Hello, and welcome to My Favorite Murder.

That's Georgia Hartstar's Karen Kilgara, and today we have two very impressive guests on the show.

He is an immigration and criminal defense attorney who you might know from TikTok.

She is a senior leader in the nonprofit world and.

A self professed frustrated writer, fledgling wedding, efficient and curly hair activists.

And they're here to talk about their brand new legal podcast, which debuts in mere days here on Exactly Right Network.

Please welcome all the way from New York City.

The hosts a brief recess Michael Foot and Melissa Malbranch.

Comes off.

And here we go.

Yeah, Hi, thank you for having us.

We're so excited to be here.

Really, thank you.

Thrilled to have you, Thrilled to have you in a time like this.

I think we should go back to the Ketamine conversation with her.

Ketamine Karen, she's in the studio, she's on it right now.

We're going to do the first live podcast.

She grew up with horses, so it is a very apt conversation.

It's a horse tranquilizer.

Humans have you know, appropriated Yeah, like.

They do for everything, right, that's true, horse.

Appropriate to the white man in the room to be like, let's talk about appropriation.

Let's talk about the horse culture reappropriating it for my club, my circuit.

Party, for your club nights.

Yeah.

No.

Ketamine therapy is what I've been doing, and it's incredible.

It's helped with like deep anxiety.

I think, like I used to get really bad panic attacks and just sort of like shifted the way I sort of like perceive myself when I'm like experiencing anxiety.

Do you get anxiety?

You're always like the cool calm collective.

I will say that historically I have not had anxiety but perimenopause.

That bitch.

Let me tell you something.

And since I really and since then, my anxiety is ridiculous and it's about anything.

It could be about anything about nothing, right.

And I was actually going through my text messages looking for something, and I found a thread between my cousin and I where I was saying to her that I had just come back from my gynecologist who said to me, I think you're in perimenopause in twenty seventeen.

I am still there anything.

Oh yeah, but I'm not on I'm on the pack, but I'm not on kedemy, and I feel like the anxiety is such that it can almost paralyze you.

I've been there, and I think for me.

What was so surprising is that I didn't know what was happening to me, right, So I just thought I was going crazy, right.

No, I remember when you and you and I were connecting a couple of years ago, when this was starting to happen, and you were like, I actually think I'm going in see.

Well, they didn't talk about it in twenty seventeen.

It's just now that we're finding out a huge explosion.

And I remember, you know, I went to my mom and I was just like, did you have this?

No, yep, same my mom.

My mom never turns out no.

Yeah, it just got hot every once in a while.

Other than that, it was I can't.

Tell you the e I'm sorry, can we get the arab actually?

Yeah?

Actually hot?

But interestingly, I remember when my mom I didn't know what it was at the time, yes, but I remember there was this period of time where I felt like my mother was going insane.

Yes, And I remember saying that to my dad, I think something's wrong with mom, and he was like, like, what and I was.

Like, I don't know, I'm a child.

I wasn't I was in my twenties, but like she was acting so crazy, and she, in insight, I'm realizing, was having panic attacks, was having anxiety.

It's when her clusterphobia really sort of exploded.

Shehes, like, you can't explain that to someone who won't get them that it does feel like claustrophobia a little bit like you're just you need to take off all of your clothes now, and you're angry about it.

Yes, very angry.

I'm not going through menopause, but I have angrily wanted to rip my clothes off.

I can remember one day, like coming off of the subway, going into the office and feeling like I was going to die.

I went into the ladies room.

I took off all my clothes and pressed my back against my back up against the stainless steel door.

Oh so good, because the heat.

Is coming from inside the house.

Yes, it's her.

Totally.

You just can't control it in any way.

And it is a surprise.

The thing that's driving me crazy is now on TikTok, the big thing where they're talking about, Oh, in women's medicine, they've never done any research about the way ABCD.

So this idea that now in twenty twenty five were suddenly talking about Gary menopause and menopause is a disgrace.

It's it's insane.

Yeah.

Well, historically they would just be like, oh, you're crazy, right, Why don't you just not be crazy?

I had read this thing where they were talking about fuck but like burning witches at the stake and the women were usually like in their forties.

Yeah, O my god.

I mean again, I don't I don't know, I mean it yeah, but I mean that fits.

But if it's right, it kind of makes it.

You're like, okay, that's what it is.

Yeah, yeah, I know.

I think about my mom too, and like she had to get on you know, anti depressants and anxiety and it was probably just hormones, but they didn't check that fact.

Well, let'sa call me one day and she was like, I honestly am so filled with rage.

I think I don't know if this is attorney client confidentiality that I'm breaching.

Right now, but I wanted to.

She was like, I actually am concerned about what I might do to someone.

Yeah, I am so angry.

I mean I don't know if this is sort of related, but a little bit so.

A few months ago.

Do you remember this.

A few months ago, I was getting off the subway.

And we talked about podcast.

I accidentally stepped on the back of someone's foot and I said, oh, excuse me.

This man turned around and he kicked me.

Wait, that's not even the worst part of it.

I was the first call.

It was like, okay, assault on the subway.

Yes, but like that was a part of it.

That's completely wrong, But that is not who I am.

I don't kill me.

But I kicked this man back, and this other man behind me came.

He was like no, no, no, no, no.

I didn't kick him too very gently touched me in the back and was like, don't do this, and he kicked me.

What an angel that person?

I know.

I was so enraged and I feel like that has never been me before.

No, right, And I don't know if Taraji Henson was on somebody's podcast and she said that she really feels that we are born with a certain amount of fucks to give, and by the time I get yes, yes, and by the time you get to your fifties, you are.

Out of fucks.

Yeah, I'm three years old.

I am negative fucks.

To keep your feet to your.

Toe, bitch, and I'm willing to go down Like It's weird instant.

Kind of what level of violence can you enact on someone who just kicked you without getting okay?

So short, you have a duty breach, causation and harm.

So you have a duty to behave a certain way in society.

Okay, if there is a breach, such as someone kicks you, then that duty has been breached.

It has to be the causation.

You have to cause someone's harm, so the harm is usually damages.

So in this situation there were there the harm sounds mostly emotional, I think ascertain, so I would say that it probably wouldn't pass the sniff.

Like a core a civil suit, usually it's there's some sort of documented medical issue either way.

With her side or that man's.

It depends on the state.

So this was in New York, so it depends contributory negligence.

So if you were someone who contributed to the other person's harm and they harmed you as well, it kind of like cancels out in some case, so it sometimes comes out in the wash.

But so what her flat tire and then the kick wash.

The extra book.

I need to know is technically not right and damage apologize right, like it wasn't.

Just like I was.

That was you were at zero, that was a curable Yeah, I.

Would say, is that to be fair?

Neither one of us had any power behind the kick, like like end in high school.

And I really didn't mean it, like so I didn't hurt her.

It just came out.

He didn't hurt me, and I didn't hurt him.

I think I was just I was so offended.

I was offended symbolic yes.

Well, also to go from okay, a slight accident too okay, intentional harm right, violence.

Violence New York City in the morning on a commute, it's.

Happened to all of yes, right, it's like it should be over yourself, get over it.

But in these trying time are you seeing this?

Is this a thing that's like an escalating thing where the normal interaction would have been no problem from that guy, but now everyone is under this insane.

I will say, do you think this?

I feel like we are still not okay from the pandemic, right, I'm.

Just going to bring miss pandemic kind of walked out of it.

It's like, yeah, we were like okay, back to work, deepas like we weren't like, oh, we should all probably go to therapy.

Really traumatized, right, I mean we were stuck inside the house and it felt like and it's easy, I think to look back on and be like, Okay, we made it out relatively okay.

But in the very beginning, it felt like the zombie apocalypse was upon us.

It was very scary.

Pizza delivery was going to kill us, like that's the thing.

We all thought we were going to die.

We were wiping down cereal boxes.

Leaving the mail outside right like you know.

It was it was and you know, and it didn't help that the commander in cheap at the time whatever how you feel, in the very beginning, did not take it seriously enough and was And there are a lot of people that we thought we could trust who were saying it's like.

Getting a cold.

Yeah, yeah, I know exactly.

So I remember when we were watching Italy, we were like, oh and it was watching what was happening.

The body is like stacked up in in Brazil, it was awful.

In New York, there were choppers overhead twenty four, it was like living in saving private in situations.

You could see the streets were so empty and it was bizarre.

And I also think, what's interesting, like you also saw that like wildlife came back around, right, Like, yes, the water was cleaner because because you were drinking.

From the East River.

It was some beautiful time.

It was a magical time.

Right.

I've never seen out my front window of a beautiful view of the valley and it was crystal clear.

I could see so far that I was like, what is that over there?

I've never seen.

I mean, it just shows you, like we are the problem.

We are human beings are the problem.

It's us, whether it's on the subway or up where the viewer.

It's all of it.

We are the problem.

It's true.

My god, how are you guys going to solve that problem on your podcast?

So anyway, yes, we we actually we have a ten step plan.

It starts with me to down kicking people on the subway.

It's a whole plan.

But yeah, so we're excited about the show.

I mean, we actually are approaching a lot of these issues on the podcast.

I for the people who maybe know me from the internet, maybe they don't everything I do there has to be a this is what you can do button on the end of it.

I don't want any more doomscrolling.

I don't want any more think pieces about fascism.

It's not interesting to me.

It is depressing speaking of ketamine, and it's just not something I'm interested in consuming anymore.

And I just feel there's like this, I'm not a journalist, but I am like a citizen who has at least some knowledge of what folks can do to flex their democratic muscles to combat what's going on in this country.

I do a lot of work with immigration advocacy, so a lot of what I do is like, Okay, this is literally what you can do from your sofa right now if this is pissing you off, if this is bothering you.

So we don't cover any fucking story that doesn't have something at the end where it's like, this is what you can do if you didn't like this and you want to do something.

So teaching moment's super a teaching.

Moment and like not like a like didactic educational like sit down and eat your vegetable situation.

It's like, no, we're going to talk to this congressman.

And I think in the first episode, we talked to a congressman.

Yeah, and I'm like, dude, what is the literal to do list of what you are doing to fix?

It's overwhelming because very especially on social media, it's like, no, that person was wrong, you have to do this, No, this person is wrong to do that.

This is you know, and it's just you don't know where to start.

And I think the great thing is that because Michael is an attorney, he sort of understands the law.

I am not, though, So I feel like maybe I can represent like most people in the audience, right, So I'll ask him a question like, Okay, that's great for you as an attorney to go in and help one person.

What can I do?

What can I do?

And I think I think a lot of us are have grown weary of hearing this advice of like, well, right, you're congressman, all right, sure, yes.

Right, right?

What is this Victorian.

Word?

Miss it?

What can I actually do?

Right as somebody as a LA person, you know, somebody who has sort of average resources, right, And like I don't have a huge social media presence, But what can I do?

What are the conversations that I could have with people?

And I think you know, at the end, we're all looking for hope, right, but real hope, not like airy fairy do you know what I mean?

Like I hate like I hate that, Like well you could just sort of like I love my family very much.

But like.

But like no, no, you have to say it, right.

But like a lot of the times and if you are, we're on we have WhatsApp groups, and I think this is like a very sort of immigrant sort of situation.

There's a family WhatsApp.

Group, Melissa's family from from Haiti.

And they are big prayers, right, They love to pray, They love a good saint.

And I what I get really frustrated at is like, you know, God is in charge.

That's great.

Yeah, that's great if you are a believer.

Not everybody is, and that's also okay, But what can I do?

We also have like non deities in charge too, who have responsibility.

In the meantime, because it seems like there's like kind of a disconnect.

The Internet connection isn't great between us and like you know, beauty in the meantime.

In the meantime getting broadcast?

What can we what can we actually do?

What is you know?

What is one thing that I can do right, like an individual thing.

That's how I mean the podcast kind of came together was because Melissa and I would sort of get together and we'd be like, what are we what is going on?

What can we do?

And we would kind of talk about it, especially around like the Black Lives Matter movement.

We were sort of figuring out like and and those were the dark days of the PAN first year.

What can we do?

How can we be safe?

How can we what can we do if we get arrested?

What happens if something goes down at a protest?

Like people were getting beaten in reason right, right, So we were kind of looking at each other as just as dear friends know each other.

What do we do?

What do we do?

How do we help?

So that was really like when we came into the show, we were like, all right, that is the governing principle, that is our guiding light.

I love that because it's like when two people who agree completely talk, it's like now turn to us.

And that's a podcast exactly.

It's like we loved crying together.

Let's sucking.

It makes me think though about you know, the amazing No King's protests.

But then of course, like the two three days later, we start to hear on social media it's like protests don't do anything, Marchians don't do anything, and it's like, just as a person who isn't you know, I grew up in the eighties and nineties where political action was not cool.

It was like, you don't talk about that.

That's for those people that went to like the student un or whatever, and like everybody else needs to be rock and roll.

And you're watching, you know, the fall of democracy kind of in front of you and me seeing that where I'm like, that feels like a bad faith voice that's now in here, when clearly that was powerful and huge.

And then then you see the ice raids and you see these people being taken and the rest of the community just coming right up and around and then they walk away, and I'm like, that's what it does.

It does, right, and that is the best part about it, right.

I mean, my husband and I we go, we take the dog for a walk every night and we have like a debrief.

We do like our daily sort of like debris.

Is it one of those dogs on your shirt?

Jack Jack is a jackets a dog.

He's wanted an all fifty States sexual offender Megan's Law, just humping strangers and dogs in the st like he is a wild animal.

He is a rescue with two men for a reason, because they can't handle any other situation.

He's thirteen, going dementia.

Yeah, just watch dementia.

Oh yeah, he's like he's starting the sunset at night.

He just oh my god, he's yeah, you do even more adorable and endearing as he just becomes like this like crusty goblin and it is just like wandering around.

The house late, just like a senile cat.

And she screams me, just howls is me me.

She's like sixteen, okay, and she's going through it and people keep giving us cat nip toys shaped knives, like bloody knives and axes.

So she carries a bloody knife around the house.

I don't know, sorry, this is not here or there.

She's kitching you.

Her new horror, I know, the irony man being killed by a cat.

Kind of okay with that.

That's actually that's probably in Final Destination three or something like that.

We go on these walks and we sort of debriefed, like and we were talking about the New King's Protest, and I was like rad like what did it do?

Like why is this important?

And like he's like much more emotionally stable than I am, and he was like think about like the impression that made on everyone.

Not the president, yeah, everyone else in an elected position in government saw this outcry, saw all these people coming out, and when you're looking at that crowd as an elected official who isn't in the White House, you're seeing the people who are going to vote or.

Not correct correction.

Yeah, that is the real power or something like that.

Interesting, Yeah, that's yeah, what else does protesting do?

That sounds so dorky, but like I really want to know because I'm scared to go out in big crowds like that and like what's going to happen?

Is it smart to, like, you know, get in the middle of an ice raid?

Is it smart too?

Like what should you do?

Which you see that?

Yeah, that's a.

Really good question.

I asked that question too.

You know, what do I do if ice comes into my neighborhood?

What do I do if ice comes to my workplace?

What can I do?

I Mean, there's a part of me that feels like if they're in my neighborhood, I'm going to go it's just not yelling immigration is here, don't open your doors, don't open your doors immigration.

I feel safe doing that.

The ACLU currently has a lawsuit up against uh this administration against ICE because they are arresting American citizens and they're being held in detention centers, which is a clear violation of so many costs.

Right.

Did you see that when they tried to like yelling I'm from the Bronx.

The New Yorker and me just my heart just opened up and he was just like, suck my dick up.

And the girl in the polka dot dress.

So crazy with the double middle finger love her for me.

I'm just like I mean, I always think not myself is like the governing principle, and everything I do, it's like, Okay, I know, I'm a white man.

I'm usually in a suit and a tie.

I'm usually at like an immigration courthouse.

I Am going to be the person who's in the middle.

Like, is how I need to like exercise that privilege?

You can stand up exactly.

I get incredible privileges in life being a white man in a suit who has an education.

I can walk right past security guards into any building or business in New York City security doesn't follow me around stores.

Okay, I get all these like fun privileges.

When I get pulled over, nothing weird, it happens.

Okay, what can I do to help those people who don't have those same privileges?

Right?

So, how can I intervene in that adversarial situation where someone's getting arrested?

Can we?

Like, how can that people like us?

Yeah?

So thinking a lot about like depending on the situation, Like I can advise people to break the law, because I'll lose my life now, but I mean definitely attending protest, definitely contacting.

It depends on the situation too, right.

I Mean there's this incredible image on TikTok of like a young girl in like a pilates oupha with an iced coffee sitting down in front of a car that has migrants in it.

It's just sitting in front of a car that's trying to drive away.

Wow.

People who've been to.

Tank, I think you you figure out what your comfort level is, right, and then maybe and as time goes by, maybe you push it a little bit, right.

So you know, I think I said this on our show, right, I was talking to somebody and I'm like, you know, if somebody says something in front of you that is clearly racist or is an aphobic, and and they think it's a joke, my favorite thing to do is to make that person feel uncomfortable.

Right, Oh my.

God, this is the Melissa does this and she is an absolute.

Con and I'm just like, oh, wait, I don't understand, Like, turn it around to me.

I don't understand why.

That's because you know, you know, they're you know.

They're black, they're gay, and you whisper it and cannot whisper it and be like what sorry, I couldn't hear you.

I don't I don't understand.

Wait, So it's funny because of that.

And then eventually, yeah, the person is just like frozen and they're just like oh no, I mean so someone was.

Like, well, because there, you know, touching the skin.

Yes, And.

Then and then like blank blank blank blank, like when you're frankly, the audacity right of somebody to come up to me, a black woman and be like because and this person was not a black person or a person of color, and they were.

Just like because you know what, like, and I was like, what are you saying now?

I didn't feel like, again, I'm not somebody who kicks people, right, so I did not.

Story about going to have to.

But but if you are not somebody who is sort of naturally aggressive, right, or you're not somebody who likes to sort of cause a scene, you do it in the space where you are, right.

So I made this person explain to me what it was they were trying to do.

And then there is something and maybe this is me just being petty patty, but there's something that I find invigorating about watching the person deflate.

In that way.

You are not allowed to do that in front of me.

You know.

There was somebody that I knew who they had asked a question about whether or not the person was Indian, and this person said, this person said, dot not feather, excuse me.

We took great umbrage.

And so again is it the nineties, Explain to me what it is that you're trying to stay here.

And a lot of people said in that discomfort.

Them uncomfortable until they are squirming, and hopefully without being preachy, right, if that's not who you are, hopefully you've turned that into some kind of a teachable moment.

Right.

So, like the same person, this person was deeply problematic.

But you know, we were talking about getting Mexican for lunch and they said, oh, you're going to home depot.

What fire?

Which is.

I think a lot of us have sometimes people like that in our lives, who think that they could say things like that and that they can get away with it.

If you are not somebody who was confrontational, there is a way to turn that into a teachable moment, right.

That's kind of your podcast is going to be doing.

I can't wait to see christ interview people who don't agree with you.

Very few people agree with that, and I am I'm actually I'm actually really interested because of the rage the rage problem that I have.

Am I going to be able to like perfect timing for a time?

Am I going to do?

What was the name of that woman from the Housewives who threw up the table?

Is that Liam Teresa on the table?

We recorded the iHeart Studios in New York, which they have they our producer c Jada Bolt on the table just for just reliability.

But I wasn't gonna I was going to give you an note.

How has that then?

Because like you guys, just going in and doing your weekly video podcast is that like adjustment for you guys, anyway, it.

Is, and I can It's really what's really interesting is that I can see it.

Right.

So when I our first one, I think, when I'm watching myself listening to myself, I feel like I came across kind of wooden, do you.

Know what I mean.

I was nervous.

I was nervous.

I was anxious.

And I'm used to the conversations that I had with Michael being between Michael and I, not with cameras, not with people looking at us.

But I've been able to see we've been doing We've done quite a few of them, and I have gotten more comfortable, you know, even though it doesn't really feel exactly like the conversations that Michael and I have when we were.

Alone, but it does.

I feel very safe with Michael, and I feel like that's coming across right, Yes.

Like difficult conversations.

I mean, we're talking about abortion rates, We're talking about access to contraceptives.

We have an opportunity.

People have the opportunity to leave us a voice smail.

We play it on the show.

I ask questions, Yeah, people ask us all sorts of crazy stuff.

I mean, we call it tales from the dms where we go into like the crazy things people DM me, which is like sometimes.

Why absolutely insane, but I love it.

Admitting to a crime.

That TikTok Michael made a TikTok recently, just showing there was a couple of them, right, people saying like my client was like, I totally did it.

Writing in writing, Yeah, a DM ever been used as evidence in a court case?

Oh yeah absolutely.

Yeah.

So under the Fourth Amendment, anything you text or your phone records, you are technically sharing them with a third party and you don't have a right to privacy.

So if you are texting someone technically or texting at and T who then sends it to your friend, so you've already breached that expectation of confidentiality and the text message, and therefore it's not protecting under the Fourth Amendment.

I remember being way really young and hearing that those remember the used to supermarket cards, that they were like membership cards.

Yeah card, Yes, that they can subpoena that.

Yeah, below my fucking mind.

Yes, a guy found out that his wife was cheating on him from the easy Pass.

Yeah, I got the easy Pass wreck going back and forth.

Wow, yeah, yeah, that'll do it?

Yea.

I represented her in the divorce and how's she doing.

She's great, flourishing.

She got enough money to use that easy pass and hire me girl.

You got this.

Yeah, it's such a public world, like it's that I think that kind of information, especially for say a gen X or something where it's like that was not the truth for my whole life until twenty six seven whatever, and now suddenly it's like, oh, you're on the on camera at the.

Store here, and I'm going through I'm going down Montana Avenue and someone is filming me in the way because they're like, look at this self driving car go by, and I'm like, I've been documented at this place here.

Yeah, at this moment, I.

Mean, aren't you As a fellow gen xer, I am so glad that my life was not recorded.

Right every morning I wake up the Lord, thank you.

Get it on camera right now?

What was it?

Do it straight to camera.

I used to do a lot of fake talk shows where I was being interviewed by David Letterman, but it was just an empty chair.

Oh my god.

I used to drive around talking back to Terry Gross and I'd be like, oh, what was the question?

I go and I'd answer.

That, Terry, I'd be chatting with her this is Jeopardy, and you'd be like really trying to construct the perfect answer where you're like, Dave, the thing about me is that just I feel like I'm a natural I used to do.

That, and I would do like my haunting n PR voice.

You know't have run an pr well, Terry.

The thing about existing as a queer man in America, he's so calm.

We look at ourselves the way that we see the world reflection in a mirror back of what's happening in the world around that is actually perfect if you're watching book me, I feel like.

My voice has never gone to that decibel in natural in the natural world, Natural world, such a bad person.

That's a beta blocker voice.

Talking about Oh I love a good Beata.

That has got me through this tour is take a beta blocker.

I'm waiting for the hotels to like leave it on the pillow for me, like I am waiting by the wayside now that everyone's like paleo and not eating sugar, I want a little patan al on my pillow before because it's just like commune a little bit and it's nice it's not like a Xanax where you're like.

It's not Nope, you can take it in the middle of the.

Day, operate heavy machinery.

Recommend you don't please don't.

I feel like I need to investigate that you do.

I said your racing thoughts in a way that's does that like Xanax does too.

But you're fucked up, you know, and likens.

Down the like music playing in the background in your.

Brain exactly, which is just Sabrina Carpenter on a list tour right, like crazy.

We actually I actually, oh my god, you're the composer from exactly right.

I don't know if he has a head out on me because I had him change the music too, and I had him based off Sabrina Carpenter.

I don't know if we're allowed to say this on the show, but I sent him house tour and I was like, can you take the underlying like nineties theme from this?

Melissa and I have a lot of nineties references.

Yeah, uh, you know Dunker even though she.

Was a child, even though yes, and I was out here making terrible decisions.

Just you my name's name?

How did you guys me?

Speaking of that?

Yeah, Melissa and I have gotten to know each other through we work together.

We've known each other just for about a decade now, right, and we have one absolutely chaotic, villainous best friend who is sort of the glue between us.

She's my favorite, Alissa, and she is our best friend.

Alyssa is the kind of person yeah, yeah, yeah, Lisa, Alissa is you know, the kind of friend that you have that is down for whatever.

Alyssa, We're going to Croatia tomorrow.

She's she's at the airport.

Yeah, yeah.

She upgraded your seats and.

She has the miles like she is never home.

And we tracked your location because we kept do we have shared custody of this thirty seven year old woman?

I know because I worry about you too.

Are we at a casino in the morning.

I'm on the away because my dog is pissing everywhere.

I'm cleaning it up and I'm checking your location.

You do?

And she's like, oh, I just gota.

Do you remember when her she left her phone and Angel found it had a Yankees game and a guy named Angel and the Bronx found it.

He did, and she was like, I'm going to go meet this guy.

Angel's got my phone, and I was like, you are going with me?

You can't do that.

Angel I was like, you're paying for the uber.

I'm coming with her on your security, and we went and got her phone.

Is a good friend, it was.

It was more the paperwork alone.

If something happened to her, I'm not doing that paperwork.

I'm not talking to her parents about this.

It is untenable.

It's not going to happen.

Could Alyssa ever make an appearance on the podcast D Yeah, Chaotic Corner, which.

The problem issue to be there on time never mind?

Yes, but I do think at some point she's going to get so mad.

She does have major fomo she does.

She's going to kick down that fucking studio door happen in a chunky boot.

What can she bring to the table?

What can she help with?

Do we think?

What does she what's her strength?

Alyssa just brings herself like the Alyssa energy, Like everybody needs a.

Friend like that, Sally.

I went to a drag show with Alyssa last weekend and Clint and she whatlet.

The record reflect, they never asked me to go to any kind of things.

Well, okay, it was we went at midnight okay, and I had a couple of drinks on me and this is always out.

So I text her.

I was like, meet me at the show.

I'm in the bar and i can see her through the window fifty feet away and I'm there for like ten minutes watching her on her phone, and I'm like, what are you doing?

So I called her because I'm like, I know you're on your phone and I'm in here throwing dollar bills out of drag queen yep, And she's like, sorry, booking a flight.

She was booking a flight at midnight jeroone on the street.

It's all the time.

Where's she go?

I don't think she and it was like, that is a computer activity.

That's not a phone at we don't book phone that's a desktop situation.

We're not doing this on our phone.

She does.

I'm too scared.

I do it all the time, as it's not flights obviously, but like, can you use your phone for.

Things like that in public?

Should you?

I don't know?

No, I don't think so.

Yeah, because you're putting because you're putting your credit card information.

But how my credit cards have been stolen all the time.

Yes, I think they think I'm running game, because it's like it's always like eighty like eight hundred dollars of vapes and queens on my credit card.

They go to the vape store like down the road.

Stock up while we have this credit card available.

And I'm on the phone with the person from AMEX, and I'm like, I swear I listen to this voice.

It's not a voice, hard smoker.

Okay, this is American spirits.

To do American spirits.

All these Yeah, thank you.

Well, maybe she'd be great at you guys could do like pick a side.

Oh yes, we could do a great debate.

She'd be great about that.

She would be actually really good.

If you don't know, this is a little game where essentially we just make you pick aside in a very benign Yeah.

People write in just their basic problems.

We're not going to solve that anyone's big problems.

Don't listen to us.

That's not our I a litigator to come out and fucking fight about something.

Settle on a hell yeah right, okay, I'm so ready.

Do you want me to go first?

You have good one.

Let's do it.

Let's see.

The subject line of the email was seventeen years of contention Hi, friends, boy, do I have the lowest stakes, longest running pick aside for you.

My husband and I've been married for seventeen years, and at least twice a month for that entire time, we have argued over which is better, the basic Kraft mac and cheese with the powder or the velvet to shells and cheese with the sauce pack.

I'm not going to tell you who prefers witch so as not to bias your opinion.

This is such a low stakes issue.

This is we will both eat either, our kids will eat either.

It's just an argument over preference.

But I want the upper hand, so I'm hoping you ladies agree with me.

Thanks for everything you do, Brooke.

Okay, do you want to rock paper scissors for a side?

Now?

You go ahead first?

Okay, Well, should I do like an opening statement and thank you ladies and gentlemen of the jury.

I will be representing the Velveta Cheese here in court today and you're going to hear a lot from the defense about what is and is not cheese and what constitutes cheese.

We have experts here in the courtroom.

We're going to talk about the process that powders go through and how they are still cheese even though they're reconstituted.

However, let's say an animal gets run over in front of your house, right, very sad, very tragic, and no one comes and cleans it up, and it's a particularly dry season and it dries out right, and then it rains and it reconstitutes.

Is that still an animal?

I don't think so.

And you're going to hear a lot from the defense about what is and is not reconstituted cheese here today.

And what I'm here to tell you is at it acent because Belvida is in its purest form.

We're not modifying, We're not at You don't have to add and take away in order to give something its original shape, texture, and taste.

So in conclusion, Velvita is and always will be the best mac and.

Cheese, the best box mac and cheese.

Yes, yeah, okay, so I'm not going to do it.

Michael just did.

I couldn't do that anyway, It's you said.

That all the time.

Yeah, whatever, Michael just did.

I hate them both, but I suppose that's the problem, is that I don't like fake cheese, and they both they both feel like fake cheese to me.

However, there is a certain level of creaminess to the velveta shells mac and cheese.

What I wish though, what I wish, deeply, deeply wish.

I don't like my mac and cheese with shells.

I like my mac and cheese with like the elbow type.

Right, So if we could do macaroni with macaroni, if we could do the creamy mac and cheese with the right.

Pasta, has anyone done that?

I don't know.

You know, there's somebody out there that buys both and combined.

Sure, that's what I would go for that.

I like the shell because it gets kind of stuck in there.

You don't like that?

No, no, no, that answer is just so diplomatic.

It's just like it's very much yeah, Kerrie Russell.

But I feel like Melissa malbranche response, Yes.

Yeah, that's how you do.

Like that's usually response always like it's all disgusting.

However, I will say that, you know, I do make my own bestchamel for my macar I do she does?

You know what, lady's your what's your recipe?

A combination has a good one.

My grandmother had a good one.

I usually come combine all those things.

It can't just be the one kind of cheese.

You need several cheese.

To Each one has a different purpose.

And I like a baked mac and cheese as opposed to a stove top mac and cheese.

They have different purposes.

Yes, when is late night?

Yes, sound drunk?

Yeah, you need something to snake one your kids shove it in their mouth.

You're done.

Yeah, We're always I'm Melissa is always making fun of me because I go to Taco Bell when I am just glazed over, and people will recognize me as like the TikTok lawyer at four am Taco Bell, because it's all like twenty two year olds from TikTok at the Taco Bell therapart you except for me.

I'm like the long in the tooth, a little long in the truth to be going out all night.

It's just tac.

You're not supposed to get crutch girl.

And so when I am there sometimes people will be like, Sod's giving me trump, Oh my god, And I'm like, I've got one eye on last weekend and one eye on next week that is and gone.

There is no way I could be giving legal advice at this point.

And Brad stepped in the one time he was like, he cannot be giving listen to anything.

He said, he will right because because he was at the club with me what I was doing.

He's like, you should not be talking to anyone right now, not.

Even after forty eight hours, when I yes, yeah that's true.

Okay, one another one.

Wait, wait, where do you guys come?

Oh?

Yeah, yeah, we don't matter.

You're trying to make you guys argue.

Well, I have very early daycare memories of Kraft mac and cheese that when I smell it, I just go like that, like that kind of like I realized I was being warehoused at age four, and I was just like, what the is it is?

Reaction?

Yeah, I can smell at Chabani yogurt across the something platform.

I can triangulate someone's fucking location based off that goddamnani smell.

You know that smell?

Yeah, it's like powdering the airport at five hours.

You didn't sleep, You're waiting to bore your stomach for the South there already.

Yeah, you're making me so sad.

Anyway, sorry, bring us back, Bring us back.

Well, I have a Midwestern husband who loves snacks and like really bad food, so he buys the little cups, individual cups.

Craft.

Oh yeah, we do the powder.

We mix it up.

It's like perfect.

And then you add more cheese.

Oh from the real cheese.

You got to get that.

I don't know what they're doing at the Telemook Factory.

Delicious and I was just happy people living in a beautiful valley.

I met one of the employees and he was, yes, he's like dating my cousin.

They might be married.

I didn't if I didn't send a gift, I'm.

Sorry, no you're not.

This is a gift to get so and he was like, I've worked there for years and it's like the most wonderful employer.

It was like it was actually I think it might be a cult.

We stopped there on the way from like Portland to the to the ocean, and it's this gorgeous look.

It looks like you you suddenly went into the picture on the front of a package of cheese.

Like the little Hills, the like Green Hills go like this in the split idyllic farmhouse, perfectly stage.

They have a.

Dairy and a factory that you can tour, and then at the end you can buy whatever they make.

And there's this big ice cream shop.

So everybody there at the end of the tour is eating triple scoop the ice creams and smiling and singing.

What's everyone's ice cream order?

That's a that's a good Yeah, peanut butter and chocolate.

Peanut butter and chocolate.

Cookies and cream.

Brend and Jerries has everything but the Yeah.

The earliest who can't make up their mind right, like a little bit of everything, chocolate chip because I very cleansing, yes, very light, elevating.

Yeah, it's like the elevated choice for the modern woman.

Like the Orpper patty where it's like, this isn't a chocolate bar.

Those are my favorite.

That's my favorite because those are egg whites in there.

Yeah, it's not vegan, so so be warned.

I came here today.

I was like, I was in I have a full leather jacket having a big leather back, and I was like, I hope, no, one not exactly right.

There's a couple of I'm sure there are.

Yeah, I hope they're not.

And you know what, I can handle it.

I'm okay.

You know I've been through worse.

Sure you passed the bar.

You're still part of this family.

I mean, as long as it was it really just a big fur a big bear, a.

Vintage for we talked a lot about vintage for.

Okah, Right, I think it is, I mean, And maybe I'm just sort of like trying to I don't know justify what I'm doing, but I feel like it's already right.

And I didn't do it, and.

It was a minute ago.

It wasn't like last.

The first four coat that I got I inherited from an aunt of mine, and I will say that I remember when she got it, and for her, I feel like it was a moment where she felt she had arrived, like it was like a big deal.

I feel like in the eighties, right when I was growing up, a woman with a fur coat was a woman who had arrived, right, that is so, yes so, And she passed away and she didn't have any children, and the rest of my cousins all lived in sort of tropical places.

So I was like, so it's either I take it or it ends up in.

A landfill somewhere, right.

And I also, because I love estate sales so much, there was this woman who she wasn't publishing, she had died.

She had the best clothes in the world.

People publishing have fears the publishing.

And distract up and I bought her for a coat and I love it so much.

But I get that people called me from the estates side, and I'm the friend people call when they're like about to maybe do something on ethical or like, I just kind of want to like run the gut check past you, because my ethics are a little gray.

I would say, you know, I do represent people accused of violent crimes.

Sometimes I do a lot of work with immigration defense, but sometimes there are like a lot of crimes attached to it.

I was just telling the two of you before we started rolling about my client who has was maybe or maybe allegedly caught with a bunch of heroin at the border.

So we've a lot of things.

I'm sort of the ethical gray area friend, which is like a really fun person.

And Melissa did call me and ask me.

She didn't call me as if she I did there was some sort of penous crime committed.

I was like, yeah, do it.

I died and my mom donated her first to the animal shelter.

Sounds like a.

Threat, but you know what though, I had so a while ago when I got this coat I posted it and I was just like, what do you What do people think.

I should do?

And a lot of people said that I should donate it to an animal shelter.

For the puppies to like snuggle with when they're like if they don't have their But I.

Was like, yeah, I don't know, Like it felt weird, right, It's almost like giving chicken to a chicken.

There's there's a butcher shop in New York.

I lived there very quickly.

I'm so worried where the.

Outside is a little pig chef you're talking about?

Yeah, and I took pictures.

The first week.

I was like, what the f It's just like, come get our sausages.

It's like, oh no, did you know him.

A hot dog putting ketchup and mustard on himself?

What that is?

Weiry?

Hard?

No?

No, yes, yes that is yeh.

We're excited.

We're going to talk about fat discrimination on the next episode.

I'm so excited because I was a former fact kid and I was treated viciously growing up.

And you know, whatever your like body journey is, is your own journey.

And I had weight loss surgery about eleven years ago now, and I will tell you It's been really interesting about that journey.

Is the world is not kind of fat people, not at all.

And I can't tell you I could feel the difference in the way that I was cheated, even by strangers, right, people look you, and the people would.

Look me in the eye.

Now people were on the street sort of kinder to me.

The one thing I will say that I wish was that there is a body positivity movement right now that I wish that I would have been part of, because I think a part of what was wrong with me is that there was self loathing, yes, right, and really feeling like I sort of didn't deserve to be treated better, yes, which I feel bad for.

The person who I was for that reason.

Right, But it is amazing to see, especially young women these days, not having any of.

It, and I love that for them so much.

And I'm I'm sorry that I missed out on that moment because when I was like seventeen years old or twenty years old or thirty years old, I needed it then, yeah, you know.

And it felt like it would never change.

I mean, that was the kind of thing where it's like we lived in a very Vogue magazine world, very singular the monoculture.

Cookies right, and dye culture was so fucked.

Up, so huge that it's like we would never have that conversation about shells and cheese versus mac and cheese, because what a pig?

What are you saying?

Like exactly that whole culture.

And I think that's the upside of social media, where it's like everyone got on there and then a bunch of people were like, Hey, how about you don't say that, but you know what I mean, how about you adjust that position and what you think totally.

And we're going to talk about like discrimination lawsuits around fat people and how they're treated and like things that have been litigated.

So I think it'll be an interesting kind of like entry into that, but we always end up talking about like our personal experiences with these, so I don't.

Know, it's amazing.

It hits home.

Yeah, for a lot of people, like everyone, even if you didn't like live that experience, you know someone or you had a family member who was always treated differently, or you always heard like someone's side from Mark after Yeah.

Yeah, what I love about this is like the legal side of things.

I feel like I'm not part of that and I'm not there, like I can't be part of that conversation because I don't know legal terms at all, but but I love that you guys make.

It PU now yeah, yeah, you know you may.

I mean, this conversation is very similar to the podcast and that it's got your central thing you go there, but you also, like friends just kind of talk through things, discover things.

Yeah, we were talking about like looted art and like stolen art and then the Louver robbery.

Were like somebody got arrested.

Yeah, I got So we're I mean, we're recording every week.

It'll be a very topical episode.

I think we record a couple it comes out a couple of days after, so we will be covering headlines like what's really happening, and I'll dive into like the law behind it.

But like I'm not a Supreme Court litigator, like I am.

I am at the local courthouse with your drug dealer, with the person who was drinking and driving, like I am there with like the local public defenders and the local prosecutors.

This is not going to be like an esoteric legal podcast where we're pontificating on like the latest Supreme No.

But I mean, I think the point is to sort of like give some information and also make people laugh and made people sort of recon like, oh, you know what, I'm going to think about that, and maybe I've heard this thing from Melissa and Michael's podcast, and I'm going to look and do a deeper dive.

Right, I contextualize it too, right, like what do you do if you get pulled over?

Okay, we're going to do this like twice, once for white people and once for black people.

The things that happened to the two of us when we get pulled over are very different, very different.

Yeah, And I've started giving legal advice in my practice to migrants based off of their appearance, based off how brown they may appear, which is it's always kind of been like that.

I mean, criminal defense attorneys and immigration attorneys, we've always had to sort of think about, like, Okay, this client is from Sweden.

It's going to be a little bit different.

Maybe we do this thing a little bit differently, or do something over here.

But now it is quite explicit.

It was always like inferred, and I think especially defense attorneys were always acutely aware of like racial injustice and the justice system.

But now it is so explicit.

The quiet parts being said out loud, full chest.

So it's been a really interesting time to start up because the first episode I was like, what the fuck are we going to cover?

I mean, there's so many We've got too many things.

There are so many things, so much but we.

Will be We'll be in the studio every week talking about it.

And I always say I'm flying around New York City on my broomstick.

I bike everywhere.

I bike up and down Second Avenue to the courthouse, and then I come after after court wraps at like five o'clock.

I wear up on my bike with.

A helmets, wear a helmet safety first.

My dad taught me that I fly up to the studio after uh trial wraps.

Yeah, let's do should we do one more pick aside?

And then we'll do a pick aside for them.

But it'll be all constitutional law and we.

Don't know.

We told you we're sweating.

Okay, should be on?

Yeah, okay, this has solved my disagreement.

Do you shower after?

How having a bath?

Hello MFM family, love you all.

Recently, I had a disagreement with my fiance.

At the time, I was so sure I was in the right that I pulled my friends and family to find out it was more of a divisive, divisive, divisive topic than I.

Don't know if it's divisive because I said one on TikTok and everyone fucking came from it.

They were like, this discussive man doesn't know how to pronounce that they came from the People just started calling my phone after that.

It could be that or the swifties.

So easily triggered everyone's divisive about it.

I don't know.

I still don't know data so much.

I know what.

Everyone off.

When you have a bath, do you shower afterwards?

My view is that you do all that relaxing, that showering afterwards would just undo the relaxing.

The bath also cleans you.

That's how people have been cleaning themselves for centuries.

My fiance says that you need to wash off the SuDS if, for example, it was a bubble bath.

What other people have said is that that you are lying in your own dirt.

That's what I think to what I have realized that my information gathering is that most people who are British where we live and where my family is agree with me.

But my fiance, who is Polish and a lot of other my friends who are from other countries, they have another opinion.

I haven't asked any Americans yet.

Yeah, please help all the different Thank you, Laudian.

I'm sorry we're not taking any advice from England, like hygiene.

I'm sorry to have any British.

Sorry, all of us around the table have fierce teeth we're looking at.

So we're not going to England for any how, we're gonna.

I've been there, I've lived there.

It is Why are first swall in England?

The two faucet's hot and cold about a mile apart, and sink why I'm getting I'm changing time zones to get warm water.

This is absurd that.

The war's over.

Guys getting together around the.

World for three hundred years.

That was absolutely force, Yes, but like anyway, so that that was the first thing I heard, and the second thing I heard was for centuries people am a bathing like this.

I don't think it's been documented that they were bathing particularly well.

They used to.

Be.

Yeah, so that's so.

Lain and simple.

Let's do the most updated version instead of looking back to our.

Ancestors what they have wanted to do, probably get the I wish.

I could get the film off are all post baths shower not?

You are not not so after a bath you just get out later, lean to myself, but.

You've been No, no, I'm not dirty though.

Like I married my husband and he was like, what are you doing?

I was like, why are you getting the shower?

Like what a fucking wake a call after this relaxing thing.

I mean, I'm not that dirty to begin with.

Again, what you're taking a bath?

It's like I wanted to tell you, nos, always just had a little bath, right, just a little?

Are you?

Are we thinking that the bath is for cleaning or relaxing both?

I think both, Okay.

I think that sometimes the bath bombs are like so strongly scented.

I worked a lush in two thousand and nine as a holiday higher before law school.

I had to make money while I was setting for the l sets.

I had four jobs.

Was one wow, and my laundry smelled fucking wicked after the end of the day.

You those bathrooms smelled crazy.

I was asking for U t I not to fucking one for sure.

Yes, but as someone with very thick hair, I can't wash my hair in a bathroom.

No, no, no, So so you're.

Maybe like a face mask.

Okay, some magnesium.

Magimum salim drives my skin out a little bit.

Yeah, but then I have.

To take you so you're adding something else, Like yeah, I definitely feel like the bath.

The bath for me is relaxing, not cleansing.

But showers aren't.

Don't wake me up showers, I'm like still going to sleep.

The shower and the bathtub have to be separate.

I will, oh, you won't do a shower, Okay, Mims div has never lived in New York.

Always, Yeah, I've lived.

Yeah, I've lived in apartments and I haven't taken it.

Didn't take baths for my years.

They fell in the tup.

This is like, oh my gosh, I'm crazy.

And I think I called you because why would I call my husband?

And I called Melissa And this is these are the friends we are.

When your cat died, you called me and not her husband Andre like this is how this is how emotionally dependently?

Yeah, really were They were like can you come help deadlift this ninety year old man out of the tub.

My neighbor came and got me and I'm like, you know, I'm there.

I'm like I'm ready, and I go down hard cut to me trying to live this man out of the dub it was and I was like, was he alive?

I was like, he needs medical assistances.

I have to call it.

They didn't want him to go to a hospital.

They were like he might get an infection.

Oh my god.

And I was like, this is this is beyond my capabilities at this point.

This is as a neighbor, this is like yes, right yeah.

And I went back forty minutes ago by the police came.

I'm talking to the police, were doing a translator situation.

I go back upstairs.

My husband's still watching TV.

He's like, where were you?

I was like, sorry, what were where were you?

Help?

You enjoyed Dancing with the Star watching TV.

Slide on Dancing with the Stars.

What the what if my drag downstairs covered in blood?

Wait?

But also like if you helped him and he got hurt from it, he could sue you.

Oh right sure yeah, And that was my thought as a naked octogenarian was laying over my shoulder bleeding on me.

I was like, this is a head trauma situation.

This is really something that we need medical assistance.

Yeah, you got to know when it's beyond your powers.

Anyway, we moved and I don't talk to my neighbors anything.

I don't talk to and I've lived there for years in my new apartment, and people come, they see me come off the elevator, and.

It's they want to talk to you so bad because they're like, I saw you on TikTok, my TikTok neighbor.

I don't want to be that guy who has to come pick your grandpa up out it.

I can't do it.

Yeah, that's too much.

I feel like this could go on for I don't want to stop it, but I think we have to.

But we just need to tell you, guys, we are so thrilled that you are on this network with us.

It's we're so thrilled to have your voices, to be able to hear what you have to say, and to help guide in whatever way you guys do, through friendship, through law, through life experience, whatever it is.

We're just thrilled.

So thank you so much.

Thank you for having us.

This is a wonderful opportunity.

We're super excited.

I can't wait to see what happens next.

Yes, we're going to have a blast.

That show premieres on November thirteen.

That's right, we have all that info.

We're going to have so much fun.

Get ready to laugh.

Questions people don't need to call in their questions, need to GM.

Because people are calling me just because I got docked.

They're just calling myself.

You really did I.

Thought you were joking about they doxed you.

But I get doxed all the time.

Yeah, okay, okay.

People, it's actually not fine, but okay, but it happens.

If I say don't do it, they'll just do it.

So it's like that.

But please send in your questions because we really are answering them.

Yeah, we are answering them.

And like I say to all the time to everybody, while Michael is a lawyer, he is not your lawyer.

But we really want you to write in and also keep your personal information personal because people are out here giving us their numbers.

They're really They're like, OK, here's my credit card number, please read it on the air.

It's like people are sending.

My name is John Smith and I live at one, two, three names anyone where I'm located.

But here's a chair.

I'm going to drop a pin so wild.

And I think that you also because we get a lot of letters that the very bottom, they'll say keep me anonymous.

Put that at the top to keep me anonymous.

Do it yourself.

Yes, well, thank you guys so much for being here.

Thank you for having us.

The newest podcast on Exactly Right Network, Brief Recess debuts November thirteenth, twenty twenty five.

Listen to new episodes out every Thursday on your podcast app, and watch Brief Recess on the exactly Right YouTube channel.

Go to YouTube dot com slash exactly Right Media.

You can watch it and then you can subscribe to Brief Recess on YouTube.

Or you can listen and subscribe and give it a five star review wherever you get your podcasts, and please do that.

Yeah, thanks, thanks, thanks, Yeah, Now we all do ketamine together.

Welcome camera, Elvis, do you want to cookie?

This has been an exactly Right production.

Our senior producers are all Handraka and Molly Smith.

Our editor is Aristotle osce Veto.

This episode was mixed by Leona Scuolacci.

Our researchers are Maren McGlashan and Ali Elkin.

Email your homecouns to my Favorite Murder at gmail dot com.

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Listen to My Favorite Murder on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

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Goodbybye,