So tell me about Rahul Mudgal.

So Rahul is a very good friend of mine, and in my opinion, one of the, if not the best fundraiser in the alternative investment world.

Rahul has raised just south of I don't want to get the number wrong, but I know he's just south of about $100,000,000,000 which in for the size fund he's working with, that's a pretty incredible number.

And what I love really is the ethos with which Rahul kind of approaches his work.

He pays it forward all the time, And he's incredibly good at just helping his friends in a million ways, especially when it comes to understanding what else is happening in the market and just educating people by way of sharing information in a systemic way that I've really never seen any single marketer do as effectively as Rahul does.

But that combined with the fact that he's just one of the best human beings I've ever met, it it becomes really a deadly combination when you put it all together.

I had to look it up.

A $100,000,000,000 is the larger than GDP of both Uzbekistan and Bulgaria.

Pretty good for one guy.

And you mentioned that he's systemically helpful.

How does he productize his value add to LPs?

He has access to an incredible amount of research.

And if you become part of his network, he's incredibly generous in that he shares all of this research with his network.

It's a fairly exclusive email club that I'm a part of.

But he is very, very disciplined about taking in information and sharing it with this group he's created in his email thread.

And it's research related sometimes broadly to categories like hedge funds or private equity.

Sometimes it's extremely narrow about subsectors that those particular funds are investing in.

It's a really wide range of things that he's supplying data on.

He's built this little machine that he manages himself, and it's incredibly valuable stuff.

I mean, it's it's really, really useful.

I've never in my career, I've never come across anyone who's doing this across such a wide swath of topics as systematically as Rahul is.

If you know Rahul, it's not really that surprising that of all the people I've met, he's the one doing it.

He's just incredibly generous with his Rolodex, with his time, with leads in terms of trying to be helpful to people, whether it's an LP looking for an interesting strategy that they need to add into their portfolio or someone in his network who maybe is in the middle of a job change and is trying to figure out where they're gonna go next.

Rahul is just really always there for the people in his network, and that's his main focus.

He's never really focused on selling.

He's mostly focused on how he can be helpful to the people around him, and then the selling just takes care of itself.

It's very impressive.

We both know a lot of generous people.

Not everybody have been able to translate into such such large businesses.

Is Rahul just playing a mid and long term game, or is he fundamentally doing something very different that other marketers are doing?

What I described is fundamentally different than what most marketers are doing.

And and it is 100% the long game.

It's not even the mid game.

He he's always really thinking, if I'm helpful, if I'm good to the people around me, I'm helpful to the people around me, and I take care of my network, my network will take care of me.

And I think that's the philosophy with which he approaches not just his work.

I think that's how Rahul approaches life.

Is it different than other marketers?

I think it's dramatically different than the vast majority of marketers.

I think the best marketers in the world are probably doing something that is closer to what Rahul is doing.

It's a it's a tough business.

There's a tremendous amount of pressure.

Fundraising is hard.

It takes you know, it's it's one of the longest sales cycles in our economy.

You don't have a meeting and get a ticket the next day.

It just doesn't work like that.

It takes a long time of getting to know people, building relationships.

And LPs want to track you generally for a period of time.

They wouldn't really get to know you.

It's definitely a long sales cycle.

But I have found too many marketers are really focused on what you can do for them instead of spending time understanding what is the LP's real need?

What is it that they're looking for?

I think some of the best sales advice I've ever gotten is to really approach selling more like how a doctor approaches diagnosing a problem.

They don't go in and say, well, here's everything you need to know about me.

Here is something I think you should be doing before they ask you any questions.

A doctor starts with questions.

And I think that the best salespeople in the world approach it more like a doctor than starting with their pitch.

It's tell me about yourself, tell me about your firm, what is it that you're trying to accomplish, where are you having problems.

Understand what the LP situation is first, and then you can find out, do they even need what I do?

It's very likely, in most cases, probably they don't.

So you're spending all this time pitching when you should be spending that time understanding.

And that that is definitely core to who Rahul is.

And I I think it's the piece that a lot of marketers really miss.

And it takes a certain amount of courage to do that because when you do that, you're oftentimes going for the no, as they say.

You're selling a hedge fund and you hear an LP say, right now the holes in my portfolio are in private credit or private equity.

Well, are things hedge funds don't do.

So you probably don't have a solution for what they currently need.

But if you at least knew what it was that they needed, you could then offer to make connections and be helpful to them, which will pay dividends down the road.

And look, everyone's portfolio is constantly evolving.

So they may not need you today, but it's great to have that relationship already built and solidified so that when they do have a need in an area where you can be helpful, they're thinking of you.

That that, in my opinion, is really the right way for fund managers and fund marketers to think.

I think a lot of human behavior could be explained through evolutionary biology lens.

And there's a famous, Capuchin monkey, study where they were giving Capuchin monkeys cucumbers in order to create ta to complete tasks, and then they started giving half of the monkeys grapes and the other half of the Capuchin monkeys would not actually eat the cucumbers.

They revolted and they said, I'd rather not eat than be treated unfairly.

So it's not it's even more than a human trait of fairness.

It's even deeper.

It's even more evolutionarily wired than us than than even at the homo sapien level.

It's really biological.

That's very interesting, and not really surprising.

We talk about this game selection, the game that Rahul plays, the game that top allocators play.

What game are you playing as the founder and CEO of iConnections?

The game iConnections is in is helping in as many ways as possible GPs and LPs build and scale their businesses.

And the thing that we are best at, and and it's where we started the business, is this cap intro area.

Because fundamentally, cap intro is where everything starts in relationship building for GPs and LPs.

First, LPs are interested in meeting GPs who can run money for them because they're trying to generate returns.

And for GPs, they're looking for AUM to add to their fund because their business is is running the money that's in that fund.

So that's where it started for us.

What we're now evolving into is a full blown investment platform.

So we are constantly thinking about ways that we can help the LPs build and scale their business and same thing on the GP side.

How can I help the GPs build and scale their business?

And throughout this process, throughout the investment process, there is a tremendous amount of interaction that takes place between these two parties.

So we're trying to find ways to just really help both sides make that process run more efficiently in whatever it is they're trying to do, whether it's additional meetings that are now taking place outside of events.

We started with a core focus on physical events.

But we have a whole roadshow module, for example, that helps the community get together outside of events when they're traveling around the world trying to meet each other.

We have an investor portal that enables them to share information and follow each other as returns are generated and as reports are created and they're trying to educate each other and share information with each other.

We have a meetup area within our system that enables GPs and LPs to just bring a group together.

We have this community of thousands of people now.

So as a center hub of this community, we're in a really good position to help people create educational moments, marketing moments, and bring them together on the fly in virtual settings.

That's what our meetup area of the platform is about.

So everything we do is really about helping these two primary constituents build their businesses.

And when you started iConnections, you had this large Rolodex of LP relationships, and you did what everybody is afraid to do, which is you basically gave them to the market and you started to compound that.

How difficult was that?

And what was the initial thesis on kind of giving up all your relationships to the community?

You know, I never I never really thought of it as giving up our relationships.

I I always thought of it as paying it forward, that if we if we created a community that enabled people to meet each other in a way that was useful to everyone in the community, that that would evolve into a good business.

And I I think we were right about that.

Actually, this guy right here, this little tombstone is the tombstone from the event that we used to start the business.

We started iConnections through a large global charity event in the height of the pandemic.

This was June of 'twenty.

And we brought together about 400 LPs and about 300 GPs.

Collectively, they did about 3,000 meetings.

And we did it all for free and donated all of the proceeds.

We did it free in terms of our time.

We charged the managers.

But what the managers paid, a 100% of that went to benefit food banks around the world.

And I'm sure you remember food insecurity was a huge issue in the midst of the pandemic.

So it was great to start that way because not only did we give away our relationships in the way you described it, but we also gave away all the money to the food banks.

But it was was such an amazing way to just make a bang in the industry really fast, really effectively.

It was done at a time when the industry was in desperate need of a new way to connect because it's such a face to face business and that opportunity didn't exist, especially at the start of COVID.

So it was a huge pay it forward moment for us.

And I just can't tell you how much that came back to us in spades.

A few months later, you know, on the back of that event, we realized, wow, there there's definitely a business opportunity here because the industry can't get together in person.

They clearly need a virtual platform.

They had a great experience in the Funds4Food event.

How can we now turn this into a business?

We were able to go right back to that community and we got a ton of great feedback as we built out our platform and a ton of early subscribers to the software.

So for us, it's very much the Rahul way of thinking.

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And I wanna double click something because I think it is actually mid a midterm game in that you have to have a long term perspective, but the fact that you've been able to scale this much in five years shows how quick, quote unquote, quickly long term games compound.

It's a paradox.

If you play long term games, they could compound much more quickly than people realize.

It might not happen six months.

It might not happen eighteen months, but it could happen in three to five years.

It's not like it's a game that could only be played in decades.

100%.

You can't see the connection of the dots moving forward.

I think in in the famous Steve Jobs talk, he kind of went through this, and he said, you can't you can only connect the dots looking backwards.

You can't really connect them moving forward.

Thinking about how to be helpful and just in general, playing the long game leads to opportunities that you could never possibly predict.

Playing the short game, you kind of always know where that's gonna get you because it's just it's more obvious.

It's a transaction.

So you know how much you're gonna make.

Sell something for 10,000,000, you know you're gonna make 500,000.

That's the the ceiling of what you could possibly make.

That's absolutely right.

And, like, an another example of where we played the long game.

As the tech platform began to, sort of take hold, a lot of other groups needed a tech solution for their events.

So we quickly pivoted and created a way for our tech platform to be used by other industry events.

We thought, hey, here's an event that's there.

And again, in the midst of COVID, all of these events were going through a really, really tough time.

For some, it was a near death experience for sure.

Having a tech platform that enabled them to do a virtual event really fast was a game changer for a lot of them.

I don't think we charged anyone.

I'm trying to think back, but I can't remember any of these events where we actually tried to make money on it.

We basically thought, hey, the event needs the help.

Our community wants to connect.

There's pretty big overlap between whatever that event is and our community.

Let's just find a way to do this and give it to them for free, because they probably don't have the budget for it.

Everyone's going through a tough time.

And again, it's just helpful to everyone and we can do it probably better than anyone else and do it fast.

It's not worth trying to figure out how we're gonna charge XYZ event to do this.

That became a whole element of the business that when we made those first few decisions, I never would have known where it was gonna lead.

Well, fast forward five years, we are on the cusp now of rolling out an annual meeting element to the platform.

So think about it.

We have about 1,100 funds who are or managers who are members of the platform.

A huge number of them are doing annual meetings.

And and the annual meetings AGMs.

COVID.

AGMs.

Exactly.

Those AGMs post COVID are more complex because there's a huge virtual element and there's the in person element.

Well, before COVID, there wasn't a lot of video at an AGM.

You showed up at the AGM, you attended, everyone attended in person.

There wasn't usually Maybe they did a conference call, but it was terrible.

Now these things have a much bigger production element to them than they did in the past.

People want to be able to attend virtually if they can't be there in person.

And they wanna have close to the same experience that you would have, which means you need multiple cameras, you need decent quality staging and lighting and audio and all the elements that go with creating a high quality production, which of course we do at all of our events.

So we thought, okay, we have the tech platform, we've done a lot of third party events now, we're really good at AV, why don't we create a business line to support AGMs?

Because we know it's probably close to 50% of our fund clients that are doing AGMs every year, or at least every other year, not every year.

That's an opportunity that we would not be in a position to do that had we not supported third party events.

And if we hadn't paid it forward and looked at doing that largely as a way to just be helpful to the community, we probably wouldn't be in a position to launch this thing that we're about to launch.

So again, it's hard to know where how it's all gonna come together, but in my experience, playing the long game is always it's really the only game.

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It's it's the brand, which I like to say the brand is the brand promise.

The successful kind of cycle with the customer of providing something, then being pleased with it, and then wanting to come back.

And oftentimes, if you're doing the right way, customers should be asking you for product extensions and should be saying, we would love to partner with you guys on the AGM.

Sometimes they are not able to conceptualize that, but it's the first product that you serve and having a wonderful experience for the customer that gives you this optionality of of providing new products.

And what you just said is literally what happened.

We a a client who heard, had experienced the event, saw how how well we run the Miami event in particular, and had their AGM coming up and thought, hey, why don't we ask iConnections to help with this?

We know they do third party events.

They have the tech platform.

They have the event know how and operations internally.

Why don't we approach them and see what they say?

So they did.

And we said, God, we'd love to do this because it'll give us a really solid pilot that we can build a whole new business line on.

So, yes, we are very, very good at staying close to our customers.

We are in incredibly good contact.

And the events that we do also create moments in time when we really get incredibly good face to face time with our customers over a couple day period.

Our New York event that we just ran earlier this month, it was 45 or 50 demos slash surveys with customers where we're really, like, clicking through screens and getting their input and saying to them, what do you like?

What do you not like?

And what what isn't even here that you wish we had?

All of those moments are incredibly value valuable when you're trying to build something that's ultimately gonna serve your clients in a more strategic way.

And it that like, all of that is not transactional at all.

It's really we're really trying to build as tight a relationship with that community and as useful a relationship for the community as possible.

One of the trends that I see is basically the podcast of conferences and conference leaders and conference organizing organizers realizing that that's essentially content.

So the the panel, instead of just making it kind of this traditional panel, making it interview style, are you finding that in iConnections, and is that one of the trends that that, you know, you foresee in your future?

It's funny.

We have a lot of content because, you know, we probably ran 50 to 60 sessions in Miami.

We probably had 25 to 30 in New York.

We'll do another 25 to 30 at our event in Singapore.

And even with all those, I find myself wishing we had more.

There seems to be an insatiable demand for these educational moments.

And we're in an interesting spot in that we really have the smartest people in the world on stage at our events.

The last event, the one person who really comes to mind as a huge name in our industry is Cliff Asness.

So Cliff did a little private session with a group of maybe 15 or 20 LPs.

And then he did a session on stage, incredibly well received.

And he's a brilliant guy.

The idea that if you're a kid in school and you're majoring in finance and you're interested in getting into the fund business, and now you can go to YouTube and listen to what Cliff thinks about what's happening in the market today.

And there are so many of those moments now available.

Like, the the amount of education you can get compared to when I was starting in the business.

I mean, it's really night and day.

The only place you could have that opportunity is if you went to the conferences, which of course early in your career, they're very expensive.

It's hard to do.

You probably can't even afford the flights and the rooms, let alone the ticket to the event.

But now YouTube has made it possible to share lots of social media platforms, but YouTube in particular has made it possible to really share this.

So for us, it is an absolutely critical component of our brand building and our growth.

We want the market to see our association with the smartest people in the world in this industry.

So definitely, I I am not personally a podcaster and I am but but the event is absolutely providing a form of what you're getting from, you know, the podcast industry.

As a matter of fact, and you should take advantage of this in Miami, we have a whole podcast studio that we set up at our Miami event.

We had a small version of it in New York.

But in Miami, we have it fully blown out, a desk, multiple cameras, you know, beautiful background, TV screens.

And we're encouraging people who want to create content at our event.

Take advantage of the fact that you have someone like a Cliff who's speaking at an event.

If you can convince him to jump on your podcast, the setup is right there.

You can just get in the seats and get right down to business.

We feel like there's just such a demand for all of this.

Anything we can do to help facilitate more of it, it's good for us.

It's good for our clients.

So, yeah, we're we're definitely leaning into it in a big way.

I I got to spend two hours with Cliff on a podcast that I did a couple months ago.

So I've been collecting questions for a second second shot.

You know, thing that comes to mind is the TED case study where they were a private organization, high end, very expensive, and then they did this paradoxical idea of of posting all their TED talks online.

And a lot of people thought it was a very risky move, they ended up getting hundreds of millions of views and growing the platform considerably.

So people don't just go to conferences for the content.

They also go for the community aspect as well.

For sure.

And what we're seeing is that the number of views taking place after the event is dwarfing the number of people who are watching the event live.

Many of our sessions have been posted online and gotten anywhere between thirty, forty thousand views all the way up to half a million views, you know, depending on what the topic is and and how pertinent it is to current events.

But it's it's really an incredibly powerful mechanism that I think if you're if you're at all in the content game, it's kind of crazy not to be leaning into it.

I I Ted obviously was way ahead of everyone else.

So I wanna really double click on value add to LPs.

You had an interesting conference in 2022 around crypto craze at the time.

So tell me about how LPs leveraged iConnections to learn more about crypto.

So when we think about content, the what, of course, comes to mind for everyone is who's on stage?

Is it a fireside chat?

Is it a panel discussion?

Is it a keynote presentation?

What we learned over time was that LPs really were viewing their one on one meetings.

And we do a tremendous number of on one meetings.

Our events have world class content on stage like many others.

But what's really unique to iConnections is the one on one meeting element of our events where we're running thousands and thousands of these at each event.

The LPs are using those meetings to educate themselves in every imaginable way.

They're using it to educate themselves on the market.

They're getting educated on specific investment strategies.

Referencing back to 'twenty two and what we saw in the crypto area.

Crypto was exploding in late 'twenty one, early 'twenty two.

Our event in January of 'twenty two saw we only had 17 fund managers that were in digital assets.

Those 17 funds collectively got over 800 meetings, meaning LPs agreed to meet with them, even though this was not at all considered to be an institutional category yet.

And I think even today, it's still not really an institutional category.

It's a whole lot closer, but but it's not quite there yet.

Well, back then, it was viewed as the Wild West.

LPs were not telling us they wanted digital assets, but then when we looked at the meeting counts and we saw that concentration, and we had never seen anything even close to that level of concentration with such a small number of funds achieving such a huge meeting count.

It became obvious to us that LPs were using those meetings to learn everything they could about Bitcoin, about meme coins.

You know, back then NFTs were still all the rage.

So they were running through these meetings absolutely just coming up to speed on how it all worked.

And we thought, wow.

That's really, really interesting.

And we actually quickly did a survey of LPs and said, hey, if we did a dedicated digital assets event, would you attend?

And the response was overwhelmingly yes.

And we actually ended up doing one for that year.

Unfortunately, later in the year, the bubble burst in crypto and then you had the whole FTX mess.

And so that was all a big setback.

But I think digital assets has absolutely rebuilt.

And now it's also being built in a much better, more sustainable and stronger way.

I think this administration is very focused on getting the right regulations in place so that you can invest safely and invest in it in ways that's much closer to how we all invest in stocks and bonds.

And I think that's the right way to go.

Our ability because of this meeting element to see where LPs are headed as opposed to what they looked at retrospectively is very powerful.

And we're working on multiple data products to really bake that into the iConnections platform so that we can be more helpful in predicting where the LPs are going next.

There's lots of platforms that will tell you, hey.

Here are the mandates that exist out there because LPs have said, yeah.

This is something I need in my portfolio.

Those things could be six to twelve months old.

They're not good indicators of what's coming up next and what the next mandate is gonna be.

But when we see how they behave in these meetings, it's very often that the meetings they take are different from what their mandates are at a given point in time.

Yeah.

800 LPs, 17 managers.

And I bet a large amount of those 800 LPs, like you mentioned, didn't have a mandate or couldn't even write a check.

And yet many of those ended up probably investing into some of those managers couple years later to kind of go back to long term aspect of it.

And also probably some of them that didn't even have a mandate somehow magically found a mandate if if there was a compelling enough meeting.

It kind of goes back to this principle that I that I use is you can't spend too much time with a billionaire or with a $100,000,000,000 institution.

No matter how much time you invest into large check writers, it's just efficient.

You could spend two, three years.

It's just much more efficient than trying to be transactional kind of with smaller investors.

There's just you really have to focus on the large check writers and really focus on, you know, putting in the time with those investors.

Absolutely.

And those are the check writers who can completely change the trajectory of your business.

If you get even if the check isn't the biggest check, just they're so well regarded in the marketplace, just getting any size check from them pretty much creates you know, it it's a vote of confidence on your business and on your investment strategy.

So I I completely agree with you there.

Look.

There is a place for getting the small checks.

So I'm not I'm not anti focusing on the small checks.

And kind of a combination of them is what I've seen work the best where you're you're building that long term relationship with a larger firm, and it's great to be able to say to them, hey.

Our AUM went up by $5,000,000 in the last quarter.

Hey, it went up by $10,000,000 in the last quarter.

And that can be coming through small checks.

All of that good news helps to influence that bigger player to continue continue to spend time with you, take you seriously, and, you know, hopefully, you can get something across the line.

There's a nuance there.

A lot of people say, don't worry about the size of the check.

But, course, if you take that to extreme, if you have a a $100,000,000 checks, it's just a difficult business to run.

Double click on what the most effective GPs do at iConnections that a lot of GPs do not do.

We'll get right back to interview.

But first, we're looking for the next great guest.

If you or someone you know is a capital allocator and would make for a great guest, please reach out to me directly at david@wisperdcapital.com.

So the number one thing is they put in the time.

This is an event where you're doing the average fund did about 20 meetings at our event in Miami this year.

And collectively in that event, we ran about 19,000 meetings.

So it's an enormous event.

The funds that do the best are the ones who put in the time in the lead up to the event.

So the event was in late January.

We opened our software, making it possible for GPs and LPs to see each other in the software.

That opened in, like, mid to late November.

The GPs who got the most meetings are generally speaking, the ones who, as soon as the system opens, they're already completely set up in the system.

They purchased access to the event a month ahead of time.

They loaded their returns and all their materials into the system so that when that system opens, they're ready to go.

And then as soon as it opens, they're in there looking at which LPs are coming, using the filters to determine, okay, who are the ones that are really a fit for me?

And then sending meeting requests to those LPs, hoping that LPs will see those requests, confirm meetings with them, and then they get to go make more requests.

We limit the number of requests so LPs aren't overwhelmed.

But you basically once a request is either declined or confirmed, a GP gets that credit back, if you will, and they can go make another request.

So they are generally working with 50 to 100 of these at any given point.

You'd be shocked at how many GPs spend.

This is not an inexpensive proposition.

Our software is expensive.

The event is expensive.

A lot of them don't really spend the time in the system doing the work, sending the meeting requests.

And then in early January, we start to get the panic phone calls.

Hey.

I don't have any meetings.

And then we go and look, and we say, well, you sent five requests.

You have a 100.

Go go send the other 95, and then we'll take a look at where you are.

And, of course, you know, we have client success department that helps people to navigate the software.

And we want people to come and have a good experience.

But it's ultimately on the GPs to do this work.

Now the LPs are in there doing their own work as well.

And the LPs may also go through the system and say, hey, here are the 20 people that I wanna meet.

They send their own requests.

Most of those requests, of course, are gonna get confirmed because people are always happy to get a request from an LP.

But but this it like, this is not rocket science.

It is not complicated.

It's really just a matter of staying on top of it.

It's the hard work of the lead up to the event and making sure that you're organized and every day you're in the system looking at, okay, who accepted my request?

Who didn't accept my request?

You know what?

These requests are now a week and a half old.

They feel stale.

I'm just gonna withdraw them all and send a whole new batch of requests.

The the marketers who are really on top of all of these elements, they're the ones who leave having gotten twenty, thirty, 40 meetings.

I mean, we had some funds last year who achieved fifty, sixty meetings.

And at that level, you're having to send multiple teams usually because you can't possibly do them all in two days.

The cap intro element is just two days long.

So it it's it's really taking the lead up to the event very, very seriously.

If you do that, you're gonna have a great experience.

I mean, we there's too many LPs for you not to have a great experience.

If you come and you do the basic behaviors and you really try and you don't get meetings, it's almost always because performance has really been bad.

If your performance is just not good in your peer group, it can be tough.

There's no, you know, there's no denying that.

But if you if you come and you do the basics more often than not, you're gonna leave this event pretty happy because you've got we always make sure there's more LPs than GPs.

Last year, we had 25 more LPs than we did GPs.

So it was a very healthy ratio between the two groups.

And and GPs came away thrilled.

I mean, the number of positive comments, emails, text messages that I got coming out of this Miami event was off the charts.

I mean, very, very few GPs came away feeling sad.

But I'm telling you, ninety five percent of the time when a GP is sad, it's it's always because they just didn't do the basics.

You go to iConnections.

You have a great first meeting.

Let's say it's 10 out of 10.

What's the right cadence and strategy to build that relationship post conference?

My advice would always be move at the pace that the LP is comfortable with.

If you're using our software to if you're using the investor portal, you can keep your information in front of that LP Because if you've had a meeting with them, the LP now has a folder in their side of the investor portal for your fund.

So every time you load a market update, a performance update, whatever whatever information you think is useful for LPs to see, you can put it into the system, and it will stay in front of the LP.

That's, like, the bare minimum.

At least quarterly, you wanna be trying to get in front of that LP again.

They're not gonna meet with you quarterly, but I think it's important that you're at least trying to get in front of them quarterly.

It's definitely a business where you should never ever be offended.

People are super busy.

LPs in particular are being approached from so many different angles.

It's really hard to break through that noise.

And and also, every time you come back to another iConnections event, if it's someone that you really clicked with, do another meeting with them at the next iConnections event.

Some of the bigger funds who attend our events, a third of their meetings are usually existing investors.

The process of getting together is so efficient because everyone gets you know, we do the calendaring for you.

Every meeting is a half hour long.

It becomes a great moment to just touch base with an audience that you're trying to stay connected to.

So it's not all new relationship discovery.

I mean, that's the biggest component.

But every event, you should absolutely be trying to reconnect with people that you thought you had a good moment with.

So I would say definitely use the investor portal to keep your materials in front of them.

Absolutely try and get together with them in person quarterly.

We have a roadshow module in the system which you can use to help you organize any meeting around the world.

These can be virtual.

They can be in person.

You know, it can handle both.

But that feels like a reasonable cadence.

And then don't ever get upset no matter how much you feel ignored.

That's just the nature of the beast.

And there are lots of stories of folks who thought, god, this is never going anywhere.

But then the moment was right for the LPs portfolio, and then you get a call because you've really made an effort to stay in front of them, and you never get upset when they're too busy to to meet with.

Try not to have any of your follow ups be sales.

Try to make it be as educational as possible.

To to your point about Rahul, even if it isn't directly in your space, try to make some connections or some other useful thing that rewards the LP essentially for taking that meeting.

Yes.

Yeah.

Absolutely.

I'm sure you're thinking about AI these days.

How does that impact the business?

I don't think there's a business on the planet that won't be impacted by AI.

For sure, AI is going to have a huge impact on this market.

I think when it comes to manager selection in particular, AI is going to be hugely helpful.

We're working on a variety of things to make it easier.

I mean, one of the more basic things that we're trying to do is really to just create a chatbot interface so that you don't have to become an expert in how to use the filtering side of the platform.

So you could just talk to the system and say, you know, show me private equity funds from this size to that size, this longer track record, etcetera, and it'll give you that result.

That's a much more user friendly way than having to know how to filter on each one of those things.

It's the filters we we have, like, 90 fields you can filter on, but it's kind of complicated to do it.

So that's one way we see it, you know, where we intend to use AI to make the system better.

The the one idea that comes to mind is if we could get clients comfortable to put their portfolio data or at least part of their portfolio data into the system so that the system knew, okay, here's the mix of funds you have.

We could use AI to analyze that and then say, okay, Based on who's attending the next event, you should consider meetings with these 20 firms because here's how they might be able to help your portfolio.

I haven't seen anyone do that yet.

Now it's harder to do because you have to get the you have to have the confidence of the LPs that they're comfortable sharing their portfolio data.

Some probably will just never share their portfolio data because some are really, really protective of it.

But others, depending on what kind of organization you are, your portfolio might even be in the public domain.

So you're probably less concerned about it.

Of course, all of this is gonna be done with high levels of security and protection.

But it's still an area where I think it's gonna take LPs a while to get comfortable with it.

We even on the GP side, by the way, we have begun to use AI to create summaries of the fund manager for the LP to make the LP's life easier when they're coming in and looking at managers.

But we asked the manager's permission before we loaded any of their data into the AI tool.

Just knowing there's a high degree of sensitivity, we wanted to make it clear we weren't training anything on any of their data.

A big challenge in our industry is the way in which the data is presented to the investors is really, really important, especially for alternatives.

When you fall into the unregulated category like most alt managers do, there are really serious rules that you can't you don't want to run afoul of.

So the way your information is presented to investors is really, really important.

We're working on building tools to deal with all that so that the GPs can feel, not feel, but actually be in control of that.

You couldn't just throw your stuff into ChatGPT and have ChatGPT present it however it wants to prospective investors.

So that would be really, really bad in the world of investing because the regulators are gonna look at you and say, wait a second.

The okay.

Great.

You tried to use AI to make this whole experience better, but it said things to investors that you should never say.

You know, you can't do that.

So in other industries that aren't as heavily regulated and where the impact isn't as big financially for people, you could definitely experiment more.

There's no question there is huge value that can be added, but we have to be really careful about how it's done because we can't we can't put GPs or LPs in a situation where we're really on the edge from you know, in in in terms of complying with the regulations.

The the regulations are here for a reason.

There's a lot of really interesting datasets with whether it's Burgess or Atapar and and some even, like, PreQin, and these platforms are trying to kinda predict where LPs are trying to invest in.

Have you ever looked at partnerships with those service providers?

We've definitely thought about it.

We have a lot more partnership interest now that we're bigger and we're so dominant in the cap intro phase of the investment cycle.

It was a lot harder in the beginning.

I find with partnerships, it's really tough to partner with firms who are very different in size.

Partnering with groups that are comparable size, it just feels easier to me because everyone has a vested interest, and there's not one player who feels super dominant over the other player.

Look, we could be an amazing partner to a number of these firms because the thing we have that no one else really has is an unbelievable amount of meeting data.

So all of those systems you mentioned can look at clicks and search data and things like that, but we can tell you which GP met which LP for the last 100,000 meetings.

I mean, that's really, really unique data that I I can't really think of another organization that could possibly have as much of that data as we do in the institutional world.

There are probably groups that might have it in retail.

We don't play in retail at all.

We're really institutionally focused.

But institutions are where all the money is in all.

And and retail, not to diss retail, it's an exciting growth area for the for the industry.

But the vast 90% of assets, probably 95% of assets are really institutional assets.

The meetings are the leading indicator or just slightly upstream to actually investing.

And that's one thing that I always tell GPs is that if an LP keeps on taking meetings with you, it's a very strong signal because they're so constrained in their time.

It's arguably their most valuable asset, especially for the larger organizations.

It's almost more valuable than than a small check.

What do you wish that people in the industry would better understand about iConnections, and what misconceptions do you wish people didn't have about about CapIntro, about iConnections?

So our I think we're starting to make real progress on this, but the we started in COVID as a digital platform because you couldn't do an in person event.

So all the connections that we were that we made over those first two years were mostly through our platform.

Well, when the world reopened, there was such pent up demand to get together in person.

Our event series just exploded, like, right out of the gates.

Our first event, we ran 8,000 meetings.

This was in '22 at the Foul Blow.

We ran 8,000 plus meetings.

We had 2,300 attendees, a load of speakers, super high quality.

It it was an event that it was not normal for a first time event to look the way that event did.

Fast forward to today, our event this year, 5,500, 5,200, somewhere in there attendees.

We ran 19,000 meetings.

We had 50,000,000,000,000 in assets represented in that event.

Just leaps and bounds bigger than the first one.

Super exciting.

But the success that we've had with the event means a lot of the marketplace thinks of us purely as an event business.

And we're really not.

The reason we are where we are is very much the software.

If we didn't have the software platform making it possible for this size audience to orchestrate all of these meetings and really facilitate these meetings, the events would never be as successful as they are.

We, a lot of times, have to educate the market on the fact that we are not just an event business.

We're really a software business at the core.

And what we're starting to make real headway with is demonstrating to this industry that we can become and we really are becoming a full blown investment platform.

Ultimately, if we can get you in into that first meeting moment, the cap intro moment, there's no reason why we shouldn't be able to keep you throughout the investment life cycle.

We then wanna help you with diligence.

We wanna help you maintain that relationship ongoing through things like roadshows and meetups and the investor portal.

We want to help you with your transactions by digitizing your sub docs and help you through redemptions and quarterly updates, annual updates, however frequent you want to do them.

So we have the customer base.

We're starting from a position of real strength because we have so many GPs and LPs.

And these are the most prominent GPs and LPs.

I mean, the folks who are members of the platform, who are attending our events, are running as I said, it's a it's a huge asset base, and they really are regarded as the best in the world.

How do we carry that success in the first phase of the investment cycle all the way through the balance of the investment cycle.

Sometimes it can be frustrating that people associate us so much with events.

But let's face it, this isn't the worst spot for us to be in.

Having the best firms in the world already on our customer list is a huge advantage.

So then because really the problem we have to solve is really one of adoption.

I already have them as customers.

Now I just have to figure out the right way in the right moment to expose them to other things we can do for them and and help them with.

And that's totally happening.

Like, we have somewhere between 500 and a thousand LPs are in our software every month regardless of events.

So it's totally happening where the the client base is starting to see other things that they can do in the software.

Well, it might be the wrong time to ask, but what events do you have coming up that people should be aware of?

That's hilarious.

That's I I will never walk away from a moment to plug our next event, David, so all good.

So the the next big event for us is Singapore in November.

So and that event, we're we're really excited about the Singapore market because there is so much wealth creation in Asia.

And, you know, knock on wood, hopefully, the Trump administration figures out a way to resolve the trade dispute with China, and we we get to a good place for both countries.

Assuming that happens, there is no doubt in my mind that our event in Singapore will someday probably be bigger than the event we have in Miami.

As it stands today, there's no question The US has the biggest base of investors in the alts world.

But with all the growth in China and Singapore and Vietnam and Japan, Japan has actually become a really popular place in the last six months.

This event, we we are trying to educate that region on how a cap intro event works and why GPs and LPs should attend.

We've made huge progress, by the way, with the LPs.

The LPs in Asia love the event.

They love the format.

They get the joke.

You know, they're coming now, and they're using it the same way the LPs in The US are using it in in Europe.

The GPs have been a harder sell, but we're starting to see the ice thaw there.

And I part of it too was, you know, China has gone through a tough couple of years.

A lot of the strategies in Asia really have been out of favor.

China, you know, obviously dominates Asia, and Chinese based strategies just haven't been in favor with with US investors.

I think as all of that starts to change, we'll start to see more Asian based GPs come to this thing.

And there's no reason why we can't be doing 20,000 meetings with firms in Asia as well.

I mean, are plenty of them.

And we're also seeing, you know, in in the early days, the investors in Asia were really liquidity focused.

They didn't want illiquid strategies.

We're starting to see that change, but it's a process.

For sure, they still value liquidity, and I expect that's probably going to be that way for a while longer.

But we're completely 100% committed to that part of the world.

And I suspect in a few years, you're gonna see big movement on the numbers there.

Can emerging managers raise in Singapore?

And talk to me about kind of raising money in a different geography.

Yeah.

I would say in our experiences, Asia is very open to all size fund managers.

We we have a really broad cross section of fund managers coming to the Asia event.

Much more so if I have to compare it to a region, I'll compare it to The Middle East.

The Middle East, I find, is still much more brand focused than Asia is.

In The Middle East, the flows, in my opinion, are still skewed towards the biggest brands in the world.

And, you know, it's also very much a relationship part of the world.

It's true.

You know, relationships are the big driver in The Middle East.

And the biggest funds have been there longer, and they've spent the time to build those relationships.

Asia, I find to be really entrepreneurial and very open to like, I I think all size of funds have had a good experience at our event in Asia.

I don't know if that would have been as true in The Middle East.

Now if you're a small fund based in The US and you're mostly focused on a US investment strategy, until you're, call it, $4,500,000,000, I don't think it's really a good use of your time to spend the time and money to go over and do an event in Asia.

But if you're Asia based or even Europe based, Middle East based, it's more accessible, you know, from a time one standpoint.

You're you just it's easier to deal with investors in Asia from those places.

So I would feel more comfortable recommending it to firms in those parts of the world.

Once you cross 500,000,000, it's a real business.

You've got real traction.

You're considered you're definitely on a path to be institutional grade once you're at 500,000,000.

And I think everyone is starting to take you more seriously.

So at that point, I think it becomes worth it and definitely over a billion.

The principle that I've always applied is if if you go to geography prepared to commit to it to for a minimum of ten years until you penetrate that.

Is do you agree with that?

A 100%.

I think you probably could say be prepared to commit for at least five years.

You're gonna start to see progress in five years.

If you have if you have a solid strategy, a solid business, you've achieved critical mass of AUM, you're north of 500,000,000, I would expect you to make some headway in five years or less.

And then presumably as you scale, you could bring in IR folks or capital formation folks to kind of take over the relationship.

But in terms of the founders of the firms, you know, minimum five years, ideally ten years per region.

Absolutely.

I I think you start by just going to a handful of events and see how it clicks for you and and your strategy, see if there's an appetite for it.

But once you've established that there is, it's not really that hard to add people.

I mean, we're also used to working remotely now.

You don't even necessarily need an office in a region to to penetrate the region and make some progress.

So many people are working from home now.

You could add a person in Asia, a person in The Middle East, a person in in Europe.

That's not a huge investment.

You know?

You can do that and make enormous progress compared to everyone being based, you know, in New York 12, you know, 12 time ones away from Hong Kong or Singapore.

We have an LPU relationship.

We're gonna spend the weekend with them, and we talk about kind of the scalability of once a year, like memorable experiences.

We're going to like a football game and doing dinner with the wives and every everybody, but I think people underestimate what once a year trip to a Singapore and meeting, having dinner, You know, I know you guys put on, like, a concert and and special events going to one of those.

Like, how quickly those could scale, although they feel very unscalable because you're spending twenty four, thirty six hours, but doing that once a year could be quite powerful.

If you if you're not doing that, you're probably not gonna make any progress.

I mean, at our events, we have different elements.

The one on one meetings are the you know, that's the thing we're best known for.

But there are a ton of dinners, a ton of parties.

Some of them we're helping to facilitate.

Some the clients are just doing on their own.

We do the, you know, we did the concert in Miami.

We've done smaller versions of it in Singapore.

Those are all moments for people to just spend time together and hang out in a less formal, you know, less work oriented way.

It's just a chance for people to hang out and get to know each other and become friends.

If you're not on a tour annually where you're touching base with your relationships in a region, at least once a year where you're grabbing dinner, lunch, things like that, you're you're probably not gonna make any headway.

If you're not willing to make at least that commitment to it and in the beginning, it's the founders who need to be there.

You know?

Once once you've achieved more critical mass, you know, when you're over a billion, you can probably get away with the founders doing it less, but but someone has to be dedicated to really building those friendships.

And that's really how I think of it.

It's like once you have friends in a region, you can start to make progress.

But if you don't if you don't do the work to make friends, it's pretty unrealistic, I think, to assume you're gonna somehow build a business there.

Ron, this has been a masterclass on how to build networks, how to how to literally attract trillions of dollars in in LPs.

Thanks for jumping on the podcast and look forward to maybe not Singapore, but maybe Miami next year.

Sounds great.

We'd love to have you there.

And, David, thank you again for, for the invite.

It was great to be with you today.

Thanks for listening to my conversation.

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