Welcome to brief receas.

I'm Michael pa.

Please stay your name for the record.

Melissa Albridge on Melissa Albridge and all charges.

Thank you for joining us.

We're going to talk about the craziest lawsuits, the weirdest things in the headlines, all the case law, all the amendments behind the actual lawsuit here today in court.

That's the thing about nail polish for men though sometimes if you're trying to no, it is actually different because if you're trying to do nail polish on a man, yes, you actually need it to be like custom.

Because I've tried to do like press on nails for Halloween costume.

No, I understand, because the width of the nail.

I'm at the dollar store buying big toes for my pinky because that's I'm serious, that's how big my figures I'm pressing.

Don't fake toenails onto my giant let me let.

Me find them for you.

And because they have this array and I'm sure they have a array of sizes that would work for you.

I want to know what like the dolls are doing, Like what's like the trans community doing with their nails because or like if they wanted to like press on nails or these like gel stickers.

I think a lot of them are going out and getting their nails done and they're building a nail because you can build a nail, right, So there's like a little thing back in the nineties when I was getting nails, you could build a nail.

To tell you about the craziest thing that happened in court, though, I forgot to tell you this earlier.

Tell me.

So first of all, I go to immigration court today.

It is a seven am call time.

They don't know you at all, do they.

It is cattle call.

It's checking out an Italian airport, trying to get in front of an immigration just in America.

These you just done pissed off the Italians, continuous continue continue.

By the time I'm called, yeah, it's like eleven thirty, and I'm watching as the other attorneys are litigating beforehand because it's open court, so you're just kind of sitting there.

So this litigator goes up in front of this judge and I'm gonna be like really big here for just to be I mean, it was open court, so I can I'm allowed to talk about what I saw.

This person was right out of law school.

I could tell so a child brand new to the practice, Yes, not at all.

Long new lawyer smell, yes, fresh new car smell.

Okay.

The judge really wanted specificity in this one situation that we were in, and the judge was like pretty reasonable.

They're not always reasonable, and what they're asking, They're like, hey, your case hinges upon this one specific incident.

We don't have any details.

It just says incident in this report.

Now, if your case hinges upon something like that, you better have an affidavit, witness testimony, a police report.

You need to have like documentations, exhibits, a through z backing up that one incident.

This person did not have that.

This person had nothing and was like blinking at the judge like, why don't you just believe me?

Just take it, take my word for it, okay, And the judge is getting more and more frustrated.

At seven am.

None of us want to be here, right, I don't have makeup on yet, Like, we're all tired, and so.

Did you get for stumbling home at seven o'clock.

Its forty five.

I'm putting out a suit and so we hoprate in.

The judge is freaking out on this attorney really leaning in, throwing the book at them.

Yes, and okay, this attorney's giving it right back.

And now I love pushing back.

I will push back all the time.

To push back on something where you don't have a life to stay.

Yeah, it's like a wild choice.

It better be you have nothing.

This client won't give you that testimony.

You can't get the police record, but like, enumerate the things you've done to try and get that information.

At least, Judge, I've tried this, this, this, this, this, it got so ugly.

So my advice, honestly, in any argument or any new lawyer, if you're not a lawyer and you're watching this, pick the hill you want to die, and maybe you're bad on it.

Hell, choose your battle.

Ryeah.

Here's the thing.

I think that that's something that you sort of learn with experience.

Right.

So if this person is straight out of law school, they have no idea what they're doing, and they feel like my job is to make sure that justice is served right and they're barely earnest and they want to make that effort.

I think that's something that they learn eventually, absolutely, right, So experience, and I think even if you were to befriend this person and.

Say listen, listen, cool your shit, listen and pop put it on ice.

They're not going to believe you, do you know what I'm saying.

I know because especially when you're first litigating, it's like all you've seen is Alicia Floric and the good Wife fighting for justice every day in course, and it's like, Okay, you're going to be in front of this judge fifty more times on this same case.

You're going to really need this judge to.

Us to like you right to you know, to at least not hate you.

To at least not hate the evidence to back it up.

For sure, the judge really has to to be on your side.

They're going to just issue a ruling.

Anyway.

That was my weekend review so far.

I mean, it's still ongoing.

I know, the week is young.

Yeah, So I've been thinking a lot about political violence, just because it seems that we're living in a time where it's happening more and more.

Yeah, and it's something that you used to hear about like in far off like Eastern European countries or in more developing nations, right like for the Haitians assassination that was absolutely all over my feed.

I heard a lot about that, right, And now I think what's interesting in a scary way, is that it seems to be happening more and more in this country.

Pelosi's husband, Pelosi's husband, Melissa Hortman and her husband and her dog, which I had to tell you, I really think that I thought that that would get more play, especially because of the dog.

Dogs cut across the political spectrum, like period is one of those things where I think they even paradise it on deep where like they were drone striking someone's home and they were like animals in the home.

And Selena Meyer took all this political heat because they killed the like exotic animals in this.

American I mean, Americans love animals.

You and I really would have thought that that would have gotten more play than it did, yes, But instead I think these other acts are getting more play, And I'm wondering what the difference is.

Why is that happening?

I mean, I can guess.

I think that things get play when they are convenient for any particular party.

I think when it comes to like political violence, certain parties are better at using that violence to move their cause forward.

I mean, we keep circling back to this notion of like what conservatives are willing to do to advance their agenda and what liberals are not.

Willing to do.

Correct, And it's not the same sort of like gut check.

No, it isn't the level of like how people are approaching it.

It's just different with different parties for sure.

So I think the hypocrisy tolerance level is like much higher it is among conservatives, where it's like we are going to completely make this entirely about this one person's death or this one person violence against this one person in our party and completely ignore what happened on the other side, right, or we'll barely talk about it, or we'll make some sort of canned statement that gets tweeted out or whatever.

Through the make it seem like it's not a big deal at all.

I think that's really what it is.

Is the hypocrisy of it is so overwhelming.

It's overwhelming.

That is almost like more frustrating sometimes than like the actual situation we're dealing with, whatever it is.

Sometimes I'm like, this is actually the thing that's pissing me off or upsetting me or like getting in the weeds for me.

It's so interest.

My emotional response to it is like not logical at all.

Maybe that's what's happening to the other side as well, right, Like their emotional response to it is illogical because they're so vehement, right, They're so steadfast in their beliefs that they're just like they're determined to make everybody else understand.

And how it's the liberals did this, the.

Democratic saying when Charlie Kirk died, your friends at HBCUs, we're getting before they had released the race and affiliation correct of the shooter, right, your friends who worked at HBCUs were getting like death threats.

Yep, they are bomb threats.

They were shutting down campuses.

But I think what is absolutely wild to me is that there is this sort of expectation that people should sort of now looking back at the life of this man and honor him in some way.

And I think that I am obviously I am at his murder, at his assassination, but I'm wondering what it is that is expected of me.

And I will speak for myself, I won't speak for anybody else, but as a black woman who is a first generation American who is married, that the idea that this man outwardly said that he did not think that I had that I had any intellect, and he thought that my husband owned me, basically.

So I'm just wondering why it is that I am supposed to be broken.

Up right, supposed to be saluting the flag at half masters.

Why and why do why are we having moments of silence for this man?

And I also think I've been hearing a lot that people are saying, this is our Martin Luther King and it's so And I'm oh, I have heard that, like this is our moment.

This is a mess in our algorithms, right, Like you're getting certain messages that I'm not getting, and like your experience of this is going to be like totally different from.

Them, for sure.

I mean, like as like a gay dude, he had some really fucked up things to say about like being gay in America.

Sure, Like what it's startling to me is that you know, there's all this ruckus around it, right, And what is always like a problem for me is when we can't talk about something like that is when I'm like, ooh, this is like tiptoeing into like secrets.

It's the idea of like secrets, right, yeah, we're.

Not allowed to bring it up.

We're not allowed to talk about it.

And if you do, you're doing like you're evil, you're bad, you're saying that you love you, you're ill the dead.

Yes, So that's what's always concerning to me.

But what I'm always curious, and this is where I'm a little bit more like, I guess disconnected from him as a person or his messages, where what I see as a complete lack of clips playing of him speaking, because most of the clips of him speaking are him saying something really fucked up.

So all these like eulogies are like photos and there's there are no actual like roll the clip of him speaking because it's the wildest, most cancer every.

Single absolutely yeah.

So yeah, And I.

Think people don't want to say the quiet part out loud, right.

The fact of the matter is that absolutely again, I feel like I really want to to say that it's not okay that he was killed in the way that he was killed.

Right.

It is a difference between saying like, oh, I don't think people should be murdered for their opinions and saying like I disagree with hate speech.

Hate speech under the Constitution is not protected speech.

I like.

I'm an attorney.

I took a lot of First Amendment classes, so I litigated the First Amendment.

The First Amendment.

Hate speech is not protected, period.

It's widely accepted in case other's Supreme Court decisions.

You cannot incite violence with hate speech and then say, oh, well it was it was first amount.

I was using my First amendmenty, right, that's unprotected speech.

I hear you, rue, But I think that that a lot of people think that your opinion is protected.

Right.

I'm allowed to say what I want.

I'm allowed to say that I think that black women are not intelligent.

I'm allowed to say that I think that gay people are sick.

You know, I'm allowed to say those things, and and and the other thing.

What I think is really interesting is sort of listening to the folks that have been talking about him.

It's that, well, yeah, he said those things, and he was right.

You know what I mean.

I need to get on the record and just say, like, condemning hate speech isn't condoning murder, no, period, Like that's it.

But that is honestly, like the way people are reacting ABOUTE are saying I condemn hate speech.

Oh well you love murder.

Then you found this person deserved to be killed.

No, not at all.

That is not at all what we're saying.

No, it isn't.

Yeah, what happened after they found the shooter?

I wonder rick nothing cricket, it just stops, right.

I mean, the governor of Utah when they found the shooter, for Charlie Kirk, came out and was like, you know, I was really praying that it would be somebody from another country.

I was really praying that it wouldn't.

Be goes on the record all the time, like reporters call me for a quote to be on the record saying something so fucking crazy.

I was praying that that if this had to happen here, that it wouldn't be one of us.

Like when a reporter calls you, Like even when I first started, when I first started practicing law, and I had like a case that had the headlines, and I would get a call from someone you go like you do sort of snap into it.

You're conditioned as a human in society to watch your fucking mouth in front of a reporter.

Not these mothers.

So but it's but it's what I mean.

And he was so earnest right.

He was like, I was really hoping that it wouldn't be somebody who was from Utah.

I was really hoping that it wouldn't be somebody.

Likes us Barby's dream house list of hollowing.

Let me let's get the mac collor swatches from fucking us and you show us where you're cool with it being.

And then I was looking at the picture of the of the shooter and the governor and is at the same badi.

O it was?

I was, so I was like, wow, you know what, though, there is also another part of me that is almost as disgusted as I am by the hypocrisy he said it, he said that ship, and now we know, I mean we knew, but now we really.

Know, My Angela.

When someone tells you who they are, believe them.

You should believe them.

Believe them.

Still, though, disgusting, and.

I'm actually really excited to give it to you, Melissa.

Okay, And I'm so excited.

I'm nervous that you're this excited about it.

We haven't gone to great lengths to keep this case of secret from Melissa on the team.

There have been conspiracies, cahoots, sidebar conversations, separate dogs blink twice if you need he we're going to be talking about Action Park.

No really, Oh my god, sorry that I just yelled really loud.

My bad, poor sound guy.

I'm sorry, I'm really sorry.

So Action Park is a famous, famous, infamous I'm sorry.

Infamous, infamous.

Do you want to introduce it?

For those of you who don't know.

In the eighties and nineties, there was this water park in New Jersey, and I can't remember where it was in New Jersey, but it was.

It was called Action Park in New Jersey, and everybody wanted to go.

We went, but everybody knew somebody, several somebodies.

If it didn't happen to you yourself, who got seriously hurt at Action Park?

Goods?

Please?

Was one calamity.

After a no no.

But you wanted to go to Action.

Park, plaintiff party, you would get it hurt.

I mean, I'm telling you people would come back like scrapes and like but like who serious injuries from Action Park?

I want to set the stage for what the context in which Action Park existed.

It's nineteen eighty eight, nineteen eighty eight.

I why Sharona's playing on the radio.

Oh the boys are in You Can't Sing.

Other was William Morris himself will Come to the People in the West villagin though my Sharon is playing.

The boys are in those cutoff, tight short shorts.

The girls are in there, what is it?

Brightly colored members only jackets?

What are they wearing?

But they were never members?

No neon puffer like like the zip up joggery jogging.

Suits carry paper Ricci's.

I just imagine that Carrie Russell in Cocaine Bear.

She's wearing like this, like one piece.

Oh my, oh my god, I'm dead.

Anyway, So Action Park was this crazy crazy.

It opened in nineteen seventy.

Eight amusement park, Yeah, and.

Actually closed in nineteen ninety s but reopened in twenty fourteen.

So there were so many, so many suits.

Actually made a documentary about it and it's on HBO.

Did you watch it?

So on Friday, we were pulling together this episode, which is like a couple of days ago, and I reached out to exactly right, and I just mentioned, you know, CJ, we're going to be talking about this, and someone jumped in and said, we actually know the director and he's in New York.

So he's here today and he's going to talk to us about the suption.

He's now here here, Yeah, he's.

Going to be here any minute's come out.

We're going to talk about the Nervous Park.

I'm nervous, you're shy.

I don't know.

My heart is beating really bad.

You don't understand going into Action Park if you lived in the Tri State area.

I was a Long Island kid, so it was Splash Splash for me.

I we did that too, but Action Park.

My husband's from Maine.

It was fun Town.

Splash Town, USA is where he went.

Which think you is actually just fucking with me.

That's not a real.

Put that's not real.

That's not a real There was a jingle, but for licensing reasons, I won't sing it.

Okay, So we're going to bring in Seth, who's the director of the HBO documentary award winning.

Oh my god, I'm real class Action Park.

Hi, thank you for joining.

Excited to meet you.

Michael met.

To me.

Thank you for joining us.

Thank you so much.

Seth is the director of Class Action Park.

It's a twenty twenty h P.

Oh my god, that was crazy and what was it?

Why don't you introduce yourself to the to the viewers to the audience, just tell us a little bit about who you are, how you sort of came to this park.

We've got a couple of Action Park survivors in the room and Scars prove is there.

I came out unscathed, came one of the.

Few I guess future plaintiffs right now.

But yeah, please introduce yourself.

Thank you for joining us.

Yeah, I'm Seth Porgees.

I'm the co director of Class Action Park along with my friend Chris Scott.

I also made the movie How to Rob a Bank on Netflix and my next movies about Santacon.

Oh my God, Courage of New York.

I hope you take them down.

You'll see, You'll see, you'll see them.

I love father.

Yeah, yeah, it is actually where everyone comes to the city to just fucking pi.

It's baby's first day drinking.

Can we get Actually, I think you need to interview us for Santa Babies versus day drinking.

Santa Coon is really it's like one of the worst things.

I didn't mean to put such a damper on the mood, but I mentioned.

Possible.

I love too soon, Too soon to talk about Santacon guys, and it always sneaks up on you like a fun You don't know until you step outside and you're like, okay, one, Santa is fine.

A second you see two or three, you go, wait, what what day is it?

It's always like two guys and they're like chasing after each other.

Is some poor unfortunate girl.

Like is Angela?

Everybody's a Tony and Angela?

That's weird?

Oh my god.

Anyway, Santa Coon, Oh my god, you really got us on something great.

And I'm actually really excited.

That's great.

But yeah, to talk about I'm sure there will be a Santacon class action suit one day, so just save your receipt if you bought a Santa soup because at some point we'll all be in court together.

But we're here to talk about Action Park, which I thought would be a really cool episode as we're sort of talking about class action lawsuits and civil law and how people, you know, super damages.

I'm a criminal defense attorney and immigration attorney, so there is a little bit of the vernacular that it will take me a minute to kind of adjust to because I'm just not in civil court that often.

But I would love to hear just a little bit.

Why don't you introduce Action Park to the viewers.

They've heard a bit about it from Melissa and her personal experiences a little bit, but why don't you both go for it?

Yeah?

I mean so.

Action Park an amusement park in Vernon, New Jersey, ninety minutes from New York City.

It was the eighties embodied, is what it was.

Right.

It was simultaneously the most fun and exciting and thrailing place in the world and also very possibly the single most dangerous place in the world.

And those two things didn't just coexist.

They were, you know, two legs of a tripod, right like it was this and the more people.

Is because New Jersey was propping up the most the state of the perverse.

Thing about Action Park and the reason I became obsessed and fascinated with it other than I went there as a kid as well.

Yeah I went there as.

A kid as well.

But the thing that really lingered in my mind was the fact that the more people experiences park and learned how dangerous it was, it was no secret it was dangerous.

The movie is called class Action Park because that's a nickname the locals had for the park.

People called it Action Park, Traction Park, class Action Park.

It was no secret, right, Oh, so this was everyone everyone knew, right, everyone knew and the more people learned about it, rather than scaring them away, it just became more and more popular.

And that to me was like what right, Like Moths to the Flame was sort of like, Okay, this place is crazy, I gotta go.

And what does that say about us as people?

We also want to be able to say I went, and I I came out on.

The other side, especially as a kid in New Jersey.

Rights.

Yeah, you go to school and you don't have those scars, even living your lunch money is gone.

Second second is the badge of honor.

You're like, you know that Wedgie is going to be nuclear you if you don't have if you don't have scars in Action Park.

Okay, And so it sort of found you and you found it, yes, and you sort of decided with your friend to make this.

Yeah, well it was a lot of it was I think a desire to the fact check my own memories.

You know, I went there as a kid as you did, and as I got older, I'm looking back and I'm like, did I really see that, that I really experienced that?

And I had this moment where I really was questioning like whether that was real or something I picked up in a comic book or a cartoon, especially because this is an amusement park, right, and the whole premise of an amusement park.

You got a Disney World, you have rides that are supposed to simulate terror, simulate danger, simulate fear within a safe, constructed design context like Tower of Terror.

The whole idea is you're in an elevator and it's gonna fall, but it's not really dangerous, right, And you go to Action Park and you're like that riot actually could kill you as a kid?

How do you tell the difference?

Right?

And also like I'm sorry, but my fear center didn't fully develop until I was like twenty six, And I think I remember it happening like at brunch and being like, oh my.

God, brunch.

What I've been doing up until this was so far?

What was in't the holidays sauce?

Like, I just like there was this one specific moment where I was like, oh shit, yeah, like I'm going to be afraid of everything now.

Yeah, well that's the thing too.

Right.

When you're a kid, you have no fear, right, you have absolutely no fear, and if you do have fear, it's fear of being left out right.

Everybody wants to be able to at least at the time when I was growing up, everybody wanted to be able to say, have you been to Action Park?

Yes?

Of course its Action Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I'm sure there are kids lying about going to Action Park, you know, I mean called out on it.

Yeah, So why don't you tell us how you ended up at Action Park.

I've been to Action Park twice, and I want to say it was like two consecutive summers.

Maybe I was fourteen or fifteen or fifteen and sixteen.

I went with some friends.

I can think of their names right now, because you know, I remember everyone's name that I went to high school with.

And the first time I went, it was I had this friend who had a boyfriend who was older, and he drove and didn't tell my parents where I was going because I was a lying liar who lied, and.

Your parents wouldn't have let you go probably.

Probably not, but I will say that my parents didn't want me to go anywhere ever, which is why I was a lying liar who lied, and we went to Action Park and I had to tell you in my memory, it was great.

I had a great time.

I didn't get too badly hurt, you know what I mean.

I think maybe I got scraped.

Sure, I feel like maybe at one point my inner two wasn't so to be, you know what I mean?

When you said that, And as the lawyer in the room, I do have to kind of say this.

When you said I got scraped, my literal first thought was soft tissue damage.

Right, we think in damages, and so as attorneys, we think in damages and like scales of damages.

So there's something called the CPLR.

It's the Civil Code for All Damage for loss.

I'm sorry, but no, no, we'll get there.

So there's this thing in the CPLR where they scale what your damages owed are based off level of injury.

And it's flesh like tissue wounds and bone breaks.

A tooth is considered a bone.

I worked on a lawsuit where someone broke a tooth in a car accident and they got bone damages which are higher than just like a flesh ones.

This is really useful information.

See.

Yeah, So like if you get in a car accident and you're suing for damages, they're going to look at the injuries scaled on that level based off the CPLR.

Anyway, go ahead, you're killed.

Sorry, I really really are.

But I mean but it was a bunch of us went and we had a great time.

And I will say this though, I do remember feeling like I feel like I'm older than the people running the rides.

Oh yeah, I mean that's just the riots probably running the whole park, the whole part, the whole yeah, for sure.

And I remember sort of thinking to myself, if I lived in New Jersey, I could probably work here, right, I could probably work here.

That was the ideal.

That was like that because I was like, I was thinking, to myself, it'll be fun, right because it's Action Park.

At some point my friends will come through.

Yeah, like the whole teller of your peers absolutely.

Yeah.

Okay, So when why don't you sort of tell us a little bit about what did you discover?

Right?

Because Action Park clearly was epic.

It was the sort of place that people knew about.

It was you know, they speak legend of this place.

So you took on this project to make this film, which we've seen love a great job.

Yeah, what made you even want to do this?

Like where did the idea come from, Oh, you know what I'm going to make a movie about.

Well, it really was, like I said, a desire to fact check my memories, because you know, I was a journalist before as a filmmaker, and I had done some light reporting into it, realizing that there hadn't been really any reporting, and you know, this thing had had entered the rum of urban myth, of suburban myth, this is New Jersey right of legend, and it became really hard to determine what was real and what was some random Internet rumor about this place, right, And I had my own memories, which all felt like random Internet rumors about this place.

And I was like, I want to fact check this thing.

And everywhere I looked, I realized, not only is that crazy story actually true, but the truth is ten times crazier.

Oh no, every rock you look under an answer is yes, it happened.

And then some right like it was just escalation, and it got to a point where like I could believe anything could have a action park, because the craziest stuff that I ever could have you could imagine.

So if I can't even imagine, No, this is like when I drink te quilla em serious.

I go back through my camera roll and see what actually happened the night before, and I'm like, it's way worse than I remember.

You're a mess.

And if peoples, if people, I mean if people knew, I mean, I wonder if they would be more attracted.

It seems like they would have or less.

But the place was, I mean truly truly insane.

And this was, you know, no accident.

It was run by this guy named Jean mulbile Hill, who was sort of a cross between Tony Soprano and Donald Trump, the New Jersey embody.

I was thinking, like that Chris Christie sort of like yes, Bridge Gate energy, Chris Christy was definitely he was definitely quoted in his obituary, I'll say that, but like like an aspirational quote like on the tombstone.

It is like you know, obituary in the newspapers, you know, lauding the entrepreneurial spirit that a gene brought.

Yes that I did not know that.

I don't think that's unbelievable to me.

But this man was responsible.

Meant for multiple deaths, right, I mean.

Quite a few deaths.

I mean, is responsible a legal term?

I don't know if I could say any kids.

That was the thing about Gene that I found so fascinating as a person is he was this complex person, incredibly charismatic, probably brilliant, definitely had ideas, sort of visionary guy who seemed to draw people to him, and he I think became this incredible example of something we see happen of course today, about how people with power and personality make problems go away.

And the big question everybody asked me is how did this place stay in operation so long?

It's not like it was opened for one season.

Action Park under the name Action Park has opened from nineteen seventy eight to nineteen ninety six.

That's was busy, yeah, and it never shut down because some regulator was like this death trap has to close.

It was financials bankruptcy is what shoot that place.

It wasn't like oh no you'll.

No, no, no, they could have they could have kept going, but you know, times to change money whatever.

And that to me was was real mystery is how did this place stay in operation?

And it's I mean there's not just one answer to that.

It's everywhere you look, like, you know, people are getting injured every single day, and they were get injured.

They were getting injured every single day.

One ride the Alpine Slide on a busy Saturday, could you injured?

All right?

You go down this like shady plastic toboggan sled thing, down this track that's made out of a mixture of asbestos and cement and concrete, and you're wearing a yes, it's very useful material, I'll have you know.

And you're wearing a swimsuit because it's largely a water park, right, And your break probably doesn't work, and the guy going behind you, his break probably doesn't work, and he's probably a little high and drunk, and he slams into you, and you fall off this track and you lose all of your skin, all of your skin, and then to deal with that, assuming you survived, because not everybody did this ride, they would take you to this really shady infirmary tent booth shed type thing where a nurse and I am using air quotes for the people listening, a nurse type person would spray your wound with this orange windex bottle type thing full of what we later learned was a mixture of idine alcohol.

And everybody who experienced decided it was the single worst pain in the world and this is true story.

After the movie came out, jod Avatow tweeted that the screams you guys seen the movie, the four year old version, you know the scene where Steve Carell gets his chest wax and he's screen screaming bloody murder.

Jed Avata tweeted that the screams he was directing out of Steve Correll were inspired by the screams he heard out of the infirmary tent next to the Alpine slide.

In the film.

And then you go about then a throw you back into the park and now you're, you know, wearing a swimsuit, your shirtless, and half your body is covered with this like blood that's got this weird orange goo on it, and that everybody can see.

So you can just look around and see everybody who's got who got Yeah.

You did on that side for those listening and not watching.

So you're just gonna throw up a photo of the Alpine slide.

I would describe it as just like one of those hot wheels tracks, and it's and it's just literally made of cement and you're on what I would call, I guess just like a like a literal piece of plastic like a shopping bag.

Stuff up shopping bag, and this ride was lying down a hill in this ride.

The problem with this ride, like the problem with many of the other rides, wasn't that the concept itself was a bad idea, although often they were.

There are alpine slide rides at other places.

We see them.

I'm like, I've been on something like this.

The problem with this one is that it wasn't actually designed in an intentional sense.

They have this mountain, they throw this track on it, and they kind of see what happens right, right right, And so the idea that you're going to model something out and use physics and math or maybe software or these sorts of things to figure out what's gonna.

Happen, engineering engineering, engineering.

That was not happening.

And so many of these rides, like the people riding them, were kind of serving as guinea pigs to figure out does this thing work or not?

And then they make shifts on the fly based on whether or not it works or not.

And so the outline slide on a busy Saturday, that ride alone would injure several hundred people every single day, and.

So every day, every day every day.

What's what really stuck I mean that is horrifying.

Yeah, what really stuck out to me about what you said was the healthcare that was being provided.

Yes, the notion that the notion that theme park run by teenagers yea, yeah, is providing health services to the people that they fucked, fucking injured.

Well, I mean it's just happening and being like we're going to pull you into an affirmary, someone in a lab coat with a Windex model.

It is going to take care, said.

Someone Michael's young.

It's a whole I mean, any amusement park has like an infirmary area that hopefully though it's rarely ever used, it's.

Run by a medical professional, someone with some sort of an EMT maybe not necessary credential RN.

So so you get injured at Action Park, they kind of do everything they can to make it go away where it doesn't reach a you know, a settlement or a payout or something like that.

And so, uh, they would maybe give you a complimentary pass to the park if wasn't that bad.

Now let's say you're digging.

Let's say like I'm going to sue you negligence whatever it is, which probably valid all I can say is good luck, because they developed a reputation fair very intentionally say, cultivated a reputation for fighting every single lawsuit.

These personal entry cases, as you're surely aware, are the kind of ones where they're almost designed to be, you know, negotiate out of court, right, and that's a stout.

Well, if you say I'm.

Never going to settle, well, good luck finding a lawyer who's going to do that, understanding that he's got more lawyers, bigger lawyers, better lawyers than you.

What people need to understand about sort of civil law is that most cases are taken on a contingency fee basis, which is there are many different like fee structures that lawyers get paid, but specifically in civil court.

And this is not something that I do in like criminal court.

Right, if this proprietor came to me and said I've been convicted or I'm being charged with criminal charges, I would say, okay, we're going to do it hourly or for the whole trial.

I'm going to charge you x amount.

Contingency fees are I'm going to take thirty percent of whatever we make.

So lawyers are almost incentivized to settle to get these pays.

They get it done as quickly as they can, exactly, Like you don't want to spend months preparing for a trial.

You want, then, you know, spend an afternoon in a smoky room and then move.

On, unless that trial is going to be fifty million dollars versus fifty thousand dollars.

Yes, exactly, And so you know he would never ever unless there's very few extenuating circumstances, Like you know, they would fight everything every single case.

So let's say you find that lawyer, let's say you take it the trial, and let's say you get a payout.

How are you actually going to collect physically collect that money?

He just would not give it to you unless you had the US Marshals show up at their door ask for the cash.

And this became a regular occurrence to the point where the people worked at the park they knew the marshals and point them in the right direction.

They kind of knew where to go right and literally what they would do.

The marshals would show up with duffel bags and they would just like load cash in because this place was also was.

It probably in a rear for many different settlements.

Well, not so much that it was more this place, the detergent of the money laundering was rife in the air.

Let's just say, you know, and so it was.

It was all a lot of weird stuff going on in that regards for sure.

Looking back now you're an adult looking back as to what you were doing as a teenager, knowing what you know now about the park.

What do you feel when someone says Action Park?

Do you feel excited or you like?

Oh?

Fuck?

Like?

What is the like emotional response you have when someone brings up Action Park?

Because Melissa screamed when I brought it up a minute ago, and cj our producer when he was a kid and he was so excited to talk about it.

So this fucking masochistic like feeling that people get when they bring up Action Park, it's like, Oh, I want to do this dangerous thing, so I live to tell the tale.

Do you still have that after making this feel?

Well, let's just say, if I had a time machine, would I go see the Dinosaurs?

Would I go see the French Revolution?

I don't know, but I would definitely go to nineteen eighty five and Vernon, New Jersey and see Action Bark.

And that to me is really what drew me into making this movie is the feeling I think we survivor so if I can use that term, all have about this place in that weird mix of feelings.

And to me, you know, even if you didn't grow up in the New Jersey area going to Action Bark, maybe there's something that you look back at and have this weird mix of terror and fondness and nostalgia.

To me, sure, yeah, And to me the story largely became about how nostalgia kind of fuzzes the darkness of youth and fuzzes the traumas and make us kind of look back at things fondly because that was our childhood, whether it was good or bad.

But that's so interesting.

I'm trying to think of like an analog of something that I could point to and say like, oh, I feel like fear and nostalgia and excitement and joy and all these things around that.

Really, I think, you know, I can look back on it and remember how excited I was to go, how much fun, genuine fun I had while I was there, but as an adult recognize how dangerous that was.

And if I had a kid who was just like mom, I'm gonna go Action Park absolutely funny and you know.

To us, like one of the things we sort of began inquiring about when my filmmaker friend Chris and I started making this movie was this question of why were the latchkey kids of the eighties, How are they now the helicopter parents of today?

Because they were because of that, because of that, because of that, and that the pendulum swang because of that, and so you have this entire generation of kids who grew up you know, stranger things in it, right, like like so without without helmets on age, fighting demo organs and stuff.

And then they get older and they have kids, and they look back and they're like, man, that was awesome.

There's so much nostalgia and you're like, well, would you let your kids do that?

Absolutely not, you know, And I think that was sort.

Of really funny.

I say this all the time.

It's a miracle I made it out a lot.

Yeah, truly.

I mean, like you third a decade of the nineteen eighties, eighties nineties.

Because a my parents never knew where I was because I lied constantly.

And there was no fine your phone.

There was no no and I could say whatever I wanted.

I could say, oh, I'm going to Michael's house and my mom would be like, okay, home by dinner, be home by the time the street lights come on, and as long as you were.

Yeah, exactly, that was it.

And that's what eighties parenting was.

And the story of Action Work I think really struck the movie.

I think struck a nerve with a lot of gen xers and elder millennials who grew up in this time because even if, again they're not from New Jersey they didn't go to Action Park, they can relate this idea of doing something they absolutely should not have been doing because their parents weren't paying attention, right, Yeah.

Yeah, nobody they were not paying attention.

They weren't.

Can you walk us through like the end of Action Park?

What was the downfall?

You know?

So there's a lot of shady money movement with this park and its parent company, but more than anything, it was that the times had changed.

You know, this was a product in the nineteen eighties, you're reaching too early, and then mid nineties, it's not as popular as it used to be.

It's harder to cover up the weird financial massinations.

It's harder to deal with the endless number of injuries interesting, and eventually the park just you know, this action park itself was a summertime attraction on the side of a mountain.

It also housed a ski resort in the winter.

Hi highly seasonal, and eventually it just doesn't open for the nineteen ninety six season, and then soon thereafter they sell the whole mountain, the whole resort to a multinational corporation, the same one that owned Whistler Mountain that really only cared about the ski resort.

They didn't really want much to do the water park, and so the water park, all the creative rides, the fun rise, they were sort of stripped away and it became just kind of this generic seasonal water park called Mountain Creek.

And it's open now and it's actually like.

A really great little water park run by different people.

You know, it's a very safe place to go, and people run it are lovely nowadays.

They liked the movie.

I was really happy about that.

But it also the park where you go to today, there really is a sense of history and ghosts almost You walk around and you're like, not many of the original rides are there, but like, oh my goodness, that's still there, and that one is still there, and these are sorts of rides because I think about Action Park, it was one of the very first modern water parks in the country, and so the idea of what a water park was hadn't been fully defined, and so almost all of these rides were originals one Off's early prototypes of things that would then become standardized.

And so I remember from the film that some of them were like his brain child, where he would draw something on the back of a napkin and then they would quite literally build it the next day with like a couple of teenagers with a hammer.

Or a brainchild of some lunatic who no normal amusement park would speak to, right, And so these entrepreneurial ride designers, guys in their basement with a doodle pad and an idea, would come with trashing down and give them their ideas, and they would build these things and then test them by throwing teenagers then and so you had you know saw in the movie The Man and the Ball and the Ball which was one of the more infamous samples where you just roll a guy down a ball down a hill and a ball and maybe it falls off the track and ends up going over the highway and in the swamp.

Who knows anything could happen.

So please watch this film.

I do have to say.

Can I want to talk about the one that was just like a circle, the loopity loop, the loop loop, the loop, the cannonball, So you could you could probably tell this story better than I can.

But essentially what I remember from the film was it was just sort of like this loop.

It was like a slide.

It was like a hot wheels track.

It was a slide.

One loop and you're out.

And they couldn't figure out why people kept getting hurt in it, and so they kept sort of modifying it because people kept coming out with scrapes and cuts all over themselves.

First, when they first built this thing, this ride, they would test out and of course the most rigorous scientific manner possible, which is Jeene, owner of the park, standing next to the ride, waving one hundred dollars bills in the air and tempting teenage employees to go down in exchange one hundred dollars bills and then seeing how injured they got.

At one hundred dollars when you're nineteen eight is money and you're fifteen.

You have any idea how many cars you can get that much money?

Comic book by your teeth?

Yeah?

And so these how many lucies you're gonna buy?

Yeah?

So something?

Yes, So do you remember this ride?

The loop loop?

The second you walk into the park.

It greeted you.

It was, it loomed over you.

It was a landmark.

It was a landmark, and it was the signal that the world you're about to enter was a different universe from You're not in Kansas anymore the second you see that loop, right, and so you they would send some teenagers bribed with one hundred dollars in cold heart cash, right down this thing.

And first couple of kids they send down, well, they realized they hadn't put sufficient patting in a loop.

So they get to the top and it's kind of like face plant against the fiberglass and their missing teeth and their mouths are bloody.

Not a pretty picture.

So you got to fix this, right, So they go in, put in some more padding, send some more kids down.

These kids, No, we're missing teeth.

They fixed that problem, but what are all these lacerations on their body?

Where these scrapes coming from?

So they opened up the thing and realizable looks like some teeth got stuck in the padding and it was just scraping into these kids, like some.

Human teeth, human teeth.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, which is one of the most primarily like aggressively things crusty much And so this ride wicked.

This ride was not open often.

They spent many years trying to perfect it and make it work.

They spent many years sending employees down and bribed one hundred dollars a pop.

I spoke to some of them.

I remember when I went there as a kid.

I was told, I think it was not open to the public, but I saw people going down.

Was told, those are employees.

And the problem with this ride was that you could never fully control the experience to ensure somebody actually made it through to the other side, right, because you go on a roller coaster, you're stop shaking.

And I think there probably were a lot of kids who were willing to go on that ride.

I was not one of those kids, you know.

I mean, like everything else seem normally like I'm not going that, but this other thing that's definitely death trap.

I guess I got to go on that, yeah, you know, yeah, And so it really it changes the goalposts of what is normal from the second you step through.

Knowing all that you know, seeing all that.

You've seen, being a man of a certain age.

You how do you enter the world from this learned perspective?

How do you re enter society?

After making this film, knowing everything that you've learned about Action Park?

Does it change the way you approach life?

Amusement parks?

Risk?

Are you just like, Wow, that was fucking crazy and you go back to the way you were well?

To me, it was it was mostly sound, a hoity toity, but an investigation into human nature and why people, knowing that this was going to hurt them, still chose to do it.

It's very interesting and and the biggest questions I was bouncing around and I think I was seeking answers for was about my fellow humans and understand what is it about us?

Because I could relate to that, I could feel myself being drawn into this and wanting to go there and saying what is that?

You know?

What is going on?

Yeah?

And that, to me it was was really the biggest question.

You know, everything else it's like, yeah, the world's a dangerous place, we get it.

But also I think you know, asking me like, how does it change my life?

Not nearly as much as it change that of the kids who who went there and the kids who worked there, you know.

And I think meeting so many people from that area who either spent their childhoods with Action Park as their babysitter or spent their childhoods working at Action Park, childhood's working like a coal mine about.

Trying child.

And I think it explained so much about the you know, generational nature of gen X and the people who came from there, and the resilience, the great the weirdness of them, and that's kind of cool.

Let's and I talk about gen X a lot do And I think now that we're talking about this, it makes me oftentimes as a member of gen X, I feel like nobody cares about us, right, And I feel like Action Park sort of exemplifies that.

Like we were going to Action Park, kids were getting hurt all the time we went anyway, our parents, I mean the grants that I lie to my parents, I snuck out to go, But I mean, I think, but like you said, there were some parents who were using Action Park as the babysitter, right, Like, what am I going to do with my kid?

This summer, go go to Action Park.

But if you lived in the area, you knew that Action Park was dangerous, but you were sending your kids to go there anyway.

It's really interesting, you know, like, but what does that say.

It says something about you know, kizzillbee kids and some kids are sort of thrill seekers and they'll go.

What does it say about the parents of the kids and them?

And a lot of my kind of early investigation into the story was driven by trying to answer that question about my parents.

My parents are extremely risk averse, Like if we went to some like Flyway Night Carnival, they would have been like, hell, no, you're not going on that ride.

You know that thing.

I don't trust that Carney, I don't trust that thing.

But we went to Action Park, and I you know, I called my parents up when I got into I was like, Mom, what were you thinking?

Like it was so out of character for them, and they said, well, they advertised on TV.

It made it seem like a great place to take your family.

So okay, okay, that explains the first time I went.

When I come back, because I remember my dad making jokes while we're in line about his places called Accident Park, and I'm like, what is going on?

Yeah, it's amazing to just think about like what branding or just a nice sign or the sort of perception of establishment can do to trust in a consumer.

It's really interesting.

I also think that, you know, we, I think we're also looking at this through the lens of today, right, having all the information in our fingertips, So we we know now today that just because something is on TV or on the news doesn't necessarily mean that you can trust it.

But I feel like when I was growing up, if it was on TV, well, they wouldn't have it on TV.

They wouldn't.

They wouldn't let us go there if it was dangerous.

They wouldn't.

They wouldn't charge admission and say drop your kids off here if it was dangerous.

Like Great Adventure.

And it was nothing like Great Adventure, do you know what I mean?

It was a wild time, it was.

It was well, thank you for joining us.

It was so much fun.

Watch Class Action Park on HBO.

Yeah it's you, Maxia, and be on the lookout for something Santacon related in the coming month.

Absolutely, but that also Santacon watch the fuck out.

Yeah, yeah, we're just plug it if that's school.

We're premiering the Santacon movie November thirteenth as part of doc NYC Film Festival, so by this point that'll probably would be too late for you to see it, but look out for screenings afterwards.

That sounds like an invitation for us to go.

I think you should go.

That's really good.

Well, thank you so much, thank you for that invitation.

Thank you, thank you.

I love talking to Seth.

That was crazy.

It brought back so many memories.

You have no idea.

It was so good.

It was so good.

What a sweetheart too, I mean guy, Yeah, yeah, clearly survived.

Something, as did we all did, as did we all.

Now we're going to jump into Tales from the DMS, where we read all your burning questions that you submitted through my link tree, either in a voicemail or you wrote into the show.

This should be good.

So the first question is it deals a lot with immigration law.

A lot of them deal with immigration line and that's what I'm sort of my special to you, which I'm happy to answer all the questions until I'm blowing the foe.

You have to remember, while Michael is a lawyer, he is not your lawyer.

And that you should find your own attorney in your own states so you can ask them your questions.

It is just for informational and entertainment purposes.

Thank you for doing that.

Thank you.

You'd think that I'm not a lawyer.

I'm going to say that.

You get really excited and passionate I do about the work.

And also, like immigration law, it's federal law, so I can help people in other states, but it's you need a local lawyer.

You do to go to your hearing with you.

People are contacting me in California and I'm like, I can't fly to LA for your your bond teering.

And also, I mean, you don't know the particulars of their case so exactly.

So the first question is there a path to citizenship for people who have DAKA and are we left with marriage as our only option?

It's kind of the question, just a.

Good question, so, Michael, for people who have DOCA, is there a way to citizenship or are we just left with the only option of marriage?

Also, are people with DOCA in danger of being deported by ice?

Great question about whether or not DOCA is something that you know?

How do you get status if you're a DOCA?

Recipient.

So DOCA is sort of like the Dreamers Act.

You came here as a child with a parent.

It's not a pathway to citizenship.

It is a protected status.

It's a temporary status.

So the thing about DOCCA is that you usually do need some sort of other avenue to seek full citizenship where you're voting, where you are, you know, a US citizen with a US issued passport.

So marriage is not your only option.

I don't know your situation.

I would need to know sort of like everything about your life to say like marriages only option.

But I can't like advise people to get married for green card purposes, like that is just like totally not okay, it's technically fraud.

But if you are seeing someone and you decide to get married and they are a US citizen, it is something that does lead to citizenship.

I will say under the Trump administration, as of today, I am working with clients who are seeking Green cards through marriage and they are getting them.

Like I had a client who went in front of their their sort of interview with USCIS and they said that it was like a lovely conversation with this person and that it wasn't this horrifying I mean draconian.

Experience, gratifying to hear.

USCIS is US Customs and Immigration Services.

It's sort of like the government agency where DHS, Department of Homeland Security sits, and beneath that is what everyone knows, ICE, Immigration and Customs Enforcement.

So USCIS is sort of like the big umbrella where all of immigration customs activity happened.

So you pass through USCIS when you are going through customs at the border, your flight just landed from Aruba, you're coming back from a vacation.

That's the government agency you're kind of passing through, and that's who all these ICE officers work for.

Yeah.

I can't say much because I'm up against these folks.

You don't have to say anything.

You don't have to say anything.

I'll just quietly look and just I.

Mean, you can say whatever you want.

You have First.

Amendment rates, do I still?

I mean for now?

I guess yeah.

I mean I don't know.

Every now and then maybe we don't.

I don't know, have the jump.

Every day the law comes out, it's a little different.

Let me ask you a question about people like this.

So, but these are folks who started the process a while back.

These are not people who just started the process because I write the started under the Biden administration.

Maybe in this in this situation they had gotten married after.

Yeah, I just think it really is like again, I can't advise people like.

You shouldn't be of course, not of course not, but.

In from my perspective and the things that I have seen and I'll speak about like this is my opinion, it really is a fucking crapshoot sometimes, like we just don't know what's going to happen, and it's crazy because it's your life and it's like high stakes for many people.

You might get deported back to a country where you know you might be unlived for whatever political reason.

Or whatever there since you were too yes.

Exactly right.

So you know, I have this like kind of like separation from it because I'm not an immigrant, but I deal with it all the times from like yeah, like there there is possibility there still I am still seeing successful cases brought and it's very reassuring and like wonderful for me to experience.

But like I'm not the one not sleeping and days leading up to the interview at the immigration office.

So it is it's interesting.

It's kind of like a so what's the answer.

The answer is that there are many pathways to citizenship.

DOCA is not one of them.

Okay, marriage is one of them, right, But there's also asylum.

There's also asylum based on like political claims.

There's asylum based on convention against torture.

There are many different sort of like avenues.

So definitely work with an immigration attorney.

I mean, if you want to reach out to me directly through my link tree, I'm happy to sort of hear all about your case and you're you as a person and then say like, Okay, these are what your options are.

But marriage is not the only pathway forward for DACA.

So this next question is going to be about how often does the search warrant lead to formal charges and how often do those charges lead to convictions.

So, okay, hi Michael, what is the conversion rate between a law enforcement agency or if there's a difference between state life, local federal, what those conversion rates are between getting a search warrant searching a person's place and then that turning into real charges, and then what is the conversion rate between those charges being brought and convictions.

So interesting, search warrants are one of my I like love nerding out about this.

If you see me at a party, please come up to me and ask me about the Fourth Amendment.

I check every single fucking class in law school.

Remember that.

And it's also one of these things that like kind of doesn't come up that much in court.

So, like the Fourth Amendment is unlawful searches and seizures, and there's a long history to it.

It was basically in England, we're trying to get away from this sort of concept of like we were able to just kind of grab people out of their homes and lock them up until they told us what they wanted, which is starting to sound like something that happens a little bit more often here in America, But at least for a really long time, we weren't doing that.

And the Fourth Amendment is the one that people often talk about when we talk about stop and frisk and when we talk about people getting pulled over in their car.

Those are like the two big scenarios.

It's like what can they search and what can they not search?

But this specific question was really coming from like whether a search warrant leads to formal charges, which is a really cool question to think about because a search warrant is just sort of a letter from a judge saying that you know, the police have authority, they have enough probable cause to believe a crime has been committed to then go ahead and search this person's home, car, into purse, whatever it may be.

But the likelihood of charges is really like dependent on what evidence I guess they find in that search, okay, and what evidence they had to kind of get to a place where a judge was issuing a search warrant, So really depends on the situation here that might be they had like overwhelming evidence and they needed like one little critical piece, Like we had all these eyewitnesses, but we didn't have the actual like murder weapon, but we saw the murderer alleged murderer going to the house with the weapon.

We're going to get the warrant for the house and go search the house.

So somebody gets a search warrant, do they have to be very specific about the places they can search?

So can you search someone's home but not their car?

Can you search their car but not their person?

This is I'm obsessed with this.

I love this question.

You have no idems.

The way you got excited about action bark.

Okay, I get excited about questions about the fucking fourth Amendment.

So anyway, so it has to be reasonably within the scope.

So there was this really cool case in law school, I like let up where the clothes that the murderer was wearing were like in a washing machine, and they weren't looking for the clothes.

They were looking for the weapon.

But the cops looked in the washing machine and it wasn't a reasonable place to search.

It was.

It was not, it was not.

And so the court ruled, like it wasn't reasonable for them to like look in there and find like a blood stained shirt and use that as evidence.

Okay, And so in court you argue something of it's the fruit of the poisonous tree.

So that was an unlawful search.

So anything you find is poison, so you can't use it to prove that.

This person had a such weren't for the house, yes, but the washing machine that is in the house doesn't count.

It wasn't reasonable.

I can't remember the specifics of the case, but it wasn't reasonable that whatever the weapon was, maybe it was drugs, whatever they were looking for, it was unreasonable.

And it would be in a washing machine.

Exactly, and the cops went in there and found it.

It was a pretty liberal decision, I would say, from the court's wild anyway, that has been tells from the DMS.

Thank you for submitting your questions.

Please continue to submit through my link tree.

We love hearing from you, and I love answering these questions.

Keep that Fourth Amendment comming, baby, really cool conversation today.

I love talking to Seth.

I love talking to you.

I love talking to you.

I love sort of jumping into like your We had very different like childhoods.

Just for sure.

For lots of reasons.

Yeah, for a lot of different reasons, like graphic, generational, Yes.

But I love sort of hearing a little bit about like that time capsule, that moment in time.

The notion that the street lights coming on was like an indicator of time.

I thought, everybody.

I never knew that before.

No street lights come on and you could see it like kids running home.

Oh shit, thee yes.

Yes, my parents didn't give a show where I was.

So I also wasn't that cool.

I wasn't anywhere.

I wasn't going here.

What do you mean, I don't know, I just I wasn't.

I wasn't like out you were.

I don't know you were anyway.

Thank you for joining us.

Thanks everybody.

This is Melissa albrand and I'm Michael Foot.

I'll see you in court.

This has been an Exactly Right production recorded at iHeart Studios, posted by me, Michael Foot and.

Me Melissa Albrant.

Our producer is CJ.

Ferroni.

This episode was edited by Nicholas Galucci.

Our associate producer is Christina Chamberlain and our guest booker is Patria Cottner.

Our theme song was composed by Tom Brievogel with artwork from Charlotte Dellery MNSA Lilac, with photography by Brad Obono.

Brief Recess is executive produced by Karen Kilgareff, Georgia hart Stark and Danielle Kramer.

You can find me on Instagram at Department of Redundancy Department or on TikTok at Michael Foot.

And I'm on both Instagram and TikTok as Melissa Malbranch.

Got legal questions, reach out at Brief Recess at exactlyrightmedia dot com.

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