[SPEAKER_01]: Really, really gay podcast that we called that's a gay podcast.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's a gay, a name for a gay podcast.

[SPEAKER_00]: Colin Braun is on that's a gay podcast.

[SPEAKER_00]: Colin, you're a hot, hairy comedian.

[SPEAKER_00]: You are the exact person I love to talk to.

[SPEAKER_00]: How does it feel to be called hairy at minute one of this interview?

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's pretty much expected.

[SPEAKER_01]: I've spent the last week and a half listening to episodes of this podcast.

[SPEAKER_01]: do have only been called Harry this far in just means it's pretty tame so far.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that is correct because we are going to have some questions that do go below the Harry belt.

[SPEAKER_00]: However before we get into that I would like to know about this move that you have made to Dublin.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now you have actually posted in a lot of your social media about this move that you told many people that if Trump was elected you would leave the country which was a half [SPEAKER_00]: and then it did.

[SPEAKER_00]: But you'll also posted, was I using escapism to cope with a hot guy dumping me?

[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe.

[SPEAKER_00]: Is that true?

[SPEAKER_00]: Were you dumped by a hot guy?

[SPEAKER_01]: A bit.

[SPEAKER_01]: There was some hot guy that I hooked up with a few times.

[SPEAKER_01]: I thought it was going to become something.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then it didn't.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I have ADHD people with ADHD.

[SPEAKER_01]: We do not handle rejection well.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I've gotten divorced.

[SPEAKER_01]: three years ago and so this was like I was trying to get back into these four days of dating and um it just for some reason it just threw me for a complete loop on my mental health progress just went right down um that'll happen then that'll happen yeah and it was like in October while the election is weeks away and so I'm just I'm just in this kind of bad headspace um [SPEAKER_01]: Meanwhile, there's all this talk of dictator on day one and big crowds of people with signs saying, mass deportations now.

[SPEAKER_01]: One of my ADHD hyper focused is it throughout my life has been World War II and Chinese communism.

[SPEAKER_01]: So like, I just like, I kind of this really weird feeling.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I'm just going to leave Matt, like, if this happens, if they come back, I'm just going to leave [SPEAKER_01]: Dashing to the airport at the last minute with millions of other people.

[SPEAKER_00]: No, I get that.

[SPEAKER_00]: I do.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm hearing a lot of sure ADHD in the World War II fixations, but how do you feel about trains?

[SPEAKER_00]: Because I'm hearing autism, not that I'm a doctor or have any ability to diagnose a single thing, but do you identify with the A word at all?

[SPEAKER_01]: So one doctor said I might have autism, and then one doctor said I might not have autism, but you know, is that I've been in Europe for eight months, and I can tell you the trains are really one of the most exciting things about it, especially in Switzerland, and the high speed trains in Spain.

[SPEAKER_01]: The train in Spain goes faster than a plane.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, he really is gay.

[SPEAKER_00]: All he's giving us already a gorgeous illusion to the great form of musical theater.

[SPEAKER_00]: Um, I have to let you know that I, it really am a fan of your comedy, a fan of your, I just love how open you are, especially I do want to talk a bit about the gay divorce of it all about your experience in Europe of it all.

[SPEAKER_00]: I first saw you on the podcast some of this is bad.

[SPEAKER_00]: I love those.

[SPEAKER_00]: Queens and they do such a great job and your interview was just yeah the pit perfect balance of you're this like nerdy intellectual that's also super hot but also is down to talk about therapy and clearly trains but since you are such an open king I do want to get into some of your gay ass herstery in fact you hail from the country of Boston [SPEAKER_00]: What was it like being a gay kid there and follow-up was your first boy boy kiss with a fellow Bostonian or did you wait to escape?

[SPEAKER_01]: Growing up gay there wasn't great in the more industrial parts of the northeast there's this weird masculinity kind of thing going on.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's very dip that's it's different from the sort of all American lowest common denominator like Midwest [SPEAKER_01]: Boston Irish blue collar, what are you doing?

[SPEAKER_01]: And it's not, it's not necessarily hateful.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's just that it's such a weird structure to be in.

[SPEAKER_01]: And too, I think it's just because honestly, it's a lot of Irish and Italian Catholics that came over with nothing and they all had to kind of all do the same thing and work together to move forward.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so the kind of openness that you get out of like a northern California culture, you just don't really get there.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so, [SPEAKER_01]: I wouldn't say it was the easiest, but politically, it's a super progressive place.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, people might call you a faggot, but like they would say, of course you should be able to get married.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right, you get, go get married, faggot.

[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's sort of a white knuckling masculinity.

[SPEAKER_00]: It feels like.

[SPEAKER_00]: I do though I want to touch it on your Boston accent was impeccable.

[SPEAKER_00]: Would you say something horny and gay in that accent for me?

[SPEAKER_01]: Take your fucking shirt off.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it works.

[SPEAKER_00]: It works, Colin.

[SPEAKER_00]: No, I can only imagine that growing up gained Boston.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's a very specific type of genus they call when it comes to like, you got to be a man.

[SPEAKER_00]: Would you say that?

[SPEAKER_00]: Because you do sort of present like, that straight daddy, even though I know you love Dick, but do you think that like that masculine, like sort of gave you this ability to be sort of a dude?

[SPEAKER_01]: I would stay still.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Um, so my parents split up when I was eight and then my dad was out of a fixture for a while.

[SPEAKER_01]: Um, and my brothers were the kind of people who had friends and did sports.

[SPEAKER_01]: So they were out of the house.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so I would be in the house doing things like, you know, going behind the TV with the cables, just like those things that kids do that they can do to help around the house and like splitting wood and then like getting jobs and working and then [SPEAKER_01]: I've just kind of always gravitated to these kinds of things.

[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe for ADHD, autism reasons.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I don't like the whole, when I was younger, it was probably like one of those guys that was more like messed for mass kind of problematicy about it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Now I just don't give it shit.

[SPEAKER_01]: I do what I want.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like yeah, okay.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think a lot of us did that sort of we were told that being a guy, it was really embarrassing to have any ifeminate qualities.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: was the whole thing like you're so gay is basically you're just not acting super macho so no it's really I mean when people talk about like the fact sent of it all when people talk about like someone being super queeny like now it's to me it's like a great it's a badge of honor it's something to celebrate but I do think like a lot of gay people have to [SPEAKER_00]: Get past the idea that hooking up or dating somebody with any sort of a feminine qualities is bad And that's very frank was um, we will get into like your current sort of horny tails and European Slattery because that is my job as a gay journalist, but Where what was your first sort of gay ass hook up boy boy kiss?

[SPEAKER_00]: What was that like?

[SPEAKER_01]: I, when I was 17, I, or maybe I was 16, I met up with a guy on, I think, okay, cute, we went and saw the film, the King's speech, Call of Furth, shout out, which is a great movie and it really ties in with my love of public speaking and world work to history.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then we got pizza and then we went to his house and then we did gay stuff.

[SPEAKER_01]: And what's funny is I, like, I have such a positive connection with that film, [SPEAKER_01]: the king's feet, oh, I'll rewatch it.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, it's like, time fell.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'll rewatch it whenever just as one of my comfort media.

[SPEAKER_01]: But on the flip side, that guy, we got pizza.

[SPEAKER_01]: He got a mushroom pizza with truffle oil on it.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I still to this day hate truffle oil, just because when he was kissing me like that.

[SPEAKER_01]: First guy that ever kissed me had really low quality truffle oil on his breath.

[SPEAKER_01]: So funny, because I'll go to a fancy restaurant.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, we do [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, gross.

[SPEAKER_01]: No, just just the potatoes in the salt.

[SPEAKER_00]: At least so why is it that why is it that the king speech then you have a positive correlation to that, but then the actual smell of truffle that was on his breath.

[SPEAKER_00]: Was it a bad kiss?

[SPEAKER_00]: Was it a bad beach?

[SPEAKER_00]: Why was the truffle bad?

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, or just it just tasted or smelled bad, maybe you just didn't like the aroma.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's such a specific concentrated flavor and it was just a lot of [SPEAKER_01]: It was a sensory overload maybe.

[SPEAKER_00]: I can't get that.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it really is what a cousin to garlic and we can honestly don't like to kiss people with garlic on their breath.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, but like you're right now drinking a what Guinness beer, which is so, so Irish of you.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, I mean, it is, and it's kind of fucking hot if I'm being honest.

[SPEAKER_01]: It is so good.

[SPEAKER_01]: Keep like it.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's over the summer.

[SPEAKER_01]: I was working for this farmer on his farm.

[SPEAKER_01]: I wasn't working for him.

[SPEAKER_01]: I was just living at his farm and doing work there.

[SPEAKER_01]: I was not employed, because that would be illegal.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I helped him out with this barley harvest.

[SPEAKER_01]: And he told me that some of the barley that he harvested ends up in Guinness.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm pretty sure he was just lying.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like just telling tall tales.

[SPEAKER_01]: But maybe he wasn't.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I can tell you, it tastes so good in this country.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it tastes so bad in the United States.

[SPEAKER_01]: Because I've had involved.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's so sad.

[SPEAKER_00]: Because they're really, there are many parts of the European experience that are, in fact, better than us.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, like, listen, we have many great things in America.

[SPEAKER_00]: Obviously right now it's a nightmare, but like, but you know, the, whether it's the beer, whether it's the bread, whether it's, I mean, even just the dick, the dick of Europe is really stunning.

[SPEAKER_00]: I do, the paywall does go up in a few minutes, so I always, I always love to tease when that's about to happen, [SPEAKER_00]: Before we go into the paywall, I do want to ask also the famous gay ass podcast question, which is Colin, who's fault is it that you're gay?

[SPEAKER_01]: Who do we blame, babe?

[SPEAKER_01]: With the caveat that I want to give an answer that a lot of people have also already given on this podcast, which is Batman forever.

[SPEAKER_00]: True.

[SPEAKER_01]: But like, I'm not into Robin from Batman forever anymore.

[SPEAKER_01]: media character who's still and for my entire life is exactly the vibe of died that I want.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that is Larry the lobster from SpongeBob's workout.

[SPEAKER_00]: Is it his proportions?

[SPEAKER_00]: Is it the gravelly voice?

[SPEAKER_00]: No, what is his voice?

[SPEAKER_01]: SpongeBob that was so righteous.

[SPEAKER_01]: Would you [SPEAKER_01]: He can really, you know, and he's always lifting weights at the beach, and he's Oh, you can't take, you can't take the toxic man out of Boston.

[SPEAKER_01]: No, no sir, you cannot.

[SPEAKER_01]: But honorable mention to, and this is like the neurodivergent people who are listening will understand.

[SPEAKER_01]: I've never really talked about this ever.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, Lego.

[SPEAKER_01]: has these like lines of toys that are in like this sort of like these sets that are within this sort of general theme and when I was when I was in like first grade they came out with one called rock raiders and that was all of these deep mining vehicles with big drills on them and they had these characters and one of them was this sandy haired ginger who was like a driver of one of these truck things his name was Axel [SPEAKER_01]: and he had on this forage vest in this big helmet with goggles and like red hair and I didn't realize at the time that this was totally a gay crush that I had on a fictional character I just thought like oh he's my favorite one but when I look back at it that was such a little gay boy non-sexual crush and there's something so special about those relationships.

[SPEAKER_01]: it's a piece of plastic this big.

[SPEAKER_00]: I was going to ask how big it was.

[SPEAKER_00]: Are we talking like it's fully the tiny Lego size?

[SPEAKER_00]: Like the Lego man.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Is that big?

[SPEAKER_00]: Wait, so you had your first crush was a inch and a half tall ginger construction Lego man.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think so.

[SPEAKER_00]: Can I ask about this divorce a little bit because I think that there's it's really interesting that in our adult life times gay marriage became legal and then we were of course very excited about that but we don't often talk or think about [SPEAKER_00]: the very natural side of relationships ending, especially when it comes to gay marriage.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, did you, I guess question one is, how do you look back on getting married and then getting gay married and getting gay divorced?

[SPEAKER_00]: Does it feel like something that was really important?

[SPEAKER_00]: Learning lesson, do you have any regrets?

[SPEAKER_00]: Do you have any things that you carry with you moving forward in dating?

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, what's the temperature of your feelings now about it?

[SPEAKER_01]: Um, I mean, it's been three and a half years since it ended, um, after it ended, it was, oh, it's terrible for me.

[SPEAKER_01]: It was, I was drinking so heavily that I would be that I would just miss meetings.

[SPEAKER_01]: I was supposed to be running that work like in the morning and like looking back.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't like to regret things.

[SPEAKER_01]: Um, I probably shouldn't have gotten married.

[SPEAKER_01]: But just as part of my growth in my development, I wouldn't, I really am very happy like I'm at a peak right now.

[SPEAKER_01]: I've never been better.

[SPEAKER_01]: I've never felt better.

[SPEAKER_01]: I've never looked better.

[SPEAKER_00]: Let's celebrate that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Let's take a moment to celebrate that because that is what that growth.

[SPEAKER_00]: Would you be credit are we crediting therapy or are we crediting drink therapy helps?

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if it's really drinking less.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's just more taking the time to process through all of the emotions having absolutely like I don't give a fuck as much as I did before.

[SPEAKER_01]: I got a motorcycle after I got divorced.

[SPEAKER_01]: and I start like I moved to San Francisco and I just started living more.

[SPEAKER_01]: I stopped playing video games.

[SPEAKER_01]: I got rid of my TV.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so I've just been living more intentionally.

[SPEAKER_01]: And when my husband and I we met when we were in college, I was 20.

[SPEAKER_01]: He was 21.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh wow.

[SPEAKER_01]: For people, especially gay men, who you are at 20 is so different from who you are.

[SPEAKER_00]: Say that.

[SPEAKER_01]: At 20, 29.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it's like, I love this man.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's from Northern California, but his family are OKs who went to the who fled during the Dust Bowl.

[SPEAKER_01]: So they brought their like southern twang.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so I just like I would go to like cattle round-ups with his family and they were wonderful people.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I still say y'all because of them.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't regret it.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's just God, it was not fun.

[SPEAKER_01]: If I could not go through it again, that'd be fantastic.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I mean, and I, and I hope that for you, but can you tell us because I was talking last night with some, I was with some married gays.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm married gay.

[SPEAKER_00]: We were talking about sort of like, and they were talking about how they broke up at one point and got back together.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's how many years into it.

[SPEAKER_00]: And they said it was six years.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, well, the six, seven year itch is very real.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, Matt and I absolutely had that.

[SPEAKER_00]: How long were you, if you met in your early 20s and you got lost three years ago.

[SPEAKER_00]: How long were you together?

[SPEAKER_01]: We worked together, so let's see.

[SPEAKER_01]: If we move on, I was 20, we got married in 2019.

[SPEAKER_01]: When I was 26, and then we split up two and a half years later at I think I was 29.

[SPEAKER_00]: Wow, so yeah, that's there.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that's a long time and that and I think, especially you're talking about like the developmentally speaking, the development of especially gay guys, you know, we really have to be kind to ourselves because our adolescence sees we're not really ours in many ways.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so I think it is a sign of strength to be like, you know what?

[SPEAKER_00]: I wish I just wish that there was less stigma about divorce I do and I and I'm like very proud to be married and I'm proud of the hard work that we have done but I also never want people who break up or get divorced to let it feel bad because there are so many couples that should have gotten divorce that didn't and I'm very happy that you are on this current timeline being happy and hey and healthy and it was so [SPEAKER_01]: it was such an important part like getting divorced was just as significant in the development of who I am as getting married was.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, and now I'm just I'm I'm great.

[SPEAKER_01]: I love that I'm divorced.

[SPEAKER_01]: I love that I'm 32 and I can already say I've done all that in the past.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I'm sitting in an interesting space because I am now exactly six, we were together six years before getting married.

[SPEAKER_00]: And now we've been married for six years.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we're like straight, we've been together for 12 years total.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we are sort of like been together the same amount of time as married people as we were as non-married people.

[SPEAKER_00]: And to like, to like, I don't know, feel the difference of both of those times is both like not that different, being married and unmarried and also incredibly different.

[SPEAKER_00]: like force to figure shit out, especially as we're very much growing up into different people than we were before we were married.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so like, yeah, sometimes those people, those people want different things than they do, then they both did five years ago.

[SPEAKER_00]: Egg, Zach, to Lee, but we always shout out the couple's therapist that we adore and our couple's therapist is a dream.

[SPEAKER_00]: In fact, we have friends who referred us to this couple's therapist.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so now we and other married friends of ours see the same guy and we got a text yesterday.

[SPEAKER_00]: They were walking around Palm Springs and they ran into him in person.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know though.

[SPEAKER_00]: I was kind of jealous.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's a type of therapist like I like want to please I like I like adore him and he's also like this like he's like pretty hot But also like I feel not like I want to fuck my therapist is more just like I Right, you know Much to therapist be the guy that tears the marriage apart See that's the rom-com slash horror movie that's the movie that the gaze need right now [SPEAKER_01]: They go to the marriage therapist and then one of them has an affair.

[SPEAKER_00]: Literally I didn't I will tell you I had that thought about writing something about this because it's it's and you're gonna We're gonna workshop it and we're both gonna now try to pitch opposing gay divorce therapist stories or we'll do it together But you know what Colin Braun I think at this time for me to get into my hornyest of horny questions because it's rare We're gonna talk to a man who has been traveling through Europe for the past many months in fact [SPEAKER_00]: You spend time in Paris, Switzerland, Berlin, and you're currently in Dublin.

[SPEAKER_00]: Are there any memorable slut tails from this European part of your life, or any just slut tails?

[SPEAKER_00]: You would like to start us out with?

[SPEAKER_01]: In a word, yes.

[SPEAKER_01]: So many.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's a surprising number of American guys have just like, I'll see someone at this was hilarious.

[SPEAKER_01]: and I'm walking back to my hotel and I'm in this gay neighborhood and I just see this attractive man coming at me at the crosswalk and I'm going the other way and I kind of turn and he kind of turns and looks at me and I say my classic pickup line which is, are you a top?

[SPEAKER_00]: And he's dead.

[SPEAKER_00]: For the rest of this interview, head to sub-stack linked in the description.

[SPEAKER_00]: You can also watch bonus episodes with Mikey Grassefa from Deathbecomesher, Isaiah Rutledge, Sunset Boulevard's Demon Moon.

[SPEAKER_00]: We have Derek Cage, Patrick, Nick, Thana, Mark, they're all hot.

[SPEAKER_00]: The stories are amazing and you should go check it out at substack.com slash at Eric Will's linked in the description.

[SPEAKER_00]: I love you, bye!