Are you living the life you were born to live?

Let those words sink in today.

Let that question linger in your soul.

Are you living a life with purpose and meaning and direction and even joy?

The life you were born to live.

Today at the radio backyard fence.

This might be a game changer for you.

I have a guest who believes a lot of Christians are missing the life they were reborn to live.

And the reason you're not living fully is that you have listened to the lies that have robbed you of your intimacy with God, robbed you of your purpose, your meaning.

How do you uncover and dismantle those falsehoods?

You might not even know you believe some help and hope is on the way.

Today on Chris Fabry live program From the heart to the heart for the heart, author and pastor Gary Thomas wants to help you flourish.

He is straight ahead.

Thank you for joining us.

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Gary Thomas is a best selling author speaker.

He speaks around the country, around the world.

Who wants to unite the study of Scripture, church history and the Christian classics to foster spiritual growth and deeper relationships within the Christian community.

You may have read one of his books, Sacred Marriage Authentic Faith When to Walk Away.

Many others.

For 11 years he was on the teaching team at Second Baptist in Houston.

Currently, he is moved to God's Country in Colorado Cherry Hills Community Church in Highlands Ranch, Colorado.

I know exactly where that is, and it's a gorgeous place, especially this time of year.

The life You Were reborn to live as our featured resource at Chris Fabry Live.com.

Gary welcome back.

How are you doing today?

Thank you Chris, great to be back.

I want to ask you a question before we dive into the this life and the dismantling and the lies and all that.

I've been asking listeners and guests who come on here about the awakening, about the stirring, about the thing that I'm seeing in the country and younger people especially.

Are you seeing something at your church there in Colorado, or with your finger on the pulse of pulse beat of Christianity?

Is God doing something in our day?

Well, I.

Certainly hope so.

I mean, we're seeing great signs we just had a few weeks ago all called baptism.

We had 84 baptisms that day, which is pretty good for our church at this point.

Um, I am seeing people, I think, with a new passion, a new courage, a new conviction that Christianity isn't something we just want to play around with but get a little bit more serious.

So I'm I'm praying it will continue.

You know, Chris, I'm I'm in my early 60s, so I've seen a lot of these come and go, but this is one that I'm really hoping and believe is very likely that this is one that could sustain itself.

We need a new movement of God, that's for sure.

And I mentioned the the Chip Ingram book there about choosing a lot of this is about us choosing to not respond or react to things, but to respond to things, don't you think?

Oh, 100%, yeah.

Uh, we have a hope.

We have a basis.

We have a whole new way of looking at life.

That's sort of where the title of the book come to life.

You are reborn to live.

We live in an entirely new mindset, entirely new purpose, an entirely new values.

I think the more we lean into that, we're certainly going to see at least a movement of God in our own lives, and hopefully in our communities and churches.

It looks like from the dedication of this book that there were a group of men that you met with, and this book kind of came out of that rich relationship, am I right?

It was.

There was a lawyer in Houston, Texas, who started getting us together in 2010.

Uh, and it's like, I feel so blessed.

One of the members is, uh, Doctor Robert Sloan.

He had been a past president of Baylor.

He's now president of Houston Christian University.

And Chris, that guy knows his Bible.

When you look at the whole scripture as well as anybody I've ever met and I've met a lot, he has spent a lifetime studying, and it's a lot of fun.

So we have a couple lawyers, and then I threw a little joke out there occasionally.

David, he is the go getter businessman who doesn't show up every time, but it's always fun to have him come on board.

So what is the idea of these 12 lives and how do we dismantle them?

Tell me about it.

Well, let me start with a story with my granddaughter.

That sort of puts it into perspective.

She was three years old at the time we were traveling.

A fire truck came by with the lights flashing and the sirens are blaring.

And I looked at her and she scrunched up her eyes and covered her ears.

I mean, it looked like she was in total pain.

I thought, wow, well, you know, she's got little ears and it's scary.

The next day we were walking somewhere else and I saw her start to make the same reaction, but I couldn't hear a siren.

Now I have older ears.

So I listened and way off in the distance I could barely discern the siren and thought, boy, this has been traumatic for her for some reason.

I'm not sure why, but well, she's got great parents.

They take the time to really train and teach her.

So three months later, we're there.

I'm walking with her when a siren goes by and I'm thinking, oh no.

And I look at her and she's just chill.

And she looks at me almost with disdain, saying, it's okay, Papa, they're just going to help someone.

And I love what her parents did as they said.

I know this is loud, but it should actually make you feel comforted that you live in a world where if somebody needs help, they send out these loud noises so people get out of the way so they can go help them.

And so that you know that if you're in a situation where you need help, somebody will hurry and others will get out of the way so somebody can help you.

So something that used to terrify her, even perhaps traumatize her now is a source of comfort.

And what I've found, Chris, I've tried to devote my life to helping people get closer to Christ and closer to others.

I'd say the last decade has been focused more on closer to others with the marriage books and all that.

But it all goes back to that intimacy with Christ.

And Satan is a liar.

Jesus calls him John eight, the father of lies.

He doesn't care what the lie is, but these are 12 popular lies that if we accept them unthinkingly, what it does is creates frustration with God and bitterness toward God, and then becomes a wedge to try to pull us away from God.

And that's ball game.

Yeah.

Exactly.

And and you're saying there's an antidote to that.

But the part of the problem is that we can't even see some of the lies that we're believing.

And there were three of them in here that I really felt like I wanted to deal with today, because they are eating my lunch, and you're going to help me.

Gary Thomas is with us today.

You can find out more about him and the book The Life You Were Reborn to Live at Chris Faber, Livorno.

Chris Fabbri, Livorno more straight ahead on Moody Radio.

This is Chris Faber.

Live on Moody Radio.

The life you were reborn to live.

When I saw this.

And then I saw the subtitle dismantling 12 Lies that Rob Your Intimacy with God.

I thought, I've got to talk with Gary Thomas, and we're doing it today because he wants to help us dismantle restlessness, dismantle the need to be in control, dismantle family first isolation, self-centered salvation.

Here's another one that's for me.

Dismantle the need for comfort.

And?

And they're more.

We're going to talk about them straight ahead.

(877) 548-3675 is our number.

So before we get into all of those specifics, and I've got a bunch of them that I need to be specific, tell me the spiritual lie.

Because as I said before the break, that's the problem.

We can't see these lies that we're believing, right?

Right.

Paul said in Romans 12 two, don't conform to the pattern of this world.

Now the word world in Greek is aion, so you could also translate it age.

And I like that every generation is trying to shape us into its own mold.

You will think this, you will believe this, you will value this, you will prefer this.

And Paul is saying, if we don't fight back mentally, we're just going to be shaped into that mold and not even realize it.

But he said, we should be transformed.

That's fighting back by the renewing of our minds.

Going with the truth.

Just as Satan is a father of lies, Jesus said, I am the way, the truth, and the life.

And so it's an active process that we should assume we're being lied to.

We should check the premises of what fills our hearts and what we've been directed by.

And the whole point of being reborn is not just being sprinkled with water so that we're wet, but being transformed by the renewing of our minds.

It's an active process.

What are the lies I've believed?

What is Scripture really say?

And when I line those up, how can I be transformed by that understanding?

Standing.

You gave an example at the beginning, and I grew up with this that, you know, butter is bad for you.

Margarine is so much better for you.

It's like, well, yeah, it's made sense to us back then, didn't it?

It did.

My my mom would serve this in this tub that said, I can't believe it's not butter.

For the record, I could.

And but we all thought, you know, I mean, how many people were eating these trans fats thinking this is healthier than butter.

And we know it's not.

And and other things, like, you have to wait an hour after you go swimming or you'll get cramps.

And the thinking was, when you eat, all of your blood goes to the digestive system, which starves your limbs so that you get cramps and perhaps drown.

The Mayo Clinic says no science behind that at all.

Or if you crack your knuckles, you're going to get arthritis.

Well, no, it won't cause arthritis.

Might cause divorce if it really bothers your spouse.

And so it might have been a, you know, a upset spouse that came up with that.

But those are all myths that aren't that serious.

But these are spiritual lies that I think have a spiritual agenda that we have to say, I don't want to be stamped by this age.

I want to be stamped by the beautiful, glorious, powerful truth of God's Word.

Yes.

And one of the first things that you deal with then, is this whole idea of, of re, of spiritual, of I don't want to make it too spiritual, even though it is but this striving that we have that we've got to get this we got to accomplish all of this, and then we're going to arrive a restless heart.

What is the lie behind that?

That piece is situational, not relational.

And here's what I mean by that.

Most of us value peace.

We just, in trying to get peace, are actually chasing it away.

And I lean heavily on Henry Drummond, who wrote an incredible book, The Greatest Thing in the world, a couple hundred years ago.

But the thinking is, if I can fix my world so that I have a certain amount of financial security, I'm in relatively decent health.

All of my family members are good with me.

They're following the Lord.

I don't have any enemies.

I like whoever's in office.

I'm happy what's happening in my church.

If I can make all of these things true, I'll finally have peace.

That overwhelming sense that everything is okay.

I'm not worried about anxiety or the shoe that's about to drop, Henry Drummond points out.

None of those things will ever all be true.

In fact, he says, how none of them were true with Jesus in the sense of he had fair weather friends that deserted him.

He had enemies that wanted to kill him.

He didn't have a home, and yet he personified peace.

And so when I begin to realize that peace is relational, it's the presence of Jesus not trying to fix my world.

Then I surrender and I don't chase after the things that that make peace a foreigner.

Let me give an example.

My own life I've.

I've done distance running my whole life from the time I was in high school.

There's a time I was doing a couple marathons a year for weight management, for stress, for me being out of doors and worshiping.

I mean, it's just it's just nothing like it.

But I've really had an issue the last year or two.

I've torn meniscus in my right knee.

It's been really difficult to get out there running.

And because of this chapter, knowing how important peace is, what matters most is seeking my refuge in Jesus.

As much as I love running and miss it, it's more important that I'm close to God than that I get to run.

And if I become bitter with God because this situation is frustrating me, I'm losing far more than my ability to run.

I'm losing my source of joy, power, peace.

Um, everything that's related to intimacy with God.

And so instead of trying to fix everything in my life to have peace, I just look to Jesus and I'm grateful that he's got his arms around me.

And that's where I find my peace.

And that takes you back to the my own life is the greatest times of of growth for me, both spiritually, uh, professionally, relationally, have been in times of real difficulty and real struggle.

And yet I don't want that.

I want that's another one of the things you talk about.

I want comfort.

And since I love to write stories, what I've had editors say to me in reading my stories is, Chris, you're making it too easy on your characters.

You got to have conflict in here.

You got to have stuff because that's where the stories grow.

You will grab people's imagination in the conflict because that's what they're going through.

And then I look at my own life and I, and I, you know, bend over backwards trying to not have any struggle and conflict in my life.

And what I've done is I've kind of kept God at arm's length to to do what he wants to do.

So I'm slowly learning.

Like you, I'm slowly learning to let him in, to give me this stirring, this struggle, this conflict, so that he can take me where he wants me to go rather than where I think I need to go.

Does that make sense?

100%.

And I agree with you.

For novels you need conflict.

But I would also say for spiritual maturity, we need conflict in that chapter on comfort.

Uh, dismantling the need for comfort and learning the value of adversity.

I lean heavily on Thomas Brooks.

He wrote two brilliant books, Mute Christian, Under the Smarting Rod, and one is Precious Remedies Against Satan's Devices.

People can't tell he was a Puritan.

So we're talking a few hundred years back.

But he said, I love this affliction, is a fire to purge out our dross and to make our graces shine.

Affliction is the remedy which cures all our spiritual diseases.

I had written before about surrendering to difficulty and not resisting and whatnot, but Thomas Brooks helped me see how much I need difficulty, I need discomfort, and the kind of discomfort I don't like.

He would say we need times of humiliation.

We need times of pain that we can't grow without them.

And so when I learn to appreciate it, it just changes my mindset when I face that, because discomfort is going to come to all of us.

Chris, the only thing is will we learn from it and grow in it, or will we resist it and become bitter and colder toward God and frustrated with God.

And.

Even bigger shoulders?

Yeah, as a as a parent, that's where it also becomes hard because I want to make the road easier for my children.

I don't want them to struggle.

And really what I'm doing is keeping myself from their discomfort, you know, and how it kind of leaks back on me.

And that is stunting their own growth.

Uh, I'm the same way.

I think I'm particularly weak as a parent in that way.

But God is a much better parent than we are.

He has this vision of what we could be in Christ with the power of the Holy Spirit.

And so discomfort just awakens my eyes to the need for Jesus, how dependent I am on Jesus.

It brings humility and frankly, it it brings.

This will sound bizarre to people.

It brings a life of gratitude and worship.

You know how it is when you've been really sick for 3 or 4 days, and then you wake up and you're not sick, and how suddenly you're so grateful to feel well, even though for months before that you felt well, you weren't particularly grateful.

But you realize, well, this is what I could be feeling.

And so it just creates a whole new orientation toward God.

It's great at pushing pride back.

We realize our limitations.

Um, it.

And God just often reveals himself to us in our afflictions.

He opens up our ears in a way that nothing else does.

That's why Thomas Brooks calls difficulties God's love tokens.

Now, they're not always love tokens.

We want to open our hands to receive.

But.

But that's his motivation.

Yeah.

I don't want those.

I want those to go into the the carnival ride.

Some places they know these are too hard.

But you've done what I mentioned in the beginning of the program.

You really believe that we have jettisoned the wisdom of the the classics, of the people who have gone before us, and we to get back to some of that wisdom that that will help us today.

Right?

Yeah.

well, it really got me started thinking about this book, to be honest.

My wife and I were going away.

A trip I'd been speaking at focus on the family.

This was back when we were in Texas.

Lisa found out about some hot springs in Glenwood Springs, Colorado.

She said, hey, Gary, let's take a couple extra days.

We'll go out there, these brilliant hot springs, a number of 12 pools or whatnot.

So Lisa and I are there enjoying them afterwards, and I'm guessing it was a bachelorette party because there were probably 9 or 10 young women, I'd say in their 20s or maybe early 30s, and they came in the tub when we were there because these these are big.

It's not like you would normally think.

And and they're just all talking about how to look and keep looking young.

Now, they already looked young to us.

Right.

Because I said they're in their 20s, early 30s, but they were all of the money they were spending.

The doctors, one of them said, oh, all the Kardashians are doing this now.

And my wife finally says, Gary, can we go to another one?

I go, absolutely, so we do.

And my wife asked me, does it bother you that I'm not into that?

And I've just been reading William Law, one of my favorite Anglicans, and I love what he said.

Um, when he said that women and men should earnestly pursue humility, patience, generosity, faith, compassion, courage, kindness, and forgiveness with the same intensity that those in the world pursue wealth, fame, worldly achievement, and physical beauty.

Mm.

I said, honey, that's that's what it means to be reborn.

That that this battle to always look younger than you are.

It's a failing battle to begin with.

But secondly, we should seek.

Am I am I becoming a more humble person?

Am I becoming more compassionate?

Am I kinder?

Am I more courageous that we have a whole different thing that we aspire to get if we're spending our money, if we're thinking, if we're talking, if we're encouraging each other, it's toward the virtues of Christ, not toward the virtues of this world that says a woman matters most when she looks at least 15 younger years younger than she really is.

Yeah.

And isn't this where we.

And I'm still on the very first one?

The restlessness.

Isn't this where a lot of people, uh, retirement age?

It's like, if I could just finish this and I can get to my retirement and arrive here, then.

Oh, I'm going to.

And I was.

I wish that for everybody, you know, that you get to retirement, you get to, uh, live where you want to live.

If I could just live near the beach, or if I could just be near the mountains like you are, if I could live there in Colorado, then everything.

And there is this restlessness that when you arrive, you realize that wasn't it, uh, you know, if I could get my lips filled or I could get a tuck in my, you know, like you're talking about take take away these little wrinkles in the corner of my eyes.

It's like, no, no, that's and I don't.

If you've done that, you know, it's it's it's I'm not a casting shade on you, but you realize if you have that that wasn't it.

There's something deeper, right?

There's a whole new life to live.

And it what Drummond says so strongly in that chapter is that it's pursuing those things that causes us to be restless.

We think I don't have satisfaction until it comes, but by calling peace relational to help people understand what I mean, imagine you're in Galveston, Texas, right?

Just when a Cat five hurricane hits.

And I've talked to people who have been through hurricanes, I'm not speaking of Galveston here, but literally the roof gets lifted off their house.

They're in an inner bathroom, usually in a, um, in a bathtub.

If you don't have a cellar, that's often what they tell you to do.

The walls are starting to go.

Furniture is flying.

I mean, it's terrifying, but picture that Jesus walks into that room and maybe he walks straight up to you and he takes your cheeks in his hands.

I like to picture a ten foot tall Jesus that comes up behind me and wraps his arms behind me, with Jesus holding on to me.

The storm doesn't matter anymore.

In fact, as a guy, I'm going to open up my eyes and watch the show.

I'm going to say, this is amazing.

I mean, look at this and wow, the cows are flying.

And and what?

Because if I know Jesus has me, everything else is is relative.

But if you're thinking, I gotta crawl to safety, I've got to put that roof back on my house.

I've got to rebuild the walls.

You know, it's just not going to happen because life is a storm and look like everybody.

I'm saving for retirement.

But I remember 2008.

And what was it, 2020?

When you do everything right, you save all you can and then you watch it go down 30 or 40%.

I mean, there is no security in this world, but there is complete security in Jesus.

This.

You know, where that analogy breaks down, though, is the disciples had Jesus right?

He wasn't ten feet tall as far as we know, but he was right there with them in the boat when the winds, wind and the waves were coming.

And he's asleep and it's like they are.

They are freaking out, and you and I would be, too.

Let's be honest.

Especially me.

Um, and and then they wake him up.

You know, don't you care for us?

And Jesus says in one of the situations there, he says, uh, o ye of little faith.

Where is your faith?

It's like, well, I'll tell you where it is.

My my faith is in you.

But look at this right here.

Don't you see what's going on?

I think that is a real feeling that the disciples had.

And it's something that probably somebody's going through right now.

Don't.

Jesus, don't you see the cows flying around in the storm that I'm in right now?

Don't you care about me?

What is the antidote?

What is the lie that you're believing about him that you need to overcome?

That's what Gary Thomas has written about in this book.

If this is touching a nerve in your life, I'd love to hear from you.

87754836758775483675.

Our featured resource.

The life you were reborn to live.

More straight ahead.

We're talking about the lies we believe today.

Gary Thomas is with us.

I want to talk with you about Carenet for just a minute, though, because in today's culture, one of the lies is, hey, if you have an unexpected pregnancy, you need to take care of this because this is especially if you're young.

This is going to change your life.

You'll never be able to live the life that you really want because that baby is unwanted, unexpected.

And the truth about that is that each life is precious.

That's why Cornette's network of affiliated pregnancy centers are doing what they do every day, and have been for the last 50 years.

They have saved more than 67,000 unborn lives in the last year.

Let that sink in.

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Click the green connect link.

I think it'll encourage you.

Chris.

Fabriclive.

Chris.

Fabriclive.

Gary Thomas is with us today.

The life you were reborn to live.

Dismantling 12 lies that rob your intimacy with God.

We've talked about restlessness.

We need to move to control.

And in the overview of this, this is one of mine.

I have talked about this ad nauseam.

You say letting go of control of our lives may feel scary and even irresponsible, but when we give control to God, we will be directed by him.

And he's much better at controlling our lives than we are.

I wholeheartedly believe that, Gary.

I believe that with every fiber of my being.

And yet when I find something that gives me even the, you know, I'll be overcharged something at at the grocery store, you know, broccoli, I got charged $0.12 more and I got to take control of that.

And I got to drive and probably use $3 in gas, you know, to get back, to make this right, to have control, to feel and that there's something about that little thing that makes me feel in control of my life when everything else is out of control, to help me with that.

Yeah, it's I think one of the verses that we don't wrestle with enough is John three eight.

The wind blows where it pleases.

You hear its sound, but you don't know where it comes from or where it is going.

So it is with everyone born of the spirit.

Of course, every Christian is born of the spirit.

We need spiritual adventure, and I think when we control our lives too much, we forfeit a lot.

We become bored.

I think it impacts our marriages negatively.

I think it's less of a model from which to raise kids, and I think we limit our ministry.

Uh, I'm just telling you, because, you know, I've, I've focused a lot on marriages, but when couples are so focused on how can I get my needs met, how can I get him to do this?

How can I get her to not do that?

And all the questions are just trying to turn our spouse into somebody that loves us, like we want to be loved.

If they would take a step back and say, God, what can we do for you?

What spiritual adventure are you calling us to?

How can we seek first the Kingdom of God?

Matthew 633.

In a way that brings life to our marriage and excitement.

Um, and it's just a different form of life that God is building his kingdom.

Every day we open our eyes.

We don't demand miracles.

You can't make things like this happen.

But, Lord, if there's someone you need me to talk to, if there's a gift of money I can give, if there's a encouraging word I can suggest to someone that just fires up a marriage.

And I think it's a great basis with which to raise kids.

We could be so focused on getting our kids to not do this and not look at that and not drink this.

But what if in the morning we send them off saying, hey, God wants to use you?

We tell them stories in the Gospels and the story of the book of acts.

I mean, Jesus seems so spontaneous in his ministry, the disciples as well.

Hey, let's pray that God will open your eyes today.

Maybe there's a classmate you can encourage, a coach, maybe a teacher, maybe somewhere you could stand up for someone.

And then at the end of the day, instead of did you do.

You know, not do this.

It's like, hey, anybody have any stories about how God used them?

And just opening up our eyes and ears, that it gives us that sense of adventure that we spiritually crave.

But when we have this controlled faith, I'm going to do this, this, then that, and this is how I'm going to do it.

We end up getting bored in our walk with God.

You know, the other thing we do is we make it about us.

Uh, and and your kids.

That's a really good analogy, because I've had kids who've come back from college and who are voting different than I am, and it's like I want to grab them and say, how in the world can you think that way?

Uh, now that they're a little bit older, they've kind of come around and they agree with me.

But, um, this whole idea of if somebody says something, somebody I care about says something to me that I disagree with.

Then I need to change their mind.

Number one.

Number two, I need to get them to see the truth.

Because I know the truth.

And you know, I've got to force fit them into this.

And so then I start to back away from that and figure out how am I going to make that happen.

You know how I make the dominoes fall in the right way, and that is massively, uh, unsuccessful as far as I'm concerned, in my experience.

But but if you if you let go of that control of having the person be who you want them to be and think and vote and you know.

ET cetera, et cetera.

Uh, and even on, on social media, say the things, if you can let go of the control and ask the questions.

Tell me more about that.

Tell me why.

Why do you why do you think that way?

Why do you listen to that song?

What is it about that that, you know, for our kids or something else?

When you become curious, then that's part of the non control isn't it.

Right.

And it's also teaching them that Christianity is more like walking through a jungle than working on an assembly line in a factory.

You know an assembly line in a factory.

You know what's coming because it's been doing that for weeks on end.

You know what you're supposed to do.

You know how long it's supposed to take.

It feels safe.

You know everything around you.

But it's boring.

You walk through a jungle.

You don't know what animal is going to be there.

You don't know what sounds you're hearing.

But it creates this sense of adventure where we trust God.

And what you said earlier, Chris, it not only impacts our relationship with our kids, but but with God.

If if my wife says, I'm going to pick up the milk, I say great.

And then I text her.

Did you get the milk?

And then I call you.

Sure, you're going to get the milk?

And then I texted, are you sure I really need that milk?

I said, she's going to say, Gary, this is an insult.

All right.

You told me to do this.

You put it in your hands.

Just let me do it.

And how many of us have put our requests before the Lord?

And then is it there?

God?

Have you done it yet?

Did you forget God?

Are you going to do this?

God?

And?

And it's the same way where this talk we talked about peace earlier in the hour.

This is where you have peace.

When you say, God, I put this in your capable hands.

I don't see a natural solution.

I can't make this happen.

But I'm going to leave it with you.

Um, I talked with one father who, um, has a daughter that's breaking his heart, and he's terrified for her eternal future.

Frankly, the decisions he's making.

But he told me, Gary, I can't explain why, but I've put it in God's hands.

And I have this overwhelming sense of security that God has got this.

I don't know how he's going to make it happen.

I just know that he has he's given me the spiritual assurance.

Um, we we worship a more than capable God who is amazing and and and so varied in the way he reached with people.

I think what helps a lot of parents when they have kids who have gone astray is Jesus on the cross.

And he looks at one of the thieves and he says, look, today you'll be with me in Paradise.

Just that one look.

And the guy was in and and we know if our kids know the truth of the gospel, we don't know how Jesus speaks to them or at the end or what or when he steps in.

But we know that's his desire.

Paul wrote to Timothy.

God desires that everyone come to a knowledge of the truth.

We know his capability.

We can't control it.

And sometimes when we control it, we insult them and make it worse.

But but let's focus on life usually works better when God is controlling our lives than when we are.

Yeah.

Okay, so so I know somebody needed to hear that because I.

I'm one of them.

Uh, and the there's a a theorem or a postulate or some kind of equation that you're getting to by putting trust on the left side and love on the other.

If I don't trust fully in God and His power, because that's the only one that can make a difference in somebody's life, and I don't put my trust fully in that.

There's no way I can love the other person that who's in my life, because I'm constantly trying to control them and get them to act the way that I want them to act, rather than let them be moved by God inside.

So my total trust has to be in God and His work in me first, and then in that other person.

And if that I don't know what the symbol is, it's not equal or greater than there's something else yields.

Maybe trust can yield that kind of love and loving.

Well do you agree with that?

Oh 100%.

And what it creates Chris, is what the world needs.

People who are at peace.

This settledness that if we don't have to make it happen, we can rest in the hope of a powerful God who can make it happen.

And and that's a far better perspective when somebody is with us and we're worried about them.

Uh, and we're uptight and we're anxious.

They pick that up.

They read that.

But when they see that we're settled, even then, they know our hearts are breaking or we don't have the answer.

But we have this peace that points to a supernatural reality.

Loving and worshiping God and hoping in him.

Not our ability to figure it out.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Or understanding even.

I was thinking about this because there's a lot in the, in the proverbs about understanding.

And it's like, if I could understand this, if I get to understand what's going on here, if I could see God, what you're doing and I can just see, you know, God kind of over the portals of heaven, kind of shaking his head.

No, no, this is not for you to understand.

This is.

This is for you to believe and to trust in me.

I got this.

And what would the world look like if you and I were to live that way?

Uh, this.

As I told you at the beginning of the program, this book has eaten my lunch.

The life You were reborn to Live by Gary Thomas.

Dismantling 12 lives that robbed your intimacy with God.

It's our featured resource.

Click through today's information right there at Chris.

Moore straight ahead on Moody Radio.

Our remaining moments with Gary Thomas.

You know him from Sacred Marriage.

Their million or more of those books out there.

Authentic faith.

When to walk away.

Uh, his pastor in Colorado.

Now, he's written the life you were reborn to live, dismantling 12 lies that rob your intimacy with God.

We talked about a number of these, uh, dismantling apathy toward church.

Anybody need to hear about that?

Dismantling our materialistic worldview, dismantling, uh, our, uh, complacency or, uh, our ignorance there about being complacent.

There's a story that you tell in the book about a standing ovation that you really wanted.

Can you tell me that story?

Well, you know, look, I've been on the speaking circuit for a long time, so I'm at conferences with other speakers or whatnot.

And I saw this one guy that that usually will get a standing ovation.

And I've seen so many presentations and whatnot.

I was just kind of curious.

I thought the content was was was pretty good.

But I noticed there were three things that the speaker always did that would kind of set up the standing ovation.

And I think we just lost Gary.

And I'm wondering what those three things are.

But, uh, because I don't think in the book that he, he talked about that, but he, he really wanted and how he would normally end his talks was he would pray.

Uh, and he said, I realized that nobody wants to give a standing ovation after a person prays at the end, and for good reason.

And, and, uh, he's seen a number of these, you know, situations where the person ends and then everybody stands and they clap.

Well, who wouldn't want that?

Who wouldn't want that outcome?

But the more he looked at it, the more he studied it.

Not that there's anything wrong with a standing ovation, but the more he looked at it, the more he studied it, the more he realized, no, that's not what I want.

I am.

For going for an audience of one.

I'm not here for the crowd to say how great I am.

That will give me this good feeling of a standing ovation.

That's not what this is about.

This is about me being faithful with what God has told me to tell you, to talk to you about, to be faithful with that and then to commit it to him.

So in a sense, that's kind of what we've been talking about here the whole hour of dismantling the lies, my need for this comfort in my life.

Not that Jesus doesn't want you to have comfort, but if that's what you move toward, whether it's a pill or a drink or bingeing a show or that kind of thing going to social media, you know, it will ease this pain for a little while and give you a bit of comfort, but it won't assuage the huge need that you have deep inside.

And that's why he titled the book The Life You Were Reborn to Live.

Well, what does that mean?

reborn.

That means born from above.

That means that when you give your life to God, he comes in, he takes residence, and he changes you from the inside out rather than the outside in.

Because the Christian life is not this self-help.

Do it yourself.

Pull yourself up by your bootstraps kind of thing.

The the spiritual, the Christian life is something that only God can do on the inside.

And when you put away that we talked about this yesterday, when you put away that desire to do it myself, I want to I want to please God.

I want to score points with God.

I want my good to outweigh my bad.

God says, as is a perfect God.

That's not going to that's not going to do it for him.

Uh, that that's not going to get you into that relationship with God.

Only he can provide that.

And that's why letting go and letting go of that control, letting go of the comfort.

Gary even says dismantling the demand for a sin free life.

Now what about, you know, I want a sin free life.

But he says the sin and I well, look at David.

The sin in his life allowed him to repent and to bring him.

Oh, I think I hear Gary again, just to have Gary move over there to that, uh, to that microphone.

You don't want the sin free life on your own.

You want what God has done.

Okay, Gary, uh, come back in here and tell me about more about that standing ovation, okay?

Okay.

I'm sorry, Chris, it might have been the best part of the interview, right?

That's always the part that gets cut.

Where did I drop out?

I'm so sorry.

Did I even get to explain it?

Yeah, no, but I did.

I said that you were looking at, um, this, you know, this desire that you had, and you realize that the people who pray at the end of their messages never get a standing ovation.

And that you were you were doing this for an audience of one.

You weren't doing it for the response of the audience.

You were doing it because you're being faithful to what God wanted you to do.

Just talk about that for a minute.

Yeah, well, I had seen the three things that usually lead up to a standing ovation.

I tried it out the next time it worked, and so I don't do it again.

Uh, in fact, I just finished a marriage conference this last weekend in Illinois.

Moody country of all places.

And I have the couples end with prayer because it sets it apart.

Now, one of the reasons is I discuss this with my wife and she would know if I'm doing it or not, and she'd be thinking, oh, seriously, Gary, you're going to go there because I don't want the applause of the crowd if it causes the disdain of my wife.

Well, I think the same way.

What audience are we playing to?

That's the whole point of the life you're reborn to live.

And there's a story in there from the book of acts about Paul.

Before Agrippa, Agrippa had all the power when he met with Paul.

Paul had nothing.

He was a smelly prisoner.

And yet today, 2000 years later, we read Paul every day.

Nobody remembers Agrippa.

The life you reborn to live is about finding God as your primary audience and playing to him.

Not the world, not our age, not the crowd.

Yeah, we so need that reminder.

And thank you for revivifying these lives, these men and women who have written in antiquity that we kind of move along, you know, keep on moving because we got something new here.

We look at their words, we look at their lives, and we see God at work there, and he can do the same thing for us.

So thank you for your work and come back and see us real soon.

Gary.

God bless you.

I'd love to, Chris.

Thank you.

Gary Thomas again, best selling author, international speaker who really believes in the power of God's Word but also believes in this.

The power of the people who populate church history and have written some classics.

He's included some of that in this book, The Life You Were Reborn to Live dismantling 12 lies that rob Your Intimacy with God.

It's our featured resource at Chris Fabry life.

Chris Fabry lives.

Boy, I sure hope something that we've talked about here today has been helpful to you.

Come on back for another conversation here at the back fence.

Shanti and James are going to be talking about when hurting people come to church.

What do you do?

We'll talk about it on Chris Fabry live production of Moody Radio, a ministry of Moody Bible Institute.

Thanks a lot for listening.