Eric Balcavage: Hey everybody, it's Dr Eric Balcavage.

We're back for another edition of the thyroid Answers podcast, where we kind of go beyond the numbers to uncover what's really driving your symptoms.

Today I'm joined by negeen Abdullah, an online weight loss coach who specializes in helping high achieving women lose weight without extreme dieting or hours in the gym.

But this isn't your typical weight loss conversation.

We're going to dive deep into real reasons why women, especially those dealing with thyroid issues, may struggle to lose weight even when they're doing all the right things, from the hidden facts of stress hormone resistance to metabolic power of spices, blood sugar, balance and emotional patterns around food, this episode should pull back the curtain on the missing pieces in The Weight Loss puzzle.

So Nagina, welcome to the thyroid Answers podcast.

How are you today?

I'm great, Eric.

It's so great to be here with you.

So let's, let's, we'll start by getting, getting a little bit of your background.

Give us a little bit, maybe a short background on how you got into the weight loss space.

Nagina Abdullah: Yes, absolutely.

Well, I actually personally struggled with sugar cravings my entire life, and my weight, I was always frustrated about my body, even though I always I was doing so much more work than everyone around me.

I was watching my calories.

I was looking at how much like making sure I wasn't getting too many calories.

I was exercising.

I was trying every diet out there, from Weight Watchers to nutrisym to South Beach to Atkins, exercising a lot and eating less.

And no matter what I did, I would be able to lose some weight, maybe, like, up to 10 pounds.

And once I would hit that number, I would feel so, so happy that I would start doing all the things like started adding back all the things that helped me get to where I was, and I would put that way back on, plus more.

And so I was on a yo yo cycle for my entire life.

And then once, once I had children, I realized I don't have time for this yo yo anymore.

I don't want to keep going up and down.

And so I have a background.

I have a degree in molecular and cell biology from UC Berkeley, and then I also have a graduate degree from NYU.

And so I started going into the research that I had access to through this education.

And I started finding that there are foods that we can start adding instead of taking away and restricting, and there's a there is a concept of focusing on metabolism versus restriction.

And so I really was it was really resonating with me, because the dieting just wasn't working, and I didn't have time to do that as well as exercise anymore.

And so I started focusing on increasing my metabolism by adding certain foods and combining them in a way that kept my blood sugar even.

And so amazingly, I lost 40 pounds in nine months, I got to the most fit part of my life.

I'd never been that fit, and it happened so easily just because I started understanding the properties of food.

Now it's been over 15 years, and I've kept that weight off and I've gone I'm going through menopause now, and there is a massive change that happens in our bodies with bloating, and I have figured out how to get that down again.

So I still am at the same place that I was since I lost 40 pounds.

And so that's really, you know, I was, I was working in a full time job when I lost this weight, but everyone around me was asking me, how did I do this?

What did you do?

Please share this with me.

And so I started my blog, masala body.com and started sharing my tips and strategies, and then started coaching women.

And now and then transition from that job to my company, masala body.com and now I've coached over 1600 women in midlife to be at their healthiest weight.

Eric Balcavage: Awesome.

So we're going to kind of get into kind of the strategies and solution piece, but I want to address like right up front, because I know my audience is thinking, Yeah, another weight loss coach.

Weight Loss coaches are all over the internet, and people have had, I'm sure, have tried them and not had the success.

And typically we hear calories in, calories out.

But what do you think is, what do you think people misunderstand regarding the role of the health coach, and what do you think differentiates you from the multitude of other weight loss coaches that are out there?

Nagina Abdullah: Yes, well, I can tell you, I never found anyone that could help me, and I had to create this system all by myself through my own research.

So I agree, there's a lot of there's a lot of really, really uneducated information out there that is, that is really behind the times.

And instead of focusing on restriction and calorie counting and calories in, calories out, our bodies are so much more complex.

And though calories do play a part in losing weight, they are not the number one thing.

There are so many more aspects to it in terms of increasing your metabolism, such as blood sugar balance, such as hormonal balance, and such as thyroid, and make making sure that your thyroid is balanced and is working correctly, since that is our metabolism boosting gland.

And so a lot of people are approaching weight loss from a very simplified perspective of only macronutrients and calories.

And when you hit midlife, it becomes a lot more complicated than that, and that's especially why most people, when they hit their kind of mid 40s, if not earlier, all the things that were that were working before stop working.

And that's because we require a different approach.

Our gut health is changing, especially for women in our 40s, or we're going we're starting perimenopause.

For most women, that means our hormones are declining, and our hormones were protecting us from inflammation, and so all of a sudden we're experiencing massive bloating, usually belly bloating, and we might start blaming it on ourselves, because we don't have the education that our body has actually shifted.

And so now we have more inflammation.

It's also very likely that and most women, when they start perimenopause, increase their insulin resistance.

And what that means is that that when you're eating any food that's breaking down to sugar, so most carbs sugars, then your body's not processing it as efficiently, and you're storing fat more quickly, instead of burning fat.

And this, this isn't anything different that that the person is doing, it's that our bodies are changing.

And so if you keep doing calories in and calories out and restricting yourself, it actually becomes worse, especially in midlife, meaning you will stay stuck at the same weight, even if you're eating hardly any calories, and you will also potentially gain weight because your body doesn't have the nutrients that it needs to excrete toxins and the other particles that are causing inflammation in your gut.

So we really have to change the narrative around what to do in midlife and beyond to get to our healthiest bodies, because calorie counting restricting and not giving your body, the nutrients that it needs, eating less, even intermittent fasting, are things that are actually working against us in so many situations.

And so you know what I what I bring to the table is an educated view and also a massive experience with not only myself, transporting my own transforming my own body, but working with over 1600 women and seeing the daily struggles that they go through, the daily issues, and understanding how to navigate that.

And it's not the same as it was when we were 20 and 30.

Eric Balcavage: Okay, so if this is something that's happening to people, men, women, as they hit middle age, is this, are you thinking, this is the normal process of aging, or is there something else at play that's the underlying the change in physiology in middle age?

Nagina Abdullah: So even, you know, I actually was thinking, oh, you know, I had lost 40 pounds before I went to the menopause stages.

And I was think I was hearing all these things about perimenopause and menopause, and I was thinking, I'm so healthy.

I have my body.

I got, I figured out how to get my body to the sick, to the to the place that I could only have dreamed of.

And then guess what happened?

I hit perimenopause, and all the things I started hearing started happening to me.

I gained 20 pounds.

I had massive bloating in my belly.

I went up two sizes in my pants, and everything I was doing stopped working.

And exercise absolutely did not work for me.

Steps did not work for me.

And so because of this scenario, this, I'm one example of someone that was really healthy, and this, this same thing happened.

And so, you know, my answer is, this is a function of aging.

It's a natural it's a natural function.

It's things that are going to happen to us.

Because, as our hormones are declining, even for men, men's hormone, you know, other hormones are declining, and that's making a difference as well.

But your hormones are declining, and our hormones are protective, and as a result, we have different effects that are happening.

Now, the other thing is, even if so, if you're not healthy, or if you're not as if you're if you think you're healthy, because a lot of women feel like they're healthy, but they're they're really under eating, if you're doing things that are either overeating.

Eating foods that are raising your blood sugar and if you're under eating as well.

Those are two problems that absolutely have to be corrected first and eat no matter if you're having a no matter if it's aging or not you, you those are things that are going to affect everyone because you those are, those are factors of our metabolism as well as our thyroid.

So, so there's some, there's some, there's some basic types of ways of eating that that we do have to implement.

And once you get that down, then you can start addressing the other age specific types of things that start happening, like bloating, etc.

So it's kind of like you have to be healthy, you have to know how to eat.

But aging is going to happen, and so you have to learn a new approach on on how to increase your metabolism.

Eric Balcavage: So I there, there likely is a natural decline in metabolism as we age.

But I don't know if it's just there is a drop in estrogen as especially for women, as they start to progress, that's a natural decline, and that might and the estrogen really supports mitochondrial function.

So if there's low levels of estrogen, you're going to have reduced mitochondrial function.

So your efficiency at at converting food energy into cell energy can go down, but it doesn't happen to everyone.

But I think there's other issues that probably aggravate the situation, and that is, the vast majority of people have low grade inflammatory mechanisms going on low grade and that low grade inflammation creates some level of glucose resistance and drive towards fat storage.

And as we start to compile that inflammatory process, it does change thyroid physiology at the cell level, which impacts your body, your metabolism.

And we're, you're seeing that decline in estrogen.

So between the decline in estrogen the low grade inflammation.

I think it sets the stage for for a lot of people to start gaining weight.

But it's not just age dependent, because we have a large percentage of our population that's overweight or obese, even before they hit there.

I mean, you said, Hey, I was 40 pounds overweight and trying to struggle.

So one of the things we hear in in in healthcare, is that you're unhealthy because you're overweight.

And I would make a different argument, is that you're overweight because you were unhealthy first.

Where do you where do you fall on that?

Nagina Abdullah: Yes, well, so I mean, there, so I don't want to say there's only one way or another, but, but definitely being overweight is a symptom of Not, not, not having a metabolism that is efficient.

And there are a lot of aspects of our metabolism that we can control, and we can control much of it with food.

We don't have to necessarily have medication specific if you are, if you are someone that has hypothyroidism, then definitely you need that medication.

But there's a lot of people that that that may not be at that place, and food is going to correct a lot of those, a lot of those problems.

And so, you know a thing about aging that I you know, that I want to touch on also is that as we're getting older, our muscle mass is decreasing.

So in our 40s, our muscle mass starts to decrease significantly, and that muscle is turning into fat.

And now we all know that muscle is burns more calories than fat, so as our bodies are transforming into more fat, our metabolism is going to decrease, and we're going to start putting on weight because of that.

We're also putting on weight because of the the the change in as the decline in estrogen, which was protecting us from what's called inflammatory cytokines, and now those are being able to be released, which is why there's more bloating that we're experiencing, especially in our bellies, especially for women and so.

So the thing is, these things are changing and but in terms of being being unhealthy, there are some people that have to struggle.

You know, they struggle more because they may have a more severe thyroid condition they have, they have an immune system that is not functioning as efficiently as somebody else, and that makes a difference in fat metabolism as well.

So there's, there's some things that they have to work through and they have to repair so that they can start to lose weight.

So it could be that your body is not like you have, you have you have to improve your gut health.

Gut our gut health is very related to our weight.

And so once you repair that, you will lose weight.

But a lot of times, you're going to see that people that are overweight, they're not eating in the right way.

And if they make these changes simply by eating in the right way, their fat is going to drop, and they are going to start increasing their metabolism completely naturally.

Eric Balcavage: Okay, we're going to get into more of that, but I guess that it that begs a different question, right?

So who's to say what the right way is right?

And what's the right way for different individuals?

Because there are people that eat what they think is a healthy diet, right, the Mediterranean style diet.

They don't lose weight, they eat a vegan diet, which somebody tells them is healthy, and they don't lose weight, they eat a carnivore diet, and maybe don't lose weight, they do a keto diet diet, and maybe they don't lose So we'll get into the context of what what you're thinking is the weight.

right way to eat in a bit, but let's hit a couple other questions, and it kind of ties to this.

Is that even though many people have tried lots of different things and they're still struggling with weight is it weight issues?

It's not always the food, right?

There's other factors that contribute to weight gain.

And you talked about gut health and gut and gut dysbiosis.

What are some of the other factors?

Is it, do you think it's just food?

I don't think you do.

But, and do you think there's other factors that a lot of people have going on.

And you talked about, well, they have a thyroid condition, or they have immune condition, and I would say, I would agree with those things, but then we have to ask the next question, what's causing the thyroid condition?

What's causing the immune activation?

So what do you see is the biggest drivers, and maybe if you think it's only food, to say, I think it's only the food that people eat.

But are there other habits, lifestyle factors that you think contribute to the weight gain at the hypothyroidism, the immune system issues, what are there other things that you think are contributing that most people aren't taking into consideration?

Unknown: Yes, so the first, the first way that I want to respond to your question is to be very clear that food is the main reason.

Food is the main reason there are other things that are very important, that are very important.

And I want to, I don't want to say that there's nothing else.

There are absolutely and I want to, I'm definitely going to talk about those.

But like we're talking about thyroid, our immune our immune system, we can, we can help to support that by eating the right way.

So our thyroid, if for many women that have or many people that have hypothyroidism, there's some, there's a lot of nutrients that that are lacking, and once you supplement yourself with those nutrients, and including eating more carbohydrates that are healthy, which our thyroid needs, then we're going to start to increase that function.

But it's not going to necessarily get to where, you know, get to complete health without medication.

So there is some support that we need, but you can help yourself and support yourself.

Nagina Abdullah: Now, there's a lot of issues that happen in our gut, but it's because we're not giving ourselves enough nutrients, which comes from food.

A lot of times, people feel like they can only take supplements, or they have to only take medication that can help you, that can support you, but you for you have to do that.

You have to get to the root cause and really have a strong foundation, which comes from food.

But let me say I wanted to start with that, but there are many other lifestyle factors that are incredibly important, and one of the top ones is stress.

Now, if somebody is eating correctly, and when I say eating correctly, we're going to talk about what that means, but I really want to want other you know, those of you that are watching and listening to know that that doesn't mean eating healthy foods.

It means eating the types of foods that keep your blood sugar even and eating enough of those foods that increase your metabolism.

So it's not about just like no just being kind of random about what you're eating.

There.

It has to be a structured way of eating and and so even if you're eating in that way, but you don't have enough sleep, or if then, then that's going to cause stress to your body.

That's going to cause your body to hold on to to fat.

It's not going to allow it to burn fat as much.

In addition, if you don't have enough sleep, you're going to have very strong sugar cravings, which also impacts the food piece of it.

So so sleep can impact a stress can create a stress on our body, also emotional stress and just a lot of lifestyle stress that that many people are dealing with, just with so many responsibilities, so many things on our plate, working taking care of kids, sometimes taking care of parents.

You know, all the things that comes with that, without having enough support that stress can help, can literally shut your body down, and especially in midlife and beyond our body as our as our hormones are declining, it's more sensitive to cortisol, so our cortisol increases more quickly, and we really can't handle as much as we could have 10 or 20 years ago, or sometimes even five years ago.

And when we increase our cortisol, which is.

Due to stress, then we, our bodies start to shut down, and we, our bodies are not processing food in the right way.

So, you know, stress sleep, another aspect that that that is, that is a function of stress that many people don't realize is when you're under eating, you're putting your body in a massively stressful situation.

And that's, that's a that's very, very, a very, very likely thing that's happening for many people in midlife, because we've been taught that dieting and eating less is the way for us to lose weight, so we start eating less, but that actually puts our body in that stress mode, and then it starts holding on to fat instead of releasing it, and that's why it's so harmful to eat too little, and we shouldn't be scared of food.

We should just know which foods are nourishing our body.

So, you know, there's stress, there's sleep, you know, I am going to say like walking, exercise, it has a place, but it is not the number one way, and it's not even the top five way to lose weight or to to increase you can.

You can be you can.

You can build muscle, and that will help increase your metabolism.

But you really have to hone in on what you're eating, and you can absolutely lose weight without exercise.

And I say that because I have lost 20 pounds in menopause by only lifting weights, no cardio, and I'm seeing women in their 60s and 70s, lose up to 40 pounds with minimal, minimal exercise.

It's really about changing their diet and increasing their metabolism.

So, you know, there are and then the other factors are things like a PCOS, hormonal issues that if your hormones are not balanced, it's extremely hard, especially if you have estrogen dominance, it's very hard to lose weight, so hormonal changes.

So these are all factors.

And if you have your eating right, but you have estrogen dominance, you're not going to be able to lose weight, so you have to work on that, and you have to work on balancing that out.

So there are these other factors absolutely and you do have to work on each and every one of them, but if you are ready for the biggest bang for your buck, it is by taking a look at what you're eating and increasing your metabolism through natural foods and making sure you're eating enough of those foods.

Eric Balcavage: Okay, so what do you think for the people?

We'll come back to some of this stuff, and we'll talk about it, but you you're keep mentioning the right way to eat.

So let's talk about what your belief is, the right diet, or the right Nutri right intake of food.

And I so we'll kind of talk about what you think, what you think that is, and maybe have a discussion around that first, because people are probably going, What do you mean the right food?

So what's your definition of the right foods to eat?

Nagina Abdullah: Yes, okay, so, so the right, the right foods to eat, I include all of the macronutrient categories, meaning protein, protein, carbs, fat, and then also fiber.

And so all of those are important.

We cannot take any of those out.

If we take any of those out, we're putting our body under stress.

But it's just important to understand how much of those to eat.

And one of the biggest, most important priorities in increasing metabolism is to eat more protein.

I have a mantra that's called protein more, and thinking of protein more at every meal, and what protein does is that it directly increases our metabolism, because it is giving our body the building blocks so that we can build more muscle, even if you're not working out and we and sometimes we're just fighting to maintain our muscle.

And so we need those amino acids to be able to to be able to build our muscle, also to be able to be used in different processes in our body.

And in addition protein, it digests much more slowly.

So when you have the right amount of protein, which I'll go over in a moment, you don't feel as hungry, and your sugar cravings literally start to disappear.

It is so directly related.

And a lot of times when people have sugar cravings.

They think that they have to take out sugar, and that's actually the wrong way.

That's actually that actually doesn't work.

It just makes you want to eat more sugar.

You start obsessing and thinking over sugar, thinking about sugar all the time.

I know because I thought I was just naturally born with with uncontrollable sugar cravings, because I thought about it all the time when I was on those diets.

But what I found is when you start adding protein, that is the answer.

It's an indirect way to get rid of your sugar cravings and have so much control over what you're eating, is by adding enough protein, because it digests more slowly.

It keeps you satiated.

And the reason it increases your metabolism, that's the most powerful, is that it keeps your blood sugar even so if you're eating something that is that has sugar in it, or if you're eating a carbohydrate and you pair it with a protein, that your blood sugar is going to going to it's not going to rise as much.

In fact, it could.

It could rise like 50% up to 50 or 60% less than if you ate that carbohydrate or sugar alone just by pairing it with the protein.

Unknown: And this concept is really important about keeping our blood sugar even because when our blood sugar increases, then our pancreas releases insulin, and insulin goes and takes the sugar out of our blood, and after a number of processes, stores it as fat.

And a lot of that is being fat, stored as fat in our belly.

So if we are keeping our blood sugar balanced, then we're not going through those ups and downs of energy all day, and we're not going through fat storage.

Instead, we're going through fat burning because our our blood sugar is even so protein is the key to keep your blood sugar even.

And talking about amounts, it's important to get you know, a magic number to start with is 30 grams of protein at each meal.

So 30 grams at breakfast, 30 grams at lunch, 30 grams at dinner.

And then even throw in like a protein shake or a Greek yogurt or something else, that will give you a little little bit more and get you at least over 100 100 grams a day.

And that's a starting point.

Once you get there, it's important to increase, and it really depends on your body weight.

So I'm giving a general number here, but if your body weight is, as you know, it increases with with the with the with the more weight that you have.

So I want to cover the other three macronutrients, but I just want to stop there in case you have, yeah.

Eric Balcavage: So there's a lot of controversy around how much protein somebody should intake and but I agree that most people aren't consuming appropriate levels of protein in their diet.

There's some literature that says like point eight to point seven to 1.2 I've seen as far per per kilogram of ideal body weight, and other things that say per pound of ideal body weight.

And I do think it's, it's person dependent, right?

And so when we think about how much you know, I think your starting point of 30 grams is probably not a bad because most people are, are probably under consuming and they're probably not maybe getting that much.

I think when I have patients do their three day dietary intake, most people are just not getting enough protein.

And we'll talk about why a lot of people don't.

But where do you stand on what the appropriate dose is, and are you and how do you justify what that dose is?

Are you looking at just as from a, from a, from just your experience?

Are you looking at clinical literature?

Are you can are you looking at what somebody's metabolism currently is or their state.

How are you what's your range for an individual?

Because it really does need to be individual based.

And, yeah, how do you make the criteria and what do you think that what the optimal number is?

Nagina Abdullah: Yeah, so it's definitely very individual based.

And so you know, when I share, when I teach someone how much protein they should eat, I'm looking at a lot of factors about themselves specifically.

So the numbers I'm sharing right now are a starting point, and they are, they are.

They do apply to pretty much everybody as a starting point.

But the amount that I'm recommending is based on clinical literature, based on research from my from my background, and it is also based on studying over 1600 women myself, and seeing my seeing what is working and what is not working.

And so there's a combination of experience testing, hands on experience, as well as research.

So I really started with the research, and then I saw what worked for me.

That's how I that's how I got started.

I saw, okay, does this work for me?

And it was working.

And then as I started losing more weight, I started seeing that I needed different amounts, and then I needed a different amount to maintain.

And so it depends on where you are in the phase of losing weight as well.

And so then I started testing it with my clients, because I already knew what worked for me.

I already knew what what was recommended from multiple scientific scientific literature and and so I started testing, and I actually have a very specific formula, which is based on someone's weight and what their goal is.

It's also somewhat dependent on their height, but somebody that weighs, say, 130 is going to need less protein than someone's than someone that's 190 and but the thing is, it doesn't go up in a linear way.

A lot of times like the scale.

It changes where, when, say, if you're 190 200 you're not going to need as much protein per pound of body weight as somebody that's 130 so when you're 130 you're going to need to increase, you're going to need to decrease the amount of protein, but you're going to have more protein per pound of body weight.

So that percentage, that ratio changes.

It increases as you lose weight, but the number may decrease.

And so we know the ranges for every person, like for 150 to 155 to 100 you know every single range.

We know what has worked.

And then we start there, and we see, see how our someone's body is responding, and it's not, you know, everyone's body is different, because people are dealing with thyroid issues, with gut issues, with immune system problems, and so they may or may not respond, and if they don't respond, then we realize there's something deeper going on that we need to look at their gut health, that we might need to look at their a one C's, that we definitely need to get their thyroid tests, because then we may need to delve more deeply into the functional health aspect, which is, what are the qualities of the foods that you need, and what exact foods do you need?

Other than just saying you need 30 grams of protein at each meal, we actually need to look at the benefits of the food.

Which food is medicine, so we start adding certain types of foods to help correct those issues.

Eric Balcavage: Okay, and so if we get back to the number, where do you fall in the camp of, are we thinking per we're thinking gram per kilogram, gram per pound, like those are, because these are drastically different numbers, and there's people that argue on both sides, and somebody's listening to this.

But how do I know just 30 or I need to increase it?

But what should they be thinking about for a ballpark?

Do you think it should be closer to the let's just use the number like a gram per kilogram of ideal body weight, or a gram per pound of ideal body weight, like, what's that?

Which?

Number Are you looking at?

Nagina Abdullah: Yeah, I love this question, because you're it's you're getting so specific, and this is literally what people need to know so that they know the amounts.

Otherwise, this information is so general, and we, we're not going to get the benefits from it.

We have to actually get specific.

So, so I like to talk in grams per pound.

I'm not saying one gram per pound, but I want to talk in that, in those, in those metrics, because it's more relatable for a US audience and and so instead of, most people don't even, don't even want to do that conversion, which is fairly straightforward, but so, so it's, it's more in the camp of a little bit less than one gram of protein per per pound of body weight.

So I'm more in the camp of point eight to point nine, grams of protein per pound of body weight, so a little bit less than your weight.

So if you're, you know, if you're like 170 you're going to want to have a little bit less.

You're going to do like, point eight times 170 and and start there, and then maybe increase to point nine as you start losing weight.

So, so it's, it's, but it is, you know, in general, you could just think of it as just a it as just a little bit less than a pound per per a gram per pound.

And that may seem like a lot to some people, you know, even, even somebody that's 140 pounds, they may think that that's a lot because they weren't eating it.

You know, we find that most people, especially women, are eating around 60 to 80 more, like 60 to 70 grams of protein a day, because when you're not conscious of it, and when you're not thinking about, what am I eating for each meal, it's not, it's it's, you have to work to get that much protein.

Doesn't happen by mistake.

Eric Balcavage: Yeah.

And the downside is, if you're not consuming sufficient protein, which is the building that's kind of our building material.

The amino acids provide the building blocks for muscle tissue, cells, hormones, enzymes, everything else.

But that means you're filling the rest of your dietary intake with energy, calories that you may already not be able to utilize or burn, and so that can become an issue.

And so it's important to take a look at those things.

So I want to touch one more thing on this protein piece, because I'm sure people are thinking this too.

Am I thinking, if I'm 180 pound female and my optimal body weight is 140 pounds, which should their protein target be?

Should it be towards?

Do I need a let's just say it's a gram of protein per pound of body weight.

Are they shooting for 180 grams of protein?

Or would you advise them to shoot for more of what their ideal body weight is?

Or somewhere in between?

Nagina Abdullah: Yes.

Love the question.

You really want to do it where you are right now.

So if you're 180 and your goal is 140 you gotta start at your protein that you need at 180 because that's what's going to activate your metabolism.

If you do it at the 140 weight, you're not there yet.

You need to get more you need to get more protein to activate your metabolism, so that your body has what it needs and gets out of survival mode and gets out of being stuck, and then it can start actually burning fat because you're giving it what it needs to to actually to be able to process everything.

And this really goes against things that are very deeply ingrained in our brains, from when we were young in this generation, growing up with diets, with eating less, it feels uncomfortable to eat more, but, you know, I see people all around me.

I saw, you know, recently, my mom came over, and she was, she's in her 70s, and she was eating what she thought was a healthy breakfast, which was two eggs and then some fruit.

And I was like, Mom, you have to eat more.

That's that two eggs is only 12 grams of protein, and you're having some fruit, that fruit that fruit is going to raise your blood sugar a little bit, not too much, at least you have the eggs with it.

And so I recommended that she add on a Greek yogurt with her breakfast, or that she has a cup of egg whites, or half a cup of egg whites, at least, to get it into the 20 to 30 grams, which is a really great way to add that protein to your breakfast, is to do two eggs plus a half a cup or a cup of egg whites.

Or do a Greek yogurt, or you can do a protein smoothie that has either Greek yogurt or protein powder that's at least 25 grams of protein, and then you're having low sugar fruit in that pro in that protein smoothie, as well as maybe some berries, which are going to keep your blood sugar low, maybe some flax seed to increase your fiber.

that, and within a week, she lost three pounds, and then she went on to lose five pounds the next week, simply by adding that additional 20 grams of protein to her breakfast.

And I see this happen all day, every day with my clients, they start adding in more protein, starting with their breakfast, and their weight starts dropping and and so that's why you don't even have to be very specific with it in the beginning in terms of numbers and calculating how much it is.

You don't have to, because you're likely under eating protein anyway.

So if you just bump it up to 30 grams per meal, your body's going to get more of what it needs, and even that change is going to activate your metabolism, and then after a few weeks, you might see a slowdown, and that's when you really should start making sure you're getting enough protein for your current body weight.

And then your body will start losing more fat, and you'll be able to get to your goal with that plus some of the other combinations that that are important.

Eric Balcavage: Okay, and ask you two questions off of that one, what's the theory between be for you, behind the whole egg versus theegg whites?

Nagina Abdullah: Well, the whole egg is important, because the whole egg, first of all, the egg is a source of fat.

We actually need fat in our in our diet.

Fat is going to, you know, it helps us in so many ways.

From an appetite perspective, it keeps you more satiated, and when you're combining fat and protein, you're really being able to control your appetite, you're really feeling satiated.

But of course, egg yolks have so many other nutritional benefits, but they also have cholesterol in them, and if you eat more than two eggs, you're going to get more than your daily value, daily requirements of cholesterol.

So that's why I recommend staying at two eggs per day.

But two eggs per day is amazing, as long as you know you are you like eggs, as long as you want to eat eggs, as long as you can find eggs, given our current climate, and so you know, egg whites, though, are a great source of protein only.

So sometimes you just you you're getting your fat from other places, or maybe you don't like egg yolks.

Egg whites is a great substitute, because it's just straight protein.

It has no carbs, it has no fat.

It's a very easy way to add more protein, and it's also really, really kind of underrated as a like, as a dinner option or a lunch option, that's really fast if you just get, either get liquid egg whites.

I mean, that's the easiest way, so you don't waste so many eggs.

But then, or you could also, you know, crack eggs and just separate them.

But there's liquid egg whites that are really easy, that you could, that you could use.

So it's, actually, you know, a decision on, do I need a lean protein, or do I do I want to have a more of a satiating protein?

And do I actually like eggs?

Because not everybody likes eggs, and not everybody eats eggs either.

Eric Balcavage: I think the egg white controversy was big when we thought that cholesterol was the problem and elevated cholesterol was caused by the cholesterol we eat.

But we know today that only about 25% of the circulating cholesterol actually comes from the cholesterol that we it's in our food.

Most of it is converted from the cells.

And excess of cell energy, not being able to be or sell cell fuel, not being able to convert it in into cell energy and efficient manner, so we can displace that back out into the bloodstream as cholesterol, so we can make hormones, enzymes, neurotransmitters.

So I agree that egg whites provide a way to get more protein in, but I I don't think most people need to shy away from the egg yolk, especially for from a female perspective, because the choline in there is so important for so many functions in the body.

But we can, we can table that.

As far as the calorie piece, we didn't really hit this yet, but I want to make sure we we hit it now.

And then we'll talk about carbs and fats and fiber.

Um.

If somebody is there, the general thought process around calories is that if you are calories in, calories out, you're going to lose weight.

Okay, if somebody's overweight and they're consuming, if they're let's say they're 180 pound person.

We're not even taken into exercise at this point.

They're 180 pound female.

Their ideal body weights 140 pounds.

We'll use the same numbers.

Should they be eating the caloric intake of somebody who's 180 pounds, or should they have the caloric intake overall of somebody's who, who's 140 pounds?

Or should there be it?

Should the number be somewhere in between?

Unknown: Well, they need to eat the amount of First of all, I want to start by clearly saying that it's actually what actually is.

The most important thing is the macronutrient percentage.

So they should be eating the right mix of of protein versus fat versus carbs, and they should be eating the right types of food.

So the functional aspect of foods is extremely important.

And this is where all of this supersedes calories, like you have to get this right first, and then you can address calories, because if you're eating the right amount of calories, but you're eating processed foods, or you're eating foods that are not high in protein, or you're eating carbs that are elevating your blood sugar, it's not going to work.

You have to have all the balance.

You have to have the right types of foods in the right percentages, and so from there, in terms of calories, calories do play a part then, but I look, I've seen them as a secondary, a secondary priority.

First, it's important to get the right kinds of foods, get the right general quantities and combinations of foods, so you're keeping your blood sugar even that is step one.

Someone is going to lose a tremendous amount of weight just by doing those things, without even thinking about calories, without even knowing how many calories are eating and and I've seen this happen 1000s of times, because that's that's how we work with people, is we get out of the calorie conversation and we get into the foods that you're eating, but then after that, you will see a slowdown in your weight until you because you may be eating more or you may be eating less than your body needs to burn fat.

So you really do have to have it in the right range, so that your body's actively burning fat.

And you you absolutely want to eat the right amount of calories for the current weight that you're at.

You can't under eat and eat for your future self, yet you you're going to work.

You're going to work there.

As you keep losing about every six to eight pounds, you could lower your calories and eat a little bit less by a certain amount.

And it depends where you're, where you're starting.

So, so, so, yeah, you really want to focus on eating, eating for where you're at, because you gotta activate your metabolism.

You gotta give your body what it needs.

You have to give it enough.

And also you have to and also you have to give it the right nutrients through the qualities of food that you're eating.

So if you're 180 eating for 140 pound person, then you may it's going to be hard for you to get there.

And also that's you're you're drastically under eating at that point, you'll get there.

Like we'll work there, we'll get there.

So one more thing I just want to add to that is if you go too quickly and eat too little like you don't have to do that, because your body responds to changes.

It's not absolute.

So your body's going to respond to you either lowering your unhealthy food to intake and or increasing your your metabolism, boosting food intake and and once you once it responds to those changes, then you can optimize it, but you don't have to.

You don't want to go too low too quickly, because then you're going to like, your metabolism is going to get slower before you reach your goal weight.

You want to ensure you want to keep your metabolism high.

As you're losing weight, and if you're eating too little food, your metabolism will slow down.

Eric Balcavage: Yeah, the argument would be, especially with the thyroid crowd, would would be that their metabolism is slow already, and so eating 100 and calories for an 180 person, 180 pound person, when they already have sluggish and slow metabolism, they're inefficient at burning fat as a fuel, and they really process 108 calories of 180 pound person because they're not in a healthy metabolic state at that point.

So eating calories for 180 pound person, it sounds good, but for a lot of people may already, may go, Look, I've, I've, I'm there, and I'm not doing that, and it's still not causing me to lose weight.

I'm in the right protein ratios.

I look at I look at patients food logs every day, especially the people that are really engaged in their health, and they're really on track.

They're eating a whole food based diet.

They're eating appropriate levels of protein, carbs, fats, and for some of those people, they're in the right calorie range.

They.

Have appropriate macros, you're still not losing weight.

There's other immune inflammatory mechanisms going on.

But I do think this is where we have to have some consideration for somebody and say, Look, where are you.

And I think we both agree with that, where are you with what you're consuming and where you're at?

You may not have the metabolism to do it, you may be way under calories, and that's contributing to the excessive stress on your physiology, but if you're eating the calories of 180 pound person who's got inflammation and slow metabolism, you still may not be able to lose weight effectively.

I see that on a regular basis too, so I think there's, it's got to be somewhere in between, and there's a lot of factors in here, like, what's your activity level, what are the other factors that are contributing?

What's your metabolism?

What's your conversion of t4 to t3 so there's so much in here, but big picture thinking, I agree with you.

Most people need to have a higher level of protein.

And so we'll circle back to this, to this calories point.

Because it's it is hard, and it is people try, are trying to figure out where they need to be, and it's nice to say we got to get the macros right, but the the number of calories we're trying to get in helps us determine, to some degree, what those with the macro percentages are.

So if we're saying that we're at we've got to increase the protein, and we need to have the macros in the right range, if it's based on their pounds of body weight, then how are you determining what the carb percentage is or the fat percentage is, which are both energy calories that they're not efficient at burning in the first place?

Nagina Abdullah: Yeah, so can I address kind of what you were saying also about being that metabolism isn't high, you know, a lot of times based on thyroid, which it absolutely is true that your metabolism isn't as high, especially if you have, if you have thyroid issues.

I mean, I personally have hypothyroidism and Hashimotos and so I have directly had to go, you know, understand how it was slowing my metabolism.

So, but the thing is, when you eat so, so what I've seen is that when you eat the these foods in the in the right proportions, and you're really activating your you start activating your metabolism with more protein and by keeping your blood sugar even by eating the right kinds of carbs, eating the right balance of fats and also increasing your fiber.

That's also really important in terms of how to keep your blood sugar even so you actually get your metabolism going with food.

And then if you're if your body's not responding, we have to actually take ourselves out of the conversation of macros and calories, and we have to get into a functional food, a functional a functional discussion about there's something lacking in in that person's body.

And this happened to me.

I was lacking so many things, and my body just wasn't burning fat, and I didn't know it.

I felt fine.

But then once I started getting the right blood test as well, like very, very specific blood tests, I started seeing where I was lacking, and I started adding certain foods that had qualities to it, like I never really ate potatoes or sweet potatoes that much.

And then I started seeing all the benefits from adding potatoes that they had so many nutrients that my gut and my thyroid were responding to.

And so I actually have seen that if somebody's not burning fat there, you could try to cut their calories, that could be away, but I've also seen that doesn't work in so many situations, and it's very surprising, but you actually have to increase their calories and give them specific foods, because those foods have benefits to them that are going to get their metabolism going.

And so it's a bigger conversation and macros and calories, it's the qualities of the food you're eating and the nutrients that you're lacking that you can get from food.

And I have seen so many women's bloating decrease massively by eating more of of these like like foods that reduce swelling, foods that reduce inflammation, and they're eating more calories, but yet that they needed more of that quality from the food so, so, so that just a different because as I started going through menopause, I started realizing that there was a lot of nutrients that are lacking and changing, and my gut health was changing, and the calorie conversation was just not happening, just not working.

I had to, I had to feed myself up, and then feed my clients up, get my metabolism going, and then my body was repaired, and then I could start reducing calories again.

So kind of a different it could be a different journey.

Eric Balcavage: Okay, so let me we'll, maybe we'll get there in a different direction.

So what should people be eating by your metrics?

And then, once we know what they should be eating, then you can help us understand what you think, the where they should fall with their macros.

How's that?

Nagina Abdullah: Yeah, okay, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

So we talked about protein as a key area.

Now the second, the second piece, this is my, the second most important part of you know, I have this fat.

Of this framework called the tested and perfected fat burning food framework.

And it's the foods that I'm talking about.

It's important that we combine them in the right ways.

So the second one that's very important, you really want to have 40 to 50% of your plate be veggies, but I call it tasty veggies.

So the reason that's important, first of all, we need vegetables, but we all know we need vegetables.

This is something that we're hearing everywhere we are.

Everywhere.

We obviously know that, but it's important to make them tasty, because the reason many people aren't eating veggies are because we they don't like the taste.

Over time, as you start eating vegetables, you're going to your gut biome turns over, and your gut starts craving vegetables, just like right now, if you're craving sugar, it's likely because you're feeding your body sugar, even if it's not in the form of sweets.

There's foods that you're eating that are breaking down to sugar, and sugar once you want gets want, gets you to want more sugar.

Well, once you start adding more veggies to your diet, you start craving vegetables.

Like, I love eating vegetables.

I can't eat one meal without vegetables, like I go for that first, and I never used to do that before.

So the the reason veggies are so important is because they have so many nutrients, so many minerals that are replenishing our body, really helping our metabolism stabilize and increase in many cases, and also it has a very high source of fiber without requiring a lot of calories, and so we can eat, we can really fill ourselves up.

What fiber does is it keeps you more full.

So when you have about 40 to 50% of your plate with protein, and then 40 to 50% of your plate with vegetables, you're getting protein and fiber, and that is really digesting very slowly and keeping you full for many, many more hours than if you were eating other kinds of foods that were lower in protein, lower in fiber, and especially higher in in only carbs.

So those tasty veggies are really key and and just to give you a few ideas of how to make your veggies tasty, I always recommend using metabolism boosting spices, things like cumin, which has been proven to decrease belly fat, coriander, which has been proven to de bloat or decrease water retention, because that's what it does.

You'll actually notice if you put coriander on your veggies, you'll have to go the bathroom soon after, and you even if you didn't drink water.

And so it works very well.

And then also turmeric, which is anti inflammatory and helps reduce puffiness and swelling.

But also all of these are none of these spices are spicy.

They're all mild, and all you do is you sprinkle them onto your veggies.

If you want to put a little olive oil, you can, but you don't even have to.

And you could roast it in the oven.

You could saute it on the on a skillet, and make enough for three or four days so you just have those veggies cooked.

So veggies are very important, is another major area, then healthy carbs.

So healthy carbs are also important, because we need carbs, especially for our thyroid.

And I really found this out I had personally been on a low carb diet, and I found out after I after I figured out that I had hypothyroidism, which my doctor never diagnosed, I had to really understand it myself, because they kept saying it wasn't hot, my my TSH wasn't high enough, and they didn't even ask for my t3 or my t4 tests.

So I had to actively go and get those tests.

And it was blatantly obvious that I was that I had hypothyroidism, but they never would have diagnosed me.

And so I started reading, reading about that, and seeing the one of the key things are our thyroid needs is carbs, and are, it's feeding, you know, it is.

There's so many important reasons to have carbs, and when you deprive your body of carbs, it's affecting our thyroid.

And so the thing that's important about carbs, and that, well, that is scary about carbs is that it elevates our blood sugar so we can make you gain weight, and that's why I talk about healthy carbs.

And what healthy carbs are, are fibrous, complex carbs, so they also have a very high amount of fiber, and they're not going to elevate your blood sugar as much.

In fact, sometimes they barely elevate it at all, and you especially when you're combining it with those veggies and that protein on your plate.

So healthy carbs, examples are things like beans, lentils.

You could have Ezekiel bread.

You could have another high fiber bread, or even sourdough or rye can work sweet potatoes, potatoes, especially if they're cooked and then cooled, which creates a resistant starch.

So it doesn't it doesn't activate your blood sugar as quickly at all.

And then also what I call slimming grains, which are alternatives to Rice, because rice will increase your blood sugar unless you cook it and cool it, then it also has that resistant starch.

But things like millet, buckwheat, farro, couscous, quinoa, those are all better options that that have more fiber in it and that aren't going to elevate your blood sugar.

And so this is a really important way to get this into your diet.

And for for carbs, what I recommend is is, you know, I said 40 to 50% on the on the protein and on the.

Veggies, but for carbs, it's more like 20% to 25% of your plate, maybe one to once to twice a day, and and so then you're still getting a good serving of it, but you're not, you're combining it, so it's not increasing your blood sugar.

And the actual carbs themselves are healthy.

And they're, they're, they have a lot of fiber, so they that's why I call them slimming carbs.

They're actually going to help you burn fat by having those carbs.

And then the final category is fats and healthy fats, which we absolutely need for so many reasons.

And one of the biggest reasons that we need fats and health healthy fats means that there's more omega threes, and omega threes are going to help us reduce inflammation and reduce swelling.

And with most of the fats that are in our foods are Omega sixes, and a lot of times we have an imbalance of the types of omegas that we have.

And so when we have too many Omega sixes and too little omega threes, that that's a lot of times what is causing inflammation and swelling, we're not having the right amount of omega threes, and so really increasing that is important.

And you know, the way to do that is eating foods like salmon, which is high in omega threes, avocado.

You know, making sure you just have healthy fats in general is also important, because it satiates you.

It's important for brain health, for skin and just keep you satiated as well.

So you know fatty meats, like chicken thighs, beef, that's lean, is great.

Eating nuts, peanut butter, almond butter.

But for fats, what I recommend, it's the one area where I really recommend that you look to limit how much you're eating, and all the other areas I've been saying actually eat more of most of the things, carbs, you just want to have the right amount, but fats are very dense in calories, and if you mistakenly eat even one, one tablespoon more, that's like 200 calories more, and it could quickly become 400 calories more.

With peanut butter, for example, two tablespoons is 200 calories, and you may not realize that you're eating four six tablespoons, if you're just get taking it out of the peanut butter jar, which sometimes we do.

And before you know it, you know you've gotten 400 extra calories for the day, which is absolutely going to put you into a place of not being able to lose weight.

And so you know also, avocados.

Having a half an avocado is really good.

So what I recommend is having one serving of fat, which is 14 grams of fat three times a day, so fat three times a day.

And the best way I have seen that this works is to have it at breakfast, because then you're satiated, and then to have it at dinner, because it helps you sleep well, and it helps your blood sugar stay even.

And then you can have one snack, like a small apple and peanut butter or something like that.

So you put all those, you know, macronutrients together your meals are mainly protein, veggies, and then either a healthy carb or a healthy fat, and then you add in a snack of a healthy fat.

And it's great if you can get in one extra protein a day.

And that is the formula for fat loss.

And the second layer on that is to look at the amounts and make it coincide with with where you're at to get your metabolism higher.

And the third element is looking at the benefits of the food that you're eating if you need to get get even deeper in terms of healing yourself.

Eric Balcavage: Okay, so I think we got to where we wanted to get to.

You're saying from there's really not, you're not really breaking this down.

I don't think too much from a percentage thing, but you've just got some general guidelines, initially, starting with 30 grams of protein, three times per day, plus a little bit extra, potentially 14 grams of fat, about three times a day.

And you're, you're keep, you're talking about eating carbohydrates from plants and from plants like bees, lentils, things like that, and keeping that number somewhere around what grams, percentage

Nagina Abdullah: that number is gonna, I mean, that number could be it really, that number can go up and down depending but, I mean, that's more, you know, when you start losing weight, just because it's important to keep your blood sugar lower, that percentage could be like 25% of your calories, and then you could increase it as you're losing weight, as you're getting into maintenance mode, because you do need, you don't want to live at a low carb in a low carb way, it's, it's, it could be very unhealthy, like for our actual immune systems in our bodies, but starting at 25% and really, you know, over the course of the day, like 25% of your calories could be, could be from carbs.

Eric Balcavage: Okay, so we're talking somewhere 40, 50% of your percent of your percent is protein, about 25% is carbohydrates, and about 25 to 35% fats is that, yeah,

Nagina Abdullah: Right, 35% fats.

35% fats is really good to start with, and that's really important.

Because, you know, one of the second, one of the the main reason that I see that people are not losing weight, especially in midlife, is they're eating too little and the second, the second reason is they're mistakenly eating too much fat.

Because fat, they're trying to be healthy by eating nuts, by eating avocados.

They're really take they're really studying what to eat.

That's healthy.

But fat has is very calorically dense, and it does put you much, much over what your body needs in order to actually lose weight.

So that 35% is a really good place where you're not deprived.

You're very satiated, and you are getting, you're not going, you're not getting too many, too many of your calories from fat, which you need enough from protein to feel more full so.

Eric Balcavage: So the important part here for the person who's sitting and listening to this is that, hey, I need to have some kind of reference, if I'm just trying, if I'm overweight, I'm struggling with health issues.

I've got immune inflammatory issues, I've got thyroid issues, I got adrenal issues, I got sex hormone hormone issues.

We need to give them some type of a guideline as to where they need to start.

So we're based on your suggestions they're eating.

They could do a calculator for their height, their weight, their age and their and you We didn't even get into activity level, but there's calculators for activity level.

And you're initially saying, hey, initially eat for your current body weight in a 50, 50% protein, 25% healthy carbohydrates.

This is whole food based carbohydrates, and then, and then healthy fats, right?

Nagina Abdullah: Yeah.

And I'd say more like 40% protein.

Yeah, 40% protein.

Eric Balcavage: Okay, so then if we're at 40% protein, then we're at 35 and 25 for carbs and proteins.

Okay, so that gives everybody the framework as maybe a starting point.

If you're already doing that, then there's immune inflammatory issues that you're probably going to need some additional assistance from.

If you're increasing your protein intake and you don't tolerate it well, it's potentially because you already have immune inflammatory issues.

If you have thyroid issues, your stomach acids already down regulated.

Your gut pancreatic output is already down regulated.

Your bioflow is probably down regulated, and that's going to impact digestion.

One of the best things to do for the average person who's got gut issues, and if you've got weight issues you have, you likely have gut based issues going on.

A good systemic or a good digestive enzyme is going to be a huge benefit, because you're just not making appropriate acids and enzymes, and that can really help you as you start to try and increase your your protein intake, because you probably just don't have the digestive capacity.

Some people, I want to touch base on two things you said.

One of that is the fiber.

Why is the fibers so important?

And you talked about it from it helps with burning fat.

The big driver when you when you start making the dietary changes, is the change in your gut flora, and when you do what you feed you, you feed your gut flora.

So if you feed you a bunch of Burger King, you're going to probably be inflamed and have problems, and you're going to grow different bacteria in your gut, which is going to have different physiology than maybe a healthy gut biome.

When you feed lots of when you have a lot of fiber coming in that you can tolerate, and it's not always good.

Some people go, I tried to do the fiber I don't tolerate.

Well, I get gassy.

I get bloated.

Okay, eat more fiber.

That's not necessarily the answer.

You've got bacteria that's taking that fiber and it's fermenting that fiber, and it's creating some challenge, so that there's some there may be some work that needs there, but the gene is, I generally agree with the kind of where she's at from a new macro standpoint, but those short, the fiber that you eat provides bulk for the bow and she covered that it pulls fluid into the bowel to help with bowel movement and motility, it produces short chain fatty acids that are critical to maintaining the tight junctions, to regulate your T regulatory cells, to calm the immune system down and do a whole bunch of other things.

So what you're really trying to do here is not just feed you, but Feed and Grow the type of bacteria in your gut and your GI tract that's going to be healthy and versus less pro inflammatory and and less healthy.

So that's the big goal of potentially trying to get into these ranges.

If we start talking about you, um, if somebody's doing this, they're eating this way, they're still struggling to lose weight.

Where do you go from there?

What are the suggestions that you typically give them?

Because there's a lot of women that are already eating that.

Way and saying, I'm already doing it.

It ain't working.

Unknown: Yep, yeah.

And I mean, thanks for doing that deep dive on fiber, because fiber is an incredibly important part of a healthy gut biome, and to be able to have sustainable weight loss, that's healthy.

It's also pushing food out of your of your intestines, so it's allowing you to excrete a lot of foods and also a lot of toxins in your body and and so like a high a high fiber diet, we think the 25 grams is something that we're supposed to you know that that that is the metric.

25 grams is starting point we should really, I have seen that women that are able to get more like 30 to 40 actually, is, is really going to change so much for them.

But if you're, if you're somebody that is having issues with adding fiber, that means you have something going on with your gut health, and we have to get in deeper, and we have to work on your gut, and once we do, you'll be able to actually eat more fiber.

There's that's a symptom that I've seen for for inflammation and for gut problems is that when, when, when people cannot digest fiber, especially from flax seeds or other kinds of foods, it's a it's a clear symptom that they are, that they that they need to work on their gut, and then they're going to be able to lose more weight, they'll be able to increase their metabolism, their whole body is going to start functioning much better, as well as like constipation, other types of things are symptoms of gut health.

Nagina Abdullah: So, so, yeah, so, okay, so, so in terms of, of, like, what to do, so if you're doing all these things, so first thing is, I talk to women every day who tell me, I'm already healthy.

I'm healthy, I think I'm already doing these things.

And then once they actually we start to work closer, closer together, and I'm guiding them on the actual amounts that they're eating.

They were never eating those amounts.

So So most people who think that they're being healthy, and they think that they're following it, they're not actually connecting the dots in the right way.

That you might be eating these foods, but you're not eating enough of them, and you're not combining them in a way to keep your blood sugar even you're not doing like protein and veggies, plus a healthy carb or a healthy fat, you're not getting enough protein, you may be eating too much fat.

This is a big thing that I see, so it's important to know and to be open to saying, okay, there could be a gap in the amounts and in the combinations that I'm eating, because there are extremely healthy, very educated women that I'm talking to on a regular basis, and once I actually start showing them what that means for breakfast, lunch, dinner and snack, they start losing weight by increasing their metabolism.

So let's talk about if someone is following all the amounts, and if someone is following the food combinations, and like they're being supervised by me, for example, and they're still not losing weight, which I have seen, that means, usually, that there is some, some big, some massive inflammation going on.

There's some gut health issues.

There's very likely some thyroid issues as well.

And there's also, when we're talking about gut health, a lot of it is related to our liver, because our liver is, is needs, our liver is responsible for us to excrete toxins, for us to excrete hormones, for us to excrete food, and if our liver isn't performed well, as well as t3 to t4 to t3 and so the a lot of the conversion is happening in our liver.

And so if our liver is not working openly and efficiently, that's blocking a lot of processes and and so that is a big thing that's happening in in our gut health, is in that we can work on improving and so when women are not losing weight, then we start looking at giving them additional foods that are known to improve your liver.

Certain teas, like dandelion tea, start even potatoes are helpful for thyroid and for opening up our gut health and our liver, really adding those foods and sometimes requiring additional supplements if needed, just to work through this.

And so, so, so that is where we have to go.

We have to start addressing those things.

And a lot of times what we have to do.

And this is the situation where I have seen the only thing that works is what I call feeding them up.

So giving them more nutrients, like higher doses of food specific, like of foods that are specific in the nutrients that are important for our gut health and and and nourishing their body, replenishing their body.

And so sometimes somebody that should be eating, say, like 14 or 1500 calories, maybe eating 2200 calories, which sounds like so much to certain to some people, but they're eating it in the form of the types of foods that are that are beneficial, like olive oils, which are which reduce swelling, potatoes, sweet potatoes, ucchini, eating clean proteins, like white fish, or like salmon, or like like Turkey, that's ground so that our gut isn't actually having to process and and be as it isn't working as as hard.

It's not under as much duress while we're repairing it.

And so we actually feed them up, and that that replenishes their nutrients, it increases.

Increases their metabolism because they have the nutrients that they need.

And once we're there, they actually, they're actually losing weight that whole time.

Like at 20, if someone's 15, supposed to be 1500 calories, or even 1300 calories, and they go up to 22 it doesn't even matter about the And one of the techniques that I do is I talked previously about how intermittent fasting does not work anymore.

Well, this is,

Eric Balcavage: So for the listener, I think this is like, calories.

At that point, they are getting the nutrients that they need, and they're losing weight.

there's one situation where where it does work, and that's when you're feeding your body really, really up with all these nutrients, and then you introduce two intermittent fasting days a week.

And this is this just wipes out so much inflammation, and it releases so much bloating through that process of autophagy, where your body is just cleansing, all the dead cells are being released because of diet variation.

You're eating a lot for five days, and then two days you're eating less, and you're also fasting for like 14 to 16 hours everybody's got different opinions on here.

I've had other or so.

And then through that process, so much inflammation is released, and so that's what I have, a system called the Bloat bust, where we feed people up that aren't responding to the typical fat burning food framework, and we feed them up, and then introduce those intermittent fasting days, and they lose so much weight, they repair their gut, and then After around maybe like eight weeks of that, they can, they can go back to eating normal foods, and their bodies replenished, and they have a health, much healthier metabolism, and they're able to lose weight at normal calories.

And so it's guests on here that have talked kind of like going against what we what, what you know, what I grew up knowing, because it's really looking at the functional properties of foods and the gaps in our gut health, replenishing that, giving your body that time and then, and then cutting calories, because if you cut calories too fast, your body can't handle it, if you have a weak metabolism, and if you don't have the right nutrients, and if your liver is not excreting the right toxins in the right way, if you're not converting t4 to t3 you have to get that going, and then you can start cutting calories again.

But you don't even have to cut it that much.

You just start bringing it down a bit and balancing out in those ways that I was sharing before.

So I think it can work.

The interesting thing about the autophagy, and you may have done some more research to show this, but I had the some of the people from Prolon on the podcast, and they're talking about autophagy doesn't start until you're three days into a fasted state, and it doesn't occur.

I don't know if that's correct or not, and but I do.

I I do think we just have to consider the each individual and what's going on.

So I don't know if true.

Autophagy doesn't start for 70 for three days.

I don't know if that's the case, but their whole structure is built on that.

But they also have a product they're selling.

They now they do have some it looks like good research to back up some of their thoughts and feelings on it.

But I don't know this is a controversial topic, I would say for the individual who's listening to this, should I do intermittent fasting?

Should I do not do intermittent fasting?

I think if you're on your own, I don't think you should.

It's something you should do chronically, periodically, a couple days in a week, if, if you're doing it.

But keep in mind that you can't be 500 calorie deficit because you're doing intermittent fasting every day of the week.

That is going to potentially create some issues from a nutrient deficiency challenge, even if you have gut issues.

And I think correct me if I'm wrong, Nagina, I think your feeding up strategy is moral, and I could be totally wrong.

So you tell me, if I've got this wrong, you're feeding up strategy.

Part of that is you're saying.

There's nutrient deficiencies here, potentially micronutrient deficiencies.

So my goal is I'm going to feed them up with nutrient dense food, so even though they're not absorbing things or they've got malabsorption issues, because almost everybody who's got a when we do testing, we say, You got magnesium deficiency, you've got b9, be six, be whatever deficiency.

They either have a diet problem, consumption problem, like what they're eating isn't healthy and it's nutrient to void, or they've got a digestive problem, an absorption issue, right?

And just because we put more micronutrients into the system doesn't always mean they're going to do what we want them to.

That all depends on the state of the individual.

But my my take in what you said is we're going to up feed them so we have a greater ability to get more nutrients into the system, to potentially sort support deficiencies, versus maybe load them with excessive amounts, super physiologic doses of individual micronutrients as supplementation.

Is that part of your thinking, or am I

Nagina Abdullah: Well, the reason so, the reason that foods are so effective is because, if someone is deficient in micronutrients, there's a lot of other micronutrients in foods that are not even tested, like we don't even know what they are exactly, and so when you're giving food, there's so many more benefits than having a supplement that has that only that one, that one nutrient that may be also helpful in addition, that may be helpful in addition, supplements can absolutely help and especially with absorption issues.

So sometimes we need to to combine feeding someone up with some additional supplements, digestive enzymes, also, if they're not breaking down protein enough, giving them easier foods to break down, for example, for example, essential amino acids, which is a really great thing for people as they age, because we all start, start, we're all not able to break down protein as well.

So when you have an essential amino acid, you just put that into your water, and so you get direct amino acids, and versus having to break it down.

And so, yes, there are some, you know, the absorption piece is, is key.

But I have also seen that really, really adding, adding in the just adding in nutrients in the right form, in the right amounts, it starts.

I mean, you do need to add absorption supplements if that's a problem, but for many people, just adding in the additional nutrients really changes the game.

It really changes the game and through food.

So and one thing about intermittent fasting, I just wanted to say is that intermittent fasting can work.

It is a tool.

I don't think it's a lifestyle, so it's a tool, like it works in example I talked about, and it absolutely works in the example you were sharing, which is when people are eating too many calories, or it could work, you know, or they're eating that they need a boundary to stop eating in their day, and that that helps them, but after a while, it's going to stop working, because your your body has to, like you have to make sure that you're eating enough, and a lot of times, when you're intermittent fasting, you end up eating too little calories.

For many people, for some people who are eating unhealthy foods, processed foods, you know they're on, they're still in that, in that lifestyle, it's definitely going to help restrict their calories.

But if you're a healthy person and you're eating mainly real, natural foods, intermittent fasting can help for a little bit, because it's a diet variation, anything that's different, our body's going to respond to for a little bit, and then it's going to plateau.

So we have to just understand, you know, it could be a tool.

I look at it as a tool.

I look at keto as a tool, but I don't look at it as a lifestyle.

A lifestyle, to me, is eating eating protein, eating veggies, 40 to 50% of your plate, eating carbs and fats, one or the other during each of your meals.

That's a lifestyle, but sometimes you need to introduce these tools to accelerate fat loss and to also heal your gut and heal your body.

Eric Balcavage: Yeah, I would agree with that part.

I mean, I've, I've had a lot of people on here touting their different dietary style.

We fight about it all the time.

The vegans are fighting the vegetarians.

The vegetarians are fighting the carnivores.

Carnivores are fighting the Ketos.

They're all my personal belief that a more of a Mediterranean style diet is probably a great place to live and the kind of what we talked about.

But if you want to change somebody's gut biome rapidly and change their and potentially change their immune inflammatory process, absolutely do 180 degree change in their diet, and things are going to change, yeah, but they may not be able to be there.

This is what happens.

Somebody does like a they're eating a standard American diet, which is terribly unhealthy, and then they go to a vegetarian diet, and they go, Oh my gosh, I lost weight.

I felt better.

I'm going to be a vegetarian or vegan for the rest of my life.

But they're not a great vegetarian or vegan.

They're back to a standard American vegan diet or vegetarian diet, and it still becomes a pro inflammatory and some of the sickest people I see in my practice are people who.

Are have been long term vegetarians or vegans, and when you look at what they're taking in, it's like, but you're not, you're you're a carburean, you're a processed food carburean.

And yes, it's got the ilk of a of plant based, I guess that to some degree, but that's not really food.

That veggie burger may not actually be just vegetables.

There's a whole bunch of other things in there that may not be super healthy for you, but these things can change, which is why you'll hear somebody tout about the ketogenic diet and say, hey, they made a lifestyle.

It was huge difference for me.

Or somebody goes carnivore.

I agree with you that these are all tools, and that's what we all have to keep in mind.

If your current diet, even if it's the diet that we were kind of discussing here, isn't working for you, and you're chronically unhealthy, and you're not working with a practitioner, if you change your diet, you're probably going to see some change, good or bad, because you're going to change your gut biome.

You're going to change your physiology a bit.

Is it where you should be long term?

Probably not.

I mean, if, if you did, there was a fad for a while where people were drinking, what celery juice, right?

Everybody's doing the celery juice diet.

I think it was celery I forget what it was.

Something along those lines, where they're just drinking just celery juice all day, and they're seeing massive changes.

Of course, you did.

You changed your gut biome.

You got rid of a lot of processed food.

You're you're creating deficiencies in what you're consuming because of what you're consuming, and it's going to create a change.

Can people live on celery juice for the rest of their life?

Probably not, and be healthy.

Okay, so.

But, yeah, we can use it as a tool.

We're kind of getting to the end.

I only got through about half of my questions, unfortunately, because we kept diving into different topics.

But I want to respect your time.

If we want to have another discussion, we can.

We can do that again, but if somebody's interested in what you do and wants to learn more about you.

Where can they go?

And can you explain what, what kind of offer that you have for people when they come for help with their weight?

Nagina Abdullah: Yes, absolutely.

Well, this has been so so wonderful.

We've talked through so many things.

I can't believe you only got through half the questions, because I feel like we got into such great depth here, which is the which is why your your podcast is so amazing.

It's like we really get into such a depth.

This is not just high level conversation, and you really created that.

So thank you so much.

Unknown: I so I have, you know, I offer really, a really, really informative and valuable free calls with me, which are called Connect calls, just so that I can get to know those of you that are watching or listening that might be wondering, okay, what is the next step for me?

I'm trying to do everything I'm already healthy.

Things are just not working, but I feel like I'm following all the right things.

I have these calls that are free and they're for people that are already healthy that you're just frustrated about what else to do because you're following all the rules.

You're listening to all of these podcasts, but yet your body's not responding.

Well, let me tell you, your body can respond.

You just have to make a few switches, a little few tweaks.

So I'd like to offer a free connect call with me.

What you do is you just go to masala body.com, forward slash apply, and there'll be a place for you to set up a time, and there's a quick survey afterwards that I'll afterwards that'll help give me more information so I can make sure the call is valuable to you.

And I would absolutely love to do that.

Nagina Abdullah: second I have a live event that is coming up called the five day metabolism boost for midlife women, and this is where I'm going to be live every day for five days, and I actually add on four bonus days, and I'm teaching all about things like your metabolism boosting morning routine, exactly how to eat in your morning, exactly the the areas that the ingredients to add so that you can balance your blood sugar, get your metabolism going.

I talk about the fat burning food framework, giving you specific examples.

I talk about how to get off sugar without feeling tired or restricted, and show you food combinations so you can still eat your favorite foods without elevating your blood sugar.

And I also give you a free workbook that is so comprehensive that really works through all the things that may be blocking you from your weight loss and exactly what to add.

And so if that's something that you would love to attend, I would love for to have you there, and that is at masala body.com, forward slash boost.

And then I'm also going to be sharing a free sweet spice cheat sheet in the in the notes, which is a cheat sheet that will tell you that one spice that is sweet to add that lowers your blood sugar and helps you get off of sugar.

It helps really quench your sugar cravings.

And includes a fire, a fat burning fire, tea that helps to burn belly fat, and it's especially great at night before you go to bed.

So check those things out in the notes.

And I would absolutely love to talk to those of you that decide to connect with me, and I hope to see many of you at the metabolism boost.

Awesome.

Thanks for coming on the thyroid Answers podcast.

Thank you for having me.