I expected kind of like an old school, almost like a radio station cabin, I don't know, cool, you got a desk with some microphones on it and then that's it.

It's like that, and then, yeah, that's pretty much what I expected.

That's cool Okay.

But yeah, this is cool.

You guys got a nice spacious studio.

Yeah, but yeah, this is cool is that you guys got a nice, nice spacious, yeah, studio, uh, yeah, something I wanted to describe to you that I wanted to save to the end, because I was kind of painted a picture for you, right, uh, or at least I tried to, with the things that are in the room, and there is a huge banner that's behind you, okay, okay, and it's about 11 foot by 11 foot.

It's pretty large, and it has a geometric pattern in the back it's like circles, okay, and it has a large text at the top and large text at the bottom called respecting perspectives, okay, and then there is my logo that is in the middle here.

What is your?

logo.

Yeah, so my logo is a diamond, okay, and at the bottom there is it's three colors it's a dark blue, it's a light blue and it's a what they call hippie green.

So it's kind of like a frog green, okay, like a lighter green, kind of right in the middle, like a Kelly green, okay, and then there at the very bottom there is on each corner of the diamond there is a different geometric pattern that is totally different from the other one and it's a lot of like repetition within small shapes and patterns and the logo.

Those are the four corners, and then in the middle is a teepee that is set up that kind of looks like an A, okay, for AWOL.

That's where the A comes from.

And there are two rivers next to the teepee, one on the left, one on the right, okay, and the rivers are green and the teepee is light blue, and underneath the teepee there's another smaller diamond that has what are roots.

So it basically shows the kind of connection with like life on earth itself, like what earth is right.

And then you have the teepee, which is like your tribe, your community, you know, um, and then next to you you have the water, kind of the waters that flow, okay, up and down here.

Yeah, yeah, and yeah, it's like a vinyl.

And then above that is some stars and coming from the teepee is smoke, a little strand strand of smoke.

What does that signify?

That signifies the things that we have to do on this earth and in order to, you know, make it to the next life and even, like on planet earth, like to make it to another planet.

And at the very top of the logo there is Saturn, which has a bunch of rings around it and, yeah, it's very detailed.

The Saturn at the top is very detailed and the roots at the very bottom are very detailed.

Okay, and it's um, yeah, man gosh, we worked on this thing.

I'm so proud of this logo.

Yeah, it started out something totally different, you know, but through like persistence and direction, I was able to talk to the graphic designers and say this is what I want, paint some pictures for them, help them, walk them through it, and after like four or five revisions, we were able to make it.

Yeah, man.

So thanks for being here, dude, yeah of course, I really appreciate you taking the time out of your schedule and the time to really just get to know me a little bit and for me to get to know you.

Yeah, and I met this young man at Interfusion Festival.

Okay are we starting already.

You know what?

uh all right, because it kind of sounds like you're starting already.

I'm like hold on a second.

Drum roll, all right.

So I have what I would consider a creative in all aspects of life, a musician, a coach of many sorts in the organizational development field Okay, what that spans right, and overall his help and let's see here position in working with the low vision population and, yeah, helping them.

So I have Mr Alex here.

How here?

How you doing with me?

I'm doing great, I'm doing great.

How about you?

uh, it's good to be here having some of this delicious coconut water that you got for me.

Amazing stuff, dude, does wonders, it's absolutely um and then just kind of ready to have our conversation.

Yeah, um, nice dude, I let me.

I want to thank you for for being here.

I know, uh, we had a few talks before this.

Yeah, you know, and we kind of I really just wanted to get to know you and ask you questions and really get to develop a relationship with you.

You know, I like to let people know.

You know how I met you, and it was Interfusion, sure, yeah.

Do you want to tell that story?

Yeah, I think we should start with that, because that's kind of how that's a good way to kind of segue into what we have for after that.

To kind of segue into what we have for after that.

I met this gentleman at Interfusion and he really represented something at that time and I saw Alex walk in the door with his walking stick and I don't know if we've said this yet I said you worked with the blind, but alex is blind.

And he walked in with his walking stick and I immediately, you know, just like, wanted to help him uh, at you know at some capacity, and then I realized like he was good, like he walked in, you know, found where the drum was and just started playing it and, um, yeah, I went immediately, went over to to speak with him and, uh, he was extremely inspiring and it was a really cool moment to really just you know, just kind of like process what was going on at the time, and you really were a beacon of hope for me at that time.

I appreciate that yeah.

Thank you.

Yeah, it was.

It was a good meeting.

I hope that I wasn't dismissive or I didn't come off that way no, not at all open and and and wanting to basically say hi, because do people know what interfusion is?

yeah, good question, right let's, let's break that down, yeah, yeah.

So interfusion would you?

Why don't you tell them what it is?

I'll tell them what it is for me.

Interfusion for me is it's a very big community event and you can go there and do anything within reason.

So a lot of people go for the dancing, because there's a lot of dancing.

A lot of people go for the meditation, for acro yoga, for self, you know, working on yourself, type of workshop, self help, self help, um, and, and I'll I'll say this, someone described the outfits of a couple and it was like the man was wearing a belly shirt and shorts, but not true shorts free falling, yeah, free falling.

And then the lady had like sparklies in her hair.

I just knocked this over.

No, you're good.

Sparklies in her hair, like beautiful gray hair.

So like when I say it's open, it's.

It's like, yeah, anything, anything, you could go there and wear a tail and horns if you want, and then you'll be all right.

Yeah.

Love that, love that.

Yeah, I would totally agree, and we're actually going to have Steph on after you and we'll mention Interfusion there too, because she's a big role in that.

But yeah, man, why don't you tell everybody you know, tell the respecting perspectives guests here, give them a little bit about, like your childhood, kind of where you grew up, and um yeah, give a few details.

Maybe if you throw a few stories in there and, uh, kind of let people know you know who you were as a kid okay.

So as a kid I was a bad boy.

I don't mean like like man heart, like a wrestler bad boy like I was like mischievous, a very mischievous kid, um, I don't know what that was about, but it was it.

It's like I remember one story when my cousin asked me if I wanted water and I said yeah, and he went and got a glass and then thought twice and came back with a plastic cup.

So I don't know what he thought I was going to do with that.

But I was a bad kid.

I grew up with low vision, so I always had low vision, okay, um.

And then later on, uh, I lost more vision and I started using the white cane, um, but initially it was just.

It was just a little rebellious, smart ass talking child, um, you know um, would you wait a second?

would you compare it to like dennis the menace?

I don't know if I I think I would.

Yeah, I'm familiar with dennis the menace, I think like dennis.

So I'll tell you a story.

Um, all right.

So so I love stories.

One one day I'm about four, three or four years old.

I'm living in the dominican republic.

We live in a very unique place.

Dominican republic was where christopher columbus landed first, right, um, okay, and the sp, the Spaniards, build this wall, kind of where I lived.

So I grew up.

My back wall was this 500-year-old wall that was built, and that's how I grew up.

And so, I don't know, I'm standing at the park that's also on the same block.

It's old, it's got cannons or whatever, and we're looking at.

There's something going on.

I don't remember what it was, I just remember there was this lady and she pushes me out of the way to get a better view.

So, yeah, remember, I'm like three or four.

So I tap Excuse me, excuse me.

You know like I'm standing there.

And she's like no, you weren't.

I'm like yes, I was, I was standing there.

You pushed me out of the way, and then she was like how dare you?

And so you know again talking about how, what kind of a kid I was.

All right, you wait there.

She's like what are you gonna do?

I'm gonna go get my uncle.

Oh shoot, no, that's where the story goes bad, because uncle root, he just started hitting on her.

Oh no, but the point is that I was not a kid, that would stay quiet yeah, yeah as a child and then that's still rebellious against the grain.

Against the grain um, not in the box.

Yeah, so always kind of been that way, gotcha.

Gotcha.

Yeah, why don't you?

Where did you?

What area did you grow up in?

I grew up as an early childhood was in Dominican Republic, in the capital, in Santo Domingo, and then, when I was about four years old because I remember I had issues with my vision always and then what kept happening was that my mom had a basically find ways to fund trips to the united states so that I could have surgery, um, and finally one day she was like, okay, I'm gonna just, I'm just gonna stay, this is too much.

And so she switched careers.

She went from a uh, excuse me, uh a career where she wanted to have like a medical lab gotcha, and then she started basically all over in the states and then, instead of owning a lab, she was like working at a lab yeah, gotcha for like a hospital or like a school, just a private doctor, just a private doctor yeah, um, and so, yeah, and so I moved to new york city.

Um, what part of new york, this city?

Okay, like, I'm one of those people.

I moved to new york city and people like you ask them like where, where from, and they're like westchester and you're not from new york.

Stop it, stop it, stop it, uh.

But no, the city like literally manhattan, like the first school I went to was in the bronx, nice, um, I remember, because at lunchtime and and this is, you know, kind of going off a little bit sometimes we would have they would just rush us inside like the cafeteria, okay, and I never thought anything of it.

And then I realized as I got older, oh, there were shootings, they were getting us inside because of the shooting.

This was like the Emergency kind of route, yeah, like late 80s, early 90s.

So New York City was a little different.

Yeah, gotcha.

Yeah.

Do you remember that?

Is that a memory that you kind of?

have.

Not a bad, only the only.

The only thing I remember about that is um, you know how it kind of felt to be a non-english speaker with low vision, okay, in in in the bronx with a group of kids that may not have been necessarily the group of kids that I would have grown up with, um, it was just a a mix, gotcha mix different colors, different nationalities.

You know, I came from a dominican republic, yeah, different colors, but basically everyone's dominican gotcha republic.

You know, good point okay.

So that's cool.

You were able to mingle with, with different, um, different kinds of people, yes, and I think that's, um, yeah, that's it's great for your, your, your own background, because then it just helps you understand different ways of life you know, it makes everything not such a big deal yeah, yeah, it's just whatever.

Great, great point, great point.

Um, let's see here, why don't we?

Uh, you, you talked about early signs of when you were, you know, experiencing low vision.

So how old were you when you kind of experienced those?

I was born with low vision.

Yeah, low vision itself.

I was born with low vision itself.

Got you.

So all through school.

But you know the thing is, when you're a kid you don't know what low vision is, you don't have any yeah thing to compare to.

So you know, and I would go when I remember being tested for glasses and somebody maybe it was my grandma, that that would that changed the language around there's like, oh, do things look bigger with these glasses?

And and I thought, oh bet, vision, better vision means bigger, right, so then do they, do you look bigger?

And I was like, yeah, that looks bigger.

And then that was my how I would judge things.

And then one day I remember, uh, there was a choice between, you know, when they do that number number one number two number.

They do that.

Number number one, number two, number one.

Oh shoot, sorry, you're good.

Um and so, and I remember going oh, that looks clearer but smaller, it looks fuzzy but bigger.

Which one is the better one?

I don't remember which one I chose, okay, but I remember that, thought that like, yeah, I hadn't really understood what clear vision was.

And just to add one more thing, I didn't understand what clearer vision was until I was like 14.

So I go to the bronx zoo and I don't know if you, if you have ever you know those binoculars that you can get at the zoo, like, yeah, okay the ones that you put a quarter in.

they're stationary.

No, no, no, no, you walk up to them, not those Ones that you can have or you can just buy they're like 17 bucks, okay and then you just take them around the zoo and what they look like is two lenses.

Okay, so I'm going to make the shape Yep, basically like this like a set of real binoculars.

It's just like two lenses.

So what you can do is you can look through one lens, you can move that lens and then you can look through the other lens.

And so I saw that if I look through one of the lenses, I saw really clear for the first time and I was like what is going?

on and what were you looking at?

Do you remember what you were looking at?

I was looking at, I think, elk or moose Okay, it was the Africa portion of the zoo.

So it was like looking at the savanna and I remember being amazed like wait, what's going on.

And I think that was the first time that I saw clear things, because before that it was either bigger or the small glasses which were clearer.

But smaller.

So smaller and clear, or bigger and unclear.

Right, and so I always chose bigger, because that's what I thought better vision was the reason why you thought.

that is because you said your aunt, she said bigger instead of better.

Yeah, I think my grandma said like, instead of saying oh, is this better?

And I couldn't figure it out.

She was like okay, well, is it bigger?

And I was like okay, yeah, it's bigger.

Isn't that wild?

Yeah, that just shows you how such a small influence can actually really carry something very, very large.

And I want to.

Is it okay if I give you one more?

Oh, something, and very very large and I want to.

Is it okay if?

I give you one more, just, oh, definitely, just because you know some people might be listening I don't, you know, I don't know.

And yeah, and sometimes you ask kids things and the kids don't know.

And I just I want to highlight this by saying, okay, so I grew up playing the piano, nice, and reading music.

And I remember always struggling to read music and I was like I don't, you know, and I'm sitting there with my piano teacher, mr Fieldman, and he would be like, okay, what's this?

And I remember, like getting close and looking and reading on that's a chord.

Okay, so that was more than 20 years ago.

Oh, wow, okay, okay, so that was more than 20 years ago.

Oh, wow, okay, okay.

Now, maybe when I was I don't know 24, 25, I'm sitting there and I'm imagining chords in my mind and I'm like, okay, I know the shape of that chord, I know the shape of that chord, I know these notes.

How come I can't read music?

Huh, can you guess why I couldn't read music?

Because it was harder to see the notes.

It was hard to see, yeah, and I didn't understand that.

And so I grew up thinking I was bad at reading music.

When it was just, when it was just I couldn't see it.

Man, dude, gosh.

So what did you?

How did that influence your piano playing as you got older?

I just got interested in chords, yeah, and listening playing by ear.

There's a way to read music with Braille.

However, from what I hear, it's complicated and I'm not such a good Braille reader like I can teach you the code.

But in terms of like, am I gonna sit there and read a classical piece and perform it like no man?

That's yeah, I'm not gonna do that yeah, seems extensive.

I'm sure there's there's some people out there who have, who have that absolutely, like you know, if, if that's their background, but yeah, I could see what you're saying.

Yeah, um braille, when did you get?

How did you?

How old were you when you learned it?

man, I was about, I think, the first time, maybe 24, okay, 24, so up to and then we're gonna, we're gonna, I think we're gonna touch on this until I went to this place called Louisiana center for the blind.

Um, I was almost 30.

Um, I kept losing vision and having to restart, like go back and learn how to do things over, and then, and it kept doing that and doing that, and then one day, um, you know, I'm around blind people for the first time, because I didn't grow up around blind people.

I just, you know, I just grew up like a New York City kid, yeah, doing stupid things.

Yeah.

Right, and I'm around this girl and they all use a cane, right, these blind people, they're all using canes.

For the first time, I'm around blind people and I remember that we were going to a festival and I knew that we were.

I wanted to go, she wanted to go she was my girlfriend at the time and she never talked about it like we were going together, right, and that's weird, right, because if, andrew, if you know I'm going somewhere and you're going somewhere, at some point you're going to be like all right, well, you know either we'll meet up there, yeah, or something, right, but it was never that.

And so when I finally asked was like you know, I noticed you never talk about like you haven't it was a saint generos festival, by the way.

It's like how come you never say that we're going together?

And she's like why I don't want to go with you?

And I was like, hmm, how come?

Well, and uh, and my cane is under here, I don't know the cameras can pick it up, right?

yeah, yeah, um and uh, and she was like, well, you don't use a cane.

And I'm thinking, bitch, I see better than you, um, and but she was like, no, you don't use a cane.

I was like what do you mean?

She's like, well, you're always like getting lost and we always have to find you.

Now, uh, one misconception that people have is like that blind people.

Because the way by people walk with a cane, uh-huh, we bump things with the cane and the impression that the public gets is that, oh, they're lost and they're bumbling around.

Yeah, what's actually happening is we're just making contact with objects to either get a mental map or get direction or just know what that is.

Or how else would you know that there's a trash can in front of you if your cane doesn't hit it?

Yeah, so you're not gonna avoid the trash can.

I mean, if I know it's there, I'll avoid it, but if I don't know it's there and I I feel like there's an object there, I'm gonna hit it because I want to know what it is.

Yeah, yeah, um, and so, yeah, and so I didn't use a cane.

I was always getting lost, and then finally I said, okay, I need to take on this blindness, still Blindness thing.

And then you know it was a hard thing to do and it starts with a white cane and for some people it doesn't start.

You asked about Braille.

You know, do a little Braille, just enough to, and I'm telling the story out of order.

The Braille happened first Gotcha.

Do a little braille, just enough to, and and I'm telling the story out of order the braille happened first gotcha.

I kind of learned it, forgot about it, met these blind people, pretended that I could see, pretended that I, you know whatever, because I could see better than them.

And then ends up they're leaving me behind because I'm not using a cane and that I'm not using braille and I'm not using these things.

And so it's a's sad but it's a kick in the ass and sometimes people just need that.

Yeah you need, sometimes you need yeah, you're right Get over yourself, you know.

Yeah, got to get over that hump every now and then right and then you know, you don't know what's on the other side.

Why don't you, yeah, talk a little bit about the Louisiana Center?

Talk a little bit about the louisiana center.

Talk a little bit about the louisiana center for the blind, if you could, sure, okay, so this one, uh, I'll, I'll give them a plug.

I love giving them plugs, nice um well, let's give them a shout.

Hey, shout out right now to louisiana center for the blind yeah, uh, alex has talked a lot about y'all and, uh, you should be proud of yourselves yes, so what this place is is like the premier.

I would say that and I'm not just being biased, because I went there Like the premier training for blind people is actually a center in downtown Ruston, louisiana, which is a tiny town.

Ruston, ruston, louisiana, it's where Louisiana Tech University is.

Ruston, ruston, louisiana, it's where Louisiana Tech University is.

Okay, it's a tiny town.

Okay, it's a tiny town.

There's a railroad track that is like maybe 30 feet away from the center.

Oh yeah, we're talking a full railroad, yeah, like a railroad.

Yeah, like you're walking down the street and the buildings shake, yeah, yeah.

That kind of thing.

Yeah, yeah you feel it, you feel it and as it passes by, you're like holy crap.

And so that place is there and it trains blind people, but what it does is it has everybody, because the other thing is, if you're blind, only about 10% of blind people actually have no vision.

Mostly everybody else has some color vision, some something, whether it's light perception or something.

Yeah, I mean, I now I work with people that are that have low vision and blindness.

I've had clients that literally walk out their car with a cane, with a white cane.

Okay, when I have.

Okay, and the reason they do that is because, while maybe in some parts of the day their vision doesn't work, um, they can still drive, for, you know, for whatever reason either, the lighting is different, um, oh, that's a good.

You know what I mean.

There's not so much glare, and so.

But when they get out, they're like, oh well, I need my cane, I gotta bring it in.

You know, it looks weird, but that's the reality is.

You know, a lot of times people have a little you don't know what kind of disabilities people have.

Good point, some of them are masked, some of them are not, some of them are just not visible.

Yeah, and some of them are not visible until they got out of the car, bro, you know different circumstances different circumstances, different settings.

That you're in different settings, but yeah, but the louisiana center, what it does is it tries to one, teaches people under sleep shades.

So, like you, take a blindfold, basically you put it on whether you can see or you can't okay, and you learn to do everything you need to do as a blind person for the rest of your life, as if you had no vision.

The goal is, let's say you do have vision, okay, okay.

Well, now it doesn't matter, because you can do it as a blind, like completely blind, you could do it with some vision.

Let's say your vision changes, you could do it with some vision.

Let's say your vision changes.

You could do it completely blind, you'd have some vision.

Let's say you go camping, there's no fire.

Well, now you're the one that's going to help out because you're the one that can do things without having to rely on vision.

So that's what they do.

That's what they do.

And then that training center and we can talk a little more if you want, because I have some stories about that.

That training center uh led me to move to nebraska after I finished it because I was I was uh dating someone and they got a job in nebraska and so I went there and then I started working to for one of their centers in nebraska.

That kind of did something similar, but it it was a state-run center, okay.

And then that job led to me moving to DC, to DC, doing some policy work in DC and then, once that finished, going into a blindness agency in Virginia where I work now.

In Virginia itself, in Virginia itself.

And what's the name of the agency?

It's called the Virginia Department for the Blind and Vision Impaired Gotcha.

Yeah, and how long have you been with them?

Man, I've been with them for nine years oh wow, yeah, let's see here there was something that I wanted to.

What was the most valuable thing that you learned at the Louisiana School for the Blind?

Ooh, you learned at the.

Louisiana school for the blind.

Ooh man, I did not expect that, yeah.

I did Listen.

We went over a lot, but I told you there was going to be a few.

The thing I learned was that I needed to have um, oh, what's the word I want to look for?

Take your time Self.

Hmm, I needed to have more direction to be a self-starter.

So one of the before I decided to go to that training center.

I had checked out other training centers and one of the reasons I wanted to go to that one is because, as a city kid, I never learned how to do things with my hands.

Ah, right, you know.

Yeah, sure, because there was a guy for that.

There's always a guy for that.

Yeah, there's a guy for that.

There's a guy for that.

Call a guy for that, call the guy, call the super, call whoever.

So yeah, I could play street fighter and super, you know, and mario brothers, but you know, and then, um, and then I would hear these, you know, women from down south talking about what you do today.

Oh, I just paved my driveway and I'm like what'd you do today?

And I'm like I just I'm just sitting here, but so so I didn't know how to, how to do those things.

And one of the one of the things that you have to do at the training center is they had a woodshop and the point of it wasn't to't to train you vocationally for that woodshop.

You're not going to come out and be a carpenter.

I mean, some people, I'm sure, wanted to, yeah right, but the point of it was because they push you to the limit.

The point is, if you could handle a bandsaw as a blind person safely and independently, then you will understand that a lot of the issues you face are really just society or a lack of resources.

It's not because you're blind.

That's a great dude, that's, that's awesome.

Uh, and now, or you know, connection and I got all my fingers.

Yeah, yeah, right, yeah.

So I did it.

But one of the one of the projects that they had was they would make, like some people would make, a grandfather clock.

Oh my god and I don't mean like a crappy grandfather.

I mean like german parts inside the clock, like they would.

No, I'm a again, I'm a kid from new york.

I don't know how to do these things right, you know I get there.

Um, I get to that class.

You know you don't start out making a clock, you start out, of course, doing these stupid blocks which you call, and a rudimentary yeah, rudimentary, right, is that what it is?

rudimentary, okay, not stupid.

Nice with a nice way.

The nice way, I'm not sure and you know, after you lose blocks and you put holes in them, and then you put pegs in them, and then you make this little braille design thing, uh-huh, um, you know, and you're like, after a few of those, then you move on to the other things and after that you move on to using, um, all the equipment, um, and so I'm like you know again, I'm a city kid, I'm, I'm just, I'm there in class, it's like eight in the morning.

I'm, oh yeah, yeah, falling asleep, for sure, you know, and I have a pair of sleep shades on, so it's not like, oh right, so I have that on falling asleep.

Every you know people that probably had you.

You were, you could probably fall asleep a little bit more than most, yeah, and so um, and finally I get to the point where I started building my clock and I remember cutting, cutting out the pieces and all this stuff, and then we had to stop because the we, they did trips.

They also did like water right, water r rafting, and all these trips to kind of again make you understand that it's not about being blind, it's about being proficient and efficient at things.

Right, putting limitations on yourself.

Don't do that.

And I'm there, right, putting limitations on yourself.

Don't don't do that, right?

So, and I'm there and I know, in the back of my head, like in the back of my mind, I'm like I don't know if I'm gonna have time to finish this project, oh shoot, and.

But I'm trying and I'm there and I show up and I'm there, not, I'm not falling asleep anymore.

Okay, there, and I'm cutting the wood and I'm shaping the wood, and I'm like, and this guy, this instructor called mr James, hmm, is it?

I'm gonna, I'm gonna do the voice because I feel like, yeah, please do you know, can you transform into mr James from a metaphor?

mr James was a very wealthy, independently wealthy former contractor builder who lived there, who lost his vision.

And when he lost his vision, he went to that training center and then, when he went there, he decided that he could do more and he started working there.

Oh, he started working there.

He started working there.

So, mr James, he was like a you know, he's a guy that doesn't mess around, right, he's the guy that you show up and he's like well, it looks like you're late.

Right, there you go, okay, um, and mr james pulls me aside.

He says come here, I'm gonna talk to you a second.

All right, what's up?

He's like well, I didn't say what's up.

I was more respectful than that, of course, yeah he was like, well, I've been doing some math.

It looks like it's gonna take you how many, how many days you think it's gonna take you to do this.

So I'm like trying it out.

I'm like, well, right, and I have my, my schedule out.

I'm like, well, it's five days for this, for this.

And he's like I'll be honest with you, I don't think you're gonna finish this project.

Oh shoot and that's what you were thinking too, that's what I was saying, that's what I knew.

Yeah, in, and that's what you were thinking too.

That's what I was thinking, that's what I knew.

Yeah, in my heart, that's what I knew, but I didn't want to face that.

Okay, the reality was that I didn't take it seriously enough to finish it, okay.

Well, you know what?

The fact that you owned up to it and got that, you understood that.

So that's important.

I went to the bathroom and I broke down and started crying, oh man, because it was more.

It was something more than just a clock, it was something else.

And at some point I went back and and I told you, I worked in nebraska and their training center and I had an opportunity to build stuff there and I built myself a cabinet which I still have in my apartment there you go but yeah, that's man, that's my hardest lesson.

It's like you need.

If you don't have like you, there's nobody to blame but yourself yeah, right, yep, man, that's uh, and I think it's ironic too that it was a clock.

It was a clock, yeah, running out of time.

Look at that.

Yeah, you know that and and yeah, but gosh, I'm sure you, I'm sure it's.

It sounds like you learned a lot from that place and, um, it's great to see that places like that exist, absolutely, you know, and that they're out there for you and uh, and, by the way before and I'm interrupting- but not at all maryland, because we're in maryland right now.

I don't know.

You know, let people know where you are.

Yeah, let me, because we're in Maryland right now.

I don't know.

Let people know where you are.

Yeah, hey, we're in Baltimore, maryland, just so you know hon.

Yes, yes, and you guys have a great training center here too.

Oh cool For blind people, it's called VISM.

How, do you spell that?

V-I-S-M.

I think Vision, okay, something.

I don't know what it is, but you're here, you guys are here.

You have one of those here.

You have one in Virginia, nice, that's called VRCBBI.

Just look for blindness training centers, if you know, should anyone ever need that stuff, nice, but you do have one that's local.

Cool.

Good to know.

That's great to allow people to tap into the resources that are out there.

I think that's really important, so I'm glad you shed some light on that.

Tell me a little bit about a part of your profession where you started working with individuals and then you went to organizations.

Give me a little bit about your professional background.

So I work with individuals Basically.

I'll give you what it looks like on a day-to-day so I might get a referral for someone.

I get a report report, a medical report, you know.

It says this person has glaucoma or, excuse me, um they're.

You know, they lost their vision, diabetic, retinopathy, whatever so I look at the last word you just said there diabetic retinopathy oh wow, so that's when you're, when you're diabetic and then your retina starts basically getting damaged because your diabetes oh, wow, didn't know that existed.

Listen, diabetes is a mofo.

You got to be careful with that stuff because blindness, deafness, all that stuff you you know you could live with, um, but diabetes eats you up inside, wow.

So you got diabetes and you don't take care of it.

You can lose your vision, you can lose your toe, you can lose a bunch of other things.

Wow, gotcha, but yeah, okay, I lost my place.

No, it's okay.

I always try to mention that to people like you're very, very important.

I think let's let's make sure that we um shine some light on the fact that, um, you know you want to take care of yourself, take care of your body and, you know, go to the doctors regularly, get yourself checked out.

Eat healthy, eat healthy.

We're talking about that earlier yeah.

Yeah, in the ride here For sure Eat healthy.

Yeah, so it all ties in.

It does.

It all ties in, and I think the point that we were making, though, was how your professional career working with individuals.

Ah, that's right, it wasn't diabetes, but glad we went there.

We did yeah there we do, yeah.

So so I'm working with individuals, um, and, and basically I, you know, I see someone, I have a little bit of an interview conversation on the phone, okay.

Then I do an assessment or two, um, and the assessment is not necessarily because when you do this for a while, you kind of have a feeling of what people need and where things are going okay, but the assessment is to gather data so that if, if I'm showing you something, I'm not showing you something that you don't care about.

I'm showing you something that you've identified that you need help with.

You know you got kids and and you need to find a job and you need to learn how to.

You know what do you do with your wardrobe now.

How do you match colors?

You used to be a job and you need to learn how to.

You know what do you do with your wardrobe now.

How do you match colors?

You used to be a lawyer and you got a bunch of ties and now your ties don't match any of your suits.

You don't know what matches what.

There's a little bit of strategy for that.

So I'm not there to give you a strategy.

I'm there to help you figure out a strategy, gotcha.

So you take that and now you say oh, rather, I say I don't, I don't want to just affect one level, working with people on one level.

How can I affect people on more than one level?

so if I move like level, of like a building, like you know, like who's on that level?

like who's on the level?

So imagine different people.

So I'm like well, I think if I work with organizations, I can affect people at different levels.

I can affect management.

You're right, I could affect people's interpersonal and intrapersonal relationships.

That's a level I could go above.

Let's say the organization is working now with the government or something.

Now I'm affecting that federal level.

You know that going, you know just expand as far as you can, yeah and so.

I'm like, okay, I think I want to work with systems and do the same thing with systems, not just with individuals.

Okay, and so I shifted.

Like more than two years ago 20, 2023, I started that program Nice.

What was the program itself?

It's called Organizational Development and Knowledge Management, so it's ODKM at George Mason University.

Oh cool, george Mason, all right, shout out to the GMs out there.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, nice, nice, yeah, let's see here Talk a little bit about the national federation.

Okay for the blind, yeah what type of information do you?

I know because that when we had, we had a bunch of conversations before this and that did come up a a lot and I think we should highlight yeah so, so that is, um, it's called a consumer organization, it's a non-profit that basically does everything from advocate for people's rights with low vision and blindness, okay, so let's say a blind mom has a baby.

A nurse comes into the the room, says you're a blind mother, you can't take care of your baby, and now the, the baby gets taken away.

Oh, no, okay.

So now who do you go to in a case like that?

You can go to a lawyer, or you can also go to one of these organizations, okay, and there's two in the country American Council for the Blind and National Federation for the Blind.

Okay, and they help.

That's what they do.

That's what they're there to do.

Maybe put you in touch with lawyers, or maybe it's just try to help your blind kid get braille resources in the classroom, okay, or maybe it's teaching stems, stem, uh, and science, and to blind teenagers so that they can you know when they go into the job market they have some stem type of stem background, or they get inspired, uh, yeah, okay, so, um, that that organization does those things.

Um, and how I came into contact with them was through a karate class.

Yeah, so there was a book by one of the disciples of the gentleman who came up with Kayakushin Karate.

Kayakushin Karate is kind of like a really hard style where they do everything except punch you in the face.

All right, everything but face punch, but punch you in the face.

All right, everything but punch you in the face.

Yeah, all right, all right, okay, so maybe hang with that.

So the student, the student of that gentleman got sent to the united states to push forward that style of karate.

There's, I think, in the 60s or 70s.

And he got here and he says, man, americans don't want to get punched in the face.

So what if we restructure and make a sort of a safer version of this where you still, you know, have hard punches and hard kicks and um and a still a brutal style, but now you're kind of style now you, yeah, now you're focusing, maybe you don't fight people as a white belt, maybe you wait until you're like a green belt or something to fight.

Yeah, gotcha, and so.

But then he, you know somebody in that organization thought like what else can we do?

And they started teaching blind people in New York karate, their karate style, okay.

And I read this book and I read that and because I didn't want anything to do with blindness at that point in my life, I just put it aside and I was like whatever the book is interesting, but this blindness stuff, whatever Kind of gave me the shivers.

But then one day I was like man, I really want to do karate, and so I did and I did.

I found that organization, found the karate school, started taking classes and one of the people there told me that there's nothing more beautiful, there's no sound more beautiful than a bunch of blind people with canes and the canes hitting the floor.

He said it sounds like raindrops.

Oh, shoot, all those blind people at those national conventions that we had talked about, because those organizations have national conventions.

And I I was like, oh, wow, maybe I should join one of these organizations.

But it wasn't the raindrops that made me join?

No, it wasn't, it wasn't.

It was seeing two hot girls that were blind.

I was like, oh, you were like, remember when I said earlier it's like bitch, you're blind?

She wasn't a bitch, she's a really nice.

No, of course, of course, but but she was that, that girl, she was yeah, I saw her and I saw her friend and I was like, yeah, no, I'm going there yeah, right, that away, that away, okay, um, and how?

so there were.

There were many reasons.

Let's just say there were many reasons why you were involved in this and, yes, what's the name of the?

The?

convention that you, oh, it's just called national federation of the blind.

Uh, national convention, okay national convention when is?

The next one.

The next one is is in July and it's in New Orleans.

Okay, oh, okay.

So, dude, you need to do a double up, you need to hit that up and then go see the homies down at the school Right in New Orleans.

Yeah, dude, you'd be running.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, but it'll be fun.

Luckily, I have a job because I work with blind people.

Well, they don't pay me to go there.

They do pay me while I'm there and it's kind of for me, like every year, it's kind of like a refreshing, um, very refreshing to see blind people, because the way that I see blind people now not internally, but, like you know, I'm working with folks that are just starting out, okay, folks that are in a state of emergency.

Really, you know they want these services.

They either lost vision or they lost their job or whatever.

But when you go to these, when I go to these conventions, I'm also meeting those people.

But I'm also meeting mothers and fathers and grandparents and people that work for the federal government.

Well, maybe not right now, um, you know, I'm meeting everyone scientists, I'm meeting everybody, people who are doing not good and people who are doing great, and so that it's a, it's a reset for me, nice, and it inspires me to go out into the community and continue working.

Oh, I love that.

That's awesome to hear, man, hey, there's something that I really want to get into.

I know when I first started talking to you, you gave me some details of just throughout your life itself, and I would love to kind of just like step in your shoes for one day, like, let's just say like we're going to go, we're getting up, we're going to, you know your daily routine, and then you know, let's say, we're taking like the bus, you know to like a restaurant, okay, and then like let's add something fun, you know after the restaurant that you can think of, but like how would your yeah, how would you go by your day?

okay.

So the first thing, when you mentioned the bus, what came up to me is something that one of the instructors at that Louisiana Center told me.

What cuz I saw them at?

Hey man, I'm from New York City, I take the subway.

I know how to take the subway, I don't know how to take the bus he goes.

What's so hard about taking the bus?

I'm like, well, you step on, you step off.

Oh, okay, right, that's okay easy.

Is that easy?

Is that?

I mean, there are some techniques you know, um, like what I would do today might have been different than what I did when.

Today might have been different than what I did when I was first first learning these things, just because of apps and things like that.

So what I would do is I would probably want to know the route of the bus, so I probably go on google maps, um, and just make sure that I'm taking the right bus, you know what bus, how many stops, um, because you know when you take public transportation.

I don't, I don't know how many of you guys do, but sometimes those announcements don't work and I can't read the announcements you know, so I have to, you know, either track on my own, or one other thing is like ask the bus driver hey, can you tell me when I get to such and such?

Okay, and they'll do that.

So I would do that.

Um, that's how I would get on the bus.

And get off the bus, uh, to find a restaurant.

Um, I would like to know where the bus leaves me.

So, for example, lets you off, lets me off, but like, am I on the block that has the even numbers or the odd numbers?

Right, because I need to find the place.

The other thing I would need to do is take a look at the address.

So, like, if I think of an address, 400 south something street, um, I know that it's on the fourth 400 block of something street.

That's how firemen get to your locations, that's how they look at the oh really yeah, that's what they do.

Oh, wow, like you know, if I, if I say 325, it means it's on the 300th block Yep, and then 25, you count up the addresses Yep, of course, and that's how they do it.

So, blind folks who have that training.

That's how we get around.

All right, so I get off the bus.

I found my place Walking into the restaurant, so I got to mention this.

Had this been 10 years ago?

15 years ago, and people were still using change, a lot of change, and dollar bills.

Not everybody uses their iphone or they use some other type of payment.

Right, like, not a lot of places do cash, but one of the things I used to do is listen for that cash register.

Oh, wow, that's interesting because that's going to tell me.

Maybe, if it's a fast food place, like where you know where the?

Um, where do I go up, where do I queue up?

Yep for the line now I'm listening for beeps and you know other other cues, um, so that let's say I it's a restaurant, okay, I might if it's a tight, you know, the place is really tight, um I might take you mean tight, like, nice, like, like it's good.

No, no, I mean tight, tight like literally like remember new york city, kid right.

So like tightly, like there's 38 tables in a four-foot space you're banging in this and banging a ball in a china, so so there I might be like okay, can, uh, can I take your elbow?

Is that okay?

If I take your arm, okay, um, and sometimes I'll just yeah, I'll, I just do that on my own.

Uh, the other thing is like the bathroom.

So the bathroom is interesting because the first thing is I sit down, I start listening.

Where do I hear a door close?

Because that's probably where the bathroom is or where do I hear the kitchen?

Because the bathroom is probably near the water pipes.

Okay, good thought right, um, and you know, geolocate, yeah, so a lot of places like that, um, but basically I I think the day revolves around knowing when I can use assistance, and knowing and, for the most most part, just being able to, to maneuver myself in my environment.

Um, and it does take.

And, as I'll disclose something, most blind people or people with disabilities do not want to think of their existence as more difficult.

What do you mean?

Like I don't want to think that it's going to be harder for me to do something.

That's going to be harder for you, yeah, but the reality is, yes, I'm gonna, I'm gonna have to put more effort into doing something.

Of course, some people look at that like, oh, you're so inspiring yeah, you know so hard, yeah, and I'm like yeah, sure, sure.

And then at the end you know, and I also think, like you know, what that also means your ass is lazy late.

Oh shoot right, right, because how much more effort, you know how much more effort am I doing?

you know to do these things and where are you?

How are you doing so?

And I only take that stance when because some people do look down and you know, when somebody does look down, I'm kind of like okay.

But let me ask you this what are this is a side note here um what are what's like one or two of the misconceptions that people have of of blind people?

um, you know that saying one of them is like the blind leading the blind, right.

Well, if the line blind don't lead the blind, who's going to lead?

The blind side of people are not going to leave the blind, the side of person.

Help me mic drop.

Just drop the mic right now might help me get to us.

You know, I don't know, might point something out, but you're not gonna lead.

You know what I mean yeah it's not leadership got you um.

That's one misconception.

The other misconception is that you're always in a constant need of needing assistance right, yeah, you just mentioned that a second ago right, um, and you know, because I there's a lot of times that I'm just like.

I remember one time I was like standing in dc northwest, uh-huh, just standing on connecticut avenue, uh, for whatever reason, I think I was waiting for uber, so I'm just like standing like head down listening to my, my, uh, my iphone.

Okay, like, literally like not, I don't think, and maybe they thought I was, but I don't think I was looking like I needed help.

I was just kind of close ish to the corner, yeah, and just minding my own business.

Someone's like sir, may I help you across the street?

I'm like, oh, thank you, but no, it ends.

You know, someone else, like a second later, would like maybe grab my arm and try to push me pull me across the street and it's like got you.

You know, please ask.

That's a misconception for some misconception.

You don't know where I want to go.

You don't know that I need the help.

Um, you just ask ask.

So even if you try, if you think you're being helpful, you might not be so, first at least just ask, just ask yeah, I mean, and at the same, you know, saying that with the understanding that not all low vision or blind people, people disability, disabilities have the same level of independence or want the same level of independence.

And so I I don't want to push people away from asking, but the important part is ask like ask, because you know the way that we work is.

We see somebody and we think we put ourselves in their position in this place.

I was like, well, yeah, if I were, if I couldn't see, I would want help crossing the street, but you probably wouldn't want somebody dragging you across the street if you couldn't see for sure, right, but yeah, but an ask is always good and ask is always welcome mmm, you know what let's, let's get, let's see.

I want to ask you what does beauty mean to you?

Hmm, I think that depends on what we're talking about.

Yeah yeah, for sure, but like just by the broad sense, what?

What does it make you think of, kind of think of the most perfect thing you can imagine.

Okay, the most perfect colors, the most perfect texture, perfection think of that.

I'm manifesting it in my mind right now now you carry that and you hit a wall and there's a little chip comes off.

That's beauty, mmm.

Not that the chip came off, but that, that little imperfection within the perfect oh man, darn dude, that's deep right there.

Good shit, what about?

Uh, this is something I.

I asked you know one or two of my friends if they had any questions for you oh yeah and uh, this was from alex here.

Um, he wanted to know.

What other senses do you feel, either like heightened um or or lowered um, do you think that you have to use?

You know, since you are blind, do any of your other senses have to go into overdrive or underdrive?

So I have a few answers, yeah.

One of them is that it's a misconception that you have heightened senses.

When you lose one sense, yeah, sorry, hit the mic again.

Yeah, you're good, I'm not one sense.

Yeah, sorry, hit the mic again.

What happens is, let's say, you learn to drive a car defensively, right, like you know the the police training, where they're running.

You know, and I don't, I just drive a car.

You don't have a superpower, because you learned that.

What it is is that you have a skill, and let's say you are a cop and you do that every day and I'm just a regular citizen and I do it once in my life.

Your skill at doing that is going to be a lot greater than mine.

So that's the same thing that happens with a disability.

It's like one sense doesn't enhance, of course, but you use it more and so you become more familiar with it and that sense is now looks like to the other people, like you have a superpower, but it's not a superpower.

Because my hearing it's not a good way to describe it no, like, my hearing is the same as your hearing, of course.

It's just that you don't have to hear for traffic when you're walking halfway down the block.

It's like when are you listening, Right?

Not like how are you?

listening, not like how you are not, not not necessarily exactly right, exactly and you know what, this is a perfect time to segue, I think.

Um, well, actually you were describing that, though I think there was a few more, where, you see, there was a few more things that you wanted to tie in.

Yeah, so um, I forget alex's question, because the first one was uh, the.

The question that he has was uh, as far as your senses, okay, yeah are.

Are any of them um, um, heightened?

But I think there was.

Oh, was there anything else that you wanted to add to that?

yeah, yes.

So the other part of that is and again I have to point it out hit the mic, keep hitting the mic.

It's okay.

Um, some senses do get overwhelmed.

So, for example, I know plenty of people blind people who, in crowded, crowded places, crowded areas, can get over, like Like yesterday.

You saw where I live.

I live right across the street from the baseball field and it was really crowded.

Now, usually that block is really there's not that many people.

So I get out of my Uber and I'm used to listening to where the entrance is.

It sounds a little bit different if I'm walking toward the entrance of my building.

Um, there's a carpet on the floor, there's like glass, um doors, um, so it sounds.

And then there's like a space, um, there's like planters around it, okay, so it sounds different than if I'm just walking along the wall.

But I couldn't hear that.

So it took me like 30 seconds more to find the door to the building and so those senses, like my hearing at that point, was a little overwhelmed because I'm listening to everybody walking around.

There's a bunch of traffic.

Oh yeah, I'm thinking about all the other things that are going on around you as well.

Yeah, and toning some of those out, yes, oh, I never thought about that actually.

So like the worst thing.

Um, if I go into the metro and there's a guy playing the sax, like that sounds great but it's preventing me to hear where the tracks are, where the people are levels to this.

There's levels to this right, so um, so, so yeah, and then tying that to where I said, you know, it is a little harder, it is to to sort of live with a disability.

It is because, as a sighted person, or as a person who's able-bodied, you don't think, oh, that guy, I mean it might, it might annoy you, yeah, but you don't think, oh man, I could fall into the tracks because that dude is playing a beautiful song, you know sometimes the beauty there's beauty in the madness.

Sometimes you to just stop and listen to the song.

Stop and listen to the song.

Right, yeah, maybe that gives you the opportunity to take some patience.

And you know what?

Speaking of patience, there's a small segment here that I want to kind of transfer into real quick.

Let's see here.

I got a few questions for you.

Okay, this is kind of a rapid fire All right, let's see here.

Um, I got a few questions for you.

Okay, this is kind of a rapid fire all right, let's do it.

Let's do it, put a bunch of seconds on the clock here yeah yeah, um, okay, you ready name a song that always gets you pumped up oh, um it's a song that always gets me.

I don I don't have a song necessarily that gets me pumped up.

It gets me.

There's a song from back in the day, from the Mortal Kombat soundtrack the first one.

Not that one, no, but that one does get me pumped up, but it's not that one.

It's one by, I think, orbital.

Okay, it's called, I think, halcyon.

On and On and On Sing it.

Let me hear you sing.

If I sing it, it's stupid.

It's just like a reverb, reversed voice going.

And then a bass line.

And then, and it goes on for like 11 minutes.

Okay, but I just that's it.

That's the beautiful.

Yeah, okay, next question.

Next question.

All right, we're going rapid fire with these.

Okay, rapid fire.

Talk about a time you helped someone in need.

Oh, I think it's a small act that you've done recently um shit come on, I thought I was gonna do this rapid fire.

Um.

Oh, someone in need, uh, someone in need um come on, when do you?

when's the last time you helped somebody?

I think every day.

That's the problem, oh I think, yeah, I'm like okay, uh, okay, uh, help someone.

Help someone, you can pass you can open the door.

There you go.

Okay, come on, I saw, I saw you all right.

If you could have any question answered, what would it be?

What?

Any question.

What is this?

What is all this?

What is life all?

This oh my god, I don't even know if it's life, just if it's life rapid fire rapid fire.

What is life?

What is all this?

Okay, if you could combine two animals, which would they be?

oh, a cow and an elephant, an elephant a caliphate, a caliphate nice, love it.

Big ass ribeye yeah oh, dude, that's, that's dinner for days.

Have you ever eaten something weird just to see how it tastes?

Yes yes, okay right, it doesn't even ask you what it was yeah, let's not even yep all right.

Would you ever want a job testing flavors of food?

Yes, yes, there you go.

Nice, have you ever gotten lost?

Where were you and what happened?

Yes, so have I ever gotten lost?

Yes, where was I?

I don't remember, you don't?

No, I don't remember.

That's why you were lost, yeah.

I usually don't get lost, know?

No, that's why you were lost.

Yeah, I don't.

Yeah, I usually don't get lost.

And what happened?

Well, clearly, I found my way.

Yeah, um, you're here now I'm here right, yeah, nice man.

Well, you know, I think we all get lost every now and then, but I it just depends on we're gonna find our way back.

You know, um?

And I have one last segment for us sure, sure okay um, I have, uh, somebody on the phone line here.

Okay, who could it be?

And this actually is the younger you, okay, okay.

So I want you to have a conversation with yourself and basically tell your old self anything that you want.

Um so my old self or younger self to your younger self yep, your younger self.

Yep, uh, maybe like 20 years ago, okay, 25 something like that 20 years ago it's the phone for you all right yep, there you go for you.

All right, yep, there you go.

Okay, yeah, it's got, yep, hey, a younger self.

Um, what are you doing right now?

Or should I say yo, yo, yo, what up, what up, what's going on?

Yo, man, um, because I know that's how you talk back then.

Um, so a few things.

Number one you're gonna be okay, everything's gonna be okay, life is okay, um.

Number two it's gonna take a while for you to figure out what you want to do, and that is okay.

Take your time, not too much time, but you know, make good choices.

Number three yes, you are going to have girlfriends, and it's okay and that's also going to be all right, but it's going to take a while for you to figure out your relationships and what patterns there are in those relationships.

Um, and let me see there's anything else.

Oh, yeah, you, you're gonna keep making music.

There's a little bit of time there where you don't make music because it's not accessible to you, um, but once it is, it's gonna be amazing.

But once it is, it's going to be amazing.

It gets crazy, dude, like you could have, like a group of singers in your back pocket.

Don't ask me how, just wait for the technology and then, finally, keep exercising, keep doing the things you do, be fit, be healthy, keep eating well and don be healthy.

Keep eating well and don't be so hard on yourself.

Understand that it's okay to receive and it is okay to love without an expectation, or to be loved without an expectation.

Okay, what do you got to say?

All right, well, you keep doing what you're doing there.

Don't tell me, I'm pretty sure it's nevermind.

All right, I'll talk to you later.

Here we go.

Awesome, that was good stuff, the good stuff, dude.

Well, alex man, I just want to thank you.

You know, it's been really cool to get to know you and get to really just kind of pick your brain, and I appreciate your patience with me.

Yeah, it was a fun process.

Yeah, it was a nice process.

I appreciate it.

Yeah, I agree, I agree it was good times and I look forward to continuing talking to you, and you never know, you know we might be able to, you know, have you on here again at some point, cause I do feel like we we got through a lot of stuff, but I genuinely feel like we could, you know, do a whole nother hour or two.

So we'll have to, we'll have to feel that out and hopefully we'll be able to make it happen to us.

So we'll have to.

We'll have to feel that out and hopefully we'll be able to make it happen.

Do you have any uh last minute?

Um you know, words or um intentions or anything that you want to leave um the listeners with?

yeah, so I I think what I was saying to my younger self um, the first thing is, it's going to be okay, you're going to be okay, you can handle it, you can take it.

Uh.

The second thing is just be a good person to other people.

There's nothing that's going to give you more than giving of yourself for others, being part of community.

However, you can do that and I think that's it.

Oh yeah, no, no, there's one more.

Food is life and life is food man.

Yes, dude, eat, well, eat with people you know share that's it.

Well, you know what dude let's hit them with?

The food is life, life is food.

Out here, okay, listen, hashtag.

Okay for my, my man, alex here, and uh, I'm super grateful to have you here and I just want to thank everybody else for joining us and until the next episode.

Yeah, man, yep, we're turning the page.

All right, all right.

Peace out Later.

Bye.