[SPEAKER_00]: Hello and welcome to future projection this episode 144 of the show.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm Carlos Clause joined as always by Ben Badler.

[SPEAKER_00]: What's going on Ben?

[SPEAKER_00]: How you doing?

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm good Carlos.

[SPEAKER_01]: We're fully into offseason prospect mode right now.

[SPEAKER_01]: We got all of our NL East Top 10s on the site right now.

[SPEAKER_01]: Plugin away at the rest of the top 30s about you.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm good doing great I mean it was a phenomenal world series and probably give some quick world series thoughts here before we get into the meet of the show but we also got a new positive review on the podcast as well so thank you for that another reminder that if you guys enjoy the show, haven't reviewed or rated the show wherever you're listening we always do appreciate that feedback on the show give any comments or questions happy to take those as well at future projection at baseballamerica.com but quickly been before we get into [SPEAKER_00]: kind of the bulk of our show.

[SPEAKER_00]: What are your thoughts on the 2025 World Series, the Dodgers becoming back to back champions?

[SPEAKER_00]: I mentioned it briefly with Peter Flaherty and another podcast on the draft feed on the main BA podcast feed, but um...

[SPEAKER_00]: It's top two world series that I have memories of in my lifetime, and the 2001 world series is brought up frequently, as one of the better ones in recent memory, but I don't really have memories of that one, but I think this one gave us really everything we could ask for.

[SPEAKER_00]: It was close games, it was back and forth, crazy plays, extra innings in game seven.

[SPEAKER_00]: Unless you're just a real fan of pristine base running, I think this world series is, [SPEAKER_00]: About as good as you could have asked for, so I'm thrilled.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we're always hoping for a game seven as neutral observers.

[SPEAKER_00]: And obviously, BlueJace fans might feel a little bit disappointed, but as mentioned in plenty of other places, they have nothing to be disappointed about.

[SPEAKER_00]: They played really well.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's just a blast, I think.

[SPEAKER_00]: Again, like it's this one or the 2016 World Series for me are the best World Series I can remember watching.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we kind of...

[SPEAKER_01]: Imagine if that brewers, Dodgers series got flipped with the, with the Dodgers Blue J series and that word Dodgers series was a world series.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, right.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like what I'll let them like be disappointing, boring and disappointing, but [SPEAKER_01]: to have a go that way and that 18 in a game was just insane.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, the whole series was was just great.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_01]: We're not breaking any new ground here.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, just an appreciation of the world series since it did end.

[SPEAKER_00]: in between this episode and our most recent episode um actually want to ask you about the Rockies as well before we get into some in at least prospects breakdown but the opposite end of the world series yeah yeah the opposite at the other end of baseball the baseball continuum um kind of surprising news to hear that [SPEAKER_00]: The Rockies had two finalists between Amiel Sade and Matt Foreman and neither of those men will be running the team, which I imagine, if I was a Rockies fan either of them being hired, would be great news.

[SPEAKER_00]: No, going in a different direction.

[SPEAKER_00]: weird situation for Colorado.

[SPEAKER_00]: Any thoughts on that beyond what's what's been out there?

[SPEAKER_01]: Just a disaster season on the field and the disaster continues off the field.

[SPEAKER_01]: If you have two finalists for your you know whether it's GM president, Chobb, and you somehow end up hiring neither of those finalists because it sounds like they both [SPEAKER_01]: than that.

[SPEAKER_01]: If you're, if you work in a front office and you're, you know, you've risen up to become an assistant GM, especially if you've never, you know, you never played the game and, you know, the major lease before what higher career aspiration can you have, then running, having one of the 30 jobs that is running in MLB team running at baseball operations, [SPEAKER_01]: No, but he wants to take that job.

[SPEAKER_01]: They, you know, homiell and metformin are to, you know, very highly regarded people.

[SPEAKER_01]: And obviously it's like a disclosure.

[SPEAKER_01]: We metformin used to be an intern at Baseball, America.

[SPEAKER_01]: So bias, as if you want to call it then.

[SPEAKER_00]: How many?

[SPEAKER_00]: You overlapped with him, I did not.

[SPEAKER_00]: It was either for just like a year.

[SPEAKER_00]: Less than a year.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't remember what the internship situation was back then.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and he contributed to us beyond that, including in Prospect, Hamburg.

[SPEAKER_01]: You guys can pick up a 2011 or 12 handbook and see his name in those chapters, but it's just, it's very clear that ownership is just such a huge impediment for them in Colorado, right now.

[SPEAKER_01]: If you have an or any organization of baseball that needs to bring in a lot of new people and new ideas and new processes, not necessarily everything they do in the organization, but certainly in majorly decisions.

[SPEAKER_01]: I would say certainly in the draft as well, like it's a rebuilding team and their farm system.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think is particularly good.

[SPEAKER_01]: Where do you go from here if you have talented people who don't want to take the job in part because they're being told, well, we can't, you can't bring in who you want to run your departments and staff the way you want to.

[SPEAKER_01]: guaranteed, but you probably will be in the running for other right GM or president jobs that come up in the future.

[SPEAKER_01]: Do you want to uproot your family and leave for a job where?

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I mean, that's actually like the salaries can be probably significantly higher in Colorado.

[SPEAKER_01]: So that's even more of a red flag that they're turning it down and saying, no, I don't want this because it seems like a losing [SPEAKER_01]: out in three or four years and it's going to be hard to turn it around.

[SPEAKER_01]: If I can't implement the vision and processes that I want to have.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's like a decision about.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is obviously the pinnacle where you're trying to get in your baseball career for most people in front offices, but is it worth it if you think you're destined to fail and that might prevent you from then stepping into a future job with a better situation or an ownership group that's more willing to either give you the resources or just the decision making authority to kind of mold the organization as you want.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it doesn't seem appealing if you're just going to be [SPEAKER_00]: Limited the very day you step into this new job when presumably kind of the organization can be built as you Intend it to be built if that's not the case I don't blame either of the two for for stepping away from the chance to run the on the ship there and I think that would be the case for a lot of assistant GMs if they were in that spot to interview for that job, so if [SPEAKER_01]: If you're the Rockies, I mean, if you're the owner of the Rockies, I mean, obviously, I know like a lot of the fans want you to sell the team and I'll be the best way forward for the organization, but that don't sound like that's going to happen.

[SPEAKER_01]: What do you do?

[SPEAKER_01]: I think I think you have to go out of your hiding capping yourself.

[SPEAKER_00]: You're not getting the best available.

[SPEAKER_00]: Applicant like they're probably going to be people that you move on to now that are not at the top of your list to hire that are more willing to accept it because it's just more unlikely that those people got a chance for that job in the first place, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: It feels like the natural kind of course this takes.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think you have to go unconventional in your hiring process now and that is just not I'd think in the Rockies DNA.

[SPEAKER_01]: So if I were them and I was I mean, [SPEAKER_01]: You know, intent on saying, no, like we're keeping certain people in these positions, we're going to do certain things are, you know, the way I, I want to do it as an owner.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think maybe you, you got to go like under the assistant GM level and just identify somebody, whether it's within your own organization within the Rockies who is under [SPEAKER_01]: outside the organization in one of the other, 2019's, whether you're looking at the Dodgers or the Brewers or whatever other organization that you wanna be like or that you think runs, you know, as a really good front office, look for somebody below the Assistant GM level who can skip multiple levels who has the potential to be [SPEAKER_01]: a GM in the future with more experience and just hire them right now.

[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe they're still in their 20s.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, look like John, John Daniels, the L Epstein, I think both of them were hired in their 20s.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think both were assistant GMs previously, but I think you might have to hire somebody like that where it's like, okay, right now you're making [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, like, whatever they're making, you can easily, you know, five to 10x their salary and give them the opportunity to be a GM and kind of, I was like, cut the line, but skip levels and take that job and, okay, so there's maybe a steeper learning curve in year one.

[SPEAKER_01]: whatever, like the Rockies are not going anywhere in 2026 anyway, obviously like the draft, the international signings, all that, is important and trade decisions are important to hit on.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I think either that or somebody who has been or had been in a front office before, who's not in that role now, who's maybe just left baseball, but who could come back in and take over that role, who wants to get back in, but there's not that many people.

[SPEAKER_01]: like that.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I would just go, not necessarily younger, but it probably would skew younger with somebody who's a lower on the totem pole in a baseball operations department.

[SPEAKER_01]: Who you think is really smart, really bright, and has a chance to be a GM in the future and hire them and offer them that job and pull whatever handcuffs on them.

[SPEAKER_01]: The [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the weird situation, I guess we'll see what happens with it.

[SPEAKER_00]: But, um, probably not what I'm saying.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'll be my good.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, there would be surprising to me if they went for the less experienced ultra young route at this stage, but who knows?

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, let's talk some prospects.

[SPEAKER_00]: We've got, as you mentioned, National League East Top 10s rolling out this week, as you guys are listening to the podcast, all five of the NLE's teams are up and live on the site.

[SPEAKER_00]: I guess unless you're like a really early bird, I think we're posting them in the morning every day.

[SPEAKER_00]: So at some point, you're releasing in the middle of the day, I'm Friday.

[SPEAKER_00]: All five and at least teams are are up and available.

[SPEAKER_00]: We've got chats rolling out at 2 p.m.

Eastern with all of these updates.

[SPEAKER_00]: It was fun to do my annual Braves chat when that was released earlier this week, but the NL East Benzers particular team and I think we've done this now for out of this at the fourth year, but each year around this time, we kind of dive into each division.

[SPEAKER_00]: In conjunction with these rollouts of the prospects and kind of give a state of the system, talk through the farm, talk through interesting players, kind of line up how we like these systems.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's a real fun way to just dive in and give first in all these prospects and hopefully send out some information on what's happening with these teams.

[SPEAKER_00]: What does their particular team you'd like to start with today?

[SPEAKER_01]: the best farm system in this division has to be the meds, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think there could be a case maybe made for the marlins, but those are the two.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think if I was to pick one, I probably would lean meds because I think there is a greater like quality of depth of top.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like I think there's this a greater volume of players inside this top 10 that I'm excited about.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I do think the marlins top end group is [SPEAKER_00]: is appealing as well, but let's start with the meds.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think the meds are a good step ahead of the marlins in their farm system.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not even sure where the marlins would have in edge here.

[SPEAKER_01]: No one like Nolan McLean versus Thomas White is an interesting one.

[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe, I mean, no, no, no, no, is Nolan McLean the best right-handed pitching prospect in baseball.

[SPEAKER_01]: Right now, Thomas White, I think is the best left hand at pitching prospect in the game.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, both of those guys look electric.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think if you look at our, so we have an updated BA grade scale, which I don't know if it's worth going into on this podcast or maybe a future podcast.

[SPEAKER_00]: But JJ wrote about kind of the tweaks we've made, but if you're just looking at top 10 prospects in each of these systems, [SPEAKER_00]: And filtering for grades, the meds or excuse me, the marlins are the only team that has three players with an adjusted grade of 50 or higher.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I think if you were like a real [SPEAKER_00]: Van of like, my top end guys, if they're really good, that's gonna make up for a lot of the depth arguments that I think the Mets are able to make beyond that, but between Thomas White, Robby Snilling, I've our cat, those three players all have a just a grade of 50 or higher.

[SPEAKER_00]: The Mets have multiple, they have no McLean and Carson Binge, but maybe you're a little less excited about certain players, but that's I think the case that you can make if you are a Marlon's fan.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't know.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think the Met's haven't been on high-end guys on the number of guys who are going to be in our top 100 overall and depth too, but yeah, you want to talk, Met's.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, let's get into it.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, starting out with Nolan McLean at the top right hand a pitcher, one of the better pitching prospects in baseball, Carson Bench, has just continued to be really, really good.

[SPEAKER_00]: And Alfield Air, first round pick from 2024.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if we need to run down the entire list.

[SPEAKER_00]: You want to go play or buy player.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I think it's a, it's a nice collection of power arms in this system and also, [SPEAKER_00]: up the middle bats and even the bats that are not up the middle profiles, I think there are reasons to be really excited about what they can do offensively.

[SPEAKER_00]: I was just pulling some data for the hitters and each of these systems and it's impressive the number of hitters in the Met system that kind of land at the top of the list here when you're looking at just under the hood metrics expected way to on base average guys like Carson Benz, Jacob Rimer, Ryan Clifford, AJ Ewing, they all [SPEAKER_00]: right really well and sort of these advanced offensive metrics.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I think there's a good combination of proximity, impact pitching talent and impact hitting talent to really well-rounded system in my mind.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think probably six guys who end up being top 100 prospects or in that conversation, you could maybe expand it beyond that too, but I just think it's it's a really strong top 10 [SPEAKER_01]: Do you think Nolan McLean has a chance to be a number one starter or of a number two, I mean, the stuff in the fastball breaking ball is electric the way he looked when he came up was really really exciting.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we have him great at Medite, in particular, has him great at kind of right on the fringe of a number one or number two.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's got a 65 high grade, which put him like in the ballpark, like with the stuff to be there.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's got three plus pitches in addition to a 70 grade sweeper.

[SPEAKER_00]: I guess if he can become, [SPEAKER_00]: a number of one will ultimately depend on like what does the command get to.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's fine right now.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think he probably doesn't have the typical command you would associate with an ace.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so maybe that's the one question mark that you have.

[SPEAKER_00]: it's a repeatable delivery.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's no reason for me to think that like he can't continue to make strides in the controlled apartment.

[SPEAKER_00]: He does have the two way background and maybe you could say that he's like more new to pitching or focusing on pitching full time than the typical prospect of his age at this level.

[SPEAKER_00]: But he certainly has the stuff to be a number one.

[SPEAKER_00]: And my mind maybe he's more like a number two that maybe pitches like a number one occasionally.

[SPEAKER_00]: confidently go out and say, yeah, we project this guy to be a legit number one.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know how many pitching prospects, like I felt comfortable saying that with, I don't know about you.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think he could be, yeah, I mean, I think the part about command is fair, but I also think that's something that he can, like it's not like he's wild.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's the case with him.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's not like, you know, where Jacob Mizzie orowski was.

[SPEAKER_00]: a year ago or like a sea ever going to throw enough strikes like now he throws enough strikes just as it can be like you said number one right yeah and if I if me talking about a medicine like I thought as commander control was bad I did not mean to like give that off it's mostly just like the number ones have great command not just good or solid command.

[SPEAKER_01]: No I think he's he has a very strong case to be the best pitching prospect in baseball right now.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, that's kind of crazy to say just given what he was as a prospect coming out of college.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I'm always on the beat the drum of stopping a two way player when you're in college and focus on what you're better at.

[SPEAKER_00]: But Nolan McLean was like seriously a hitting prospect when he was in college and it was kind of like a part time picture that just had this [SPEAKER_00]: wipe out pure stuff and great arm talent.

[SPEAKER_00]: I was very very excited about the sort of picture he could be.

[SPEAKER_00]: If he just focused on pitching, I never would have thought we'd be talking about him as a potential top pitching prospect in the game at number two starter that he's far exceeded my expectations for for what he could do if he's stopped hitting, but it's been really cool to see.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, I love their top two pitching prospects with him, Jonah Tong, I really like Jonah Tong.

[SPEAKER_01]: 162 strikeouts in 102 and he's in double a, comes at you with that fastball from straight over the top.

[SPEAKER_01]: So that helps him get that big carry, 19, 20 inches of VIVB on that fastball, a lot of ride to miss bats.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, and that it's, you know, it's sitting 94, 96, touching 98.

[SPEAKER_01]: especially the movement on that pitch and he gets very good extension out front to that gets a lot of swing and miss.

[SPEAKER_01]: His change up, which is the pitch that I talked about earlier in the year being an underrated pitch.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't I don't think it's underrated anymore, but it is still a plus pitch.

[SPEAKER_01]: He sells it really well.

[SPEAKER_01]: Off his fastball.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's 10 miles an hour, [SPEAKER_01]: has become the underrated part of his repertoire.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's tight spin, 2600 plus RPM.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's that big breaking curve with a lot of depth to it, 45% misrate on that pitch when he was in the minor leagues, which is very high, not quite as high as his change up.

[SPEAKER_01]: But it did seem like the curveball early in the year was really good.

[SPEAKER_01]: As the year went on, wasn't missing as many bats, the pitch is still there and overall the results against it were great.

[SPEAKER_01]: The problem is that he just the execution of it is not consistent within the strike zone.

[SPEAKER_01]: He doesn't land it as often as he needs to.

[SPEAKER_01]: And even if it's, you know, if you're freezing hitter with a curve ball.

[SPEAKER_01]: But it's a ball, like that doesn't, that doesn't help you out, but the raw pitch itself, I think is still there and maybe a little bit under-appreciated now, just because of, you know, I know the results weren't great, and it's very brief, bigly call up at the end of the year, but like the, [SPEAKER_01]: the fastball, the change-up, I really like the curveball to obviously, I think the command still needs to get tightened up, but I'm a big fan.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, if you're right about the breaking ball, then I'll probably wind up being a little too low.

[SPEAKER_00]: On Jonathan, I'm certainly lower on him than you are.

[SPEAKER_00]: I just have questions about pitch diversity in his arsenal.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, he used the fastball change of combination [SPEAKER_00]: It's not a very enough arsenal.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, he's consistently had control question marks.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's always had a walk right north of 10% throughout his minor league career.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just uncertain of how much better that actually gets.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm just lower on what the breaking stuff is right now.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, maybe it's a pitch that improves, like you said, you're more bullish on it.

[SPEAKER_00]: And you think it's underrated.

[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe I'm underwriting it.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I just wonder, like, [SPEAKER_00]: If those pitches don't take a step forward, if he is, just so dependent on the forcing fastball and the change up, and if the strikes are this scattered, I'm a little skeptical of what the upside is.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, he threw the change up for strikes, 67% of the time in the minor leagues beyond that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Everything that he threw was fringy strikes and non-fastball change up secondaries for him were like, [SPEAKER_00]: very erratic in terms of locations.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I think he has a long way to go in terms of throwing those pitches and just showing that they can be usable more than 15% of the time in any capacity whether it's a curve ball, but it's a slider.

[SPEAKER_00]: Just another wrinkle to his arsenal I would like to see before I'm all in, but I certainly think he's to a solid top 100 prospect.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's a me top 50.

[SPEAKER_01]: You think that's too rich because I kind of have them up there.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_00]: As we kind of go through this process and talk through more players and I get a better feel for like what my top 50 would actually be.

[SPEAKER_00]: I might have a strong take like right around that range feels like it's fair.

[SPEAKER_00]: hard for me to say with any certainty.

[SPEAKER_00]: At this point, you would have him definitely top 50 or right around 50 or early.

[SPEAKER_00]: How are you pushing him?

[SPEAKER_00]: He'd be definitely top 50 for me.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think he probably would be more in the deep plus range for me, but again, I guess we'll see me if there are fewer prospects around the league that I actually like.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if I even have like, I mean, earlier in the year, I mentioned start to relieve your questions.

[SPEAKER_00]: 10% walker is not is not a good walker for for starting pitcher.

[SPEAKER_00]: Um, so yeah, I don't know.

[SPEAKER_01]: What was system car some bench great man.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, him and you you were way higher on him.

[SPEAKER_00]: I draft day than I was.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think you in Peter Flaherty were both really high.

[SPEAKER_00]: I was a little bit more suspect.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just the swing itself.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like I thought it was just kind of funky to many moving parts, but [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, he's been good in all areas, well-rounded, profile, good hitting ability, power, runs well, runs well enough, good field or good arm, like pretty well-rounded, I would much other have binge than tongs, I'll say that.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's the order that we have here.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if you're high enough on tongs that you would personally have it flipped, but Ben just definitely a player that I can easily get excited about.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's close.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's close for me.

[SPEAKER_01]: It was a great pick.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, Ben's in trade savage were, [SPEAKER_01]: Those are my two favorite picks last year in the first round.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm, you know, outside that outside of teams top picking the top 10, like, yeah, I mean, I like, you're not getting knickers, you're not getting chase burns.

[SPEAKER_01]: So you're picking it right, 19, 30, 20th.

[SPEAKER_01]: But he had a great year and I was great in high A, he was great in double A, slow down when he got to triple A, but there was nothing there that happened where I'm like, oh, this is caused for long term concern, but tracks, pitches, well, recognizes, [SPEAKER_01]: pitches out of the hand pretty early.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's got great play discipline, works as walks.

[SPEAKER_01]: You're right.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, this swing itself has some unorthodox moves.

[SPEAKER_01]: He sets up wide open.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: And he closes himself all the way with the ways like kick works and then swings it back.

[SPEAKER_00]: But but at this point, I don't care.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think he's shown that it just works for him, you know.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and he's he has really good hand eye coordination.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's it's so good.

[SPEAKER_01]: So you don't see him swing and miss much and he hits ball hard.

[SPEAKER_01]: He does he hit for huge power in games right now.

[SPEAKER_01]: No, I mean 15 home runs in 116 games, although once you got away from Brooklyn, which is just.

[SPEAKER_01]: murder on left-handed pull power, hit eight home runs in 32 games in double a, but his approach is very much to just rely on that barrel accuracy and use the opposite field without a lot of [SPEAKER_01]: I think the met's see the same thing that we do.

[SPEAKER_01]: And we're gonna, you know, which is that there's a good foundation of the heater there with untouched power potential once he learns to get that barrel out front earlier on certain pitches to try to pull in the air for power.

[SPEAKER_01]: Because when he does swing, when he does make contact, it's hard contact.

[SPEAKER_01]: But if you look at just a long prospects in the Met's organization with prospects so not your 27-year-old journeymen in AAA, his 90th percentile exiophilosity is higher than anyone except for Ryan Clifford and Randy Guzmod, who's this six foot four hulking first base corner outfielder in LA.

[SPEAKER_01]: So if he figured out how to do that, [SPEAKER_01]: will see optimistic that he will.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think he can be a three to four win type player.

[SPEAKER_00]: I agree.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I pull just the hitting sets for all the players inside the top 10 that we have that afford this year in Carson Benj's expected way to base average was the best of that group.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's a 21 player group and him and Jacob Rimer also in the Met's system.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're at the very top of [SPEAKER_00]: pitch selection impact, like you mentioned, the angles probably could be improved if you want to see more power.

[SPEAKER_00]: But again, we say this a lot with these pure hitter types who spray the ball across the field and are going to hit the gas for doubles.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't necessarily think you need to change the approach fully to just have him turn into this.

[SPEAKER_00]: Um, extreme pull heavy fly ball type like if he naturally gets to some more homeruns by trying to selectively hunt some pitches he can do damage with great and if not I think he'll have more than enough extra base ability to have a respectable slug and percentage and just be a very well rounded hitter who also does things for you defensively.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, are you do you have a specific thought and whether he's a definite center fielder or definite corner outfielder and does the maybe power question mark.

[SPEAKER_00]: change how you would feel about him depending on that defensive role, or you bullish on him regardless of where he's playing in the field.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's more likely to be corner, you know, we have as an average runner.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's really hard to be an average runner and play center field in the big leagues unless you have insane instincts because there's just too many other guys.

[SPEAKER_01]: who have good defensive instincts in center field and they're also like 70 or 80 or so.

[SPEAKER_01]: But if you put them in a corner out field, I think he still profiles really well there to be that.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, again, three to four win type guy.

[SPEAKER_01]: Agreed.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, any other guys you want to mention here?

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I'd like to touch on Jonathan Santucci at some point, but he's 10th on the list.

[SPEAKER_00]: So if there are any particular players you want to hit on before we get to there, feel free.

[SPEAKER_00]: I know AJ Ewing is always a player, your big fan of as well.

[SPEAKER_00]: So there are some bad-ler favorites in this top 10.

[SPEAKER_01]: AJ Ewing is an outstanding draft pick by the meds.

[SPEAKER_01]: They got him in the fourth round.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if in Ohio High School in 2023.

[SPEAKER_01]: And he only signed for $675,000.

[SPEAKER_01]: So it wasn't some $1 million, $2 million.

[SPEAKER_01]: Huge overslaught deal.

[SPEAKER_01]: I thought it was steel at the time.

[SPEAKER_01]: I thought he could have fit as a second round pick if somebody wanted to take him there.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm trying to think of how to phrase this.

[SPEAKER_01]: There were a lot of teams that stopped scouting AJ Uwing in the spring of his draft year.

[SPEAKER_01]: I remember speaking with a scout that spring and he said, yeah, I like AJ Uwing.

[SPEAKER_01]: But there was one day where he went to see him.

[SPEAKER_01]: He was like, I was the only scout there at the game.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think there was an event the summer before where [SPEAKER_01]: You know, maybe he rub some scouts the wrong way with their perception.

[SPEAKER_01]: I would say of his, you know, make up or maturity.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I hate even like talking about that.

[SPEAKER_01]: Unless there's something highly specific.

[SPEAKER_01]: Cause I think a lot of it is just nonsense or yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I think you're point here is like a lot of people allowed it to their perception of that to stew them in their own direction on the decision.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it was wrong.

[SPEAKER_01]: AJ Heeling is a great prospect and a lot of teams just missed the boat.

[SPEAKER_01]: on this guy and there were there were a handful of teams that were in on him and obviously the Mets were won and and credit to the Mets because AJ Ewing looks great.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean it's 20-year-old left-handed hitter, good swing, high contact guy, good play discipline, plus plus speed.

[SPEAKER_01]: He was in double A this year.

[SPEAKER_01]: The components are there to be a high OBP guy, not the power, at least not right now, but he's not also not [SPEAKER_01]: Like just like a little slap and dash guy, either he does make quality contact the EVs were up to 111 miles an hour this year, but yeah, it was only three home runs this year and some of that is just because, okay, he played in Brooklyn, which is brutal for for left hand hitters, but [SPEAKER_01]: And I think some of it is just that he's still learning kind of like Bench, which pitches to try to ambush or get the head out for an on to try to pull the ball in the air because right now, it's more of an all-field's approach, the point where more of his ball is in the air, go the opposite way, then they do to the pole side, which also he said, not necessarily [SPEAKER_01]: could show more home run juice once he learns which pitches to try to pull for damage, probably not like a 25 plus future home run guy like Carson Ben, he's going to have more power than AJU, but I think there's some more on tat power potential in there and he's a former shortstop who still does get some time in the infield.

[SPEAKER_01]: They'll play him at second base, but [SPEAKER_00]: uh...

he's out in center fields playing a premium position in the city plays really well out there he had sounds like the defense has been really good in center field obviously great runner the jumps on like they've improved they've improved as he's gotten more experience he's got above average arm strength so even if like the meds at the point where he's contributing at the major league level have [SPEAKER_00]: some lockdown center field or the fact that he could play all three outfield positions and play corners, maybe even to a plus level, have versatility to play shortstop, second base.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if he's got an exposure to third base, but I assume if he can play short and second with the arm that he has that he could be able to fill in at third and a pinch as well, that versatility is massively valuable.

[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, I just like seeing swing decisions on base ability.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's been a menace on the bases I don't know if you expect him to be consistent based on the right in the future I would expect him to be and think that continues Yeah, there's a lot unless you just like really need all of your prospects to hit for a lot of power AJ uing is like we're kind of praising the entirety of the game here as we go down the report Yeah, I mean, it's not it [SPEAKER_00]: Ryan Clifford power and Clifford is 70 power and draws a lot of walks.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's also not a Ryan Clifford hit tool or glove.

[SPEAKER_00]: So you take it and you take some and you leave some.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, Ryan Clifford is a guy who's, you know, it's something that's a good player to have as like, you know, toward the back of your top 10, a guy who's got 70 power drew 85 walks this year, strikeouts are high, but not like, [SPEAKER_01]: Spencer Jones high either.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's first base or, you know, maybe a not so great left field or right field or but guys just knocking knocking on the door.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, I like Jacob Rimer as well.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I mentioned that his just better ball debt.

[SPEAKER_00]: It was really good.

[SPEAKER_00]: He still has some injuries.

[SPEAKER_00]: Sounds like he's starting to tap into the power a little bit more frequently.

[SPEAKER_00]: Jonathan San Tucci at the back end of this list is kind of a bit of a wild card for me.

[SPEAKER_00]: I really want to like Jonathan San Tucci because I've just seen him so good when he's throwing all three pitches.

[SPEAKER_00]: The fastball command and like what the depth of the arsenal is actually going to be [SPEAKER_00]: A ton, it's a very good pitch.

[SPEAKER_00]: I wish he was a little bit less reliant on that pitch because I know once in TG has struggled, it's been because you just can't locate the fast balls for strikes and hit or sit on the slider and so the slider backs up because hitters are expecting it.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's nothing else to really challenge him.

[SPEAKER_00]: The control did improve.

[SPEAKER_00]: which I think is really good to see that Mets have done some really nice things in the pitching development in recent years.

[SPEAKER_00]: So he's a guy that I was just happy to see in the back of this top 10, the athleticism and the pure arm talent are fascinating to me, striking out 30% of the batters that he faced this year was solid.

[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, just if he can add a little bit more to the arsenal, show a little bit more fastball command, I'll be ready to jump fully and [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, San Tucci, Jack Wanger, you know, two good arms who've had success in double a at the back of this list.

[SPEAKER_01]: The one guy we got questions on about who wasn't on the list was LA on Pania.

[SPEAKER_01]: They're big international signing from this year who's great in the DSL questions asking why he wasn't on the top 10.

[SPEAKER_01]: I like Pania.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, you can make a case for him to be on the list, but I think it's just it's a really strong top 10.

[SPEAKER_01]: to be able to crack right now again, like six probably top 100 players, at least in that conversation, and then seven to 10, all of those guys have been in AA or AAA with Cliff or Riber, two guys have either previously been on the top 100, or who we've already had in [SPEAKER_01]: Pain is just a lot of riskier if you want it to bet on the position player more so than the pitcher.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think you can make a case or pain you'll be in the top 10.

[SPEAKER_01]: He certainly has more positional value compared to Ryan Clifford, but you know that you're talking about a 17 year old in the DSL versus a guy who's that success in AA and is one step away from the big league.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I think you could put LA on pain you in the top 10 and I could see him joining [SPEAKER_01]: the top 100 at some point, maybe even next year, because he, after a really, and famously, in our, obviously, like, narrow universe, like, I don't think it made the front page in New York Times or anything, but, [SPEAKER_01]: After a really rough start for him, he ended up with one of the better OPS marks in the league.

[SPEAKER_01]: Good left handed swing, which pretty good left handed.

[SPEAKER_01]: So it gets a little bit steep, it can get him in trouble, but it's good ability to maneuver the barrel, make a lot of contact.

[SPEAKER_01]: He knows the strike zone.

[SPEAKER_01]: He hit for a big home run power in his first year out.

[SPEAKER_01]: I guess I also just want to dispel this notion that that's nonsense idea that somehow baseball America doesn't like Eleon Payne, like if you're saying that, I don't know, I think you obviously never read my work and I've covered Eleon Payne more than anyone that at BA or outside of BA, but [SPEAKER_01]: I think there's like some thought that like because Josh on his DSL prospect ranking had a number 25 that somehow that's like some strong sign of hate or whatever and I don't want to like speak for him but it is a top prospects list like if he wasn't a good prospect he wouldn't be on a top prospects list especially in a league of like 1,000 plus players [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but I think if you're a scout going in to see Ellie on pain, you're and you're expecting to see Francisco and door 2.0 or some great defender at shortstop, you're going to come away disappointed, but that's just because your expectations were not in line with reality for the player, like if in a perfect world scenario, you're hoping he's you're hoping Ellie on pain, yet turns into Raphael Deborah so.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, like, what about Raphael Devers would make anyone think that this is somebody you should expect to be a great defender at shortstop.

[SPEAKER_01]: We've always said he's in offensive, oriented, shortstop who's likely to go to third base, should continue to get the chance at shortstop, cause always surprises.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure we'll talk about one of them get to the, when the fill is later, but maybe an outside chance at second base, but it's always hard to dial that in with precision [SPEAKER_01]: these players are 16 or 17 years old, especially as amateurs, but yeah, I mean that's it's a really good prospect and when you have a guy like that outside your top 10, just another sign that the farm system is in a pretty strong spot.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we have the Metz the number nine on our midseason talent rankings.

[SPEAKER_00]: Would you expect them to rank higher than that in the same range?

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, as we're talking to the system, yeah, that's my, my intuition as well.

[SPEAKER_00]: As we're talking to the system, I've also come fully on board with you.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'll take the Metz over.

[SPEAKER_00]: over the marlins because I do think the biggest gap between them is once you get past four on the marlins list like basically everyone on this mess list is a lot more exciting and there are still some more holes you can poke in with some of the players in the top four of the marlins but let's switch over to Miami now.

[SPEAKER_00]: I assume you think this is the next best system in this division.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: I agree with that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, I would say both the meds and the marlin systems.

[SPEAKER_00]: I would just call them both good.

[SPEAKER_00]: Once we get to the other three, maybe more mix on whether I would call them good or bad.

[SPEAKER_00]: Um, but I play play of saying, I mean, yes, some of some of these systems are our bad, but I think once we get past marlins, we're into like mediocrity and worse in terms of like where they're going to stack up among our 30 teams.

[SPEAKER_00]: But the marlins, we still got some good stuff to talk about.

[SPEAKER_00]: led by Thomas White left in a pitcher who Benus been scouting since I think probably he was a fifth grader seems like based on all the reporting games he'd been out at to see him.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's leading the list another pitcher like Nolan McLean with the Met to Out Imagine has a case as [SPEAKER_00]: One of the very best pitching prospects in the game, followed by another talented left in a pitcher and Robby Snelling, and then two more players, I think I've pretty convincing cases to be on the top, 100 to round out the top four in the Iva Arcette, their most recent first round pick out of Oregon State, and then Joe Mack, who's a very impressive power hitting catcher with defensive chops as well, where would you like to start here with the Marlins Ben?

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, or else Thomas Way, I mean, he might be the best pitching prospect in baseball.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's definitely the top of left-hand pitching prospect in the game.

[SPEAKER_01]: This is, this is a pitcher with the upside to be a number one starter.

[SPEAKER_01]: And he looks like he's on the path to be in a front-hand guy, whether it's a number one or a number two in a big league rotation.

[SPEAKER_01]: And someone who's going to make his major league debut in 2026 as a 21 year old.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's always been a tall F-D with an easy delivery.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's packed on even more weight.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's listed at six, five, two, 40 now.

[SPEAKER_01]: So the velocity has ticked up as he's put on more weight and got in stronger.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's touching a hundred miles an hour.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's sitting 94 to 97 with very little effort and that fastball explodes past hitters.

[SPEAKER_00]: Um, he's never really had effort to I'm assuming it's even more impressive now with how much stronger and bigger he is, but it was always kind of shocking to see how easy he was able to generate that upper 90s velocity as a high school or a teenager.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's a start contrast when you see guys who have big velocity at a young age, but are just super max effort.

[SPEAKER_01]: Guys, [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that's the pitch that ever since he was probably like a junior in high school.

[SPEAKER_01]: I thought would be his best secondary pitch.

[SPEAKER_01]: Same old firm.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's gotten even better since then.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's got that heavy drop.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's got a lot of tailing action away from rites.

[SPEAKER_01]: So guys are geared up to hit that mid to upper 90s.

[SPEAKER_01]: pitch and then he drops in that change up on them with the same arm speed and it just neuters righties.

[SPEAKER_01]: So he he doesn't have any platoon splits and the slider too is a good weapon against lefties and and righties also so he can manipulate shapes with it.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I think it's at its nastiest when it has that that wide sweep and two plane depth to it just gives him another [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, we talked about this with Jonathan.

[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like we've got to talk about it with Thomas Way.

[SPEAKER_00]: We talked about it with, [SPEAKER_00]: and the plane as well, but the control and the strikes.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, this has kind of always been the big question with Thomas White.

[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like at the start of his Marley career, the control and command was better than I expected it to be, particularly in 2024 when he posted a 9.2% walk rate.

[SPEAKER_00]: That backed up in 2025.

[SPEAKER_00]: He walked 13.6% of the batter.

[SPEAKER_00]: He faced across three different levels of the minor leagues.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now it did come with a phenomenal 38.6% strikeout rate.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's no question as the pure stuff to be a number one.

[SPEAKER_00]: Do you think the control is still an air of his game?

[SPEAKER_00]: He can make strides in.

[SPEAKER_00]: Do you think part of that walker age is maybe like just him expanding the zone more than he needs to?

[SPEAKER_00]: Do you think there's anything that's going to limit him in terms of being able to get the ball over the plate, consistent enough to pitch like a true front of the rotation arm does?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's the one thing that we've always talked about with white going back to high school that it is a super free and easy delivery, but he's six foot five long arms.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's a longer arm stroke and he's not always sinking up that arm out front to repeat that there was many strikes as he should.

[SPEAKER_01]: So he walked 13.6% of hitters this year.

[SPEAKER_01]: But we're talking about a 20 year old who finished [SPEAKER_01]: And it's not like he's wild and all over the place and doesn't know where the ball is going and he does have a good delivery I would bet on him getting to at least average control if it ends up plus I think that's where you have a number one starter right if you great out conservatively has stuff it's three plus pitches being conservative I would put a 70 or at least a future 70 [SPEAKER_01]: They certainly flash 70 right now, but a 70 on both his slider and his changer for a left.

[SPEAKER_01]: If you're a lefty and you're regularly mid to upper 90s touching 100 miles an hour with the results that he gets on that pitch, you could say potentially three 70 grade pitches.

[SPEAKER_01]: So that's it's ace level stuff, but it's just not ace level control right now.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's why I look at a guy like Blake Snill and think that he could easily have a career of that capacity.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, Blake Snill has a career 10.9% walk rate.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's always a guy who's issued his number of free passes.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's been 10% plus the last three years.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's also come with a 30% strikeout rate for his career and his best years he's striking out like nearly 35% of batters.

[SPEAKER_00]: No questions on platoon splits with white because of that lethal change up.

[SPEAKER_00]: Equally effective versus varieties and lefties this year, so I don't expect him to just become this sort of I think the way Jacob describes it in his report a guy who can paint the black consistently and have this precise command [SPEAKER_00]: I don't expect that nor do I think he really needs that to be effective and to still pitch as a like number two pretty, pretty consistently.

[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, just really impressive arm, I guess we'll see if he does.

[SPEAKER_00]: If he does make strides with the command, then watch out, you're looking at it like a bonafide ace.

[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, what about the next lefty and their system, Robbie's smelling, it's been [SPEAKER_01]: kind of a roller coaster.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, for for a guy who's still 21 years old, I mean, first season out of high school after the Padre, he's drafted him.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's our minor league pitcher of the year in 2023, then 2024.

[SPEAKER_01]: The next year he was bad at ERA over five.

[SPEAKER_01]: Obviously, gets traded in the marlins and then he rebounds really nicely this year, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: 250 one ERA [SPEAKER_00]: It was good.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it is a bit odd that he's kind of yo-yo does significantly as he has, but I was really encouraged to see what he did this year.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, in triple Ajax and Ville is a 1.27 ERA 81 strike house in 17 walks in 63.2 innings.

[SPEAKER_00]: It was kind of weird that the control fell apart to the extent that it did in 2024 because I feel like coming out of the draft, [SPEAKER_00]: What always separated, snowing was his touch and feel and in particular his touch and feel with the breaking ball.

[SPEAKER_00]: It was a really hard, impressive, like, two-plane biting pitch that Scouts always just, I remember talking with them.

[SPEAKER_00]: They're like, I don't really understand how he has this sort of feel to land and manipulate that pitch.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so I kind of always assumed control would be a feature of what he does on the mound.

[SPEAKER_00]: If we're talking about the walk rate spiking a bit, [SPEAKER_00]: 8.9% overall in 2024, which is not not that high at all, especially at coming off some of the other pictures we're talking about, but down to 7.1% in 2025, Kerbal still sounds like it's a solid bat missing pitch.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's been up to 99, sitting in the mid 90s, another lefty that just throws incredibly hard.

[SPEAKER_00]: I quite like him, he seems like he's nearly ready to make his major league.

[SPEAKER_00]: The debut, it sounds like he's not even has a chance to break camp with the team, so yeah, I think it's just really well rounded pitching prospect at this point.

[SPEAKER_01]: The marlins are doing a lot of good things with pitching.

[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like he's done that for years, really good.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and through like different development groups to, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: Um, yeah, they, they made delivery adjustments.

[SPEAKER_01]: They got his velocity up where he's sitting 93 95 touch and higher.

[SPEAKER_01]: The secondaries look sharper.

[SPEAKER_01]: The, this version of Robby Snilling looks like a potential mid rotation starter.

[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe, maybe number three, maybe number four with like the upside to be even better.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that I just I got to see a knockout pitch right in there like everything is pretty good and the command improvement was was a key for him There's just not the electricity of the or the like the of the raw stuff itself for me to see a front and starter, but if he develops into a number three for them that's that's a great outcome [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I guess you maybe would want to see a little more power, a little more bite with the curve ball.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like you can maybe say that that's a plus pitch, but if everything else is like solid average above average, you're probably not going to go number one or number two, but I really just like the fact that 72% strike rate with the fast ball, it's better strike rate than you typically see for guys who are using curve balls that [SPEAKER_00]: move as much as this curve ball does.

[SPEAKER_00]: He throws it for strikes, had it above average rate, just for general strikes, let alone curve ball specific strikes.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know necessarily what the quality of the change up in the slider is going to be, sounds like they're both flash, above average if they're consistently above average.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we're looking at average or above average, pitches across the board with control that's solid average or above average.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's a really good picture.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I probably can't say his number number number one or number two, but I would take snilling ahead of Jonah Tongue, or where are you at with those two?

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, when you ask if I would have Jonah Tongue in my top 50, I hesitate, but if I think about Robby's snilling, I'm pretty confident to help be in that range for me personally.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we're going to have to disagree on that one.

[SPEAKER_01]: All right.

[SPEAKER_01]: Robbie Snowys, you get prospect.

[SPEAKER_01]: All right, Martin down.

[SPEAKER_00]: We'll see five years from now.

[SPEAKER_00]: Circle back to who is right.

[SPEAKER_01]: If I probably had to, I mean, as up and down, I guess this will be snowing has been in his career.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if I should make this bet, but I would bet Robbie Snowys probably is better this in there in 2026 if both of these guys are in the big league all year.

[SPEAKER_01]: but I would take Tom.

[SPEAKER_00]: Let's just say, yeah, let's just say, you'll take Tom's career, move forward.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'll take Snellings, circle back in 20 years and we're doing episode number 175 and see how it is.

[SPEAKER_01]: They, what about their drafts?

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, especially what about their 2025 draft in particular?

[SPEAKER_01]: Because they had a tough draft.

[SPEAKER_01]: I thought in 2024, there's taught two picks were P.J.

[SPEAKER_01]: Morelando, I like P.J.

[SPEAKER_01]: Morelando high school, but [SPEAKER_01]: Um, he did not play a ton and what he did.

[SPEAKER_01]: It was 226, 361, 353 in LA as a player who's value is really going to come from what he does in the batters box and is already 20.

[SPEAKER_01]: So he's on the older end for a high school player and then Carter Johnson, their second round pick at a high school, who the bat was supposed to be his calling card.

[SPEAKER_01]: He really struggled 177, 275, 261 all year in LA.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then this year they picked 7th overall.

[SPEAKER_01]: They got iVarket, Supplemental first rounder.

[SPEAKER_01]: They got Clemson outfielder, camcana rella, second rounder, Arizona State Outfielder, Brandon Compton.

[SPEAKER_01]: So all three of those guys are in their top 10 prospects.

[SPEAKER_01]: Did you like Miami's draft?

[SPEAKER_01]: Where are you at on those guys?

[SPEAKER_01]: Or am I, am I too light?

[SPEAKER_01]: Also, maybe on their 24 drift?

[SPEAKER_00]: No, I mean, you like Pijima Orlando better than I did at the time when we both thought 16 is kind of surprising from Orlando.

[SPEAKER_00]: I also was a little skeptical of Carter Johnson.

[SPEAKER_00]: Carter Johnson was always someone who like the swing aesthetically looked really appealing and he had the striputation as being a really advanced hitter.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I personally and my my looks just never saw him perform to the same degree that I did like with a cold Emerson or Kevin McGonagall.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I was lower on that draft, but I will say that 23 draft when they took Noble [SPEAKER_00]: Thomas White is paned out better than Noble Meyer to this point.

[SPEAKER_00]: But what stands out to me is between 23 and 24 and this 25 draft, it seems like there's a lot less risk tolerance here with Miami, like they took two high school pictures, their first two picks, they took two high school hitters.

[SPEAKER_00]: One of whom, maybe the Marlins are just higher on PJ Merlando's defensive profile, but I would have said it's like a corner guy who you're really relying on the bat with.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then in 2025, it's super college heavy.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think the entirety of their draft actually is for your players.

[SPEAKER_00]: They didn't draft a single high school player.

[SPEAKER_00]: They didn't even dip into the jukeau waters.

[SPEAKER_00]: I've our cap felt like a bit of a no-brainer to me at seven.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like he was the consensus top college hitter in a class that was.

[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe a bit lighter at that profile than you would typically like, but at seven overall, I thought he easily could have gone in front of them, so sliding to seven makes a ton of sense.

[SPEAKER_00]: Canorella kind of a similar story.

[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like he has talent that could have easily belonged in the back of the first round that get him at 43.

[SPEAKER_00]: Brainy Compton is not my like personal favorite profile or flavor of player, but he certainly has a ton of raw power.

[SPEAKER_00]: He can really impact the baseball.

[SPEAKER_00]: So if they can get a little bit more of him from the hit tool department that could be a fun player who's maybe corner-limited.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then there are a number of other kind of power program power conference players that drafted beyond that [SPEAKER_00]: Sort of philosophy shift and I've had some changes in personnel and that that's got in department and just in the system Overall, but it's hard for me to not like I've arquette at seven and Cam Canerale at 43 in particular.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think I think Cam Canerale it's a little bit slept on at this point to be honest like people really seem to [SPEAKER_00]: be more afraid of the arm situation with him, but this is a guy who hit well over 300 and three consecutive years at Clemson in the ACC.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think he's a really advanced peer hitter.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's not going to have a ton of power, but I think he's going to get on base.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's going to hit for average.

[SPEAKER_00]: And he is an excellent centerfield defender.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think if you wanted to say he was the best centerfield defender in this class, maybe UNC's can't capley would fight you over that, but I think he has a really strong case.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think even if his arm never gets back to anything that's beyond like a 30 grade arm, I think he's still going to be an impact defender.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm hopeful that the stolen base element of his game comes back to life because he really did put the brakes on just how much he was running in college with that shoulder injury that he dealt with.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I really like Canterralla quite a bit.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, the difference in this profile and someone like an Enrique Bradfield, it's not too different to me and considering like where he was actually picked compared to Bradfield, I think it's a really good value pick.

[SPEAKER_00]: I like embedded them some of the players around him.

[SPEAKER_01]: get him with the marlin spitching group will probably have a sixty arm what time they're done with you.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah I don't know if he was ever even throwing super well before the shoulder injury so we'll see about that but yeah I like him quite a bit.

[SPEAKER_01]: I really like what they did with their twenty twenty five international signing class.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah they're [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, they're big signing.

[SPEAKER_01]: Obviously was Andrew Salis, who's the youngest of the Salis for brothers.

[SPEAKER_01]: He got pushed super aggressively to low a his first year, but they had a ton of good pitching, which is not easy to do in Latin America.

[SPEAKER_01]: Obviously Kevin DeFranck is the head of that class.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's in their top 10 already enormous human being enormous fastball, touching [SPEAKER_01]: Already change up shows promise it's it's firm, but there's movement there hard slider.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'd like to see some more growth from the secondary stuff over the next couple years, not because they're bad is just the area where I think is going to have to refine those pitches more as the velocities obviously there, but.

[SPEAKER_01]: But then you've got Pedro Montero right hand a picture.

[SPEAKER_01]: They got for $35,000.

[SPEAKER_01]: $6.1.

[SPEAKER_01]: Why are he up to 97, 19, 20 inches of IVB on the fastball?

[SPEAKER_01]: Good field has been a sweeper.

[SPEAKER_01]: He had a good year.

[SPEAKER_01]: So did Adriano Moreiro, a right hand a picture from Cuba.

[SPEAKER_01]: $350,000.

[SPEAKER_01]: $6.3 projectable body.

[SPEAKER_01]: Touching 94, more VLO still to come.

[SPEAKER_01]: everything wiggles with him.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's that two seem fastball that zips one way.

[SPEAKER_01]: The sweepers going 3000 plus RPM with a tunnel horizontal action the other way to 20 plus inches consistently of horizontal break.

[SPEAKER_01]: You got Adrian Payne who's probably the biggest project of that group.

[SPEAKER_01]: But you can throw that many in this year.

[SPEAKER_01]: But like six foot seven right hand a pitcher who's [SPEAKER_01]: still figuring out where everything is going, his arms, his legs, the ball, pretty much what you would expect for a young kid who's that tall and gangly, but already up to 99, and then on the position player side, we'll obviously after.

[SPEAKER_01]: Andrew Salis, you got Luis Aronio's $30,000 signing out of Venezuela, switch hitting shortstop, $297,419,476 in the DSL, more walks than still, excuse me, more walks than strikeouts, stole a lot of bases, toolsy, explosive, not very big, he's like five foot [SPEAKER_01]: You know, if by the end of the year for for a signing class, you've got three prospects you feel really good about that's that's a pretty good sign, but the marlins have at least six.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think they should be very very excited about what they did in Latin America this year.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think that this is kind of what you want the system to feel like if you're rebuilding feels like it's training in the right direction.

[SPEAKER_00]: They've added a lot of players and trades in recent years.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think this recent draft is probably what you want to see as a Marlins fan if you've kind of looked at your system and been like.

[SPEAKER_00]: Where all the hitters there are a lot of interesting bats they've now thrown into the system There's a shocking degree of pitching talent from the international market already that you don't typically hear about from that market as Frequently as it seems like the marlins have hit on it.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean different because obviously the headliner.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's it's ridiculous to hear about [SPEAKER_00]: that sort of pure stuff from a player who just turned 17 years old recently.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I think it's training in the right direction.

[SPEAKER_00]: There are some, I think that if you wanted to critique it like some of the hitters, maybe in a majority of their hitters in the top 10 still have some swing and miss questions that [SPEAKER_00]: either need to be ironed out or these players are all going to need to get to their power to stomach those swing and miss questions.

[SPEAKER_00]: I've our cat has those miss questions.

[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe he's going to play a pre-in position though and play it well.

[SPEAKER_00]: Joe Mack seems sort of deals swings and misses, but he is a really impressive defender.

[SPEAKER_00]: Then you get further down, guys.

[SPEAKER_00]: I can't ball him in, Brandon Compton.

[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe not the same sort of of the middle types, but certainly power oriented guys with some miss questions.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I think there's a fun collection of talent here.

[SPEAKER_00]: We rank them 13 at the mid-season.

[SPEAKER_00]: I could easily see them cracking like Top 10, depending on how we're viewing the other landscape around the league.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's a fun system.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think you have Starling Kaba on the opposite end, who does make a lot of content.

[SPEAKER_01]: It has maybe 20 power.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yep, okay.

[SPEAKER_00]: Any other thoughts on Martin's before we go into our next team in the NLACE?

[SPEAKER_00]: Who do you think is this the next team here?

[SPEAKER_00]: I think we should be talking about the nationals, but I think I would take the fillies over the nationals.

[SPEAKER_01]: You think we should be talking about the nationals because they've been rebuilding so much.

[SPEAKER_00]: think of it.

[SPEAKER_00]: And an ideal world, the team that has not been, I mean, has been one of the worst major league teams versus the team that was a legitimate world series, a contender this year with a veteran group of hitters, like that would be the team that I'm looking at saying, oh, it's okay if your farm system is not great.

[SPEAKER_00]: But the nationals, you kind of look at where their system is at at this stage and you probably, [SPEAKER_00]: want a little bit more.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I mean, not probably you definitely do.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, this system is really feels like it's been carried by Eli Willitz, who was only recently acquired as that I'm running over all pick in the 2025 draft.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's not played a lot in pro ball.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's far away.

[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe things would have looked a little bit different if both Harlan Susana and Travis Cora were fully [SPEAKER_00]: In this farm system that you can really hang your hat on and be massively confident unless you're just a huge Eli Willett's fan, which I am and I think he's going to be a very good player, but it's just he's a lot further away.

[SPEAKER_00]: Guys like see for King Luke Dickerson have struggled to varying degrees.

[SPEAKER_00]: Again, the injuries to guys like Susanna Sikora Alex Klemney has great arm talent, but he also has pretty significant control and command questions, so.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're talking about a system that has one definite top 100 player, maybe a second, maybe you could argue for a third, but you probably want more than that and you want multiple top 50 type prospects in your system if you're the nationals and they just don't have that right now.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I know they just graduated Dylan crews and they graduated Brady House and Dale in a while just had a good rookie season.

[SPEAKER_01]: still.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, for a team that's been in rebuild mode, the state of the farm system right now is pretty disappointing.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that's obviously a big reason why they're making so many changes throughout the the organization right now.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, sir, we dive into nationalists here.

[SPEAKER_00]: Do you want to see a lot to fill these?

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I talked about a more than I planned to, so if you want to just kind of continue running around that that works.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, Eli will, I think, is the clear number one guy in this system, I like him a lot, obviously, famously, super young, I mean, what the youngest number one overall pick ever.

[SPEAKER_01]: Always hits, makes a ton of contact, pretty good athlete, up the middle, defender, middle in field, there are no questions about them.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, shortstop second base, I think he [SPEAKER_01]: There's no reason he couldn't play second base.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm probably played at a pretty high level.

[SPEAKER_01]: Power is the question.

[SPEAKER_01]: How much of that is just that he's still 17.

[SPEAKER_01]: And young, basically, should be in high school right now.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, we should be evaluating him against great Emerson and Tyler Spamler and Jacob Lumbard.

[SPEAKER_01]: And those guys, although I would say all of those guys have more power than Eli Woods.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's just like a lack of bad speed.

[SPEAKER_01]: Now as guys get older, they get stronger.

[SPEAKER_01]: They can pick up bad speed, they can add power.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that some more power will come with well, it's just a question of how much?

[SPEAKER_01]: Like does it get to 40, 45 power?

[SPEAKER_01]: If he does, that could be a really good player.

[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, if it ends up being more 30 power, that's, that's the risk, uh, but a ton of contact and super high level baseball instincts baseball IQ, obviously, no surprise is older brother, uh, college player playing for his dad who's a college coach and former big leader himself.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that stands out to me actually about this national top 10 and just some of the hitters they've targeted in recent years.

[SPEAKER_00]: It feels like the nationals of old were very big on just big players, physical players, Elijah Green was obviously maybe the prototype of that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, [SPEAKER_00]: big physical tons of juice with real swing and miss questions.

[SPEAKER_00]: The last few drafts, the national seem to have targeted a lot more contact oriented hitters who have less power, but if you look at every hitter on this top 10, Eli will at Seaver King, Luke Dickerson, Koy James, on how Feliz, no one in the top 10 of the system we even had projected future power at 50 or higher than 50, I should say.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's no power grade better than a 50 in this top 10, [SPEAKER_00]: After we get all of our top 10s, I'll be curious if there is another system where that is true, maybe it's just more common than I think, but that is what stands out to me about this system, just a lack of impact and granted all of these hitters are short stops.

[SPEAKER_00]: So if you're saying, okay, we're going to trade power for a lot about the middle premium position guys, you can really hit.

[SPEAKER_00]: might be fine, but you also want to see better results than what you've gotten so far from Sivir King, but you've gotten so far from Luke Dickerson, and we talked about Sivir King on a recent podcast.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm still excited about what he can be, but that's certainly stands out in this system.

[SPEAKER_01]: They have other guys who have power.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, Elijah Greens still has like, I mean, if not 70, 80, [SPEAKER_01]: raw power, Yohande Morales has huge raw power, like Ethan Petrie has power too, but on these, they can't hit or they'd have a huge swing and miss risk with these guys, so right.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think the [SPEAKER_01]: It was it was a tough year on the pitching side for the nationals, just because, like, yeah, E.E.I.

[SPEAKER_01]: will.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's as a top 100 guy.

[SPEAKER_01]: Clearly, Travis Sakura and Harlean Susanna could be top 100 guys.

[SPEAKER_01]: And if they were healthy, they probably would be.

[SPEAKER_01]: There would be.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yep.

[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, chat Travis Sakura 100% would be.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, we we saw, [SPEAKER_00]: I was really impressed with Travis Cora when he was healthy, but I mean, he was tracking like a top 50 sort of prospect and like a brush a lot of pitching prospects and baseball for me.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, the stuff looks great.

[SPEAKER_01]: Put it through just under 30 innings this year.

[SPEAKER_01]: Then he had Tommy John Surgery, so he's got a missed most of next season.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then how many innings is he really gonna throw in 2027, like probably not like a full season.

[SPEAKER_01]: worth of innings or a normal full seasons worth of innings and we'll see how the stuff and the command and everything looks once he comes back I think he's like a fringe top 100 guy now because of the combination of how good he was when he was healthy but also the injury adds a lot of [SPEAKER_01]: You know, he also had, you know, he had the lat surgery, but even before then, you know, he said we can use the L-Sprane earlier in the year, the control is really sketchy.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think there's just a very high probability of him being a reliever.

[SPEAKER_01]: Now, maybe he could be a great reliever and I don't want to rule out him being a starter entirely, but I just think it's much more likely he ends up [SPEAKER_01]: in a bullpen, and he could be a great, really, like he could end up being one of better closers in baseball.

[SPEAKER_01]: I've said before, maybe he ends up being Mason Miller, but that's to me is, if he does end up or leave her a perfect world scenario for him, although I don't know, maybe Mason Miller is gonna be a starter this year or so.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I think he does have a chance to be that high leverage, really impactful, reliever, the stuff is good, but to control the inability to stay healthy, consistently, really scares me with him, which is concerning for a guy we have ranked that high in the organization.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I mean, the volatility doesn't stop there.

[SPEAKER_00]: Alex Klemney has a lot of the same questions and concerns.

[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe less of the health questions compared to Susana and Sikora.

[SPEAKER_00]: He is healthy at this point, but even dating back to his high school days.

[SPEAKER_00]: He was a very erratic pitcher.

[SPEAKER_00]: He had a strong season between high AA this year, and 116.2 innings, but so 3.47 ERA struck out nearly 27% of batters.

[SPEAKER_00]: But he also walked nearly 15%.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's a big, long, levered kid who comes at you with a fastball that gets in the upper 90s from the left side.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's always shown a plus breaking ball.

[SPEAKER_00]: That looks like it's still there.

[SPEAKER_00]: But the usability of all these pitches are gonna be a lot less than you'd like to see.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think he's also more likely a reliever than a starter and when you can say it, maybe [SPEAKER_00]: you'll disagree and you'll be more bullish on Clemmy's chances is start moving forward.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I do feel like when two of your top four prospects are likely relievers that's not a situation you'd like to be in at this stage of a rebuild.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's a good arm to have in your organization.

[SPEAKER_01]: But see the number four prospect in a good farm system.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'd rather have him.

[SPEAKER_01]: either like back of a top 10 or just outside of a top 10, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: Because I think it's power of fastball left hand to picture.

[SPEAKER_01]: I thought the change up looked better this year, but it's any, you know, it's good extension too.

[SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot effort to the operation, the walkerate that you talked about is scary.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think that stems from delivery.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think that's going to [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, ultimately is this a starter or long term.

[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe I obviously keep them as a starter, keep developing in that way.

[SPEAKER_01]: But the effort that delivery, the control are going to be things he's going to have to iron out and prove.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, well let's throw some hope out there to the National's fans because I do think we need a circle and maybe we talk about the talent they added in 2025 draft.

[SPEAKER_00]: We've obviously talked about Eli Willets quite a bit already, but they did have a lot of money to spend.

[SPEAKER_00]: They acquired Eli Willets, Ethan Petrie, who you mentioned as well in the second round, but then they loaded [SPEAKER_00]: over slot high school players with Landon Harmon, a Gelsie May, two high school right hand of pictures who had some of the better, just pure velocity and arm talent in the class.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then Koy James, who I'd say in the fifth round at 2.5 million, like he is the sort of player.

[SPEAKER_00]: The Marlins were drafting and hoping to get from Carter Johnson, but with Koy James, I'm more bullish now on his hit tool than Carter won because like he hasn't had [SPEAKER_00]: the amount of time to show me that he's not the sort of hitter in the same way that Carter has, but also because like he just hit everywhere.

[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like his track record in this class was one of the best in terms of just performing with USA and travel ball and high school like he just always hits and know there are not a lot of secondary tools that can get you really excited, [SPEAKER_00]: has a chance to play in the infield somewhere.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think probably more likely fit for second base for me, but I think he's got a chance to be in a above average, maybe even a plus hitter because the hand-eye coordination is so good, swing is compact, he gets on the ball a lot.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm bullish on what he can be moving forward.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm also really excited about both Landon Harmon and Miguel Cme.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, Landon Harmon is kind of how you draw up projectable high school pitchers.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's a long, lean frame.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's got a lot of room to add weight.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's already been up to 98.

[SPEAKER_00]: And we talked about this with Thomas White, but I feel like Landon Harmon would be on a short list of players who generates velocity with ease and arm speed that's just kind of shocking.

[SPEAKER_00]: Every time I saw him pitch, it looked like he was playing catch and it's coming out 96.97, 98 miles per hour.

[SPEAKER_00]: Still, both Harman and C.

May, I think they're going to have a long ways to go.

[SPEAKER_00]: Consistency and sharpness of the second areas are something both these pitchers need to improve on and with C.

May, I think you're also looking at a right hand at pitcher who's got a fast ball that it's a fairly easy 70 grade projection.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, with C.

May, you're not projecting on anything.

[SPEAKER_00]: This guy is consistently in the upper 90s.

[SPEAKER_00]: But he touches a hundred.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's been up north of a hundred and.

[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, there are probably a few pictures that have held velocity to the degree that he showed at the NHSI last spring, but he was not only maintaining upper 90s velocity in his matchup against, um, corona.

[SPEAKER_00]: He was going from like 95, 96 and then in the 6th and 7th inning, he was like 97, 99.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like he saved some in the tank and was still holding upper 90s in a full 7th inning game for a high schooler.

[SPEAKER_00]: I was also more impressed with the secondaries than I expected to be for him on that day.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I think for both Harman and CMA, just like what is the quality of your control going to be?

[SPEAKER_00]: Are you going to add a secondary pitch that is also maybe a chance to be an out pitch?

[SPEAKER_00]: So I think there's a lot to like into Dream on in this 25 class of your national's fan.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's just probably going to take a while for a lot of these guys.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think that's fair, probably.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like he said, they got a lot of good players in the draft, but it's not a great sign of the guys were maybe the most excited about are the guys who just haven't had an opportunity to.

[SPEAKER_01]: like go out and play it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_00]: If you don't have any more on the nationals, we can circle back to the Phillies.

[SPEAKER_01]: Can I, can I, can I cut in here with a shirt, a tweet from Jeff Passen?

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, Lord.

[SPEAKER_01]: What is it?

[SPEAKER_01]: The Colorado Rockies are deep into conversations with Paul D.

Podesta to take over their baseball operations department, [SPEAKER_01]: Well, a deal is not final.

[SPEAKER_01]: It could be soon.

[SPEAKER_01]: The pedestal is currently chief strategy officer for the Cleveland Browns in a long time.

[SPEAKER_01]: Wow.

[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.

[SPEAKER_00]: And many ball comes to Colorado.

[SPEAKER_01]: That was, that was what they're doing.

[SPEAKER_01]: Kind of what I said at the top of the show, which is get somebody who outside the box, who was a front office executive, who's no longer working in baseball.

[SPEAKER_01]: That was not one of the names that I had in my mind, but that would, uh, about the a very, very interesting way is this.

[SPEAKER_00]: He, it is happening because Fowl's hair toy tweeted that he will become the head of baseball operations, according to multiple reports.

[SPEAKER_00]: So is it just rumored or is it done deal?

[SPEAKER_01]: Carlos, I'm talking to you on this podcast the whole time.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, clearly you've been reading Twitter.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I'll talk to you in this podcast, Ben.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I saw there was maybe in the know.

[SPEAKER_01]: I saw there was a message here, but no, I mean, Passen says the deal is not final, it could be soon.

[SPEAKER_01]: Obviously if Passen is tweeting it, there's a lot of smoke, and I'm sure it sounds like maybe soon to be a fire being lit.

[SPEAKER_00]: Wow.

[SPEAKER_00]: Crazy.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, to circle back to that one.

[SPEAKER_00]: Man, all right, okay, any final comments or any players you want to mention on [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, Philly's, you're up next unless you think the Braves are the third best system in the division here, Ben, which would strongly push back against.

[SPEAKER_01]: And the Philly's are, you know, their top five in that's the top five in that system is doing a lot of the heavy lifting for the value in that organization.

[SPEAKER_01]: And especially like in their top three, I think that's where most of it's concentrated.

[SPEAKER_01]: Right, after that, I don't know.

[SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot of question marks, but the guys at the top are pretty good.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think it's really one too for me.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, not sure how much...

[SPEAKER_00]: I got a big of a fan, you are just in Crawford.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think he's a good player, a good prospect, but I view a pretty significant tier break after 8 in Miller and Andrew Painter.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think those two are like definite no doubt.

[SPEAKER_00]: Top 100 guys who will be in a very prominent spot on the top 100 list and then Justin Crawford.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, do you view him as a top 100 player?

[SPEAKER_00]: I could see him being a kind of a polarizing type [SPEAKER_00]: Some people have on, some people maybe think that they just don't trust the ground ball rate and the shocking defense from him.

[SPEAKER_01]: So he is a top 100 guy for me, but I do think we'll have some disagreements right elsewhere.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm definitely worth 8 a miller though.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think we'll probably have a good amount of agreement.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'll be surprised.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, not everyone [SPEAKER_00]: He's a really impressive player and you'd kind of alluded to it earlier, but pal good his defenses as a short stop at this stage is kind of shocking if you think back to how he was viewed as a high school player, I mean he was playing third base.

[SPEAKER_00]: lot on the showcase circuit like I viewed him as like a definite third base moving forward.

[SPEAKER_00]: I remember being skeptical too when he was drafted as a short stop being skeptical when he was running out at short stop and then being like okay like even if you think he's going to play a third base in the future like getting reps as a short stop certainly can't hurt him like the footwork that's going to require is going to translate to the hot corner and nope.

[SPEAKER_00]: I was just wrong, he's, he has a short stop and a very good one at that, seen some of the plays that he can make there.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now, kind of transforms the profile because if you got a plus defender, a short stop who also has an above average hit power combination, that's not a, not a good prospect, that's a great prospect.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I'd never needed to be sold on the hit power with a Miller, but now that you layer in the new defensive reality for him, it's extremely exciting.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he went, he went bobbishet on his defense at short so it's guy who, you know, drop in the guy who's probably going to move from shortstop to second base full time shortly.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, but maybe a good, good comparison as an amateur.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think he said a good wrong shortstop, but he, yeah, I mean, he was a guy that, you know, you and I thought he was a third baseman, but, you know, potentially an above average defender at [SPEAKER_01]: people thought was going to be a short term coming out of high school.

[SPEAKER_01]: And he was, you know, he was hurt that spring for a big chunk of it.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I don't know how many times I believe.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I don't know how much he shouldn't fall into the back of the first round.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think he would.

[SPEAKER_00]: He was 27th overall.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think in that class, he was probably the best hitter after Walker Jenkins and Max Clark.

[SPEAKER_00]: Hit power.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think I always dropped that one.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like he had the best hit power combination in the class beyond those two, and maybe even take the power over Max Clark.

[SPEAKER_00]: So if he's not injured, I don't think the fillers get a chance at him, but I made Kudos to them for scooping them up when he got there.

[SPEAKER_01]: he's proven us and a lot of people wrong on the defensive side because we talked about it early early last year really when it was his first season in pro ball and it's like hey like you start to watch this if what it looks like yeah yeah like this guy looks like a shortstop and there is this $300 million player trade charter with the fillings have and shortstop [SPEAKER_01]: 2,084 or, you know, no, it's 2,033.

[SPEAKER_01]: So it does 8 in Miller end up playing shortstop for the fillies in the major leagues.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_01]: David and Browsky is still in charge.

[SPEAKER_01]: So who knows if he ends up getting traded, but 8 in Miller is a shortstop and he can play shortstop in the big leagues and trade Turner is going to be 33 years old next season.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't know that 8 in Miller is going to be ready to play.

[SPEAKER_01]: in the big leagues in 2026.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's only played eight games in AAA.

[SPEAKER_01]: But if it's 2027, Tray Turner is 34 years old.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, at some point, eight in Miller might push Turner off shortstop and just take that job for himself.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, absolutely.

[SPEAKER_01]: Offensively though, like I mean, that's where, yeah, I mean, it's not the loudest slash line that you would expect for a hitter [SPEAKER_01]: like eight in Miller, especially when he's playing in double A and in redding, but when you watch and play there's there's obviously a lot.

[SPEAKER_01]: like the bat speed has always stood out and still high in batsby easy.

[SPEAKER_01]: Easy plus if not 70.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he likes the velocities up to nearly 115 miles an hour this year.

[SPEAKER_00]: Very selective doesn't swing a ton, doesn't expand the zone of ton, makes a lot of contact.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think like I'd never had an issue with the mechanics of his swing, but he's also kind of cleaned up those and smoothed out the hand-hitch a little bit and still has that electric bat speed that you mentioned [SPEAKER_00]: No, if she's at all with any sort of like light Slash line, I think it's gonna hit for over the fence power.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's gonna get on base.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's gonna hit for doubles I mean, he's been a really good base runner as well.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's still 59 bags this year, which if you'd told me [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, if you did tell me that you're still in 59 bags as I schooler who's going to do that in the upper levels of the minors, maybe I would have asked you what position he was going to be playing because clearly just much better runner than I expected him to be moving forward.

[SPEAKER_00]: But we're talking about a guy who, I mean, maybe he doesn't have this sort of elite foot speed that's going to light up like a baseball sub on page, but outside of just the peer speed, I think he's got literally everything you can ask for.

[SPEAKER_00]: What's the question mark where they didn't Miller?

[SPEAKER_01]: I would say, yeah, I mean, I agree it's I think it can be a 25 plus home run guy.

[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe some 30 plus home or seasons in there draws a lot of logs.

[SPEAKER_01]: There's 82 walks this year.

[SPEAKER_01]: If I had a concern offensively, I would say it's how he handles secondary stuff because he can annihilate fastballs and he has good hand [SPEAKER_01]: But he's got that hanging leg kick, and you can see where his timing is off or he gets fooled by a slider away or a change up that he's swinging over the top of.

[SPEAKER_01]: So the swing and miss and the overall results against off speed stuff wasn't great.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I'd like to see him get a full year, maybe even a triple A next year, because if he comes up early next spring, [SPEAKER_01]: I think pictures are going to just attack him with, like, slider, slider, slider, change up lots of secondary stuff that I'm not sure he's ready for yet, but long-term, yeah, I mean.

[SPEAKER_01]: very optimistic then he's he's somebody's shorts down the future.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know what's encouraging about that even that question mark, which is real is like it seems like he was throwing a lot of breaking balls early in the season in the minors and did struggle but like him showing the ability to make an adjustment and to figure that out in season is encouraging for how he'll be able to handle that in the future and moving forward now obviously like makes like breaking balls [SPEAKER_00]: Then the break in both of you can see in the miners, but just the fat that he's shown in ability to already make that adjustment in some capacity in the miners is encouraging to me for for how he's going to be able to handle the moving forward.

[SPEAKER_01]: I saw some wait in the season where still looked a little shaky there for, you know, obviously I like quite a bit, but I'd like to see him get a lot more triple a time to.

[SPEAKER_01]: improve in that area, it might just take him getting up to the big ways to like, really, just see those pitches before he's able to make that adjustment fully.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, how about Andrew Painter number two on the list?

[SPEAKER_00]: I think the second player in the system who's a definite lock to be a top 100 player.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, at one point was in the conversation to be top pitching prospect in baseball.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think he's too too far off that at this stage, [SPEAKER_00]: a bit because of maybe a little bit of a mediocre year.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's dealt with some injuries.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's had a Tommy John in the past to kept him out.

[SPEAKER_00]: Still has an impressive fastball, sliders, sweeper combination.

[SPEAKER_00]: Really good control.

[SPEAKER_00]: Where are you out on Andrew Painter right now?

[SPEAKER_00]: Andrew Painter.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he is a good prospect and I agree with you that he is a top 100 prospect.

[SPEAKER_01]: prospects in our top 100 and and I've think I've said that we've just been too high on him ever since he had the Tommy John surgery obviously like before that he looked phenomenal.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I think I just tend to be harsh on prospects who have a major arm operation like TJ because it's not only increasing your durability risk and the risk that you're stuff and that your commands.

[SPEAKER_01]: Don't come back all the way, but it also just cost you development time that's crucial at a young age, but You know starting starting with a good like look a six foot seven right hand a picture don't a hundred miles an hour and sitting in the mid to upper 90s as a starting picture The fastball also doesn't really miss a lot of ass.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's a lot more hitable than you would expect given the velocity, but it is big time velocity for [SPEAKER_01]: a starting pitcher.

[SPEAKER_01]: I saw a solid slider that would flash above average, but I don't know that he's going to have a plus slider.

[SPEAKER_01]: His change up.

[SPEAKER_01]: I did like that pitch.

[SPEAKER_01]: That was his best swing and miss pitch this year.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think that gives him a strong pitch to use against [SPEAKER_01]: a 9% walk rate.

[SPEAKER_01]: Not bad, but also that's not what I would view in line was like in a elite front end starter who's one of like the elite, elite pitching prospects, like very best pitching prospects, baseball, which is the way that I think painer is.

[SPEAKER_00]: staying right now or yeah how the general conversation so you would not have him and you would not have him the same tier of a picture as a null McLean or as a Thomas White at this stage, you'd be behind that for you.

[SPEAKER_01]: No, I think there's a lot of, you know, he did throw 118 innings this year after missing, you know, all of 2023 essentially all of 2024 except for [SPEAKER_01]: they're like 15 innings in the folly, so showing that durability to come back is a good sign.

[SPEAKER_01]: And ideally, look being another year removed from TJ, his command gets sharper.

[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe his stuff gets a little bit crisper, but to me, Andrew Painter is a good prospect, but I, no, I would not have him as a top 50 prospect in baseball right now.

[SPEAKER_00]: Mm.

[SPEAKER_00]: I still feel like Andrew Painters, I feel like...

[SPEAKER_00]: His track record of throwing strikes at a high level, the fact that he's throwing the fastballs, hard as he's throwing that pitch.

[SPEAKER_00]: The fact that he's shown an ability to make some pitch designed tweaks and still show quality secondaries, makes me a little bit more bullish that I see gets further away from that injury.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's going to start to rediscover some of the performance that he had in the past, as we didn't see this year.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I think I would still have him in the top 50.

[SPEAKER_00]: I certainly wouldn't have him in the same tier of prospect of white and McLean right now.

[SPEAKER_00]: He wouldn't be a top.

[SPEAKER_00]: 20 prospect for me, but I think in those next 30 spots, it'd be hard for me to not find a place for him and maybe this will sound crazy to you.

[SPEAKER_00]: Based on what we've talked about previous pictures, but I would certainly have him in the mix of like a robby snelling or a Jonah Tong.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I might prefer him to want to both of those pictures.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm higher on him than you though I am lower on him than.

[SPEAKER_00]: where he might be, where's he currently ranked on our 100 or last in season very, very high.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's high enough that Ben doesn't want to say where it is.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, so I think I'm the middle ground between where that ranking might indicate and where you are personally.

[SPEAKER_00]: Classic fence sitting position here by me.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think I mean, Tom, Tom, Mrs.

Way more bats.

[SPEAKER_00]: And he misses way more strike zones as well.

[SPEAKER_01]: Not even way though.

[SPEAKER_01]: Um, yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's fair.

[SPEAKER_00]: Um, I would say historically, though, like, you are right to really bang these injured pictures.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so like, they're, they're, there, there's some sort of penalty that you have to give and like the performance is not great.

[SPEAKER_00]: I just feel like all the stuff still sounds more exciting to me than the numbers indicate and maybe that's just like, [SPEAKER_00]: me being too foolish and like thinking back to when he was great, but I feel like there's still a really good number three pitcher in here.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, again, he's a good prospect.

[SPEAKER_01]: I just don't.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's like viewed in this elite category of which I before the injury, I totally agree with.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't don't remember exactly, but I'm pretty sure.

[SPEAKER_01]: If I didn't think he was the number one pitching prospect in baseball, I want [SPEAKER_01]: right in that conversation, whereas now, and after the year he had, which is not a great year overall, like ERA over five, which ERA is not everything, and it's his first year back from TJ, so he's good.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, overall it was a 5.26 here, a 4.81.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's just maybe more in that 51, 200, right for me.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, um, probably had to pick up the tempo here a little bit as we get towards the end.

[SPEAKER_00]: Any other players that you want to highlight here for the fillets because I think we both mentioned very top heavy.

[SPEAKER_00]: I also think just in general, like once you get into the 15 plus range of farm systems in baseball, like all of these systems or top heavy that's why they're [SPEAKER_00]: in the back half of our farm system ratings.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's very hard to have a really deep system that you also think is not good.

[SPEAKER_00]: But who are some other players who are of interest to you or that you like in this group?

[SPEAKER_00]: I got one at the back that I'm mostly just fascinated by.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I guess I can just jump straight to him as maybe you think through the guys you wanna talk through, but K to Obermiller.

[SPEAKER_00]: Left in a picture drafted out of Iowa and the second round he was drafted way higher than I expected him to go.

[SPEAKER_00]: on our board, the Phillies clearly like him quite a bit.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think he's going to be an impactful pitcher.

[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe they're going to prove me wrong in the same way that they proved me wrong with a Miller's defense.

[SPEAKER_00]: He does have this really low slot, attacks, attacks hitters from a low release point, great extension on this low 90s sinker that's Touch 96.97, he gets a lot of movement on a sweeping braking ball that has a ton of bite.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I was always a little bit more like the reason there's a gap between where he was drafted and where he was at on our board is because he's so small.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's listed at six feet, 170 pounds, and he also hasn't shown much of a third pitch.

[SPEAKER_00]: I just really question like, what is this sort of upside here with him?

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I think you could say, [SPEAKER_00]: The slider is maybe a plus pitch, but outside of that, I'm not sure what you're really banking on.

[SPEAKER_00]: Again, I'm getting a little nitpicky, it's the number 10 prospect, but I'm most fascinated by it's just like the disconnect between where we had him ranked in a value of a pre-draft versus where the Philly's signed him and paid him, because it wasn't some like big under slot deal here either.

[SPEAKER_00]: He signed for 1.2 million in the second round, so I'm really fascinated to see what he looks like next year in his first full-processing.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think the most fascinating guy is just in Crawford, you know, I mean, Dad is Carl Crawford electric athlete, great MLB career.

[SPEAKER_01]: Justin is an elite athlete to I mean six to lean strong like elite runner 46 stolen bases this year.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I guess he's not 8 in Miller.

[SPEAKER_00]: But you know, pretty Justin Crawford is not 8 in Miller runner.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but you know, like 20 that exist.

[SPEAKER_01]: 21 years old.

[SPEAKER_01]: I had 334, 411, 452 and triple A over a full season.

[SPEAKER_01]: So.

[SPEAKER_01]: it's great hand eye coordination, great ability to manipulate the barrel, put the ball and play the swing strike rate is excellent.

[SPEAKER_01]: So he doesn't punch out much.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's not a big power threat.

[SPEAKER_01]: He does hit the ball pretty hard.

[SPEAKER_00]: I have to hit the ball in the air to be a power threat.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's well, that's part of the, but you know, EVs up to 111 average 90 miles an hour, [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, two things, hold them back at the plate.

[SPEAKER_01]: I actually like the major one, more so even than the ground balls is the chase.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the swing decisions.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, he's not a total free swinger, but he's definitely not selective.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, he just expands the strike zone too often and for a guy who is not gonna be a huge power guy getting on base has to be a big part of his game.

[SPEAKER_01]: And he has the context skills, speed is going to help him in that, but he doesn't walk much, which is going to eat away at his OBP because I don't think he's going to be, it could be wrong.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think he's going to be a 320 hitter in the big leagues, the way he's been throughout his minor league career.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then, yeah, you're right, like it's an older school approach, probably because he is so fast and just the type of player that his dad was.

[SPEAKER_01]: just to hit the ball on the ground and use his legs and I'd like to see him get more loft in his swing because there is, I think there's definitely untapped power potential in there and I think it will just help his ability just to get on base too if he's not hitting so many ground balls because the ground ball rate is very, very high.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it feels like we've been saying the same thing about Justin Crawford for like three years at this point.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, he's, he's had this sort of questions about how, how much can he hit the ball in the ground and how, like, what is the extreme degree of that better ball profile and does that play in the majors?

[SPEAKER_00]: And maybe he's just one of these outlier types who does, who's going to come up in the majors and [SPEAKER_00]: He's going to be the exact opposite of the launch angle, profile of hitters going to hit for a high average.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's not going to really matter that he's not getting the ball in the air because if he puts the ball low on a line or on the ground in the gaps, like he's got the speed turn some singles into doubles and that could play really well.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just skeptical of the profile, the combination of not being able to elevate and also the swing decisions that you mentioned.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's worth noting that like he's been one of the better minor league hitters in baseball and recent years just purely going on on batting average, like how many players who have hit as well as he's hit and the miners have just not had.

[SPEAKER_00]: any sort of major league impact your career and he does have some real tools.

[SPEAKER_00]: Kind of still surprising that he doesn't get better defensive reviews than he had gotten.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's the most I don't really get like he's a double plus runner, but.

[SPEAKER_00]: like we've never heard anything to indicate that he's going to be an actual above average defender, let alone like the plus sort of defender you thought he could develop into as a high school player, like I guess there's some like positional things that they're doing with Crawford that some people say, oh, this is why like he doesn't great up better like on the analytics, but it's it's odd to hear the feedback that we've consistently kind of got on his defense.

[SPEAKER_00]: If he's not a senior fielder, then the power questions become significantly more amplified.

[SPEAKER_00]: So [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the defensive metrics are poor in center fields.

[SPEAKER_01]: Josh talks in his report about how a lot of that could be because of just how the fillies are positioning him so shallow and that has an impact on how his defensive metrics look.

[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, there's definitely a disconnect between the raw speed and how he's able to translate that into outs in center field.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, that said, I like him.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like I think, I like to make the Colorado Rockies trade for him because then I think like the value he could have as a speedster even in a corner and with all that experience playing shallow my really being asset at that park and I also think like his bad at ball profile would be less of an issue for me if he's sitting balls in the gaps there.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think it's it's a really unusual profile, I think it, I think it might work and when it's worked all the way through triple A.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like it's, it's one thing.

[SPEAKER_01]: All right, in a low way.

[SPEAKER_01]: All right, is this going to work higher up?

[SPEAKER_01]: I understand the skepticism.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I still understand it now, obviously, when it keeps working through trip away, like it's only one more level you have to hit.

[SPEAKER_01]: It is a big jump between AAA and Major League pitching.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: But there's a lot of things he does really, really well.

[SPEAKER_01]: And there are some things that I think [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, maybe it's not an easy adjustment to make.

[SPEAKER_01]: But you don't have to make this wholesale radical change necessarily, just get a little bit more loft.

[SPEAKER_01]: The chase is going to be tough, but if he can put the back to the ball the way he can, which is what I always like to all about him in high school, and he's maintained that right now, like, [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, put me in the optimistic camp on Justin Crawford.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, on 223, 132, WRC Plus, 225, 133, WRC Plus.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's not just like purely batting average, like some of the other advanced offensive numbers, like him quite a bit.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's definitely going to be a headscratcher for me.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think like where I place him might depend on how much I like some of the guys in the 70 to like 120 range.

[SPEAKER_00]: When we get to that stage, but I'm sure he's going to lead to a lot of, [SPEAKER_00]: fund debates when it comes to discussing placement in the prospect team.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_00]: Anything else on Philly's or should we jump into the Atlanta Braves?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I know Braves fans Carlos are disappointed and depressed over what happens in the major league team in 2025, but give Braves fans a good news about what's coming in the Braves farm system and some of the [SPEAKER_01]: make an impact in Atlanta next year.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well, if you're looking for hitters to impact, you've got basically no options for 2026.

[SPEAKER_00]: At least early in 2026.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I think it is notable that for the first time in years, the Braves attacked offensive players at the top of the draft.

[SPEAKER_00]: They've been one of the most [SPEAKER_00]: uh...

since that draft and it took line of ladies and gentlemen she make a thing it was basically straight pictures until this year they took three straight short stops to top their draft board um...

but is still is just a very picture heavy system i mean we've got all five of their top uh...

the first five prospects in the system are pictures uh...

i think there are some good pictures here i think there are [SPEAKER_00]: Definitely two players that have a chance to be top 100 prospects.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think you can make a case for a third if you really wanted to, but also like I could see depending on how people view Jair, Rich use number two on this list.

[SPEAKER_00]: I could see some people on our staff only having camp, camp, and nitty, the left-handed pitchers who's leading the system as a top 100 player.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think the braves for a few years now have been [SPEAKER_00]: picking at the back of the draft.

[SPEAKER_00]: They made some trades that have shalled out the system.

[SPEAKER_00]: They've not seen many returns from the international market, even after they were out of the market just because of penalties for a few years.

[SPEAKER_00]: But they've had multiple years now where had they hit on some players.

[SPEAKER_00]: They got in their first few classes back.

[SPEAKER_00]: You would start to see the results of that in the farm system Diego Tornez does sneak into the back 10 here as a recent international signing from them.

[SPEAKER_00]: going to be 17 years old next year as one DSL season under his belt.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah, if you're looking for offensive reinforcements, you're really not going to find them here unless you're just super, super bullish on Alex Ladeez who is probably the most progressed offensive player in this top 10 who had obviously had a great year in college last year, but yeah, we're where should we go for this system.

[SPEAKER_00]: Ben, I think it's probably still a bottom 10 system pretty safely.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, he's a really good pitcher.

[SPEAKER_00]: I've been impressed with the strike throwing that he has shown actually, like his ability to land the fastball in his own for strikes has been encouraging.

[SPEAKER_00]: It sounds like he has made some strides improving his breaking ball, which is good to hear because he was a fastball, change up oriented pitcher coming out of the draft.

[SPEAKER_00]: There were questions about, okay, like, is he gonna get to a consistent breaking ball?

[SPEAKER_00]: A lot of teams were skeptical of that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Or excuse me, throwing like this low 80s sweeping slider, I think they experimented with adding a harder breaking ball for him, like sort of a gyroslider in the future.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's a great season, I mean, he dealt with some, but there's 4 and 10 and I just early in the year and then when he recovered from that and got back on the mound.

[SPEAKER_00]: It was really impressive, strikeout rate, walk rate, 2.0 ERA, 32% strikeout rate, he's still far away.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, he's still young, he still hasn't really pitched above the low A level, so he's still have to project a decent amount with him, and I think the secondary is you want to see some more just consistency in terms of like where he's locating those pitches moving forward, but I think you could look at him and see a plus fastball easily, maybe [SPEAKER_00]: two secondaries that I have confidence in and good strike.

[SPEAKER_00]: So there's a lot to like.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's just he's not a guy who's really knocking on the door right now and needs to still show he can miss bats and throw it over the plate at higher levels.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, what did, obviously, the fastball and the athleticism on the left side has stood out for a long time with him.

[SPEAKER_01]: What do you have about the second areas?

[SPEAKER_01]: It seemed like the change up is to get him out of bats this year.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so he started throwing a kick change up this year, 85, 88 miles per hour.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like I heard that when he's really hitting on that pitch it has splitter-esque movement, which is impressive.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's funny, like the, it sounds like pitch, [SPEAKER_00]: grip tweaks have been a thing with community like kind of he came into the system throwing a two seam grip and very quickly the bridge like no no no you're you're going to throw a forcing grip because we think that pitch for you is just going to dominate and so far it's been really good and again like I don't know what his specific grip was prior to the kick change I think he was probably throwing like more of a circle change grip again like I really like just change up before [SPEAKER_00]: This new grip came into place, but it sounds like regardless of what he's throwing the change up has been good.

[SPEAKER_00]: Really, I think the breaking ball development is what's most encouraging with him.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what we had it created.

[SPEAKER_00]: Pre-draft, but the fact that there's a question now we're talking about it being a potential above average pitch, I think is really encouraging.

[SPEAKER_00]: He has the best upside of any picture in this system in my mind.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's a lefty with a huge arm [SPEAKER_01]: How does he compare to Robby Snelly, who, I don't know why he is, being like the barometer for everybody in this conversation.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's trying not to be a good barometer, yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Where does he stack on that scale?

[SPEAKER_00]: I think if you like upside, you're going to take caminity, and if you like proximity and safety, you're probably going to take Snelly.

[SPEAKER_00]: I would imagine I'll have to pull up what our actual grades are on these two.

[SPEAKER_00]: They'll be in a similar sort of tier, and maybe get to it.

[SPEAKER_00]: on robby, snelling, adjusted grade of 45 on caminity.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think they probably could be closer than maybe those grades indicate.

[SPEAKER_00]: I could see them being in the same tier.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think there's just a little bit more giddy up on the fastball with caminity as maybe the biggest separator.

[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe the fact that there's like two secondarys I'm so quite excited about.

[SPEAKER_00]: Actually, I don't know which of those I would take now because I didn't mind like snelling was just ahead of him on the board.

[SPEAKER_00]: Probably would still maybe lean snowing, but I'm tempted to just take the upside to Kim Nitty.

[SPEAKER_00]: How about you?

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, uh, I think I need to think it more over the soft season for the finalized our top 100.

[SPEAKER_00]: Thankfully, we've got a little bit more time to really hash it out and iron it out.

[SPEAKER_00]: What about J.R.

Richie though?

[SPEAKER_00]: What did you see this year coming back from TJ?

[SPEAKER_00]: Both J.R.

Richie and Owen Murphy, their ability to get past their surgeries and get on to the mound both quicker.

[SPEAKER_00]: Then I expected them to come back from injuries, especially Murphy, but also like, [SPEAKER_00]: kind of pick up exactly where they left off has been really impressive and Jared Richie has also become this sort of or maybe he always was, but his ability to add different pitch shapes to his mix is exceptional.

[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe not surprising, given how Scouts talked about him, just in terms of like the pitchability he had, his baseball IQ on the mound, just like how he talks about the game, death letticism he has.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like it really feels like the Braves can introduce a different pitch grip or a different pitch shape or ask him to get a little bit more horizontal movement on a breaking ball and boom, he's unlocked a new pitch.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's now throwing seven different pitch shapes and he throws them all in and around the zone.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think for Jared Richie, it's kind of the opposite with Camini.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like it's a very safe, high floor sort of pitcher who is close to the major league level.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's now performed in the upper levels.

[SPEAKER_00]: It was a 2.6 for ERA and a 25% strikeout rate.

[SPEAKER_00]: across three different levels this year in 140 innings.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's just one of these kitchen sink pitchers now who's going to be able to mix match, keep hitters off balance.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if he's going to be quite as good as Spencer Schwellenbach, but that's the sort of...

[SPEAKER_00]: kind of huge arsenal and good control that he can potentially have.

[SPEAKER_00]: For Richie, I think if you can get a little bit more fastball velocity or if his slider like a year ago, pre-injury, JR Richie was throwing a slider that a lot of people were saying was the best slider in this system.

[SPEAKER_00]: If he can get back to pitch that has a little bit more bite again, maybe it's more of like a little bit more strikeout upside for him.

[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_01]: How about, I mean, Didier Fuentes is next starter reliever, which, which way do you think that one ultimately ends up going?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's a bit off.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I think he has the control to start.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think people need to get to Ben Attershape over his major league performance.

[SPEAKER_00]: It really feels like it sounds like he was rushed to the majors.

[SPEAKER_00]: He was only 20 years old when he was making a few starts at the major league level where he really got hammered with the fastball.

[SPEAKER_00]: But what did become clear in those major league outings is...

[SPEAKER_00]: Unless he is going to develop better secondary than he's shown so far, his fastball command is going to have to be better.

[SPEAKER_00]: The pitch has really appealing traits.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's one of the flatest fastballs in the game.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's a hard pitch.

[SPEAKER_00]: He sits around 95 miles per hour.

[SPEAKER_00]: He gets up to 99.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's been a pitch that he gets a lot of misses at the top of the zone.

[SPEAKER_00]: He needs to have that pitch land at the top of the zone or be above the zone to sneak over barrels to be effective against Major League hitters who are or were sitting on that pitch because he just didn't have a lot else to challenge them with.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's thrown a sweeper, he's mixed with a gyroslider, he's thrown a curve ball, he's thrown an upper 80s splitter.

[SPEAKER_00]: I've heard that like for some people, this splitter is kind of an exciting pitch that hopefully will take some steps forward, but he needs something other than the fastball to kind of keep hitters off balance.

[SPEAKER_00]: But he's, again, still very young, his strike throwing track record is strong, so I'm still excited about what he can be, but those are kind of the areas and you seem to improve and still.

[SPEAKER_01]: on the position player side.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you mentioned Diego Torniz.

[SPEAKER_01]: They're, you know, the guy they signed that a Cuba this year for $2.5 million, obviously they're top international signing this year.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I think he has a chance to be their best, certainly on the position player side, best signing out a lot in America in a while.

[SPEAKER_01]: Is he, like if you're a Braise fan and you're looking for a hitter to be excited about, is he the guy or is there somebody else here?

[SPEAKER_00]: I think he's the guy.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, he's the second ranked hitter.

[SPEAKER_00]: We have we do have Alex little Dees ranked a little bit ahead of them a large part of that is because he's he's he's more advanced in his game.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's older [SPEAKER_00]: There's a chance that you can make an impact on the big league team sooner.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like Diego Tornaz is unproven as a hitter in a way that Alex Lodis is not.

[SPEAKER_00]: Even though I think that Diego Tornaz has the highest upside of any hitter in this system.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like we do best tools and because of some of the questions, just in terms of approach with some of these other brave hitters.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think Diego Tornaz does have a case as the best pure hitter in the system as well.

[SPEAKER_00]: Again, like, [SPEAKER_00]: what you have to balance that with is like we know guys like Alex Lodis and Tate South is seen have just really aggressive approaches that they showed in their pro debut and with Lodis this is something that he's kind of always been in college but with Torniz he showed a pretty good mix of just contact skills the ability to get to the ball in different areas of the zone.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I'm not reading too much into walk rates in the DSL, but like the fact that he was walking is is good.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I think he just needs to get stateside and improve it and show it against a little bit better pitching before we can fully get on board.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like it, it may be of his batteball skills were a little bit crisper in the DSL.

[SPEAKER_00]: You could have been more aggressive on [SPEAKER_00]: on the pure hit with him.

[SPEAKER_00]: But all of the secondary tools seem really exciting.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's physical, he has bat speed, he's got good power potential, he's running better and defending better.

[SPEAKER_00]: Then I think he was maybe expected to run and defend before signing, like the reviews on his defense are great at times, he's got a big arm.

[SPEAKER_00]: So this is kind of one of those classic, [SPEAKER_00]: Like, yeah, he's really exciting, and yeah, he has a lot of tools, but it's just so far away, and I think Braise fans have probably been burned on enough of these guys in recent years that they're probably going to hesitate before getting fully on board, which makes sense.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's going to be in his age 17 season next year after all, so there's still plenty of time for him to develop and plenty for him to prove, but it's an exciting tool to say.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he'd be a 2027 high school player [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, if you're a brace fan and you're looking for somebody in the lower levels who could be a breakout player take a jump forward in 2026, I think Diego tornaz is that guy because if you're looking yeah if you're looking at the slash line 279 395 402 and with zero home runs and you're like that's okay, but right like what makes this guy someone you're so excited about I mean, you know, he's one of the younger players in the league just turned 17 in the middle of the season.

[SPEAKER_01]: six to a lot of physical upside left to add weight grow into bigger power and the the raw power is already in there because I know it doesn't show up in the ISO or obviously in the home runs but his 90th percentile exit velocity was just over 105 and if you look at [SPEAKER_01]: So when he's getting off his best swing and his loudest blasts, he is hammering the baseball.

[SPEAKER_01]: You'll get the youth, the body, like the bat speed.

[SPEAKER_01]: He could end up having 70 raw power.

[SPEAKER_01]: And he's a switch at her.

[SPEAKER_01]: There's some swing and miss in there.

[SPEAKER_01]: They were talking about.

[SPEAKER_01]: I want to see how that looks when he's facing better pitching competitive.

[SPEAKER_01]: What he's seen in the DSL.

[SPEAKER_01]: but there, yeah, there's a lot to like there.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then on the defensive side too, yeah, I mean, when teams were actively scouting him when he was younger, which was like 13, 14 because obviously the players commit super early down there.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like there was a pretty strong belief that he was gonna be left field, maybe ends up at first base.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then as January 15th got closer, it was more like, hey, this guy's getting faster, better defensively, he might be a legitimate center [SPEAKER_01]: It's always like, that's really hard to say, especially now.

[SPEAKER_01]: But it sounds like you heard a lot of good things about his defenses here too.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, heard overwhelmingly good things about him from just offensive perspective, defensive perspective.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like you mentioned, the bad of all that is much, much better than maybe the surface level numbers will indicate.

[SPEAKER_00]: So if you're really a brace fan and you're dying for some hitters in the draft, [SPEAKER_00]: three straight short soaps was enough for you.

[SPEAKER_00]: Look at Diego tornaz look out for him.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I was tempted to rank him 11th because we do have a bunch of breakout players.

[SPEAKER_00]: We can pick in the 11 plus range and with Diego tornaz being 10th, I technically can't pick him as a breakout, but I think in terms of actual players that you think can take a huge step forward tornaz would be definitely one of my one of my picks, but unless you got more on the braves, Ben, I think we can wrap it there [SPEAKER_00]: close at the podcast and point everyone to all the top 10s on the site.

[SPEAKER_00]: This combo is kind of just a taste of what you guys can get access to.

[SPEAKER_00]: If you're a subscriber to baseball America, I'd want to read through all the reports that everyone has spent a lot of time talking with experts around the league, bearing down on video, trying to line them up and present them as best we can for you.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah, really just appreciate you guys supporting baseball America, listening to the show.

[SPEAKER_00]: Send it around to a friend to a baseball friend if you guys know people who would like to show or like baseball America We really appreciate it then.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'll give you the final word before we get out of here No, and else central next week.

[SPEAKER_00]: See you there.

[SPEAKER_00]: See you then.

[SPEAKER_00]: All right for Ben.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm Carlos.

[SPEAKER_00]: So long everybody ticker