[SPEAKER_01]: Really, really gay podcast that we called that's a gay podcast.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's a gay, not a name for a gay podcast.

[SPEAKER_00]: Jeremy Crittenden is here on that's a gay ass podcast.

[SPEAKER_00]: With a split on your Fingy, Jeremy, tell me.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_00]: Are you okay?

[SPEAKER_00]: Was it fitness or fisting or otherwise?

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I really want to say that I broke it inside a twang, but unfortunately, it was a football accident, which is arguably a hot way to get injured.

[SPEAKER_00]: Wait, you were playing the literal literal football when you hurt your finger?

[SPEAKER_01]: literal football.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there's a gay football league in New York.

[SPEAKER_01]: Actually, there's a gay football league like in many cities across America.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm in the one in New York City.

[SPEAKER_01]: 200 gay guys playing flag football.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's the most fun I've ever had.

[SPEAKER_01]: I've really been enjoying it.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm devastated that I can't be playing right now.

[SPEAKER_01]: Because if we're in the playoffs and my team's doing great.

[SPEAKER_01]: Every time I'm not there, my team wins.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm probably a curse.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I was having a great time all the last of it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, obviously, the sports of it all is great to have gay sort of reclaim the sports arena.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I want to know about the social atmosphere of the gay football.

[SPEAKER_00]: Is it giving everyone sisters?

[SPEAKER_00]: Are there is there drama with hookups?

[SPEAKER_00]: Is there are people dating?

[SPEAKER_00]: What's happening behind the scenes of Flag Football after dark?

[SPEAKER_01]: it's exactly what you want it to be like yeah there's absolutely a little bit of drama but it's total sisterhood, total sisterhood people really like there is a great social element to it's so game days usually Saturday and then after the games because there's a few games that night everybody you know there's a coordination of here's the bar that we're going to go to tonight and you know I bartend as well so usually I'm bartending after the games so [SPEAKER_01]: after we played, and it's maybe one of the most fun nights I've ever had at a gay bar.

[SPEAKER_00]: Wow, were you spending the whole night just serving drinks or were you getting...

Well, before that question, have you ever hooked up with anybody from gay football?

[SPEAKER_01]: No, I have not.

[SPEAKER_01]: I have not hooked that listen.

[SPEAKER_01]: I joined the league kind of midstream this year.

[SPEAKER_01]: I was on the waitlist for a while.

[SPEAKER_01]: Somebody else got injured.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I joined midstream.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I will see there are some very attractive men in the gay football league.

[SPEAKER_00]: I love the trail of injured gay men that are now having to drop out of gay flag football and then you're off the way list.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of incredible.

[SPEAKER_00]: But listen, there's still time for you to get dicked down by a flag football fag.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I hope that if that's something you want, I hope it happens for you.

[SPEAKER_01]: Manna, from your mouth to God's ears.

[SPEAKER_00]: to whatever Sam, there's some gay football guy's name, name Sam, something.

[SPEAKER_00]: Um, we love gay athletes, we love Jeremy Krittenden who posts gorgeous content on the internet, but you're also, as you say, you are giving bartender realness, you are giving actor realness, comedian, realness, you also have a show that is called undatable.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm bringing this out because before we get into the second half of this interview where I asked my horniest hard-hitting [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, this description for the show really struck me.

[SPEAKER_00]: Undatable as described as Jeremy Kritten den is a single gay 40 something back on the market after his second divorce with all that baggage.

[SPEAKER_00]: He has one big question is he even dateable Jeremy.

[SPEAKER_00]: The rumors are true.

[SPEAKER_00]: You are post second divorce.

[SPEAKER_00]: Is that do you feel powerful being a two time gay divorce say?

[SPEAKER_01]: I do feel like a trailblazer.

[SPEAKER_01]: I did wonder for a while if I was the most divorced gay in the United States, like probably not, but the odds were not terrible.

[SPEAKER_01]: I will say I have since met somebody who has been divorced three times a great, a gay person who has the divorce hat trick, which is really impressive.

[SPEAKER_00]: Really impressive.

[SPEAKER_00]: What's the timeline for your divorces?

[SPEAKER_00]: When was divorce one?

[SPEAKER_00]: When was divorce two?

[SPEAKER_01]: So divorce one was finalized in late 2016.

[SPEAKER_01]: Just as I was starting a relationship with who would become husband number two.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then.

[SPEAKER_00]: Amazing.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I mean, listen, divorce sometimes takes a while.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, you know, we were, we had been separated for a long time, but, um, and then divorce number two is fresh.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's very, very fresh.

[SPEAKER_01]: So we split up a few years ago.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then, um, that divorce process, I think is done.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's wrapped up.

[SPEAKER_00]: Crossie.

[SPEAKER_01]: 100% sure.

[SPEAKER_01]: Wow.

[SPEAKER_00]: To not know if you're divorced is really again.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's almost like you're giving old character Actress who is just counting the amount of men.

[SPEAKER_00]: She has been married to.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's giving Elizabeth Taylor.

[SPEAKER_00]: I do, on a half-serious note, I do think that it is sort of amazing to be that sort of trailblazers because when gay marriage became legal, obviously what comes next is gay divorce, and I think that you even have a video about how straight divorce is what you said like 42-ish percent lesbians are like [SPEAKER_00]: Saturday something, which is surprising and wild.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then gay man moving in too quick.

[SPEAKER_01]: They're moving in too quick.

[SPEAKER_01]: Lesbians, you know you're moving in too quick.

[SPEAKER_01]: We know you're moving in too quick.

[SPEAKER_00]: Love you, but well, listen.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I love, you know, a girly who thinks she knows what she wants.

[SPEAKER_00]: And if she's wrong, then that's just the price we pay.

[SPEAKER_00]: But then you think gay men gay men are like pretty low or pretty low when it comes to divorce rates.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's like 28% or something that I read.

[SPEAKER_00]: which I think part of that of course is the idea that we as gay men sort of run away from certain heteronormative ideas.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think a lot of straight couples get divorced probably because of quote unquote cheating.

[SPEAKER_00]: One of course gay men are more likely to be involved in open relationships which can create more communication and listen.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not here to have the open relationship discourse [SPEAKER_00]: But I guess I'm curious about did you learn anything different from the first marriage versus the second?

[SPEAKER_00]: How do you look back on it now even I guess you're fresh off the second?

[SPEAKER_00]: But how do you look back on these divorces and your takeaways?

[SPEAKER_01]: I would say like, my first husband whose name is also Jeremy, which, you know, we can unpack that at some point.

[SPEAKER_01]: Great.

[SPEAKER_01]: Wonderful guy.

[SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, we met when we were in our early 20s.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I really look at that as like we kind of grew up together.

[SPEAKER_01]: We were basically kids when we got together and, you know, there was a lot of, we were monogamous and we were open and we were breaking up and getting back together and like, [SPEAKER_01]: 12, 13 years that we were together, it's a really long relationship.

[SPEAKER_01]: But it's when I started to realize like a bad habit of mine in a relationship is that I'm very easily sort of sucked into somebody's orbit, you know?

[SPEAKER_01]: And but I also have like really strong aspirations of my own and eventually at some point I found in my relationships that I'm really good at like sort of like, [SPEAKER_01]: Slicing off things about myself in order to be the partner that somebody else wants and then eventually I realize oh I have no limbs here, you know, I don't really know what I'm doing.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, you're describing there's a word that has come up in my therapy that I think is very normal in a lot of relationships, which is what codependence and I think that we have been modeled.

[SPEAKER_00]: that codependence is healthy actually that it's like yeah when you're only when you lose yourself in your partner when you're only with your partner when you are only prioritizing your partner they're that can be sort of mistranslated to a codependence where you actually are losing parts of yourself and losing your ability to stand as an individual knowing that you are also developing yourself as a single person, single person and then of course your relationship [SPEAKER_00]: I think codependence is like really very, very classic and so many of us deal with it.

[SPEAKER_01]: for sure.

[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, I, so I think out of marriage one, I really learned that that's a real, uh, that's a really easy trap for me to fall into.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then coming out of a marriage two, like if we're being totally honest with each other, um, coming out of marriage two, I, I learned that I had been fighting with depression for a really, really long time.

[SPEAKER_01]: And maybe it took the pandemic, um, [SPEAKER_01]: to really unleash that.

[SPEAKER_01]: But when that marriage wrapped up, it was very, very hard.

[SPEAKER_01]: I had a full breakdown and really realized then, I was like, oh, this is depression has been something that I've been fighting with my entire life.

[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, now I at least have a grip on that, which is great.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I would also say out of out of that, you know, that marriage ended just as [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, okay, so I defined the first 40 years of my life by being in relationships, by being someone's son, by being someone's boyfriend, by being a husband, by being another husband, and I thought, okay, this is perfect.

[SPEAKER_01]: So if 40 is around the midway mark, because let's be honest, 40 is around the midway mark, guys.

[SPEAKER_01]: that I get this opportunity to define the next 40 years by doing the things that I want to do.

[SPEAKER_01]: And if I do end up in a relationship again, which God knows, that I want to define it as holding onto these things that I'm doing now, that have made me happier than I've ever been.

[SPEAKER_01]: forcing myself to be that person in a relationship so that I'm in control of me.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I think the irony in that too is that the more you work on your own stuff and whether it's working on the tools to find what keeps you out of a depressive spiral or just what makes you really light up and feel authentically or yourself.

[SPEAKER_00]: that will probably, if you end up wanting to be in a relationship, that will actually probably make your next relationship that much stronger because you've done the work as an individual, which we say, God bless.

[SPEAKER_00]: I do know, of course, want to hear about the current dating of it all, the sex of it all, but before we go into the present, I want to go quickly into the past to hear about Jeremy, [SPEAKER_00]: As a young gay, well, first of all, are you a Canadian turn to American?

[SPEAKER_00]: Canadian, what's the, what's your nationality with the situation?

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm Canadian, so I grew up in Canada, I moved to America when I got married to my second husband.

[SPEAKER_00]: I see.

[SPEAKER_00]: I see.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm technically an immigrant.

[SPEAKER_01]: I hold a green card, but citizenship, I think you'd do citizenship in like another year, so but I do plan on getting that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Wow.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so you, okay, so you go from what part of Canada were you in before moving to New York?

[SPEAKER_01]: So I grew up near Calgary, Alberta, which is like the Texas of Canada, and then I lived in Vancouver for a lot of years and then Toronto briefly before moving down here.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, shout out.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, we love the Canadians.

[SPEAKER_00]: We love immigrants.

[SPEAKER_00]: They get the job done, et cetera, et cetera.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the job, baby.

[SPEAKER_00]: My question that going into your herstery is about the first boy boy kiss.

[SPEAKER_00]: Can you tell me if you remember who and where you were?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, of course I can't.

[SPEAKER_01]: My first boy boy kiss was I was 17 years old.

[SPEAKER_01]: I was in Edmonton, which is sort of like one of the bigger cities in the province I grew up in.

[SPEAKER_01]: I was doing the musical fame.

[SPEAKER_01]: And there was [SPEAKER_01]: it was my first and like I didn't know like so the town of grew up in is medicine hat Alberta I was the only gay person that I knew and I came out when I was 16 so I went into this show and the day that I got there and we started rehearsal there was this beautiful boy who was a dancer and he was just like I was [SPEAKER_01]: the minute I met him I was absolutely intoxicated.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, give us the description.

[SPEAKER_00]: I always still know what he looked like.

[SPEAKER_00]: I was so intoxicating about his look.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think we're about like the same height he was like, you know, he's in dancer shape and like how tall are you?

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like five nine.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so five nine dancer and you walk in and you say that boy is mine.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, absolutely.

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, no, I didn't say that because I, because I never been with a guy.

[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, oh my god, I wish that boy could be mine.

[SPEAKER_01]: I wish that boy could be mine, you know, and we hit it off and I remember [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yes.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, this is so sweet.

[SPEAKER_01]: Man, this takes me back.

[SPEAKER_01]: So we went to a bunch of us in the show, went to go and see another play one night.

[SPEAKER_01]: And we were sitting beside each other in the theater.

[SPEAKER_01]: And just it was one of those things where like all of a sudden you realize, oh, our knees are touching and nobody's moving their leg.

[SPEAKER_01]: and then all of a sudden are like our hands are kind of touching at the side of the chair and nobody's moving a hand and then all of a sudden we're holding hands and it was so sweet it was so sweet and I think that was the night we're like saying goodbye we had a little you know we had a little a little kiss I spent the night at his place I might have spent the night at his place um yeah how fast we go from it might have been a little kiss too you were [SPEAKER_00]: that is it was really really it was really cute and sweet and oh my gosh I haven't thought about that in years thank you for letting me like relive that well thank you for good patience there I have to say that it's rare we get to hear about young sweet innocent love in that way when it comes to gay love because so much of it is like for me my was still somewhat sweet and young but I waited till I was in college and I was like [SPEAKER_00]: I tried to feel like I was in a doll, but I was still very much a child, but yours sounds very much like, I don't know, it's so young and sweet and innocent and if you may tell you a quick story that you actually brought me to [SPEAKER_00]: There were two like cabaret singing professionals that were New York Gurlies who came to St.

Louis, Missouri where I'm from and they produced like a cabaret workshop how to like, you know, nail a cabaret show song and I was a really, you know, ambitious young musical theater teenager And I said in my parents, I want to do this workshop [SPEAKER_00]: and it was only for adults but for some reason they let me in and the song that I sang was from fame and it was um to play a love scene um oh we can't and it's like and so and I and the reason I got theories because I was so closeted and all these and there was a gap guys gay people in this workshop of course [SPEAKER_00]: And they all knew that I was gay.

[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't really know and they had me sing that song as if I was singing it to my best friend because they knew they didn't want to give me like a romantic partner to sing to because they knew what I was going through even though I really didn't.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm singing that song to my best friend in my mind and I just think about that young boy that was like so deeply deeply closet and ashamed and surrounded by adults who knew more than he did.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that musical fame really really took me back to that memory.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, wow, look at us, look at us.

[SPEAKER_01]: I love that.

[SPEAKER_01]: And you know what, like, what a gift for you as a young man to like have those adults and that's the thing that I think about for me growing up in a well two things growing up in a small town where I didn't know anybody who was gay but also like we lost so many of the people in the generation that were ahead of us, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: And so those elders that I have like in my life had an opportunity to connect with even though it's been like much later in life I just like I treasure those men so much and I'm so grateful that You know been able to learn from them.

[SPEAKER_01]: As a matter of fact, there was a man I met right around the time of my second divorce that [SPEAKER_01]: wonderful guy, uh, his name is David and, um, he's not with us anymore, but are the last time we visited together, and I, you know, I knew he was dying.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that would be the thing you were always saying, like, hey, David, how are you?

[SPEAKER_01]: He's like, well, I'm dying, but I'm still here, you know?

[SPEAKER_00]: Wow.

[SPEAKER_01]: And we had a really beautiful conversation.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I was saying to him, I was like, yeah, you know, I'm not going to date again.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't really, I don't, you know, I'm good.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I've been married twice.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, particularly my second marriage, I consider it to be like a really great love.

[SPEAKER_01]: And like, I'm good.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't need to go through this a third time.

[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, he listened to me like, you know, really intently.

[SPEAKER_01]: And he just let me kind of go.

[SPEAKER_01]: and then he asked me, so what, what do you do when you feel lonely at night?

[SPEAKER_01]: And it wasn't something that I really thought about.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then he said, what do you do then when you want someone to hold you?

[SPEAKER_01]: And so these were things coming out of like this relationship and like starting into this next segment of my life that I was going to be like, [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, err, for the rest of the days, you know, that really made me go like, do, oh, God, what do I do in those situations?

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I'm not a very lonely person, but there are times like, you know, I am at a point now where I go like, I do miss having a person in my life, but I'm a fucking terrified of it, you know?

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I think it's really interesting that we can allow ourselves to go through these different phases and sometimes the phases feel like they're forever.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's like a whole phase in our mind.

[SPEAKER_00]: You'd be like, I just want to be a fucking slut until the day I die.

[SPEAKER_00]: And for some of us, maybe that is the case and we celebrate that.

[SPEAKER_00]: But the biggest lesson I have learned [SPEAKER_00]: as a gay ass fucking adult is allowing ourselves to pivot and to change and to grow.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I love seeing you in a whole phase, but you never know what comes after her home and it's exciting to be able to find that out.

[SPEAKER_00]: Speaking of, I think this is a perfect chance for us to get into some of the whole question, so I'm curious about if any hookups come to mind that we're either super formative or sexy, exciting, shocking, surprising, just stand out in your mind in any way.

[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, listen, I...this is a little toxic.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm a big advocate for X-X.

[SPEAKER_01]: I love X-X.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think X-X is the best X.

[SPEAKER_01]: If any of my X's are watching or listening right now, any time boys, any time.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, okay.

[SPEAKER_01]: There, I can't believe it until this story, there was a time that a partner and I.

[SPEAKER_00]: For the rest of this interview, head to sub-stack linked in the description.

[SPEAKER_00]: You can also watch bonus episodes with Mikey Grisepha from Death Becomes her.

[SPEAKER_00]: Isaiah Rutledge, Sunset Boulevard's Demon Moon.

[SPEAKER_00]: We have Derek Cage, Patrick, Nick, Thana, Mark, [SPEAKER_00]: The stories are amazing and you should go check it out at substack.com slash at Eric Will's linked in the description.

[SPEAKER_00]: I love you, bye!