Hi.

I'm Laura Vanderkamp.

I'm a mother of five, an author, journalist, and speaker.

And I'm Sarah hart Hunger, a mother of three, practicing physician, writer, and course creator.

We are two working parents who love our careers and our families.

Welcome to best of both worlds.

Here we talk about how real women manage work, family, and time for fun.

From figuring out childcare to mapping out long term career goals.

We want you to get the most out of life.

Welcome to best of both worlds.

This is Laura.

This episode is airing in early to mid December of twenty twenty five.

We are going to be talking the holidays.

We've run a great many holiday episodes over the years, but it is a fun and festive time of year.

We want people to enjoy it.

We're not big on the whole simple the holidays thing.

That's not really our jam around here.

However, we do want people to maximize the fun and minimize the fuss, so the topics we're going to talk about today are aimed along that.

However, before the holidays are upon us, we have another fun, festive celebration coming up.

Sarah has a book coming out next week called Best Laid Plans, and it is a great system for planning the life you want.

But Sarah, maybe you can tell us a little bit more about it in your pre order bonuses.

Yeah, so it comes out in just seven days.

I'm so excited.

The full title is Best Laid Plans, a simple planning system for living a life that you love.

So you know, that's pretty self explanatory, but it is a whole system packed into a book, which I don't see all that often, and I'm really excited to hear how people implement various parts of that.

And so I actually thought a really fun pre order bonus would be and is a PDF checklist that really incorporates all of the parts of that system, so people can decide to kind of check that off as they're doing their planning and their own variations, as there's places on that pdf to like dot grid space to record your own spin on things.

And it's really pretty and kind of matches the aesthetics of the book and Bestlaid Plans and all that.

So if you would like this PDF for free and you've pre ordered the book, you can get that at the shoe box dot com slash pre Orders I'm also including an invite to a free webinar we're holding in mid January.

It's going to be all about planning, some tips, and then i'll take Q and a about the book, and so anybody who pre orders is invited to that as well.

So yeah, if you are interested in buying the book, I highly encourage you to just get.

That order in.

It's available anywhere the books are sold.

And this is my very first launch, so I have no idea what to expect, but I am on call the week of the launch.

Yeah.

So the website, in case people didn't get it's the and then shoe is SHU like Sarah's initials, So the shoebox dot com slash pre order.

And people may be wondering, Sarah, if they listen to you every week here and at best laid plans, what are they getting in the book that they're not getting there?

Yeah, the book is just entirely comprehensive.

It's the only place that really has all of the tools that I suggest in one place.

I also include more personal vignettes, some interesting ones.

I mean, I'm not saying there's like juicy stuff in there that's really crazy, because I still have to live in this world, not going to share anybody else's secrets, but I do get fairly personal around a few things as well, So it's.

Like one tenth narrative and then.

Ninety percent instructive and kind of gives you lots of use examples as well.

The last chapter is all vignettes of real people who have put my system into place and the different spins that they have made on best laid plans, because I do teach a system, but one of the things I teach is that your planning needs are going to change, They're going to iterate, and they can really be customized.

So I think that last chapter really speaks to you.

Yeah, this is really the modern day getting things done.

If people have read day it Alan, Sarah's got a comprehensive system as well, and it's definitely tailored to people who have busy lives, work, family, lots of responsibilities, So you're definitely going to want to check that out.

Sarah, Are you doing anything to celebrate.

No, not as of now.

I was at my book club last night and they were like, why are we not throwing you a party?

And I'm like, I don't know, so we might kind of have our January book club have a little party element, so maybe we'll do that.

But other than that, just planning.

On if there are opportunities to talk locally and stuff, I'll definitely let everybody know about those things, and I'll celebrate it by cheering loudly as I take call the week of the release, because that's I mean, hey, that's my books written as someone who is also doing the constraints of a regular job.

So in a way, maybe it's exactly well.

I encourage you to check that out.

Definitely get your copy of Best Laid Plans.

If you do it this week, you get your pre order bonuses.

But obviously good bye the book whenever I think you're really going to you love it.

So this episode is mostly about other festivities about the holiday season.

We definitely believe this season can feel festive and fun even for you.

We think with good planning, it's possible to do fun stuff, including stuff that is fun for you, and have open space alongside various traditions and obligations, like it's kind of fun to get into some of the holiday stuff.

I was sending Sarah pictures of So my husband's office has had their Christmas party, low these many years, right, I have gone with him to umpteen holiday parties for his office at this point, and I will admit that sometimes it's a bit of an obligation.

But this year they decided to do a Roaring twenties party, and I was like, you know what, I am just going to go all out.

So I have purchased myself a flapper dress, the flapper head dress.

Yes, the flapper gloves.

It's gonna be great.

Sarah, it is gonna be great.

I think a festive outfit does mean a lot, so I'm thinking about it.

I ordered a dress because I have something upcoming that it might be a holiday dress, but I have in my mind I need like a holiday jumpsuit.

So stay tuned, because you know, I do have a couple of work parties and like they would probably be more fun if I showed up in like a crushed velvet red or green jumpsuit.

Jumpsuits are a lot of fun.

I enjoyed them.

They're like different and all that.

The only issue, of course is the bathroom.

Yeah, you know what, as someone who pumped and stuff, like, does it really matter that I'm like pulling my top down to go to.

The bathroom, like, not really, it's fine.

I saw a meme as somebody was like, everyone compliments you on your cute jumpsuit, but then in the bathroom, it's just you and your choices.

It's true, you need to make someone snaps on the bottom, but that might be a lot of It's like a onesie for adults.

So one of the things we always suggest people do is make a holiday list.

And obviously people celebrate a wide variety of holiday traditions this time of year, but even within sort of secular context, there are many sort of community activities and light displays and all of those that do not necessarily have any particular faith at the core of them.

It's just sort of a time that everyone celebrates, especially places where it is dark and cold, a little bit of coziness and light and things like that.

So many things to avail yourself of.

Sarah, what's on your holiday fun list this year?

Yes, well, it is a Nutcracker year.

We tend to do Nutcracker every other year or so.

It just feels a little too much to do it yearly.

But we are planning and I actually just sent some friends the dates, so we're scheduling that I always need to watch Elf and Home Alone.

Those are my two favorite.

Actually, I like the Charlie Brown Christmas Special too, so I'd say those are That's my holiday trifecta of movies.

And we do a family honic a party usually at my in laws.

There's latkas, and we do gifts for the kids.

But I think this year we should add a book exchange for the adults because everyone reads in this group, and I just think that would like I don't usually always get anything, and just even getting like a book will I think make things and buying a book for one of my adult relatives will make things a little bit more fun.

So, yeah, what about you?

Well, that sounds fun, Like would you pull names out of a hat, like who you're supposed to buy for?

It's not even like that many people, but even if it's six or seven, that that makes for an exchange.

Yeah, no, that could be a very good exchange.

I like that idea.

That's fun.

Yeah, no, I'm I have a couple.

I have a long list.

Honestly, you know, we've been in this community for fourteen years now, and you start to have a lot of things that are going to happen this year.

I'm singing in multiple Christmas concerts.

I will go to Longwood Gardens.

We're going to do Dutch Wonderland in terms of holiday light displays.

We are going to go ice skating.

I believe I will probably take a trip to Winter Tour, which is a decorated mansion around here, one of the old families, you know.

Anyway, they do up the estate very well for Christmas, and I haven't been to that in a couple of years, so I'm probably going to go to that one.

There's my husband's holiday party as always.

I think I am taking some children to the Nutcracker and some children to potentially the Rackets.

I thought maybe this wouldn't be a racket year, but some people want to go into New York, so we may as well go.

See It's only like an hour and a half anyway, and other people will be going skiing during that time, so it'll all be a split and we will travel after the holidays as well.

But the thing of making a long list like that is like, oh my gosh, is this going to be overwhelming?

It is not overwhelming because I mapped out like all the time between basically November twentieth, which is when a lot of these displays go up and January eleventh, which is when most of them have come down, and some are shorter within that, not everything stays open till the eleventh, are opens on the twentieth.

But between that overlap, I mean, this is almost two months worth of time, So we're really only talking like one, maybe two extra activities each week until then, and that makes it feel a lot more doable when you map it out that way, as opposed to be like I got to do all this the first week of December, because you will not do it all the first week of December.

So, Sarah, let's talk gifts.

Well, I guess we could take a quick ad break and then we will be back talking gifts of this holiday season.

Well, we are back talking all things the holidays.

So, Sarah, you mentioned the gift exchange for adults in your extended family for Hanukkah.

Now you do all eight nights of presence though for the kids, right, what's your strategy there?

We do?

I mean I usually try to have family gifts fill in some of those gaps.

So if my parents send something that's a night, if my sister sends something that's a night, somehow my in laws don't always end up in that rotation because if the honka party is not during the eight nights, then it doesn't end up in there.

Doesn't try to during the eight nights.

It's set outside of it.

You gotta have something for every eight night.

I don't know the party.

Well, sometimes the calendar doesn't work out that way because you know what, we can go there on a weekend, that would leave one weekend and like, you.

Know, maybe it works and maybe it doesn't, maybe we're on call.

Who knows.

But my kids have made their power points, as we discussed on a prior episode, and I am going to do a Google sheet this year for relatives.

I made the mistake of just sending them a list of links and texting the same list to multiple people and then with like oopsie, because what happens people buy the same things for your kid, and then I mean it was my fault.

So fixing that this year where it's a Google sheet and if you buy it, you fill in the square and you bought it and now it's gone or I can delete it, or they can see that someone else got it.

So I mean, I don't want things to be too transactional.

But if my kids are gonna get gifts, hopefully they'll get things that they're interested in.

So yeah, that's going to be our system for this year.

And I do think we will do a lot of our We'll make our spreadsheet ourselves in terms of probably there'll be a tab for like each night and each kid and what they'll get, and we'll do some of that shopping over Black Friday.

So by the time this airs, hopefully we have I mean, honestly, Hanaka starts in like five days from the episode airing today, so hopefully we've already procured everything.

We do not always wrap our gifts, so that's a step we get to skip.

We just kind of ceremoniously bring it out of the closet in a box or bag.

Or something like that.

I like it, Yeah, and it works.

Well, that works.

I mean, if you're doing one a night, like, it doesn't have to be in a pile of wrapped things, right, I mean, it's just a.

I mean some people do or they'll bring out a round thing every night.

I don't know.

My husband probably did grow up with wrapping.

My parents are so pragmatic and there was no wrapping, but there was still a ton of joy in my gifts.

I mean, there was a picture of.

Me getting this Neon pink and Aqua boom box when I was about nine, and I'm holding it up and I remember how excited I was to get that boom box.

I do not think it was wrapped.

It might have been like in a shopping bag in the box, but like then I pulled it out of the box and you could see this Panasonic box.

I'm like, it did not take away one iota from the joy.

So I guess I've just carried that lazy tradition forward.

And do you work to spend like the same amount for each kid?

Yeah, I mean to the dollar.

No, it's not like we're like, here's your gift card for the balance, but we definitely try to make it.

We make it like more or less pretty close per kid.

Yeah yeah, yeah, what about you?

So I really had a goal this year of making more of the holiday list ahead of time, like mid November, and you know, sat down and talked with people at least got the kids thinking about it, making their lists, because the idea was to do this shopping a bit more mindfully, like to go into Black Friday sales, for instance, with a list of what I intended to purchase for everyone, so that if it was a sale, it's legitimately a sale.

Then right, You're not buying something you didn't intend to You are buying something you intended to buy for less than you intended to pay, which is the way that a sale should be.

Yes, and so also just to avoid that sort of sense of like I gotta get something, I gotta get something, I wanted to do it mindfully, So that has been the general thing.

It doesn't wind up being the same amount for each kid, partly because older kids tend to do bigger things or want bigger things, whereas Henry, the gifts could be huge, like toys are often big, but they don't cost as much.

Right, the problem is that Genevieve has discovered American Girl, so there goes.

They do cost a lot.

Yes, yes, that is true.

We went through that phase for a while and those were some expensive presents, but an American Girl doll is a lot less than an iPhone.

Let's put it there a way, okay, fair.

We'll probably be doing some trips.

My husband often likes to get a ski trip with his brother as a Christmas present that they can take a ski trip to gather somewhere and then I think there might be a diving trip involved, but I think he will wind up taking two of our children with that.

But sort of the idea that they can all go dive together would be a gift that they might have as well.

Hopefully they're not listening to this.

I don't think they are.

Who wants to listen to their mom anymore than they have to Sarah.

It's true some of my children read my blog, but I don't think any of them listen to my podcasts.

Yeah, I don't think it's the you know me or like YouTube shorts.

I think YouTube shorts are going to win out on that every single time.

But if you're making your giftless like things like shopping rapping, if you do that, all of this does take time, and so one of the best things you can do to make the holidays feel less frantic is to understand Santa's elves need time in the workshop, and likewise, you need time blocked into your schedule for these things.

So if you are going to be shopping for gifts, I mean obviously if you're shopping in person, that is in a calendar block of time that has to happen, So where could that go?

Even if you are shopping online, though it can't like all just squeeze into the margins.

You probably want to be doing it more mindfully, which means you have a chunk of time where you're like executing on this, this and this gift and making sure that they are coming.

Rapping obviously is something that can be outsourced if you happen to have, for instance, a babysitter or nanny who wouldn't mind coming an hour early, like if they normally pick your kids up at school, they want to come an hour early and wrap.

That is a very easy way to get this off your plate.

I fit is not something you particularly enjoy, but just to remember that this work does take time and so you can't just not block it in.

Then you're gonna be doing it late at night or on weekends when you hope to be doing something else.

Yeah, the way to make it less stressful is to admit that it actually takes time and like schedule it because doing in the margins it probably not only does like take the fun away, but it's going to feel like a burden.

That's the last thing you want.

Yeah.

Now, obviously travel can be a component of the holidays.

Probably if you're traveling somewhere big, you've thought of that by now, But even if you haven't, there might be some day trips you could ponder taking, especially if your kids have a particular amount of time off from school, which we will get to in a second.

But I mean, you guys are traveling over the holidays, right, Sarah.

Yeah, we almost always travel over at least one of the week's, usually Christmas week.

We do all the things you're not supposed to do, like travel a few days before Christmas because it's very popular, and then take connecting flights and it has backfired.

We got stuck last year, but thankfully on the back end and not on the way there.

And it's such a fun tradition for us that we just risk it at this point.

Yeah, usually you're skiing.

Yeah, that's our big Montana trip.

We love it.

Yeah.

Yeah, No, they've really made a tradition out of that too, And we're going to be doing our big trip sort of post Christmas.

But I think we're also, as I mentioned, going to go into New York.

That there'll be a day trip at least into New York, and then some of the other light display things are enough distance away that it kind of becomes a day sort of experience.

If you're driving an hour somewhere and then being there for two three hours and coming back, it's much of a day.

So think about where these can go in.

But the key thing to enjoying your holidays is to remember that if you have kids, there's a good chance that they are off school for some chunk of time, and some chunk of this time happens whether you're celebrating Christmas or not, it happens after Christmas, and that can be a tough week.

Right the week between Christmas and New Year's they've already gotten their presence.

Hopefully they'll play with them for a while.

But yeah, we are definitely going to schedule for some outings and some social time, because if I just left that as like, oh, we're all going to relax, or like my fantasy, oh we're all going to organize the house like it's just going to be a disaster, and then we're going to look back and have no memories except for maybe the kids playing a lot of video games.

And I just I am already thinking I mean, as we record this episode, we're not even in December yet, and yet I'm like, what are we doing this day?

What are you doing this day?

I'm already starting to think about it.

So I highly encourage you to really give, especially if you have younger kids, to like give conscious thought to those days and maybe consider having an anchor at least for each one.

Yeah.

Now, obviously, if you are not off work for all of those days, and in many cases it's a lot of days, hopefully you have already arranged for your childcare for this time.

There are definitely sort of holiday break camps and a lot of communities there may be college students home on vacation, So if you had a sitter you loved who went away to school, you might want to text that person to see when he or she is back for the winter holidays and put them to work.

Maybe they will be excited about earning a little money over this time.

But even if you are off for all this time, you might want to avail yourself of that opportunity.

You can start to feel really tired of day after day, especially your place where it's cold, bad weather.

Late December early January, you might want to buy yourself a day or two off with a holiday break camp for your young kids, or a sitter to come in and provide some fresh blood, so you can go relax and maybe have a sort of peaceful post holiday.

Maybe even leave the house.

Ooh, leave the house.

I love that idea.

Go see the light display that you're child didn't want to see that, or the intricately decorated dollhouse that you don't want to bring your small children anywhere near, for instance, That would be a fun post holiday activity for you.

But regardless of what you do, I think it might be fun to build in some sort of like little me time stuff for you.

One idea is like a holiday exercise streak.

And hear me out here, like nobody has to do this because exercise itself is an amazing thing to do.

I mean, we both enjoy exercise.

But if you tell yourself I'm going to exercise at least ten minutes every day between Thanksgiving and New Year's or when you're listening to this now, between early December and early January, it kind of forces you to take a break each day, take some time for yourself, maybe get outside, and especially when it's not great weather, we could need a little nudge to do that, but we generally feel better afterwards, so that might be worth considering, or something else that you could do to put a little daily joy right Sarah.

Yeah, there's actually a reminder that I think Caroline Gervaan is the one that has a special like Christmas Advent workout series.

It might not be called that, but it's shorter workouts that are designed to be done daily, and I've actually seen people use them at various times of the year.

But if you need a little push and you just.

Want something consistent and maybe with a little bit of a holiday element, that would be one kind of fun thing to try.

And then the nice thing is like, if you were one of those people who likes to have a New Year's exercise resolution, you're like already started.

Yeah, you test, throw up your resolution.

It's great.

Well, we're gonna take one more quick ad break and then we'll move back with a little bit more on celebrating the holidays.

Well, we are back talking this festive time of year.

Our sort of last strategy for upping the fun without the fuss is to think about adding just a little ambiance to any given day.

And again, people of any faith tradition can enjoy sort of lights and coziness this time of year, even without any of the religious specific elements of any particular holiday.

I mean, Sarah, you avail yourself of holiday music of different traditions.

I mean, I like Christmas music, so that's a little bit different, just because, yeah, I grew up with it.

So to me, it's just like seasonal and it feels secular, even though for others, of course, it has a different meaning.

And that's okay.

I think we both enjoy it on our own levels.

I love Christmas albums from some of my favorite artists.

I love just the fact that you like bring them out once a year, right, Like you're not gonna play Casey Muff's Graves Christmas in July, but to hear it every December, it's like, oh, I love that shout out.

So yeah, Casey and Amy Man two of my very favorite Christmas albums out there.

Like Holiday Jazz and like the smells, oh my gosh, the smells are also very Anyone can enjoy the smells of pine oh my, like the smells of like the ski slopes, Like that's a whole other story, Like to breathe in that tree air is amazing and to really take time to notice these things that are very seasonal specific.

That is like one of the things I love about, you know, just leaving the area and seeing something that looks like winter.

And then you can get a little taste of that at home really cheaply by getting a cute candle or a soap.

Yeah, exactly, your your shower can smell like Christmas if you want it to.

It could at any time of year, but you might be more inclined to enjoy that during December.

Get out holiday puzzles, for instance.

I always make sure I get a new holiday puzzle in December, and I have ones from years past that I resurrect during this time of year.

We now have a whole library of holiday children's books, so I read those with Henry this time of year.

And the good thing is there's a lot of holiday books out there, so you could just go to the library and grab a ton of them, and some will be duds, but some will be fun, and then you can just bring them back a week later and go get some more, and you'll have fresh reading material that you're probably not reading at other times of the year.

I would be upset if I had to read the Grant Schostel Christmas the whole year, But if I only have to read it a few times in December, it keeps a little bit of its magic.

Yes, I mean yearly is a nice interval.

And I think part of the magic of the holidays is that they're cadence.

Yeah, yeah, that you only do it that's a year, and so you don't have to have it all the time.

Many things in life are good in small doses, and that includes celebrating the holidays.

All right, So this question today's question comes from somebody this is sort of seasonal specific, says, my office culture doesn't feature a lot of people leaving during the day, but it's dark when I leave now at five o'clock, So how can I make sure that I get outside and see daylight without it becoming a thick?

Did you want to start, Sarah?

I guess they'll be subversive and just be like, just because everyone doesn't do it, doesn't mean you're not like allowed to do it, And I will just give a plug for the lunchtime walk like, it's clearly not against the rules.

You don't have to work, I mean, unless you have some kind of shift work job where you don't have any lunch break.

I guess there are some rules like that, but probably not a lot.

In knowledge work sectors, you're allowed to take a lunch break and nothing says you can't take it outside.

Your attire is going to matter, so maybe you have a pair of like slip on clogs or something that you throw on that are more comfortable to walk outside.

But even just a couple of laps around the block.

I mean, if it's chilly, you're not going to want to be out there for that long.

But for me, I even do it in August, which is like the same as your winter.

It's like disgusting.

But to leave my office for.

A minute and be out in the world and like move around is so healing to me.

And it can be just fifteen minutes which no one even notices, Like I walk out and I walk in, and I think people think I just like went to the bathroom or something, and yet for me it feels meaningful.

So I guess that my first tip would just be like, just because everyone isn't doing it, doesn't mean it's not okay.

Yeah, I mean I think there are certain workplaces where there are things like security protocols or you know, if you're at a high rise where it's like a two elevator process to get out of the building, the transaction costs are high, and I totally get that.

So, I mean, one thing we often talk about is things don't have to be daily.

So even if you are in a place with like security protocols or cleaning protocols or something going in and out of the facility, possibly you could get your head around doing it once a week, like a lunch with colleagues.

Right, that's a good thing to propose for because it seems like it's collegial as well building, it's morale building, and so people might be willing to get their heads around the idea of going through this process once a week.

And you know that's again it's not nothing.

It's like once a week that you're getting out and seeing the light during the day.

There are also sort of sanctioned reasons that people might come in late.

For instance, you might want to put your doctor and dentist appointments during the dark days of winter, where you will come into work at ten o'clock instead of eight thirty because you had your doctor or dentist appointment, and if that is a sanctioned reason to come in late in your particular place, then you might take your advantage of that if you have any sort of like if you are in a secure facility or anything like that, if there is some sort of interior space, right, like get yourself out in the courtyard, like you can go walk around there, you can go eat your lunch out there, even if you're not going outside the perimeter.

And same with like the elevator thing.

Get your head around the idea that you are going to look for external events that you're going to be required to leave your building during the day to go to, Like you know you're going to go to the recruiting event that's a lunch somewhere.

Volunteer for that as a way to get yourself off.

And you might also like use the morning that even if it's dark at four thirty where you are, the whole thing with that is that it often is light at six thirty, and so if your work hours are nine to five, get yourself up and out at six thirty in the morning, like be outside from six thirty to seven thirty.

Then do like the getting ready and getting the commute to work if that is at all possible, or even if you need to trade off with a partner to make that happen.

But to get yourself outside during those windows.

Now, obviously if you are just in a normal office where people don't leave, it's not that you have to go down three elevators or you have to go through hasmat security process to get in and good lord, just leave.

You could do it.

I have faith in you.

People also mentioned at best day of plans live walking meetings and people you know in leadership and you know, if you're high enough up you can like start the cult even if it's not there, you can start a trend.

People may copy that below you.

Yeah, yeah, no, so any look at your calendar.

We had somebody do this.

When you do your weekly planning, like Friday, you're looking at the upcoming weekend.

Look at your calendar.

See are there any meetings where it makes sense to turn this into a walking meeting?

Maybe it's a close colleague, so somebody who wouldn't be like, what on earth are you talking about?

Like if you suggest doing it as a walking meeting, and particularly if it's just two of you, right, like and it's a topic that you're reasonably familiar with, Like you're not going to be needing to look at resource material the whole time while you're doing But then give the person a heads up because you're going to want them to bring their coat and their shoes, for instance, if you're in a place where that is going to be required for any sort of outdoor walking meeting.

But even just a couple of week of those like mass change the amount of daylight you are seeing in these dark months, and that can be a big win, all right, Sarah Love of the Week.

I gotta give a little shout out.

I don't like pumpkin spice lattes, but every year I do get a gingerbread latte and those are pretty good.

I guessing it's pretty similar concept.

It has a tiny bit more of a ginger taste, does.

The same cinnamony kind of thing, you know.

It's like I've never tried that.

I like the taste of eggnog, but somehow like I've never moved to order the eggnog latta, but maybe one year I will try that one as well.

And are you into like peppermint lattes or is that.

Nothing I don't like?

No peppermint mocha, Like, I don't want mint in my coffee, but I know a lot of people love that, so yeah, you do you Yeah.

I generally just drink my coffee blacks, so none of those comes same.

This is like a treat, a special treat.

Gotcha, gotcha.

Yeah, But there's many creamy flavors to avail yourself seasonally.

It could be a way to celebrate the season.

So I'm gonna say singing Christmas carols is my love of the week.

And particularly when you sing these two perform them, you wind up learning the extra verses that you wouldn't learn if you were just randomly singing them or listening to them.

And so even like well known ones have some interesting stuff.

And I was surprised to learn I have never liked the carol Oh Holy Night.

People may recognize it as being one of the schmaltziest Christmas carols out there.

It is often like butchered by singers who are belting out the high notes on Oh Holy Night, because it goes very, very high.

It's got a huge range in terms of more than an octave and a half.

It's high right.

However, I got to learn the third verse, and I realized it is incredibly subversive.

This carol was written in eighteen fifty roughly, and the third verse was actually an abolitionist verse, isn't that's interesting?

Yeah?

And yeah does not go with the vibe I mean no, the song does have like a it's in my head now, you know, like I could hear it as like a protest song, like the high part and yeah, okay, yeah, yeah, it's a new angle.

So you could check out the lyrics of the third verse, and maybe there are different orderings of verses, but I was I was very surprised to you know, have the thinking about breaking chains and other such things that were that was in there.

So you know, you always learn something new every holiday season, and that people decided to put that out there.

Anyway, Well, this has been best of both worlds, and we have been talking all things holidays with one more quick plug for pre ordering Best Laid Plans, Sarah's book that is going to be out next week and we'll be talking more about it next week.

But you want to make sure you get yourself your pre order bonuses.

So if you're listening to this before December sixteen, make sure you go to the shoe Box that's th h E s h U b o x dot com.

Slash pre orders and get those for yourself, right, Sarah, Ah, thank you so much.

Yeah, well, we're all very excited about it, so makes a good Christmas gift for yourself, for Hanukah gift for yourself.

We will be back next week with more on making work and life fit together.

Thanks for listening.

You can find me Sarah at the shoebox dot com or at the Underscore Shoebox on Instagram, and you can.

Find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com.

This has been the best of both worlds podcasts.

Please join us next time for more on making work and life work together.