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In this episode, for the first time, Erin Patterson's legal team states their intention to appeal her convictions for three counts of murder and one count of attempted murder.

Plus, she has two new barristers on her side.

Erin Patterson is a murderer.

She invited her in-laws to lunch and dished up that now infamous beef Wellington laced with poisonous mushrooms.

I have a concern regarding a patient that is potentially exposed to a fatal toxin from mushroom poisoning.

What's her name?

Last name is Patterson.

First name Erin.

The mother of two has been exposed for who she really is a triple murderer.

Three people have died, and we've had a person that nearly died and was seriously injured.

Justice has been served.

The jury giving a very strong four unanimous guilty verdicts today.

I had eyes on her as the four women stood up and read out guilty for different times to all four charges.

Finding she did have the intent to harm her estranged husband's in-laws and to kill them.

Some of the best people I've ever met, they never did anything wrong to me, and I'm so devastated about what's happened.

Those 12 jurors, the people who sealed her fate after a ten week trial.

But ultimately they found that she's a liar and they found her guilty.

Well, we weren't expecting to see Aaron Patterson again or be back in court for her case just a month after she was sentenced.

Aaron.

But that's exactly what's happened here in Melbourne today.

That's right.

Continuing on from the unpredictable trial and all the twists and turns, once again, there's been, um, another update that we can bring our listeners.

And this was a very, very short court hearing.

It went for about three minutes in total.

But first of all, representing Aaron Patterson is her third barrister since she's been charged.

And it wasn't Colin Mandy who everyone got to know through the trial period, a barrister called Richard Edney.

Now, he also confirmed for the first time that Aaron Patterson will be appealing against her convictions.

That's right.

Richard Edney walked into court today to speak with Justice Christopher Beale, and he walked in alongside Aaron Patterson's solicitors.

They've been her solicitors from the very beginning, Bill Doig and Ophelia Holloway.

Um, but, uh, as he walked in, he was, you know, very sharp suit, very well presented man strutted straight in like he knew what he needed to do and took a seat at the bar table on the other side.

We had Jane Warren for the Crown prosecution.

She didn't need to say much as part of the hearing.

Um, we heard the ventilation of what is just going to happen with Aaron Patterson's appeal.

Yeah.

And what we've spoken about with listeners before is that usually in Victoria, what happens is at the conclusion of a matter, usually a sentence.

There's this 28 day clock that starts to count down, and that's for if there's going to be an appeal that appeal paperwork being lodged with the higher court, the Court of Appeal now very recently between Aaron Patterson being sentenced and where we are now, about two weeks ago, there was what's called a new practice direction, which is a trial that's been brought in.

So this is going to be tested over around a year.

And what it allows is instead of a 28 day period, an extra 28 day period.

So 56 total for applicants to get in their paperwork, submit officially and lodge that appeal without having to explain themselves.

And Aaron, I might get you to talk a little bit more about the process as it was as we know it, with the way that people had to apply for more time.

But it sort of all happens backwards.

It does.

It really does.

So technically, what is normally supposed to happen is there's a bit of a 28 day window from the date of sentence, which would have taken Aaron Patterson to midnight on October 6th.

That her defense team had to file an intention to appeal conviction or sentence and or in.

What happened then?

I think it was about the 17th of September.

The Chief Justice announced that there was going to be a trial, um, of a bit of a change, because what they were seeing was a lot of barristers having to apply for extra time outside of those 28 days to complete that paperwork, um, because there'd been a backlog.

And so lots, lots of complaints had been raised or concerns, I probably should say concerns raised about meeting that deadline.

So what this trial effectively does is instead of having to file an affidavit, penny explaining why you need extra time, why you should have perhaps an extra week or two to to file that documentation, you won't need to file that affidavit during this trial.

Effectively, you'll be given a green light to have extra time, um, in order to do so.

Now what happens typically is if you want an extension for your appeal before this trial, yes, you put in that application.

We've seen it in other cases, like Greg Lynn, for example, Penny, where he filed his just outside his deadline.

Um, there is often a bit of a risk there.

Sometimes it can get to the Court of Appeal and they say, no, we won't give you an extension of time.

Um, I mean, I've never seen that happen, but there is that risk.

So what this change effectively does is give, um, barristers a green light to have an extra few weeks to prepare all their documentation.

And it is confusing because we're talking there about a trial, but not a legal criminal trial in the way that we've seen Aaron Patterson facing being found guilty.

But a trial is in a test to see if a system works a little bit better.

And the way that the Court of Appeal system works is that once that paperwork is lodged, and essentially what the legal team is seeking is what's known as leave to appeal.

And when it gets to the point that it's heard by the Court of Appeal.

That's three justices of the Court of Appeal, which we don't expect anything in the Court of Appeal to move very quickly.

At the moment everything's quite slow.

So this we're now looking in terms of a result for Aaron Patterson's application.

It will be probably a year or well into next year before we know what's going on.

But what actually happens is despite the lodging of the paperwork from an applicant, it then when the appeal is heard, it's heard as the three justices first announcing and giving a ruling on whether they'll actually grant the leave to appeal.

Now they can either say, yes, we're granting the leave to appeal.

And that means usually on that day, let's go.

The appeal goes ahead.

Or they can say, no, we're going to throw it all out.

We're not granting leave to appeal.

So there's no appeal hearing essentially at all.

But it all happens on that one day.

And what was happening as well with this extension of time is the extension of time was being rolled into the leave to appeal as well.

So you'd say we want this extra time, but you wouldn't hear back as to whether, yes, you were getting an extension of time.

Yes, you could have your appeal until this particular day.

So it does in a way simplify things going forward.

But this is certainly the first major case that we've seen have have this happen under this, this very new test.

And it has meant that it's been a little bit of a different day for all of the reporters and everyone getting their heads around this particular system.

And I think what also has been the most, I guess, newsworthy or thing that people have been speaking about the most is that while we've seen Colin Mandy with Aaron Patterson all the way through this trial, speaking to her in the dock, he was sort of the face of the legal team, the voice of her defense.

He wasn't there today.

It was Richard Edney.

But we understand there will actually be a fourth barrister representing Aaron Patterson when it comes to this appeal.

We have confirmed that Julian McMahon SC, a very well-known criminal barrister and known for his human rights work as well, will be representing her in her appeal at this stage.

Now, while he wasn't in court today, he is going to be taking the appeal forward.

And Julian McMahon has got a very, very long history in the criminal law in Victoria.

He's been practicing for, I think, nearly 20 years, and that is his his main work as a criminal defence barrister.

However, what people most notably probably will know him for is the work that he's done overseas for Australians who have been convicted of smuggling drugs and some facing the death penalty.

He did represent some of the Bali Nine.

He's also worked on another case in Singapore as well, so people will have seen headlines today around Aaron Patterson being represented by Julian McMahon.

We do understand that is the case as we head towards an appeal, but that appeal is yet to be formally lodged.

Yeah.

And this is we're talking sort of senior barristers here.

Often you'll have a senior and a junior barrister during a trial depending on how complicated or or serious these cases can be.

You can see more and more joining the team.

And we also had Sophie Stafford, as you know, Penny during the trial there working alongside Colin Mandy.

She was also absent from court.

And so again was Annette Rogers for the Crown prosecution.

Um, but we had largely the same face as otherwise in court.

Um, the informant was there.

A lot of other members of the homicide squad also attended the hearing?

Um, there were a couple of members of the public.

I could see, um, in the gallery overhead, but largely press.

Um, we're all pretty much shoulder to shoulder in that courtroom, um, getting our heads around all of this new information.

Um, you know, the explanation of how an appeal works can probably have a lot of our listeners heads spinning.

Um, it is incredibly complicated.

And because it is complicated, um, and it's really, really high stakes.

Um, it does take time.

Um, it does take time for everybody to file paperwork, Penny.

And it does take time for it to get before the court.

We know with the Greg Lynn appeal, which is coming up soon.

You know, that's about 12 months since his, um, date of sentencing.

Um, when we've seen others typically follow the same timeline.

Um, one might expect that if a person is appealing a conviction rather than a sentence, that maybe they would get priority.

Um, we don't really know how things work behind the scenes at the Court of Appeal, but, um, it's very, very common for people to appeal.

But that doesn't mean it's easy, and it does not mean at all that it's straightforward.

It's just another one of these twists and turns in this case, Penny, as we we're all trying to follow what's going on, and we really don't know the next date that she will be back in court.

Um, there could be other things going on.

We know the restraining order on her house is something that's are still alive issue.

Um, and that's got us really looking at whether or not, um, legal Aid will come in now to fund an appeal.

The higher you go in a court, sometimes the more difficult it can be to obtain legal aid funding.

But, um, if she hasn't got any funds, um, and no, um, accessible assets, it seems common sense that she would be going down a legal aid route.

And we know that there was a public ad put out by one of her friends trying to sell her car a little while ago, the red M.G.

that everyone's seen in a lot of that footage where she stopped and spoke to the media the first and really only time before she was charged.

And we don't, um, as you say, know exactly where the access to money is at the moment because there's the restraining order to stop any sale of the Leongatha property.

And we would expect that extends to starting to extend to some other assets as well.

So people do have the ability to apply for legal aid.

That's not something that occurs in a public courtroom.

It's it's basically an application to a board.

And there are different, um, circumstances taken into consideration and different things that have to be met and decided on there.

But she's also just celebrated her second birthday behind bars, too.

She's just turned 51.

Yeah.

On the 30th of September.

Penny, um, was the marking of her 51st birthday.

So it's been a week of events for this triple murderer.

We don't know anything about how she would have celebrated, um, or not her birthday while she's in custody.

We did see her briefly on the video link.

Um, when she appeared in court for this brief hearing.

Um, she was wearing a blue windcheater, which is what they women commonly wear in Dame Phyllis Frost, centre.

And, um, she was sitting at the same, um, table that she normally does, staring out the window for a lot of the hearing.

We didn't get much of a reaction from her.

It's not unusual at all, Penny, but this was, as you said earlier in this episode, um, a hearing that only went for a couple of minutes.

Um, a very important hearing, but one that was over very, very quickly.

And it's now, um, I guess, up to us to watch and and wait and find out whether or not those appeal documents get lodged.

Yes.

They said today.

Um, they have an intention to appeal the conviction.

But until that paperwork is lodged, Penny, um, you never know what is going to happen.

So 56 days will be the maximum time at the moment.

Um, they've indicated that they will need, um, but we'll be checking in with the court every day quite regularly to find out if and when that occurs.

We'll be back with more after this.

And as to what grounds Aaron Patterson might appeal her conviction on.

A lot of people have said to me, this looks pretty, you know, water tight from the outside.

How could she possibly try and say now that she's not guilty after this jury verdict?

The system allows for for an appeal.

It depends, obviously, on what grounds the defence can put to the Court of Appeal whether those justices allow it to go forward.

They will have to find points of law, different things to, um, build an appeal on essentially to try and get that leave to to launch that hearing in the first place.

And when we do see the paperwork lodged, which we are expecting around early November.

That should give us some indication as to what her legal team want to try and rely on to try and have these convictions and the jury decisions.

Relooked at.

As for a sentence appeal, that can happen as well.

They've not indicated at this point that they would appeal that life sentence with a 33 year non-parole period.

However, there have been reports that the Director of Public Prosecutions, the prosecution team, whether they would look to appeal that sentence, they, of course, argued initially that Aaron Paterson should be jailed for life without the possibility of parole.

We know if that had happened, she would only be the second woman in Australia ever given that sentence.

It wasn't what happened in the end.

I spoke to the Office of Public Prosecutions earlier this week about what their their plans were, and they said that they haven't yet made a decision.

So we know that they've got until midnight on the 6th of October, 2025 to file those documents.

So the earliest we would find out is the following morning, the Tuesday morning on the 7th of October, whether or not they did decide.

But they did send me a statement this week saying, um, that they were still, you know, considering it.

But they hadn't made a formal decision yet.

So the clock is ticking.

Penny, there's only I'm counting on my calendar now, a couple of sleeps, um, that they've got.

And we know that the weekend is fast approaching.

Um, so we would hope to know within a number of days if the OP also would like to join, um, the same rung and go down in the appeal route as well, or whether or not they will accept the sentence that was handed down.

And we do know just from speaking with people in the legal profession today, conversations that I've had it certainly the feeling amongst, uh, criminal lawyers that it is more unusual to get an appeal from the prosecution side on a sentence.

And a lot of that's because they have to take a lot of different things into consideration between they refer to them as stakeholders, but basically victims families, police and and ultimately it's up to the director to decide, do we go forward on a, on another, uh, hearing essentially, and all the work and time and money that goes into that or will we accept this?

And whereas we do see a little bit more regularly, um, accused and then convicted people appealing either against their sentence or conviction, which they're certainly allowed to put those appeals to the Court of Appeal.

But those three justices have to make the decision as to whether they're worthy of an appeal in the circumstances or it can't just be, I don't like it.

I insist I'm innocent.

Yeah.

And we've seen a lot of lawyer X related appeals and a, like, um, starting to pop up in the Court of Appeal in the last couple of years.

And often we'll walk in and we'll sit down ready to hear whether or not a person's been granted an appeal.

And it's, uh, no appeal, denied sentence or conviction.

Whatever it is you've applied for, denied.

And the hearing is over within about 25 seconds.

It's so fast.

The seat you've sat down on isn't even warm.

You know, the leather seats you sit down on?

um.

You're there.

You've barely unpacked your handbag, getting out your laptop, and all of a sudden, um, everybody in the room's built up.

All of this feeling and emotion and anxiety of what's going to happen, including the accused, who usually appears via video link, not knowing what their fate is going to be.

I mean, the Court of Appeal hold such power and such important power in their hands, deciding whether or not somebody could potentially spend the rest of their life in prison or walk free that day.

Um, it's such an important process, such a high stakes process.

And yeah, sometimes it's just over super quick.

Other times the hearing might go for half an hour or an hour or so.

Sometimes an appeal can run for weeks or months.

It's you just never know.

And I imagine that's very stressful for any legal team.

On the prosecution or defense side that that ends up in the Court of Appeal because like us, you really don't know a which way it's going to go.

And B, how long are you going to be in that court for?

And if it blows out to months and you end up seeing retrials and things like that.

That does occur.

Um, yeah.

That's a that's a lot of time and a lot of effort.

And they certainly are those, those real unknown days, like you're saying, Erin, because the teams that are coming to the bench, they have to be prepared for it to go either way.

So they need to either be ready to stand up and argue and speak.

And the three Court of Appeal justices, whoever they are presiding over each case, will often have multiple questions for, uh, different legal representatives as they go through their arguments.

Or, as you said, they can be over so, so quickly.

And in those circumstances, we tend not to receive any reasons publicly.

It's just, yes, it's going ahead or no.

And we either hear the appeal or we don't.

So we certainly don't expect to see if this sort of goes a lot further.

Anything really fleshed out in a legal argument sense publicly, uh, for up to a year's time, or at least certainly months and well into next year.

Yeah.

Another big question that I've had a lot of people asking me about as well.

Penny is what's going to happen with the civil side of things.

Is anybody going to get compensation?

Will her kids, will Ian Wilkinson, the families?

Um, anybody related to them going to get any sort of compensation?

Will it come from the House?

What will that look like?

It's still early days.

Um, we know that the restraining order does remain on the house, but there certainly hasn't been any public progression in what's happening with that either.

Perhaps that will, um, be put on ice a little bit, um, while the appeal is going on.

That's typically what I've seen happen in the past.

But certainly if we see or hear anything in that regard, we'll we'll bring our listeners those updates as soon as we have them.

Yeah.

And it's certainly just another sort of reminder after the last time we spoke, Ian Wilkinson standing on those steps outside the court, being noticeably relieved, I think, I guess that at least this part of the process was over in the sentencing.

But so often in the legal world, things are not over when when you think that they are over in terms of victims families and people on that side.

So it's certainly just a reminder that how far there can be to go for things to still be continually coming around and reminding people of what's happened, whether there's anywhere to go further than the Court of Appeal remains to be seen.

There is, of course, the High Court in Australia, but at this point I think it's very much focused just on the Court of Appeal sort of being a last ditch attempt by Aaron Paterson, who she's in solitary confinement for life at this point.

There's there's not a lot else for her to do or look forward to.

But thank you for listening to this episode of say Grace.

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We'd like to acknowledge the traditional owners of the land that this podcast was recorded on, and wherever you're listening to it now, say Grace is created and hosted by me, Penelope Leach.

And me, Aaron Pearson.

This podcast is produced by Genevieve Rule.