[SPEAKER_00]: Hello and welcome to UseFelidia Time Katie Helper.

[SPEAKER_05]: I'm Erin Mattay.

[SPEAKER_05]: Thanks so much for being here.

[SPEAKER_05]: Our website is always.

[SPEAKER_05]: UseFelidiaT's podcast.com.

[SPEAKER_05]: Today we have double header for you.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yet again, we're going to be covering of course.

[SPEAKER_05]: the non-events that was the Epstein files.

[SPEAKER_05]: The Trump administration claiming after basically so many months and years of hyping up the Epstein files this week's saying, actually nothing is to hear.

[SPEAKER_05]: Well, former CIA officer John Kerry Akku will be here to give his take on what's going on.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's always fascinating talking to John.

[SPEAKER_00]: He has amazing stories and also it should be known.

[SPEAKER_00]: People may be interested in knowing that John is the only person to spend any time in prison over the CIA's torture program.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is a program in which he did not participate, but he blew the whistle on it.

[SPEAKER_00]: So of course, in the United States, you don't ever get in trouble for committing crimes.

[SPEAKER_00]: You get in trouble for exposing them.

[SPEAKER_05]: Well, speaking of exposing crimes in the second half of the show will also hear from Martha Havishko, she is a returning guest.

[SPEAKER_05]: She is a visiting assistant professor at Clark University and she's Ukrainian and she's very critical of [SPEAKER_05]: the Ukrainian government, also very critical of the Russian government.

[SPEAKER_05]: But what she has to say about Ukraine contradicts a lot of the narratives we get here in the West that is used to sustain the proxy we're there, which a lot of people have kind of forgotten about because it's been going out for so long and it's so many other horrible crises in the world, namely the genocide of Gaza.

[SPEAKER_05]: But Ukraine's still happening and as we'll hear in today's interview with Marta, things are very bleak.

[SPEAKER_00]: What else is bleak is the news here, the news there, and I guess that's a great transition to start the four basic food groups.

[SPEAKER_00]: Democrats, separate public and suck, isn't that weird, isn't that terrible?

[SPEAKER_00]: What bleak news do we have from Democrats suck?

[SPEAKER_05]: Well, the main source of bleak this right now for Democrats is this light on to New York City, onto the Big Apple, Zorn mom Donnie, his successful campaign in the Democratic primary for mayor and how are corporate Democrats [SPEAKER_05]: grappling with the fact that this charismatic young challenger is set to become the next mayor of New York City on the Democratic ticket.

[SPEAKER_05]: Well, they're handling this by saying he's not welcome inside their part as former Biden challenger Dean Phillips just told CNN.

[SPEAKER_05]: Is there room for you and Mamdoni in the Democratic Party?

[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I think it's a, it's a, it's a fine question.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's one that many Republicans have been asking about whether there's room for traditional conservatives in a party now led by mega Republicans like Donald Trump.

[SPEAKER_02]: The answer ultimately, I think is no, you know, we do share many of the same values.

[SPEAKER_00]: In fact, great.

[SPEAKER_00]: Can you, can you leave the party Dean in Phillips?

[SPEAKER_00]: Can we get them writing?

[SPEAKER_00]: That would be great.

[SPEAKER_00]: Please retire right now.

[SPEAKER_02]: Most Americans share a lot of the same values, but as a political party, yes, you want diversity, you want some differences of opinion and perspective, life story, politics and experience, but when you have socialists, when you have socialists in the Democratic Party, I don't know how anybody could argue that that would be beneficial for the party or for the country.

[SPEAKER_02]: They're in lies, the great challenge, same thing on the right Omar is mega the future of the Republican Party if it is.

[SPEAKER_02]: There is going to be a new grand successful third party in America because the overwhelming majority of Americans want neither far left or far right politics.

[SPEAKER_02]: They want decency.

[SPEAKER_02]: They want common sense competency and cooperation.

[SPEAKER_02]: And no party right now is elevating candidates who represent those ideals.

[SPEAKER_00]: Decenty confidence and cooperation and common sense.

[SPEAKER_00]: All right.

[SPEAKER_00]: Decenty cooperation, common sense.

[SPEAKER_00]: Cooperation, common sense, competency.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think he's maybe starting his own third party, the triple C party.

[SPEAKER_05]: The D triple C.

Oh, yeah, you're right.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's in, yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: Decenty competency, cooperation, and what was the last one?

[SPEAKER_00]: Dirty felt, it already escaped me.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's how meaningful it is.

[SPEAKER_05]: He's basically saying that everybody wants a centrist corporate democrat.

[SPEAKER_05]: That's what he's basically saying.

[SPEAKER_05]: That's just he's still clinging to.

[SPEAKER_05]: And it's not a question of like, if their public and party is now mugged, they are mugged.

[SPEAKER_05]: And that's the base of the party now.

[SPEAKER_05]: So it's not as if there's like a bunch of Republicans dying to leave.

[SPEAKER_05]: There's like a small sliver of like, I don't know.

[SPEAKER_05]: I guess you want to call like old school Republicans who don't like Donald Trump, but like [SPEAKER_05]: Republicans are Maga.

[SPEAKER_05]: And look, he says we want diversity of opinion to the Democratic Party and diversity of background, but you can't have a socialist.

[SPEAKER_05]: But in Zorgam and Dennis case, like, what does that mean to be a socialist, basically?

[SPEAKER_05]: He supports universal health care, universal pre-K.

[SPEAKER_05]: He wants to have free buses for people.

[SPEAKER_05]: He wants to have government subsidized grocery stores so that in some communities where there are no healthy food options or barely any food options at all that you have ways to serve people so that people can be fed.

[SPEAKER_05]: These aren't radical policies actually that he is pursuing.

[SPEAKER_05]: And of course, he also wants a rent freeze, which is also not socialist.

[SPEAKER_05]: It's just kind of trying to basically make the city affordable for working people.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: I wonder what Dean Phillips thinks of like FDR.

[SPEAKER_00]: If he thought he was a big, scary socialist who should have been banned from the Democratic Party.

[SPEAKER_05]: Although I do think they're genuinely alarmed by Zara Mondani's progressive policies.

[SPEAKER_05]: I think another issue is the fact that he sees Palestinians as equal human beings.

[SPEAKER_05]: And the Democrats have played this game where that just simply not allowed at least in the leadership of the party.

[SPEAKER_05]: If you want to run for president, if you want to be a Senate or House leader, you have to bow down to Israel.

[SPEAKER_05]: And now you have the potential next mayor of New York City, not playing that game.

[SPEAKER_05]: And that also to them is not welcome.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right, and I think they're afraid of saying that, right, because the irony is that the Zionists are really messed up because I think that they helped Zora on mom, Donnie, because they kind of tried to make this a referendum on Israel.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think a lot of people were disgusted by it because it just seems so irrelevant and so forced.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you do do certain things as the mayor of New York related to [SPEAKER_00]: Farm policy, there's some symbolic things.

[SPEAKER_00]: They're like, you know, agreements with foreign government and stuff.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I think they were so over the top that it backfired.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so now I think that the Democrats realize if they try to vilify Zaron over Palestine, they're just going to make him all the more popular probably.

[SPEAKER_05]: So as Dean Phillips is basically saying that Zoram, I'm done exactly welcome inside his party.

[SPEAKER_05]: Joe Scarborough of MSNBC asks a very good question.

[SPEAKER_05]: Why is it that corporate Democrats like Dean Phillips can't reach anybody whereas Zoram, I'm done he can.

[SPEAKER_05]: This is Joe Scarborough.

[SPEAKER_08]: And why is it that in the Democratic Party, the three most compelling figures, the Merrill candidate, Bernie Sanders and AOC, the three most compelling figures since the election have been for left of, let's say, the mainstream of a lot of Americans.

[SPEAKER_08]: Why can't moderate Democrats?

[SPEAKER_08]: Why can't conservatives moderate Democrats like you make that same compelling message?

[SPEAKER_08]: Geez, I don't know, Joe.

[SPEAKER_05]: Maybe because they have no message.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_05]: People are tired of it.

[SPEAKER_05]: And they have nothing to offer anyone anymore, except like, I don't know, worshiping Israel and not being as foolish on some issues or as Republicans, for example.

[SPEAKER_05]: Corporate Democrats are to their credit, not supporting Medicaid cuts, which is great, but people want more than that.

[SPEAKER_05]: And in Zara Mundani and Bernie Sanders and AOC, you have people who champion workers and who actually have concrete policies that they're willing to fight for.

[SPEAKER_05]: Maybe that's why the so-called moderates can't reach anybody.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, yeah, and it's interesting because I think, you know, it's very revealing that Scarborough presents Bernie AOC and Mombani as far from the mainstream because something that Bernie really helped show the world is that these things that are called radical are radical and fringe among the elites, but not among people.

[SPEAKER_00]: So there's nothing actually radical in the idea of having to not die because you don't have enough money.

[SPEAKER_05]: Well, another issue that corporate Democrats face is that people rightly don't see them as having any real convictions, and that those say whatever.

[SPEAKER_05]: A good example of this is Chuck Schumer, who made a lot of noise when he stood up in Congress and gave a speech, basically denouncing Benjamin Netanyahu and saying that he has to go, right?

[SPEAKER_05]: And this is supposed to be some huge shift from Chuck Schumer.

[SPEAKER_05]: It was a lifelong [SPEAKER_05]: defender of these illegal government.

[SPEAKER_05]: Well, Benjamin Netanyahu just visited Washington and guess who is posing in a picture with Benjamin Netanyahu, none other than Chuck Schumer.

[SPEAKER_05]: Here he is.

[SPEAKER_05]: There's Chuck Schumer alongside some Republican colleagues with Benjamin Netanyahu.

[SPEAKER_05]: The same guy who Chuck Schumer said, you know, has to go because he's so awful for Israel and, you know, this is not who Israel is.

[SPEAKER_05]: Well, Chuck Schumer is someone who's willing to post with the guy.

[SPEAKER_05]: who he called on to resign.

[SPEAKER_05]: Which is, of course, on top of the fact that Chuck Schumer is like a, you know, a complete, uh, is totally subservient to Israel.

[SPEAKER_05]: He also just doesn't have any principles.

[SPEAKER_05]: He's willing to stick to it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but Aaron, look at him.

[SPEAKER_00]: He is boldly boldly looking away.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's not looking at the camera.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that is his way of registering his resistance.

[SPEAKER_05]: Well, he probably is probably thanks exactly that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_05]: That's probably what he wants to think about.

[SPEAKER_05]: I'm sorry.

[SPEAKER_05]: Don't worry about it.

[SPEAKER_05]: You want him to resign.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: true, very Julia.

[SPEAKER_00]: For a public and suck, we have an adorable kind of suite of developments.

[SPEAKER_00]: People may remember that back in May, Trump announced he would be lifting sanctions from Syria.

[SPEAKER_00]: And in his executive order on the matter from the end of June, he also declared he would take Hayat Terrier, Al-Sham, HDS, which is Al-Qaeda's former affiliate in Syria.

[SPEAKER_00]: That was led by Abu-Mam Hamid Al-Jalani, Nadal leader of Syria, off the designated foreign terrorist list.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now, here is a video of Trump from this week at a dinner he hosted for Netanyahu and the Israeli delegation and listened to him talking about this decision.

[SPEAKER_09]: You know, they had to request a lot of countries in the surrounding area of the Middle East, including BB.

[SPEAKER_09]: We will, uh, we took the sanctions off Syria.

[SPEAKER_09]: And I met the new leader.

[SPEAKER_09]: I was very impressed by him, but somebody said, well, he comes from a very tough background as well.

[SPEAKER_09]: You know, not that surprised at the tough part of the world.

[SPEAKER_00]: So Aaron, I want to pass it to you as someone who's really studied a lot.

[SPEAKER_00]: Research a lot and written a lot about Syria and HDS.

[SPEAKER_00]: Anything you want to share about this tough guy?

[SPEAKER_05]: Well, yeah, he's the founding leader of al-Qaeda in Syria in a former deputy leader of ISIS, and they were responsible for not only attacking US soldiers, which Trump and other neo-Kazones are forget about now, but also sectarian killings in Syria, which are still ongoing under Jalanis watch.

[SPEAKER_05]: In fact, [SPEAKER_05]: Reuters recently did an investigation about how the slaughter of more than a thousand alloyed civilians after a regime change in Syria last year.

[SPEAKER_05]: It was linked to forces under Jalan's control.

[SPEAKER_05]: But now that Syria is basically in the pocket of the US and Israel because they overthrew a government that was in the acts of resistance.

[SPEAKER_05]: And there's talk of Syria and Israel reaching some sort of [SPEAKER_05]: normalization agreement or some sort of tacit agreement, basically Syria no longer being a part of the block that resist Israel.

[SPEAKER_05]: Now we can say that this guy, Al Jalani, the former leader of Al Qaeda in Syria, is yeah, great guy, he's tough, you know, and let's remove sanctions on his government.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: So there were moving sanctioned on this government.

[SPEAKER_00]: They're also removing the terrorist designation from his organization.

[SPEAKER_00]: But guys, this makes a lot of sense because the Trump administration and Mark will be on particular.

[SPEAKER_00]: have decided to focus on a much worse villain, a much bigger threat, a much bigger terrorist.

[SPEAKER_00]: And they are in fact imposing sanctions on this terrorist.

[SPEAKER_00]: We actually full transparency.

[SPEAKER_00]: We once interviewed this terrorist and this terrorist is [SPEAKER_00]: UN Human Rights Council Special Repertoire Francesco Abenezay.

[SPEAKER_00]: And let's take a look at this announcement from Rubio.

[SPEAKER_00]: Today I'm imposing sanctions on UN Human Rights Council Special Repertoire Francesco Abenezay for her illegitimate and shameful efforts to prompt the international criminal court to take action against US and Israeli officials, companies, and executives.

[SPEAKER_00]: Albanese is campaign of political and economic warfare against the United States and Israel will no longer be tolerated.

[SPEAKER_00]: We will always stand by our partners and their right to self-defense.

[SPEAKER_00]: The United States will continue to take whatever action we deem necessary to respond to law fair and protect our sovereignty and that of our allies.

[SPEAKER_00]: So just to review the person who we are sanctioning is someone who opposes genocide and who had the temerity to lay out in an excellent report, the way that different companies are complicit in genocide.

[SPEAKER_00]: But the person who commits war crimes gets to have sanctions lifted off of his country and gets to have his organization welcomed into the non-terrorist world.

[SPEAKER_00]: So that kind of says everything you need to know about the rank of hypocrisy of the United States.

[SPEAKER_05]: And someone that showed the contrast in really simple terms is treat a parsley.

[SPEAKER_05]: He wrote this.

[SPEAKER_05]: The man below is the founder of Al Qaeda in Syria.

[SPEAKER_05]: The US just took his organization, Office Terrorist, and let the sanctions on him.

[SPEAKER_05]: The woman below is the UN rapporteur on Israel and Palestine.

[SPEAKER_05]: The US is about to impose sanctions on her.

[SPEAKER_05]: Let that sink in.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_05]: And I hope people can now, who maybe were confused by the war in Syria, who heard maybe nasty things about the stance that people like me took.

[SPEAKER_05]: I hope that this contrast can help you understand why some of us were opposed to regime change in Syria.

[SPEAKER_05]: There's never about bringing freedom and democracy to Syria.

[SPEAKER_05]: This was about just basically destabilizing a country that was part of a resistance block to Israel.

[SPEAKER_05]: That's what the dirty war in Syria was for.

[SPEAKER_05]: Exploiting internal divisions, exploiting legitimate grievances inside a country to fuel a humanitarian catastrophe and ultimately supporting the insurgency that was led by Al Qaeda.

[SPEAKER_05]: And that's who now takes power.

[SPEAKER_05]: And because the government now in power will essentially not challenge the U.S.

[SPEAKER_05]: and Israel in the region, then their sanctions can be removed.

[SPEAKER_05]: And someone like Francesca Albanese who challenges Israel, simply by trying to apply the law to Israel, she is sanctions on her.

[SPEAKER_05]: So that contrast is really important, understanding not only how just what a fallacy, the so-called rules-based international order is exposing just how subservient [SPEAKER_05]: international institutions and government are too it's real, but also just the ang's behind our regime change towards.

[SPEAKER_05]: It's always to advance a gemini.

[SPEAKER_05]: It's never to advance human rights and freedom.

[SPEAKER_00]: really want to give a shout out to Francesca for being so fearless despite the fact that she's not only smeared as Nancy Semite, which is a totally baseless accusation, but now she's being sanctioned by the United States.

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[SPEAKER_00]: What do we got for isn't that weird?

[SPEAKER_05]: For isn't that weird, let's turn to a look back at the Kamala Harris campaign.

[SPEAKER_05]: And, you know, it's worth recalling that Kamala Harris had the opportunity to distance herself from Joe Biden, especially on the issue of the Gaza genocide, which made it so hard for so many people to vote for Democrats as much as they feared the Donald Trump campaign.

[SPEAKER_05]: Well, Kamal Harris was not willing to distance her soft from Joe Biden.

[SPEAKER_05]: And just was overall not very good at this campaigning thing.

[SPEAKER_05]: And we got a new anecdote about this from Karim Rakhma.

[SPEAKER_05]: He is the host of the very popular social media account subway takes where he interviews basically people on the New York City subway or foreign subway, too.

[SPEAKER_05]: And that's for their take.

[SPEAKER_05]: And so he just revealed that right before the vote, [SPEAKER_05]: in the US presidential election last year.

[SPEAKER_05]: Kamal Harris did a subway take, but Kamal Harris was so bad that both parties decided it wasn't worth airing.

[SPEAKER_05]: So this is what Kareem Rockma said about Kamal Harris' ill-fated appearance on subway takes.

[SPEAKER_07]: He emailed me.

[SPEAKER_07]: He emailed me.

[SPEAKER_07]: He emailed from the DNC.

[SPEAKER_07]: And they said, hey, Kamal Harris and Tim Walsh are really interested in being in her show.

[SPEAKER_07]: I said, that sounds cool.

[SPEAKER_07]: At least get to tell my daughter that I met.

[SPEAKER_07]: the potential president of the United States.

[SPEAKER_07]: And so I said, yes, based on the fact that it would be a good story and also they both had good takes.

[SPEAKER_07]: What happened with Kamla?

[SPEAKER_07]: Our take was really confusing and weird and not good.

[SPEAKER_07]: And so mutually agreed that we shouldn't publish it, I see.

[SPEAKER_07]: And I got lucky because I didn't want to be blamed for her losing.

[SPEAKER_07]: or take was that bad.

[SPEAKER_07]: It was really, really bad.

[SPEAKER_07]: And it was, it was like, didn't make any sense.

[SPEAKER_07]: I can tell you.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I tell you, I tell you, I tell you, I tell you, I tell you, I tell you, I tell you, I tell you, I tell you, I tell you, I tell you, I tell you, I tell you, I tell you, I tell you, I tell you, I tell you, I tell you, I tell you, I tell you, I tell you, I tell you, I tell you, I tell you, I tell you, I tell you, I tell you, I tell you, I tell you, I tell you, I tell you, I tell you, I tell you, I tell you, I tell you, I tell you, I tell you, I tell you, I tell you, I tell you, I tell you, I tell you, I tell you, I tell you, I tell you, I tell you, I tell you, I tell [SPEAKER_05]: I understand they were probably thinking it would show her more, you know, her human side if they did something non-political, but come on, get your message out.

[SPEAKER_05]: It said they were bacon as a spice and yeah, it was so bad that they canceled themselves and they, you know, get another opportunity for Kamal Harris was squandered.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you know, you would have thought that she would have learned her lesson from spice-related commentary from when Hillary Clinton said that she kept hot sauce in her purse.

[SPEAKER_05]: That's a great point.

[SPEAKER_05]: That was so funny when Hillary Clinton claimed that like, she was asked, like, what's the one thing you bring around with you everywhere?

[SPEAKER_05]: And she was like, well, hot sauce in my bag.

[SPEAKER_05]: And it was such a, I don't know what they, I think the thought there was like they would reach African American voters with that, right?

[SPEAKER_05]: That was the idea behind that.

[SPEAKER_05]: It was just so kind of sanding and phony and yeah, no wonder that was a loser.

[SPEAKER_05]: So yes, you're so right, compliments like they adopted one of the dumbest Hillary Clinton tactics losing Hillary Clinton tactics.

[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, it's just it's [SPEAKER_05]: All the ineptitude of the Democrats just it never ceases to him.

[SPEAKER_05]: And now we're living with the consequences like and I don't want to I don't want to downplay the differences between the two parties because Republicans now we just saw this with their so called big beautiful bill which is such a [SPEAKER_05]: monstrosity.

[SPEAKER_05]: It's like it's so awful.

[SPEAKER_05]: They're increasing the depending on budget.

[SPEAKER_05]: They're cutting taxes for their ultra wealthy.

[SPEAKER_05]: They're taking away Medicaid and food stamps from millions of vulnerable people.

[SPEAKER_05]: And Democrats, for all their faults, wouldn't have done something so foolish.

[SPEAKER_05]: They wouldn't.

[SPEAKER_05]: And it's important to recognize that difference.

[SPEAKER_05]: But Democrats just made it so hard to vote for them.

[SPEAKER_05]: And we continue to get new reminders as to how that they couldn't even do a proper subway take.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they really, they did not make it easy.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, speaking of Clinton call backs.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, remember they had Bill Clinton address a crowd in Michigan.

[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, this isn't the Bill Clinton of like, fifteen years ago.

[SPEAKER_00]: He used to be a very good panderer, but he's kind of lost the art.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so he wasn't able to pander at all.

[SPEAKER_00]: He just came off as incredibly offensive, which he is, but he used to be better at hiding it.

[SPEAKER_00]: You got to know when you've lost your gift.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: And of course, I'm referring to Bill Clinton basically arguing that Jews have a theological justification for being Israel.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, great job Democrats sending that message to Michigan, you know, home to the country's largest Arab-American population.

[SPEAKER_05]: Really wonderful job.

[SPEAKER_05]: Thank you.

[SPEAKER_05]: Thank you, Democrats.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, for isn't it terrible?

[SPEAKER_00]: Let's take a listen to someone who we haven't covered in a while on the show.

[SPEAKER_00]: In fact, Aaron, I think we haven't covered him since you've joined.

[SPEAKER_00]: But the lovely, right-wing commentator Charlie Kirk, this week during episode of his eponymous show on the far-right network, Wheel of America's voice, [SPEAKER_00]: He made some pretty interesting comments about where to lay the blame for at least a hundred and twenty deaths that occurred when flash floods struck Texas.

[SPEAKER_00]: Let's hear what he has to say.

[SPEAKER_06]: The Democrats are so despicable.

[SPEAKER_06]: The Democrats are not lifting a finger to remember the well over one hundred people that have died in Texas Hill Country.

[SPEAKER_06]: But you are not being told by the media anywhere.

[SPEAKER_06]: Is that the death toll likely would not have been as high if it wasn't for DEI.

[SPEAKER_06]: This Texas tragedy is just the latest example.

[SPEAKER_06]: It's not just incompetence.

[SPEAKER_06]: This is DEI working to undermine meritocratic institutions and more people likely died than otherwise would have because of DEI.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so basically saying too many people of color have jobs and that's why all these people died in flash floods.

[SPEAKER_00]: It is so disgusting and it's so evidence-free and it's a good reminder, good speaking of callbacks to when Elon Musk and former Fox News host Megan Kelly and others tried to blame the LA fires on DEI.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now what's great about these clients is they don't feel any pressure to provide any evidence is just such an obvious deflection.

[SPEAKER_00]: It also is a deflection from what really is the cause and that is climate change denial austerity measures and those are are implemented in many cases to finance the rich through tax cuts.

[SPEAKER_00]: and also give big oil handouts and subsidies.

[SPEAKER_00]: But again, no proof whatsoever that DI had anything to do with it.

[SPEAKER_00]: And we don't know the exact culprit yet, but it is important to remember that certain things were done that cannot have been helpful, that are very dangerous in themselves.

[SPEAKER_00]: Key positions have been cut as a result of Trump's doge cuts, including a warning coordination meteorologist position, which helps coordinate evacuations with weather forecasters and emergency managers and the public.

[SPEAKER_00]: They many are saying that while their work cuts, it wasn't understood at the time of the floods, but experts have noted that these key vacancies could have played a role.

[SPEAKER_00]: And of course, [SPEAKER_00]: The endo N.O.

[SPEAKER_00]: AA's new budget as a result of Trump's cuts under his one big beautiful bill would now essentially close all N.O.

[SPEAKER_00]: AA labs, including the lab with a key tool for predicting floods.

[SPEAKER_05]: Everyone has their buggy man, Democrat for a long time, bling brush up for everything.

[SPEAKER_05]: The MAGA people have many, I mean, they like to blame many different sources on documented immigrants, but certainly every single disaster you can always blame DER.

[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, again, there is much to be investigated and demonstrated, but obviously it's not good to cut these positions to cut funding for things like this.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it more generally warmer temperatures increase the amount of water vapor held by clouds, which allows for more torrential downpours.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that's just established fact.

[SPEAKER_05]: And those have been your four basic food groups.

[SPEAKER_05]: For this week's interview, we have two different guests.

[SPEAKER_05]: A first up is John Cariaco.

[SPEAKER_05]: He is a former CI officer.

[SPEAKER_05]: And he's going to help us sort out, what's the deal with Jeffrey Epstein?

[SPEAKER_05]: Because the Trump administration wants us to believe now that there's nothing to see here.

[SPEAKER_05]: Trump himself even said recently that why you guys asked me about Jeffrey Epstein when it was Trump's own top officials.

[SPEAKER_05]: including Dan Bongino, who's a deputy head of the FBI, who were constantly hyping up the Epstein files as this huge mass of cover up from the deep state in Democrats.

[SPEAKER_05]: And once Trump came to office, he was going to expose it all.

[SPEAKER_05]: And now the Trump administration is saying, hey, there's nothing to see here.

[SPEAKER_00]: and who better to talk about this with us than John Kiryaku, who himself is a major truth teller.

[SPEAKER_00]: He is a CIA whistleblower.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's the only person to have gone to prison over the CIA torture program.

[SPEAKER_00]: And he was a CIA analyst and case officer.

[SPEAKER_00]: So he has really great insights into what could have happened with these Epstein files and how the CIA and other intelligence agencies are fond of destroying evidence.

[SPEAKER_05]: and Katie did this interview solo.

[SPEAKER_05]: So let's go now to Katie's interview with John Kerry.

[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome back to the show, John Kerry Akku.

[SPEAKER_00]: Good to see you again.

[SPEAKER_00]: You too, it's always a pleasure.

[SPEAKER_00]: You're an amazing storyteller and guest.

[SPEAKER_00]: And we want to talk to you about Epstein.

[SPEAKER_09]: Are you still talking about Jeffrey Epstein?

[SPEAKER_09]: This guy's been talked about for years.

[SPEAKER_09]: You're asking, we have Texas, we have this, we have all of the things we, and our people still talk about this guy, this creep.

[SPEAKER_09]: That is unbelievable.

[SPEAKER_09]: Do you want to waste the time and do you feel against?

[SPEAKER_09]: I don't mind answering.

[SPEAKER_09]: I mean, I can't believe you're asking a question on an Epstein at a time like this when we're having some of the greatest success and also tragedy with what happened in Texas.

[SPEAKER_09]: It just seems like a desecration, but you go ahead.

[SPEAKER_09]: How do you like that?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, big change from what he was saying before.

[SPEAKER_04]: We're going to get to the bottom of it.

[SPEAKER_04]: He's going to release all the documents.

[SPEAKER_04]: He's going to release the videos and then you're still talking about this.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: And he's piding behind the tragedy in Texas.

[SPEAKER_00]: So what are your thoughts?

[SPEAKER_00]: What happened?

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I did see that on both Pierce Morgan and on Fox News, you said that you feel material was probably destroyed.

[SPEAKER_00]: So can you elaborate on that?

[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.

[SPEAKER_04]: Sure.

[SPEAKER_04]: At the CIA, [SPEAKER_04]: even though there are laws like the Federal Records Act, which specifically says you cannot destroy documents.

[SPEAKER_04]: They destroyed documents all the time.

[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, MK Ultra, even after Congress specifically told the Director of Central Intelligence that he had to preserve the MK Ultra documents, he went back to headquarters and they destroyed eighty percent of the tens of thousands of pages of documents that they had on MK Ultra.

[SPEAKER_04]: So now, we don't really know what [SPEAKER_04]: is true and what's not true about him calter because of the cover up.

[SPEAKER_04]: Same thing at the CIA with the torture videos.

[SPEAKER_04]: As soon as we're leaked out that there were videos of Abu Zubada and Khalid Sheikh Muhammad being tortured, Harriet Myers, who was the White House counselor at the time in the George W.

Bush presidency, Harriet Myers specifically told Jose Rodriguez, the deputy director for operations at the CIA and Gina Haspel, don't destroy the tapes and Gina Haspel put them in an industrial grinder and destroy them.

[SPEAKER_04]: So why would we think that the FBI would be any different, especially when it comes to allegations that some of the most powerful and some of the wealthiest men in the world are implicated in the scandal.

[SPEAKER_04]: Some of the most powerful politicians in the world may be implicated in the scandal.

[SPEAKER_04]: So I could absolutely see the FBI just drawing documents.

[SPEAKER_04]: And we could speculate as to what the reason would be, it could be just cash on the barrelhead.

[SPEAKER_04]: You know, it may be, it may be as simple as that.

[SPEAKER_04]: It may be that there's more to this so-called deep state than people think there is.

[SPEAKER_04]: So yeah, I don't, I don't trust that just like, like this revelation, like, oh my goodness, it turns out there are no documents.

[SPEAKER_04]: There are no dossiers.

[SPEAKER_04]: There are no videos except for child porn.

[SPEAKER_04]: Come on, man.

[SPEAKER_04]: Going back to the nineteen nineties and you couldn't find anything.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's pretty impossible.

[SPEAKER_04]: I don't buy it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it is just one of the latest examples of Trump and his administration promising to take things on ranging from, you know, the deep state to draining the swamp to [SPEAKER_00]: the industrial complex, and then once they're in power, they don't, or being America firsters, and then saying ridiculous things about Israel.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, everyone from Ash Patel, the Tammy Bruce, making statements that are embarrassingly subordinate to Israel.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, is this just because Trump is really good at saying the right things?

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I was think of him kind of like as a standup comedian.

[SPEAKER_00]: He knows how to work a crowd.

[SPEAKER_00]: He knows how to get a response from people.

[SPEAKER_00]: But then in terms of actual policy, he doesn't seem to line up.

[SPEAKER_04]: I think that he's really not terribly interested in policy.

[SPEAKER_04]: I don't think he ever has been.

[SPEAKER_04]: And certainly we've had other presidents that weren't interested in policy.

[SPEAKER_04]: But yeah, I think that he says whatever happens at the top of his mind.

[SPEAKER_04]: And whether he ends up contradicting himself later or not, he doesn't really care.

[SPEAKER_04]: I think that ideologically he's a Zionist.

[SPEAKER_04]: And I think he's so much so that...

[SPEAKER_04]: He's unwilling to bend.

[SPEAKER_04]: When I was serving in Bahrain, the Emir of Bahrain said something that has always stuck in my mind.

[SPEAKER_04]: He said, the last American president to give the Arabs a fair shake was George H.W.

[SPEAKER_04]: Bush.

[SPEAKER_04]: And every president since then has just been in the pay of the Israelis.

[SPEAKER_04]: Directly or indirectly.

[SPEAKER_04]: And the Arabs don't even pretend to think that they're going to get a fair shake.

[SPEAKER_04]: But we're seeing it in spades in this administration.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's interesting.

[SPEAKER_00]: You said that because I think that Trump is, and this is why I thought there was like a very small chance that he'd be better than Biden, because I think that Trump maybe he's a Zionist, but I think his Zionism is a lot less strong, a lot weaker than Biden's.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like who was more in general, I think Biden is more of an ideologue than Trump.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I think it's pretty not, you know, ideological mispropertonist.

[SPEAKER_04]: Definitely a populist.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, full of it, but I think just in general, you know, what the bottom line for him is real estate, more than it is any kind of ideology.

[SPEAKER_00]: But as someone who was in the CIA, what did you observe about the relationship between the United States and Israel?

[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, more than any other relationship that we have with any other country in the world, the relationship is dictated on Capitol Hill.

[SPEAKER_04]: not at the White House, but on Capitol Hill.

[SPEAKER_04]: I was, I was on a podcast earlier today.

[SPEAKER_04]: We were talking about this exact issue.

[SPEAKER_04]: And I said, when I, when I went to the Senate Foreign Relations Committee in two thousand nine, I was the senior investigator they're working for John Kerry.

[SPEAKER_04]: I had been in the job like a day or two days.

[SPEAKER_04]: And these lobbyists came by.

[SPEAKER_04]: It was a parade of lobbyists, right?

[SPEAKER_04]: Every cause, every lobbyist comes through at one time or another.

[SPEAKER_04]: But this was the first group of lobbyists.

[SPEAKER_04]: And they came to the office and they said, hey, congratulations.

[SPEAKER_04]: So great to have you on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.

[SPEAKER_04]: We're from APAC.

[SPEAKER_04]: And we want to bring you on an all expenses paid trip to the holy land.

[SPEAKER_04]: I was like, oh, thank you.

[SPEAKER_04]: No, no, thank you.

[SPEAKER_04]: We have a tour already laid out.

[SPEAKER_04]: We're going to take you to all the Christian holy sites.

[SPEAKER_04]: And you're going to see what a first world country we are.

[SPEAKER_04]: And we are America's greatest ally.

[SPEAKER_04]: And we're the only democracy in the Middle East.

[SPEAKER_04]: I was like, now, thank you.

[SPEAKER_04]: Thank you.

[SPEAKER_04]: Well, there were a bunch of people who went.

[SPEAKER_04]: I didn't go.

[SPEAKER_04]: I even was a little bit rude and I said, look, if I want to go to Israel, I'm going to pay for my own trip to Israel.

[SPEAKER_04]: But I don't want you guys to pay for trip to Israel.

[SPEAKER_04]: And I didn't go.

[SPEAKER_04]: But others went, well, it turns out they do this with literally every staff.

[SPEAKER_04]: for every congressman, four hundred and thirty-five of them in the house and a hundred of them in the Senate, that is money well spent.

[SPEAKER_04]: And then they contribute millions upon millions of dollars to campaigns, congressional campaigns mostly.

[SPEAKER_04]: And man, if you look at Israel, cock-eyed, they'll primary you.

[SPEAKER_04]: Right.

[SPEAKER_04]: And so they've gotten to the point, or they've gotten us to the point where people are so afraid to say anything about Israel, anything.

[SPEAKER_04]: Because if you say, if there's any criticism at all, no matter how mild, even if the criticism is a Benjamin Netanyahu as a politician, you're anti-Semitic.

[SPEAKER_04]: And then you've got to dig yourself out of that hole.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_04]: So most most elected officials, they just don't want to deal with it.

[SPEAKER_04]: So they just go along.

[SPEAKER_00]: And what can you tell us about the relationship between Israeli and US intelligence?

[SPEAKER_04]: It is not close on a personal level.

[SPEAKER_04]: We never liked Mossad.

[SPEAKER_04]: They don't like us.

[SPEAKER_04]: These rarely spy on the United States.

[SPEAKER_04]: and they deny and denying denying.

[SPEAKER_04]: In fact, I was on Pierce Morton a couple of weeks ago debating, oh my God, Alan Dursh with, I was with Scott Horton and we were debating Alan Durshowitz and Danny, what was his name?

[SPEAKER_04]: Yalone, he was the former head of Mossad, general.

[SPEAKER_04]: And I said, these rarely spy on the United States and he said, no, no, no, that's not true.

[SPEAKER_04]: when the Americans caught Jonathan Pollard in nineteen ninety five we stopped spying on the United States and I said with all due respect general that's not true because I didn't start at the CIA until nineteen ninety and the chief of security warned us that there were two [SPEAKER_04]: Israeli intelligence officers assigned to these Israeli embassy in Washington, and one hundred and eighty seven undeclared Israeli intelligence officers spread all across the United States stealing American secrets after having penetrated our defense contractors.

[SPEAKER_04]: So with all due respect, you're dissembling here, these rarely spy on the United States.

[SPEAKER_00]: What do you think of the way that Trump has gone from being America first to someone who is a pretty sick of fantic to be be now to be fair.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's a kind of circle jerk where they really suck up to each other and of course you have Netanyahu.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean hilariously nominating Donald Trump for a Nobel Peace Prize.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: What do you think of this?

[SPEAKER_04]: Well, circle jerk is the best way to say it actually.

[SPEAKER_04]: I won't get into the specifics of what a circle jerk is.

[SPEAKER_04]: People can Google it.

[SPEAKER_04]: But when Trump dropped the F bomb, what was it?

[SPEAKER_04]: A week ago, two weeks ago, that was specifically meant for Netanyahu.

[SPEAKER_04]: Because Trump wanted his ceasefire between the Israelis and the Iranians.

[SPEAKER_04]: Netanyahu was like, well, you know, maybe we're going to launch one more.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, just one more barrage.

[SPEAKER_04]: And then he was like, you know, cut at the fuck out or whatever it was he said.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_04]: They don't know what the fuck they're doing.

[SPEAKER_04]: I think is what he said.

[SPEAKER_04]: That was specifically meant for Netanyahu because the Iranians only react.

[SPEAKER_04]: They don't proactively attack Israel.

[SPEAKER_00]: Despite the way the media covers it.

[SPEAKER_04]: Correct.

[SPEAKER_04]: That there was just that little blip for a day and then it was all passed.

[SPEAKER_04]: I was driving to Capitol Hill last night.

[SPEAKER_04]: You couldn't turn left on on seventeen street.

[SPEAKER_04]: You couldn't turn left on fifteen street.

[SPEAKER_04]: Pennsylvania Avenue was closed.

[SPEAKER_04]: I'm like, what the fuck is going on here?

[SPEAKER_04]: Like, are they just going to shut down the city?

[SPEAKER_04]: I said, why is it like this?

[SPEAKER_04]: And the Uber driver said, BBs in town, nobody's moving anywhere in Washington.

[SPEAKER_04]: And then I talked to a [SPEAKER_04]: a contact of mine today who happens to be doing some work for the Israeli embassy.

[SPEAKER_04]: And he said that Netanyahu's staying for a week.

[SPEAKER_04]: This isn't just an in and out visit where he just meets with the president, shake hands does a photo up and leaves.

[SPEAKER_04]: He's here all week.

[SPEAKER_04]: That gives you an idea of how close this relationship is.

[SPEAKER_04]: I think Netanyahu was sick and tired of Joe Biden and the Democrats, even though Biden and the Democrats gave them literally everything they wanted.

[SPEAKER_04]: but he's far more comfortable with Donald Trump, because I think he's able to manipulate Donald Trump.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, maybe both of them, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: What's meaningful isn't that something?

[SPEAKER_00]: Isn't that kind of like the bipartisan phenomenon?

[SPEAKER_04]: It really is.

[SPEAKER_04]: It really is.

[SPEAKER_04]: You know, Katie, if I could add one thing to years ago, two thousand eight to two thousand twelve.

[SPEAKER_04]: I'm almost embarrassed to say this.

[SPEAKER_04]: I was an adjunct professor of intelligent studies at Liberty University, which was Jerry Falwell's evangelical Christian University to make it even worse in the Jesse Helm School of Governments.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my gosh, why?

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_04]: And when they called me to offer me this job, I said, why would you guys call me?

[SPEAKER_04]: I said, we probably disagree on ninety-nine percent of the issues.

[SPEAKER_04]: Why me?

[SPEAKER_04]: And without missing a beat, the Dean said, because torture is not Christian.

[SPEAKER_04]: And I said, OK, I'll take it.

[SPEAKER_04]: And I ended up really, truly enjoying my time there.

[SPEAKER_04]: Nice guys.

[SPEAKER_04]: We disagreed on everything.

[SPEAKER_04]: But genuinely, nice people.

[SPEAKER_04]: I am still for reasons that are unclear to me on the Liberty University list serve.

[SPEAKER_04]: And every once in a while, I just can't remain silent.

[SPEAKER_04]: And so I have to crack on them.

[SPEAKER_04]: So what word can I use?

[SPEAKER_04]: So pro Israel has to be fanatical about it.

[SPEAKER_04]: And they can't even explain to you why they're so pro Israel.

[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, deep down, I know what it is.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's because they went all the Jews to return to Israel so that the Messiah can come and Armageddon and the apocalypse and that whole thing, which is all, you know, fantasy.

[SPEAKER_04]: Right.

[SPEAKER_04]: But I crack on them all the time.

[SPEAKER_04]: And I say, St.

[SPEAKER_04]: Buddhist Church in Gaza, the oldest continually operating Christian church on earth.

[SPEAKER_04]: And the Israeli's vomit to rubble and kill everybody inside, by the way, every one of them was either a woman or a child.

[SPEAKER_04]: And you guys don't say anything about that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_04]: You don't say anything that they're literally wiping out the Palestinian Christian community in the West Bank after having already wiped it out in Gaza.

[SPEAKER_04]: You guys don't say a word, but God forbid, somebody should criticize Benjamin Netanyahu all of a sudden wear anti-Semitic.

[SPEAKER_04]: I said, you guys are anti-Christian.

[SPEAKER_04]: because you've literally not lifted a finger to help Palestine's Christians, Christians who have been there for two thousand years.

[SPEAKER_04]: Two thousand years.

[SPEAKER_04]: You don't say a word about that.

[SPEAKER_04]: And then nobody says anything.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and of course, it's also not very Christian to support genocide.

[SPEAKER_00]: No.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's also not very pro.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we know this as you said, it's totally opportunistic and transactional.

[SPEAKER_00]: They are not friends of the Jews.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, they're not utilized.

[SPEAKER_00]: And like you mentioned, so we'll all go back.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think four hundred of us get to survive and the rest burn for all eternity.

[SPEAKER_04]: That's exactly right.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, they make it seem like, in fact, you know what there was a scene in the sopranos.

[SPEAKER_04]: about exactly that.

[SPEAKER_04]: That somebody said, well, they're great friends of Israel, and then hash said, oh, don't let that fool you.

[SPEAKER_04]: They only like Israel because they want us to all go back there so they can kill us all.

[SPEAKER_04]: Wow.

[SPEAKER_04]: And that's really what it comes down to.

[SPEAKER_00]: I did not know that.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to watch that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: So on Fox news, with Marie Bartomo Netanyahu made some comments about how he is, quote, broken the Iran access and quote, and helped usher in a new Middle East.

[SPEAKER_00]: What are your reactions to this claim as someone who has worked extensively in the region and written about Iran before?

[SPEAKER_00]: Is there any validity to his claims?

[SPEAKER_04]: I hate to say yes.

[SPEAKER_04]: I think it's temporary because people aren't stupid and the world is constantly changing.

[SPEAKER_04]: And so the Iranians and the Lebanese and probably the Palestinians will figure something out.

[SPEAKER_04]: But if you look at just the last six months, well, the last eight months, he decapitated Hisbullah.

[SPEAKER_04]: to capitate it.

[SPEAKER_04]: For all intents and purposes, it is cease to exist.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's going to come back.

[SPEAKER_04]: But right now, it's nothing.

[SPEAKER_04]: He is essentially working with the Turks over through Bashar al-Assad.

[SPEAKER_04]: I'm no supporter of Bashar al-Assad, but I always said, [SPEAKER_04]: If you're concerned about Christian communities, but Charlotte said was the only thing standing between the Christian communities and complete annihilation.

[SPEAKER_04]: Uh, so that's gone too.

[SPEAKER_04]: And Gaza's been just, you know, vaporized.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's almost, it's almost gone in and of itself.

[SPEAKER_04]: So for the time being, yeah, he's broken the Iranian access.

[SPEAKER_04]: He still has the hoothies to worry about, but there are more of a little, you know, pimple on the butt of the Israeli body politic than they are a real threat to anything.

[SPEAKER_04]: And I wouldn't be surprised if they start, you know, bombarding the Houthis.

[SPEAKER_04]: But the Houthis are so poor and they have so little.

[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, how many million dollar bombs are you going to spend to blow up ten thousand dollar drones?

[SPEAKER_04]: Really?

[SPEAKER_04]: Is it worth it?

[SPEAKER_04]: When the Israelis implemented this operation against Hezbollah with the Pagers, the Pagers and the Self-Rass.

[SPEAKER_04]: My phone ran off the hook with former agency, friends, like, what do you think about this?

[SPEAKER_04]: And I said, holy shit, this is like, on the one hand, it's a crime against humanity or a war crime, depending on your position.

[SPEAKER_04]: Clearly, innocent civilians, including children were hurt or killed because these things just arbitrarily blew up.

[SPEAKER_04]: And we saw reports of people having taken their phones out of their pockets and they put it on the tables.

[SPEAKER_04]: They could have dinner with their families and it blew up and killed the nine-year-old girl.

[SPEAKER_04]: that it was next to.

[SPEAKER_04]: So yeah, war crime, but absolutely brilliant from an intelligence operations perspective.

[SPEAKER_04]: Imagine the moving parts that went into an operation like this where you've got to control literally everything from the point of manufacturing through the supply chain across half the globe.

[SPEAKER_04]: and then into the hands of the consumer.

[SPEAKER_04]: Absolutely incredible.

[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know if we'll ever be able to figure out how they pulled this off.

[SPEAKER_04]: you know, working with the Turks who the Israelis either lover hate, depending on what day of the week it happens to be.

[SPEAKER_04]: They came to this agreement that if you help us screw us, I'll help you screw the Kurds and the Turks said, sounds good to us.

[SPEAKER_04]: Next thing you know, the acid family runs off to Moscow, Bashar comes back for a week, fills the plane with riches, and then he runs off to Moscow.

[SPEAKER_04]: Right.

[SPEAKER_04]: So these, these Israelis have been very busy and they've been very successful at it for better or for worse.

[SPEAKER_00]: for worse, I would say.

[SPEAKER_00]: But you know, it's interesting because you have some people who say, oh, that was, I mean, obviously there's, there's a lot of people say it's technically technologically brilliant.

[SPEAKER_00]: But then you have people saying, oh, it was targeted.

[SPEAKER_00]: It wasn't targeted at all as you just pointed out.

[SPEAKER_00]: It killed.

[SPEAKER_04]: It wasn't targeted.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, Leon Pineda, who's not exactly a piece Nick, he said it was an activism.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that's shocked me because I would have expected the likes of Leon Penetta to say, you know, Bravo.

[SPEAKER_04]: My son, oh my God, we should all aspire to do things like that, but even he said it was an act of terrorism, which it was.

[SPEAKER_04]: It was.

[SPEAKER_00]: So go back to Epstein.

[SPEAKER_00]: What is the relationship between Epstein and Israel and what do we know about who was on the plane, who engaged in, you know, basically sex crimes?

[SPEAKER_03]: And to hear the rest of the interview, please go to useful idiotspodcast.com.

[SPEAKER_00]: And to hear the full interview with John, please go to useful idiotspodcast.com.

[SPEAKER_00]: And to great, it's a great interview.

[SPEAKER_00]: I really had to say, always love talking to him.

[SPEAKER_05]: All right, up next, we have a returning guest to useful idiots.

[SPEAKER_05]: I spoke to Martha Havrishko.

[SPEAKER_05]: She is visiting assistant professor at the Strasler Center for Holocaust Genocide Studies at Clark University.

[SPEAKER_05]: And we talked to her about the ongoing proxy war in Ukraine, which is not coming to an end, despite Trump's promises to broker a peace deal within twenty-four hours.

[SPEAKER_05]: He's now been an office for almost half a year.

[SPEAKER_05]: And this war is ongoing.

[SPEAKER_05]: And it's not going well for everybody, especially Ukraine.

[SPEAKER_05]: As we will hear now from our guest, Marta Huprichka.

[SPEAKER_05]: Marta, Havishko, thank you so much for coming back to useful idiots.

[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for having me.

[SPEAKER_05]: It's been a while since we covered Ukraine on the show.

[SPEAKER_05]: So I just want to start by asking you, what is going on?

[SPEAKER_05]: For people who are not following the day today at the conflict, what do you think is most important for people to understand about the current situation inside Ukraine?

[SPEAKER_01]: So the common situation is very dire due to different developments.

[SPEAKER_01]: First of all, city irrational attacks.

[SPEAKER_01]: Now it was the new record when Russia during one night sent more than seven hundred drawings across Ukraine to a different Ukraine cities and to take Ukraine infrastructure infrastructure.

[SPEAKER_01]: And of course we have the damage of residential buildings as well.

[SPEAKER_01]: and deaths and injuries of a certain people, including children.

[SPEAKER_01]: So basically war is one of the most important factors.

[SPEAKER_01]: But the second factor, and according to some polls, is even bigger trouble for some Ukraine, is a corruption.

[SPEAKER_01]: Almost every single day, we have new corruption scandals.

[SPEAKER_01]: For example, the deputy prime minister, Ternishov, who recently had then business travel abroad and some general assistant that he escaped from Ukraine because he was accused of corruption.

[SPEAKER_01]: This is a huge corruption scandal because the damage to Ukraine to Ukraine budget was approximately one billion grievous.

[SPEAKER_01]: And guess what Ukraine court just, you know, just release him without, you know, fire him and with, you know, this bail that is very small in comparison to damage to Ukraine government.

[SPEAKER_01]: Every single day, a day, a Ukraine people see how, you know, top militias [SPEAKER_01]: members of parliament, members of government and their relatives by new cars, by new apartment in Ukraine and abroad in US and in Europe.

[SPEAKER_01]: But every single day, the same other recitizens are required to donate for the army to buy necessary stuff even to buy weapon.

[SPEAKER_01]: So basically, this situation, the corruption, still one of the biggest problems in Ukraine.

[SPEAKER_01]: And recently, Ukraine, Ukraine people found out that many prominent journalists, they basically are [SPEAKER_01]: co-operating with security service, Ukraine, and with mutual intelligence if Ukraine.

[SPEAKER_01]: But at the same time, they label themselves as, you know, independent journalists, investigative journalists.

[SPEAKER_01]: So basically, is a total distrust nowadays in Ukraine in the whole governmental system.

[SPEAKER_01]: And many people don't believe that, you know, Zelensky team is handling the whole situation very good because we observe this, you know, clash the disaster at the all office.

[SPEAKER_01]: After that, you know, Zelensky has several meetings with [SPEAKER_01]: Trump and Trump said, oh, it was a good conversation, but still, despite of this good conversation, we observe how Trump has delivered a new weapon to Ukraine.

[SPEAKER_01]: So basically, the situation is very dire, and nobody understood what is the plan.

[SPEAKER_01]: How to defeat Russia?

[SPEAKER_01]: How to regain lost territories with the enormous amount of deserts from Ukraine army?

[SPEAKER_01]: And numbers are different according to different sources, but at least [SPEAKER_01]: two hundred thousand people deserved from Ukraine army.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, the lack of infantry people, the lack of soldiers, the lack of weapon, the lack of, you know, these sufficient support from the West because we observed even neighboring Poland.

[SPEAKER_01]: People are tired of this war and many of them don't want only approximately fifteen percent of Polish people want to send their sons, their husbands.

[SPEAKER_01]: to Ukraine, to fight Russians.

[SPEAKER_01]: So basically, no one wants to send their, their loved ones to die for Ukraine, for this corrupted government, for this, you know, ethnic nationalist, you know, politics and with neighboring countries, you know, Paul and Hungary, Romania, we have so many, you know, tensions in regard to, you know, language question and other, [SPEAKER_01]: questions in humanitarian politics.

[SPEAKER_01]: So Ukraine people are frustrated, many of Ukraine people, and they don't see the light in the tunnel.

[SPEAKER_01]: What next, must talk about, you know, towers for Ukraine, we will support as long as it took.

[SPEAKER_01]: But there was this, what we observed, pause in delivery weapons, blah, blah, blah, many talks, and [SPEAKER_01]: You know, only, you know, small, small baby steps.

[SPEAKER_01]: And in this configuration, Ukraine has no chances to regain lost territories.

[SPEAKER_01]: Those who observe closely how many territories Ukraine is losing every single day.

[SPEAKER_01]: It at least, fifteen, twenty square kilometers per [SPEAKER_01]: day and you know those scandals with the lack of you know these infrastructure that could hold these Russian offensive you know so people are asking what have you [SPEAKER_01]: You know, done for, you know, strengthening Ukraine defense system.

[SPEAKER_01]: Why?

[SPEAKER_01]: Where are those money?

[SPEAKER_01]: You talked about this all the time.

[SPEAKER_01]: You invaded Kursk and you explained Kursk region in Russia and you explained to other people that this was such a great operation.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so now, Russians are retaliating because they want to at least create this [SPEAKER_01]: Zahn, security Zahn, and prevent another attack, of course, Christian, of Belgorod, and so, even Bill Lesky, the celebrity, as of commander, when he was asked about course cooperation.

[SPEAKER_01]: He said, oh, at the beginning, it was good, you know, resolved because it boosts morale of Ukrainians, you know, and humiliate.

[SPEAKER_01]: and humiliate Putin and his generals, yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: But what happened next, we will talk about this, you know, his rule judge.

[SPEAKER_01]: So he avoided even G express his criticism of this separation.

[SPEAKER_01]: And many, many, you know, commanders are very critical of this separation.

[SPEAKER_01]: So basically, the main, I believe, the main mood in Ukraine is the disappointment.

[SPEAKER_01]: regardless of these cheering comments from, from, you know, state control media that are trying, you know, to talk about resilience and, you know, those are Ukrainians who want to rather die, experience glorious death from the Ukraine than, you know, raise their children, you know, peacefully.

[SPEAKER_01]: So it's insane.

[SPEAKER_05]: Let me show you a headline from a Ukrainian outlet that speaks to the long-term problems that Ukraine faces now on top of the immediate.

[SPEAKER_05]: This is what it said.

[SPEAKER_05]: Ukraine has already lost forty percent of its working age population according to the Ministry of Social Policy, which also says that to restore the economy, Ukraine needs to attract an additional four to five million workers.

[SPEAKER_05]: Talk to us about this and what this means for the country's future.

[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, when people dose in the West, who are, I call them, you know, keyboard warriors who are, you know, just chilling waving, you bring flags, you know, put on their social media, you know, [SPEAKER_01]: your brain flags and it was Ukraine, Slovakia, Ukraine and be brave as Ukraine.

[SPEAKER_01]: They watched this as a video game.

[SPEAKER_01]: They really, you know, for them, it's very interesting all these developments, how people to observe how people are dying on the battlefield and how they are persecuted by drones, but war is not only the battlefield.

[SPEAKER_01]: Battlefield is most visible.

[SPEAKER_01]: Combat is most visible.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, we talked about different numbers about who the soldiers, about soldiers with airplanes, you know, about Mrs.

soldiers, soldiers about killed soldiers.

[SPEAKER_01]: But war basically has so many dimensions.

[SPEAKER_01]: And one of these dimensions connected to this situation with the war force.

[SPEAKER_01]: Ukraine experienced enormous lack of work for us.

[SPEAKER_01]: Nowadays, Ukraine officials are talking about inviting people from Argentina, Colombia, Bangladesh and other countries.

[SPEAKER_01]: And this discussion is very tense.

[SPEAKER_01]: Why?

[SPEAKER_01]: Because many people consider this question in terms of this anti-immigrant rhetoric [SPEAKER_01]: and the Muslim rhetoric that is on the rise in the West and due to this rhetoric, many far-right and different countries including Germany, Austria, you know, Sweden and other countries [SPEAKER_01]: You know, France, so gain popularity.

[SPEAKER_01]: And many, especially far-right, they are so concerned because they are saying, you know, why men are dying in the battlefield?

[SPEAKER_01]: And what will happen next?

[SPEAKER_01]: They will bring, you know, brown people, black people, not Christian people.

[SPEAKER_01]: So they consider this as a security threat for Ukraine.

[SPEAKER_01]: So there is no a good solution for this.

[SPEAKER_01]: And as long as war will continue, the more people will leave Ukraine.

[SPEAKER_01]: Even today, I have so many of my acquaintances at France and relatives who consider to take their sons abroad before they turn eighteen, just in order to give them better perspectives and in order to spare them from these.

[SPEAKER_01]: forced mobilization in order to give them a future, basically, at least some future, because what you create propose, you create officially officials, constantly say, you should prepare for long war, you should prepare basically for forever war.

[SPEAKER_01]: So what next, you know, people can't understand what is the plan?

[SPEAKER_01]: And more and more people, I mean not only women who face no restrictions in movement, I mean men, I pay in tens of thousands of euros and dollars just to escape Ukraine.

[SPEAKER_01]: They use different ways, you know, they pretend to be, you know, volunteers, they pretend to be musicians, they pretend to visit, you know, sound.

[SPEAKER_01]: conferences abroad, and then they never return to Ukraine.

[SPEAKER_01]: So they pay for this, you know, for these excuses, they are hired by some, you know, politicians at their drivers.

[SPEAKER_01]: And they just escape Ukraine.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I was so shocked when, you know, I left Ukraine as some of our viewers, maybe no, I escaped Ukraine all immediately.

[SPEAKER_01]: after Russian attack in February, when it went to two.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I often visit Europe for different academic events, academic conferences.

[SPEAKER_01]: So basically, in twenty-twenty-two, when I visited you know Czech Republic in Germany, most of Ukraine refugees were women and children.

[SPEAKER_01]: Here, after that, in twenty-twenty-three, many of Ukraine refugees and the Ukraine, Ukraine, Ukraine, Russia language and Ukraine language were men.

[SPEAKER_01]: There were young men of the draft age with their families with [SPEAKER_01]: small children.

[SPEAKER_01]: So many men basically are very open about this.

[SPEAKER_01]: If you want forever war, send your children.

[SPEAKER_01]: Why are you children here?

[SPEAKER_01]: Why, you know, a son of the ex-president of Ukraine, Proshankam, is a wooden draft and ignores draft, you know, messages and he's leading his luxury life in Great Britain.

[SPEAKER_01]: Why click call songs in Germany?

[SPEAKER_01]: Why so many politicians have their sons here in U.S.

[SPEAKER_01]: where the education is so expensive?

[SPEAKER_01]: I teach at Clark University and I observe it's enormous prices for Ukraine people.

[SPEAKER_01]: The average salary monthly salary in Ukraine.

[SPEAKER_01]: is approximately six hundred dollars.

[SPEAKER_01]: But we all know how much Ukraine, Ukraine officials pay for the education of their children here.

[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, many of them are politicians without business in government, without any business, without any commercial activity.

[SPEAKER_01]: So basically, they just told these money, these funds from Ukraine budget.

[SPEAKER_01]: allegedly, and their sons are, you know, so basically, what we observe now, reach people in Ukraine, get in more reach due to the war and, you know, different schemes, and poor people became even more poor because they can't pay the bribe to avoid forced conscription.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_01]: That is directly to the infantry and to the most heavy battles.

[SPEAKER_05]: The last time we had you on the show, we played footage of some of the basically kidnapping of people being taken off the street to go be enlisted to be forced to fight.

[SPEAKER_05]: Recently, Russia has been bombing some of these Ukrainian recruitment centers, and there have been reports of some Ukrainians [SPEAKER_05]: on social media basically cheering this on because these recruitment centers are seen as the symbol of tyranny forcing people to go off to die who don't want to.

[SPEAKER_05]: Now, I want to read you something from the Washington Post in reporting on this.

[SPEAKER_05]: This is what the Washington Post says about the issue of military recruitment inside Ukraine.

[SPEAKER_05]: There is a great deal of Russian sponsored content and propaganda on social media, maintaining that Ukraine engages in highly unpopular forced recruitment of its citizens.

[SPEAKER_05]: So that's the Washington Post.

[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, is this just Russian propaganda that Ukraine is setting people off to die and engaging in what it calls unpopular forced recruitment?

[SPEAKER_01]: Actually, you know, of course, Russia instrumentalizes this, you know, this tension, this anger, this frustration.

[SPEAKER_01]: Because the military draft officers recruitment draft officers in Ukraine are associated with dictatorship, are associated with deprivation of basic human rights.

[SPEAKER_01]: And many people can't understand why they should die for this corrupted state, why they should die for a talkersy.

[SPEAKER_01]: Because Ukraine is on its way to dictatorship, because you know many science and we can talk about this later.

[SPEAKER_01]: So basically yes, Russia's a trying to instigate this anger.

[SPEAKER_01]: They are trying to support this people, but it's not only, you know, it's not only [SPEAKER_01]: Russian propaganda and some Russian trolls pay trolls.

[SPEAKER_01]: Why I'm saying this?

[SPEAKER_01]: Because, after this, you know, strikes on several recruitment center in the British Academy, with the real Kremlin to pull Tava.

[SPEAKER_01]: Many people, when you witness on social media, how people comment on this, [SPEAKER_01]: it was, you know, it was a humiliation for Ukraine government and for military commanders.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's why it was even an appeal of command of Grand Forces published in mainstream, one of the mainstream Ukrainian media, Ukraine, Pravda, Ukraine's Pravda.

[SPEAKER_01]: It was appealed to the people, please stop.

[SPEAKER_01]: Those people are your defenders.

[SPEAKER_01]: They are part of Ukraine, military, Ukraine, [SPEAKER_01]: that defend you from Russian, you know, horse, orks and all this stuff.

[SPEAKER_01]: You should support them not to cheer their des and, you know, those who want the soldiers who are inside.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so many celebrity commanders, military commanders who are very present on the medium.

[SPEAKER_01]: They pass their outrageous pass, how dare you with the fan use, stop laughing, stop be happy about this.

[SPEAKER_01]: And security service at Ukraine started to trace all those comments.

[SPEAKER_01]: And yesterday one man already was interrogated and they make sure that this information will be linked to the press in order to give a lesson to other people.

[SPEAKER_01]: Please stop doing that or you will face punishment.

[SPEAKER_01]: And we know [SPEAKER_01]: recently, you and release report about the human rights in Ukraine.

[SPEAKER_01]: And they were, and there are also great skepticism about the punishment for so-called collaboration.

[SPEAKER_01]: So the collaboration is such a broader, such a broader definition in Ukraine that dozens of people are put in trial and charged with prison [SPEAKER_01]: for comments on social media like this, like during this attacks on recruitment centers.

[SPEAKER_01]: So basically nowadays, everyone who is critical about, you know, for example, personal sanctions against, you know, Ukraine, [SPEAKER_01]: imposed by Zelenskin against his critics, or is not happy about beatings, kidnappings, and killings of people in territorial government centers.

[SPEAKER_01]: They could be blamed for spreading so-called Russian propaganda to be the paid Russian SS, and of treason.

[SPEAKER_01]: So basically, nowadays, martial law gives a lot of free-hand to security service and to all these law enforcement that use [SPEAKER_01]: even draft military draft selective military draft as a punishment against human rights activists.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yesterday, one of the journalists, who was highly advocating [SPEAKER_01]: these of, you know, draft officers, while and these.

[SPEAKER_01]: He was drafted, why?

[SPEAKER_01]: Because he criticized the government.

[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, people say, why?

[SPEAKER_01]: Why are you doing that?

[SPEAKER_01]: So basically, their, the government is sent in a signal to all those critics.

[SPEAKER_01]: You can be on his place.

[SPEAKER_01]: You can be dropped easily, you know, and sent to the front line to the very hell.

[SPEAKER_01]: And guess what?

[SPEAKER_01]: What will happen to you, you know?

[SPEAKER_01]: And what I must say regarding the rhetorical recruitment centers, I invite our listeners and viewers to check the latest Victor Orban pause with condolences to one of their men, forty-five years old from [SPEAKER_01]: Transcapatia is a Ukraine region and this guy had both Ukraine and Hungarian citizenship and he experienced formalization and he was so severely beaten that he died three weeks later.

[SPEAKER_01]: So basically those stories almost absent in Western media, because they don't want to undermine these formalization.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, because they, many of, yes, thank you so much.

[SPEAKER_05]: We're trying to picture on screen for our audience.

[SPEAKER_01]: Sister shared the news about him and all the details about him.

[SPEAKER_01]: And he's not the first victim.

[SPEAKER_01]: We know so many little cases in different regions of Ukraine.

[SPEAKER_01]: Recently, the guy from, he was basically his father.

[SPEAKER_01]: He was a combat volunteer.

[SPEAKER_01]: His father was proclaimed missing on the battlefield one year ago in Pocros, somewhere in Pocros region.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, he should be exempted from the military, but he was attacked by draft officers.

[SPEAKER_01]: He was beaten allegedly and he died.

[SPEAKER_01]: Also, he died.

[SPEAKER_01]: He was thirty-one year old.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, only in the past years, we found out two cases of deaths of those who experienced horse mobilization.

[SPEAKER_01]: And we all understand that during martial law, many people in Ukraine are not willing to expose this information, to make it public because the trust to law enforcement in Ukraine is approximately ten percent.

[SPEAKER_01]: Nobody, because of the extreme corruption in this judicial system, in the police system, nobody trusts the government, but they really believe that they can face retaliation from the government.

[SPEAKER_01]: They can lose their jobs for the criticism and expose in this information.

[SPEAKER_01]: They can be drafted to the military or their relatives can face repercussions.

[SPEAKER_01]: So basically, it's only the top of the iceberg that we observe, you know, but many people, many people experience in Ukraine, this, you know, beating [SPEAKER_01]: Because why the one of the reasons?

[SPEAKER_01]: Because draft officers were given free hands.

[SPEAKER_01]: Because commanders soldiers experts, they say in one voice, infantry, we need infantry.

[SPEAKER_01]: We run in out of soldiers.

[SPEAKER_01]: And nobody wants to go there.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I observe, you know, the thousands of novel fellas on the internet, this brave, you know, aren't jail warriors.

[SPEAKER_01]: And nobody wants to go to Ukraine in the country.

[SPEAKER_01]: Nobody wants to experience, you know, chasing by Russian drum.

[SPEAKER_01]: Nobody wants to delete their rest-life without, you know, links without, you know, penis or without, you know, eyes.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, it's obvious that for many people, it's, you know, it's just game.

[SPEAKER_01]: When real people are dying in Ukraine.

[SPEAKER_05]: Let's talk about one of this lengthy governments more recent and controversial appointments.

[SPEAKER_05]: So you've printed something called the Institute of National Memory.

[SPEAKER_05]: It's basically a history, a division of the government.

[SPEAKER_05]: And they've just appointed this man to head it.

[SPEAKER_05]: Let's show him on screen.

[SPEAKER_05]: His name is Alexander Afroff.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's a very Russian name, actually.

[SPEAKER_05]: And he's talking about who he is.

[SPEAKER_05]: Talk to us about who he is.

[SPEAKER_01]: So basically, Aleksandr Al-Fiorov is a historian.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's basically a historian.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's a scholar in Ukraine.

[SPEAKER_01]: He has a very popular blog in Ukraine about Ukraine history.

[SPEAKER_01]: And many of these, his TV shows are dedicated to [SPEAKER_01]: I would say to decolonization and de-recipitation of Ukraine, history, you know, so basically all this stuff, but what is more important?

[SPEAKER_01]: Alexander Fioro was a press officer of Azul Regiment in twenty fourteen, twenty fifteen.

[SPEAKER_01]: When this regiment was accused for so many war crimes in Donbas region and when members of this regiment were very open about their new Nazis use and making Nazis lose very openly and they were very open extremist.

[SPEAKER_01]: After that, when after twenty-twenty-two, he joined this special operation forces as of Kale, and then became officer of the Azou Sert as of Brigitte, responsible for humanitarian question and, you know, ideological question, so basically, for the logical train of Jan Man.

[SPEAKER_01]: who are recruited, who are lured to the army.

[SPEAKER_01]: So basically he is telling them that glorious death for Ukraine is the best option for you.

[SPEAKER_01]: And he will be celebrated as hero, so go and at least and experience this.

[SPEAKER_01]: a great glory.

[SPEAKER_01]: But what is important about Alfioro Esvel, as well?

[SPEAKER_01]: The Cerdus Old Brigitte in the twenty twenty-three in one of the biggest museum in Kiev, organized for the exhibition, that showed three, at least three, photos of Vannas's division Galicia.

[SPEAKER_01]: It was the collaborationist Nazi military formation that [SPEAKER_01]: keep host to Hitler and fight for Nazi Germany and committed war crimes in Slovakia, former Yugoslavia and other regions.

[SPEAKER_01]: Some of the participants of these weapons says the region Galicia participated in oppression of war, so a prize in [SPEAKER_01]: in punitive operation against Polish people, in good opinion, and other cities, in the territory of Ukraine, and Poland, and Belarus, and others.

[SPEAKER_01]: And many of them, actually, we have members of the whole police, so basically they were [SPEAKER_01]: in the Holocaust.

[SPEAKER_01]: So this guy actually created this exhibition, and yes, what?

[SPEAKER_01]: Members of his brothers in arm, members of his son Brigade, they reenacted these fathers so basically [SPEAKER_01]: They compare themselves to not collaborators, not Putin, not Skateva, not studio or other top-cremeling propagandists.

[SPEAKER_01]: They themselves, and this exhibition was created by Alfioro.

[SPEAKER_01]: And yes, what recently?

[SPEAKER_01]: when he was appointed.

[SPEAKER_01]: Many people started to talk about his background about his use and we found an interview recorded last year when he praised Hitler.

[SPEAKER_01]: He compared Hitler to Putin and said, oh no, no, no, we can't compare them those figures because Hitler he received high German education.

[SPEAKER_01]: He was acquainted with high German philosophy and music.

[SPEAKER_01]: He, you know, so basically he advocated Hitler.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then, you know, I listened to this interview and as a Holocaust scholar, as a, you know, person who teach Holocaust, I'm a Holocaust educator.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I listened how he started to defend, you know, he said, you know, [SPEAKER_01]: Russia is trying to develop this myth that all Ukrainians are anti-Semise, and guess what?

[SPEAKER_01]: During the period of Ukraine, people through public, proclaimed in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, [SPEAKER_01]: and they have the banknotes with Irish.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it was true, but then he stopped.

[SPEAKER_01]: But what happened next?

[SPEAKER_01]: The wave of anti-Jewish pogroms perpetrated by the army of these republics and tens of thousands of Jews were killed.

[SPEAKER_01]: were wounded, were robbed, and were raped.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it cost one of the biggest wave of immigration to United States.

[SPEAKER_01]: I have so many students, my students here at Clark University.

[SPEAKER_01]: whose relatives came as a result of these pogroms.

[SPEAKER_01]: We know that many actors perpetrated those pogroms, including, you know, white army, Bila Kvarjese, and even some, you know, cause of the Soviet army.

[SPEAKER_01]: But the most pogroms were perpetrated, but those, you know, Ukraine, Nationalists, you know, but these Ukraine army, army of Ukraine independent state.

[SPEAKER_01]: But he's saying nothing about this.

[SPEAKER_01]: So what to expect from these guys on these, you know, and I must say this is the main national memory actor in Ukraine.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's the governmental dissolution and we know that at least fifty percent of Ukraine budget [SPEAKER_01]: is filled by Western countries and all salaries of all government workers are paid by Western taxpayers.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I want to ask those Holocaust scholars, Holocaust descendants, Holocaust survivors, are you ready to pay him salary?

[SPEAKER_01]: Do you want him on the top?

[SPEAKER_01]: of this, you know, institution in charge of creating national memory in Ukraine.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's a shame.

[SPEAKER_05]: These are questions.

[SPEAKER_05]: These are questions that I wish our media asked, but unfortunately still not allowed to be discussed in the mainstream.

[SPEAKER_05]: We're going to wrap Martin.

[SPEAKER_05]: So you said earlier that, you know, you're worrying that Ukraine is becoming a dictatorship.

[SPEAKER_05]: Is there any aspect of this?

[SPEAKER_05]: Do you have to discuss yet in our conversation that you want to make sure we address before we wrap?

[SPEAKER_01]: I want to do.

[SPEAKER_01]: address the question of a so-called personal sanctions imposed by directly by Zelensky.

[SPEAKER_01]: So in past weeks and months, Zelensky, by his personal decision, in post-personal sanctions against some politicians, journalists, and bloggers, most of them, of course, escaped from Ukraine, including Aristotle, his former advisor, who is very critical of what is going on in Ukraine nowadays.

[SPEAKER_01]: And this list is very wide, and includes people like Bunderanko who wrote this book, Joker, a very critical to Brazilian kiss of basically.

[SPEAKER_01]: Many human rights organizations even in Ukraine.

[SPEAKER_01]: And, and recently, the Council of Europe Commission for Human Rights, they pay attention for this and they are very critical of this because it's against those sanctions against Constitution.

[SPEAKER_01]: Because in Odinji imposed sanctions, you need to prove that those people are involved in some terrorist activity.

[SPEAKER_01]: or are, and this must be proved in the court.

[SPEAKER_01]: But was the landscape did?

[SPEAKER_01]: He did this against, you know, all Ukraine laws and is violates not only Ukraine, constitution and Ukraine laws, but also those laws and internationality signed by Ukraine.

[SPEAKER_01]: So basically those who say, all Ukraine is such a vibrant democracy, now guys, you know, no.

[SPEAKER_01]: and what we observe, many media in Ukraine, who were fine, which were financed by USAID, and pretended to be, you know, liberal, independent, you know, media.

[SPEAKER_01]: Now they join this, you know, bullying of these people's sanctioned by Zelensky.

[SPEAKER_01]: They justify these to the public.

[SPEAKER_01]: They use slurs against those people's strong wars, but they only, you know, they're fault.

[SPEAKER_01]: is the harsh criticism of Zelensky and his team and the corruption and how they handle the war and how, you know, they protect the children of their oven, you know, bodies from the front because in Ukraine, military draft is very selective and targets, you know, and it's used as a punitive [SPEAKER_01]: Instrument against dissidents, you know, against some politicians.

[SPEAKER_01]: We know that Poroshenko is sanctioned nowadays.

[SPEAKER_01]: He can't freely, you know, visit some, you know, meet with some politicians abroad.

[SPEAKER_01]: So basically what we observe now, it has nothing to do with democracy.

[SPEAKER_01]: And if Zelensky will keep his power.

[SPEAKER_01]: I believe Ukraine will be rapidly sunk into a territory and state, but in the West we have complete silence and justification because our Ukraine of fighting for is an existential war.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, it is an existential war for the Lensky regime and for his bodies.

[SPEAKER_01]: because war, secure, there was secure their political influence and their political power.

[SPEAKER_05]: Because...

And for us, it's a proxy war that has been used to lead a rival Russia.

[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.

[SPEAKER_01]: And many, many Western politicians are so open about this.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, German commanders, we want to keep Ukraine fighting at least until twenty-surti because we should prepare.

[SPEAKER_01]: We should rearm.

[SPEAKER_01]: So how many Ukraine should die to protect Europe from Russia and to satisfy the needs of those warmongers in the West?

[SPEAKER_05]: Another question that's just not being posed enough, in fact, not being posed at all on the mainstream.

[SPEAKER_05]: And if we had a functioning democracy, it would.

[SPEAKER_05]: Marta takes a lot of courage to speak out the way you have a very grateful to for joining us and sharing your insight.

[SPEAKER_05]: Marta, have reached go visiting Assistant Professor at the Strasler Center for Holocaust Genocide Studies at Clark University.

[SPEAKER_05]: Thanks so much.

[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.

[SPEAKER_05]: And thank you again so much to Marta Havrisco and previously we heard from John Kerry Akku and again for the full interview with John Kerry Akku.

[SPEAKER_05]: Go and sign up to be a subscriber at usefulityitspodcast.com.

[SPEAKER_00]: And also Marta has such an important voice so always glad to hear from her.

[SPEAKER_05]: That's our show.

[SPEAKER_05]: Thanks so much for tuning in.

[SPEAKER_05]: We'll see you next time.

[SPEAKER_00]: Bye, everyone.

[SPEAKER_05]: Thanks so much for listening to and watching useful idiots.

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[UNKNOWN]: you