gonna ask this right assumed you're gonna ask this.

[SPEAKER_00]: You haven't come up with any new questions.

[SPEAKER_02]: No, we came up with a few and they kind of went over like a lead balloon.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're still over there.

[SPEAKER_00]: What were the crappies?

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, God.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I don't know.

[SPEAKER_02]: And they were I will take credit for those.

[SPEAKER_02]: They were all mine.

[SPEAKER_02]: Where are they?

[SPEAKER_02]: I can't recall.

[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, it was like it was just.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, really?

[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_02]: We had to backlash.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, just straight backlash.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, so I was listening to a podcast here the day and this guy recommended it.

[SPEAKER_00]: He was a really, it was a really, downer podcast.

[SPEAKER_00]: I like this one.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just kidding.

[SPEAKER_00]: And he's like, you know, how do you tell someone to enjoy their life this year?

[SPEAKER_00]: Because he was talking about Trump and all this stuff.

[SPEAKER_00]: And he's like, listen to these artists.

[SPEAKER_00]: And the first artist he listened was this, or listed was this woman Eva Cassidy.

[SPEAKER_00]: And she's kind of like a Joan, like, [SPEAKER_01]: Don't you, Mitchell?

[SPEAKER_00]: Kind of.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: If you, if you go to Apple Music Essentials and listen to that, she does, it's really good.

[SPEAKER_00]: My kids don't really like it, which tells me it's probably not that cool, but it's she's incredibly talented.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I have that.

[SPEAKER_00]: I listen to that when I'm driving, it's pretty, it's very relaxing, but like in this incredible talent that I never heard of before.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, wow.

[SPEAKER_00]: Eva Cassidy.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: New for me.

[SPEAKER_00]: I text me and tell me if you like it.

[SPEAKER_00]: All right.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm pissed, they're all in this.

[SPEAKER_01]: at that recommendation.

[SPEAKER_01]: Last but not least, something that you've purchased for under fifteen hundred dollars that's had a positive impact on your life.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I knew you're going to ask this too.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: The tickets for the concert were like.

[SPEAKER_00]: more than that.

[SPEAKER_00]: I was trying to run the numbers on that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they were a little more than that for four tickets by the time you had the conversion.

[SPEAKER_00]: But let's let's say it was fifty hundred bucks.

[SPEAKER_00]: That I'm I've tried to spend I try to buy things that are experienced is now not totally things right.

[SPEAKER_00]: So that was a great, I mean, listen, it ended up being more than that with a hotel room and a t-shirt and a beer cozier, whatever.

[SPEAKER_00]: But it was awesome.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I keep hearing about, I don't know, it's like an Instagram trend.

[SPEAKER_01]: There's something I keep seeing the same video about how like kids, they remember all the family vacations.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's like what stands out in their mind over the years.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so my wife saw this.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so every time we're planning a vacation now, it's like, [SPEAKER_01]: spending way that's our justification is to spend.

[SPEAKER_01]: I know what else you're going to do.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's so much consumerism now and I'm a consumer.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I like spending money and those that sort of stuff now.

[SPEAKER_00]: Because as we argued last time, maybe doing our view.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's hard.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's only like a real jerk to say this, but like to spend fifty hundred bucks on something that's going to change your life.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we do have to opt that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: You said that last year.

[SPEAKER_00]: It was like five grams.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's like, this is a pre-inflation question.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

[SPEAKER_00]: I was business for you guys.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, fantastic.

[SPEAKER_01]: Are we still on the, well, yeah, no, we, yeah, I mean, actually we're not a bad year.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's interesting, but I mean, we've, we've over the years we've worked a lot with investors and now, I mean, we've always worked with end users and, you know, it's a lot of our clients that are families that are either moving up through the market, which is a great time to do that if you're [SPEAKER_01]: You know, say if you're in a townhouse and you want to go into the detached market, I mean, what is the perfect market for that, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: Totally.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and a lot of people downsizing as well, so kind of the same thing.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, but yeah, people moving through the market and it's been a year.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you know what I was saying, I was talking to, it's tough out there, but yeah, I think [SPEAKER_02]: grateful for our business right now.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's for sure.

[SPEAKER_00]: Tough because there's always people in the market.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: People getting married, people having kids to have people having different housing utility needs.

[SPEAKER_00]: So there's always movement, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Your challenges.

[SPEAKER_00]: ensuring that you're giving them good counsel.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's the biggest challenge right now.

[SPEAKER_00]: I still want to be able to talk to them a year from now.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I want them to know that I helped them make a good decision.

[SPEAKER_00]: Always.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Work with people for life.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: But it's interesting.

[SPEAKER_01]: They're definitely are kind of the log jam submarkets that are tough to sell.

[SPEAKER_01]: And right now, we're just a ton of inventory.

[SPEAKER_01]: So it's always kind of this.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's challenging in certain markets.

[SPEAKER_02]: And so what actually is an interesting thing that it's a very rare experience and I just had it as telling somebody this morning.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I have a client who bought, it has something on the contract right now and it is such a good deal that she's like almost backing up because she can't handle, like she's like, there's gotta be something on this.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh really?

[SPEAKER_02]: It's like we're trying to do diligence is like two to three times more intensive because we're trying to find out [SPEAKER_02]: a problem and I'm convinced at this point at least it's just the market like the really just motivated sellers what is it just buying it's a condo it's a two-bed condo want to say the sub market but a two-bed condo with a really nice view [SPEAKER_02]: And it is selling, it's cheaper than the last one bed that's sold in there.

[SPEAKER_02]: Really?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Amazing.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: So, yeah, it's like, she's like, well, they'll never accept this.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm not going to go up of this.

[SPEAKER_02]: And it's like, except it offered.

[SPEAKER_02]: She's like, okay, how do I get up?

[SPEAKER_02]: What have I got into?

[SPEAKER_02]: But you're like, this is an incredible deal.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like any incredible.

[SPEAKER_02]: There was a little tussle.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, a counter that she would feel good.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but it's like when's the last time you can see work with a buyer with that problem?

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, like the deal is too good.

[SPEAKER_00]: Are you guys spending much time in the multiplex stuff?

[SPEAKER_00]: It's one of the notes I was making last night in anticipation of this, like some of the things, that's one of the things that's very different in this market than a couple years ago.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like multi-plexes didn't, of course, they were around, but they weren't really around.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: The degree to which that could impact the delivery of conventional housing, low-rise townhouses and apartment high-resons, like that'll be interesting to see how that plays out.

[SPEAKER_00]: to see that.

[SPEAKER_01]: Burnaby, too, there's a lot of the larger lots where people can be like seven or eight count homes now.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so there's a lot of stuff like that that we've kind of helped people perform, but it's still a tricky time.

[SPEAKER_01]: Especially like, I mean, it's a tricky time for people that are not actually seasoned builders or developers, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: Because it's hard to make sense of, you know, the margins are, you know, we talked about this at the beginning of the show, but this idea of like, okay, sometimes the margins have been [SPEAKER_01]: have been big the profit margins and sometimes they're tight, but it always comes down to like risk and reward, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: Because at the end of the day, if the market softens further and you know, there's always somebody left holding the bag, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's a lot of risks still in a lot of these markets.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I would think people that are thinking about multiplex now, like construction costs have come off a bit, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Probably come off a little bit more.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I bet not so much in that side of the market because there's still a friend number houses under construction in the neighborhood of mine probably.

[SPEAKER_00]: It feels right.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's not a lot of holes being dug.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's not a lot of concrete being poured.

[SPEAKER_00]: So excavation costs and and contact foot numbers for concrete are going down big time.

[SPEAKER_00]: But the guy that's building a multiplex or renovating a house.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Here she's probably still quite busy.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so you haven't seen those construction costs come off yet.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think totally.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's interesting.

[SPEAKER_01]: You're seeing, I'm seeing a ton of them out there, though, now, like being built.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's, uh, it's listed, sort of.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, well, actually, and I'm trying to think the one, the one I was just thinking of is just, is so dramatically larger than the house next to it, but it's very jarring.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of like the, the Franken streets now, like it's like there's all these different, like it's, you know, it's almost like the new Vancouver special or something.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, on steroids and they don't, they haven't seen one that I thought was really good looking yet.

[SPEAKER_00]: So in my mind, what that means is that you're going to see a significant premium.

[SPEAKER_00]: for a host that's mid-block totally.

[SPEAKER_00]: With two nice houses on either side of it, there were developed in the last five years that doesn't make a economic sense to tear down.

[SPEAKER_00]: So if you have certainty over what your neighbors are like, both left and right and behind you on the lane, that host is going to sell for a premium relative and a host that doesn't have that insulation around it.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, interesting.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's smart.

[SPEAKER_00]: Because you don't really [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, there's just so much uncertainty.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's one thing to, it used to be that you'd, you know, you'd buy a house, you'd buy a house A and you'd like the fact that house B beside it was a bit of a tear down because you knew somebody was going to build a nice house there and make a block nicer.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: But now the inverse has happened.

[SPEAKER_00]: Someone's going to buy that and put six units on it and you're not going to have any, you're going to have, you're not going to be sunlight in your backyard anymore.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like these are things you haven't dealt with.

[SPEAKER_01]: A friend of mine made the same same argument for like for denser single family neighborhoods as being like he's like these are going to [SPEAKER_01]: end up being in a better situation just because like when you're dealing with like a whole say area and like whatever north burner be where you've got a ton of seven thousand square foot lots up like it's coming and it's coming quick right yeah meanwhile if you're if you're in like parts of the these side where it's like you got a postage stamp that you can't do much more than what we're already doing what you need an assembly do you need an assembly or what that's right so it's [SPEAKER_01]: Anything that kind of maintains the single-family character of the neighborhood.

[SPEAKER_00]: Very interesting time.

[SPEAKER_00]: When we built our house, we built our house when nineteen years ago.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I remember how much trouble the building inspector put us through about our crawlspace.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we had a crawlspace, you know, so they made you put boulders in it.

[SPEAKER_00]: so that they knew so that you couldn't dig it out later in three additional little boy.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: And now they're like throwing density, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: It's amazing how.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: How maybe maybe the point there is how out of step government really is.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: The oscillation back and forth.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then also how the leg.

[SPEAKER_02]: The leg.

[SPEAKER_02]: The leg.

[SPEAKER_02]: The leg is a little traumatic.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, totally.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I'm glad you guys are managing to keep us mild on your face in a challenging market.

[SPEAKER_00]: Nice to see you guys again.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: No, thanks for coming down and likewise, I guess.

[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for much, guys.

[SPEAKER_02]: All right.

[SPEAKER_02]: Take care.

[SPEAKER_02]: So there you have it folks are discussion with President of Townline Darrell Simpson.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I really enjoyed that conversation with Darrell Matt always great having them in the studio.

[SPEAKER_01]: Great conversations before and after we push record.

[SPEAKER_02]: I cannot believe we've already done the intro and we can't go back.

[SPEAKER_02]: But after Darrell was on the show, friend of the show, Pete Ryzener sent over a video of Darrell.

[SPEAKER_02]: heading up a band called the celloids where Pete Ryster was actually on keys turns out Darrell Simpson has an incredible set of pipes.

[SPEAKER_01]: So who knew that Pete knew how to tickle the ivories and then Darrell comes out [SPEAKER_02]: just like he's like a straight I think he was new he's a he was he's a big country guy but no this is like eighties this is like eighties kind of death leopard kind of songs I don't know if he actually is doing death leopard but he was kind of like that vibe like eighties rock kind of pop rock kind of like what you'd expect like a rock [SPEAKER_01]: cover band it like a club.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, and but let's just put it this way.

[SPEAKER_02]: Darrell Simpson owns the stage.

[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe not surprising, but he's confident up there and he pulls it off.

[SPEAKER_02]: It was crazy.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's on YouTube.

[SPEAKER_02]: The sell outs.

[SPEAKER_02]: Check it out.

[SPEAKER_02]: Really great name.

[SPEAKER_02]: All right Matt.

[SPEAKER_01]: What else do we got before we cut for the day?

[SPEAKER_02]: What else do we have?

[SPEAKER_02]: We have Vancouver real estate podcast.com.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's our website where all things real estate related live head over to Vancouver real estate podcast.com for things like the live wire.

[SPEAKER_02]: This is our weekly mailer where you get deal the month stats before anyone else different types of stats sales ratios were coming up on the fall market.

[SPEAKER_02]: So it's a good time to to be [SPEAKER_02]: tapped into not only the neighborhood you're interested in, but the price band because yes, you got to know what's going on in those sub-markets.

[SPEAKER_02]: We also have of course if you want to get real dialed in private client services.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, Matt, if you are not using PCS, you are standing still or the rest of us power walk by you get sold prices days on market basically get real-term level information for [SPEAKER_01]: free.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's available at your fingertips over at Vancouver Real Estate Podcast.com.

[SPEAKER_01]: Just click by with us, best way to monitor the market, best way to check out what's happening with inventory, or actually I should say dial in on your sub market, your really specific geographical area of interest.

[SPEAKER_01]: So you're not going to miss a listing.

[SPEAKER_01]: This is really the best way to do it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Head over to Vancouver Real Estate Podcast.com and Matt, how can people find out more about what you're up to and get in touch with you?

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, you can check out my LinkedIn page now just kidding.

[SPEAKER_02]: I call me anytime seven seven eight eight four seven two eight five four or Matt at Vancouver real estate podcast calm where you can try me at seven seven eight six six four five seven four or Adam at Vancouver real estate podcast calm and we also got that non partisan line info at Vancouver real estate podcast calm will have a great week and that we're back here next week with another great episode.

[SPEAKER_01]: Take care.

[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you guys for saving for radio.

[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you.