[SPEAKER_02]: Really, really gay podcast that we called that's a gay podcast.

[SPEAKER_02]: Had the gay ass name for a gay podcast.

[SPEAKER_01]: Welcome back to that's a gay ass podcast.

[SPEAKER_01]: The podcast that asks who's fault is it that you're gay?

[SPEAKER_02]: It is me, Eric Williams, and this week we have Angus O'Brien on the podcast, and not only celebrate boots on Netflix, the incredible news show that I'm just obsessed with, but also celebrate the Halloween as over.

[SPEAKER_02]: Uh, it's been a long week.

[SPEAKER_02]: If you know, you know, uh, we do not talk about Halloween in this interview, but I do talk about it with Peru Flora's over on sub-stack, which you can access right me out linked in the description.

[SPEAKER_02]: But please, in the meantime, enjoy this very horny.

[SPEAKER_02]: vulnerable, delicious conversation with Angus O'Brien.

[SPEAKER_02]: Angus, listen the brunch up.

[SPEAKER_02]: I am so obsessed with boots and I'm so obsessed with you and I'm so glad you're here on this gay as podcast and thank you for coming with a club red lighting.

[SPEAKER_02]: Did you bring sunny lighting on purpose?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I wanted to just make sure it was extra gay for you today.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I really, I judged up the hue bulbs to their maximum gay judge.

[SPEAKER_02]: The hue, babe, you also are giving us for anybody who's listening and not watching.

[SPEAKER_02]: We have a cut off blue tea.

[SPEAKER_02]: It says filth on it.

[SPEAKER_02]: I wore a white sort of military tank in order to wash to boots.

[SPEAKER_02]: So why does it say filth angus?

[SPEAKER_02]: Are you a filthy queen?

[SPEAKER_00]: I would say, yeah, I'm a filthy queen.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to say it's also, I wanted to give homage to my sort of filthy, dirty character in the show as well.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's so well done, Angus, and I have to say that you do so many things well in the show, but also off the show.

[SPEAKER_02]: In fact, as a hard-hitting game journalist or Instagram buy, I will be bringing up.

[SPEAKER_02]: It says, I always have a place at the dairy queen.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, Angus so Brian, that is a quote from a movie.

[SPEAKER_02]: That turned me into the homosexual you see today.

[SPEAKER_02]: And you're taking out the tell the girls what the movie is and why is that clote in your bio.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's Parker Posey in waiting for Guffman and it's I mean Parker Posey is to me like the everything.

[SPEAKER_00]: influence and so I just had to throw a little something up there for her.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's such a great reference.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean that movie.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm from Missouri originally the fact that movie takes place in Blaine, Missouri, which I do think is made up, but I just, I don't know.

[SPEAKER_02]: When was your first time seeing waiting for government?

[SPEAKER_02]: What does the movie mean to you?

[SPEAKER_02]: Why do you lure of it?

[SPEAKER_00]: I would say I found that movie through a sort of Parker Posey rabbit hole that I was in.

[SPEAKER_00]: Party girls, one of my favorite movies of all time, it feels like so New York and so I watched that movie for the first time when I was in my mid-20s and I just there's so many things I love about it and then I was kind of like [SPEAKER_00]: I got obsessed with Parker Posey and I will say like a lot of my inspirations as an actor are just like from women like obviously that's like the classic gay experience it's going to be these like iconic women and so that movie.

[SPEAKER_00]: I sort of found on the rabbit hole of my Parker posi journey.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh my god, a Parker posi journey is something like every gay guy should go on.

[SPEAKER_02]: I remember I was maybe in eighth grade, no joke, but this gay story is very real.

[SPEAKER_02]: I was in like the theater classroom of my high school and a girl brought in waiting for a government.

[SPEAKER_02]: She played it on the VHS and I watched it for my first time.

[SPEAKER_02]: Deeply closeted, but just felt so obsessed with her with [SPEAKER_02]: Obviously, Korky saying Claire.

[SPEAKER_02]: Obviously, Catherine O'Hara.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think Parker Pozzi's audition scene.

[SPEAKER_02]: Teacher Teacher, I love you.

[SPEAKER_02]: Wow!

[SPEAKER_02]: Everything about it is just...

[SPEAKER_02]: It is just something that puts fuel into our gay fire, but Since I'm getting it to now sort of Angushurstery, where were you growing up and then after I hear from that I will ask you the gas pod question, but where did Angus sort of begin his gay yesterday?

[SPEAKER_00]: I grew up my guest journey began in Los Angeles and I am a raised in Los Angeles born in New York and then moved to L.A.

when I was still too young to remember.

[SPEAKER_02]: So L.A.'s my hometown or is that and those your parents or Holly would weirdos?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: So my mom did sops when before I was born and then she had me and my brother and retired.

[SPEAKER_00]: But when we, so she was with my dad, we lived in Vermont for like a very brief period.

[SPEAKER_00]: My mom and dad got divorced.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then they both moved to LA, like kind of separately.

[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, that was it really.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, my mom didn't really, at that point, I don't think she was working.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think she was doing so anymore, but she was just like, I wanna go to LA.

[SPEAKER_00]: So that's very aware.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then you said, Mama, I want to be on the screen as well.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then you went to NYU.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, you studied at Adler, am I correct?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, that's correct.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm an Atlantic king myself.

[SPEAKER_00]: No way.

[SPEAKER_02]: We have a, we can trauma bomb there.

[SPEAKER_02]: But since you are here on this chaos podcast, and you're already giving us nuggets of beautiful parts of your lore, I'm going to ask you the chaos podcast question, which is, [SPEAKER_02]: Is it that?

[SPEAKER_02]: You're okay.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, maybe even babe.

[SPEAKER_00]: I love this question and there's there were so many things that come to mind, but I'm gonna say the first thing that came to mind, which is specifically the costume design in Batman forever and particularly Chris O'Donnell in Batman forever.

[SPEAKER_00]: There was no need for them to do everything that they did, [SPEAKER_02]: girl they did it and let's just say we'll address the perky elephant in the room which is the nipples.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's the nipples.

[SPEAKER_00]: I was that's exactly what I was going to say.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's there was no someone took the time to design the indentations of the nipples and the bulge.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just like there was a gay person like had to be cooking.

[SPEAKER_00]: No, there was.

[SPEAKER_02]: The people listening are no his name.

[SPEAKER_02]: Unfortunately, it's [SPEAKER_02]: to be t s for that for that movie and I think we always have to shout them out because Chris O'Donnell, I think it's partly like the nipples, the bulge shore, but also like they put some sort of gloss on his lips.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: They're taking all the words out of my mouth.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I love to go lip-locked with you English because there's like, I don't know, I picture just [SPEAKER_02]: grabbing him by the face, pulling him in, and then just like feeling the like, the glossiness, the glossiness of the lips.

[SPEAKER_02]: And of course, I would picture my hands roaming in elsewhere.

[SPEAKER_02]: But of course, what do you think?

[SPEAKER_02]: What do you think Chris O'Donnell feels about so many gay guys, lasting over him?

[SPEAKER_02]: Do you think he likes it?

[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like he's probably like, especially since that's so, like, that's such an early reference point for him in his career that he's probably like, [SPEAKER_00]: He's probably pumped that he has such a established, sex symbol moment when he was younger and also just going back to what I find so erotic about the whole situation is the juxtaposition of this really kind of carved out like physique with this very pretty boy soft face moment happening.

[SPEAKER_00]: there.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I just love that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, it's I think there's we're obviously going to get into the boots of it all, but before we do so I just want to say that something about the show that I think mirrors you, Angus, that's really interesting is the cross between like masculinity, sort of heteronormativity.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: And embracing our queerness and what makes us not a part of [SPEAKER_02]: quote unquote mainstream society.

[SPEAKER_02]: And so while I think boots does such a great job of showing us that tension, I feel like you Angus O'Brien have this past and present of like you've written about being a cis straight presenting dude with pretty masculine qualities.

[SPEAKER_02]: they also look a gay guy.

[SPEAKER_02]: Were you when you were growing up?

[SPEAKER_02]: Were you someone that was able to sort of like pass as it were?

[SPEAKER_02]: Did you have any faggy tendencies like what was it like and did you come out earlier or later because of that?

[SPEAKER_00]: So I came out and I came out in high school because I didn't even really understand my sexuality until high school.

[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like it's honestly hard to remember looking back.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't feel like I was ever particularly masculine.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, when I was younger, I think I just sort of [SPEAKER_00]: insecure middle schooler.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I feel like it wasn't until so I came out in high school.

[SPEAKER_00]: I was very fortunate like my family is very liberal.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's no problem there.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then I kind of like actually surprisingly it wasn't the acting school that was the incubator for my more like gayer tendencies.

[SPEAKER_00]: But it was this other class.

[SPEAKER_00]: I took this academic class that was like a [SPEAKER_00]: performance and politics like academic sort of class, but in the class it was like it was my first time being in a small classroom with like all different kinds of people like gay people queer people lesbians trans people like and everyone got an opportunity to speak each class and it was my first sort of regular exposure to like [SPEAKER_00]: people beyond just gay people similar to myself and I remember thinking like it was so much cooler than just to like the gay people in my life and and I feel like then is like I feel like gain is at its best when we're adopting our more feminine qualities.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's because we have like a reverence for women like I think obviously there are plenty things gay people do that [SPEAKER_00]: are not like super celebratory of women, but I hope that we can aspire to like and unilating and celebrating women more.

[SPEAKER_02]: I love that.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't often think about like, how we...

[SPEAKER_02]: Embrace femininity because it is an homage to the women that sort of, we, I don't know because I think there is a whole conversation in the gay community about like, you know, being to femme or again passing as like mask and I think that it's true that like the more that we.

[SPEAKER_02]: can embrace the feminine side of us.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think that it, it just is the more free we feel because it really isn't knowing and just exhausting to try to just be a dude.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I think it's probably why watching boots is sort of triggering.

[SPEAKER_02]: In a way that I know it's meant to be because it's like so macho.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that I found it hard to watch at times again because it was meant to be hard to watch because it's so like, [SPEAKER_02]: It's all about being masculine and strong, but of course, feeling desperately out of place still wanting to belong.

[SPEAKER_02]: But it sounds like you sort of maybe never felt out of place, but it took this class for you to feel like, oh, there's a lot more than just my experience.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think I was just like, there is a route of [SPEAKER_00]: the gay guy experience which is just like I have to be a specific kind of way and I have to look a specific kind of way and act a specific kind of way and it is like I don't know if you can free yourself from that.

[SPEAKER_00]: I guess it's just more fun I think.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, wait, what is the Queenia's quality of of you?

[SPEAKER_02]: Again, because I love, I love how you're able to play these roles that have such like a dude's strength in them but I want to know outside of the off cam, Angus O'Brien, [SPEAKER_00]: Requeenious quality is probably that I am like obsessed with being five nine because I love when a guy is taller than me I Always joke.

[SPEAKER_00]: I always joke with my boyfriend who is I'm sorry to brag like taller than six feet How tall is he?

[SPEAKER_00]: Like six to I think that's why I'm not a fucking brag, but I'm six to Okay, but I will say like the like I always joke with him that is like there exists in me this fantasy of being like a [SPEAKER_02]: 2000s brunette actress that like is just like leaning into like a taller man and I just like I'm obsessed with that I mean yes with that thing about it's almost like you want to be held up like your a damsel and distress your long hair cascades down his nipples we'll say it and I don't know is it is it just because like [SPEAKER_02]: you enjoy feeling sub?

[SPEAKER_02]: Is it a sub-eating?

[SPEAKER_02]: Is it like you're like it's it's hard to hold up the world at times and you just want to be held?

[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's like a combination of just like the physical sensation is so relaxing to me and also there is something about like [SPEAKER_00]: The unique experience of being a gay person who loves that, where it's like, I know that I am like a heavy dense person, but I like the fantasy of feeling like, like, and like, well, thing about it.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's like powerful businessmen and suits go to domes.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_02]: The shit whipped out of them because there's a lot of work.

[SPEAKER_02]: If I'm being honest with you, at six feet two, I used to.

[SPEAKER_02]: not enjoy being around men who were taller than me.

[SPEAKER_02]: It made me feel like, oh, really?

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, because I don't, and I truly have not unpacked why.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I remember in college, there's a guy.

[SPEAKER_02]: He's actually a very successful set designer.

[SPEAKER_02]: His name is Jason.

[SPEAKER_02]: Sure, would we shout him out.

[SPEAKER_01]: Jason?

[SPEAKER_02]: Sure, would, is like, six, five or something.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I remember every time I was around him, I was like, my nervous, my nervous and it wasn't until, [SPEAKER_02]: I hooked up with a guy that was, you know, six, three, six, four, and I really enjoyed it.

[SPEAKER_02]: That I was like, wait, I mean, and there's something that's being shorter than somebody.

[SPEAKER_02]: And now I'm like, fully, I've been, I've been radicalized, I taller, man.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think it really, there is something to being held.

[SPEAKER_02]: There's something to look like, but somebody, oh my god, putting your hands on shoulders that are taller than yours, wow, what a, [SPEAKER_00]: What a feeling you're speaking my language it's everything but I will say like I actually just recently had an experience where again, this is like what's so fun about being gay is like I was in a situation out I went out in LA with my friend and we went to hot dog Sunday and there was this there was this guy that was like [SPEAKER_00]: five foot like six maybe and I was like loving that moment of having that experience of being the six foot plus person when we were doing things together.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh yeah I mean we're gonna play it straight here and I'll tell you I do love a short king I do love you know if I when I have the strength to throw someone over my shoulder I will [SPEAKER_02]: Since we're talking about stature for a second, I would love some advice from you.

[SPEAKER_02]: Listeners know people who follow me know that I'm trying to grow tits.

[SPEAKER_02]: You have talked about amazing experience and amazing journey of getting sober.

[SPEAKER_02]: And in your sobriety, you've put on a bunch of weight sort of gaining mass and your fitness journey.

[SPEAKER_02]: Tell me, Angus, if I want to grow tits, what should I be eating and how do I get there?

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so I have like the the boring ish answer, which is that I used to do personal training before I was an actor smart and so I just feel like I know I know how to train for myself in a way that works, but in general, this is what I say to people is like in the gym, well obviously eating as a huge part of it, you need to make sure you're eating enough, but in the gym, the intensity should be [SPEAKER_00]: Hi, like, and what I mean by that is when you're doing a set by the end of it, it should literally be like you can't possibly do any more as long as you can do it safely, but that's important I hate working out everyone really well, it reminds me of P.E.

[SPEAKER_02]: and it makes me feel less than and it makes and like I'm just, you know, I'm just being honest here like it's I and to I will say I have been working out more in the past few weeks because I know it makes me feel better after because I much prefer [SPEAKER_02]: That feeling of like soreness and sure.

[SPEAKER_02]: I like joke about growing tits, but I also want to take care of my body My 97-year-old grandfather tells me he wishes he had taken better care of his himself He would just he had stretched every single day.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and he's been timing that for enough years.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm finally like [SPEAKER_02]: Taking better care of myself, but every time I go to a gym or do a workout, and I feel like okay I'm doing it to my capacity.

[SPEAKER_02]: It makes me feel like I am a weak piece of shit, and I don't like that feeling.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know how to get around it [SPEAKER_00]: So I will say that the flip side of that coin is just like try to find the pleasure and the satisfaction of like, when you push yourself to that point, and I don't mean to sound like a really broy here by any means, but go go go work.

[SPEAKER_00]: When you push yourself to that point where it's just like, [SPEAKER_00]: to the point where your body can physically not even, you're trying and you're trying and it just won't happen.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, there's something satisfying.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's so rare that we push ourselves to that point in anything in life.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so you can sort of pat yourself on the back, being like, I just try to really hard at doing something.

[SPEAKER_02]: I do think you're on to something.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think there needs to be, it's like that people talk about the runners high.

[SPEAKER_02]: They talk about like, I don't, I don't want to run but then of course I'm so pissed because after I ran I actually did feel better and it's like the, I think I honestly need to still tap into.

[SPEAKER_02]: that threshold of joy that derives from that pain because it's you know it's like I think we're living in the time where everybody is so trying to just like neutralize pain we're scrolling online so we don't have to worry about our own thoughts we are you know doing whatever we can just like live comfortable existences but you're right like pushing ourselves [SPEAKER_02]: Something that I think really actually connects to the show boots, which I want to get into for a sec because I want to tell you that [SPEAKER_02]: It is a big, big, big deal for someone like you to have grown up of course with these desires to act to go to college to study it.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's already something hard to do to pursue your dreams.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's even harder to get cast in a show that it's not only so well done, but has such an incredible message and is hitting so many people.

[SPEAKER_02]: Let's call a speed of speed.

[SPEAKER_02]: The show is killing it on Netflix.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's been in the top 10 since it's premiered.

[SPEAKER_02]: And for people who don't know, it stars Miles Heiser.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's inspired by the Pink Marine by Greg Cobb White, and it takes place in 1990 before Don't Asked On Talwa's past would basically be in gain and the military was fully illegal criminalized.

[SPEAKER_02]: You play the character Hicks, who is described as a nutjob.

[SPEAKER_02]: Before we get into sort of the deeper meanings of the show, I've asked you about your cleanest quality.

[SPEAKER_02]: Do you have any nutty qualities anything insane about you, Angus?

[SPEAKER_00]: insane.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I feel like to be honest, like, my most insane qualities were probably from my hardcore drug addict era, which ended three years ago, but I do feel like that is a big wealth of experience to tap into as far as, like, absolutely insane, a logical nutty behavior.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, no, I, and this is a very personal question and I'm curious.

[SPEAKER_02]: So as someone who is now sober and Mazeltov on three years, that is huge.

[SPEAKER_02]: Are you comfortable telling me like, [SPEAKER_02]: as an addict, was there a certain either feeling or place of pain that you felt that was a root of your using, does it connect your queerness at all?

[SPEAKER_02]: Just curious, because we all have so many demons.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm curious if that played a role in your using and getting sober.

[SPEAKER_00]: Thankfully, it felt very separate from my identity in my queerness, like I've always, [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it took me a little bit, but since college, I would say, and I really loved myself.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think, whoever is the power that be that I am gay every day.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like I would, you could not pay me enough money to be straight like I swear that's how I feel.

[SPEAKER_00]: Um, but I will say like for me, the big thing that little first of all, I come from a family of addicts and they're they're sober now.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's like everything's all good, but my childhood was kind of crazy.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I always tried to be like the.

[SPEAKER_00]: golden boy, you know, non-addict when I was younger.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I always felt like I had a fairly normal relationship to drugs in alcohol and then it wasn't until COVID where it changed for me because my relationship to where I did drugs and how frequently I did it just like it became so much more casual when I feel like before that it used to be a [SPEAKER_00]: sort of a location based activity and then post COVID.

[SPEAKER_00]: It was just like a whenever I felt like it based activity.

[SPEAKER_02]: So it went from social to like, just daily.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no, exactly.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's just it just snowballed from there and then hit the point where when I realized it wasn't fun anymore, but I still didn't stop.

[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, wow, this we've really.

[SPEAKER_00]: It finally came for me in the end, you know, well, they got me gal.

[SPEAKER_00]: It was really, they got me out.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, me alone in my bedroom saying they got me out.

[SPEAKER_02]: As I'm railing line, they're ketamine covered in cheeto puff powder.

[SPEAKER_02]: No, listen, I think it's really relatable that COVID really got us all out and I think that it takes a lot of strength to be like, you know, this might not be the healthiest date to day.

[SPEAKER_02]: I know it's a very sense of subject, but I [SPEAKER_02]: myself had to question my relationship to smoking weed in the past year.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I don't consider myself to be an addict.

[SPEAKER_02]: I do consider myself though to be someone that struggles with balance.

[SPEAKER_02]: And also just like emotional covering emotional escapism.

[SPEAKER_02]: If I'm not careful, I think it's like I can [SPEAKER_02]: you know, use weed to like not feel and that's where I get in trouble.

[SPEAKER_02]: And so I think, and I think a lot of it was COVID being like, you know, you've nothing but time and you can feel, I mean, that's why they fucking say, you know, drugs.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's why there's so much fear based around drugs is because they really can [SPEAKER_02]: But a beauty to you using your sobriety and informing that into how you work as an actor, and I just can't imagine what it was like shooting a show like boots with such a ensemble of actors.

[SPEAKER_02]: And again, for anybody who hasn't watched it yet, it's like all of these, yes, beautiful men, but it's also you going through these crazy physical challenges, and I can only imagine the long shoot days.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we shot over the course of two separate summers because we were split up by the strike.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we started, um, I can't remember the year.

[SPEAKER_00]: We started one summer.

[SPEAKER_00]: The strike happened.

[SPEAKER_00]: We went on a hiatus and then we waited until the following summer to come back and finish the show.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it was truly, I mean, the time we spent shooting aside, it's just been such a long journey [SPEAKER_00]: Quaking in our boots, sorry to say it about like possibly getting, you know, just getting canceled like after we finished the first three episodes and then thankfully how it was complete hell because like, you know, the producers and the like the powers that be above the cast in the crew, like no one's really sharing information with you as it comes.

[SPEAKER_00]: So you're you're all pretty like [SPEAKER_00]: in the dark as to what decisions are being made.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so we all really had to, uh, you know, we found refuge in the group chat frequently and we were like spiraling together and supporting each other and thankfully we got to come back and finish it and but that must be crazy to go back just because since I do like to learn about the mechanics of shooting something like this, [SPEAKER_02]: were you shooting it out of sequence where there were parts from like maybe the last few episodes that you're shooting in that first summer or because did that feel like a mine fuck that you were then shooting after a year off almost and then going back to two things that were earlier in the season like how did that feel?

[SPEAKER_00]: So thankfully, most of us had a pretty chronological experience with what we were shooting.

[SPEAKER_00]: The one thing Miles had to do some of the scenes in the final episode.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think it was when he first started that first, which is really kind of gaggy, because when I look at those scenes in the last episode, those are some of my favorite scenes, [SPEAKER_00]: You know, he basically shot those on week one being like, how did we get here?

[SPEAKER_00]: I guess we'll figure out.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I'm embarrassed to say that I wasn't really acquainted with Miles' work until boots.

[SPEAKER_02]: I know he's been a part of like huge things, what 13 reasons why he's a part of like that.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, parenthood.

[SPEAKER_02]: He's like, done these big big things, but I really just fell in love with him from watching boots and it's, you've talked about this too and some of your interviews and some of your writing.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's really, really special to watch queer people play queer roles.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that, again, this fucking masculinity of the show has like really hit me in a place that [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, there's this, there's a storyline about twins that really got to me.

[SPEAKER_02]: I have a twin brother who was my bully growing up and we're really great now, but I mean, there's just this show really, really strikes me because I just think that gay people growing up.

[SPEAKER_02]: If you're not lucky and growing up either like in a very liberal or forward-thinking place, we can be stuck in a place that feels like fucking boot camp and screaming at you and telling you that Europe fucking pussy, faggot bitch, and it is so crazy to watch you as a cast.

[SPEAKER_02]: go through that as of course actors, but also just think about how much was how much you were bonding off-screen.

[SPEAKER_02]: Were you so tired during shooting that you would not be able to like geeky after you wrapped the day or were you able to sort of let loose?

[SPEAKER_02]: So, thank you, Go Woods, [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: Thankfully, thankfully, because we were just all there every day, which is sort of abnormal for a TV show, normally you're popping in to do your scenes and then leaving.

[SPEAKER_00]: We were all working every single day the entire time, so we all got to Kiki with each other throughout the entire day that we were there.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then I just think, yeah, by the end of the day, it's like everyone's [SPEAKER_00]: bedtime for me, we'll see it tomorrow right in early.

[SPEAKER_00]: But no, we all got extremely close.

[SPEAKER_00]: It felt like sort of [SPEAKER_00]: You know, almost in the same way that you had bond with like a theater sort of cast in a rehearsal process just because you're spending so much time together and you know, people, I was beat for myself like walk away from a scene being like, oh fuck, I wish I did something different and your friends come and they're like, oh, that was great.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like you did such a good job, you know, like moments like that that are just like you need when you're.

[SPEAKER_02]: That really takes me back to like doing musicals in high school and you've been so bold remember like opening night your fans are full before.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, you're opening night.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's the most important day you're doing what legally long opening night.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm doing like cherry orchard as a 16 year old having no business doing girl.

[SPEAKER_02]: I wish my school.

[SPEAKER_02]: Although my school did shout out to [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to have to ask you, did you do any musicals in high school?

[SPEAKER_02]: What was an experience for the rap?

[SPEAKER_02]: Wait, don't tell me what you did.

[SPEAKER_02]: You absolutely did.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now, I did hair spray and I was corny Collins.

[SPEAKER_02]: Corny Collins with the latest, greatest.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.

[SPEAKER_02]: Hot.

[SPEAKER_02]: Of course, you were corny Collins with a loop.

[SPEAKER_02]: Do you do?

[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_00]: I had a little silver suit on and everything.

[SPEAKER_02]: Wait, your high school did hair spray.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's gaggy.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it was actually kind of this like really, it was sort of a planets-aligning situation where it was my senior year, I think, and I think the drama department was like, they knew all the kids that were in the choir program and like the kids who were seniors that year, and they were like, wait, I think we could actually do herspray this year.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it was like the cast, I'm sorry, like it was such a good production.

[SPEAKER_02]: Hi, believe.

[SPEAKER_02]: I believe.

[SPEAKER_02]: How was your Tracy Turnblad?

[SPEAKER_02]: incredible and credible shout her out.

[SPEAKER_02]: We sell her out shout out Tracy.

[SPEAKER_00]: Molly Chapman.

[SPEAKER_02]: She really killed it shout out Molly Chapman.

[SPEAKER_02]: You fucking beat and that was said as a compliment.

[SPEAKER_02]: We love [SPEAKER_02]: a little musical theater throwback of another throwback I would like to go into is your Instagram is just beautifully done and I'm loving watching your follower count jump because you deserve one of your infamous IG dumps you posted a photo of miles and fellow cast member [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and I want to thank you so much for bringing visibility to the jockstrap world and to jockstrap's make you soaking wet or read just sort of capturing it in a certain moment.

[SPEAKER_00]: I do like a jockstrap.

[SPEAKER_00]: I sort of have phases with undergarments, if you will, where I will.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I feel like [SPEAKER_00]: I had a big, loving job, jockstraps phase, and now I'm kind of like, now I'm, I hate to say, like, kind of loving a boxer moment again.

[SPEAKER_00]: No, I think I'm sorry.

[SPEAKER_00]: I have a comment.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I think a few, a couple years ago, I would have been mad at you.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but saying I would have been mad on myself.

[SPEAKER_00]: I know.

[SPEAKER_02]: But I'm married to a man who loves a boxer, and I have, you know, I have to support my husband.

[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, why do you think boxes are coming back?

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm really curious.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'll say two things for me.

[SPEAKER_00]: What I like about the boxer is that I have two roommates.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I like that the boxer can be like a lounging around the apartment and not feel like crazy.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like if I were watching Netflix in the living room in a jock strap, like that'd be kind of crazy.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I can do it in boxers and that's fine.

[SPEAKER_00]: But that's true.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's true.

[SPEAKER_02]: Are yours like how long are you worried about ball spillage?

[SPEAKER_00]: I would say they're pretty tight around the thigh, so I think I'll save in that regard.

[SPEAKER_02]: Right, because you actually have muscles and you have a strong day.

[SPEAKER_02]: I forgot.

[SPEAKER_00]: I have, I have big old legs and thighs and everything.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Do you find that you?

[SPEAKER_00]: It's very, very.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, no, never apologize.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's my biggest message on this podcast.

[SPEAKER_02]: You're not apologize for your fucking skull crushing thighs.

[SPEAKER_02]: Do you ever want some videos on TikTok of like the people's crushing watermelons with their thighs?

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm kind of into the, like, I feel like I've seen videos of these, like, giant bodybuilding women doing stuff like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: And as, as, like, a watcher of anime, there's something about seeing these, like, giant bodybuilding women that evokes, like, a [SPEAKER_00]: an anime type of thing for me, which I just, I appreciate that as a, as a viewer, I don't know.

[SPEAKER_02]: That you look strong women, bodybuilding character or otherwise, what about in the show, Cameron character, of course, play by miles, in lists, into the Marines with his straight best friend, do you have any straight men in your life, or do you just keep it to the [SPEAKER_00]: So I will say my older brother is one of my best friends in the entire world.

[SPEAKER_00]: He is also a sober king.

[SPEAKER_00]: Him and I accidentally have the same sober day, 10 years apart.

[SPEAKER_00]: Isn't that crazy?

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's so insane.

[SPEAKER_02]: Anyways, so there's now it's just like a universe like it just happened that way.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, yes, really insane Some heart on the same fucking day is your brother in the entertainment business as well or see a civilian [SPEAKER_00]: No, he's a civilian.

[SPEAKER_00]: He works like helping people get sober and he helped me get sober 10 years later after he was a raging drug addict, then I was and then he helped me get sober.

[SPEAKER_00]: Isn't that amazing?

[SPEAKER_02]: It's like, it makes me emotional, I think it's probably because I'm like, you know, partly deeply tired, but also just like deeply touched by straight gay brother relationships and so we're element there's such a depth to that is your brother, how much older is your brother than you know.

[SPEAKER_02]: So like, you know, nothing, so it's a matter of matters, but like that's, um, so beautiful.

[SPEAKER_02]: But I want to dive into the sort of gay element of having a straight brother was, was he just also a liberal king because he similarly grew up in a forward thinking place.

[SPEAKER_02]: What was it like?

[SPEAKER_00]: Coming out to him and didn't your relationship change and grow when it comes to that yeah, so we like growing up in LA I just feel like I was so lucky.

[SPEAKER_00]: I almost think at a certain point it was like uncool if you were home of a phobic, you know, like it would just be like why you know, didn't make sense.

[SPEAKER_02]: But let's let's like make that spread around the country So you're so uncool to be a dick.

[SPEAKER_02]: I like really want that to prevail [SPEAKER_00]: And we had these really cool lesbian surfer ants in San Diego.

[SPEAKER_00]: So like, I knew he was obsessed with that.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I knew it was gonna be fine, but he was actually the last person that I told because I told my friends in high school and then I told my mom.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then the way that he found out actually was because for whatever the hell reason, all of our Apple devices were like linked to the same Apple ID and downloaded grinder on like, [SPEAKER_00]: my phone and it downloaded to our mom's iPad and he's, and I remember I was at the dentist and I get a text from my brother and he goes, like, I could cry just thinking about it.

[SPEAKER_00]: I get a text from my brother who's assuming that my mom doesn't know that I'm gay and he goes, [SPEAKER_00]: I love you.

[SPEAKER_00]: You don't have to worry.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, and I was like, oh, you're I kind of mom actually already knows, but thank you so much.

[SPEAKER_00]: I love you.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, but he like took that.

[SPEAKER_00]: He was like trying to protect me in that moment, you know, and it was just kind of the perfect day.

[SPEAKER_00]: Connor Connor.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: whenever we get a chance to shout out the good ones.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he's a good one.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's a good one.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's a good one.

[SPEAKER_02]: Connor.

[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you, Connor for reminding us that not all straight men are homophobic or no.

[SPEAKER_00]: To that point too, like this shooting the show was my first time since [SPEAKER_00]: like high school since I'd been around so many straight guys like all day every day.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that was a like honestly it was a really cool experience because I feel like when you're used to spending time pretty much exclusively with queer people it's easy to just be like illustrate people suck.

[SPEAKER_00]: But are you calling me out?

[SPEAKER_02]: No, but you're very spot on.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think that I think you're spot on because I think that Not to interrupt you, but like I need to really look within here because I moved to LA four years ago from New York I have a lot of straight friends in New York who are my family who I would take a bowl of four who I love to the ends of the earth [SPEAKER_02]: But when I moved to LA, I mostly created a community of gay people, and with this podcast and with just my work and my life It's been very very very gay in ways I love however when I do come across a straight man And he's really sweet.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, oh my I let it literally happen a few days ago My dear friends, Aknoi Towers a genius comedian.

[SPEAKER_02]: He had a party a couple of like really cute guys were there and I Was talking and I was like wait you guys are gay, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: And they're like no we're straight and I was like [SPEAKER_02]: So first of all second of all they ended up I did a part of the reason why I'm so tired And I've always sounds like I've been smoking six as I did a show last night that was like Lovely crazy night, but these straight guys came to see my very gay solo show they like Are the sweetest most amazing guys and I think that I need to um [SPEAKER_02]: do what you do, which is get cast in a hit Netflix show, but also be around the good straight guys to sort of re invigorate my hope.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, here's the thing, like I think because I had a very similar thing where [SPEAKER_00]: after I graduated from NYU, I feel like it was really important to me to carve out like a super, super gay and queer circle of friends.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think like that's a beautiful and normal thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's it's like very important for [SPEAKER_00]: for gay men to have like a lot of queer friends certainly.

[SPEAKER_00]: But also, yeah, it's, I feel like I'm reaching that point in my life where I know that's all there.

[SPEAKER_00]: I love that part of my life and it's sort of, it's nice to, it's just nice to be reminded that like, [SPEAKER_00]: You know, people contain multitudes, and these men can be like nice and supportive and to give people the opportunity to be cool and supportive.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, that's completely, that's really, really well said.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I think if we zoom out even further, I think it's in a way we're giving ourselves a gift of cultivating a queer community.

[SPEAKER_02]: But then when we connect with the straight men specifically, we're in a way like helping make the world.

[SPEAKER_02]: A more balanced place because we're like letting it be a two-sided thing of like we're not going to isolate but we're going to actually engage with maybe group of people that used to torture us as kids but I'll give them a chance to.

[SPEAKER_02]: add to our lives in really positive ways, much like your brother, much like your cast mates and boots.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I think it's a really sort of like simple, but spot on reminder that it is okay to take chances on people that we not normally will have thought to.

[SPEAKER_00]: Also, it's so important for, I feel like the biggest, [SPEAKER_00]: One of the most helpful things in sort of expanding your mind in regards to your relationship with people is to just [SPEAKER_00]: have people like to get to know people that you might not necessarily think too and I think it gives both people the opportunity to realize like you both want the same things you both want to have a good life hang out with your friends you don't want to be stressed like you you realize you know you realize the ways that you're not all that different from each other and I think that's helpful.

[SPEAKER_02]: And also, I think it heals, maybe some of our early wounds, if we just connect with people that again, like we wouldn't think to do any more, there is one asshole straight man that I do want to bring up, I think pentagon press secretary Kingsley Wilson, the pentagon has reacted to boots.

[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like when I saw that, I just so did not care because I feel like the Pentagon does not speak for the people in the United States or the world like the people do and it's been so beautiful to to just see people's [SPEAKER_00]: responses to the show and how it moves them and the questions it provokes.

[SPEAKER_00]: And some of them are challenging questions, but I honestly haven't even cared about the whole Pentagon thing, because I just I see all these people having the most beautiful personal connection to the show, even everything you said.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so really like, I could care less, but I mean, it's just so random [SPEAKER_00]: comment on a Netflix show like I'm kind of obsessed with that as a phenomenon, you know, it's like, oh, you're so obsessed with it's just like, what like, what like what why?

[SPEAKER_02]: Honestly, I think if you were a smart man, you would actually encourage people to watch boots because in a way, it really places the idea of Brotherhood and patriotism and hard work and coming together, but instead they're just loving the idea of [SPEAKER_02]: making queer people the enemy, even if he says he says in his statement, it's like, it doesn't matter if you're a guy or a girl or a guy or a straight, but it's like, well, actually, that if you really mean that, then maybe you would be championing a show that is allowing us to celebrate that we are humans who contain those multitudes.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no, our showrunner Andy Parker has said it so beautifully and in a couple interviews and I've been with him when he said it, but it's basically, you know, the so much of what the show does is like, [SPEAKER_00]: It asks the viewer to expand their idea of who's allowed to be an American.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I feel like with a lot of people have a very rigid and narrow-minded perception of what that means.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think the more that you're able to expand that definition, [SPEAKER_00]: the more beautiful that is.

[SPEAKER_02]: And much like you said that when you were growing up being a homophobic was considered not cool.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think we should consider it not cool to think that the only people who can be Americans are the straight white people who you know.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: only speak English and they're, you know, only a one certain way.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's like, yeah, fucking whole reason why this country is this country is because of all the fucking different people that came here.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that it's really, really well said, since we only have a couple minutes left, I want to make sure to do some hard hitting gas journalist questions.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: I've come through more of your Instagram to find photos of you in a pop mask and come, yes.

[SPEAKER_02]: Are you living the pop life?

[SPEAKER_02]: Are you a good boy?

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm a very good boy.

[SPEAKER_00]: I would say it's a part of my nature, it's a part of my personality.

[SPEAKER_00]: I also feel like weirdly like, canke stuff.

[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like I'm sort of of the school of thought that the more expanded your life experiences are, like the better actor you can be.

[SPEAKER_00]: Kink is like a an exercise and expanding your imagination in a lot of ways and yeah I also just I think it's really fun and cool and I've had people be like, are you going to take those pictures down and I was like why I think it's cool like I'm Yeah, let your freak flag fly English.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm so glad that you do [SPEAKER_00]: Also people this this is sort of my maybe this is just what I tell myself so I can sleep at night I don't think in today's day and age people are as interested in working with a cookie cutter presentation of an actor of what an actor thinks they're supposed to act like or be like on social media I think people want to work with people they think are interesting and have their own unique things that they like and are into.

[SPEAKER_02]: And so it's a view in their own confidence to say how they feel.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it's that's a hundred percent more interesting than just like I am a pretty person.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Did a Pepsi cup or something?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, which I'm lucky to get that, but yeah, we want the Pepsi check, but we also want the pop hood of course No, when I saw that like I haven't seen it yet, but that that movie with Alexander Skarsgard and oh Yeah, yeah, I was just like obsessed that this is like being [SPEAKER_00]: You know, people are loving it.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like people are so here for the, listen, at the end of the day, we're all free to deep down and we just go about different ways of expressing that and whether it's with a pop hood or a secret vibrator and your boy, put see that someone's rolling from how did you know.

[SPEAKER_02]: Is your boyfriend Chris a pop as well?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I feel like, you know, I feel like we're both sort of casual of pubs, I would say.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, no, I love that.

[SPEAKER_02]: I love that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: By the way, you guys are such a hot couple and I want to make sure that that is said.

[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.

[SPEAKER_02]: Before my final question, how did you increase me, you guys have been together enough for a few years?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: What's, what's the date?

[SPEAKER_00]: She we met I feel like a lot of the I didn't really know this until I met him, but a lot of the gays who live in Philadelphia That's where he lives come to New York to sort of like go out and go to parties or whatever And we met because he was here going to a party and I think it was like scrub for something or the scruff to Instagram pipeline and then I was like [SPEAKER_00]: Do you want to hang out, et cetera, et cetera?

[SPEAKER_02]: The rest is her street.

[SPEAKER_02]: Are you currently living in New York?

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: You are okay, shout out.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I have to say, Angus, this has been a treat.

[SPEAKER_02]: I knew it would be amazing to talk to you about boots.

[SPEAKER_02]: I show that really has sort of now lived in my brain in these horny, meaningful ways.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, you're so amazing to open about all these other parts of your life, and you're exactly what this gay ass podcast stands for, and I just want to thank you for coming here being so open, so funny, so sexy, so kind.

[SPEAKER_02]: We're shouting at the straight man.

[SPEAKER_02]: We're shouting at your brother.

[SPEAKER_02]: We're shouting at your mom.

[SPEAKER_02]: We're shouting out the show.

[SPEAKER_02]: But besides that, will you shout out your Instagram account?

[SPEAKER_02]: Let us know where to follow this beautiful dumps and anything else you would like for us to know.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, my Instagram is just my first and last name, I guess I'll bring an underscore, um, that's really, that's really it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Nothing, nothing much beyond that.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm off Twitter.

[SPEAKER_00]: Thank God.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm just living my best life.

[SPEAKER_02]: And you deserve everybody, go follow Angus, go watch boots.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm very grateful to you, to my dear friends at Netflix and at Sony.

[SPEAKER_02]: I want to shout out my friend Nick who also helped make this happen, Rowan, and just you Angus O'Brien, keep on fighting the good fight.

[SPEAKER_02]: And one day, I will see you pop mask on at a Raven in New York City.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, exactly.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, thank you so much for having me.

[SPEAKER_00]: This was so fun.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's just, I obviously am obsessed.

[SPEAKER_00]: I love talking with you, talking with a fellow gay.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm so glad we got you to do this.

[SPEAKER_02]: Same, co-violets.

[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you so much for joining me on that's a gay ass podcast and thank you to Angus for being truly a gag of a gas just so hot so funny so open Please go to Substack to watch the bonus episode this week where I talk about the inside out dad costume cancellation and other [SPEAKER_02]: Horny Salatius Tales at a substact.com slash at Eric Will's linked in the description.

[SPEAKER_02]: And thank you all for all the sweet messages.

[SPEAKER_02]: I know that I had a lot of trolling.

[SPEAKER_02]: Lot of trolling, but a lot of really, really kind of flirting messages from you all.

[SPEAKER_02]: And it really made me not end it all.

[SPEAKER_02]: I love you so much.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'll see you next week.

[SPEAKER_02]: Stay gay!

[SPEAKER_02]: You've been listening to that's a gay-ass podcast hosted by me, Eric Williams.

[SPEAKER_02]: If you want to see it here more, make sure you subscribe on Apple Podcasts Spotify, YouTube, and follow the Instagram at gay-ass podcast.

[SPEAKER_02]: For more gay-ass, hurry the real girlies are over on Sub-Stack where you get bonus episodes every single week and live chats with me and other gay-ass guests.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's a gay-ass podcast as executive produced by Eric Williams and produced by Nathaniel McClurr.

[SPEAKER_02]: We'll see you next week.