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Today you're listening to Monster Hunting the Long Island Serial Killer.

The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individuals participating in the podcast and do not reflect those of Tenderfoot TV or iHeartMedia.

This podcast contains subject matter which may not be suitable for everyone.

Listener discretion is advised.

In this episode, we'll be talking about these victims in very graphic terms.

These details are crucial for proving the mistakes and missed opportunities could have led to the perpetrators capture sooner.

These individuals deserve to be remembered not by the details of their deaths, but by the fullness of their lives.

They are Shannon Gilbert, Marine, Brainerd Barnes, Megan Waterman, Melissa Bartholomi, amberln Costello, Jessica Taylor, Valerie mac Karen Viergata, Asian do Soandra Castilla, Tanya Denise Jackson and Tatiana Marie Dykes.

Considering everything we've learned about Rex human so far, combined with that hulking presence and dead stare, it would be all too easy to make that leap from man to monster without asking one of the most important questions of them all, why, Because the why is just as fundamental to the crime or the criminal as his DNA.

In fact, they both stem from the same place, a deep inside ourselves, those unique individual markers that define the essence of who we are.

Because when it comes to serial murder, it shouldn't just be about solving the crime, but stopping the crime before it starts.

I met Rex when I was in second grade.

I grew up in mass People talk about maybe three or four blocks from Rex's house.

I'm talking mid seventies and early eighties.

We played on the same block.

It was a very small but close knit town.

Everybody knew everybody's business.

I recently spoke with John Parisi, a native Long Islander who grew up with Rex all the way through high school.

Rex was always subliminal.

He was an introvert.

He was always around, but he was always in a background, always there, but not there.

He really didn't speak too much.

My mother used to say, watch out for the quiet ones Well.

John describes Rex as a teenager who lived in the shadows.

His interactions with girls revealed a different side.

I believe that there was a lot of red flags early on.

For example, when Rex was in high school, he would leave love letters and girls lockers.

He would break into their lockers and steal clothes.

So he would go in and try and grab things from girls that he liked or maybe had been rejected from.

Correct jackets, certain things.

See if you ask me girl out, if she says no, she'll say, oh, I'm dating somebody, or I'm flat of it.

But thank you, but no, thank you.

That wasn't good enough.

In other words, he internalized it.

And then there was Jones Beach.

John mentioned going to Jones Beach back in high school, which was intriguing considering we learned early on that Rex had worked at Jones Beach.

Well, we used to hang out at Jones Beach Field four.

That was the place to go back then.

I miss it to this day.

Did you ever know him when he was working at Jones Beach?

Dad was later on in high school when he was older, he.

Had a fascination with the beach, the fascination with the beach that would turn into the perfect job and then something far darker.

The alleged serial killers spent about four summers in the nineteen eighties working at Jones Beach.

Prosecutors say Huerman worked at Jones Beach when he was in his twenties.

Part of the work entailed going from field to field to ensure beachgoers were off the property once the beach was closed, a role that made the defendant extremely familiar with Ocean Parkway at night.

Just six days after our interview with John Parisi, who was revealed that employees at Jones Beach had made a haunting discovery.

Brand new Developments any Gylgo Beach homicide investigations.

Detectives visited Jones Beach after discovering disturbing evidence near where suspect Rex Huerman once worked.

Workers unearthed a cachet of weather beaten purses and girls clothing buried in the sand just outside the East bathhouse.

Could these buried clothes be the same ones Rex stole from girls' lockers four decades ago, clothes that were said to include mini skirts, shorts, and blouses.

Some with ripped and torn buttons or considering workers also found a bloody glove, something more.

And if a cachet of trophies can.

Remain hidden in the sand for forty years, then what else could still be out there buried on the beaches.

Of Long Island.

I'm Josh Zemon, and this is monster hunting the Long Island serial killer.

Prosecutors in the Gilgo Beach murder case have revealed new evidence.

It comes as suspected serial killer Rex Huerman remains behind bars without bail, Local state, and federal authorities outlining today years of quiet evidence collection against Schureman leading to an indictment reading like a movie thriller.

For those of us who have been following the list case, who were starred answers by a police department intent on hiding the truth, the indictments released by the DA's office read light chapters in a detective novel, each court document revealing more pieces to a puzzle we've been trying to solve for years.

Reading between the lines, they were also signaling to those of us scrutinizing their every move that this time there would be no mistake.

Although some might contend it was actually rex Huerman himself, who gave them all the proof they needed.

Prosecutors say they've scoured devices from Huerman's home.

And office, and among that evidence several hard drives and.

About twenty five hundred pages of documents and photographs.

Let's consider for a moment the psychological thriller seven, in which the killer remains completely analog and therefore anonymous, hence his name John Doe, as he writes down every sadistic detail of his crimes by hand, the marble notebooks lining his bookshelves being his only paper trail.

There are two thousand notebooks on these shelves, and each notebook contains on top two hundred and fifty.

Pages scat anything about the killings.

What sick, ridiculous puppets we are, and what a gross little stage we dance on?

What fun we have?

Not knowing that we are nothing?

We are not foot was intended.

But that's fiction, not reality.

The real world is far.

Too complicated to intertwined, and try as we might to hide it, the trail of our secrets will never disappear, which brings us to the paradox of rex Hureman, a man who went to extraordinary lengths to avoid detection, counting surveillance cameras along a highway, using Burner's cell phones and fake email addresses, utilizing software to erase digital files.

Yet at the same time he was a pack rat who held onto hundreds of electronic devices, even an old pompilot from two thousand and three which revealed his wife's vacation dates in his gun club activities the week Jessica Taylor was killed, and the evidence went on and on.

Investigator seized three hundred and fifty electronic devices from Huerman's home, including his significant collection of torture pornography.

Including Burner phones.

They say he used to contact sex workers as recently as last year, eight terabytes of data with thousands of photos on four hard drives.

But beyond the digital evidence he refused to throw away, there was also a compelling amount of physical evidence.

Investigators alleged Huberman kept souvenirs.

Authorready say a search warrant of his home in Long Island and Manhattan office uncovered multiple newspaper clippings about the murders.

Among the items were a two thousand and three New York Post article titled serial killer eyed in Sleigh nineteen ninety three News Day article headlined body is covered in woods.

The Yellow New York Post article from two thousand and three found in Humerman's bedroom detailed the murder of Valerie mac and Jessica Taylor, while the nineteen ninety three Newsday article found down in the basement in the safe reference Sondra Castilla.

But it was DNA that would create the ultimate trifecta.

Hairs found on Meggae Waterman's body and the burlap bindings match Rex Huerman.

A hare found on a belt used to bind Barnes matches the DNA profile of Huerman's life Aza Ellerup, and a hair found on Amber Costello's body matches Huerman's daughter Victoria.

Investigators say DNA analysis linked hair found near Max's left wrist to Huerman's wife and daughter.

While Rex was seemingly meticulous in his attempts to evade capture DNA evidence, his own hairs, those of his wife Asa, and his daughter Victoria were found on all the victims.

Ace Allarup was Rex's second wife.

They married in nineteen ninety six, and together they raised Ace's special needs son, Christopher, aged thirty five, from a previous marriage, and their own daughter Victoria, aged twenty eight, who worked at her father's architecture firm.

Yet, in the days after Human's arrest, many began to question how could his wife and child not know they were living with a cereal or did they now and were somehow involved.

In a case like Rex Huerman's.

Sadly, there are other people whose lives are ruined.

Rex had a family, wife, kids, who did not invite any of this.

You mean to tell me you married couple for twenty seven years doesn't know what's going on downstairs.

Despite Outlandish's claims suggesting that Asa and her children were somehow complicit, it's far more likely that they had been groomed for decades by a master manipulator.

The family's attorney theorizes Asa has been experiencing Stockholm syndrome.

Court documents also outlined another disturbing detail of Rex's double life, the planning of his murders around his family's trips out of town.

The DA also saying that at the time that Maureen Brainerd Barnes went missing, Chureman's wife and kids were in Atlantic City.

We learned of a.

Date book showing his wife out of town.

During Jessica Taylor's disappearance in two thousand and three.

There is absolutely no evidence that anyone acted with the defendant, much less his family.

The DA's office contends beyond a doubt that Rex's wife and children were not involved in any of his crimes, and they've gone a great lengths to prove they were out of town during every murder.

The only murder where they were not away was out of Valerie Mack in two thousand, which leads to the unsettling question where did Rex commit her murder and could reveal other victims of the Long Island serial killer?

The hunter is learning every kill do he take something away from it?

And then there was the issue that had divided Suffolk County police and criminologists alike, that being the issue of one Killer verse two, as in why had list dismembered some victims.

While others were found intact?

It seems the clue to unraveling the mystery may be buried in one of the most disturbing documents ever created by a killer, A document human believed he had erased until it was recovered by computer forensics.

A blueprint carefully crafted by an architect that detailed not just how to commit murder, but how to get away with it?

For years.

The task force discovered a Microsoft word document.

This is a planning document and it was utilized by Uromin to methadically blueprint and plan out his skills with excruciating detail.

Which brings us back to June six, twenty twenty four, and to that live stream with detectives Joe jack Alone and David Sarney.

As the Suffolk County DA released Turemann's planning document to the public.

In twenty twenty three, the giggl task Force sees the hord drive from human residents.

The task force found the Microsoft word document be planning documents.

He's already listing problems, fingerprints, DNA, he already knew about it back then.

He's knowing about police stock, dealing with his truck.

If it gets stuck, what.

Do you do?

But one of the things that struck us and frankly everyone else was a number of references to a book Huerman had researched and studied.

The book he used to plan these murders.

Wow, folks, he's reading Mindhunter by John Douglas.

He's researching.

He never thought that serial killers are reading and researching it became perfected.

He perfected his craft.

This is a guy perfecting this even this is absolutely insane.

Misleader misleaders, even too he put misleaders.

What could misleader the investigations problems?

We allege that the defendant was looking at mind Hunter, which was written by a FBI serial killer analyst, not to gain insight into the mind of a serial killer.

He was looking to gain insight into how it is that investigators capture serial killers.

So as Wrex using Mindhunter and the expertise of the Behavioral Analysis Unit to evade capture, employing forensic countermeasures such as just memboring his victims not only to prevent their identification, but scattering their remains in Nassau County to exploit the territorialism of Suffolk County to add another layer of confusion to the investigation.

And what about misleaders?

Was he changing his MO to suggest more than one killer?

MO is malleable?

It changes over time because of fenders, especially guys like Heyerman, as we know from the planning document, learn to be better.

They learn when they make a mistake, and they don't make that mistake again.

Delving further into humans, shifting m and his Mindhunter connection.

I spoke with Mark Saffrick, a former profiler for the FBI's Behavioral Analysis Unit who trained under the legendary John Douglas, author of Mindhunter.

Mind Hunter provides some interesting things to think about.

For instance, Castillo, the first victim, is found relatively quickly intact, so that was probably disturbing to him that she's found quickly.

In order to prevent them from being found and prevent them from being identified, he starts to engage in dismemberment.

Remember also that Joel Rifkin is in the same area that Heyerman is in, and he's in the years immediately proceeding when Rex is acting out.

Between nineteen eighty nine and nineteen ninety three, Joel Rifkin dismembered seventeen victims, typically sex workers he picked up in Manhattan before scattering the remains across.

New York and New Jersey.

Rifkin lived in East Meadow, just ten miles from Rex's home in Massapuga Park.

Rifkin is also caught on June twenty eighth, nineteen ninety three.

Just five months later, on November twentieth, Sanders remains are discovered.

Rifkin confessedival he's about killing seventeen prostitutes in New York State in the last two years.

To be able to corroborate what he has told us means that we're going to have to analyze all of the older case files from any police department that we think might be involved.

He had to know about Rifkin because he'd spent his whole life in massapequ Well.

So he clearly aware of Rifkin and what Rifkin was doing in terms of dismembering the victims and spreading those body parts to different counties to confuse law enforcement.

If it's anyone who knows Rifkin, it would be Mark Saffric, who sat down with him for lengthy interviews during his time at the Behavioral Analysis Unit.

As for Rex Chuerman, his alleged behavior supports Saffric's assessment.

After Santa Caristilla had been found, the killer's next four victims had all been dismembered and the remains scattered between Suffolk and Nassau counties.

I think that he got that idea from reading the book.

If you go into Douglas's book, Douglas interviewed ed Kemper Kemper is another guy who dismembered victims and then put their body parts in different counties to confuse law enforcement, which it did.

I think Hoyerman would have read and he would have thought, Okay, you know this makes sense.

Kemper told Pueblo police that he had previously killed six college girls in the Santa Cruz area.

He was kind of an odd man.

He didn't say much.

He seemed like kind of a mama's boy.

Ed.

Kemper was a brutal and statistic killer convicted of dismembering seven women and one girl in the early nineteen seventies, one victim being his own mother.

But his conversations with profilers John Douglas and Robert Wrestler, fictionalized in David Fincher's series Mindhunter, also reveal a killer who is disturbingly self aware.

People who hunt other people for a vocation.

All we want to talk about is what it's like shit that went down, entire fucked upness of it.

Right, Sure, Well, it's hard work physically and mentally.

I don't think people realize you need to vent.

The Kemper Hureman connection is kind of interesting, right, I.

Think it's interesting because it's in the book, and if you're reading about Ed Kemper, he's also a very intelligent guy.

He thought about the process.

Also, you Knowman's a big guy, he's kind of like this ogre right, and Kemper was a big guy, right, So they both have to know whether my size is going to be intimidating to the women that I'm trying to connect with.

So that's why I think there's that connection.

As for changing Mos, Saffik believes Huerman stopped dismembering because he felt he didn't have to because he had been so active for so many years and still hadn't been caught.

As for Mindhunter, he believes Hureman wasn't trying to learn from profilers as much as he was trying to learn from those serial killers, the ones he had a connection with Rifkin because of proximity and Kemper because of his size, trying to learn from both how to not get caught.

He had two role models for that.

He had Joel Riffkin in terms of how long Rifkin was able to get away with the murders that he did, and then Kemper.

I think for him it impacts him Kemper was like six', nine like three hundred, Pounds so he did these dry runs to see what the reaction.

Was are they not going to go with?

You because of the way you.

Look it would not surprise me That heyerman would have done something, similar like made an appointment to meet.

Somebody SO i don't think That castillo was probably his first.

Victim he likely had others because again he's, thirty, right.

So you think he has killed Before Sondra, CASTILLO i don't.

KNOW i think that's difficult to.

Say could there be somebody?

Earlier?

Absolutely DO i always think that we identify every serial killer's.

Victims.

No, inevitably any attempt to understand serial murder to ask why leads back to the age old debate of nature Versus and while scientific advances have shown genetic predispositions to violence what the press is called the serial killer, gene there's still no such marker for understanding premeditated, murder nor the rare type of cereal known as a sexual.

Sadist, hence why we need to go back to the, beginning to a Small Long island town in the nineteen seventies to uncover the story of how a tormented boy transformed into a so called suburban.

Monster.

Again Here's John, Parisi rex's childhood.

Friend, well when we were growing up and we played on the, block we would all take turns and Host in other, Words monday will be a teachs, House wednesday will be A joe's.

House and he was the only kid that never hosted.

ANYTHING i had people.

Over in that close knit.

Community it was the hero and home that stood.

Apart Despite rex's father being successful aerospace, engineer Their humoran home was, uninviting dilapidated and, dark with peeling paint and broken, panels, indicative you might, say Of rex's, proclusive domineering.

Father tell me About rex's.

Dad rectioner's.

Father he was, scary six foot, five three hundred, pounds very, intense very Angry German.

Man he was very.

Abusive we were scared For, rex, like, oh my, goodness even to get.

Killed how did his father?

Die his father died of an alcohol related.

SICKNESS i was told there was hush, hush there wasn't much said about.

It but he was only.

Thirteen that's, tough you, know that's tough for.

Anybody.

LISTEN i wanted to give the other side of.

This my heart goes out to the young girls and their.

Families i'm not trying to make any excuses for what he.

DID i have a master's in mental health and substance.

ABUSE i believe in improving the human condition at the end of the, day that's what it's all.

About As rex grew older and, larger he became an increasingly visible, target, paradoxically his imposing size making him more of a victim and not.

Less when he was in like fifth or sixth, grade he was like five, eight five.

Nine they picked on that.

Kid they were.

Unforgiving the kids used to ambush, him and you couldn't beat him one or a, month so three or four kids would jump.

Him and then when he got to like junior high, school then they started, realizing oh my, god he's gonna kill.

Me he was almost six foot, four two hundred and eighty pounds being.

Excluded it takes as, toll it really, does and that's what happened To.

Rex we always knew That rex was bullied in, school based upon newspaper, reports but what we didn't realize was the exact nature of that bullying and which experiences would prove psychologically damaging.

Sixteen year old girls could be.

CRUEL i, mean if they don't like.

You then and again he was his own worst.

Enemy he would ask girls out and they would laugh in his, face and we'd all have been rejected whatever.

Reason to.

Him that rejection was, devastating especially how it was.

Done you ever hear the expression if you kick the dog enough, times the dog doesn't get up.

Anymore the exactly what happened to.

Him, psychologically he was.

Done he was.

Toast by the time he got to ten to eleventh, grade any sense of normalcy was, gone completely.

Gone Rex is bullying isn't unique among serial.

Killers in, fact many of the killers profiled in books Like mindhunter share this common threat of childhood humiliation and social, rejection Including rex's alleged role Model Joel.

Rifkin it's very interesting because we had always thought that there was a lot of bullying going, on and it's very.

Common Joel, rifkin Another Long island serial, killer right.

Bullied but when you said that he had been bullied by, women a light bulb went.

Off, yeah they would be mean to, him and his hatred of women manifested.

Himself you, know knowing WHAT i, Know, now he had issues with his.

Mother the father was very abusive and the mother didn't protect her.

Son so that was the beginning of his hatred for.

Women and he's a.

Psychopath you didn't see those girls as human, beings you saw them as.

Objects all of this collectively manifested himself and Made rex who he.

Became we all Created.

Rex that includes his, family that includes the, bullyingesschool that includes not being.

Accepted we all created.

Him, yes if we had death penalty and he's proven, responsible he should got a lethal.

Injection so we all got to look in the.

Mirror If John paresi's view Of rex human seems overly, sympathetic it's BECAUSE i later learned that he too had been.

Bullied, yeah we both.

Agreed while many have been relentlessly bullied or have had abuse of, fathers most don't go on to become The Long island serial.

Killer according to clinical psychologist Doctor Joni, johnson it's only the rarest of breeds that crosses that line into true.

Darkness in your clinical, assessment what type of individual are we dealing with?

Here there's a.

Couple of different terms you can, use but he's basically a sexually sadistic serial.

Killer he's actually the worst nightmare of.

Anybody he is somebody who doesn't just hurt.

People it's the pain and the fear and the domination that is the turn on for.

Him if you just look at the pornography that he, consumed that was really what turned him.

On that, sadism which is very very different from somebody who's into Medsm bdsma's the consent that is a turn on with sexually motivated serial.

Killers it's the lack of consent and is the turn, on.

Right, Right but how does somebody become a sexual?

Sadist what creates?

That it seems so.

Foreign it is, foreign AND i have thought about.

THIS i cannot tell you the number of TIMES i frought about it is oftentimes it starts in.

Childhood you have a predisposition of a kid who is not very empathetic, naturally so it has some kind of.

Predisposition but then they have these pure interactions that are.

Humiligating and we know That Rex human got bullied horribly again high, school so this anger starts building.

Up if you have over controlling, parents then oftentimes the kid learns to suppress their.

Emotions so fantasy is a very common escape for.

Children, right this is taking a different.

Form those fantasies are, angry they're.

Resentful and then sometimes what, HAPPENS i think really is a tipping point for Sexual, saydanism is that these fantasies starts continuing along with puberty as he's developing this interest in.

Sex he's got all these fantasies and they start colliding a.

Little they start going on that rabbit hole and they encounter violent crynography and it becomes more and more.

Consuming but there's got to be something In rex's personality that takes to the next.

Level typically what happens is there some life event that happens that moves that person from fantasizing about, it thinking about, it to planning.

It but it's also a lack of.

Empathy, right there was something a little bit, missing a little bit off that he's kind of born that way to some.

Extent so, yes there is typically always this kind of predisposition meets trauma meets situation and that's where you get the perfect.

Storm but if his life trajectory had gone, differently you, know he wouldn't have ended up where he potentially is.

Now there is a famous story About Joe rifkin saying that he walked into a library wanting to know why he felt the things that he, felt and on one shelf was the psychology, book and on the other shelf was a book About Gary, ridgeway The Green River.

Killer and this was a moment in his.

Life it could have gone either, way and he picked up the book About Gary.

Ridgeway and once that, happens whether they're saying it to themselves or, not they've made a.

Decision i'm going to do.

It in that endless debate about nature versus, nurture there's a famous saying genetics loads the, gun but environment pulls the.

Trigger but when it comes to the case of cerial murder and To, lisk when all that planning turns into something, more it's the hunter's, decision and the hunter's decision alone to pull the, trigger revealing what may be the ultimate paradox of the alleged rex.

Hureman for a man who's so seemingly large and so, strong it's shocking how small and how weak he truly, is too weak to overcome the trauma inflicted upon.

Him he chose instead to pass that trauma out of so many.

Others now is how many others.

Do you believe that he's killed?

Again after Amberlim, Costello.

It's hard for me to imagine that he is.

Not The fact that law enforcement acted when they did because he was actively solictening and starting to go that path again is very concerning to.

Me, again if you're thinking of sexual, sadism where the primary arousal is the infliction of pain and, suffering then that would hypothetically open a lot of doors into who your victims.

Are now that we understand Rex huermann's disturb, beginnings coming from an alcoholic father in a broken home to snatching clothes out of girls', lockers we can begin to see his.

Evolution the question now is when Did rex allegedly make that choice to pull the trigger for.

The first time and how many times?

Since because according To Thomas, hargrove investigative journalists and founder of The Murder Accountability, project there are plenty of unsolved cases On Long island that we need to.

Consider there was never any debate as to whether this was a serial case once The Gilgo beach bodies were, Recovered but what about the dozens and dozens of other?

Women if we go back to two thousand and, nine before anybody was dug up At Gilgo, BEACH i would have told you you probably have a serial.

KILLER i first Met Thomas hargrove back in twenty fifteen during the filming Of The Killing, season when he had just founded The Murder Accountability, project a nonprofit that analyzes homicide data from law enforcement across The United.

States tom uses algorithms to identify patterns of serial murder that law enforcement CANNOT i recently sat down With tom so he can walk me through The Murder accountability's latest, database a map that shows you how to toggle through jurisdictions and victim profiles to identify homicidal patterns in the form of big red.

Circles if you go to our website the county clusters section and then you pick female for, victim you'll see the patterns that we now CALL lisk For Long island Serial.

Killer you'll see a giant circle sitting Over Long, island and that's the algorithm still pinging something bad happened In Long.

Island hargrove's algorithm has been screaming About Long island for, years long before the first body was discovered At Kilgo.

Beach now WHERE i start to, question is is there another dumping?

Ground because we believe that there might.

Be we've got some individuals.

HERE i, mean did that say?

Five look at that twenty ten?

Four some of those are the First Gilgo beach.

Victims, okay got, It but then what's?

That that's the other?

SIX i believe the pattern goes back further than.

That as we continue to pour over the, DATA i was stunned to see the emerging pattern traced back much earlier than the murder Of Santra.

Castia this is very.

Interesting for, example the first list that we know of theoretically is nineteen ninety.

Three the killer was.

An active much younger than.

That when you see the clustering starting where it is overwhelmingly, READ i would say nineteen eighty two eighty.

Three lisk was active from the early Eighties Antel Gilgo.

Beach according To hargrove's, algorithm the pattern of outdoor female homicides stretches back to the early nineteen, eighties meaning Rex huerman allegedly may have been killing for over forty, years potentially starting in his twenties when he is first.

An employee At John's.

Beach what has been your interactions with The Suffolk County Police.

DEPARTMENT i spoke to the annual meeting of the twenty seventeen Mid Atlantic Homicide Investigators, association and there were several detectives From Long, island and so we had a little chat on the side AND i, said, guys ten is not the right.

Number you, know ten is not the right.

Number AND i showed them the data that you just looked, at and they agreed that the pattern was far larger than just the bodies recovered At Gilgo.

Beach AND i, said it's more than.

Forty they all solemnly nodded and, said, yes, sir we know.

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