Hey, Elon Inc.

Listeners.

Max Chafkin here, I know you and I and everybody else are still sort of recovering from that monster episode that we published on Tuesday.

I wanted to just record a little introduction to the latest episode of Everybody's Business, which we just taped and which is really interesting.

It is about salary cap and sports.

Really awesome conversation there, as well as a conversation with Rohit Chopra about the future of the FED, and there is a little Elon related Easter egg.

It is a unique branding story involving SpaceX.

I'll just leave it there, but it's a pretty funny segment.

I think you'll like it, and we, of course will be back talking about Elon Musk on the Everybody's Business Podcast with Dana and Kurt and all the people that you've been hearing on Elon Inc.

Very soon.

Hope you enjoyed the episode and talk to you later.

Bloomberg Audio Studios Podcast Radio News.

This is Everybody's Business from Bloomberg BusinessWeek.

I'm Max Shafton and I'm Stacy Vannick Smith and.

Stacy we have a big conversation coming up about your favorite topic, the Federal Reserve.

Our guest is Rohitschopra.

He was a big deal guy in the Biden administration and he has provocative things to say about Jerome Powell.

We're also talking about salary caps in professional sports leagues.

Teams and players have been finding some pretty interesting ways around those limitations.

And our underrated story, Stacy, I have a idea, a brand idea for Elon Musk.

Warning may not be leaked.

I will keep that in mind.

Okay.

Obviously, the big economic news this week was the Federal Reserve, but we also got some pretty big business news last night.

We're recording Thursday morning.

We should say, yeah, another late night host is down, Stacy amid some political pressure from the Trump administration.

Disney essentially pulled Jimmy Kimmel, who is the ABC late night host, a competitor to Stephen Colbert, off the air, amid political pressure from the Trump administration.

For me, this story really has echoes of the one that we talked about with Felix Gillette a couple weeks ago with Stephen Colbert, where you have a combination of factors.

One is the threat of regulation of not approving mergers, and the other is like this format the late night format is basically failing, and all of these late night shows are not doing well.

So Trump is giving these networks essentially an excuse to kill a product that is not working super well.

I would argue the bigger story in a certain way, could be a potential threat to free speech and news organizations feeling like if one of their hosts or commentators says something or does something that the administration disagrees with, they might end up facing the very real wrath of like governmental regularly.

Yeah, one hundred percent.

And we have another story related to political pressure that just so happens to me going.

On right now.

We have another story related to political pressure, which is the Federal Reserve.

For the first time this year, the Federal Reserve cut interest rates, which we were all kind of expecting.

But there was a cut it by three hundred percent, right as Donald Trump want.

Yeah, a quarter of a percentagey, which was like what was expected but by economists.

Yes, well, there there was a lot of drama around this.

We will get into kind of what was going on behind the scenes with Row hitch Chopra in just a minute.

But the Fetchair did say something that I thought was kind of interesting for the rest of us, us in the economy, which is he he started to talk about stagflation, how prices are going up, how the economy is slowing down, and this is a really dangerous combination.

And so I thought I would like ask people how they were feeling about the economy right now.

How do you feel about the economy right now?

I'm not good.

All the prices are going up, and not especially food shopping.

Before you could just put everything in your cart, and now you have to start cutting back on things.

It's a real have and have not economy.

And you know, you look around, people are making a lot of money, and some professions and the champagne's flowing and in others, you know, things are definitely a lot tighter.

I kim here because this is the only not.

Going to fall right now.

The pizza the dogphis to slice.

Yeah.

Yeah, when I got the job, I think I'm going to go back to like chicken and eggs.

Eggs are like a luxury a little bit exactly.

Is there something that like, if you had more money or felt better about the economy, something.

That you would buy.

It's a new car.

What's your car like now?

It's a terrible Nissan that keeps having one hundred problems because it's almost at ninety thousand.

Miles, Prices going up, economic opportunities stagnating.

There's a word for that stacy that is that's Stagflation's stagulation.

It's the worst of all the plations, I think.

And it's like kind of a.

Trap for the Federal Reserve because if they cut interest rates, it does help grow the economy, but it can also make inflation worse, so it puts everybody in tough position.

Yeah, and it's not clear to me what the fix is at this point.

I mean, we are we've got economic challenges that I don't know, you know, whatever you feel about Jerome Powell or whoever's running the Fed, Like, I don't know how fixable it is at this point.

Well, I agree, and like prices are going up and with tariffs are going to go up more, at least a little bit more.

It could be a one time thing, but it is a really tough position, Like it's not obvious what they should do.

But the Federal Reserve yesterday said jobs right now are the most important, and I think most of us would probably agree.

Although if inflation gets out of control.

That could be really bad.

So Max, we talked earlier in the show about the big economic news of the week, which is the Federal Reserve and interest rate cuts, and somehow everyone in the country like knows about out the Federal Reserve and interest rates.

Now it has become huge news.

Yeah, And we've also been talking about this question of like FED independence and the sense that Trump and members of his administration are doing things to kind of attack the FED or to push them in various directions.

And I was excited about the conversation we're going to have because we've been sort of talking about the FED.

And I know this is kind of partly how you feel, but some of it has to do with conventional was whatever, like that there is this beautiful jewel of public policy that is the US Federal Reserve.

I am a.

Huge fan of the central Bank and like the structure of it and the system.

And I appreciate that, but I also thought it'd be fun to have a guest who would kind of challenge that a little bit.

Fair enough, Yes, I mean, I think it's good to challenge these things.

That's what they're there for, all right.

So we have Rohit Chopra, who was the director of the Consumer Financial Production Bureau under Joe Biden.

He served on the FTC under Trump, helped actually set up the CFPB as its assistant director.

Basically, he is a heavyweight on the kind of like progressive left, and he has kind of an interesting perspective on these issues, and I thought it'd be fun to kind of hash it out here.

Roha, thanks for being here, Thanks.

So much for having me.

So we got the rate cut, that was the big headline quarter of a percentage point rate cut, but there was a lot of stuff going on behind the scenes that was also making news.

Do you mind just kind of laying out some of the things happening in the FED right now, which has always loomed very large in my world, but is somehow also looming large in the regular world now.

Very strange, Yes, Stacy.

There had these sets of meetings to determine what to do with those interest rates, and it had to have been a really awkward meeting because one of the governors who was going to vote there sitting deliberating and voting, was actually the target of an attempted firing by President Trump.

That's Lisa Cook, who is battling in court.

She has won many rounds of that court room battle and cast to vote.

Another person sitting in that room is newly confirmed Governor Stephen Myron, who is currently the chair of the Council of Economic Advisors and is in some ways dual hatting taking both jobs, which is unusual.

Now anyway, just in general in the work for economy.

It's for everybody now.

Yeah, And this comes after, of course, months and months of the President targeting J.

Powell, essentially trolling him online and infamously showing up in hard hats to do a site inspection of a construction project.

So right now there is a lot of debate about what's the right role for the President and Congress in the Federal Reserve, and a lot of people are fiercely defending the status quot But I think the story is sometimes triggier than that.

Well, also we should say that Stephen Myron, who was in his new role this is his first time voting on interest rates, was the loan dissenter and very much in line with what the President has said he wanted.

Myron said he wanted like a bigger cut, bigger cutt Yes, bigger cut.

So Rohit.

You have thoughts about the FED, and and we've talked, you know, off off this podcast about this a little bit.

But I'd love for you to just explain when you say like they're sort of assuming everything's great or whatever, like what you mean or like at a high level, like what is wrong with the FED today?

Yeah, Well, I would put it this way.

There's lots of reasons why in a democratic society we create some anti democratic features in certain parts of our government.

For example, we make sure the judges are confirmed for life, the idea being this should stand for election all the time.

Be subjected to the political process.

And we also cordon off some of our regulators to make sure that they're not put in the middle of a total political slugfest.

That's some of the agencies I've served at, the CFPB, the FTC, others.

And then you really have the Federal Reserve System, which has in many ways an enormous amount of power.

We talk about it as a central bank, but another way to put it, it's a price control agency.

It sets the price and supply of money that has so much effect throughout the entire economy.

And one of the things that is important to me is that even.

If an agency is independent, it can't be unaccountable.

And I think there is questions about whether the FED has always been accountable to the public or if it's often serving the interests of a narrow set of financial stakeholders and really prime Among those examples is the Fed's lack of preparation when it came to an epidemic of subprime mortgage lending, for which the Federal Reserve had an enormous amount of authority to crack down on, chose not to, and the results were really catastrophic.

So what would your vision be for a FED going forward?

If it's not a politicized FED, but it's not the FED it is?

Now Like, what if you were designing.

It and the CFPB is part of the funded?

Is it technically part of the bed?

Or Okay, yeah, so you've been in the I don't want.

To say the belly of the beast, but I'll just say it, belly of the beast.

How would I want it?

I actually do think it's really important for us to think what is the role of these Federal Reserve banks.

Remember it's not just a Federal Reserve Board appointed by the President.

There are also federal reserve banks.

We're sitting some of them all over the est.

We're sitting uptown.

From an extremely powerful one at the Federal Reserve Board of New York.

I think we also have to make sure that do we have the right structure in terms of allocating what powers the FED should use as to what powers should be located elsewhere.

I think there are some legitimate criticisms about the Fed's expansive view of its interpretation of law, including its interventions in money markets and other actions that have moved the flow of credit away from local banks toward the global money markets that has a real impact on our economy.

I mean, one thing that I find really interesting is on some level, Stephen Meran, the new governor, is like a total He's like a trunk guy, right, He's a white house economic He seems like a loyalist.

On the other hand, he in addition to being those things, he has advocated for some of the very things that you're talking about right now.

And like reading there was an Elizabeth Warren op ed that you pointed me to back in August essentially bring up some of these issues that you're talking about right now.

And there was an op ed by Scott Besson in the Journal just a couple of weeks later that has kind of a very similar, very different words Like Bessen is using kind of conservative buzzwords.

He accuses the FED of like gain of function.

Monetary policy, little little COVID hat tip there, but kind of ultimately pointing in the same direction.

Right, Yeah.

I think what you're seeing is not a political debate about it, but what's the right place for this institution.

When the financial crisis occurred, there was a lot of discussion about whether core consumer regulation should ever be at the FED.

Every FED governor I have spoken to you likes to say I'm glad the Fed's powers were stripped and a CFPB was created because that was last on our list of attention.

Well, yeah, you've got inflation, you've got unemployment numbers like those.

Are two big I mean the dual manda totally, it's a big deal.

And I think that there's there we got to ask ourselves what do we want them doing.

I think what we want them doing is stewarding the money supply in ways that creates stability, that still create the conditions for growth.

And I would also argue trying to ensure that the United States has a currency that a payment system that is working.

But there's a lot of things that they do, including on the regulatory front, where there's long been concern that they are captured by big Wall Street interest rather than representing the borrowers and the business owners that are really affected by their decisions.

It feels like what you're saying partly is like, hey, there's there's a lot at play right now.

It's kind of an opportunity to think about where where should the FED go?

Like what what what what should the.

FED look like?

And part of me wonders if like we're just sort of playing fantasy politics here, because like the CFPB is gone basic.

I mean CFPP is still technically.

Exists there, but it's not doing anything.

And and Trump, you know, maybe like there are there are a bunch of these like populist ideas that are are floating around the Trump administration, but he's actually doing is like goosing the stock market.

And it's like this conversation we're having feels very far away from what's actually happening.

And I was wondering, like, do you see opportunities for for change that that could actually happen in this direction during you know, the next whatever three years.

So Max I would I would push.

Back a little on that, which is that, of course it's idiotic to to defund and defang the CFPB.

That's just stupid, and I agree with that.

But the truth is is that the FED has changed dramatically over the years without any legal change.

It happens because of those governors and chairs who sit in those seats.

The concept of federal reserve independence actually is relatively new.

It's from the last generation where there was acceptance around the world that some insulation from politics was beneficial to achieving stable prices.

But you'll start seeing with people who are now sitting in those seats, many of them who want to salute the president rather than really focus on their mandate.

That's going to change this FED.

There are going to also be people who really are thinking differently about what those tools are, and I think we have to pay attention to that.

There's a ready rumblings what's going to be the Fed's role in stable coin and crypto?

Would the FED potentially not just target one interest rate but intervene in the market with their balance sheet in other ways.

I don't think you need a law change on some of that's fort to witness that change occurring.

And frankly, a great example is that Donald Trump has not changed a lot of laws in this country, but he has changed a lot of agencies pretty dramatically.

And we need to really think and debate what is it that we want our FED to be doing, because again, I just don't think independence should ever mean unaccountable.

I mean, obviously things are changing a lot right now.

If you kind of project forward, looking at some of the changes that are possibly going to happen, and some of the changes that have already happened, like what does the Federal Reserve look like in five years?

I think there should be quite less power when it comes to bailouts and backdoor bailouts.

Especially Congress did was very angry about the FEDS backdoor bailouts and frankly, front door bailouts during the financial crisis curtailed that.

I do think it is important.

To really limit the power to backstop and pick and choose winners and losers in the financial sector.

I think we have to do things that give them less ability to subsidize certain types of activities.

Borrowing by hedge funds, borrowing by some other financial institutions and get them focused on their core mandate, especially when it comes to making sure that they are a lender of last resort for local banks, running a stable monetary policy, and not being seen by presidents as a cure all to nacked their agendas with no consent from the governed.

Have you converted?

I mean, I.

Still am I this is quite a look.

I'm I'm sorry.

I mean, I don't.

I'm not sure.

I like, totally, I'm not sure.

I really think a good central bank is like really good for democracy and really good for people.

But I think it has to also change with the time so that it is responsive and that it is not seen as a group of priests and priestesses who make determinations about our lives without really understanding how the economy is working on the ground.

There is something of an ecclesiastical vibe around the FED, that is true.

Yeah, I worry about this, Actually, I worry about that many of them spend their time traveling around the world to economics conferences.

In reality, Stacy, back in the day, there was actually a FED governor who was a hog farmer.

They really represented a broader swaff of America, and I don't think that's a bad thing.

See.

I think if they're going to be so above the fray, they should wear cool outfits like the Catholic Church.

They should have rogues and ceremonies and just either really lean into it or bring back the hot.

It would make the press conferences a lot more exciting to kind of.

Like a purple gown that he had to wear like whenever he.

In said it just the tie he went full down.

And by the way, you know, I'm not sure that we should be happy that usually they take unanimous votes and usually that everything is scripted.

We should probably want a degree of.

Debate when it comes to issues that are so important to our economy.

Yeah, that's true.

There should be descent, especially to a moment like now when.

The path forward is really is unclear and it seems like there are valid reasons to go in a bunch of directions.

Ro hitch Opra, thank you for being here.

Thanks again, Stacey.

I don't know if you've been following this, but there is a huge story in the world of sports happening right now, a sports business in particular involving one of the biggest stars in basketball, Kawhi Leonard one of the richest people in the world, Steve Bamber, the longtime executive of Microsoft.

I think he's the seventh richest person in the world and a massive tech company that the Justice Department described as a quote two hundred and forty eight million dollar scheme to defraud investors and lenders.

In brief, the NBA is investigating whether Bamber, the owner of the La Clippers, funnel payments through this weird tech company, which is called Aspiration to Kawhi Leonard, and in so doing circumvented the salary cap.

I know it sounds like really complicated, but like I'm telling you, this is everyone is.

Talking about this, and so I thought we would have to.

Talk about it, okay, okay, And to do that we have Randall Williams here, Bloomberg, BusinessWeek, sports columnists, Everybody's business regular.

Randall, how are you.

I'm doing all right, doing all right?

Thank you for having me.

So, Randald, what can you just give us the kind of like quick the one oh one on what this controversy is about?

What is accusation here?

Sure?

And like why why is it like causing people to sort of lose their minds?

It's a big deal.

Because sports leagues like the NFL and the NBA have something called a salary cap.

A salary cap is set up so that players are paid a specific amount and teams can only play players a specific amount.

And so what Balmber is accused of doing is going outside of that through this company called Aspiration, and then paying Kawhi Leonard even more than what he's already paid.

And I'm sure if we looked up Kawhi Leonard turnings, he's probably made close to half a billion dollars and he's making even more because of these accusations.

And this we should say this was originally reported on a podcast Pablo Torre Finds.

Out Right, the Great Pablotori.

Yeah, but the basic allegation is that Balmer, a rich guy who like he has more money than he knows what to he could do with, is like using his personal wealth to funnel money.

And essentially cheat.

All right, right, like this is this is this would be like a cheating thing.

In some ways.

Yes, I mean that salary cap issue is very fundamental to all the leagues because if you are able to pay someone outside of the salary cap, then then what could happen is that an owner could persuade a player, hey, don't go play here, because on top of the money that I'm already going to be paying you through the salary cap system, I'll get you a deal on the side.

And so why this is against the rules is that what happens is a sponsor can go to an owner and say, hey, I want to do a deal with let's just say Smow Joe from California, and the owner is then supposed to be like, Okay, that's fine, I'll connect you to and the owner's supposed to move out of the way.

In this case, that's not what's happening.

There's three parties involved.

Allegedly it's Bamber, it's Aspiration, and Kawhi Leonard, all working together to make sure that Kawhi Leonard gets paid.

And that's against the rule.

If Bomber had said, hey, here is Aspiration, you two make a deal, I think this will be perfectly fine.

But that's not what's being alleged.

So essentially, this player was hired by this company Aspiration, Like what what is this company supposed to do?

Saying like, what was he paid twenty eight million dollars to?

Yeah, yeah, what exactly was he?

What does the company do and what's he supposed to be endorsing.

So I'll read straight from ESPN because I think they summarize it the best.

Okay, this is think of Aspiration as a digital bank, but environmentally conscious.

The company's product includes savings accounts and debit cards with cash back from a select number of businesses who were quote doing the right thing, plus an option to plant a tree with every purchase roundup.

The company also offered access to investment funds that are one hundred percent fossil fuel free, so they.

Were essentially as iron or stand it, getting paid to plant trees for businesses that wanted to like see like an online bank do good or something sounds good?

Right?

Oh yeah, and this is where I should say Balmer has denied wrong doing.

Of course, Kawhi has said nothing, but I don't think anyone that's kind of his thing, right saying nothing.

But I don't even know if anyone's accused him of wrongdoing in this case because he just signed a sweetheart deal.

Also, Andre Cherney, who is the other co founder of Aspiration, has essentially disputed the story as well, saying this contract, which has been characterized as a no show job was not, in fact, a no show job, just getting all that stuff out of the way.

Go ahead, Stacy.

So I guess my question is why is this such a big deal.

First of all, why are their salary caps in place?

And why is it a like, why is it a big deal that they're going over the salary Sure.

Salary caps are fairness.

I mean, if you look at baseball in particular, there are baseball teams that just can afford to Baseball does not have a salary cap, to MLB does not, and so moneyball right, Yes, I mean that's a good example.

But if you look at the Yankees, if you look at the Dodgers, there are two of the highest spending teams in the MLB.

Now do they always win, No, but they give they win a lot, and it is in some ways some people say it is an advantage in the NFL and the NBA not so much.

There is a salary cap, so everybody has the exact same money to spend.

Now you'll have owners who some fans would argue are not in the business of winning because the leagues are naturally profitable.

But at the same time, as it pertains to the salary cap, yes, the players are being paid.

A lot more.

But for the owners who really want to win, who this is their pride and joy.

If you find out that someone is manipulating the system and you were in the running to sign Kawhi Leonard, and Kawhi Leonard went to the Clippers because of the fact that he was offered an extra twenty eight million dollars to not show up, that's a problem.

And it's like a dummy job exactly.

And another thing about this is it is a no show job I have never seen.

And as Pabulatory reported, there are no tweets about from Kawhi Leonard about aspiration.

There was job supposed to be he was in.

This company, right, it was an endorsement.

Basically, there are all these things that Kawhi could or could not do, depending on how he felt about it.

So it's like some autographs he could tweet, but there are no there were no mechanisms in the contract essentially forcing him to do it, whereas in I think in most endorsement contracts.

You're required you've got to do something.

So an example of this, like a big endorsement deal, would be Nike with Lebron James.

He's everywhere that they ask him to be a smaller one is like nil deals in college name image and likeness deals in college was often are just like post on Instagram a couple of times and then we'll pay you out and that's that.

But Kawhi is not on social media.

I mean even in his new balanced advertisements, he's he doesn't say a lot, and even in press conference like no one has heard from him because outside of his media obligations, he does not speak.

To be clear, athletes are allowed to do endorsement deals.

It's just that your owner cannot be paying them outright.

To you without counting it against the right.

Without counting it against against the cap.

And there are there have been plenty of deals with teams, players and owners where again an owner will introduce someone to a sponsor and they go and do a deal, and then there's a billboard outside of a stadium with said sponsor and an athlete.

There's no NBA rules to prohibit that.

It's just in what Pabablatory reports is like, Balmer has invested in this company, some of his co owners have also invested in this company, and so the NBA has to do some due diligence and they're taking us very seriously.

I mean, do are CAP's a good idea or is it a better idea to just not have them, to not try to end up with like a baseball model.

I think cap systems are great because they stabilize things, like everyone can a team can spend a certain amount of money, and that's what it should be in my opinion.

I think that when you have different.

Markets like New York, like Los Angeles, like let's say Houston, some of the bigger markets who have big billionaires who are ready to spend on this because this is their business, then that can create some sort of inequality.

Now, at the same time, the players still have to get out on the field and perform all the same, but I think that it it creates more more stability when you have a cap system where this player is making this and this player is making that.

It's funny.

Stacy's reaction to this, I think we were talking earlier, is like these are such big numbers, you know, and like, wow, like seven million dollars for a no show job or an alleged no so job, Like that seems crazy.

The whole thing seems crazy.

My reaction was actually like it like I guess Kawhi Leonard is underpaid and like and and like didn't this to me feels like a evidence that the players negotiated a bad deal with the owners, Like that the salary cap should be a lot higher if there's just like twenty eight million dollars slashing around and you're probably lots more like like the players should just get just get paid more money, because clearly they're worth more money.

I hear you.

But I think in what various outlets ESPN the Athletic have reported over the years is that Kawhi Leonard was searching for money outside of the cap system even before this, when his free agency happened after he won the title in Toronto, there was there was reports that he was asking for private jet, a private jet access, and he was asking for deals outside of the salary.

I'm saying he's worth it.

I don't know.

I would argue that he isn't because of the fact that he's been injured a lot.

He doesn't play a lot, he's not the brand ambassador.

And when you have someone that you're spending I mean, look, that's putting a lot and being kind here, I'm being kind, But when you have someone that you're paying, let's say, three hundred million dollars to.

You do want them on the billboards.

You do want them to have some sort of a personality that isn't just a claw or or they're not just going to be like showing up to the press conference and say five words and then go home and you don't hear from them.

You want them to promote this brand.

So, Wendle, if we back up from this particular amazing case a little bit, does this say anything?

Do you think about the state of sports right now and pay and pay caps And I don't know what is your takeaway from this.

I don't think there's anything that huge that takeaway.

The only thing is that there's always going to be money under the table always, whether it be at the high school level, the college level, and at the pro sports level, that there are people who are willing finds a way exactly exactly.

There's always going to be people who are willing to pay you more should you not show up for a job and you know, play thirty percent of the games that you're required to.

That's my biggest takeaway.

If there was a player that was worth there are players who might be worth a no show job.

I just don't think Kawhi Leonard is the guy.

So that's why I made I want to not do anything.

You think the person should be more qualified, exactly exactly.

I don't look Kawhi Leonard's tenure at the Clippers hasn't been great, but all seriousness, I think there's always going to be money under the table, and this, allegedly is is another example of that.

We are too the part of the show where we talk about underrated stories.

Randall, thank you for sticking around because you don't know what the I also do not know what it is.

Apparently Max brought us something.

I am also a little nervous.

I don't know what is happening.

This is a story that gets at the future of technology, the future of branding, and also the future of cocaine.

Shoes of cocaine.

All right, So there were some news reports earlier this week about a plane crash in eastern Brazil.

These are news reports that are coming to us by way of the UK's Independent, by way of El Globo, the Brazilian newspaper, and essentially, a plane, a small aircraft crashed in Brazil, killing the pilot and authorities recovered two hundred kilos of cocaine, and the cocaine had branding for SpaceX, Elon Musk's rocket company.

Wow.

Now, okay, I want to say, first of all, it's not what you think.

This does not prove that Elon Musk has, you know, put aside rockets and cars and brand implants and all.

Relation is not to answer.

The under the drug business, although as we know he's not like totally averse to recreational drugs.

I don't think.

Yes.

But what I will say is what's interesting here is and this came out of a report I read advice.

You know, ilicit drug sellers have basically branded drugs with tech companies for a really long time, Like.

Is that true, like used to cocaine there, or like Skype?

The article ia that Skype had been used like like maybe ten years ago.

I guess, back when Skype was cooler.

I think it's actually kind of a way to see how cool your tech company is.

It's like if you have a under the table cocaine deal.

If like drug dealers are like this thing is so cool, I'm gonna stick it on.

That it makes cocaine even cooler than it already is.

That's what I'm saying.

Yeah, I thought cocaine kind of sold itself.

It's an achievement.

Are you going to branding like, oh, I don't I only I only snore SPAACEX cocaine.

I would never do.

I don't even feel comfortable if, first of all, never done cocaine ever.

Mean what if I were, I would not be doing Elon Musk branded cocaine.

Now, Randall, is that because you have questions about Elon Musk's capacity to like achieve things?

Or is it because you have questions about the kind of person who would stamp a SpaceX?

Oh?

God both.

I think that any person who has the time to brand something like this, I look, that's.

Just not me looks as Elon ink listeners.

If you've come over to the Everybody's business feed by now, well know I am deep in the lore.

And I will say, looking at the pictures of the cocaine that was stamped with the SpaceX branding, they didn't do.

Like a very good job.

The colors aren't quite right, like it's kind of like a light blue.

It just it just looks a little grainy.

Look.

It really looks like someone took an inkjet printer that was like a little low on this is like.

A discerning client.

Is it cyan or whatever the blue color was, and like the toner just it doesn't quite look right.

I just don't I think anyone who would be buying SpaceX cocaine.

Should just go to rehab.

That's just what I think.

I don't think that branding something like this.

It's not appealing to me.

If I was doing to be doing it elon musk.

No, it's also funny to me because like I don't even know the reason you do this, Like is it because if the authorities like poking the plane, You're like, no, no, no, we got SpaceX stuff.

In the plane.

Like it's just like bricks of cocaine.

Got to be people trying to get a marketing edge.

That's got to be what it is.

People feel like they're their cocaine will stand out in the marketplace of cocaine.

I get with SpaceX branding, but I just can't see someone being like, nah, man, I don't want the raw stuff.

I need the SpaceX.

Merrik exactly like this, this is this isn't what I'm looking for.

This is great value versus.

A brand markup right, I don't.

I just think this is significant because we've been talking.

I've been talking and writing stories about the way that Elon Musk has harmed his brand, his personal brand, as well as the brands of his companies.

You know, Tesla sales are in the toilet, but in the marketplace, obviously, some people still think that that brand is very strong.

He's winning somewhere.

This show is produced by Stacy Wong.

Magnus Hendrickson is our supervising producer, and Amy Kean is our executive Producerlake Maples is our engineer, and Dave Purcell factchecks.

Sage Bauman heads Bloomberg Podcasts Special thanks to Jeff Muscus, Julia Rubin and Maria Ling.

If you have a minute, please rate and review the show.

It means a lot to us.

And if you have a story that should be our business, email us at Everybody's at Bloomberg dot net.

That is Everybody's with an s at Bloomberg dot net.

Thank you for listening and see you next week.