[OPEN] music playing Nikole Collins-Puri 0:05 Our students, our youth are more out of school time than they're in school time. So how do we create spaces experiences, opportunities, relevancy, to show that STEM is not something that you just do in science and math, but STEM is something that is in your everyday life Nancy Scales-Coddington 0:31 Welcome to 'Empowering Change: Women and Girls in STEM' podcast Series hosted by the National Girls Collaborative Project. I'm your host Nancy Scales-Coddington, Director of Strategic Partnerships at NGCP. In this episode, we will explore the impact of K-12 education and out-of-school time and empowering girls in STEM. We will discuss practical strategies to create supportive learning environments, and nurture girls stem interests beyond the classroom. Our guests are Nicole Collins Puri, CEO of Techbridge Girls, welcome Nicole. Nikole Collins-Puri 1:07 Hi, Nancy. Welcome everybody. Nancy Scales-Coddington 1:09 And Dr. Roxanne Hughes, Director of the Center for Integrating Research and Learning at the National High Magnetic Field Laboratory. Welcome, Roxanne. Roxanne Hughes 1:19 Thanks, Nancy. It's great to be here today. Nancy Scales-Coddington 1:21 Nicole, can you share a bit about yourself and the work of Techbridge Girls? Nikole Collins-Puri 1:26 Well, thank you so much, Nancy, for having me here today with you all. I'm so excited to talk about getting more girls into this pathway called STEM. For over 20 years Techbridge Girls have been re engineering STEM education. So it's better engaging and supportive for girls of color across the country. And we do it really in two ways. We provide high quality STEM education in the after school programming. And we also train other out of school time educators, traditional teachers or youth workers on how to deliver equitable STEM education. Nancy Scales-Coddington 2:07 That is really exciting, glad to have you here with us today, Nicole. Roxanne, you've been researching the impacts of STEM in out of school time for many years, I know that we've also worked on projects in the past. Can you share a bit about your research? And what inspired you towards this? Roxanne Hughes 2:26 Sure. What inspired me, I'll start with the inspiration for it. Because I kind of fell into this passion. When I was a high school science teacher, I would see girls in my classes who are excelling, like, you know, getting 100 on the midterm, and then when I would say, are you going to major in a science like when you go to college, they'd be like, No, I'm not good at science. And it was incredibly shocking to me, I was like, I don't understand this is there's a disconnect. There's clearly the skills, the competence, all of this. And they just didn't see themselves as being able to succeed and belonging. And I just thought was something that I was really interested in. And when I was looking for PhD programs, I was focused on education. And then like, within the first year, I realized, Oh, I am really passionate about getting more girls and women in STEM. And this is these are fields that don't have fifty-fifty representation of women in STEM. So that's what my dissertation and now my work since then, has been about. And so it's really this concept of helping girls to see their potential, and just the value of being able to see yourself in these positions in these careers, so that you will work towards those careers. And that research. My research focuses on STEM identity. So sense of belonging and seeing oneself in STEM or being able to do STEM work. And I've focused on both the middle school age, but I've followed girls all the way into their careers as women so I kind of span like all developmental stages of careers in in STEM. So it's sometimes heartbreaking to see what happens when folks leave. But the work that I do in out of school settings, is really really amazing and hopeful. Nancy Scales-Coddington 4:28 Roxanne, what are some of the key challenges that girls face in their K 12 education when it comes to pursuing STEM subjects? And how can these barriers be overcome? Roxanne Hughes 4:39 So I would say the biggest issue is stereotypes and our own implicit and explicit biases. It's really hard to remove social and cultural issues from classrooms and families. I find myself often correcting my parents as they talk to my niece and nephew about gendered toy activities. So, it's questioning those aspects. But the stereotypes translate into classrooms as to who is and I'm doing air quotes here who's naturally good and quotes at science and math. Who gets to tinker with those activities. There's research that has studied even lab groups at the elementary, middle school level. And when you've got science lab groups, the girls end up being note takers, and they don't get the experience of tinkering with the activities playing with the materials. So there's this fear that continues. And you see this with even college students when they get into college for computer science, or programming, or physics or engineering, they've not had an opportunity to tinker. And they see the men around them that have had that. And those stereotypes are early as to who has access and who is encouraged to continue in those pursuits. So I would say that those are the the key challenges, and it just affects how teachers treat students, whether they knowingly do it or not, and how students treat each other. And then how each of us internalizes that even like signing up for activities or feeling like you belong in a space that's doing maybe the robotics club. So all of that affects how we engage and how folks engage with us in the STEM settings. Nancy Scales-Coddington 6:22 Oh, the old note taker job, right? That is so so persistent. We see that so often. And you know, everyone can take notes. It's not just the the girls, the ladies, the young women. Absolutely. And I really liked what you were saying about that sense of belonging, right, building that stem identity and how critically important that is. Nicole, your work with Techbridge Girls is really focused on offering STEM opportunities for girls. What are the benefits of out of school programs in fostering girls interest and participation in STEM? Nikole Collins-Puri 6:54 I think out-of-school time is an essential partner with the in-school experience. And often because of the root of its history. It's the daycare, right? And that essence have continued to perpetuate that narrative that doesn't really see out of school time really filling the gap of what in school time can't do. The reality is that our students, our youth, are more out of l time than they're in school time. So how do we create spaces, experiences, opportunities, relevancy, to show that STEM is not something that you just do in science and math, but STEM is something that is in your everyday life. And so for us that out of school time, especially for the population of girls that we serve, we are intentionally and explicitly serving girls of color who live in marginalized communities, low resourced, low income, Title One classified high poverty. So they're not getting in general, the math and science rigor at the level and expansiveness as their colleagues that are in a well resourced environment. And so actually, our school time is critical catalyst for our girls to get them inspired, engage, connected, and see themselves in a positive identity around STEM opportunities in a STEM future. So for us out of school time is most critical. And we need to kind of shift the narrative that it's more than just daycare, but it really is a gap filler of where the in school or traditional school space can't fill. Nancy Scales-Coddington 8:54 Well, it's really where you can really make those connections too, because in school, you're learning those basics. But you're not necessarily applying them. So you have that great opportunity to apply that knowledge. Can you share some success stories or examples of girls who have benefited from your programs? Nikole Collins-Puri 9:11 I mean, for us, I mean, we've been around for a long time. So we have a lot of stories, but I will say the most proud story that I can talk about because where I was here in the organization and part of that trajectory was our middle schooler Eileen I'Minguez. She started in a Techbridge Girl program in East Oakland, California. She really just came for the free pizza, and did not know that she was unlocking an opportunity in the future that she could have never imagined, to Roxanne's point. Her parents didn't reaffirm interest in STEM. She's Latina, so she's coming from some traditions that may counteract that pathway for her But Techbridge Girls opened up new opportunities. And she stayed with us through middle school and was connected to the role models that she met throughout her time with Techbridge Girls. She ultimately fell in love with her first field trip with Techbridge Girls to an organization called Chevron. And ended up going to UC Berkeley, graduating with a data science degree. And when I met her, she was in that midst of graduating. And I remember talking to her about what's next. At the time, I was doing Cross-Fit with lots of UC Berkeley grads in my class, and they all like time knew exactly where we were going; Northrop Grumman or whoever, wherever they were gonna go. And she said, I'm not sure yet. And I thought to myself, Latina, data science, UC Berkeley degree, great grades, how does she not have lines of people waiting to just fling up the door for any opportunity that she wants. And this is the reality that sometimes we forget, oftentimes, we take social capital for granted. And as a woman of color, because I have been in that boat, we put our head down, get the good grades get through, and don't have the ability to build the social capital around us. So then when women graduating, are picking up the phone is less connected, as you would say, but because she was a Techbridge Girl, she was connected. And when she picked up the phone, and I mean engaged, we went on a path of finding her an opportunity. And the first people I knocked on the door was our partner at Chevron. And they literally gave her a job, total 360 experience for her, she travels the world on vacation, she's moved to Houston, and is actually on her way back this month, to the Bay Area to continue her career pathway at that organization. And so that is the success that we want to see, we want to see our girls see the opportunity and be inspired when they walk through the door no matter how they come to us, no matter if it's for the pizza, or for it, or for the tinkering. But how do we continue to home, give them the resources, and then be there when they are about to take that next step in their journey, and then connect them back to the organizations that are committed to this work, and committed to really building the pipeline, and pathways for girls of color into STEM. Nancy Scales-Coddington 12:46 That is an amazing, amazing success story. I'm not crying, you're crying. That is so powerful. And I love though that you're meeting her need in the immediacy of just coming for something to eat right? And then look at what it had bloomed into that is absolutely incredible. And the work that you do is so powerful. Nikole Collins-Puri 13:09 Thank you. Yeah, it truly is a gift. I have to say every day that I get to lead this organization. I'm truly grateful and blessed. Nancy Scales-Coddington 13:20 Roxanne, how can these programs complement and enhance classroom learning? And why is that important? Roxanne Hughes 13:27 It's incredibly important, because for better or worse, schools are mainly focused on tests and grades, it's a very efficient way to measure progress. And students can get really focused on that end result as opposed to the process. And if you ask any scientist, any tech person, they're gonna say that what got them the skills that they've developed or the successes that they've had is by making mistakes by failing by being curious and seeing those things not work out. And the structure of formal STEM classrooms do not allow for those kinds of mistakes, and to learn from those. Whereas out of school time lets you do that it gives you there's not a test at the end. So students feel more confident to try to be risk takers with trying things and I'm typing like underneath here, nobody can see it, but to try different things to go through and test that out. And to engage in areas where they're curious. They're not forced to do it. It's here some options and to explore those pieces that they're most curious about. And that's what science is, is you ask a question and then you try to answer that question and it's, you know, the dog in pursuit of that work. So out of school time gives students that opportunity and it surrounds them with other like minded or just students who are also into that. So oftentimes, another stereotype about STEM is that it's nerdy. And while there are many nerdy people, there's also people that are very interested in sports and fashion and all of these things. And by doing out of school activities, they get to see that it's a very diverse group of personalities and interests. And I think that's really important for them to start networking to see other folks that are interested in science just like them, or to even see that there's people that are interested, I came for the pizza, but I see I want to be I want to emulate that near peer that's doing this work. So it exposes them to folks that are doing work that they didn't even know was possible and now are possible. And I think to Nicole's point, this attitude that after school or out of school time is this daycare or babysitting is is problematic, because we are losing really, really great engaging out of school educators, because either the pay is too low, there's a high level of turnover. And these are skills to be able to let if you ask any K through 12 Teacher, the scariest thing is letting students try to investigate a question that they don't know the answer to and are out of school educators are often doing that, I don't know how to solve this, like admitting that, and letting and learning with the students. And that's a really important skill. So educators that can translate that it's really important. And sadly, there's sometimes the first programs to be cut out of school, like if it's paid for by the school. And that's what makes tech bridge such an amazing program, that it's available to students in these marginalized areas. So I think the translation having more opportunities to have that and to have role models and to have adults that can help them through this process, but also engage with peers is so valuable because it takes it science isn't like school, we make it we pretend that they're silos of biology. And then physical science is separate from that and Earth Space Science. But scientists are talking to each other across disciplines all the time and out of school engagement allows young people to really do that for the first time for some of them, especially those that don't have any family that are in science that have no access to scientists, they get to see it in that space, and sometimes out of school is the first place where they get to see that and seeing those connections Nancy Scales-Coddington 17:27 Is so important, right? Because it's not silos, it's not you know, at your job, okay, well, I think I'm going to do some math today. And I'm going to be budgeting, now it's English time, I'm going to go write a grant. Right? It's weaved in throughout your career, and so great to be able to see that in those spaces and have that opportunity to make those connections. Nicole, creating a supportive learning environment is crucial for empowering girls in STEM, what strategies or initiatives have you implemented to create these kinds of spaces? Nikole Collins-Puri 18:00 Absolutely. Well, you know, as an organization that started with our first like, you know, 20 years of our existence, we're a direct service organization in the classroom, executing and delivering after school programming. And we learned a lot in that experience, one, you know, culturally relevant, and gender responsive curriculum is critical, to have relevancy around the disciplined concepts. So if you're talking about science, technology, engineering and math, how do you make it relevant to the everyday experiences of those students in that community, relevancy matters. And then, you know, I think the other piece is that we don't kind of create, like, we are inviting you into this space, where all this opportunity is, you know, abundance for you to take advantage of. We're really that's, that's true. And we are creating an environment that they see themselves through the lineage of their current and past mothers and aunties that trailblaze this way already, so they don't feel like they are the first where it hasn't been done. I mean, it is very, you know, significant of the movie Hidden Figures, because when we really on leash and understand all of the technology, I mean, significant technology in our existence has been tracked back to women and or a woman of color. Like I will say, like, literally you can't get from point A to point B without Gladys West. That's right. That is the foundation of technology of so many other technologies. And we're just learning about her now. The reality is, thisc technology has been around for decades. Yeah, absolutely. And I think that we do a disservice to not elevate and highlight and normalize these contributions to the wave of innovation over generations, because that's why our students are feeling this kind of disconnect of belonging, because they feel like there's nobody else in this world where there hasn't been the significant contributions. So I think those are some really key things. But the reason we made a shift from being a direct service organization, to a partner driven organization, that is really focusing on changing the systems and utilizing what we've done in our 20 year history, and equipping and putting it in the hands of others, is because we know the power of that adult in front of them, that adult is truly a gatekeeper to their persistence. And if we don't train adults, so youth workers, traditional school teachers, STEM professionals who want to be volunteers, if we're not equipping them to be more effective, to understand their own bias, to, you know, disrupt the decolonization of the system in which we're operating in, then our girls will never see the significance of their brilliance manifested in this future of innovation. And so for us, it's really putting the tools, the experiences, the training, the curriculum, the practice of equitable STEM education in the hands of those adults, so that our girls can fly through this pathway versus have one barrier over another barrier of the experience because we no longer need to talk about like whether our girls are ready willing or as capable like they are the research says it rocks here knows this right? it day in and day out there they can they can hold their own. But what is the barrier is to be honest, us. Nancy Scales-Coddington 22:33 Very well said absolutely. Roxanne, can you share how educators and program organizers can encourage girls continued interest in STEM beyond the classroom. Roxanne Hughes 22:45 So I will also leave space for Nicole because Techbridge has an amazing training for the adults when Nicole says like we can do better they as as adults working with children, that those trainings are amazing. I have to put that out there for all the listeners. In terms of things that we can do. I think that right, right now, there are so many amazing women science communicators out there and the access is so much better than a decade ago, 20 years ago, YouTube has so many women of color who are amazing science communicators, women in general, we've moved past Bill Nye the Science Guy. And yet when I asked middle schoolers, what they think of when they think of a scientist, they will still reference Bill Nye the Science Guy. But I think we've moved into a space where girls have so much more access, if they have internet, they can see some of the science communicators, they can see very cool stories. And what is really important is meeting those people that they want to meet. So access to women who are in college women who are in high school, like getting that advice from near peer from college, meeting and hearing the stories of women that are in the workplace, because it's so impactful for them to hear. Like I didn't know what I wanted to do at 20. You know, I didn't know what I wanted to do at like, or I always wanted to do this. And this was my passion like hearing stories that they can relate to, and to see how folks can take what their interests are if they're interested in sports and science, how they were able to connect those it didn't have to be this straight path of now I do like you said, Nancy, now I do math. Now I do English now I do this. It was no I love I love like basketball and here's how I was able to connect those two with science or I love knitting and here's how I'm able to do crafts and science. So I think seeing and meeting these folks, and I think educators and Techbridge, they both provide opportunities for educators and girls to directly reach out to role models. It is not hard anymore to find those role models, whether it's already a pre recorded presentation or just engaging. And then the advice that I always give to students is reach out. The worst thing they can do, like email them, find them on social media, the worst thing they can do is say no or not respond. But most folks, if you reach out to them and say that like their motivation to you, it's hard to say no to that, like you just feel it in your heart. I've just how like, amazing that is to help a young woman. So I always recommend those, those options and opportunities. And I see Nicole's come off mute, the tech bridge training is amazing. And I'm sure she will have some other specifics from that. Nancy Scales-Coddington 25:50 Nicole, can you talk about some of the Techbridge training that you offer? Nikole Collins-Puri 25:54 Sure, so we do a couple things. And it depends on you know who you are. So, Roxanne is probably referencing our long vetted training that we did in collaboration with the Nationarls Collaborative Project, as well as the National Science Foundation. Years ago that we just continue to update and evolve, which is why our role models matter. That training is specifically geared for STEM professionals who want to volunteer and engage and inspire girls in their kind of community engagement efforts with their corporation. Or if you are an organization, like NGCP, that has lots of mentors available, we provide this as a resource for them to prepare as they go hey go into those environments or those settings. This year, and I plug that we're in the midst of the application process right now, we launched in January of this year, our first stem equity Learning Community of Practice, it brought together almost 50 participants throughout the country, from you know, administrators or directors of their community-based organization at our school time educator, or, like the director of STEM within their school district. And it really focused on it's a a six month training, it really focused on how to create an equitable stem environment for girls of color. And it went through everything from how to assess your own bias, how to ensure that you're bringing the right quality of programming in how to actually deliver equitable STEM programming, and what are the core components and strategies that you need to think about? If you're not going to, utilize the Techbridge Girls program - how can you kind of translate what you do have in an equitable way so that it's meeting the needs of the participants in your program. We're going to continue to build that community of practice out. And then of course, if you are a partner that actually delivers Techbridge Girls programming, you receive training to deliver it effectively. But also, then you're part of a larger community of other out of school time educators, where you get provided coaching, you get a peer learning community to engage with each other. I mean, there's lots of conversations, as you can imagine, about equity. And what does that mean, if you live in Florida and Texas versus California, right. And so being able to be strategists together and to troubleshoot and navigate those complex, challenging situations, but still ensure that you're giving and getting this type of programming to the girls who we know deserve. It is also been a really great resource within our, you know, portfolio of training resources for educators as full time educators. Nancy Scales-Coddington 29:24 And those are some amazing resources that you that you have, and it's tricky to navigate the topic, let alone adding the politics in on top of everything that's happening here. Nicole, what are some of the key challenges that we believe are barriers in girls pursue in STEM? Nikole Collins-Puri 29:44 Well, thanks, Nancy, for that question, because what I've seen in the past is that the emphasis is in the wrong place. We talk a lot about representation, which just means getting more girls in this system or structure, sure that already exist. But how do we create the spaces in the environment so that they see themselves and have a strong sense of identity, but also have a sense of belonging? So I think one of the shifts I would love to see is less discussion about how many folks are we getting through the door? And how many folks are we keeping in the door because they have this strong sense of belonging and identity that shows up in those spaces. So I think if we can start to broaden the conversation, representation to me is just surface it's about the widget counting. But when we go that next surface down to say, how do we ensure that the folks who are getting in the door see themselves are confident can bring their full selves can be authentic to their selves can be in embrace their backgrounds and experiences, and have ultimately a sense of belonging that they deserve to be in the seat that they are currently in? Because everything around them affirms that, I think we will see that shift in our trajectory, and that larger increase in representation that I think we're trying to move toward, Nancy Scales-Coddington 31:23 Right, which is the goal. So absolutely. Roxanne, how can research better inform efforts to help girls feel like they belong? Roxanne Hughes 31:33 So another key piece of science and STEM identity research is not just girls sense of belonging, but how they're recognized as being a scientist or a stem person. And that requires sustained commitment by those of us who are researching those of us who are creating organizations. And oftentimes, researchers might develop because of the funding system, they might develop a program for girls, and it only lasts two years, the timeframe of the grant or something like that. And so then it's gone. And what we need is more programs like tech bridge, and funding sources that will keep the sustained because girls need to be able to come back to this once you've built an organization and out of school program, you want to rely on that you want girls and families to be able to see that they can keep coming back to that. So that sustained effort. And I think sometimes researchers can lose sight of that, if they're in academia, sometimes it's hard to see that like the work you're doing is also keeping these programs and keeping these girls in this trajectory of being in STEM. So commitment to working with community organizations, and sustaining that relationship and that partnership to help inform the organization and continue its ability to provide for girls. And I think that's something that researchers can absolutely do to help support these programs, and encourage and keep girls in beyond that one week of a program, but up to like getting into Chevron or getting to work for NASA or any of these multitudes of opportunities. Nancy Scales-Coddington 33:15 And it's critical to have that research. But I love what you're saying about how to connect that with the organization so that it really helps to propel into the next level and work together. The next question I'm going to ask of both of you, what advice or encouragement do you have for educators, parents and organizations who are committed to creating supporting learning environments, and nurturing girls stem interest? Roxanna, I'm gonna start with you. Roxanne Hughes 33:43 I would say be brave. I think this work for better or worse, or like how ridiculous it seems that that would have to be like my advice. But in this moment in time, I think it's to be brave to recognize that this work is important to recognize that empowering girls and girls of color is incredibly important to get them involved in STEM to see and to advocate for these programs. So to advocate if you're a parent advocate for your child or your daughter or to have access to these programs, if your child out of school advocate for programs to be brought into the school or for opportunities outside and educators it is it's really hard like they are not only is it about climate, but it's also about just like how busy all of the expectations we put on educators now and I think the the piece that Nicole talked about what tech bridge is doing that most recent program, having a network having a cohort having a a group to help you through this because it is really important to you can't do it alone, and you're going to need folks that can support you and do develop strategies and make these plans. So the girls need it to meet other girls to encourage them to continue, educators needed to figure out like what are the new and best practices for equity, gender equitable, and inclusive education. And parents need it just to know like what's available out there, if you've never met a scientist, as a parent, it's really hard to navigate that world and know what's available to you. So I think like that, that networking and developing strong support systems is so valuable. But yeah, advocating for space and for voice and being brave in those spaces. Nancy Scales-Coddington 35:41 That is excellent. Excellent advice. Nicole, what advice would you share? Nikole Collins-Puri 35:46 Yeah, you know, I'm gonna go with, why and the so what of all of this. And I think it really boils down to three things, the economic imperative, that the stem future is going to provide the equity mandate, that is essential, and creates a huge opportunity to kind of start to create some parity on this newer thing of our existence that we really have an opportunity to get right from the get go, before we go too deep and get saturated. In, you know, the the system that we know is not working for everybody. And then I think is about our humanity survival. If we're not bringing all the brilliance to the table, there is no way we are going to address these generational challenges that are presenting themselves now and for the future. And so do we want to have more economic opportunity for all folks? Yes, STEM is a great vehicle to help us get there. Do we want to utilize this as an equity mandate? Look, we are all learning while we're building the plane, right? In this new world of innovation and technology, we have an opportunity to get it right from the jump versus kind of have to go back and recreate recorrect what we didn't do from the get go. And then humanity survival, climate change, you know, who's going to solve these problems, it can only be half of a half of the population absolutely has to be 100% of the population behind 100% of these challenges that need to be resolved for the next generation. Nancy Scales-Coddington 37:51 And we need all the minds at the table to do that. Nikole Collins-Puri 37:55 Absolutely, absolutely. So parents, educators, organizations, you know, our future depends on getting everybody through this pathway. I mean, you know, I want to be you know, old and gray putting my feet up somewhere you know, enjoying the beach that doesn't feel like 120 degrees Nancy Scales-Coddington 38:21 you know, sipping tea with Roxanne and I Nikole Collins-Puri 38:23 Yeah, sipping tea and knowing that the full fledge of brilliance is taking us into this next century, this next generation. Nancy Scales-Coddington 38:35 Well, that is a very inspiring and I look forward to sitting on the beach with you enjoying enjoying that while our next generation is putting their minds together to solve these problems. Because you're absolutely right, it is going to take everyone and we need every bright mind at that table and having those opportunities available to them. It was my great pleasure speaking with Nicole Collins Puri, CEO of Techbridge Girls, and Roxanne Hughes, Director for Center for Integrating Research and Learning at the National High Magnetic Field Laboratory on out of school experiences. Thank you both. Thank you. Nikole Collins-Puri 39:13 Thank you. Nancy Scales-Coddington 39:16 This is where you can make a difference in empowering girls in STEM by sharing this podcast and the valuable insights and practical strategies that you heard here today, helping to create supportive learning environments and foster girls stem interests beyond the classroom. Together let's inspire the next generation of female STEM leaders. You can follow the National Girls Collaborative Project on Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn and Instagram at NGC project and on YouTube at National Girls Collaborative. You can find NGCP's podcast 'Empowering Change: Women and Girls in STEM' wherever you listen to your favorite podcast. If you're passionate about supporting women and girls in STEM, please support this work with a donation. The link is in the show notes. Stay tuned for our next Podcast where we delve deeper into empowering women and girls in STEM, exploring impactful strategies for driving change and fostering the future of equality. We look forward to continuing this journey together. [CLOSE] music playing