[SPEAKER_00]: Hello, and welcome to Future Projection.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is episode 142 of the show.

[SPEAKER_00]: I am Carlos Clouser, joined us always by Ben Badler.

[SPEAKER_00]: What's going on, Ben?

[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, doing.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm good Carlos, did you see the news at a Tennessee that Kurt Shilling said he's interested in taking over for Tony Vitello as a head coach?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, shoot, maybe I'll throw my head in the ring for just taking all comeers.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I did see that news.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's kind of a joke, but I am really curious to see who's going to take over for Tony Vitello because I think [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, whoever is taking over that job is going to have more of an impact on whether or not Tennessee is a good baseball team than Tony Vaitela himself with the giants.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm really more interested in the college side of this than anything, but I guess it is fun to see all of the coverage and sort of the talk about Tony's historic move from college to the majors.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we may as well just stop, and we want to talk some draft today as well, but we may as well start with the Vaitela news here, since we're kicking it off.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there's definitely a lot of buzz, too.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, a, obviously, who's going to take over as a head coach at Tennessee.

[SPEAKER_01]: They vary, I would say, notably, or can speak recently, to not name Josh Elander as their new head coach, so Frank Anderson, their pitching coach and all of the players and former players, probably not coincidentally, where [SPEAKER_01]: all at the same time publicly advocating for Elander to get the job, which probably makes the most sense because if you promote, or if you bring in somebody outside, which I suspect might happen now that they just didn't name Elander the head coach.

[SPEAKER_01]: You, depending what happens with him, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: And Tennessee has, they have a pretty good recruiting class for next year.

[SPEAKER_01]: uh...

they have a very strong one shaping up so far for twenty twenty seven there's nothing tie in those players tend to see right so they they could get those classes rated and that's been a lot of talk over you know the lander is the right for the coordinator currently for the program which is i think we're here and gets a lot of credit for a lot of the recruiting they've done especially with hitters but just all over [SPEAKER_01]: uh...

the place and obviously to me if i tell you plays a big role in like yeah you know i think a lot of players want to go and be with e-lander as well players want to go and play for tony v he's not there anymore [SPEAKER_01]: if they bring it an outside hire, yeah, it's gonna, yeah, it's just things up.

[SPEAKER_00]: I saw someone make the point that like, if you make Elander your next head coach and it doesn't go well, like no one is going to blame you for that whereas if you bring someone in from outside the program and it doesn't go well, you're gonna get a lot of blame so like, Elander feels like the low risk choice in a lot of ways, because it's just such a natural, [SPEAKER_00]: fire to make, but I mean, the Tennessee job opening is one of the most coveted jobs in the sport.

[SPEAKER_00]: So you're going to have a ton of really qualified, potentially strong, exciting candidates for the position.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I think obviously like Tennessee losing, Tony, if I tell it was a huge blow to the program regardless of who it winds up being.

[SPEAKER_00]: like replacing him, but I do think it makes sense to sort of have a pretty expanded search and to make sure you're getting the absolute best, but it's candidate for the job, but I mean, I don't have any specific insight.

[SPEAKER_00]: I would encourage people to follow Jacob Rudner with us at Basel America, who's done just a tremendous job reporting on the Tony Vittila story.

[SPEAKER_00]: In general, is already all over the sort of the leaders in the clubhouse for the Tennessee job, and it's just been all over the [SPEAKER_00]: the college baseball news landscape in general.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we've got a lot of coverage on the site if you want more insight from our national college reporter, Jacob Rudner, but it's fun to watch from my perspective.

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, we saw Texas A&M who was coming off the run in Omaha.

[SPEAKER_01]: Their coach Jim Schloss and I go left to go to Texas and they just said, well, all the players want to them to promote Michael early.

[SPEAKER_01]: He was a very highly regarded assistant for them.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, promoted him and we Texas A&M was our number one preseason team last year and they they had an absolute disaster.

[SPEAKER_01]: Obviously, who knows what's going to happen with the, you know, Michael early long term.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I was just talking about with Peter Flaherty, who also does college and draft stuff for us on a podcast, Pride Hop, and on this one, and like we're just looking at the prospects that the Texas A&M has in the 26th class.

[SPEAKER_00]: They have three guys that we think could be legitimate for Trump picks.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it does feel like if it doesn't happen for them this coming year.

[SPEAKER_00]: There might be a lot of questions.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I think TechSame is going to like have a chance to bounce back.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think their squad still looks pretty good on paper.

[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, they certainly fell short of the massive expectations that we and really everyone else in college baseball had for them in the 2025 season.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I'm sure that is a factor or not lost at least on the decision making that like director at Tennessee saying, hmm.

[SPEAKER_00]: just because the players want this guy right doesn't necessarily mean right that's the right pick but anyway I mean it would make all the sense in the world for a team with the players who are currently there to prefer the coaching staff in house like those are [SPEAKER_00]: people who brought them into the program in the first place.

[SPEAKER_00]: Those are the people they've been comfortable with.

[SPEAKER_00]: If a new coach is coming in, there are going to be lots of questions about, okay, like, what is my role here?

[SPEAKER_00]: Is this coach going to bring in some of his guys?

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, it's very easy for...

[SPEAKER_00]: For the, again, unless you're like, you don't have a very well-run program.

[SPEAKER_00]: If the players are actively running against some of the top assistants to get the job, but you probably have a lot of other issues, but makes the time to sense those guys came to Tennessee in large part because of what in Linder had done and what that's all had done.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it makes sense that the players are kind of foreign in-house replacement.

[SPEAKER_01]: What do you think about it from the Giants perspective?

[SPEAKER_01]: I know we had [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, I think when Andrew Baggardly of the athletic first had the report linking Vitello to the giants we talked for I think a couple hours on it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Probably more than anyone should be spending time on it, but yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, as a, um, [SPEAKER_00]: As a UNC alum who's currently watching the Bill Belichick Madness Unfold, I don't think it's going to be as chaotic, obviously, is what's happened in Chapel Hill, but I do think that the media attention surrounding Tony Vitello's hiring is going to be bigger than his actual impact on the team.

[SPEAKER_00]: It just comes down to like, I just frankly don't think [SPEAKER_00]: impact their teams to the degree that head coaches do.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think if the Giants have a really strong roster of good players and players take steps forward and Buster Posey brings in more talent, team will be good.

[SPEAKER_01]: brain failure, you'll probably have a bigger impact than Tony Vitalo.

[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.

[SPEAKER_00]: So like you could, I'm not to say that you just bring in anyone.

[SPEAKER_00]: There are obviously skills that are required, but I just think that the difference at the best manager in baseball makes for your win-lost totals versus the worst manager in baseball makes for your win-lost totals is almost negligible.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like a good reliever, I think would be more important to have on your team than like the best manager.

[SPEAKER_00]: I just think ultimately, [SPEAKER_00]: You want to have a good manager.

[SPEAKER_00]: Obviously you want someone who's going to get the players on the same page, keep everyone happy, deal with the media, like make the best tactical decisions you can make throughout the season they end in the playoffs.

[SPEAKER_00]: You want all of those things, but ultimately it's very easy for us.

[SPEAKER_00]: at the end of the day, you need to have a team of talent to players and no quality of manager is going to get the bad news bears into the playoffs.

[SPEAKER_00]: You just need good talent.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we'll see what happens.

[SPEAKER_00]: I hope he has success.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think it would be.

[SPEAKER_00]: it would be good for the college game certainly to see a really talented head coach go from the college ranks to the majors and have some success but ultimately there just comes back to me philosophically like I don't think the manager impacts success at a significant degree.

[SPEAKER_01]: I would agree that the key for Tony, if I tell you in terms of determining what will ultimately make him a successful, majorly manager will be, does he have good players?

[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[SPEAKER_01]: And he's not, he's not responsible for that now, obviously.

[SPEAKER_01]: The way he is a Tennessee, where he's won at the end of the day, making the call and recruiting decisions and is in charge of their development.

[SPEAKER_01]: Whereas that's not, not his role with a giant.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's not any manager's role in the modern game, but I love the Ier for the giants.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think this is overdue, not going to like reiterate every point.

[SPEAKER_01]: I made a couple episodes ago, but more broadly speaking, I think just we as an industry, we weigh over index on hiring former major league players as managers.

[SPEAKER_01]: There's no reason that having the physical skill set that is required to play major league baseball should be a prerequisite for getting hired as an Emily manager and yet.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's, I was looking, it's like two thirds of the managers in the game today are former players.

[SPEAKER_01]: Former players.

[SPEAKER_00]: What if someone heard you say that and their pushback was, hey, I agree with you, but most MLB players inherently will simply have more respect for someone who's been there and done it trying to manage the team versus someone coming in and not having that experience.

[SPEAKER_00]: Would you, would you, would you see any ground to that argument?

[SPEAKER_01]: I would say why don't you go upstairs if I'm telling you if I tell you I'd say why don't you go upstairs and ask my boss Hall of Fame catcher Buster Posey who hired me see what he thinks like it's not every manager would be able to point to a president or GM who had a playing background as well.

[SPEAKER_00]: All right, in this case sure.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think in other sports we see it all the time.

[SPEAKER_01]: in the NBA.

[SPEAKER_01]: Those guys are brilliant minds in their sports.

[SPEAKER_01]: I know I don't mean to like bring them up as a UNC football fan.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I mean, call me a UNC football fan in particular.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, it may be a little bit of a stress there for them.

[SPEAKER_00]: Does that have some exactly breaking down the film?

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I went to I went to UMass, so I'm not going to talk a football or brag about my football team, but those coaches, I don't think lack respect from their players just because they never played in the NFL or the NBA.

[SPEAKER_01]: And look, like having played in the major leagues is an experience that has value right when you transition to an offield career Terry Francona correct counsel you guys played in the big league so guys are good managers but great baseball minds great coaches great managers great leaders they can come from all.

[SPEAKER_01]: different types of backgrounds.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.

[SPEAKER_00]: I agree.

[SPEAKER_00]: Um, the one thing I'm, I'm kind of curious if you have a thought on, I must say interested to see how this pans out, but like Tony by Tellers teams have a very specific style, uh, a personality to them.

[SPEAKER_00]: Would you expect the giants themselves to take on a little bit more of that Tony by Tello edge?

[SPEAKER_00]: Or do you think [SPEAKER_00]: not beneficial for them to sort of lean into that sort of personality that the Tennessee teams have.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you're not really selecting the players for personality that way.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if they're going to shape them right that way so much.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, he's obviously like true [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'll be curious to see what it is.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I also wouldn't necessarily assume, hey, just because he coached one way or had it, you know, certain teams of Tennessee that had certain reputation or style of play or style of how they carry themselves doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be the exact same for how he's going to manage guys in, in the bigly, [SPEAKER_01]: of that ALCS between the Blue Jace and the Mariners, the way that Dan Wilson managed that Mariners bullpen in that game, like if I was Jerry depot, I'd be going absolutely ballistic at that.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like it's pushed me even more toward thinking that teams need to reevaluate their hiring models when it comes to, [SPEAKER_01]: managers.

[SPEAKER_01]: Obviously, I'm talking about the decision to seventh inning to bring in Edward Bizarre with one out.

[SPEAKER_01]: It was runner, what, him and as it just bunched.

[SPEAKER_01]: So runners on, it was runners on second and third, George Springer is at the plate top of the lineup.

[SPEAKER_01]: And Bizarre would just pitch three times in the series through two innings the day before.

[SPEAKER_01]: And instead of bringing in your best reliever, Andre's Munoz is one of the best relievers in baseball.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's just it's such an obvious decision to use moonios there, but why doesn't he do it?

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, because moonios is the closer and to former MLB players when they played, the way closers were largely used is in the night thinning.

[SPEAKER_01]: So you save them for the night thinning.

[SPEAKER_01]: So [SPEAKER_00]: Look, you can teach X.

I have just to add on this.

[SPEAKER_00]: I was watching this game with a very casual baseball fan friend of mine who is from Seattle.

[SPEAKER_00]: He was in town, so I was watching the game with him.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I was talking about this exact decision like in real time.

[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, [SPEAKER_00]: Why are you not bringing in, you know, it's right then.

[SPEAKER_00]: And he says to me, he's like, oh, well, he's the closer.

[SPEAKER_00]: He pitches the ninth and I was like, who cares?

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, you need to bring your best picture in in the most high-level situation.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is like, like, there's no point in saving your closer to keep the lead.

[SPEAKER_00]: to stay within one run of tying the other team rather than keeping your two run lead when you're facing the top of the lineup.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like this is the highest leverage situation.

[SPEAKER_00]: You have to pitch as if you can't afford.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you literally can't afford.

[SPEAKER_00]: to lose this lead you can't wait and hope that he's got a chance to close the game out to in extra I mean this again my least anyone who's followed me or listened to this podcast for long time knows I despise saves for this exact reason because how we assign saves to pictures has materially impacted bullpen usage in a way that is nonsensical and this is the exact situation here [SPEAKER_00]: Agreed, like you need to be able to bring in your best pictures in the situations that call for it, they should not have these sort of black and white roles.

[SPEAKER_00]: It should not be the case where like again, my my casual baseball fan friend watching in 2025 should not be learning still.

[SPEAKER_00]: your clothes are only pitches the ninth inning.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like the fact that this is still something that it gets ingrained in new baseball fans, it's kind of an indictment on how Major League teams are just using pitchers.

[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like, and yeah, it's stupid.

[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't make any sense.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think you can, look, I think you can teach ex-big leagues more optimal strategy and I think that having played in the big leagues has value in being a manager.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I'm also at the point where I think, yeah, it can actually in crane more bad habits than it's worth.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think it's quite as bad what happened in that game seven as when the Orioles.

[SPEAKER_01]: didn't bring in Zach, written in that wild.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_01]: It was hard game, but it made me think back to that.

[SPEAKER_00]: There was that one meme of Craig Kimbrill sitting like warming up, never being brought into a game, too.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't remember the exact situation, but there have been some some of the fall moments like that where your clothes are just kind of sitting there waiting.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's like your clothes are 10, this is like 10 years ago.

[SPEAKER_01]: And we still see managers who are totally unable to think and reason from [SPEAKER_01]: first principles, which in this case is use your best picture against your opponent's best hitters in the biggest moment of the game, especially in a game freaking seven.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we couldn't agree more on this.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is also why, too, we're like going over [SPEAKER_00]: how we're describing reliever prospects.

[SPEAKER_00]: And this is also why I really push away from categorizing an elite reliever as a closer.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like we should be talking about them as a high leverage reliever or just an elite reliever.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like I would love to move away from just the closer as a descriptor because you shouldn't be closing out games, you should be coming into the most key situations and games [SPEAKER_00]: Like exactly what we're talking about here, the closer, even the terminology of closers, I don't feel like useful, because those down the situation there, yeah, just be a fire, like whatever term you talk about fireman a lot, like, well, I think closer, like, the [SPEAKER_00]: the reason I don't like the term closers because it comes with some of this baggage.

[SPEAKER_00]: I would like, you have to close the game.

[SPEAKER_00]: You can't come in the seventh.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like it's part of the title of the role and the whole message.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think Bill James had the term relief ace that he used.

[SPEAKER_00]: Relief ace.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, if you're like fireman, you come out and you put out the fire like that one's fine too.

[SPEAKER_00]: Whatever you want to use it, I like to refer to them as like either high leverage or levers or just like elite relievers, whatever term you want to use.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the specific usage just should.

[SPEAKER_00]: It feels weird to be talking about this in 2025.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: We should know.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's where I'm at.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm at the point where like if I'm a GM or a president of baseball ops and I'm hiring a manager, I'm not going to cross somebody off the list just because they played in the major leagues, but I am going to view those candidates with some skepticism, and especially if someone who doesn't have any tangible experience building or leading as a coach or a manager, [SPEAKER_01]: Carter, what I like about the Tony, if I tell it hires, yeah, he's been hands-on responsible for building this Tennessee program from was not a very good program when he came in and turning into one of the preeminent powers in college baseball.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I'm definitely as part of the interview process going to walk through that [SPEAKER_01]: go through a managerial candidate's sense of like how they think about managing their bullpen in those scenarios, but my concern is that former MLB players, they come in with biases from their playing days and with antiquated ideas that are just ingrained into their core thinking and those bad habits are hard to break.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm looking a big believer [SPEAKER_01]: myself that there are these, you know, foundational truths that have stood the test of time in baseball.

[SPEAKER_01]: Those are important, but I think a lot of ex-big leaders can come in hard-wired with core beliefs on the game.

[SPEAKER_01]: They're just wrong, you know, hard to evolve in their ways.

[SPEAKER_01]: And they get, you know, I have like name recognition with the owners and they played in the big leagues.

[SPEAKER_01]: And these are the guys who've typically been hired in the past, but I just think [SPEAKER_01]: wider pool of candidates, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: Teams could be looking at for these jobs.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, I don't have a strong opinion one way or another about whether or not Tony is really good or really bad managing a bullpen.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I do think one of the biggest adjustments I think we talked about this in our previous conversation about managers is just how you navigate a bullpen.

[SPEAKER_00]: over in 162 game season versus managing your pitching staff on really more of a weekend basis at the college level in a much shorter season, much more compact season.

[SPEAKER_00]: So seeing kind of that learning curve and just what sort of a bullpin manager he is will be fastening just because I don't I don't think we really know at this point because however he uses his pitchers in college, I don't think that's really will be reflective of like a [SPEAKER_00]: what he's like as a manager with a major league team over a much longer season.

[SPEAKER_00]: So that'll be interesting too.

[SPEAKER_00]: How much of it do you think is like you form habits with how you're almost forced to manage in the regular season and knowing how to sort of flip the switch on on those bullpen managing habits in the postseason where you really just have to secure make sure you secure today's win and then figure out [SPEAKER_00]: Well, that's what I think at least, like you have to secure the win and then you figure out the bullpen tomorrow, whereas in the, in the regular season, you definitely have a much more like long term sort of views like, okay, I probably could use more resources for this game, but we've got to get through 162 games, so I can't run all my best relievers into the ground.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think does something to that, but say that was just a game in August or July, you would still want to bring in your best reliever in that situation.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to hear the manager say, well, this is the what the set up guy or the pivot guy.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it looked like Bazarta was not [SPEAKER_01]: like a scrub like he's he's he's having a really good season this year.

[SPEAKER_01]: But the way he had just been used and you have moonios there and springers coming up in this big situation.

[SPEAKER_01]: You got your one, two, three hitters coming up right now with any who's still one out.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's [SPEAKER_01]: your, your reason can't just be, well, this is what we always do like throughout the history of, or not, not even really the history of baseball, because closers were not there in the early days of the game, but we're not even, we're, we're, we're not even, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're not even, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're [SPEAKER_00]: like we probably can push some of our horse starters a little bit further than they are pushed but obviously we're not going back to 300 innings it's just it's not going to happen so well the usual we should probably be in favor of more college we should go to the major league game then [SPEAKER_00]: That's very true.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, Paul's games, I think it was that he threw more 100 pitch games in his draft year at LSU than he did this year.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think I can pretty just confidently say that that happened.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think he had like a handful of games where he did like 102, 105.

[SPEAKER_00]: They're several, like 120 plus pitch games, so he threw at LSU and I think he's equipped to handle that.

[SPEAKER_01]: Most nights, so I could very much see a path or a team hire someone as a manager who has just like, [SPEAKER_01]: what they believe at least is like a great understanding of, you know, that the X is in O's, the in-game strategies, optimal bullpen usage, who has zero experience as a player in professional baseball with enough people skills to handle that part of the game, matching with a bench coach and the rest of the coaching staff to complement the areas where his [SPEAKER_01]: skill set or experience level is lagging and go that route where you can have more confidence that whether it's a regular season game, but especially in the playoffs or game seven of the ALCS that the person making those in-game moves is going to be somebody who has a good sound decision-making process and I don't mean just like pulling in an analyst and his [SPEAKER_01]: 20s from your front office who's like never let players before like I think that would be very risky, but I do think there's just a much, there's a much wider net, no wider pool of candidates who, who have coaching experience to who teams should look at when hiring manners, just be hiring managers beyond these traditional, [SPEAKER_00]: You know what, one of the, one of the skills I would really want for my manager or my head coach of any college team.

[SPEAKER_00]: Very high level, fungo hitting ability or BP throwing ability feel like those are skills that there's like these really.

[SPEAKER_00]: like if you if you have a coach got and he's really bad at a fun go hit or I feel like that is a really bad look for your team as a whole and for and for the bp it would just be incredibly frustrating as a player if you the dive of a coach you could throw a confident betting practice but I'm not even sure how often managers are doing that at the big league level there's so many other people who probably could hop in and take care of that stuff.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think you find somebody to to do that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but we're starting to get a long list of skills and talents we need to have been.

[SPEAKER_00]: Everyone can check them all off.

[SPEAKER_00]: Not everyone can hit the [SPEAKER_00]: The in and out catcher in field fly ball and also be a strategic mastermind.

[SPEAKER_01]: That is that is a tricky one But yeah Do you can see I mean if you're a giant fan and you're wondering about the higher.

[SPEAKER_01]: I would say look at the reaction of Tennessee fans right now I mean they absolutely love Tony Vitello And maybe they'd be more pissed off of the also look at the reaction of Vanderbilt fans both of the reactions of those fan bases will tell you a lot about [SPEAKER_01]: You know, if he left to take like a the job at Vanderbilt or say, you know, Arkansas, you know, instead of a major league manager's job, maybe the reaction would be different, but I mean, he's loved among the fans there.

[SPEAKER_01]: And big part of that is obviously the on field success that he's had and the turnaround of that program, but he also just changed the identity of Tennessee baseball and like I think about most managers.

[SPEAKER_01]: to their fans, generally, like them, I think it's some cases, certainly, like if you're winning, but even then, I don't know that- Could you think of the most beloved major league managers?

[SPEAKER_00]: Cause I mean, they do feel like just scapegoats most of the time.

[SPEAKER_00]: If the team is doing well and has been good consistently, I imagine the fans like the manager, and if the team is bad or has been doing bad for a long time, are you probably getting a revolving door of managers?

[SPEAKER_00]: And I imagine there's not a lot of love for managers.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and even if you're winning, I mean, like Aaron Boone is not, I don't think widely beloved among these.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think a lot of fans are mixed in the major leagues too.

[SPEAKER_00]: There are key players who's.

[SPEAKER_00]: whose time with a team is often longer than the managers themselves and so fans can become very attached to the players in a way where in college you're getting three or four years of an individual player and for the most part for most programs the coaches.

[SPEAKER_00]: I have a much longer timeline with the team.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so because of that, the sort of figures that you're attached to as a fan, it's just with the consistency of whoever's running the team where, and I don't know, the average manager, like the average time spent managing a team is at this point, but it can't be more than a handful of years.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like there are some outliers, like they've Roberts, who've been with a team for a long time, just again, largely because the team [SPEAKER_00]: but you're not getting players having longer careers than most coaches at the college level.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, great.

[SPEAKER_00]: Just burn out on the chart.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Cool, okay.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's Tony V.

Talk.

[SPEAKER_00]: Let's pivot into our draft rankings update.

[SPEAKER_00]: Ben, you helped with Peter, Jacob.

[SPEAKER_00]: We've spent a lot of time over the last few weeks.

[SPEAKER_00]: tweaking this update, kind of reacting to the summer showcase circuit, a lot of movement on the high school side, some movement on the college side as well, but we've got new draft rankings out, no changes at the very top.

[SPEAKER_00]: Rock Chalowski still slotted into our 11 spot.

[SPEAKER_00]: Greatie Emerson still leading the high school class in the number two spot.

[SPEAKER_01]: What are your thoughts on this class as it stands right now?

[SPEAKER_01]: number three or who who the candidates could be to fit in that number three spots.

[SPEAKER_01]: So right now we have Tyler Spamler there, high school shortstop from California, committed to Stanford, but obviously one of the premier high school players in the class.

[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like Rukchelowski obviously belongs.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think at number one, [SPEAKER_01]: college shortstop college player the year last year as a sophomore was a great player a great prospect in high school who got to UCLA.

[SPEAKER_01]: I just said very high bonus requests the teams did not want to meet.

[SPEAKER_01]: It seems to be one of the best college shortstop we've seen in like a decade.

[SPEAKER_01]: Pretty easy to check a lot of a lot of boxes on there for [SPEAKER_01]: Potential number one overall pick.

[SPEAKER_01]: Greatie Emerson, very advanced polished, left-handed hitting shortstop on a high school in Texas.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's just super advanced and everything that he does, especially the plate, love his swing long track record of hitting pretty good tools to not like a bunch of like 70s all over.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I think he's a true shortstop.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think he's gonna hit at a high level, [SPEAKER_01]: So I could, you know, I'd see certainly why he's number two, whereas number three, it didn't seem like there's like an obvious guy.

[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[SPEAKER_01]: You put there that jumped out as like, oh, yeah, like, this guy needs to go here, like, whether it's college guys, high school guys, there's a bunch of guys where I think could be in that mix after Chalowski and Emerson.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I agree.

[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like that's kind of the feedback I've gotten from the industry that was kind of my thoughts on just like seeing the class.

[SPEAKER_00]: Most people that I've talked with, it feels like Jelowski's kind of the consensus one one.

[SPEAKER_00]: You don't think too hard about that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Greatie kind of did greaty things the summer and like you mentioned has just a very polished refined game.

[SPEAKER_00]: So you feel really good about those two.

[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like entering the summer.

[SPEAKER_00]: I would have been a lot more confident in saying, hey, Jacob Lombard is just that guy who's number three, and you can maybe make a compelling case that you would rather have him been greedy.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm ashamed because he does have that sort of explosive secondary toolset.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I think there are a lot of toolsy high school hitters in particular that just didn't have the summers that I would have wanted to see to feel confident putting them like, [SPEAKER_00]: They're the next up in this number three bucket like guys like Lombard, Brady Harris, Kevin Roberts, they struggled with swinging miss and just like the quality of their at bats at certain times.

[SPEAKER_00]: All of these players have really impressed with athleticism and allow secondary tools.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then you look at some of the college players in this range, like I think Derek Curiel at LSU has one of the better hit tools in this class going back to his high school days.

[SPEAKER_00]: His debut was [SPEAKER_00]: really impressive.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think even though he doesn't have the typical speed for center field, I think he can be a quite good defender at the position.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so you're looking at an SEC proven hitter up the middle profile, left handed hitter.

[SPEAKER_00]: But you're like, okay, how much impact is he going to have?

[SPEAKER_00]: So that would be the big question with me for a guy like Curiel.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then you look at Tyler Spangler, I think.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's got a really impressive swing as well.

[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe he doesn't have the sort of power or foot speed or like defensive certainty at short stop to make me confident that he's absolutely the next guy.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think Liam Peterson, the right hand to picture at Florida.

[SPEAKER_00]: has a solid case for this spot as well.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's got a power mix, big fast ball, really impressive slider, has made strides with the control.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's got the frame that you would want to see.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I think there's a group of six players for me that I think you could defensively put in the three spot, but I do agree.

[SPEAKER_00]: It kind of, there feels like a pretty solid tear break.

[SPEAKER_00]: After one and then after two again, or there's this big cluster of players and I think there's going to be an opportunity, especially for the college players to have a strong year and really cement themselves as the next up, but right now it does feel a bit wide open and I think.

[SPEAKER_00]: This seems to happen every year before the draft class actually we get in the mix of it like people are really excited and then we start scouting the draft class and you can sort of pick players apart a little bit see some of the cracks, but I am getting less less enthusiasm for the impact players at the top of this class then now then I did before the summer.

[SPEAKER_00]: on the high school side and the college that you think are both yet.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I think like and this is probably true of every class I kind of mentioned this in passing with Peter but if you look at the most tools he players in the class a lot of them come with real hit risks.

[SPEAKER_00]: Kitten Bogum Pole, a guy called Joffitorm, Missouri State, he's a player we had to rank top 10 entering the summer.

[SPEAKER_00]: Just to continue questions about [SPEAKER_00]: his pure hitting ability, caused him to fall.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think with Sawyer's straw Snyder looking back, he's I think one of the players that I would say are in the mix to be like number three in the class.

[SPEAKER_00]: If you want to make a case for him, I think that'd be defensible.

[SPEAKER_00]: But like he has some swing and miss tendencies going back to high school.

[SPEAKER_00]: He has one year of college performance that is tremendous.

[SPEAKER_00]: But if you look under the hood, he is a bit of a free swinger.

[SPEAKER_00]: He comes with a little bit of swing and miss.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's some chase.

[SPEAKER_00]: and then if you look at some of the other players that you're maybe more confident in their pure hitting ability, they have just impact questions.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think both Eric Becker, short stop at Virginia, Tyler Bell, short stop at Kentucky.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like these are the sort of profiles that feel very safe and very reliable and very steady, but with both of them, I've gotten questions from [SPEAKER_00]: to like what sort of power are you going to get these players?

[SPEAKER_00]: Are they more like solid average tools across the board?

[SPEAKER_00]: Or are they going to have like plus caring tools that can just create a little bit of upside?

[SPEAKER_00]: And so there's this sort of blend of safety versus upside you get every year and I think [SPEAKER_00]: with Brock, in particular, you kind of have both, which makes him the one one, and with Grady, just the track record of his pure hitting ability, and like you mentioned, his tools aren't Bob Boot Jr.

caliber, but they're quite good.

[SPEAKER_00]: That kind of makes them separators where you kind of pick apart every other player in this class in one direction or another to a much greater degree.

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, that's what happened with Derek Curiel when he was in high school, too.

[SPEAKER_01]: And now we have him wear top five.

[SPEAKER_01]: And what's right?

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, we'll see.

[SPEAKER_01]: But he's feel pretty good.

[SPEAKER_01]: It'd probably be a first round pick.

[SPEAKER_01]: Right this year.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like something would have to go pretty wrong for him not to.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm curious about two college short stops.

[SPEAKER_01]: We have, you know, you mentioned Tyler Bell, Kentucky switching shortstop coming off a really strong freshman year.

[SPEAKER_01]: It can tucky [SPEAKER_01]: And then Justin LeBron, shortstop at Alabama, two guys who have, you know, short stops who have performs in the SEC, although maybe not as much in the SEC in terms of the great performance for LeBron, what could could those guys jump into that, you know, top three, top five range potentially or what keeps them out of there for you right now.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, what keeps them out for now are just I think with LeBron in particular, it's like hit tool questions and some of the like how he attacks secondary questions that surfaced in his conference play in particular.

[SPEAKER_00]: I was pulling this up right now, but in 2025, overall he hit 316, 421, 636 with a 24.2% strikeout rate.

[SPEAKER_00]: If you just isolate his numbers to conference play [SPEAKER_00]: and the 24% strikeout rate jumps up to 32%.

[SPEAKER_00]: For me, anything in college, we weren't talking about hitters in the first round north of 25%, gets pretty concerning.

[SPEAKER_00]: And if you're talking about a college hitter, striking out at a 31% clip, I think there are just some real hit tool concerns that speaks to.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so LeBron's toolset, [SPEAKER_00]: is as exciting as anyone, not named Chalowski and Straussnider of the guys, although Lombard and there's what I think I'd take his tool to maybe over all of them.

[SPEAKER_00]: But inside the top 10, I think like the bat speed, the power he's shown, the defensive actions at shortstop are all really exciting, but he really needs to, I think, take a step forward in his approach and show a little bit better context skills.

[SPEAKER_00]: next spring, particularly in SEC play, which is like the competition that teams are really going to be bearing down on.

[SPEAKER_00]: Tyler Bell, I think it's more of a question of just like what sort of physicality is he going to show?

[SPEAKER_00]: What sort of power upside is he going to show?

[SPEAKER_00]: I think, again, I think he's a very well-rounded player.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's got a clean swing from both sides to the plate.

[SPEAKER_00]: I just got some feedback from some scouts who view him as maybe more of like a back of the first round type, because of the impact questions, and then some scouts who like him a little bit more in the range where we have him now.

[SPEAKER_00]: He kind of looks like he's fitting in the sort of...

[SPEAKER_00]: Merrick Houston range on our board now.

[SPEAKER_00]: Merrick came out last spring and he looked like he was taking a step forward in the power department and he sort of moved up into the top 10 range with Dean Curley and then both of them fell back a little bit to different degrees because again some of the impact in offensive concerns for Merrick surface and then with Dean he had the whole defensive questions that the surface for him as well as in addition to just not taking a real step forward offensively.

[SPEAKER_00]: So if any of these players were talking about [SPEAKER_00]: Make strides in the areas of weakness right now.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think they could easily push towards that number three spot.

[SPEAKER_00]: Because I do think it's fairly wide open.

[SPEAKER_01]: On the draft this year, we had what three college pitchers go in the top five.

[SPEAKER_01]: They are the, sorry, the angels to Tyler Bremner too.

[SPEAKER_01]: Mariners to Kate Anderson.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's three cardinals to Liam Doyle at five.

[SPEAKER_01]: We have, so we have two, what is it?

[SPEAKER_01]: Two college pitchers in our top 10.

[SPEAKER_01]: We have Liam Peters in a four out of four to Camp Fluki, a coastal Carolina at 10.

[SPEAKER_01]: Is there, is there like a big gap between them and in [SPEAKER_01]: He's a guy, I think I'm probably most excited about this group at the top.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like I think he has just a lot of traits that fit toward a, toward the top of a rotation.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's been, I've been a huge fan of his since high school.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's just really good prototype pitchers, frame, the stuff continues to tick up mid to upper 90s, velocity, sling him is breaking stuff, throw strikes, like pretty good track record so far or not.

[SPEAKER_01]: It lead, but like, I don't know, but we'll see what obviously what happens this year, but better track or the like Liam Doyle or Kate Anderson had coming into, you know, their, their draft year.

[SPEAKER_01]: Obviously those guys transform their profile says, as I say, juniors, but maybe a sophomore in Kate Anderson's case, but yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: be aware of your thoughts on those guys.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and we'll have a piece up as you're listening to this podcast on Friday.

[SPEAKER_00]: like going into the weeds a little bit more on Liam Peterson.

[SPEAKER_00]: I've been working on that this week, but I would describe it similar to you.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like I think Peterson is, I mean, we have him ranked four.

[SPEAKER_00]: We have him ranked at the front of the screw but I think he kind of enters as the maybe defacto college SP1.

[SPEAKER_00]: I do think the difference in specific ranks for these three, maybe would make you think there's a bigger gap than there really is in reality.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think really these top 20 or so players [SPEAKER_00]: are fairly interchangeable.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like I think they're pretty close in terms of their talent now and are going to have opportunities to make strides to the spring.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I think there you'll get some people who say that like each of Lee and Peterson Cameron Flooky and Jackson Flora, all three of our top college right handers, are kind of in the same tier, most of our feedback is just favored Lee and Peterson, in which is why he's in the spot that he's in.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I think both Flooky and Flora have really exciting power [SPEAKER_00]: arsenals to to really like out of big frames like I that's maybe what stands out with this pitching class right now even on the high school side is there's this combination of physicality and power stuff from a lot of the arms.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not sure how much it'll be held against fluki and flora that they're pitching in smaller conferences but when you're sort of trying to [SPEAKER_00]: like dominating in the SEC is going to be a little bit more impressive than dominating at Coastal Carolina or at UC Santa Barbara.

[SPEAKER_00]: I say this with Tyler Bremner going second overall as far as recent draft, but who's going to start game one of the World Series for the Blue Jays?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, create a savage, our guy looking pretty good at pick number 20 there.

[SPEAKER_00]: So maybe I shouldn't even say that, but I do think like that tends to come up, I mean if you're if you're dominating the best conference in college baseball, I do think you have to factor in the competition level to some degree, but again, it is easier to project stuff from pitchers.

[SPEAKER_00]: to the next level compared to performance from hitters, so yeah, I think all three of these guys really are going to have a chance to pitch themselves into the SP1 conversation, depending on what they do next year.

[SPEAKER_00]: I would like to see maybe more strikes from Peterson.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's one area.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's made some strides seeing a sub 10% walk rate for him next year would be really encouraging.

[SPEAKER_00]: is strong on both sides of the ball.

[SPEAKER_00]: We could talk about this three-headed right-hander trio on the college ranks.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think there's an equally exciting trio of high school lefties that also seem to be lumped.

[SPEAKER_00]: In the same sort of range, we've got Gioro Haas out of Florida, Carson Bulman, out of South Carolina and Logan Schmitt out of California, all ranked in the 18 to 25ish range on our board.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I've talked to a number of scouts who lined those guys up in much different orders.

[SPEAKER_00]: The fact that we have five high school players ranked top 30, I think just speaks to the pitching talent in that demographic.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then Joseph Contrares, who's the son of Jose Contrares at 31, I have a, I'd be willing to bet there will not be six high school pitchers going in the top, 31 picks, but also [SPEAKER_01]: that we have.

[SPEAKER_01]: They all had really great summers.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, maybe like robots in terms of like pure performance, not even quite as good as those other like Jensen Hirsch corn was ridiculous all year Logan Schmidt as well.

[SPEAKER_01]: And he's a reclass from 226.

[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, the 17 at the draft.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he's younger and the curve for that class Carson Bowman.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, man, Carson Bowman.

[SPEAKER_01]: He, every time I see this guy, he dominates.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I've seen him a lot over the years with some guys to like, you know, with a geo-rowhouse for this class or I think back to Thomas White in 2023, door outings of the old loose command or get hit around and okay, still love those guys.

[SPEAKER_01]: Bullomont always shows, always.

[SPEAKER_01]: Always.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not saying he's the number one pitcher in the class.

[SPEAKER_01]: But if I had a, like, a muswin game, a gold medal game and I had to pick anybody in this class to be my starting pitcher, I am taking car symbol among his six foot four strong body left hand a pitcher throw strikes to both sides of the plate with his fast ball.

[SPEAKER_01]: He does the same thing with multiple breaking balls.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's curve ball slider.

[SPEAKER_01]: They're both, you know, either plus or potential.

[SPEAKER_01]: Plus pitches, big swing and miss weapons and his ability to execute them is uncanny for his age.

[SPEAKER_01]: We saw the velocity tick up to a little bit this summer.

[SPEAKER_01]: It was up to like 94 early six.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, sorry.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, 94 earlier in the summer, which was I think even a little tick up from the previous year.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, now 96.

[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.

[SPEAKER_01]: There's some feel for a change up to they just doesn't use all that much.

[SPEAKER_01]: I guess the concerns would be other than just being a high school picture would just be he is pretty strong and filled out already like does he ever throw with plus velocity?

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know like it's not a light fast ball.

[SPEAKER_01]: I just don't know that it's ever going to be somewhere to you is sitting in the mid 90s as a starter at least and he's definitely a starter.

[SPEAKER_01]: He'll also be 19 in April so that's you know on the older end of the class but it is I mean it's very much a starter look.

[SPEAKER_01]: outstanding pitchability, swing and miss secondaries.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I already thought he was one of the best pitching prospects in the class.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it sounds like he's just elevated his stocks in sir, mid-submer update in July, especially for teams that are going to value left-handed pitching, highly, certainly more highly than I do.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I definitely talk to some scouts who view him as the best left-handed pitcher in this class.

[SPEAKER_00]: I really thought long and hard about whether or not he should jump geofrohaus.

[SPEAKER_00]: We have them kind of right beside each other in part of that is because I think you can pick whichever one you prefer.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's mostly felt like when separating these left-handed pitchers.

[SPEAKER_00]: If you want the most insane arm talent, arm speed, maybe pure stuff, geofrohaus is probably your guy.

[SPEAKER_00]: Bulloman, everyone talked about just the the precision and the strike throwing and how advanced and polished he was.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like you were mentioning, I mean, he was the best pitcher on on a team USA team that also included Joe Rojas, I think he led the team with 17 strikeouts.

[SPEAKER_00]: He was too far as like in the spring.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think he could start for them.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then with with Logan Schmidt, who's kind of that maybe the guy who's made up the most ground in terms of our rankings over the course of the summer.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think the big factor for him is he's going to be 17 on draft day.

[SPEAKER_00]: He also has a really big frame, so coming into a lot of strength, six foot four, 215 pounds.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's been up to 97.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's shown a good change up.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's shown a breaking ball that probably is behind both the breaking balls of Rojas and Ballamon right now, but he's shown field to spin two different breaking balls.

[SPEAKER_00]: So you've kind of got that youth to change up.

[SPEAKER_00]: 97 from the left side with him and then honestly I don't I don't know if we want to fall to him into this conversation here on on the high school pitching but I really love Coleman Boarthwick.

[SPEAKER_00]: You talked about how a ball amount for you has been a guy that just performs every single time you've seen him.

[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like Boarthwick for me every time I've seen him.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just like blown away [SPEAKER_00]: by the combination of power stuff and polish like the strikes that he shows with a fastball that's consistently mid 90s up to 98 and then he's got this really sharp, snappy, hard, mid 80s slider.

[SPEAKER_00]: I thought that was a plus pitch basically every time I've seen it dating back to his days as an underclassman and he's also like a really good hitter.

[SPEAKER_00]: He was an impressive hitter with [SPEAKER_00]: Team USA's 18-ute team as well.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think everyone in the industry is going to just be far too and saturated with his upside on the mound to worry about the hitting.

[SPEAKER_00]: In pro ball, but if he got to campus at Auburn, it wouldn't be surprising to me at all.

[SPEAKER_00]: If he made an impact as a two-way player, but if he wound up being the best pitcher in this class, it wouldn't shock me.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he's interesting because he's, for all the reasons he said, he's also, he's six foot six two hundred fifty five pounds and when I, you know, first song I'm going to do is 16 years old.

[SPEAKER_01]: pretty similar height and weight.

[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe 10 pounds, 15 pounds less, but huge guy.

[SPEAKER_01]: And my thought was, well, you know, when you see a guy like that, and maybe like some of your Mohammed is kind of the same way in the 2027 class as an LSU, you can be like, you see these big guys who are, you know, famous early famous names when they're young.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yep, and you're like oh, but like he's just like big strong.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's just just got bigger than everyone earlier.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, and you're like yeah, all right.

[SPEAKER_01]: So he throws hard now and everybody else will catch up like we'll see.

[SPEAKER_01]: When you watch him pitch, you're like, like, Jesus, like, this guy's one of the best strike throwers in the country.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, it's not just, oh, he's a big, strong kid who can throw hard, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: He's a slider too.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's a, you see him at third base, you're like, Jesus, like, this guy moves around pretty athletically for big as he is.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I'm not gonna say he's playing a major league third base at that size.

[SPEAKER_01]: And, obviously, he's been a better at pitching and that's where his future is.

[SPEAKER_01]: But he is a good athlete.

[SPEAKER_01]: That athletic, that athleticism translates on the mound, helps him repeat his delivery.

[SPEAKER_01]: He throws a lot of strikes and to go with big time, power, stuff too.

[SPEAKER_01]: There's a ton of good arms in this 26 high school class.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, Barswick is one of the more just like physically advanced players in this class as a whole college or high school.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think at East Coast Pro, he was actually listed at like 263 or something like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: So if he was heavier than his listed 255, it wouldn't shock me.

[SPEAKER_00]: But it's not to the point where I have any like body concerns.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think he's just [SPEAKER_00]: workhorse build, clearly can repeat the delivery fine, maybe with players of that size at that age, you kind of have to stay on top of conditioning as they age, but it's not at all close to a point where I would be like, oh, this is a concern for me moving forward.

[SPEAKER_00]: I just think he's a a physical freak with insane stuff to match.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: And to your point too about the like you would be surprised to see six high school pictures go inside the top 30 31 picks.

[SPEAKER_00]: I was looking back because we had so much up era movement for these high school pitchers to the point where I was like man, like, [SPEAKER_00]: teams just don't want to take high school pitchers this high I understand to that we are ranking players on talent and a lot of these guys might get drafted later but they'll get paid with with first round sort of money breaks McKinsey this happened with him he was drafted later by the brave's gut [SPEAKER_00]: Nearly for sure I'm money, I think it was the highest paid player in that draft class despite being like the third or fourth player They actually selected so that's common not too worried about that But you do have to go back to the 2021 draft to actually see five high school pictures taken inside the top 30 picks It's just a profile That just for like draft logistics makes sense to go later and get paid more [SPEAKER_00]: There are a number of teams who just will not take a high school pitcher in the first round.

[SPEAKER_00]: Regardless, and I also think this class just has a lot of talented haters too.

[SPEAKER_00]: A lot of teams in general will defer to the college arms.

[SPEAKER_00]: You mentioned triusavage starting game one of the world's series.

[SPEAKER_00]: This soon after him being selected, that's exactly why teams would prefer to take a college pitcher.

[SPEAKER_00]: The ETA is much quicker.

[SPEAKER_00]: The projection is much less and you also maybe can say you [SPEAKER_00]: handle innings and just like the survivorship bias of pitching and injuries could play a role there as well.

[SPEAKER_00]: But this is one of the better high school pitching classes we've seen.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so I wonder on draft day, like when when push comes the shove, like if this high school pitching talent will sort of force itself upon the teams and what sort of pit capital we're going to see out of this demographic.

[SPEAKER_01]: Are there players outside the, let's say like top 30 right now that you think it'd be, I'm sure there's a bunch of them, but anybody in particular you think has a strong chance to jump up and put themselves into that first round range this year?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think just like broadly, anyone who's in first round or in top 100 range right now, [SPEAKER_00]: I think has like a pretty solid case.

[SPEAKER_00]: You can make a solid case for the making a jump and getting into first round territory on draft day.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like there's still gonna be a lot of movement on the board here.

[SPEAKER_00]: In terms of players that I really like who I could see moving into that range, [SPEAKER_00]: I think Eric Booth, Jr., who is a high school alpharata Mississippi, has the sort of tools and youth and is the sort of profile that a few teams who really like athleticism, tools, upside potential.

[SPEAKER_00]: If he went inside the first round for those teams, it wouldn't be surprising to me at all.

[SPEAKER_00]: We haven't ranked 46 right now.

[SPEAKER_00]: It feels like for most teams in the industry, he's at least a top two round talent.

[SPEAKER_00]: there are going to be some teams that are maybe more skeptical of like how he does it swing-wise, there are going to be some teams that maybe would like to see a little bit more projection from him physically.

[SPEAKER_00]: He is pretty, pretty filled out and strong now.

[SPEAKER_00]: But again, when you look at the youth, when you look at the speed, [SPEAKER_00]: He's a pretty consistent 70 grade runner.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think the impact he showed this summer was really impressive.

[SPEAKER_00]: The power he showed, whether it's just you like the power speed, youth combo period, or whether you think that your player development can help him unlock a lot of things offensively at the next level.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think he's a really appealing package.

[SPEAKER_00]: So he's maybe one of the first guys I would point to.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm curious if there's a player that you like that you think could work into the first round too.

[SPEAKER_01]: On the college side, I'll start there.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, among pitchers, Tegan Coons at Tennessee, I think he has a chance to come out.

[SPEAKER_01]: He had a really strong summer on the Cape, not that he was there for all that long, but ever since I've been watching him since he was probably like 15, I've been probably one of his biggest fan.

[SPEAKER_01]: The velocity continues to tick up.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's touching upper 90s.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's elite spin on his breaking stuff.

[SPEAKER_01]: And they still refining shapes and all that with that stuff.

[SPEAKER_01]: But it's, I think he's going to come out and have a monster season for Tennessee and put himself into that first round range.

[SPEAKER_01]: The other guys a bit of more of a wild card and not my typical flavor is Miles Bailey, the first basement of Florida State.

[SPEAKER_01]: who is a draft eligible sophomore as a freshman.

[SPEAKER_01]: Look at his numbers here, 327, 441, 663.

[SPEAKER_01]: He has some of the best raw power in college baseball.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's, if the only way you're giving him 70 raw power is if you're just being conservative, 80 raw power as what was a 19 year old freshman.

[SPEAKER_01]: Last year, he's 20 now, so July 7th, DOB, so he's like narrowly draft eligible, the concern is the strike outs.

[SPEAKER_01]: He ran a 31% strikeout rate, but he's, you know, he still was productive and is his freshman year in the ACC.

[SPEAKER_01]: So to come in right away.

[SPEAKER_01]: produce like that is impressive.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's reasonable to expect that he could cut down on his swing and miss.

[SPEAKER_01]: And if he's able to keep the contact rate to a manageable level and continues to perform at a high level with that kind of top of the scale, we're all power.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not predicting him to be a [SPEAKER_01]: into that range if he does cut down and swing a miss because like when I watch this guys highlight swings and like this is like this is like the greatest player I've ever seen like right it works really good when you get to.

[SPEAKER_00]: Bailey has like face melting power in your right when you see him connect on a pitch like I think he hit a couple balls that I'm not sure have hit the ground still at the ACC tournament and you're like [SPEAKER_00]: It's the sort of home run, you're like, man, have I seen a home run hit that high in that far before and the power didn't come out of nowhere when he was a high school or like he had massive massive power potential and I think he was getting like 70 great raw at the time.

[SPEAKER_00]: It would be really skeptical of him.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think he's got a chance to go in the first round, but like the contact is really, really bad and needs to improve in a big way.

[SPEAKER_00]: You mentioned that 31% strikeout rate, his overall contact rate last year was 59%, which is like one of the worst numbers.

[SPEAKER_00]: I can remember for a player in the top 100 in this range, so I think there's just sort of speaks to the extreme nature of his profile.

[SPEAKER_00]: we don't often tolerate this sort of misrisk of a player who ranks this high generally, but the power upside is just so great that you almost have to kind of forces it on you and there is there's going to be little to know defensive value that you're getting out of him.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's like first based on the DH type, so there just is so much pressure on him to get to that power.

[SPEAKER_00]: When you mentioned Bailey, [SPEAKER_00]: I think about another player who was a new entry into our top 100 on this update from the high school ranks.

[SPEAKER_00]: Again, I wouldn't say this player was likely to be a first rounder, but I think he has a path to get there, and that's Dominic Santorelli.

[SPEAKER_00]: the Wisconsin left-handed hitter, Alphler first baseman.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's six foot one, 220 pounds.

[SPEAKER_00]: Again, I would imagine he's probably even a little bit more physical than that 220 listing.

[SPEAKER_00]: But he has shown some of the more impressive raw power in this high school class.

[SPEAKER_00]: I got to see him at the baseball factory event at Camden Yards, row him up as like a notable standout.

[SPEAKER_00]: In his raw power and also just feel for the barrel, both in batting practice and in game was much better than I expected it to be and I'm like looking at sense of release performance track record he has had a lot of games where he showed a lot more swing and missed than I saw personally, but just talking with some scouts who've kind of had their [SPEAKER_00]: like they kind of looked at him like I've never seen a high school player show this sort of rock power it makes me wonder if he could be like a Xavier Isaac sort of high school power oriented first round type like it would be hard to see him as a consensus first round or but for someone really just dreaming on the power upside I think he's shown a little bit more feel for the barrel than Xavier Isaac did [SPEAKER_00]: at the same stage.

[SPEAKER_00]: I also think he's a little bit of a sneaky athlete.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think he's definitely going to be a corner player.

[SPEAKER_00]: In some capacity, I think first space is more likely, but I don't think it's like a zero percent chance that he plays a corner outfield spot.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so if that just adds enough wiggle room to sort of the hit power, you need to get out of him.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think he would be an [SPEAKER_01]: These guys were talking about ain't really is the high school.

[SPEAKER_01]: Sure stuff, New York is very close to that first half range where we have him right now.

[SPEAKER_01]: So not exactly like stepping out on a long limb here, but short stuff.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, he played on Team USA that won the gold medal at the U.A.

[SPEAKER_01]: team World Cup in September.

[SPEAKER_01]: And Greatie Emerson was on that team.

[SPEAKER_01]: Jacob Lumbar was on that team.

[SPEAKER_01]: and those guys basically moved somewhere else so that A and Ruiz could play shortstop.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, he's the best defensive shortstop in the country.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, one bar is really good to do, but I take Ruiz just over anybody.

[SPEAKER_01]: A different type of shortstop.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's just so instinctual as hands are ridiculous.

[SPEAKER_01]: He just has a, [SPEAKER_01]: nose for the ball great awareness anticipation switch it or makes a ton of contact so true shortstop with those kind of switch it in contact skills from both sides of the plate.

[SPEAKER_01]: Good offensive track record.

[SPEAKER_01]: question marks are going to be EA's going to be 19 of the draft and I think there's some sneaky bad speed in there, but he's not, I don't know that he ever comes into a whole lot of power.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I think those will be the question marks with him, but if you really value the shortstop, the track record of hitting, getting on base, making a ton of contact, one of the lower swing and miss rates in the country for high school player.

[SPEAKER_01]: I could very, very easily see that going in the first round.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'll stick on the high school side and also move a little bit further away from the big, big, big, miss-question mark bats and go with, in-filter-out-filter, Conorcomo out of Texas.

[SPEAKER_00]: He is a six-foot-four, 180-pound left-handed hitter, [SPEAKER_00]: who is extremely young for the class.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's still going to be 17 at the draft.

[SPEAKER_00]: He jumped up 45 spots for us from 98 to 53 on the draft board.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we've got him solidly in the second round.

[SPEAKER_00]: So kind of similar to Ruiz and Eric both juniors.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's not super far out of that range right now.

[SPEAKER_00]: But he has the sort of hitting track record.

[SPEAKER_00]: and swing, and physical, like just projection in the frame where it wouldn't shock me at all, as if he came out next spring, playing against Texas competition, looking a lot stronger, showing even more power, maybe even running better.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not like projecting him to run better, but he is sort of this frame.

[SPEAKER_00]: in defensive profile where right now I view him as like a likely corner guy probably corner outfielder because he's not the best runner now but if he comes out showing more foot speed it's not uncommon to see players add strength and have their [SPEAKER_00]: run tools, tick up at this age, and I think he's already proven to have one of the more exciting hit and power combinations when you're just projecting players out.

[SPEAKER_00]: So just the combination of the projection he has, the swing itself, the polish he showed throughout the circuit, the summer and fall, it would not be shocking to me at all if he just had a really great offseason layered on more strength the tools took a jump and all of the sudden you're looking at this.

[SPEAKER_00]: six foot four, 17 year old who people have a lot of confidence in the bat and I are looking to really well rounded profile from a run field, throwing standpoint.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think he he would probably be an up arrow, sleeper candidate for a lot of people just given the body in the swing.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think the defense would have to take a pretty significant step forward probably [SPEAKER_01]: left hand, it hit or can really drive the ball with some impact to the opposite field too.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I think there's a lot to like offensively with him.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you have any other players or any other things you want to mention about the draft board as a whole or the class?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's a lot, but we'll talk about it over the next seven months or eight months, whatever we just we've got a lot of time and if you guys want to see the full board it's on the site we've also got a piece kind of with that going over all the risers followers new additions players falling off in particular if you really want to get in the weeds unlike the overall movement of the class and and get a good feel for it to to get prepared for next spring.

[SPEAKER_00]: We've got one question today, Ben.

[SPEAKER_00]: If you want to get into some listener questions or a listener question, Purdue boiler maker on Instagram, Instagram, Instagram.

[SPEAKER_00]: On Instagram, ask all things being equal, how much more valuable are left handed hitters, versus right handed hitters, and draft models for MLP teams.

[SPEAKER_00]: You can have a first crack of this.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think it varies and whether it's in explicit weight in a team's model in terms of promoting the left-handed hittering, left-handed hitters, more than right-handed hitters, or if it just comes from a natural scouting tendency to place more value in their own reports on projecting left-handed hitters versus right-handed hitters.

[SPEAKER_01]: and it probably varies team by team and scout by scout.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't place like a ton of emphasis on it myself.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I think right handed hitters get overlooked or undervalued sometimes, especially a quarter.

[SPEAKER_01]: And as I go, he's like a right handed hitting quarter guy, I don't know.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'll take [SPEAKER_01]: Paul Goldschmidt, I'll take Albert Boules, like you got, you don't have to have them.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's fine.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like if you can hit, you get on base control this drag zone, hit for power.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's way more important than which.

[SPEAKER_01]: hand you hit with, but it does, you know, when you're building out a roster, it obviously does matter, we're trying to build platoons and matchups.

[SPEAKER_01]: And if you are hitting from the left side of the play, that is more valuable for for teams in roster, construction, blow and I'm from drafting players.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not really thinking about that so much of like, well, how much is this is a matter of this [SPEAKER_01]: puttune, bad, or might have more puttune value than if this other guy is a right hand to hit or it would be on that side of the puttune.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I think it varies, but it does have an impact for teams.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think I mean a lot of high units this question depends on how much we're taking the question.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, you're saying, all things being equal.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, if everything is equal for me, I'm just taking the left hand of the hit or every single time.

[SPEAKER_00]: If every single thing about the player is equal, because I would just rather have a hit or who's able to get the platinid advantage more frequently.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I just think it's hard to...

[SPEAKER_00]: line up two players, though, and have every single thing be equal outside of the the handedness, like that's just very rare.

[SPEAKER_00]: So taking your question exactly, as you have it, I think every single team would prefer the left handed hitter for the platoon reason, but to Ben's point, you can certainly get [SPEAKER_00]: to a level where you're probably overwriting, left-handed hitters.

[SPEAKER_00]: And you can certainly look at some draft history.

[SPEAKER_00]: If you look at the sort of hitters, teams of take in, specifically, if you're like isolating first five rounds, there are some teams that very clearly seem to target left-handed hitters.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think the gardens are a team that jumps out.

[SPEAKER_00]: In particular, they've been very, very heavy.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think maybe one of the most aggressive in the industry, in terms of selecting for left-handed hitting, [SPEAKER_00]: to a higher level.

[SPEAKER_00]: So if I can just guarantee that like the tools are the same, the hitting qualities the same, like yeah, sure give me the left-handed hitter.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I would say that's true that guardians to internationally, whether it's left-handed hitters or switch hitters, especially.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, do you think would you have a preference for left-handed hitting versus switch hitting versus right-handed hitting?

[SPEAKER_00]: It does like how much the switch hitting add value for you.

[SPEAKER_00]: Ben, I know, I think Jeff Ponce's thing recently is like he just thinks switch hitting requires a lot of maintenance to just keep both swings up.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so he probably values it less than most people historically would.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if you have a take on switch hitting at all.

[SPEAKER_01]: if you can do it I think it's yeah it's even more valuable if you can switch it yeah yeah I mean they're certain guys who are not balanced switch shatters yeah so if you can't you know if you're really struggling from one side of the plate and but if you can neutralize those you know it's breaking balls totally you know to a certain extent and you have to think about that left on left slider as much right as you can hit from the other side of the [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well, thank you for the question.

[SPEAKER_00]: And if you guys want to send us questions, please do we love getting some interaction with the listeners, much appreciate that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Ben's on Twitter and Instagram with Ben Badler, I'm at Carlos A.

Klauso.

[SPEAKER_00]: You can also email us if you have any questions, feedback for the show, comments, that's future projection at baseballamerica.com.

[SPEAKER_00]: Ben, any final remarks before we get out of here for today.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, just a...

[SPEAKER_00]: World Series time Carlos.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, got any predictions.

[SPEAKER_00]: I do not do not really.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like a soft lean towards the Dodgers, just because it's always hard to pick against the Dodgers, but I'm mostly just rooting for game or seven games.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's why I'm rooting for that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, give me six, give me seven games.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'll be good for sure.

[SPEAKER_00]: Cool.

[SPEAKER_00]: All right.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, that is the show today.

[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you guys for listening.

[SPEAKER_00]: We really appreciate it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Really support the appreciate the support at baseball america.com.

[SPEAKER_00]: I can get through the end of this podcast and get my words together.

[SPEAKER_00]: But really appreciate you guys listening and hanging out with us.

[SPEAKER_00]: Hope you have a great weekend.

[SPEAKER_00]: Hope you enjoy the start of the world series until next time.

[SPEAKER_00]: So long.