No that you can sell people on this.

Someone will be like I always knew Christians all loved guns and just wanted to see Jesus Christ for two hours.

Under the dogs.

Yeah, under the dogs.

Very would write your looks funny?

Could they arise the.

Shots like the dogs, under the docks, under the ducks, Yeah, under the docks, under the dogs.

His the season to kiss people off like this is under the Dogs.

I'm Sean Chris heroin American.

This is where we watched the film and tell you if you should check it out.

I don't think this should piss anyone off.

I mean, if you do, then it's just a test of faith.

But you're supposed to have your faith tested, right, it comes out stronger the other end.

We're going to the film The God Who Wasn't There?

Two thousand and five film directed by Brian Fleming and narrated by Brian Fleming.

This film explores if Jesus existed, is if other films that we've talked about like Zeitgeist, where like he just has the same qualities of other gods and other religion pagan religions and to the name that we've seen through time, similar to Horus and other gods that people praise to did Jesus really exist?

I don't know.

I mean, this guy seems to feel very strongly that no, that Jesus didn't exist.

And this one, I think I've mentioned this documentary at least twice, one when we did The Pagan Christ and then again when we were doing Zeitgeist, because Zeitgeist kind of goes into this angle for the first third and then it breaks.

Wayne does something else, and Breakswayne does something else again.

So if you're interested in someone else's deep dive into whether or not Christ was a historical, literal human being or if he's this amalgamation of previous stories and people.

That's kind of the entire premise of this in this full documentary, along with being one part like the actual writer director, is kind of personal journey from being a fundamentalist Christian to I don't even know what he claims to be at the end, but I had a guess.

I'd say agnostic slash atheist, but I don't know that for a fact.

Plotting the course, this one had a lot, This was fun.

A lot of the claims and I'm gonna go out right out the gate.

One of the claims I found that I did not.

I've never heard this claim in any of the films that we watched.

Maybe I missed it, but it was due to me that none of the Gospels of Mark, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John were written until seventy AD, about forty like thirty seven years whatever after Jesus's death, and the way that it's portrayed is that these were written, like, you know, immediately after, like you know, kind of this a memoir of like, hey, this is what happened, this is the journey we all had together.

And they make this claim that not only was it written then, but that's when it was distributed, and that's when the argument comes to play of like where's the government of that time using it as like, hey, fu, listen to Jesus, bro He's real, like you know what I mean, I mean, like being like this authority figure of God on earth that was able to like kind of move people into control.

It's a good hook line because that's basically how this documentary starts off.

Before I mean, before it starts getting into the facts.

He does a really good job of playing on emotion and just.

Sort of surface level belief.

So he does these men on the Street interviews, which I'm starting to realize is like one of my favorite formats because I just love that reality aspect of it.

But he's going up to people and just asking them about, Hey, have you ever heard of Osiris?

You ever heard of Dionysius?

Have you ever heard of all these different gods?

And the response is he's getting that are just like, no, bro, I got to worry about is Jesus?

Like Jesus is all you got to pay attention to, and you know someone's done all the other hard work for us.

Jesus is here, and he's making these these open ended questions.

And one of the questions he's like, look at how happy Christians are when they talk about Jesus.

How Come I'm not that happy?

Like I want to be this happy?

And this is how it kind of opens up.

And then he goes immediately into the story of Jesus, and like you just mentioned, the biggest hook line is Okay, here's this really important dude, and it's for thousands of years people have been worshiping him.

We've got all these writings, we've got canonical texts and people that claim that he was real.

How come no one mentioned him while he was alive from year zero to thirty three.

When he dies, there's no mention in, no writings of him, No modern day like historical writings that came from that period.

The only started around seventy, like you mentioned, and the only bridge between the year zero in year seventy is Paul, and Paul writes about him around thirty three again after death.

But Paul's writings never mention Ethelhem or Mary and Joseph for the manger birth, or like any of.

The light, like any of the whole, like crucifixion.

Yeah, he doesn't, he doesn't know.

He mentions a crucifixion, but not like the Roman like none of the politics.

So the point that this documentary starts out is if Jesus was historical and he was this important, he was, you know, creating miracles and everyone knew about him, how come no one writes about him for two generations after he's dead, and then those have contradictions in him.

And I guess that was the first nugget that started the writer on his sort of journey on trying to look deeper into this.

Another claim that uh, I'm going to go off with this one is that they this is more of like a big chunk of it.

He basically claims that Christians are fundamentally violent, right, Like he's like he goes through this whole list of like like, hey, like Christians love violence from the beginning of time.

Like his list is like from the starts with the passion of the Christ and join how bloody it was, and like the gore and like emphasizes on like at one scene where he's hammering in the nail the blood drops.

He's like Mail Gibson would have had to have like an injecting blood things.

You know, he doesn't mention it, but yeah, you have to have a squib off camera that like shoots of course, bro, it's it.

Was a phenomenal movie.

What do you want?

Yeahs He harps on that for a minute, like it really it really triggered him.

It sounds like when you hit it, like he goes off, and then he talks about the Spanish Inquisition and then just kind of like spitballs from there.

Because again, this is a two thousand and five film, so you got to imagine, uh.

You know nine to eleven.

Happened already where deep in our rack, you know, kind of in the Middle East and have our hold and there's that stigma going around where we're all like anti government, but most of the anti government and anti war people are a little bit more left leaning.

Now times are a little bit different.

I know, crazy right, that used to be anti war and stuff, and I think that you could see it all through that lens.

So he goes through that same lens of like every Republican and Christian Republican wants to kill all these people so they can start and bring on the rapture.

I mean, he goes as far as like doing an interview with I forgot the guy's name.

He's like, yeah, I have a website.

It's called the Rapture Letters dot Com.

I actually went to it.

Spoiler alert, I don't think it's available anymore.

I went to it and it just said we're revamping or whatever.

And this Rapture Letters dot Com was people like kind of like just like love letters to like, hey, you know, I love Jesus and we want like cheering on the rapture.

And then he focused on that neocon.

Evangelist Christian group that has been pushing like, ah, we want the end of days.

We want the end of days it got to be in Jerusalem blown up.

I think that part of this documentary is you see some daddy issues coming out and they take the form of you.

He goes back and he interviews the old dean of his school, like the old vice principal or something of his high school that he went to that was a fundamentalist Christian school.

So I think that a large part of this movie is him also coming to terms with I hated my high school and I hated how they taught me about religion, and chances are the high school was probably run by right wing conservatives.

So now he's like, and I'm going to make sure that some of this splashes off onto right wing and conservatives too.

So he goes down this very deep tunnel of God's not real and Republicans just want to kill you, and the raptures silly, and Christians love violence, and I think that he kind of misses that it's kind of humans that love violence.

And also his metric was to take three different movies about Christ.

One of them was Passion of the Christ, which he calls the Bloody Jesus or the Smashing of the Christ.

Because he does this big super cut of every single time that Jesus gets hit in that movie, like literally every single time.

Index he just plays in the background.

He's he's showing all this other stuff.

He has one called the Singing Jesus, which is Jesus Christ Superstar, and then one called Sexy Jesus, which is the last Temptation of Christ that had Willem Dafoe in it.

And he mentions that Jesus Singing Jesus made fifty five million box office, Horny Jesus made thirty three million, and that Bloody Jesus made three hundred and seventy million.

Therefore, Christians are more like Bloody Jesus than the other two.

And I mean that doesn't really pass my muster of like filling out a metric.

All it means is that people in general like violence more than they like musicals and more than they like Bible stories.

So when when the reviews start coming out and it's like, what is this just you know, another VeggieTales style Christian comedy or something like now broes Jesus is getting tortured for about two hours, people are like, Okay, I understand that, I'll go and see that, and I feel that it's just it's more about humans and not necessarily about Christians particular.

But at this moment, you can you are well aware that the point of this documentary is the sort of paining Christians in a certain way and not He specifies later on that he was raised fundamentalist Christian, but throughout the course of the movie he doesn't necessarily always add that fundamentalist prefix.

He just says Christian in general, and he says it enough that he just might not even realize that he's yelling at like a very specific stone on the wall, but it looks like he's saying, take the entire wall down.

And to your point, Kill Bill Volume one and volume two came around out around the same time, I think two thousand and three, two thousand and four.

The first one made one hundred and eighty million and the second one made one.

Hundred and fifty two million.

Are we to believe that everybody that went to Kill Bill was just a Christian?

There are like no other.

People that had any other faith or didn't believe in God.

They didn't go see Kill Bill.

No, like you said, Gore sells, but he tries to inf size it to where he's trying it's a hip piece.

Right, it's a personal him going at other people.

Another claim that he likes to make is that which this where we kind of get back into the whole Zeitgeist again, right where he's saying like, hey, like what you read is just a bunch of regurgitated old pagan rituals, right, Horace is Jesus.

They go through the same list of like Horace Mithra all these hercules and these myths, and they try to boil down of like they tell the stories, and then there's I forgot the guy's name, but he's like a historian and he bases off.

He kind of dedicates the film to him at the end, and he's like, how many facts, like you know, like match each other, and like I forgot who the top one was like twenty three, and like hercules that in comparison had like thirteen or fourteen.

And then they're Jesus, how much did he have nineteen?

Like where it matched up?

You know?

Born in a Manger like kind of the same thing with Zeitgeist.

And I want to say that I almost feel like Zeitgeist was birth from this, Like I feel like the guy watched this and he was like, yeah, this guy's absolutely right, you know what I mean when he's making zeitgeis because there's a lot of the same information and they kind of just go to try to prove.

And one of the things they try to disprove is another historian is like, there's no way that a group of Roman Jews Jewish powers would go meet on the night the eve of Passover to rule of like, hey, we need to take out Jesus.

And so they argue that, and to me is of a faulty argument.

You're arguing about a movie and like some written Bible which we know has been rewritten tons of times, right like, and they're going like, hey, look at this movie scene, and you're like, well, you can't base everything on a movie, man, Like you know what I mean.

Like it's different.

I know that people have that faith, and he's just like going hammering home that they would never do that.

Whether that be or true, like or not.

They could have brought a little bit more facts about it, but I do think they killed it with a lot of the comparisons.

But we've seen before, and unfortunately for this film.

I saw Zeitgeist first, so as Zech even though this film was before, I'm still going to remember Zeitgeist.

And I think I saw this before Zeitgeist back in the day, so some of it was kind of new, and Zeitgeist goes into way more depth.

I think they're more specific about the claims.

They give you a lot of visuals and stuff.

This one has interviews with actual researchers that were making this.

The focus of their entire study was looking into all these alternatives of Christ and the pagan counterparts, and I think they make just as good of a case for some of that.

I guess this is the one part where people maybe get upset is over my Jesus was real and historical.

But they make a really strong case in this particular documentary that the historical Jesus, the one that people were talking about in you know, the centuries after all these stories came out, that they universally understood this to be allegorical, and that no one believed that this was a real person, just because the stories were so close to all these other gods that they were still familiar with.

So it was almost a point of like, oh, yeah, your guy celebrates Christmas.

Our guy celebrates Christmas.

You do gifts under a tree, We do gifts under the tree.

Call them whatever you want, like sure he's invited, and that that was kind of the original idea, and that over two thousand years that this has completely shifted and made like a political aspect out of it, and not just the Christians love war and all this.

But he also pulls up one website in particular, and it shows these Christian soldiers that what it says on the site, and they're holding like AR fifteen's and it's you know, it's got like all this very heavy militant stuff on it.

But he that and then he kind of just implies like and this is what Christians are.

And it's like, wait a minute, I know some pretty left leaning Christians it would see that website and be like, who are these crazy idiots?

You know?

Who are these flyover like right right wing nut jobs that we don't associate with.

So he does he does a very good job of painting all Christians as a certain way, like in his own regard, like if this were a.

Debate, you know that you can sell people on this.

Someone will be like, oh, I always knew Christians all loved guns and just wanted to see Jesus cry for two hours.

So they can kind of lean into that.

But again, this came across as someone who had just started challenging his own faith and he kind of feels like he's got a bone to pick with.

The world now, and you get a little bit of that.

But I love the passion.

I actually really like his passion about this particular topic.

And my last point really was a claim that they make is where they're talking about how when they confront Christians and say, hey, look man, well look how it all matches up, like the same with Horace, same birthdays, same like you know in the Manger, Look how matches these hieroglyphs.

And they're like, well, yeah.

That's because the devil went back in time and he started fighting like twenty five hundred years before Jesus.

You know, he changed the narrative.

And like they even have a quote in it where it says, for when they say that Dinysius arose again and not evident that the devil has intimate the prophecy.

So they basically claim and I'm not.

Saying, like you know, I think they they go through a couple of preachers and stuff, like.

I haven't heard anybody say that, but I mean it does make sense.

Like so instead of like when, yeah, maybe there is something different, maybe you know, like let's explore this together.

He kind of goes more to the avenue.

They're like denial completely of like the devil got a time machine and he went back and he was like, I'm killing baby Jesus.

Yes, why isn't that what he does right now?

Instead he just goes and plants all these false stories.

There's also I'm not even gonna repeat the joke because I always butcher retelling jokes.

But Bill Hicks has got a standard routine where he's talking about you go up to the pearly gates and they're like, oh, you live the great life.

You know, you're about to go in.

He's like get in there, guy, wait, hold on a second.

What's this about you believing in dinosaurs?

And he's like get out of here, and you just go straight to how and he's like, oh, they felt so plausible.

And he was talking about.

That the Devil's sitting there like digging up dinosaur bones and like putting them back in the ground like this this will get them, this will show them, you know what I mean.

And that is a fairly conventional explanation that shows up not just to explain away these pagan gods that on record, you know, pre date Christ by thousands of years.

But also when the Spanish explorers came to the Americas and they were finding all these meso American rituals where they were doing blood sacrifices to fertility gods and all of these things, They're like, I thought, we're a thousand years and four thousand miles removed from this, and somehow it keeps popping up.

So one of the explanations is just up, Satan must have been here, just like Satan was here in you know, in Phoenicia and Carthage.

Well, Satan must have showed up in Mexico at some point with his same dirty little tricks.

So it is an explanation that I've heard before about why why are there all these correlations between like different pagan rituals all across the world, at these consistent themes.

Hidden treasure and overboard moments.

I want to hear what you're hidden treasure, because I feel like that you got some nice gems.

The one hidden treasure I think is the most compelling case that he makes.

It's not the one about no one wrote about Jesus in his lifetime, just because I've heard that one before.

This one dates back hundreds of years.

This has been a claim since forever.

One of the things that he makes a really good point is that as he's showing all these angry Christians, and there's some that are talking about condemning gay people, and there's others that he's condemning people that aren't following the word of Christ like letter by letter, and he makes us claim that the Inquisition wasn't the exception, it was the rule, that the Inquisition wasn't religion going haywire, that it was an expression of the true philosophy behind Christianity in some ways.

And the way that he kind of underlines that is he says, imagine that you kill your own son for the greater good of your city.

It just will make it small, right, but the greater good of your city.

You kill your own son, and you're a god to them.

But everyone in that city doesn't even acknowledge that you even made the greatest sacrifice you ever could have sacrificed, and no one's willing to acknowledge it, and they're still worshiping you.

They're still like Sean chris Man, you're such a god.

Bro, you're the goat, and you're like, yo, I just killed my own kid for you guys, And you're not even gonna like mention that.

You're not gonna be like, hey, thank you for you know, kicking us one by the way, like wiping us free of sin and all that.

So he's making this argument that yes, that God is gonna be mad at you if you do not acknowledge and accept Jesus Christ as your personal savior, because otherwise, what did he make this huge sacrifice for.

And he also makes a point of this unforgivable sin, which we'll get into in the overboard moments, because I think he takes this one to like an emotional place the tail end of him making some of these good points, which he does not repeat when he goes to talk to his old principle.

But for me that was sort of a treasure moment because I've kind of wanted to go back and talk to like old principles or O teachers and be like, how come you here filling our heads while all this crap right, And he actually does that, but it doesn't go as well as I think it could have or should have.

So this one starts off and Hidden Treasure and then it like tapers into Overboard.

Yeah, My Hidden Treasure was Like I like how the film was presented, Like if I were to watch this before Zeitgeist, I think it would have like opened my mind into like a lot more them dolving into like because in two thousand and five a lot of this was controversial, right, like to be like, dude, he's challenging the church bro, Like what is he?

Yeah, big time?

Yeah, two thousand and five, this movie would have hit completely different than in twenty twenty five.

Definitely, right like twenty years later you're like, ah yeah, everybody's like, ah man, we're doing crazier things in that.

I think to me, the Overboard moment was you've been like alluding to it, like this whole episode there's a lot of condescending, like this is a personal vendetta film.

Like I'm not saying there's not good information in it, but he's like, I'm going like he feels manipulated, whether it's by his parents, by and he says like he goes to this scene where he's like after the his principal or whatever from the school, He's like, you.

Know, the principal was like, oh, well, this is not what we discussed.

We were going to talk about, and I'd like to talk to you off camera right And he's like, why don't talk to me right here?

Why?

So like he's made it seem like he was there on false pretenses.

But he goes into the church it's like the end and he's like, this is where, like, you know, I gave myself to the Lord.

And he's like for the first time, and the second time, the third time, and I'm like, dude, it sounds like you had a trup like and then it made me go, oh, this is why you made this film.

You're pissed off at I don't know name X, whether it's or some multiple people, and you feel like, I'm gonna take it out on them by I'm going to rip out like what they love the most, which is religion in Jesus, and now I'm gonna shit all over it and make you feel like, crap.

Yeah, I'm gonna condemn myself to hell for eternity just to make a prove a point against you.

That's kind of him going into this and that's pretty much my overboard moment, is that the very end of this movie he goes into this chapel where he was going to school, and like you said that, I can see right in that pew right over there on the right, that's where I first gave myself to Jesus, and then again back there and then for the third time over there.

Like, bro, you're only here for four years, Well you're just giving yourself to Jesus once a year, Like, at least do it once and stick to the plan.

But he's mentioned that, and then he turns back around and the last thing he says, he's like, I deny the Holy Spirit credits role, right, so, and it was it was so silly to me that this was a little bit of a juvenile like take that mom, Like I hate you, mom, you know, and then he like storms out the room.

You can almost hear him slam the door behind him after he says this, and he's like done recording.

But I think that this is also just based on a really weird, superficial understanding of what he considers to be the unforgivable sin, which is denial of the Holy Spirit.

And the way that he's presenting this is that if you just straight up say I deny the Holy Spirit in like in words, that is, you denying the Holy Spirit just saying it out loud.

And I mean, this is a much deeper theological topic than how he's kind of presenting it, Like is even possible to deny the Holy Spirit even if you don't even know what the hell the Holy Spirit is.

So it was just a.

Really good example of how he oversimplifies one particular understanding that he gets and then applies it across the board.

Instead of like, let me go and talk to some Gnostics, let me go and talk to some Orthodox, let me go and talk to Protestant's, Baptists, Pennons, you know, like all these different groups, he just keeps going back to Fundamentalist Christianity, which I do think is maybe a minority.

Actually I don't even know the stats on that, but I would assume it's a minority compared to all the other denominations out there.

So if you start talking about Jesuits, for example, like Jesuits and Catholics, might you might get more nuanced.

That he was looking for.

So dude is just angry at fundamentalist Christianity in his own childhood more than the story of Christ, I guess.

But he expresses it in an entertaining way.

You know what time it is, sink or swim.

I'm learning about myself that I like biased documentaries.

I got to give this one a swim, even though it has so many problems with it and it's so biased and it's so shortsighted.

Like he was even getting me ramped up a little bit.

He was even like reinvigorating either me being like that's not right, you know, that's bs the way that you're thinking about that.

But he's making these like very compelling argumentative points, and I figure that this moved the needle for me more than say a completely unbiased documentary.

About Antarctica or something.

This one actually made me feel like I was watching something that was getting my.

Blood pressure up.

I give it a sink.

It's not a bad film.

There is some really good especially the first half.

I'll say, like the first half it really kind of like draws you in.

I don't mind like the you know, parallels with the movie and stuff.

I just started like and again, this is where I'm learning about myself as critiquing a film, like where sometimes I think like the bias for me is a negative, like where like it makes me too mad where I'm like, this stupid idiot, like go talk to more people, you know what I mean, Like have more like discussions of where you can have like, hey, here's this a thought with b thought and he's like, no, like he it's a little bit of gotcha at times.

And like he even goes to the point of where the guy that does the rapture letters.

Come and he's like, I like him.

He's a nice guy.

I used to be that, you know what I mean.

Like I just felt like so it was so arrogant and kind of sun like I was such an idiot back then.

I was an MPC sheet.

I was dumb, Like this guy.

Look at how dumb this guy is.

I used to be that dumb.

Yeah, So, like I feel sorry for him.

I feel pity.

So I didn't.

I didn't really like some of those aspects of it.

I would still suggest this film even though I'm giving to sink.

I don't think it's terrible.

But like on our rating system where it's like you get one one, a couple floats a year man, Right, So I was leaning it on the float, but it got a sink, but you know, it barely sunk.

It was a decent film, but he just gets a little too out in the weeds for me at times.

I wonder if if your score would be any different if you saw this before Zeitgeist.

On the horizon.

What have we got up next?

Well, we're coming up on New Year's.

So I found an old y two K documentary called time Bomb y two K that's sort of a recap of what happened in New Year's nineteen ninety nine in the years leading up to it.

So maybe that one.

Yeah, we actually made it out live.

Surprisingly, the War of nineteen ninety nine that most people don't have, the technological war of nineteen ninety nine that people don't know about.

Well, this is under the docks.

Don't forget to go to paranorth American dot com, Kill themockingbirds dot com support support, share share, this is under the docks.

Piece under the doux.

Yeah, under the ducks.

There it looks fun.

The shots the dos under the ducks.

One of the dogs.

Yeah, money of the dogs.

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