Hello and welcome to Fiction Fans, a podcast where we read books and other words too.

I'm Lily,

And I'm Sarah, and today we will be discussing starstruck by Amy Ogden.

but before we get into that conversation, we have our quick five minute intro starting with something great that happened recently.

So this is a little bit bittersweet, which I feel goes perfectly with this novel.

But I went to the, well, I went to one of Mr.

Squeaks vets yesterday to return some unopened allergy medication.

And they had said that they could take it back and they would give me a refund, but.

One of the meds, they said, we'll take it back and we'll donate it, which was fine.

And then I, I got there and they refunded all of it and I

Aw.

I was very touched.

And also in total it was a large sum of money, so I'm glad to have gotten it refunded, but when I got it, she was doing fine.

Yeah,

So good.

Sad, but also good.

that is really perfect for this book.

My good thing is that I got away with using an expired coupon at the grocery store today.

What a rebel.

I had like a thick stack of'em from this spring.

And apparently a bunch of them expired in April.

But I thought, you know, we'll see what happens.

And it worked.

I'm a criminal mastermind.

very exciting for you,

It was really exciting.

I had like rehearsed perfectly in my head, like, how graceful.

'cause I wasn't gonna be a jerk if it didn't work.

You know?

I just, I just wanted to try it just in case.

But I had the whole, my whole reaction rehearsed with like, oh, no, no, no worries.

It was fine.

Like, didn't have to use it.

Nice.

What are you drinking tonight?

I thought about making tea because it is actually quite gray and overcast here, but that was effort.

So I'm drinking wine instead.

It is gray and overcast here as well, except it's also 80 degrees.

It's not 80 degrees here.

I am swimming anyway, so I'm drinking pomegranate juice.

It's cold and nice.

I can see you put it to your face.

I'm snuggling the pomegranate juice.

We listeners, a peek behind the veil.

This is like our second recording in 48 hours or something like that.

Yeah, normally we have more time in between episode recordings, but not this week.

Have you read anything good lately?

No.

Okay.

Figured I'd ask,

I thought about doing reading and then I watched Gardner's World instead.

which is very appropriate for this book.

Okay, we're gonna stop dancing around it.

Now, the premise of this book is so whimsical, I think.

Did we get an email about it?

And we were like, how can we not?

Yes, yes.

This is, this is an advanced reader.

I mean, the book is out now.

But we did get an advanced copy of it and just thought that it sounded so whimsical.

A fox and a radish are living their best lesbian cottage core life.

And like, how, how does that not intrigue you?

I mean, it does is the answer.

Yeah.

I had, I had a lot of questions.

They were answered.

For the most, the questions I had going into the book were answered.

I saw your hesitation.

Yeah.

I mean, because I was, I was gonna say, I have questions about like how everything works still.

Those, I wouldn't necessarily say that they were answered, but it also doesn't matter that they weren't answered.

Like I, I didn't need everything to be answered.

No, me neither.

I felt content at the end.

Well, I felt.

Absolutely heartbroken at the end, but we'll get into that,

Yes, it was, it was a really good story.

Still heartbroken at the end.

So this is a world where falling stars land on things and bring them to life.

Turn them into like werewolves, but not, you know,

I mean, they, they turned them into,

humanoid

Hu Humanoid versions of themselves.

Sentient humanoid versions of themselves.

Our main character pri is living with her wife, sing partner.

Yeah.

I don't know if they're like, I mean married, but they're definitely life partners.

I mean they, they have grown old together.

They are in like at least middle age, I'd say.

yeah, they're in a very established relationship.

They've been in a relationship for a long number of years.

And all of this is sort of just to paint a picture because then you actually get into the content of this book and it is quite upsetting, not in like a grim, dark horror kind of way, in a very like emotional, quiet, personal kind of way.

Yeah, so PR, who is a radish and her wife sing or partner

I think I said

Yes, yes.

Sing is a fox.

The only case where they could possibly not be wives is if the institution of marriage does not exist in this fantasy world.

Or if they haven't, they, they just haven't legally gotten married because they, they live out in the wilderness.

Not relevant.

Not relevant, but they're, they're basically wives.

and they have this cute little cottage and, you know, PR grows vegetables and they're, they're very happy.

Except that for the last 18 months, I believe it was, they haven't seen any stars.

Create new starstruck, you know, create these new sentient beings.

And that is a really big, I wanna say bummer, which

It kind of trivializes it.

yeah, that kind of trivializes it, but it, it makes all sing upset and depressed.

And her depression, I think, gets to a point where she doesn't wanna stay there anymore.

So she and pri decide, well, she decides, and PR goes along with, leaving their cottage to, to move elsewhere, and that's kind of where the story starts.

It also introduces what I would call.

The main conflict of the plot.

I mean, there's, there's external stuff going on too, but this sort of resentment that Prish has, that sing has decided she wants to move.

And Prish doesn't.

She wants to stay at home.

And they don't really handle it well.

Prish kind of gets on a whole martyr thing, which was infuriating for me.

They, they don't talk about it at all.

Prish just is mad.

Yeah.

And on the one hand I understood where push is coming from because I get it.

It's, you know, if you have a partner who really feels very strongly about something, it's hard to tell them that you feel exactly the opposite.

But also you are in a partnership.

You, you do have to, you know, communicate.

That's part of what being in a relationship is all about.

I too sometimes wanted to shake, push, and go sing.

Doesn't know you're mad at her because you haven't said that you don't wanna move.

You haven't.

You haven't made any indication whatsoever that you are unhappy and she can't read your mind.

She is not a mind reader.

So the tension between them grows.

'cause you know, sing can tell something is wrong and, you know, PR is kind of, kind of shitty.

Not in like a really aggressive way, but just like a, she has no patience for anything.

PRI pri is trying to hide her resentment.

NN not always doing it very well.

No.

And so then sing has no patience for PR and all of this is not a great, you know.

Road trip vibe, if you will.

And then they meet some other characters and that kind of concludes, well, I did just barrel on past the, the two additional characters, but that is to say we have a very small cast of characters in this book.

It, it feels extremely intimate in every way.

Yeah.

It is very, I'd say it's a very personal story.

Like obviously there is this larger problem of what's going on with the lack of starstruck, but.

And the, the novel or novella does deal with it, but that's not what the novella is about.

It it's a very tightly focused story.

And I mean, there is no wasted space and we've already, you, yeah, you just called it a novella.

It's very short.

Yeah.

I don't know what the word count is, but it's.

94 pages.

Apparently, if you have a physical copy.

The, one of the interesting experiences of reading eBooks instead of physical books is you don't necessarily know how far through the story you are.

So, after my first session of reading it.

I put it down and when I picked it back up, I was like, oh, no.

What do you mean I'm halfway through?

On the other hand, like, I don't feel that this story needed to be any longer, you know, like it, it's a good size.

It doesn't, it doesn't feel like it's sacrificing anything in the length.

No, and, and like you said earlier, the unanswered questions feel intentional.

Yeah.

I mean, these are just regular people.

Why would they have figured out the secrets of the universe?

Yeah, I, I think that Ogden is being very intentional with everything that is done in this book.

So as our main characters are traveling, they first meet Otra.

Do they meet?

Yeah, they meet Otra

I, I mean, it's kind of at the same time.

It is?

Okay.

She is a starstruck.

Suddenly, after all of this time, there's a new starstruck and it's a stone that gets turned into a person, which has completely unheard of.

And Otra is, I'm gonna say it, a piece of work.

RA is incredibly self-absorbed.

I did find her very hard to read about.

It she is.

Whimsy to the max, which turns out sucks to be around.

I so much of this book feels like it introduces like this concept of like silly, lighthearted fun.

Oh no.

But actually though, in a, in like both, just the major premise of the book and also in like characters like Otra and things like that.

Yeah, I, it feels like it takes the concept and then goes, but what if.

Mm-hmm.

No, but actually,

Yeah.

No, but actually,

Especially in the other character Wick, his name is Wick.

Right.

yes, I believe so.

and he's a, a kid push isn't sure exactly how old he is'cause he's human.

He's not a starstruck.

We think he's maybe about 13 or 14.

Somewhere in that range.

Not like little but also certainly not an adult.

And he is not running away from home.

Exactly.

His parents have left him, and so he's off on an adventure to his aunt's house or something to that effect, which feels like the start of every like fairytale, like, oh yeah, this.

Young kid is just gonna go off into the world and everything will be fine.

And he meets some talking animals and goes on adventures.

He definitely is the protagonist of a YA novel.

yes, but turns out being abandoned at 13, not a fun experience.

Kind of sucks.

Yeah.

So you have this damaged kid, kid, I should say, not damaged.

That was mean.

You know what I mean?

We have Otra who could not give less of a shit about the people around her.

In her defense, she is also very young.

We don't, I mean, we don't know how long it takes starstruck to kind of gain that emotional maturity.

And she talks later on about.

How she is struggling with this concept of being three days old, but also being ancient because she does kind of have some sense memories of being a stone, and that is kind of crazy to reconcile.

Yeah, so I, I found her very frustrating.

But I also kind of got it.

I.

Was actually quite charmed by her.

She like would draw a face on herself, like, that's really funny and very sweet.

Sure she did sweet things, but she also like insisted on taking Wicks gloves that were his mother's because he wasn't using them and not in a cute way.

No.

I think what bothered me the most was actually how all sing.

Got on Trisha's case for not being charmed by Otra.

Like Alling refused to acknowledge how frustrating Otra was.

Yeah.

I mean, I, I feel like this again comes down to the fact that Sing and, and Prish just really needed better communication skills.

They were going through some stuff and it got externalized around the, the people that they met.

Yeah.

But so they, they meet these two sort of lost souls and well Otra gets swept up with them because that's, that's just what you do when there's a new starstruck.

The other starstruck like help them acclimate.

It seemed very cool, very sweet.

Yeah, very community oriented, which was nice.

And then of course all sing is sort of the, the mother hen, if you excuse the joke.

And when she finds out that WIC is traveling alone, she's like, absolutely not.

We are going to go with you to your whatever relative's house.

Yeah, all Sing is definitely the, like the people person.

And Prish is the one who's happy by herself or in, in very limited company.

Mostly just all sing.

Yeah.

And, and so her hackles were raised because she is in this very like, stressful relationship situation with sing and then meeting these other, I'm gonna say characters, not as in characters in a book, but like what a character.

Neither of them were on their best behavior and Prish had no patience for it and Sing, had no patience for that.

And it's a very tense book.

Yes.

Yeah, there's, there's a lot of relationship drama, or not relationship drama necessarily, but like interpersonal conflict.

Yeah.

the heart of this book,

and people snapping at each other and then feeling bad, but not really feeling like.

Comfortable enough to apologize.

And so just simmering and it's, oh, it's uncomfortable.

Yeah.

Good.

I mean like intentional.

Very good.

Oh, yeah.

Incredible.

Especially when you consider it's a radish and just taking these like very silly, outlandish concepts, but making it so human at its core.

Yeah, it, I mean, it really was incredible.

Just the, the characterization and all was phenomenal.

And they run into some other people on the way, but those are the four characters that this book really follows.

They are definitely the main characters.

I would, at one point they stop in a city.

And there's an innkeeper who is just so nice and I wanna shout out that innkeeper because like they, when they get there, they don't necessarily have a lot of money, but the innkeeper offers them so much food.

It completely is fine with.

Accidentally, like breaking a teacup in shock just seems like a really nice person.

And I was prepared for there to be more money, stress in the city section because PRI had talked about how they didn't have a ton of money and that actually was not a source of tension at all or conflict at all.

I mean in, it's a topic that they do end up snapping at each other over because RA asks for something out of the budget and Prish says no, and Sing is mad about that, even though she also agrees at the same time, which just goes to show she's not actually mad about how snappy Prish is being right.

Yeah.

Wendle Heim.

Was

was the name of the city.

No, the city.

the city.

I was, it took way too long.

It's not funny anymore, but I was gonna say, shout out to the wilted flower.

Anyone passing through?

Wendell Heim.

Check it out.

Five stars.

This episode sponsored by.

the Drowsy Marigold.

It took me like half an hour to find it, and so the, the joke has passed, but I made it anyway.

Completely unrelated.

I know that I have some bothers gate three brain rot because the city that PRI and sing are originally going to was al um, I believe.

And I did keep wanting to read that as Terrell.

Is that the name of

It is.

Yes.

So who should read this book if you're looking for a punch in the gut?

Yeah.

If you want a whimsical.

Bittersweet novella about the human experience.

I think this is a great book for you.

And there's also some really gorgeous descriptions of like home life and gardening.

And this is not a cozy book because it is so stressful,

It,

but there's a lot of cozy trappings.

yeah, it's not a cozy book, but it's a soft book I think.

Yeah, that feels right.

And it just, it's, it's really beautifully written too.

This episode of Fiction Fans is brought to you by fiction fans.

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Patrons can find weekly bonus content, monthly exclusive episodes, and have free access to our biannual zine sotia.

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Thank you for all of your support.

The remainder of this episode contains spoilers.

So the big twist at the end.

Is that Wick's parents disappeared or left him disappeared, whatever, because they were stealing, falling stars.

They could, like, they invented a machine to steal the falling stars so that they could have the power instead of them making a starstruck, and then they consumed that power somehow and became something else.

Yes.

I mean, it was, it was pretty clear.

I think there were hints early on that W's parents have something to do with the disappearance of the star starstruck.

Like, that was, that was not, I wouldn't necessarily call it a, a twist or a reveal, but, but that was the of the climaxes that, that's confirmed.

And then we also find out that it's not just falling stars that their machine can take, but it's also the humanity out of an existing living starstruck,

Yes,

which is horrifying.

it's, and that there's not a lot of time spent on that aspect of it necessarily.

It just kind of gets wrapped in with.

All of the, the other bits of the climax, but W's parents were pretty clearly terrible.

Yeah, it's that that passage.

'cause we kind of get like.

It's not exactly Wick's perspective, but it's the close third person switches to Wick while our other main characters are marbled,

Yes.

While their, while their souls have been taken out of their bodies.

Yeah.

And so like, Otra turns back into a rock, pri turns back into a radish and all sing turns into a fox and runs away.

Yeah.

And it's just, such a terribly bittersweet ending.

Because WIC grapples with.

Well, my parents loved me after all.

Like they, they wanted me to use this machine and follow them, but I've gotten to know these starstruck and care for them, and I don't actually think that it's a a good thing to, to steal their souls.

Hot take.

Yeah.

Hot, hot take from the 13-year-old.

But at the same time, he can't put all things' soul back in because A, the foxes run off, but also there's a cracked marble.

Like something happens in that process because it's kind of a, not inherently, I mean, I guess one could argue that stealing someone's soul is inherently violent, but the, the way that it happens is also kind of.

A little violent.

They're fighting over the machine and it accidentally goes off.

I think,

Yes, yes.

that whole, that whole section is not super precise with what's going on.

It's not, which I'm okay with.

Like this is not a novel where, or a novella where I needed everything to be super explicit, to be honest.

No, we were running on vibes and it was great.

Yeah.

It was terrible, but it was great.

Yeah.

Like there is, there is enough there enough substance that it, it can be backed up by vibes

Yeah.

The world building is vibes well, and like I said, okay, maybe Wix parents figured it out, but there's no reason why these completely normal people would understand like the science behind this.

So I'm okay with us not understanding it.

Yeah, exactly.

And Prish basically says that herself, like, yeah, I don't, I don't get the science.

That's not the kind of thing that me as a radish I do.

Yeah, but me as a gardener, I should, I would say, because a radish could be a scientist in this world.

It's That's true.

That's

just not.

That's true.

Alright.

I might be a monster, but the really, really sad ending of PRIs having to watch her wife like.

Be a fox and not know her anymore.

made me way more okay with their deteriorating relationship.

Not in an, I think they deserved it way, but like, I don't know.

It, it changed the focus of the emotional conflict.

I get what you're saying.

I'm not sure that I entirely agree with it, but I do think because they do eventually have.

An argument where Prish lets out all of this unspoken resentment and all things like, what the fuck?

I'm not a mind reader.

Although push brings up, and I think she did have, I mean, she didn't have a lot of.

Legs to stand on, but she didn't have a point where Sing didn't even ask.

yeah, I mean, Prish Prish does have a point there.

I think that.

She should have talked about her feelings to all sing sooner, even if All Sing hadn't brought it up, but she's right.

All Sing hadn't asked.

and the fact that they have that discussion finally, or disagreement or argument meant that I felt better about.

The lack of communication leading up to it because there was a payoff.

And then the fact that they weren't able to work it out because almost immediately afterwards everything goes down with W'S parents' machine and sing turns back into a regular Fox just made it feel really, really bittersweet

Yeah.

I think they would have.

Eventually worked it out if they had been able to continue that conversation.

It seems like they were like growing

Yeah.

and, and learning in their relationship.

It's interesting, right?

'cause like on one hand I'm thinking, did they just never struggle and maybe they didn't.

'cause relationships are easy when there's no stress and.

Yeah, I mean maybe, maybe their situation in their previous cottage was such that they had a pretty good life.

They didn't experience a lot of unhappiness.

It doesn't sound like this is a world in which there is a stress and bad stuff happening, to be perfectly honest.

Yeah.

Because part of me is like, how are you grown ass adults who have been together for decades and not figured this out yet?

You know what I mean?

But also because the ending is so sad, it just makes me feel sad for Prish, and I'll sing of course, but Prish is the main character instead of mad at her

Yes.

because I spent this book so mad at her, like.

She has this whole martyr thing going where poor put upon pri.

She is just gonna do these things for all sing and no one appreciates her.

And it's like not actually doing a nice thing if you resent them for doing it.

That that's not how favors work.

Yeah.

So, I was extremely annoyed with her, but then.

It was just so sad.

I was like, oh, hey, I am not annoyed with you anymore.

I mean, and it, it does kind of like, I don't know.

For me, it's, it's very much, life doesn't go the way that you think it will, and you can't do anything about it.

Well, yes, and if they had known those were their last days together, they probably would've gotten their shit together.

Yeah.

But how do you know that?

yeah, like, you can speculate all you want, but ultimately you have to deal with the life that you've lived.

It.

It's that saying, it reminds me of that saying never go to bed angry.

Yeah.

Which obviously doesn't mean never go to bed angry.

cause that's insane.

But it's talking about this, right?

Like you don't, you don't know what tomorrow is gonna be.

So like, deal with your shit.

Yeah.

I will say that this ending hit.

Me extra, extra hard because of losing Mr.

Squeak.

Not necessarily because Sing was a pet.

She wasn't, and she doesn't, she doesn't.

Well by then she kind of was.

And she doesn't really die.

Like the fox is still there.

But it just, that, that sense of loss that PR has was very relevant to me.

Well and Sing hasn't died, but the end is coming.

She has turned back into a fox, and I don't remember if it's explicitly stated, but I assumed that lifespans change for starstruck.

Yeah, I mean, I, I think it, it's maybe not explicit, but if PRI is a radish has been around for 20 years, I don't think radishes normally last that long

No.

Well, in my refrigerator maybe.

or foxes either to.

Honest.

Well, that's the thing, right?

Like as Sing has turned back, she is now suddenly at the very end of her lifespan, where before she wasn't.

And so Prish is.

Sort of putting food out for this fox that doesn't recognize her.

It truly is just an animal at this point, but her limp is getting worse every day.

Like it's Trisha seeing the end before it comes with this person who no longer recognizes her, no longer recognizes her, no longer behaves like herself.

I, I do think there are some parallels there with, you know, losing loved ones when they're at the ends of their lives.

Absolutely.

When they don't, you know, when they're not present anymore.

Yeah.

I mean it, this, this whole book has parallels in the human experience.

Squeak knew me until the end.

Like that's not something, that's not something that I was personally struggling with, but at least in this case.

But yeah, seeing that decline in someone is so hard.

Yeah.

And, and exactly.

It was the knowing that the end is coming,

yeah.

And having nothing that you can do about it.

Yeah.

So I was just sitting over there sobbing, like, oh, Mr.

Squeak.

Yeah.

All Sing pr,

Precious just stuck with Otra at the end.

although Otra does sound like she's matured a little bit.

Yes.

Even in the, the point of conflict around the machine, it seems like Otra kind of understands a little bit more about what's going on than she has let on because she stole the letter.

Right.

Which is so shitty.

Yeah.

O Otra Otra's.

So self-absorbed, but she, she does grow.

well, it's.

I dunno if self-absorbed is necessarily the right word.

She is unhindered because she sees what's going on around her.

I mean, I guess I, I guess I consider herself absorbed because she is so focused on her destiny and the great big thing that she is going to do for most of the book.

Yeah, self-important.

Maybe

Yeah.

I just, because like to me, I think self-absorbed implies that she doesn't notice the people around her.

She does notice them.

She just spends a lot of time ignoring that, I think.

She notices them.

She just doesn't care.

yeah, but she does, she does grow.

I mean, and the thing about this is that all of the characters in this grow, like it's a really short novella.

But.

I think that everyone, all of our four main characters are slightly different by the end of it because they have gone through personal growth and struggled with the events of the story

Absolutely, and there is a bit of a time.

Skip right after the conflict.

And then those kind of italic sections from Wix perspective, and then suddenly we are a little bit in the future, not a lot.

a couple of months later.

Yeah.

And so Otra is going from a four day old to a much older person in that, you know, regard.

Yeah.

Maybe, maybe not a, you know, year old, but every day counts when you're that young.

She's like quadrupled her life experience

Yes.

more than w doesn't stay with them.

He does go with his cousins.

Was he trying to get to his cousins the whole time?

I thought that the family member had changed, but maybe that's just me not paying attention.

No, I think that he was trying to get there the whole time.

so the same relatives that he was looking for are the ones that come to get him?

yeah.

Or the same like family of relatives, like group of, group of relatives.

They seemed nice.

yeah, they, they seemed nice.

They seemed like they cared about him quite a bit and Wick was sad to, leave PR and Otra like he, he wanted them to come with him, but Prish can't leave sing.

Yeah.

She said she'd visit,

yeah.

And I hope she does.

Yeah,

And you know, maybe in a couple of years when Sing is gone, she moves on.

that might be an optimistic timeline.

Well, yeah, actually,'cause Trisha's very much in her head about everything.

I don't know what that's like at all.

Overall, very good book.

Absolutely.

Well, not absolutely heartbreaking at the end because it is like optimistic Otra's doing well.

PR seems to have adapted even if she has lost her partner.

I mean, she says that she can, she thinks she can come to love the, you know, the, the new place that they're at.

And so I do think that she finds a resilience in her.

So it's not entirely sad.

It's just like a little devastating.

Just a tiny bit devastating.

yeah, it's, it's very devastating, but there is a little kernel of hope there.

Yeah.

And yeah, all of the characters seem to be like doing pretty well except for all Sing.

Yeah,

like gonna get eaten by a predator tomorrow?

maybe, maybe, you know, she'll become a starstruck again.

We don't know

We don't know.

the, the stars are falling again.

Would it even be the same person though, if it's a different soul, that that's part of the world that's like not super clear

Yeah, I have no idea.

because.

but there's no, there's no guarantee that the two marbles that were taken out of, of Otra and pri went into the right bodies.

I thought there was, there was some line during Wix section where he's like, I don't know which marble is the damaged one, but I know which one I hope it is, and that makes me feel bad.

Which I thought kind of implied that it had to go into the right person to work, but maybe not.

Maybe that just means he chose Sing to not be the one to come back, which is a hard decision for a kid.

I don't think he, he chose any of it.

Sing just ran away, and so he couldn't get her do her.

I kind of got from that line, I kind of got the impression that he didn't want Otra to come back just because there had been tension between them to start with.

I thought, so too.

I just thought that.

By saying that he hoped the cracked one was a specific person, implied that it mattered which one was who.

Maybe, I mean, I, I think it is left kind of ambiguous and I'm okay with

Yeah.

This is exactly the kind of thing that the book was like we are not getting into, and that's okay.

yeah.

It's not, it's not something that detracts from my enjoyment of the story at all.

It's not something I need to know.

It's just, you know, little, little nuggets that I wonder about, which is fine.

But this is a book that lingers with you.

Absolutely.

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