It's a love story and you're going to hear it today at the radio backyard fence.

How are you doing, friend?

Welcome to our Wednesday conversation of Chris Fabry live.

The program from the heart to the heart and for the heart.

We're going back to the archives today to hear a love story that was told on Valentine's Week this year, the love story of a man named cubby and his wife, Rebecca.

You saw the movie Unsung Hero.

This is the rest of the story of Rebecca Saint James and her husband, Cubby Fink.

Their book released about a week before we had this conversation back in February.

So since our program is recorded today, you're going to hear some dated information.

Disregard that as we talk about lasting ever faith, music, family, and being found by true love.

That is our featured resource at the website.

Chris.

Let me thank our team.

Ryan McConaughey doing all things technical.

Thank you Ryan.

Trish is our producer and since we recorded Josh is not listening the phones today, but we do have an open line for you if you want to support what we do at the radio backyard fence, we have a fantastic thank you.

This month it's Chip Ingram's book.

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The following conversation is a best of presentation of Chris Fabbri Live.

She is a defining artist in the Christian music world.

Grammy Dove Award winning singer songwriter.

You saw her story play out in the film Unsung Hero.

Rebecca Saint James, welcome back.

How are you doing today?

Hi Chris, I'm doing great.

Great to be back with you, friend.

Yes, it's excited to have this guy because on that tour on the base was Cubbie Fink, founding member of the multi-platinum, Grammy nominated indie pop band Foster the People.

All the other kids.

But he was the executive producer.

He brought it.

Yeah, I sang it.

Uh, he was the executive producer on Kingdom Come.

Your most recent studio album.

And then producer and director.

You've done that with Film cubby, and your most recent endeavor was Unsung Hero.

You two have three children together, and a new book lasting ever.

Cubby, welcome to the program.

How are you doing today?

Thanks so much, Chris.

I'm doing great.

It's super fun to be here.

Okay, so we got to get your name out of the way first.

What is is cubby.

Your.

Given name?

How did that come about?

I mean, more or less it's it's not on my birth certificate, but I received it at birth.

Uh, came out with a full head of hair, and, uh, and my dad thought I looked a little bit like a bear cub.

And so it was cub and cub turned into cubby and.

And here we are.

The funny thing is, his actual name is Jacob.

Chris.

So people think Jacob Cubby, people.

Think.

Okay, that makes sense.

Was it Jacob or Jakob?

Uh, my dad actually is Jewish.

So, um, more of the Ya'aqob or Ya'aqov.

Okay.

Got it from.

But you did.

Okay.

You had a lot of hair when you were born, but you didn't have the 5:00 shadow yet, right?

I may have, I don't know, that may have added to the nickname.

I want to I told cubby before the program.

I want to figure out how do I get my hair to do what your hair does.

And I think you told me before, it's kind of DNA.

It was kind of like your dad passed that down, right?

Yeah.

I unfortunately cannot take credit for it, but I, uh, I do enjoy, uh, being able to wear it, I suppose.

Fake hair.

Okay, so, so I know a lot about Rebecca's life and I and people who've seen the film.

I don't know as much about you.

And reading the book I do lasting ever.

It's just out came out last week.

It's our featured resource at Chris Fabry.

Live music was an art.

Was a big part of your life growing up?

How did your parents help you move toward music and art?

Yeah, both my parents are are very artistically inclined.

My dad was a drummer and my mom was just kind of a multifaceted artist.

Um, everything from painting to ceramics to photography.

And so just grew up with a very arts focused home.

Um, my mom would spend a lot of afternoons with my sister and I and kind of roll out butcher, butcher paper on the countertop and just throw out a bunch of crayons and markers and just kind of let us go crazy.

And and she was, you know, very much just teaching us the, the ways of art from, from a very early age.

And then, you know, growing up with my dad as a drummer, um, being able to, to go along with him to gigs from a pretty early age and get to sit side stage and watch him play and just be fascinated by the live experience of music.

That definitely made a very strong impression on me from from an early age, and then stumbled across a an old crate of my parents records up in the attic at, uh, I don't know, it's probably 8 or 9 at that point and figured out how to how to plug the turntable in and drop the needle on.

On the first record that I pulled out of the crate, which happened to be, uh, the Beatles Rubber Soul record.

And from that moment, I was just transfixed and and really just fell in love with, you know, what music could be.

And, uh, that was kind of the the beginning of the pursuit.

There was a song, uh, that you say that you heard the opening bass, and I can't remember the bass line of a particular song that really captivated you.

Yeah, it's the Drive My Car, which is the first, first album or the first record on on, uh, on Rubber Soul.

Drive my car.

Okay, so.

So then you got a your parents gave you an electric guitar, but they didn't.

They didn't buy you a Fender.

They bought you kind of a knockoff.

Something you could learn on.

Is that right?

Yeah.

That's right.

Yeah.

I think they were wise in, uh, you know, wanting to make sure they weren't one spoiling me, but but wanting to make me, uh, kind of push through the difficulties of, of learning on a guitar that that isn't that easy to play and really just kind of prove that it was something that I was actually passionate about.

And and the reality is, when I got it, I thought I was going to be able to pick it up and just be able to shred like Eric Johnson.

But unfortunately, that wasn't a reality.

And, uh, and I did get a little bit frustrated and, um, because a lot of other things in my life, I'm able to pick up and just kind of do and that this was sort of one of the first things in my life that I was greatly challenged by.

And, and I was frustrated initially and, and kind of put the guitar in the corner and it sat for a year or two, and then and then eventually got re-inspired to pick it back up and, and kind of commit myself to to fumbling through the, the awkward stages of trying to learn an instrument and um, and just was always encouraged by my dad that to just keep pushing and and eventually it would click and sure enough, it, it did.

And I distinctly remember that moment of of finally figuring out, okay, these fingers form this shape on these strings and, and there's a chord.

And it was just such a magical feeling.

And it was it was kind of what what hooked me.

Yeah.

We had a we had a guest talk about that with her son.

And when he was playing the drums, and it just sounded awful, she said.

And she'd encourage, you know, hang in there.

And one day she heard him playing to another track, and she didn't know whether it was a track or whether it was him, and she realized he's got it.

You know, he was able to hear it and to.

And so what you just said, though is that you can be very competent.

You can you say in the book to Covey that you were pretty good at school so you could do just, you know, the least amount and, and get by.

And it was okay.

You didn't have to put that much effort into it.

And so here's the music and you go full force.

And I wonder if in some ways that marriage is that way.

It's like it's supposed to be easy.

It's going to be easy.

We're going to love each other.

Have you found marriage to be kind of that thing that the the amount of work that you put into it, thought and love that that's what you get from it?

I would say absolutely.

Yes.

Um, I think marriage is something that is beautifully designed to, to make us all that we can be.

And I think there's beautiful differences between a man and a woman that when we come together, it's only because of those differences that that we grow.

Because I think if we were, you know, if if we were similar, there wouldn't be the rub.

But I think the rub is part of the beauty and part of what God uses to rub away the the rough edges and not only draw us closer to each other, but ultimately draws closer to God.

And I love that you know Christ.

Most poignant example of our relationship with him is marriage.

He calls himself the bridegroom and we are the bride.

And and I think the love that we experience in a, in a marriage is so profound, because it represents the love that we experience with our creator.

And, um, but yeah, it absolutely takes work.

It takes takes a commitment to patience.

Yeah.

Work through those hard things.

And, you know, you can always make the choice to just hide away and and not put in the work.

And, and your relationship will absolutely grow stagnant.

But we're I'm grateful that Rebecca is committed to to pushing through the hard conversations and and the challenges that that will present themselves.

I mean, there's no such thing as a perfect marriage, but but Rebecca's been committed to to always pushing through those things.

And we've been able to meet and grow and, and, uh, putting in the time is absolutely worth it.

Um, I was thinking to Chris, uh, well, when I was, when cubby was talking about discipline and patience that he had to give to the instrument of guitar, I was just thinking he was sowing seeds.

Then as a child that we've benefited from in our marriage, because I see that in him now, which I'm so thankful for.

Well, you two, you know, you you bringing what you bring and and all the experiences and the hardships and the struggles.

So we'll take a time out here.

Lasting ever faith, music, family and Being Found by True Love is written by Rebecca Saint James and Cubbie Fink.

And I really do mean that they both write it because you see it from Rebecca's point of view, and then you see it from Cubby's point of view.

And it's a wonderful thing to hear these two people who said, I'm going to wait.

And they did, and you'll find out more about that.

And seeing each other across the room straight ahead.

Today's Chris Fabry Live is a best of broadcast from this past February.

Don't call us today.

Our programs recorded.

Rebecca Saint James and Cubbie Fink have written a story of trust in an everlasting God.

The book is lasting ever faith, music, family, and being found by true love.

It's our featured resource at Chris Fabry Live.

Click through today's information.

You'll see it right there.

The pictures in the book are worth are worth the price right there without reading their story.

It's just so good, I love it.

So, Rebecca, you've been listening to Cubbie and me talk.

Um, your your message to young women was and you live this out was to wait to wait to be content in your singleness and to if God brings someone along, great.

If he doesn't, I'm going to be content as I can be.

Mhm.

And that that was how you lived, right.

Well it's how I sought to live.

Yes.

You know.

No, no one gets it right.

You know, all of us need the grace of God and um, but that was, that was my intent, you know.

And the contentment thing I think is, is a hard thing.

You know, when you're single and you're longing to be married.

Um, that was something that I definitely struggled with because the main dream of my life, you know, all along was to be married and have a family.

And music was kind of this tide me over till then, you know, it ended up being quite long.

I was in my early 30s when I met cubby and 33 when we got married, so.

But yeah, I, I started singing in the True Love Waits movement, really, when it was like the thick of that and got asked to sing it.

A lot of True Love Waits events, and the organizers would say, hey, can you just say a couple words about the importance of of honoring God in relationships with the opposite sex?

And and so it was a very easy yes for me because I was already committed to that in, you know, and so I'm, I'm very thankful because that ended up becoming a real focus of my ministry.

And I wrote a song, you know, for cubby way before I knew him, probably at least ten years before I knew him, the song wait for me, and it ended up being one of my more known songs.

And so I sang it around the world.

But I think that time of waiting for a dream like that to come true is a time of refinement, and it was a time of going deeper in my relationship with God and really trusting him and struggling through the fact that this had not happened yet and struggling through God's timing.

And I'm going to, Lord, seek to trust you and your goodness no matter what.

But I look back now, and I know he was doing a lot in my heart that was valuable, Chris, and I'm just so thankful the dream came true.

I'm thankful to be sitting here talking to you today and just rejoicing in the goodness of God that he brought my Prince.

He brought my holy hunk so thankful.

With the hair.

The guy with the hair.

Yeah, you're looking for that.

Okay, so, cubby, what about you?

Because I know your faith journey.

You you could stay in there and you do in the book, but did you have the same kind of feeling about, you know, I really want to wait for the person.

I really did.

Yeah.

And it it's it's interesting the way that developed.

I mean, I definitely saw modeled or marriage modeled in a very beautiful way between my parents and, um, they, they kind of came to faith out of the, out of the Jesus movement in the 70s, a couple of hippies, um, in Southern California, that that found Jesus together and were able to kind of build a foundation of faith before I entered the picture.

And so it was, was really brought into a loving, nurturing home and saw the beauty of marriage and saw the beauty of one man being committed to one woman and, and um, even just kind of through their modeling was drawn to just the idea of saving myself for that one person.

And I remember having a conversation with my mom pretty early on and she said, well, this is just the way God laid it out, and it's definitely best to follow his way.

And it just it just made sense from an early age.

And and so really, even before I got serious about my faith, that that really always was a, a kind of deep desire and value of mine to to really hold on to that and, and stay firm in that, in that commitment.

And then obviously when my faith did become more, you know, center focused in my life after a pretty radical Holy Spirit encounter, that commitment only made more sense because of my my pursuit of him and wanting to honor the things that he has called us to.

Um, and and yeah, it it Like Rebecca said, it's it's a time of, um, of refinement, especially the older you get.

I, I had a I was pretty convinced I was going to be married fairly early.

I was thinking probably early 20s.

Um, but the Lord had other plans and it wasn't closer to.

Wasn't until closer to 30 that I ended up getting married.

But in that season of of being committed to that decision, um, Rebecca and I have talked about this.

It's really is an opportunity to practice faithfulness.

And, um, just because you're married doesn't mean that the temptation goes away.

And I think, um, when when you are not forcing yourself to practice faithfulness once you get into marriage, I think a lot of those same temptations may work their way into your marriage.

But but having spent years of practicing faithfulness and saving myself for for one woman, it's really not even a question in our marriage.

And not to say that we're, you know, free from temptation or any of the things.

And we still have to absolutely be diligent in remaining committed to, to faithfulness within marriage.

But but I just see so much beauty in that season of waiting and and just the, the, the discipline that was built over those years of waiting and the, the practice of faithfulness played out.

And, you know, the dividends that's playing now in our marriage is just so beautiful.

I like the way you say that, because a lot of men or women get married and think struggles that they had before they get married, they're going to be gone because marriage solves that.

And it's like Mary's not going to solve the problems that you have.

You bring the problems you have into that relationship.

I want to skip forward because you do a really good job of painting the picture of everything that had gone on from both of your families up to the point where you meet.

But I want you to take me into that room where you looked across the way, and it's almost like some enchanted evening.

Your eyes met.

And, um.

So which saw first?

Uh, Rebecca?

Did you see him first, or did he see you first?

I don't exactly remember.

I think I might have seen you first.

What do you think?

Did I look up?

He's got a better memory, honestly, than me, Chris.

So he probably.

I'm pretty sure I saw her walk through the door.

Okay.

And I wasn't looking at that.

And I remember you kind of scanning the room, and then our eyes met, so I start first.

Yeah.

Okay.

You get.

I knew he would remember.

So what did you.

Think when you first saw her?

What did you think, Kirby?

I mean, it really was one of those magical cinematic moments.

It just felt like time slowed down and the music faded and the murmur of the crowd just dulled to a hush.

And the choir was singing and the birds were flying.

I mean, it was.

It was just.

It really was magical.

And it was it was such a beautiful moment.

Rebecca talks about this because she actually has a line in her song wait for me that waiting for the look in your eye when we meet for the first time.

And and there really was something very significant and profound about that first look.

And, and I think the coolest part about it was I was not familiar with that song.

So it wasn't like I was trying to, you know, create or concoct this magical moment.

It really just was magical and really, you know, very, very beautiful moment.

You talked like an hour and a half that night.

Rebecca.

Is that right?

Yeah, yeah.

So he he was working in TV and film at that point, and he was finishing up a show, so they called it a wrap party, like a wrap party to finish out, you know, this long, like six months long TV show recording.

And so there was a bunch of people there, and I had been invited by a couple of his roommates and best friends to it that I knew through a philosophy group.

And so, yeah, we we met and it was really, really special.

And, um, we ended up just like sitting down, I think, by the fireplace and, like, talking for an hour and a half.

And it just there was definitely this sense for me of like, I'm very intrigued by this guy.

I like him, like, I, I left that place going, I like that guy.

And generally I wouldn't even admit that to myself, you know?

But I felt pretty strongly about it right away.

You mentioned a philosophy group.

Now, I believe it was, wasn't it?

Lila Rose?

That was your friend who invited you to that?

Yeah.

That's right.

Yes.

She she's wonderful, uh, pro-life leader.

And, um, we were roommates at that point, and so she connected me to the to the philosophy group, and I'm forever thankful.

I mean, wow.

Yeah.

Okay, so here's my here's my big question for you.

I always have one big question.

This is it because my wife is four years older than me, and I remember the meeting her and then discovering her age that she's four years older and thinking, I don't know if this will work, you know.

Well, well, she, you know, with her age, you know.

Will she like me?

Will she not like me?

Rebecca is like five and a half years older than you.

I hope I'm not shocking anybody here.

Was that at all a.

Did you struggle with that at all, or was it like, who cares?

I honestly didn't, and I think there was there was some, I don't know, God provision in the midst of that because for whatever reason, growing up, I was always kind of drawn to older girls.

I felt like girls my age are younger than me.

It just it just never seemed to work.

So there was already kind of a natural inclination to be attracted to older girls.

And he's an old soul himself.

I think that's part of it, honestly.

Yeah.

And I and I think it honestly didn't even cross my mind.

I don't.

Even think.

About it.

And we don't.

I mean.

To this day, we don't.

We just feel very much on the same level.

And I just want to say that for anybody who's listening, who has.

That, you know, an age, a lot of times it's the male is older than the female.

At least it used to be that way, because my dad was like seven years older than my mom.

And it was like it wasn't it wasn't a big deal at all.

Yeah.

Um, yeah.

So an hour and a half.

What did you talk about, Rebecca?

What was the conversation about?

Well, it's funny because we talk about in the book about how, like, I love the five love languages, and I took a little liberty in this book of of calling out what I deem the sixth love language, uh, to be curiosity when you really care about someone enough to draw them out.

And I really liked this guy.

And so I just started asking him question after question after question.

Chris, I was just like, really trying to, you know, get to the bottom of this guy and like, and suss him out.

And so really, I think it was a lot of me asking questions.

But Cub has a funny take on that, like when you walked away from that, that hang.

I mean, it was it was funny in the sense, I mean, in the midst of the conversation, we were we were just locked in and it was beautiful.

And it was.

Back and forth.

Back and forth.

And we were I mean, it was just kind of one of those adrenaline rush sort of conversations where it was just, you know.

Flowing.

Well.

Flowing well and, and clicking and, and the whole thing.

And so I left that night very much admitting to myself, I like this girl.

She's amazing.

And then as kind of the high of that conversation started wearing off and I'm kind of getting ready for bed, and I start replaying the conversation in my head.

I start realizing that I literally talked about myself the entire time.

Which I didn't think that right.

Which which I don't do.

I mean, generally I'm the one asking questions.

I'm not the one.

Quiet one, not.

The one talking about myself.

And so I, I immediately resorted to the fact that, okay, I've blown it with this girl.

She probably thinks I'm completely obsessed with myself because that's all I talked about.

I didn't.

Um, so I was I was pretty convinced I'd blown it.

And the fact that, uh, we ended up connecting again and it going so well was was definitely a relief, but, um.

Okay.

How did you connect again?

Did you call her?

You didn't have text back then, right?

Right.

No.

So we I in the midst of our conversation, one of the things that she'd asked me about was just what I'm up to.

And I was in a band at the time that was sort of.

Starting to.

Blow up.

Starting to.

Yeah, you know, really find our legs and, and, um, kind of on the brink of some bigger things which, which was very exciting.

And we had a show coming up.

It was probably 2 or 3 weeks from the point that we met and, and she had asked, so do you have any shows in the area?

And I said, yeah, we do, and I'd love for you to come.

And she said, well, I'd love to be there.

And and so I said, sure, I'll put you on the list.

And in, in LA, it's just sort of a thing where you say you're going to show up and nobody actually does show up.

So even her saying that she wanted to be there, You know, I was like, well, that'd be great if she does, but she probably won't.

And and when it's, you know, when it came time to say goodbye, um, we we didn't even exchange numbers, so I just, you know, hoped that she would show up.

And I showed up, and I kept showing up.

You're gonna hear more of.

The story, and you can read more of the story in the book.

It's just outlasting ever faith, music, family and Being Found by True Love by Rebecca Saint James and Cubbie Fink.

This is Chris Fabry live best of broadcast with Rebecca and Cubbie as they tell their love story today at the back fence.

You know, the people at Carenet are living at a sacrificial love story every day.

They reach into the hearts of women and men who have an unplanned pregnancy and are facing a really hard decision.

Now, I told you about the film Unsung hero.

A little earlier, let me give you another movie recommendation.

It's short film, 23 minutes long, but it was 50 years in the making.

That's because Carenet began 50 years ago.

It begins and ends with the story of Lizzie and Candler.

And in between is this sweeping journey of Cornette's work in countless lives.

Go to Chris favorite archive.org.

Click the green Cornette link.

You can watch that film absolutely free.

Don't just listen to me talk about Cornette.

See what they are all about.

Again, go to Chris.

Click the green Cornette link and you can watch that new short film.

It's called the Cornette Story.

Again, go to Chris favorite.

Cubbie Fink and Rebecca Saint James have written lasting ever, faith, music, family and being found by True Love.

Again just go to Chris favorite.

You know, I'm I'm.

I want to hit all the highlights.

I want to hit the high points and the low points too, because people know Rebecca from the film Unsung Hero.

You know, some of the backstory of this.

And then, uh, here have heard your voice through the years.

I, I can't gloss over the proposal, though.

So you've.

How long.

How long?

From the first sight to the proposal.

Nine months.

Yeah.

So we so we met kind of earlier on in the year and then, um, uh, was that 2010?

Yeah.

And then he proposed on Christmas morning that year in the snow in Nashville.

And it never snows in Nashville at Christmas.

Chris.

Like, this was like literally a Christmas miracle for cubby to propose to me.

It's somewhat prophetic in the sense that when I was sort of dreaming about the perfect proposal.

You know, growing up in San Diego, I can only assume that Tennessee gets a lot of snow.

But I envision the proposal in.

In the.

Snow covered field.

And wow.

And the fact that it happened was was pretty miraculous.

Yeah.

And he, like, lit like made a candlelight pathway to a Christmas tree with presents and like, he had a scroll that had written out all the things that he loved about me and we hadn't actually said, I love you to each other, which is why I was not expecting him to propose.

And, um, yeah, I mean, it was just so such a surprise, but he had all these layers of, excuse me, presents.

And, I mean, it was so beautifully crafted.

It's like it was like a hallmark movie.

Kris.

It was really extraordinary.

Proud of my very romantic husband.

Well, and that's what it comes out in the book.

Cubby, you are the romantic in the family, right?

I guess so.

I mean.

I'm romantic too, right?

Yeah.

We're.

But he's.

he he likes doing these.

Very like it's.

I mean my birthday when we first met.

We document that in the book too.

But he like I mean took me paragliding and I mean Paris.

Was it parasailing, paragliding, gliding.

I mean, it was all these like layer upon layer.

He made me a painting that he spent like probably months putting together and like it was extraordinary, made me sausage rolls like from an Australian recipe, like just thing after thing.

So yes.

Well, their.

Pancakes.

To.

Details in.

Apple pie.

Pancakes.

Yeah.

Wow.

Chris, you.

Know this book.

I'm so impressed too.

I have I've.

Underlined and studied.

It.

Wow.

Because there's a.

There's a lot in here and and we're hitting the high points and Gabby uh, answer that question like how long did you work on this and, and produce this in your mind before Christmas.

Morning proposal.

Yeah.

I mean, it was a, Uh, I mean, I, I that was the like I said, the initial idea that I had in my head, um, but then showing up in Nashville and it just being kind of cold and dreary and no snow.

I had a couple of plan B, a plan C that that I chased down a little bit, and those presented kind of various challenges.

So I went back to plan A and sure enough, about mid week, uh, or a couple of days before Christmas, what was showing in the forecast as rain turned to snow and I said to myself that we might have a Christmas miracle on our hands.

And sure enough, Christmas Eve we were all heading out to church and and it started to snow.

And by the time we got home, there was probably a blanket of 2 or 3in on the ground and, and, uh, but leading up to that, it was, it was a good 3 or 4 days of gathering all the supplies and the candles, and.

I had no idea what he was doing.

And so I would just disappear for a few hours at a time and sneak up the back of her parents property to set up this scene.

And did you talk.

With her dad, her mom, her brothers?

Did you have to go through the gauntlet?

You know, in order.

To get this?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, let me I've got to tell you this because he won't tell you these, this layer.

But he asked my best friend, my dad.

Well, my dad, my dad first, obviously my best friend.

Oh, last.

Okay.

Okay.

Because, yeah.

He was.

The.

Biggest.

The biggest one, I suppose.

He crescendoed with my dad.

But my best friend, my mentor, my brother Joel, and.

And then your.

Dad.

And.

Dad.

Yeah.

I mean, that's going the extra mile, right, Chris?

Were you afraid at all, cubby that they might say a.

Because if the if the age difference hadn't bother you, you probably was like, you know, if they say no, well, you know, it's up to Rebecca.

Really.

Right.

What do you.

Think?

I think there was a bit of apprehension, but I think I had connected with kind of that core group her best friend, her mentor, and her brother Joel, pretty significantly.

I mean, in the short period that we'd been dating, I'd met them a few times.

And so there was some rapport there.

And for me, it was a just a sign of respect for for Rebecca and her community and wanting to make sure that they were all on the same page.

Because marriage is not marrying just one person, it's marrying a family and a community.

And I wanted to, you know, really start on on the right foot.

And then obviously, the the last hurdle was getting her father's approval, which proved to be the hardest hurdle to get over.

And and if there was any apprehension, it was probably most with him because, um, I was, you know, in a, in a position where the career was starting to take off, but honestly didn't have very much of anything to my name at that point.

And, and so was concerned that he may, you know, have some apprehension on those lines and and really his biggest thing when we had ended up finally having the talk, was wanting to make sure that I was ready to have kids immediately is pretty much.

How he put it.

Because Rebecca had always dreamt of a big family, and he wanted to make sure that, you know.

He was good with.

That.

I was okay with that, which I was.

And he could tell you loved her, right?

I think so it was it was.

A he had to check with my mom.

That was the big thing.

He left me hanging.

Left him hanging.

He left me hanging.

He didn't give me an answer the night that we talked.

Interesting.

He said he needed to chat with with Rebecca's mom and sleep on it, and.

But by by mid-morning the next day, I got the, uh, the head nod.

That was.

Good.

That was the green light.

Yes.

All right, so all of that is in the book lasting ever.

Rebecca Saint James, Cubbie Fink it does sound like kind of a hallmark, but as as any story will happen, there's some hurdles to get over and some rocks and some struggles.

And one of those for you, Rebecca, was infertility or struggling with miscarriage?

Yep.

For you, cubby.

One of the things was kind of when the when the of the group took off.

The people.

Yeah.

Foster the people took off.

You were with the band for a while.

And then was it, like, six years?

I can't remember.

Uh, roughly 6 or 7 years.

Okay.

So there was a time when, when that ended and you had to figure out.

Was it was that the kind of the low point for you was figuring out who am I without this success over here?

Yeah, I think that was the the moment where we felt a pretty massive shift in, in our seasons.

It was a an unexpected parting of ways and a pretty painful parting of ways with the band.

And, um, just threw me into the unknown.

Really?

um, because I had envisioned being on this, you know, trajectory for the unforeseeable future.

And suddenly I was not and kind of, um, thrown into the unknown.

And that really we talk about it in the book and we deem it our winter season.

And it really was kind of the beginning of that winter season for us.

And it just seemed like that was the first major blow.

And then it was just blow after blow after blow after blow, to the point where we just got knocked pretty, pretty deep into just some serious pain and confusion and and like you said, just identity crisis to a certain degree.

And I had never allowed myself to, to be allowed my identity to be too tied with the band.

I always was able to maintain a healthy perspective of my true identity.

And as a son of of the creator, um, but, you know, as men, we're wired to work.

And suddenly I was out of work and I was struggling with purpose.

And now I had a wife and a child to provide for.

So there was a lot of questioning and honestly, I was questioning the Lord, just desperately crying out for direction or the thing to do next.

And I was just met with silence, which was very unique for for me and my journey with the Lord.

Because at every other crossroads of my life, God was exponentially clear on where to go and how to get there.

And suddenly I'm at the crossroads of my life and desperately asking for direction and just being met with silence, which was probably the most painful thing in that season, which mirrors the mirrors.

Rebecca, the at about the same time, you're going through a similar thing in your own life, right?

Mhm.

Yeah.

I had quietly retired from music, um, um, a year or so into marriage.

So I was a couple years into it at that point and had probably been wrestling with my own sense of identity and value, just having, you know, done nearly 20 years of music at that point and writing books and, you know, writing songs and touring and, you know, acting and all the things.

And to then come to this place of, well, what do I really offer people, you know, if it's just me, you know, in this season and, and what is my value?

And I had a counselor actually, because I was doing a lot of counseling at that point.

And cubby was starting into counseling too at that time.

But I had a counselor tell me, Rebecca, you could sit in a room with someone and not say or do anything, not say anything to them, not do anything for them, and be incredibly valuable and such a blessing to them just because of your presence and who you are.

And I think God was teaching me to rest in him.

Um, and that I'm I'm enough because of who he's built me to be.

And I didn't have to perform to get approval from him or others.

When the counselor said that, did you did you agree at that?

Was it the light bulb?

Come on then, or did you have to sit with it a while?

Um, I mean, I think it was a profound like aha moment, like, oh, wow.

Yeah.

Wow.

But I think I had to learn how to live that out.

Learn how to kind of rest in in my identity and my value in him in a new way.

And I'm so thankful for that, because I think when we when we all are scrambling to perform in life, um, we're not really resting in our identity, in Jesus or who he says we are.

We're resting in, you know, how well we can do and and what we can do.

And, um, our purpose is not that on this earth, and it's it's in loving him and loving others and, and resting in who he has built us to be.

So it was a really formative time for me.

And and even as a mom, I'm so thankful I was learning those things then to to be able to live that out now in a different way with my kids.

I think that is the the heart of the book and the heart of your relationship together.

And you get to this place through some really hard struggles that you talk about and the counseling that you talked about and life situations and loss and all that, That you get to the place.

Where am I worth something to God because of what I bring to the table?

Or am I worth something to him simply because I'm his child and I'm loved by him, I'm embraced by him, and I can.

I can be okay with me no matter what I've accomplished or haven't accomplished.

I'm successful or not successful in my own eyes.

That's that's one of the things that comes out of this book that Cubby and Rebecca have written together.

It's titled Lasting Ever.

Our remaining moments coming up here on Chris Fabry Live on Moody Radio.

Cubby and Rebecca are joining me today.

Lasting ever is the story that they have written together.

And you can hear read his perspective and then her perspective on a lot of different things, and it sounds idyllic in a lot of ways, you know, and the snow falling and the eyes across the room.

But there's some real losses in here and some real trauma that they have gone through mountain tops and valleys, and they write about it all in lasting ever.

It's just out.

It's been out about a week.

And if you go to the website, Chris Fabry Live, you can see it there.

One of the things I wanted to get to before we end here is and this is for any man listening, who or a woman who loves a man who has had trauma in the past and who doesn't want to keep on moving forward.

That's in the past, and I don't want to go.

You had some trauma, and I don't I don't know exactly know what it is, but you had some trauma that you had to uncover.

And it wasn't until that point that you really started digging down to the the layers of what we've just been talking about.

Tell me about how hard that was and why you went ahead and did it.

Yeah.

Um, it really was in that in that season that, um.

The winter season.

Yeah, the winter season that that unresolved pain really started to fester and come, come to a head.

And, and it was clear that it was, it was time to deal with it.

Um, and, and I think there's, there was such beauty in that season because it was a forced pause.

Um, I think had life just continued to go on as well as it was going, it could have, you know, continued to just get swept under the rug and not dealt with.

And, and really, it was, it was something that there was some divine protection in the sense that there was just some memories that I didn't have.

There was a season in my life when I was about five years old where, while I remember everything else in my life, there was certain memories that were just not there.

And it it was always a bit of a question mark around those missing memories, but I never pushed into it.

But just based on some different things as as I developed in my life, I could tell that I was operating from a place of woundedness, and that woundedness only became more apparent in this winter season that Rebecca and I were walking through.

Um, just because my reactions to what should have been normal things were just far more heightened.

Heightened, um, they just weren't congruent with, with the situations themselves.

And, and, um, and ultimately got to the point where I just knew that I needed help.

I knew that I couldn't do it on my own.

I knew that I needed to, to be the best husband that I could be to my wife, and to be the best father that I could be to my child.

I needed to get healthy and and deal with the pain.

And and so that started a journey of finding a counselor and ultimately going down the path of facing some pretty hard stuff, which was not entirely fun.

And it's not something that I was looking forward to, but ultimately, I knew the journey would would lead to I to healing.

Because.

Because I just believe in the freedom and the healing that Jesus provides and ultimately led to uncovering those memories.

But but Rebecca.

Couldn't.

She couldn't be the one to do that.

You had to.

I mean, she could help you.

She could walk with you, encourage you.

But she wasn't.

She couldn't do the work for you, right?

Right, right.

And it and it was work.

I mean, it was something where I would need, you know, between a couple of weeks to a couple of months between sessions just to regain the emotional energy and strength to to continue to walk down that journey.

And, and, uh.

I was just so proud of him, though, Chris, because, you know, some men think, oh, to be macho and to pretend like everything's fine.

That's that's that's what it means to be masculine or be a man.

And, you know, we were just in New York this past weekend and did Good Morning America and Fox and Friends and.

And on these shows he's saying like it takes he was committed to.

Pressing into these parts of his life that held trauma because he wanted to get to the other side and to the freedom.

And he wanted to be the best husband and father that he could be.

And it was really our son coming, you know, me being pregnant with our son, that especially encouraged him to press fully into it.

And Jesus showed up for him.

Yeah.

Like that.

That's the miracle of it.

And he's he's so much stronger on the other side of it.

And I think we all are when we press into our pain and move through it to the freedom that God has for us.

But I'm very proud of him as a wife.

I just I'm incredibly proud of that, that kind of courage because it's true courage.

Yeah.

And I think that the thing that's probably the most beautiful kind of exclamation mark on this story is the fact that the thing that I was most fearful of was uncovering those memories.

But when it got to the point of actually uncovering the memories, what I saw was Jesus.

What I saw was his empathy.

What I saw was his compassion.

What I saw was his tears, his eyes filled with tears, saying, I did not want this for you.

My heart breaks that you had to walk through this and saw him in the midst of it and saw his just loving embrace.

And the healing that that that produced was absolutely revolutionary.

I walked out of that encounter a new person, and having dealt with that pain and putting it to a place of of rest, I can honestly say I'm I'm a new human.

Wow.

See, that was the word that I was thinking of.

Pride.

Pride.

I'm proud of you for doing that.

And any man who can go there.

Any woman too, of course.

But any man who can go that hard place because it is a really hard place to go and to dig down with the layers.

So with the goal of being the person that you really want to be and that God wants you to be.

You know, in the end, I think this book is going to set some men free.

I know that a lot of women will want to read this because they know you, Rebecca, and they've they've heard your story.

They've seen the movie Unsung Hero and others.

But I think a lot of men need lasting ever faith, music, family and being found by true love.

So great to meet both of you.

Thanks for stopping by today and it's such.

A blessing to be with you.

Yeah.

Thank you for having us.

Thanks.

Such a joy.

Appreciate it.

You guys tell me your your hair cream too, by the end.

Okay.

I'll pass on the secret.

Yeah, yeah.

Uh, go to the website.

You'll see it right there.

Lasting ever.

Chris Fabry lives production of Moody Radio, a ministry of Moody Bible Institute.