Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics, where we discussed the top political headlines with some of today's best minds, and Donald Trump says, I'm really good at this stuff.

Period.

Your countries are going to hell.

We have such a great show for you today the Bulwark Zone.

Tim Miller stops by to talk about Trump's disasters speech at the UN Then we'll talk to Abortion every Days Jessica Valenti about how some Dems are floating running pro life candidates.

But first the news Somalia.

Last night we got news that the Supreme Court is gonna let Trump fire the head of the FTC and.

Oh boy, yeah, so look here it is the Supreme Court likes to take things on the shadow docket and let Trump get away with murder.

Basically, by the way, we know where this is going, right.

He wants to fire people in the fand he wants to fire Lisa Cook.

His dream is to fire Jerome Pale.

So we see where this is going.

And again, this is like one of these things I want to talk about because I think the Supreme Court really does think, or at least enough of them think that they can just sort of go along to get along.

But with every ruling like this, what they're doing is they are giving Trump more permission to do more.

And I don't think they realize that eventually they're going to come crashing into Trump's desire for autocracy, which is already we're already well in our way there.

And when that happens, they're going to eventually have to stand up to him, and he's going to be so furious, so he's going to fire the FTC.

Rebecca Slaughter.

But what's eventually going to happen here is that Trump is going to try to FIRELUSA Cook and then eventually, you know, he's trying to wrestle control of the FAT something that he is not constitutionally allowed to do, something that is not how any of this is supposed to work.

Something that's bad for the economy and bad for all of us.

And is this sort of Trump try to make America look like Venezuela.

But eventually he's going to come crashing into the Supreme Court.

And again the question will be will they roll over like Congress has and give up all their autonomy or will they push back?

And the answers we don't know yet.

Yep.

So Molly we've gotten progress in our Democratic leaders.

There's no longer strongly worded letters the requesting meetings, and Trump is turning them down.

You know, even very salty about this.

I find it reprehensible.

Yeah, in this podcast we talked to Tim Miller, and they're not great options here.

Democrats are not in the majority.

They're in the minority.

They wanted to have a shutdown meeting with Trump like the one that happened in twenty eighteen with Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer that created like a million memes of her with the glasses those salad days of when things were much less shitty.

I don't know what the answers here are.

They really wanted a meeting.

Trump said he was going to do a meeting, then he realized that it opened him up for criticism, so he canceled it.

Or maybe who knows He said the truth was, after reviewing the details of the unseious and ridiculous demands being made by the minority radical left Democrats in return for their votes to keep our thriving country open, I've decided that no meeting with their congressional leaders could possibly be productive.

So, I mean, he certainly saw that he could lose on this and decided not to do it.

There are not great options here.

Democrats are fighting for this healthcare premium money, so Obamacare will go up twenty percent if the premiums are funded.

Republicans want the premiums to be unfunded because they don't want to pay for it, and because also they want Obamacare to fail, just like they want the government to fail.

I mean, that's the secret of Project twenty twenty five when we did that whole documentary on it, was what we saw was that it's basically a war against government, good government, wanting government to get small and drafted in a baths up.

Republicans want Obamacare to fail.

Democrats want to try to keep the premiums lower in order to keep more people on it.

I think like there's an acceleration is case for this, which is like one of the big things Democrats did in twenty sixteen was they save voters from themselves.

They said, you know, we're not going to let this happen.

We're not going to let them repeal Obamacare.

We're not going to let this happen because you will be better off if we save it for you.

But voters voted for Trump again, so obviously, and you know, one of the things that we would hear in the twenty four psycho was always, well, he didn't do it last time, so he's not going to do it this time.

And they didn't understand the level of like blood, sweat and tears that came from Democrats who were able to prevent him from doing some of his wish list items.

So I am always thinking, like just part of me thinks they should just let it happen.

Part of me thinks they should try to ask for subpoena power so that they could have some hearings on what's happening, because at least then there's some ability to shine the light on this.

You know, right now they don't have power subpoena, they can't call hearings, they can't you know, they have everything has to be bipartisan or Republicans have to do it.

And so I think that that might be the smarter play.

But they're going to try, but they're not.

It's not going to work, right.

The CR is not going to They're not going to be able to get all this money into the CR.

And so the question is will they shut down the government or not, And you have to think like someone like Russ Vought wants the government shut down.

So I don't know, there aren't easy answers here, and I think Tim is right.

I think that they should be coming up the works more.

But I agree, I mean, they should be coming up the works more, and they should be just screaming from the rooftops more.

Yeah.

The key is is you make people see how unpopular all these policies are and get more visibility and drive down their approval and make them scared.

Because we see what happened in Chicago.

Okay, Molly, we had big news, you know, Charlie Kirk's memorial service.

In the middle of it, Trump's making a speech autism tomorrow.

You know.

Enough, we found out many things that are not true.

Cuba has virtually no autism.

Tail and all is the cause of autism.

I hope you weren't just pounding that daily while you were pregnant, because if so, you're dale pariah of a mother.

Jessica Valenti talks about this.

We talk about this sort of the misogyny, the anti woman stuff going on in this administration.

But part of the idea of blaming mothers for taking talent on and somehow til and all might cause autism.

By the way, first of all, doesn't cause autism.

Second of all, a lot of the Johnson and Johnson family are big Trump donors, So that is a delightful a little bit of you know, turns out if even if you give him tons of money, he will still lie about your product.

But more importantly, Donald Trump, he went crazy on health.

I think that's the way he said.

RFK would go crazy on health.

And he's sort of ad libbed.

He's great when he ad libs on health because he really is like, let the light in the body, my man is the doctor, is what I'm trying to say.

Do you not just find this to be the usual case of that.

A lot of Trump's second term is just a lot of him being like, too long, didn't read whatever that guy said.

Yeah, sure, get me to the next event.

Yeah no, Now I would love you to play the put too much fluids in the body, too many fluids in the babies, too many fluids.

Anyway, The point is a lot of crazy shit was said, but perhaps the craziest, according to Jesse Cannon and Me Too, Trump says that Cuba has virtually no autism.

I know you're going to be shocked to hear this, but Cuba does in fact have autism.

I don't even understand why he even went down this path.

I'm stupid, but there is in fact autism in Cuba.

You will be shocked to know.

And it's because they all take talent all there.

No, just kidding, that's not why.

No.

I like the analysis that the paper that RFK is citing reads like the top was written by him at the bottom his societ just being like, oh god, fuck my life.

Yeah, everything Trump touches dies.

Really, we're seeing that in action here.

But I mean, the good news about RFK and Trump's vaccine announcement is that it was so bad that even Trump's people are like, you know, and that is I mean, that is not nothing.

Because we have seen Trump's people defend a lot of crazy stuff, but even they are not able to defend this.

So that's something.

Samalia the Yale School of Management, which is not known for the woke, they've been coming out with a lot of things about how business feels about Trump and their way to survey, most CEOs say Trump policy has harmed their business.

Yeah, I'm shocked to hear that.

I am just shocked to hear that the anti business policy is harming their business.

This is like this piece we saw it in the Wall Stroop Journal.

Basically, these ceo seventy CEOs who attended the CEO Caucus convened by the woke liberals at the Yale School of Management, they were surveyed and they said, among the CEOs, and these are people like the head of Pfizer, the head of Motorola, the head of gm SO, seventy one percent of CEOs said that the tariffs were harmful to their businesses.

Seventy four said the courts were correct to fight the tariffs illegal eighty percent so the president was not acting in the country's best interest by pressuring FED chair Jerome pal to cut rates.

Seventy six percent said that Health Secretary Robert F.

Kennedy Junior is putting us public health at risk.

And that was even before the HB one visas, so I think, which cost one hundred thousand dollars a week or maybe a year, or maybe a month or maybe whatever.

Because who had time to figure this out before they made the presidential proclamation?

Not I.

Tim Miller is the host of the bow Work Daily Podcast.

Welcome to Fast Politics, Tim Miller.

Hey, momly Jon Fast I'm back Fast Politics.

I think I've lost my gold jacket.

You know, for a while there, I was the top guest.

Well, you're busy, You're a little busy.

You know what happened.

You know, that's a lot going on.

Yeah, and things are going great.

Oh yeah, firing on all cylinders in the USA.

You know, Trump at the UN just did great jobs.

Thing.

I mean, like the substance of his policy is not great, and I oppose most of it, not the foreign policies.

Lost my expertise, the style, the politics of like what he's doing.

And he goes up there and talks about how well respected he is now and how all the all the countries respect him.

If you were extremely respected, is that something that you'd say in front of a room of people, like usually someone like Tom Hanks, Tom, I don't know why to Tom's come to mind when I think about respected people, Tom broke Off, Morgan Freeman.

They don't don't have to go in a room and say, Matteline Albright, I am so respected in the room.

It's just kind of like people know it, right, you know, But anyway, you know, he's doing that whole thing.

He's lecturing Europe about their free speech laws and about how their heritage.

Is Katie Vance play right.

Yeah, I mean the whole thing is just really and how do you sit through it if you're one of these other countries?

I guess that's why I wonder.

One of the things that I think is a hallmark of trump Ism.

And I'm curious if you think this is like the quest to solve problems that never existed and to.

Create problems and then solve them.

Yeah, so I feel like the UN has a smattering of Trump doing that.

Yeah.

I mean he has this list of wars that he thinks he solved, for example, and a lot of those were real problems, but it's like.

Some of them are wrong.

Yeah, It's like do the people even know that he had solved, you know?

And then he lists him twice and he mixes up which countries are involved in which conflict, and it's all like, okay, well, you actually there were two pretty not to undermine the Armenia Iserbaischan conflicts, but like there are two really serious, major conflicts that that he said that he was going to resolve very quickly Russia, Ukraine, in Israel and Kaza, both of them are worse than when he got in.

You added a kind of a quasi hot war with Venezuela in our own atmosphere.

Yes, and so it's kind of like you don't really get credit for the dwindling tensions between Egypt and Ethiopia, like when you're starting a you're starting a war in the Caribbean, and you know, enabling Russia to continued to assault on Ukraine.

You know, are you surprised that Republicans aren't pushing back more on the blowing up fishing boats?

No, I'm not.

I mean you get Rand.

Do you get the civil libertarians and civil libertarians out there?

Right?

I actually thought it was notewere it Rand, Let's say a week or two ago, now I don't know, you know, times a flat circle.

But he was on Fox, you know, and then all the blow dried hair guys start to pun together.

Is either Will Kine or Jesse Waters, I forget one.

Basically the same.

Yeah, and I thought it was actually good that Rand was on Fox, like making a pretty coherent and cogent argument for why we don't want to just have the government start bombing random boats in the Caribbean.

And how you know, somebody that was a small government conservative might be concerned about that kind of power if it gets into the wrong hands.

And so it was good that he was out there doing that.

But like, no, these guys, the only fight they've really picked has been on the free speech stuff, right.

I mean, like BONDI did have to back down.

Cruz and several others are out there on the on the Brendan Carr thing, which is good, which I appreciate.

There's some reasons for that, some of them political, some of them genuine policy disagreements.

But like, besides that, like they're not saying anything.

And even my Senator Bill Cassidy was on Twitter like yesterday talking to RFK about how he appreciates that he's reviewing the autism research and applauds him for it.

I'm like, you applaud him for this, like you're a doctor, you know better.

So anyway, I know, I don't have any help for these guys, really, and I just take pleasant surprises when I can get them.

I do think when it comes to Ted Cruz having a podcasting senator, right.

Like, it goes against interest as a podcaster.

He doesn't want anybody.

I think he identifies as much as a competitor of ours and as he does as a competitor of like Sheldon Whitehouse, because I really think he likes being a podcaster.

So yeah, I think there's something to that for sure.

I also think that like their identity is really wrapped up in being a don't tread on me free speech thing and the way that like so Trump's other abuses obviously biden to them, they would oppose them.

They're they're opposed to them in academic sense, you know, at the Department of Justice, oh, you know, going after foes or I we go down the whole list.

But like the free speech thing, I do think a lot of these guys like feel is very central to their identity, and I think that's part of the reason why they've pushed back.

And another part is that like Pam Bondy and Brendan Carr, that's to see that Will Twarp have been so like hackish about all this that like it gives them an easy way to like distance without really distancing from Trump.

You know, they can be like Pam BONDI doesn't you know that Blonde doesn't know it hates speeches and you know, brending cars, you know.

So that so there are some situational reasons, but I'll take it.

I guess it is interesting though, when you're talking about these libertarians, because like one of the very few voices of descent in the House of Representatives is Thomas mass.

Yeah, you know, everyone's all.

I got to hand it to the Libertarians, like at least they are you know, at least they have a big Labaskan line.

At least they have an ethos, yeah, you know, And so I do think there's that part of it is I think that they are have been used to opposing the party leadership right and in times on things that maybe wouldn't necessarily align with the left.

Right, Like there were times when they opposed the party leadership on like too much spending right or something right, And so they got used to opposing party leadership and and they're a little more comfortable with it than some of the more rank and file Republicans.

The crazy thing as you just like list through all of the just total abuses of the constitution, just plain stupid policy decisions, harmful to MAGA, the mega based decisions that they've made, and it's just like the fact that we can name these guys that have spoken up, and it's a big difference in seventeen and like I was on you know, I was, well, I guess this podcast hadn't started in twenty seventeen, But if we had an imaginary version of this podcast in twenty seventeen, I would have been on there then, also complaining that more Republicans weren't speaking up.

But then they were kind of a lot, but comparison, right, like there weren't enough for my tastes, you know.

But and even the Speaker of the House at times, Paul Ryan, you know, in seventeen and eighteen, no model of courage.

Don't want to build hm a statue, but like he was, he was checking Trump on various things.

Again, like not as much as we would have wanted.

It's totally different.

Like they're like the party has totally you know, bought a full subsidiary of the Trump Inc.

Tell me if you think I'm crazy here, because I think one of my many bad qualities is that I'm too optimistic.

But the Kim situation strikes me as an opportunity where we are seeing twenty sixteen style resist.

And it worked, I wouldn't say that's too optimistic.

And I was on Nicole yesterday offering a version of that argument, right, which is, like you can see in the Kimmel thing, the ways in which Trump is weaker than he lets on if the opposition actually stands up to him, right, Like a lot of Trump's wins have come from people folding.

You know, I saw this on immigration.

I wrote this up a lot about El Salvador.

El salvag was such a tragedy what they did to those men, sending them to without due process.

But like their stated plan was to send a lot of people to El salvatark right when Keela first came, remember when there was still some pop there.

Like Trump's whole thing was that you got to build me a bigger prison, right because I got a much more people come in your way.

And so they went from that because of pushback, partially ly in through the courts, and like a ton of great work was out there in the courts, partially through the media, partially through regular people protesting right like and protest us in Central America, right, like a combination of the Senator's going there.

Yeah, just a combination of all of the parts of civil society saying no, we're opposed to this, and now there's nobody there right leaves sense right, and so that's good.

So you've had some small examples of that, and I think that those are the models we should look to as far as resistance, like my only caveat to it on the Kimmel thing.

And we'll see how this all plays out, like the developing as we're taping.

But like we have these two affiliates that are not I'm next star as well, that's the next star one is more interesting to me because Sinclair is like the Newsmacs of local media.

So that's bad in its own right, but like that's been bad for a while.

The nextra thing is new.

This is a new kind of corruption where it's like if you have business before the government, you are then cajoled into silencing the government's critics or doing some sort of favor for the government in order to get it.

Like that is you know, banana republic shit, and like that's what we're having right now.

And so that's where I'm not like, so you know, optimistic about it, Like there's some good parts, but like the nextar thing is to watch for me.

It's the Jeff Bezos school of trump Ism.

Right, Sherry Redstone, it's CBS, same thing, right, yeah, Zuck.

A lot of them, They are just a ton of them that are doing this right now.

You want regulatory approval.

But the tension between consumers consuming what we saw with Target and what we're seeing with Disney where they lost you know, three billion dollars in market share, not a huge number for them, but still, you know, not good.

The tension between what people want and what the autocrat wants is real.

Yeah, and people still have power in this front, right, you know again, I think there's just part of it was people who are very beat down, you know, yeah, and I get it, sign me up to the front.

And you know, part of it is like there's a sense of lack of power, lack of agency, lack of power, like what can we do?

There's something we can actually do, won't make a difference.

It's fucking idiot, moron one twice now, it's you know what I mean.

So I it was part of that, and then there were as part of like there's no leadership really right, Democratic party that is shis in pretty weak.

And then in civil society university that we can go down the list of people haven't stood up to him, and so that conflence has made a lot of people feel like, oh, it's not worth it to do these sorts of campaigns to push back against them.

But we can see that that they do work again, like on the margins.

Not everything's going to be great tomorrow, right, but like he can't be pushed back against.

And he's still despite the fact that you know, he has some anti democratic desires at minimum, right, he's still at this point today is subject to political reality and like, and we've seen that on our number of things, tariffs, you know, other things where it's like he is not totally acting like Putin right now, like he's acting like a aspiring autocrat that is pretty shameless, but within the pull back, like but still has to adhere to some laws of political gravity, which is, you know, different than other politicians, but like it's not we should we shouldn't.

And sometimes I see a and I wonder if you see this too in your like comments, And I try to push back against this with people because like I'm pretty dark, but like sometimes I see in feedback from people that like this is hopeless, Like why are you even talking like they're going to be more elections, like it's over, and it's like, well, it's bad, it's bad, but it's not over.

And we've already seen plenty of evidence that like he is responsive to like some types of democratic pushback.

And I mean that as a small d you know, democracy being all of us, and you know we've seen that a little.

Bit this week.

No, I agree, and I think that's right.

And I also think cynicism is the enemy of all of this.

I want you to talk about.

We are hurtling towards a shutdown.

So Democrats are very excited about They were very excited about getting this meeting because one of my hobbies is I yell at comm's people when they try to give me stories.

I just tell them all the ways in which they point disappointed.

That's the Jewish mother I am.

So I say glad, I'm glad that you're out there doing that because I am ghosting them and I love you all comms people, and I do.

It's more it's about me.

It's kind of a it's me not you time thing where it's just like I used to be a comms person.

I used to shovel shit and so it makes me feel bad for them that they have to shit to me, And so rather than arguing with them, I just pretend like I didn't see it.

So I literally come back with I'm really disappointed about that debt, and do you really think that that dea debt will work?

And also you realize and then I send them all the mean tweets that people tweeted without them got it.

So that's my interaction.

So I, as you can tell, I'm real popular mother, and this is what we this is how we get results.

So it is emotional blackmail.

So they are super excited about this meeting with Trump.

They really wanted it, they got it.

Trump canceled it, hurtling towards a show down.

What if you, I mean, do you think this is a good call?

And if not, what should they be doing?

I could be a really unsatisfying act answer to this one.

Sure, this situation is really hard.

It's really easy.

Yeah, rather have a nuanced take.

Yeah exactly, I just think that and I get it.

And I have been, you know, at the front of the parade on the do something parade.

Yeah, democrats like do anything, just like do something, show me you're alive.

Poking them with a stick.

I got that has been me and and I and there's something at some point there's like something easy about that which is like, what, I'm happy that the Gavin thing have been exactly what I would have done as far as the mocking tweets, but it's like working and I'm happy he's doing right like anyway, So I understand that like the tendency, especially of like hyper political resistance podcast listeners are gonna be like, do shut it down, do something.

I'm with that, like emotionally right, but like, what's the end It's hard to think of an endgame, right, Like it's hard like are you are we really going to show the government down our demo?

Are people going to hurt?

Are people going to lose, you know, access to government services, to the paychecks?

It's how long is that paying going to last?

Is our Hakeem and Chuck at the end of it going to just go with their tail between their legs the Trump and look even weaker than they did before, right Like, I just you need a plan.

This is probably a metaphor that's going to get me in trouble.

But it was always my critique of the Israel causal war where I was like, I'm kind of for you pushing back after October seventh, but what is your plan again, Like what's the strategy?

Like we can't just be here forever, right and and so you know, you don't want to have the same same strategic miscalculation.

So for me, it's kind of like I don't know.

I'd pick an issue or two, and I try to make it very clear what that is.

They're picking health care, you know, and say to people, hey, we want you to have this.

Your Obamacare premiums are going to go up.

We're going to fight for this, We're going to fight against this, you know, We're going to do it for as long as we can.

At the end of the day, then we're going to keep it closed for a year and a half where people don't care.

Like that's just not doable, you know.

So at the end of the day, if if Donald Trump has to jam this through and we a bunch of Democrats abstain, there's gonna be a bunch of a man at Democrats and shouting at them about that.

And I'll understand that, but like, okay, what's the other option, Like the Republicans aren't going to come to the table, don't care that you know, people are like, well, there's an asymmetry here.

It's like, yeah, the Republicans are in Congress and the Democrats are in the White House.

They do have more chips in this argument because they don't give a fuck if people don't get their food stamps or whatever, you know, not essentially, so like whatever and like the Demo you know, so like makes it a little more complicated.

So I would just try to message it as clearly as possible, tack a couple of issues for maybe force them to try to jam this thing through without you know, without Democrats, which would require breaking rules.

But they've broken a lot of rules already, right, and and and and and least come out of us at the end with your endgame being like everyone will know at the end of this that we wanted your premiums to go down on your health care and the Republicans didn't give a fuck and they jammed it through anyway, And like, I think that's probably the best they can do.

It is interesting, though, because it would be good for Republicans.

For the Democrats to try to shut it down.

No, I mean, it would be good for Republicans for them to lower Obama.

Yeah, I know.

This was the other thing.

So my husband we were chatting about this.

The other shows you it's like complicated.

His point was like, why are we picking healthcare because he was like, what if they fold?

Right, Like what if they fold on it?

And then and then he's like, don't we want people to see that the Republican policies are hurting them in their healthcare premiums.

I hear that, like, I don't know, that's what I'm saying.

It's kind of there's not a perfect option, Like there could have been another path that was like, you know, we're not going to fund your ice agents until they take off their masks.

But then some people would say, well, immigration's kind of a winning issue for Democrat Republicans.

You really want to pick that one.

Okay, It's not like we're going to say refund USAID and I would like that would be my policy prefer Nobody actually cares about USA idea except you and me and like eighteen other people, right, Like, it's a little bit more complex than people think.

I'm reserving judgment.

Actually, well, so I want to see how things go over the next week.

What a nice nuanced take.

Tim Miller, thank you, Junk Fast.

Good to see you again.

Go of the newsletter Abortion every Day.

Welcome to Fast Politics, Jessica, thank you for having me.

I'm really excited to be on.

I'm talking to you.

It's like first time call a longtime reader.

So I'm very much sam.

Wow, I'm very excited.

This is very cool, you know, as someone who I have a lot of respect for what you do, and I'm going to introduce you, which we like tend not to do because why would we.

But you write this, this incredible newsletter which is called Abortion every Day.

And when you started writing it, I think you saw what was coming.

But I mean, it's been how long have you been doing the newsletter?

And how do you poster you?

You know, I've been doing a pretty good job but being more angry than depressed, Like I'm pretty good at just like keeping the fury level at like an all time high and that tends to help.

But I started it, you know, I already had a substack where I was doing sort of like a weekly feminist column, but I started it officially after Rose overturned, and it sort of like came about organically because there was so much horrible shit happening that I was trying to keep track of that I decided to I was like, Okay, I'm gonna write a little bit, almost for myself.

And after a couple of weeks I realized, no, this is a this is a thing, that this is a thing that needs doing, And sort of naively, I wondered why be able to write about this?

Like will there be enough news to write about every day?

And boy was I stupid because I could write, you know, four newsletters a day and it wouldn't be enough exactly.

So let's talk about one of the hot hot ideas right now is to run anti choice democrats.

I didn't know that was a thing, but I didn't even know you could find an anti choice democrat because choice seems so popular in all of these ballad initiatives.

So talk us through why that's not a thing.

I mean, yeah, it's it's a sort of absurd idea, to be honest, especially, I think the idea is that the Democrats need to have a bigger tent, need to open the party to more people if we want to beat back fascism, beat back like this horror show that we're all in and I think that there's sure there's a conversation to have about a bigger tent more broadly, but when you're talking about the fundamental human rights of half the population, that is not something that should be up for debate.

And as you said, this is a really popular issue, right like abortion rights is one of democrats most popular issues.

It is not that is actually making the tent bigger, right like leaning into abortion this is how we're getting Republican voters like, this is the issue that we can actually use.

And so when you know, when pundits and again unfortunately a lot of the women, when they talk about sort of throwing women's rights under the bus in service of getting more votes, it reveals that they don't follow this issue and that they don't know what they're talking about when it comes to this issue.

Because of how popular it.

Is, you wrote this really good newsletter that goes through how popular it is.

And i'd love you to sort of like give us the highlights.

I mean, there's stuff like there are different states where it's more popular than other states, but really it's so so like i'd love you to talk about sort of the states like Nevada, like New Jersey, Pennsylvania.

Just talk us through what that looks like.

Sure, I mean, I think you can look at pretty much any state and see that it is pro choice, like voters overwhelming.

You're like, you go to Tennessee, voters, voters want the abortion band gone.

You go to what you would consider red states, like really red states, they don't want the government involved in abortion at all.

Nationally, we know that it is any one percent of Americans do not want they don't want a law on abortion, They do not want pregnancy and abortion legislated.

Eighty one percent is a massive, massive numbers, Like that's a really that's a really big deal.

In the states, some of the states I talked about in the newsletter last night, I mentioned them because when you know, asra client made this comment about pro life democrats, he mentioned, you know, if you want to win in Missouri, Ohio, Kansas, you know you need pro life democrats.

It just so happens that all three of those states in the past two or three years had huge, huge ballot measure wins.

Right in Kansas, they back in anti abortion ballot measure sixty forty, like they completely walloped it.

In Ohio, they passed the purchose ballot measure.

In Missouri, they passed the purchase ballot measure and the you know the thing I said about Missouri that I think is really telling Republicans there know how popular this issue is, to the point where the pro choice ballot measure that they passed was called Amendment three.

Now in twenty twenty six, Republicans are putting a ban on the ballot.

They're calling it Amendment three because the hope, because they know how popular it is, and the hope is to is to trick voters.

So Republicans understand that this is where they're losing and that this is where they need to like roll back.

So it just blows my mind that Democrats that some Democrats don't understand that.

I would love you to talk us through why you think that abortion is, while being super popular, an issue that people are willing to sort of liked of like the success of Donald Trump.

And you know, I feel like I'm gonna get hit by lightning by saying this, But is that he pretended to be pro choice and he continues to pretend to be pro choice.

Yeah.

I mean, I think a huge part of it, unfortunately is media coverage and sort of like the perfectuation of both sides media where we are giving equal space and credibility to you know, the anti abortion movement, which is they lie, they have science against them, and again like very very unpopular, and yet the media coverage.

If people were just to look at sort of like magazines and newspapers and knew nothing about abortion, they would assume that the country is evenly split or that this is like a really controversial issue among voters, and that is like a myth that just keeps ongoing and going.

And I think even for that's even for politicos, even for people who pay attention to this issue broadly, if they're not paying attention to abortion and they don't understand any thing about it, then it's easy to say, oh, well, you know the country, the country has split on abortion.

Right.

It hasn't been It hasn't been true for decades, and it's certainly not true now right not while people are are seeing their their neighbors, you know, get success or have to carry and doomed pregnancies to term.

People are really outraged over it.

Talk to me about what's happening with birth control.

I would love you to just talk to us about what you've seen since the overturning of ROW, I think, and I want you to start with SBA, because I feel like SBA for me, that was the moment where I was like, Oh, they're gonna overturn ROW, like nobody's you know, SBA.

This Texas state law that overturned ROW a year before ROW was officially overturned, and it basically was allowed to stand on the shadow docket.

And when I saw that coming, I knew they had just that that was not going to be a right we had for a much longer talk to us about like do you have that same thought?

And sort of I would love you to first talk about sbare.

I think, like a lot of other feminists and abortion rights activists, like we saw it coming a mile away.

We knew that that's what they had been building towards for fifty years, you know, through this chipping away approach and then through through SB eight, through this abortion band, and of course Texas continues to be sort of the canary and the call mine for the rest of the country.

If you ever want to know what's going to happen with abortion rights, you know, six months from now, a year from now, just look at what they're doing in Texas.

I think we all did know it was coming.

What was so frustrating was this sort of response from the mainstream and from like liberal men and progressive men, mostly men, that was, that's not going to happen, right, like you're I mean literally, I were being hysterical, hysterical, hysterical, you're being hysterical.

That's never going to happen.

And of course we were right.

And it's sort of now doing this newsletter and writing about what's happening every day, I see the same thing happening where like me, other feminists, other people who work in this field are warning about birth control, are warning about the right to travel, and their response is that's never going to happen.

You're overreacting.

That's never going to Is there going to be a point where you listen.

Is there going to be a point where you like, trust the expertise and see that we continue to be right again and again and that we know what we're talking about because we are tracking this really closely.

I don't know.

I think I have to remain a little bit of football right now.

What you said about SBA Texas Canary and the coal mine, the right to travel is already being tipped away in Texas to talk us through what that looks like.

It's Texas in a couple of other states.

So in Idaho and Tennessee, both of those states paths what they are calling an abortion trafficking law and anti trafficking law, which they say is about preventing abusive adults from taking miners across state lines to get abortions to cover up evidence of their crime.

Right in reality, when you look at the law, what it actually says is any adults, it could be a grandmother and aunt, right, trusted friend, any adult who helps a teenager get an abortion in any wet even like sending them a text message with a URL to a clinic.

That that is abortion trafficking.

That is a felony.

You can go to prison for that.

With those laws, the free speech infringement parts have been blocked that they're still fighting it out in court.

In Texas.

Again, they're always ahead of the game.

It's not just teens, it's adults.

They have ordinances.

I think it's like ten counties at this point, ten counties in towns where they have passed what they're calling abortion trafficking laws that make it illegal to use the state roads or highways go through the county to travel out of the state to get an abortion, or to travel to get abortion medication, again, no matter what your age.

And while that is not a criminal offense, it's essentially like the rest of us bea someone can sue you, They can sue the shit out of you, ruin your life.

And the idea is to create this chilling effect where women, pregnant people are too afraid to leave the state to get the care that they need, and that the people who might normally help them will be too afraid of lawsuits to stick their neck out.

It is, you know, a fundamentally anti community, you know, snitch culture situation that they are setting up.

And I don't know how much clearer they can be.

Right, they've had the anti abortion activists who's sort of leading the charge on these ordinances has been asked, well, you know these are adults you're talking about.

How can you call that trafficking when it's an adult who's willingly leaving your state, And he said, the fetus is always being trafficked.

The fetus is fetus is being trafficked.

Fetus is being trafficked.

So if you leave the state.

His idea is, if you're pregnant person leaving the state, you're trafficking the fetus.

And this isn't Matthew Kause Merrick, right, everyone knows that's.

Not the judge.

No, that this is Mark Dickson, who's like a full weirdo, like backwards baseball cap has like creepy, you know, youth pastor vibes.

He goes down to town trying to trying to pass these things.

But like what's important to know though, is that this isn't just going to stay in Texas.

Last year, Montana Republicans proposed a law that said, if you are pregnant and you leave the state for an abortion, you are trafficking your fetus.

You're trafficking you're on fetus.

Obviously it didn't go anywhere, but like they're trying.

And this is where it's going.

I was on bellmar Show and we're talking about this story about how Crosco is no longer carrying matthe and Prisstown.

They would make me jokes about Cosco buying in bulk, but but that's not what's happening here.

And clearly there's also like a kind of Cold War on the pills, the medical abortion pills, but also the birth control pill writ large to talk us through.

That, Yeah, I mean, listen, this is another thing that they have been working on and shipping away at for decades, and that the primary way that they are going after it is by conflating contraception with abortion and by saying that certain kinds of contraception are actually abortifationis right.

Yeah, So, like the same conservative legal organizations that are fighting to get methipristone off of Costcos shelves and other pharmacies are also though they're not quite as loud about it, fighting to get emergency contraception off of their shelves because they say it's an abortion.

They are arguing that iud's are abortions, and even the birth control pill.

And the story that I'm very concerned about that I've been covered for the last two weeks I think is that the Trump administration basically made their first official move, first official statement, policy calling birth control abortion and it's nowhere.

There's like no coverage of it.

It's wild.

And this was several like the State Department usaid.

It has to do with this ten million dollar stockpile of birth control that everyone they talking about, Yeah, which they're I don't know if they destroyed it or it's set to be destroyed.

There was some concoction about it because like who knows, but they're but they said they're going to destroy it.

And they said they're going to destroy it because it's abortion.

And you're talking about iud's the pill and hormonal implants.

You're talking about the Trump administration saying that the most common forms of birth control are actually abortifationis and it's in like the seventh paragraph of the time story.

It's mind blowing to me because that is how they get away with it.

They're just dipping their toe in the water.

They're putting it out there again and again and again.

And that's what's happening.

And so how long until it's not just you know, birth control that is supposed to be dispensed to women abroad, but women here.

It's very clear that this is where they're going with it.

Yeah, and this is just so dark in my mind.

I know this, but I want you to say this, what do you think the larger goal here is?

It is the tron wife bullshit, right, It is the control.

It is re establishing white supremist, white male patriarchal control over every aspect of women's lives.

It's about pushing us back into the home, about getting us out of the public sphere, about making sure that we are forever fragment and so that we can't go anywhere.

It's about taking away financial control.

Like the best way to keep women American women under sort of like the patriarchalm is to ensure that they're forever pregnant, sure that they that they're that they are constantly physically vulnerable and I can't do anything about it.

And so at the end of the day, like that's what this is about.

To me, it's not a coincidence that this is all happening at the same time that conservatives are putting millions and millions of dollars into this insidious, you know, cultural campaign against birth control, saying birth control hurdso the campaign with the child wife stuff saying like it's actually great to be at home.

And unfortunately, like I do think that Democrats are fucking it up on this because they're so obsessed with getting young male voters to their side and assuming that young women are always going to be there for them, even as conservatives are running this massive indoctrination machine.

It's it's dangerous.

We're in danger of losing those votes.

It's just so incredibly dark, the reality of ROW, the people bleeding out in their you know, women going to hospitals, not being able to be treated, that reality.

Do you think people are seeing it firsthand?

And do you think it is changing hearts and minds because that's what happened in nineteen seventy three.

Yeah, I think yes and no.

I think when those stories are out there, we know that they make a difference.

We know that people's personal accounts of being denied care and the suffering that they're facing, we know that that changes people's hearts and minds.

And I think that it's only a matter of time before every single person in this country knows someone who's been impacted by a band, whether it's that they got sepsis or were really harmed, or they you know, had to wait three months to get their paths near like, it's not long before everyone is going to be impacted by this.

But I also think that there is this really specific, proactive move to cover those stories up, to sweep them under the rug.

You know, you have Republicans shutting down maternal mortality committees.

You have them saying that, you know, these women who are dying didn't actually die because they were denied abortions, but because of abortion pills.

Like again, because they've been planning this for so long.

They knew women were going to die, right, they like strategized over that and polled for it and messaged for it.

And now they're they're doing all the stuff that they planned for.

And so I am concerned that if we're not fighting back really aggressively on that and making sure the stories are out there, that people won't hear them.

Yeah, no, I mean and that and there we are, Jessica Vlendi, will you please come back.

There?

No, mo.

Jesse Cannon.

My did you know it's quote unquote really illegal for journalists to cover Trump's administration negatively?

Because that's what he's saying.

It's really illegal.

It's the most illegal.

It's so illegal.

Why is it so illegal?

Many people are saying it's illegal.

Many people are saying, is look we're at in times stupid here?

This is it intimes stupid.

So Trump is a free speech warrior, but not really, my man.

He has a whole shtick about how much bad publicity he's gotten and how horrible that is for him.

You're going to be shocked to hear this, but Donald Trump really does not like bad purplic today.

That is the vibe I've picked up from him.

Anyone who's mean to him, he really wants to get them back.

We did that great interview about revenge this summer and how fixated he is on it, and it wrings in my head every time I see something like this.

Yeah, he's really focused on revenge and he wants to basically shut down the mainstream media luckily for us.

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