[SPEAKER_02]: There you go.

[SPEAKER_02]: Matt here at Dead Center.

[SPEAKER_02]: I've been trying to across filmmakers to get them to interview, and I've actually been sitting in the same room with one of my interviews for past thirty and forty-four to forty-five minutes, and we didn't realize it, so my bad.

[SPEAKER_02]: That being said, I'm going to let you introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about yourself.

[SPEAKER_04]: Sweet.

[SPEAKER_04]: Hi.

[SPEAKER_04]: Um, yeah.

[SPEAKER_04]: Sitting in the waiting room for forty five minutes.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's okay.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's okay.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's my fault.

[SPEAKER_04]: Two.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's on your shirt.

[SPEAKER_04]: I, you know, whatever.

[SPEAKER_04]: It takes two.

[SPEAKER_04]: Um, but hi.

[SPEAKER_04]: My name is Sabrina Sillyha.

[SPEAKER_04]: I'm a filmmaker.

[SPEAKER_04]: I am based in Santa Fe, New Mexico.

[SPEAKER_02]: Can you tell us a little bit about your film?

[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, yeah, of course.

[SPEAKER_04]: So my mom has Navajo and my dad has been gauly.

[SPEAKER_04]: So I've grown up with both Indian jokes all my life.

[SPEAKER_04]: Thanks for that last white man in fourteen ninety one.

[SPEAKER_04]: I was so much work film as a foul at a Navajo Bengali niece who's both Indians.

[SPEAKER_04]: She wants a quiet birthday, and then you're too anti-show up on an ounce.

[SPEAKER_04]: And they're both world-renowned breadmakers, and they burst into our breadmaking competition.

[SPEAKER_04]: And the niece must decide which bread is better.

[SPEAKER_04]: Navajo, fried bread, or Bengali root tea.

[SPEAKER_04]: And it's called Legend of Fai root tea, Rise of the Do.

[SPEAKER_02]: Is this a world premiere?

[SPEAKER_04]: Yes, it's my world premiere.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and it's so cool because literally shot this one year ago.

[SPEAKER_04]: So, oh, premiere on June, Fourteenth, and that was our first day of shooting last year.

[SPEAKER_04]: Which is super cool.

[SPEAKER_04]: And it's funny how things work out.

[SPEAKER_04]: My parents met in Oklahoma.

[SPEAKER_04]: So, it kind of is where my both Indian jokes started.

[SPEAKER_04]: And my mom is here too.

[SPEAKER_04]: So, it's super cool.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yes, that was my mom in the waiting room.

[SPEAKER_04]: So, boy, see, I need to listen to her.

[SPEAKER_04]: Because she was like Sabrina and say something.

[SPEAKER_04]: I was like, I don't know.

[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know what's going on.

[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe they would have said something when they walked in.

[SPEAKER_02]: So it's, it's, it's, it's both us.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, so what was the genesis of the story?

[SPEAKER_02]: What inspired you to create it?

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, so it's my first short film.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's my directorial debut.

[SPEAKER_04]: So I wanted it to kind of be like a calling card and like the joke of being both Indians with something I like hated most of my life, but now as a filmmaker and as a joke writer, I'm like, there's so much there.

[SPEAKER_04]: So I'm like, okay, this is now my calling card.

[SPEAKER_04]: So I was thinking about like the similarities of both cultures, like his there's a lot of similarities and differences aside.

[SPEAKER_04]: the Indian part.

[SPEAKER_04]: And I was like the biggest thing in common is the anti-culture on both sides, like just even on TV reservation dogs and more.

[SPEAKER_04]: So like those anti-sverses, like the mini-cales never have I ever anti-s.

[SPEAKER_04]: Like that was my lookbook.

[SPEAKER_04]: I'm like that was my pitch from the start.

[SPEAKER_04]: So I'm like anti-cultures like knowing can roast you like a native and daisy anti-s.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's just so prominent and they're both like meteorites in that way.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_04]: So I was like, okay, so I want to aunties to kind of represent like my inner monologue in my head growing up.

[SPEAKER_04]: And then I was like, okay, what can they do?

[SPEAKER_04]: And I just like the comedy, math of it all, I'm like, okay, I like the place I'm most terrified to be with my aunties is in the kitchen.

[SPEAKER_04]: Like, it's a terrifying.

[SPEAKER_04]: And I think it's really cool that every culture has its own bread.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's like similar ingredients, but it's like, [SPEAKER_04]: You know, due to history and the foods and stuff like that, it reflects like the culture.

[SPEAKER_04]: And so I was like, okay, well, I can do like two breads.

[SPEAKER_04]: So like, aunties, breadmaking, I'm like terrified of the kitchen with them.

[SPEAKER_04]: And it, uh, because there's a high standard.

[SPEAKER_04]: And like, this is an indigenous podcast, a naval fry bread.

[SPEAKER_04]: Is the best, like objectively, right?

[SPEAKER_04]: We all know this.

[SPEAKER_04]: So I'm like, I'm just kidding.

[SPEAKER_04]: I'm not, but.

[SPEAKER_04]: That was kind of the genesis of this film and I love puns so there's just a bunch of red puns and I thought It's so silly.

[SPEAKER_04]: I was like okay, and then I also thought like both cultures like obviously face like Colonization but like the after effects and how it's processed is so differently like the first thing that comes to mind is like colorism like a native culture especially like today in twenty twenty five there's like colorism and it's like [SPEAKER_04]: darker the better so you can see like your native and then on the south Asian side it's like lighter the better so like colonization affecting both cultures but how it's like like seen today is differently so then without like lecturing the crowd I was like I'll just do it through bread puns like so the whole film is just like [SPEAKER_04]: on the nose, metaphor.

[SPEAKER_04]: I'm like, I have a monologue that's like, this bright can be too lighter, too darker.

[SPEAKER_04]: You know, that sort of thing.

[SPEAKER_04]: So that was really the genesis of like, I hope that it's a reflection of just like who I am as like an artist as a filmmaker, screenwriter.

[SPEAKER_04]: I just want to create stories of like joy and I love puns and I love family.

[SPEAKER_04]: And yeah, that was, that's like what it is today.

[SPEAKER_02]: How are you able to pull the crew or your team together?

[SPEAKER_02]: How did that come about?

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, so it was really important to me for obviously to have as many like Native and South Asian producers and crew and obviously in front of camera.

[SPEAKER_04]: So I started with Brooke Swaney.

[SPEAKER_04]: She's like, I went to the Institute of American Indian Arts where I got my MFA in-screen rating and she was my mentor there.

[SPEAKER_04]: So proud of that school, so such a proud alum.

[SPEAKER_04]: So like, I received three grants for this, one of them being vision maker, media, and you have a mentor.

[SPEAKER_04]: So bro, it came in as my ex-producer.

[SPEAKER_04]: And then I was like, okay, then like two, I want like one native producer, one South Asian producer, because it just fits the film.

[SPEAKER_04]: So I have like a leafy Ollie, she's Pakistani.

[SPEAKER_04]: And she like does like South Asian comedies and she's amazing and then Alex Nystrom.

[SPEAKER_04]: He's a native producer and we just like hit it off out of imaginative two years ago.

[SPEAKER_04]: So it was really cool.

[SPEAKER_04]: It was cool because like out of imaginative I remember sitting in the room and like Cody lightning like just premiered Eric had his screening.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah Victor Victor and I remember right there he was like [SPEAKER_04]: He was like, yeah, like, ten years ago or whatever, like, this is where I met, like, the people I came up with here to imagine it.

[SPEAKER_04]: I remember sitting there, like, by myself, friendless being, like, I hope that happens to me.

[SPEAKER_04]: And that's where I met Alex, and he, like, came to produce, like, my short film.

[SPEAKER_04]: So those were like my producers and then I was living at Atlanta at the time.

[SPEAKER_04]: So and one of my grants is through Georgia film as well.

[SPEAKER_04]: And so like having like people there in Atlanta as well.

[SPEAKER_04]: So yeah, a lot of my crew like if they're not like native or South Asian, I'm sure now like people of color.

[SPEAKER_04]: But yeah, that in in front of camera, like obviously that [SPEAKER_02]: What did you want to cast yourself was that was that like something that you're like, I've got to I've got to play this or was there like a casting process or like, no, this is going to be me.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, no, I was open to the idea either way.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's whatever fit the story.

[SPEAKER_04]: So I worked with Stacey Rice with [SPEAKER_04]: mid-thunder casting.

[SPEAKER_04]: So it kind of depended like where we, because I didn't know, like, I was like, you know, there's a lot of decisions about casting and like aunties.

[SPEAKER_04]: And I was like, you know, I could, like, I, I, I, like, the cast in call is like open need of open South Asian.

[SPEAKER_04]: So like not specifically Navarro, not specifically Bengali, Lori Toppahonso, which plays the Navarro anti-in the film.

[SPEAKER_04]: She's Navarro, then it just kind of like fell pretty authentically, then I was like, okay, well, [SPEAKER_04]: It's my age and I'm now from Bengali so it just kind of like worked that way.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah so from the beginning I kind of had an inkling that it would be me but it was open to like finding someone else and just depending where casting like landed and it just like worked out and it's like really funny I think when you look at both of them I feel like I do look like both of them and just [SPEAKER_04]: We just looked like a family, so like we casted the aunties, and then that's when I was gonna make the decision of like, do I wanna cast someone else or is it me?

[SPEAKER_04]: I started as an actor, so I actors first.

[SPEAKER_04]: So yeah, I was a director, I booked myself, I was like, I guess I'm the best one for this.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well now what were the challenges of like being both in front of and behind the camera?

[SPEAKER_02]: That is something I've done some directing, and I can't imagine [SPEAKER_02]: doing both.

[SPEAKER_02]: That seemed like a lot.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's so much especially in this film where I have so much like choreo because there's like a big food fight and stuff like that.

[SPEAKER_04]: Like it was [SPEAKER_04]: for periods of.

[SPEAKER_04]: And I knew that going in.

[SPEAKER_04]: It was just like trusting my team and having a lot of conversations and like so much of directing is prop and I love prop.

[SPEAKER_04]: I'm type A, so much prop.

[SPEAKER_04]: Like so much talking to my production heads and like people knowing like what I want and working with my D.P.

[SPEAKER_04]: We like, I made like a Lego model of like where we shot.

[SPEAKER_04]: We had like Legos and that was my story board.

[SPEAKER_04]: So it was just like so the process like day of shooting was like the first so it was a three day shoot on the first half of the day I would go watch playback but then I knew eventually like obviously time crunch I went off time to do that so I had like a I really close actor friend Rachel Thompson she's so great and we just have like we've been in so many acting classes together so she'd be my short hand for like performance and like I talked to her extensively of [SPEAKER_04]: What I was looking for for me and then my producer was just on monitor just making sure we got the shot so it just was like really trusting my team of like Did we get it and it kind of worked because like my character is like flustered and like once control and I'm like that's me on side so I'm kind of like just just like all fed into each other as a director.

[SPEAKER_04]: I'm like [SPEAKER_04]: I was like, I wish I could see it on monitor right now.

[SPEAKER_04]: I hope we got it.

[SPEAKER_04]: But character-wise, I'm like, that's literally what I want in the kitchen.

[SPEAKER_04]: I'm like, I just want my aunties to get along and that's sort of thing.

[SPEAKER_04]: So, yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Did you have a favorite moment from being on set?

[SPEAKER_02]: So many.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_04]: So there was a moment.

[SPEAKER_04]: So the film takes place in my character's house.

[SPEAKER_04]: So I gave a lot of family photos and that sort of thing to my production designer and he just kind of put it in places.

[SPEAKER_04]: So it was like in between shots when we were blocking and Lori the one who plays in Abu anti she was like oh that's so there's a photo of me and I and I'm like shaking the hand of the dean Robert and she was like oh that's my dad.

[SPEAKER_04]: I was like hi.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, like because I was like yeah, TV or film dad of like yeah, you're in character [SPEAKER_04]: And she was like, no, this is like really my dad.

[SPEAKER_04]: Like it was really her real-life stuff dad.

[SPEAKER_04]: And I just was so mind blown of how small the world was.

[SPEAKER_04]: I was like, what?

[SPEAKER_04]: I was like, that's so funny.

[SPEAKER_04]: Like this is like your real dad.

[SPEAKER_04]: So this is like a real, I'm like, this is so, I'm like, wow, big brain director.

[SPEAKER_04]: I'm like, wow, I was like, look at me, I didn't even know.

[SPEAKER_04]: So I thought that was really cute that I have like a real photo of her dad that's like just shown in the background on the film.

[SPEAKER_04]: Also the location we shot at is like the same place where Oprah shot her cooking show.

[SPEAKER_04]: So I like to share that fun fact.

[SPEAKER_04]: I remember when I was looking for locations.

[SPEAKER_04]: I was like, okay, if it's good enough for Oprah, it's good enough for me.

[SPEAKER_04]: So I was like, okay.

[SPEAKER_04]: And then we shot a food fight scene.

[SPEAKER_04]: So there's just a lot of dough and flour and like, you know, it was both stressful, but it was really fun and like seeing the two aunties like [SPEAKER_04]: So there's a scene where there's like a baking pan with like a bunch of dough and then she like flinges it and it was just it was just really fun to see her to see like how much it was just like we were little kids in the kitchen even though I'm like I want you to guys be angry like we're at war but it was just so it was so so fun so I don't know there are so many fun moments but those are the ones that come to mind like logistically on side yeah [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I was pretty much my whole second day.

[SPEAKER_04]: Well, it was the second half of the day because we like let up to it.

[SPEAKER_04]: So we shot pretty chronological which made sense because I wanted them at I wanted like all of us to [SPEAKER_04]: like layered, flower, and dough, and to get progressively messy, so we are fortunate that we are able scheduling wise issue pretty chronological, but it took like the second half day.

[SPEAKER_04]: And then the big, big food fight was the last shot of the day, so we can make like the big mess and everything.

[SPEAKER_04]: That was like logistically day up.

[SPEAKER_04]: And we didn't have that many shots, like, cause I...

[SPEAKER_04]: I'm a maximalist so we had like so much dough and so much flour and stuff so like when the food fight happened I'm like I'm like unreal like like everything I wanted every and we had like backups and stuff like that so I mean with that time money resources we had to live in a number of times we can actually do the full-fledged like food fight of it all yeah second half of the second day of shooting [SPEAKER_02]: Well, can you tell us if it's going to have getting any other festival play that you know over right now?

[SPEAKER_04]: No, I don't know over right now fingers crossed like programmers out there.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's available.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I hope to have more screenings in the future, but first one.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's very exciting.

[SPEAKER_02]: What do you think of dead center so far?

[SPEAKER_04]: that sonner is incredible.

[SPEAKER_04]: I've heard really great things about it.

[SPEAKER_04]: I know my producer Alex yet his film screen here two years ago or yeah two years ago and he spoke very highly of the festival and now that I'm here it's just it just feels very like like it doesn't feel like there's any clicks like people can just like go up to people pretty openly and people are really kind and I've made like new friends already that I feel like will be lifelong friends it's been two days not to like [SPEAKER_04]: they will be and going to their screenings tonight.

[SPEAKER_04]: So it's just been such a welcoming environment and it's just like the little things of like every event having food.

[SPEAKER_04]: I just love foods.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's like they just like have good food at all the places and drink tickets and I feel like it's just so organized while I've like just like this sort of parties and networking and the screening.

[SPEAKER_04]: Dad's on earth is been amazing.

[SPEAKER_04]: I am so thankful to be here.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, what is next?

[SPEAKER_02]: Do you have anything in the works after this that you would like to do that you're working on?

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, always.

[SPEAKER_04]: I'm always doing ten thousand things all the time.

[SPEAKER_04]: I think every artist is right.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, yeah, you're just that's the name of the game.

[SPEAKER_04]: I'm currently in the Sundance Need of Bob and the covert the shit.

[SPEAKER_04]: Shut your mouth.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's amazing.

[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.

[SPEAKER_02]: I've applied to that twice.

[SPEAKER_04]: I've applied, like, you know with all these labs, I never get it the first time.

[SPEAKER_04]: This one is maybe the fourth time or fit, you know?

[SPEAKER_04]: So this was like my first share, I got the interview and got it.

[SPEAKER_04]: So I am so over the moon, bought that.

[SPEAKER_04]: So that, like, I'm developing a feature script in that lab.

[SPEAKER_04]: And so it's really cool because I was in the imaginative features lab.

[SPEAKER_04]: where I first wrote it, then now at Sundance, revising it.

[SPEAKER_04]: I guess I can talk about it.

[SPEAKER_02]: If you want to, you don't have to.

[SPEAKER_02]: Let the save for later.

[SPEAKER_04]: OK, I'll see you for later.

[SPEAKER_02]: I bet you anything we're going to want to talk to you again.

[SPEAKER_02]: Dad's on her, especially finding out that she got into the lab.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: And what's crazy is Angela and I were an imaginative last week.

[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, yeah, I was there too.

[SPEAKER_04]: I was there.

[SPEAKER_04]: I was there because I was a part of it.

[SPEAKER_04]: They had like a features lab market.

[SPEAKER_04]: So they invited all the features along to go there and pitch.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's called grief camp and feature episodes.

[SPEAKER_04]: I'll talk more about it.

[SPEAKER_04]: But yeah, I was pitching my feature that I worked out at a imaginative and currently working on its undance there.

[SPEAKER_02]: And were you in the mall?

[SPEAKER_02]: And that room in the mall?

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Were you there?

[SPEAKER_02]: We were there.

[SPEAKER_04]: No!

[SPEAKER_04]: You didn't come to my booth.

[SPEAKER_02]: We didn't stay very long because we went for the opening day.

[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_02]: But then we had to go to another screening, I think.

[SPEAKER_04]: Oh yeah, there was a lot going on.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_04]: There was a funny atmosphere.

[SPEAKER_04]: I was just there.

[SPEAKER_04]: So like you, I was just up in Toronto.

[SPEAKER_04]: Now I'm going to Oklahoma.

[SPEAKER_02]: Isn't that crazy?

[SPEAKER_02]: That's not crazy.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that was my first time in Toronto.

[SPEAKER_02]: Toronto is something.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's like what I imagine New York to be.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's very cool.

[SPEAKER_04]: I love that place.

[SPEAKER_04]: And like the train from the airport.

[SPEAKER_04]: like convenience every like city should have like a train.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I took the lift.

[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, next time take the train.

[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it's like cheaper in really convenient.

[SPEAKER_04]: It just takes you to like union station to like downtown Toronto.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'll do that.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Wow.

[SPEAKER_02]: Crazy.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, two more questions.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: What are you watching, reading, listening to, consuming what, what inspiring you at the moment?

[SPEAKER_04]: Oh my gosh, okay, well, I'm gonna give a fake answer because my real answer is embarrassing.

[SPEAKER_04]: Maybe I should give my real answer.

[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, okay, so this isn't a fake answer, but this is like, you know, we're on a podcast, and this is documented.

[SPEAKER_04]: So when I'm looking back on June, twenty twenty five, I'm like, what?

[SPEAKER_04]: What do I want?

[SPEAKER_04]: So I left studio, like, jibbly, stuff, and like a movie that I've been wanting to see and I haven't seen, but most recently, it's seen as graveyard of the fireflies.

[SPEAKER_04]: And that has just opened my brain, have you seen it?

[SPEAKER_04]: I have not.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it's totally, I write for YA, but make it sad.

[SPEAKER_04]: And like, it's about like sibling grief and war.

[SPEAKER_04]: And I'm like, oh my gosh, this is like my new personality is that film.

[SPEAKER_04]: I love it's like obviously beautiful because it's hugely, and then like the story is just so like touching and beautiful.

[SPEAKER_04]: And yeah, so like that recent discovery is now my [SPEAKER_04]: whole new personality.

[SPEAKER_04]: I don't think I want to give my fake aid.

[SPEAKER_04]: I've been watching like reality TV.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it's trash, but I've also been watching like other stuff like I'm watching season two of the last of it.

[SPEAKER_04]: I try to keep up and then like the industry and stuff and they're all like really great.

[SPEAKER_04]: So that's all about balance.

[SPEAKER_04]: So I'm also watching you know my trashy reality TV.

[SPEAKER_02]: We need that in our lives.

[SPEAKER_02]: We do.

[SPEAKER_02]: And what advice would you give to your younger self?

[SPEAKER_02]: These are, we ask this to all the guests, but what advice would you give to your younger self?

[SPEAKER_04]: At a million answers for you, for all the other ones, and like the most, like the question that people always ask, I am...

What advice would I give to my younger self?

[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, I'm just like, you know, like, nah, you little Sabrina, uh, things take time, um, things take a lot of time.

[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, I feel like it's, it's, uh, when I was like, little, you just like see the Hollywood story, like the overnight success.

[SPEAKER_04]: That's what you think, but like in reality, it's just like, [SPEAKER_04]: planting seeds and it's all like tiny, tiny stops to make like your dreams of reality or like making a film or writing a screen.

[SPEAKER_04]: You know, that's sort of thing where we talk about labs.

[SPEAKER_04]: I'm like, I didn't get any of the ones I've gotten first try and it's just that things are just really competitive and artists objective and I think I want to say something profound but it's like I don't it's very tried.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's just like keep going and it's all the little steps and it's about like [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, you know what?

[SPEAKER_04]: Something that I feel like I've learned recently is we've been to two festivals so there's a lot of networking and talking to people and stuff.

[SPEAKER_04]: So I think finding what that means for me and for me it's like if I go to like one of the parties and if I meet one person like that's a win like I want because I like much prefer like talking to people more deeply than you know because I know [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, so I'm like, for me, that's what works.

[SPEAKER_04]: And I'm like, being okay with that.

[SPEAKER_04]: But I give you a messy answer.

[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_04]: I guess a bunch of things keep going.

[SPEAKER_04]: Your dreams are reality.

[SPEAKER_04]: Can be reality.

[SPEAKER_04]: This is my second act career.

[SPEAKER_04]: I was in tech because I wanted to make money and have a stable paycheck.

[SPEAKER_04]: But now that's not the case.

[SPEAKER_04]: in like pursuit of the dreams.

[SPEAKER_02]: So you feel you're compelled to be a storyteller.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I can relate to that.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_04]: You know what?

[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_04]: Here's my like succinct answer as I'm like me and your ring to find something.

[SPEAKER_04]: Follow my gut.

[SPEAKER_04]: I feel like I so often just like second guess myself so much.

[SPEAKER_04]: In, like, I think, like, this being my first film, I'm like, oh my gosh, like, what are other people doing?

[SPEAKER_04]: What are you doing?

[SPEAKER_04]: But there's no, there's no right answer.

[SPEAKER_04]: Like, everyone's path is so different.

[SPEAKER_04]: And that's what makes art art.

[SPEAKER_04]: And I think, like, for a long time, especially when I was younger, I'm like, I need to find the right way.

[SPEAKER_04]: What's the correct way?

[SPEAKER_04]: And then the correct way is, like, however, it's most fulfilling for you and whatever's the best way to tell the story.

[SPEAKER_04]: So, yeah, I feel like for me, and even like today, I'm like, follow my gut.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's just like less I can guessing.

[SPEAKER_04]: That's my meaning during answer.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's amazing.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think that's all I got.

[SPEAKER_02]: Sabrina, thank you so much for sitting in the waiting room.

[SPEAKER_02]: Clueless with me for forty-five minutes, almost two an hour.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it's like, um, I think my preferred way to starting all podcasts so I actually thank you.

[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, cool.

[SPEAKER_02]: Hey everyone, Matt Bars here at Dead Center.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm a costume filmmaker at the OK contemporary.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I've got a young fellow with me.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to let him introduce himself and tell us a little bit about himself.

[SPEAKER_01]: Hello, my name is Kyle Kouika Harris.

[SPEAKER_01]: I am the writer director of a film, a feature film called Reference.

[SPEAKER_01]: And the producer of a feature film called Anywhere.

[SPEAKER_01]: They're both having their role premieres at the twenty-five anniversary Dead Center Film Festival here in Oklahoma City.

[SPEAKER_02]: can tell us a little bit about I guess reverence and if you want to anywhere.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, sure.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, reverence is a movie.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm a writer at heart.

[SPEAKER_01]: I read in a lot of movies.

[SPEAKER_01]: It was a movie that I had written years ago called Dominion.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it was just too big of a budget to sort of pull off.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so I read, sort of looking for locations for it, you know, we ended up picking a little small town Oklahoma called Chandler.

[SPEAKER_01]: I was just going to work with us in all of our needs.

[SPEAKER_01]: So we ended up, I re-wrote it.

[SPEAKER_01]: title that reverence, basically the short summary log line of the film would be the circumstances behind a missing teenage girl spirals out of control when her traumatized father and a determined detective searched for answers in a small Oklahoma town.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's basically a small town missing persons thriller in the vein of like a mystic river or prisoners with Hugh Jackman [SPEAKER_01]: So I like those sort of thrillers that you think you haven't figured out, but it twists and turns and sometimes the answers were hidden in plain sight the whole time.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I was interested in doing a missing person's thriller and so the reverence was that movie for me.

[SPEAKER_01]: Funny enough with anywhere, the feature film anywhere.

[SPEAKER_01]: I had worked with Hayley McFarlane, who's the star of the film on my film out of exile.

[SPEAKER_01]: We've done a few years earlier.

[SPEAKER_01]: And the writer, director of the movie Anywhere, his name's Adam Seidel.

[SPEAKER_01]: and he's here he's going to be there for tonight the world premiere he was an executive producer on the film out of exile and we just had a great time making that film Adam was a writer and and he split me this script called anywhere and and I sent it to Haley and I was like hey you should read this you know as a female lead and [SPEAKER_01]: And she read it.

[SPEAKER_01]: She's like, this is terrifying.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think I want to do it.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so I called up Adam and I was like, hey man, you know, you helped me make my film.

[SPEAKER_01]: I want to help you make yours.

[SPEAKER_01]: We put that together.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so reverence, we shot reverence in December of twenty twenty three into January of twenty twenty four.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then literally two months later, like in middle of March, we started filming anywhere.

[SPEAKER_01]: And we shot them both here in Oklahoma.

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, Chandler and reverence, we shot in Chandler.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then we shot anywhere, a lot of it in Spencer, Oklahoma City, Jones, Choctaw, Area.

[SPEAKER_02]: Channel is pretty, they're pretty film friendly, aren't they?

[SPEAKER_02]: Have you shot other stuff?

[SPEAKER_01]: there.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I shot like one day on out of exile in Chandler.

[SPEAKER_01]: The reason why we ended up going with Chandler, Oklahoma, on reverence was because my producer and partner, Jacob Ryan Snobbel, he's from Chandler.

[SPEAKER_01]: And the movie had a lot of locations.

[SPEAKER_01]: So reverence has a lot of like over forty locations.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you're doing a small indie, you know how like, you don't get a lot of time.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so we needed a place that we could call home [SPEAKER_01]: like production office home and then jump over here and jump across the street to the Lincoln County Sheriff's Office or go next door to the insurance company or go down the road to the OSBI office and I don't think a lot of film traffic is come through there so they were accommodating in the sense that they were excited that we were coming there.

[SPEAKER_01]: Jacob was producing it and they opened their doors to us and I mean it was [SPEAKER_01]: We would have been able to make the movie without Chandler Oklahoma.

[SPEAKER_01]: This is what that was.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: It worked out great though, so.

[SPEAKER_02]: How is producing, how were the stresses of producing different from the stresses of directing?

[SPEAKER_02]: Were you on set for anywhere?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Me as a producer, I feel like for me, I'm the guy that kind of puts together all the pieces in some ways.

[SPEAKER_01]: Find the material, put the people together, hire the crew members, go out, find the locations, just put it all together, you know, do all the deals and stuff like that.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so, and then Jacob, my producing partner, and then Madison Bullock, who's the other producer on the film, we all just do different things, you know, and some of Jacob and my handle contracts with SAG and the unions and stuff like that, and rebate paperwork and all that stuff, [SPEAKER_01]: You know, with me, like, I'm more like a boots on the ground producer.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm there every day on set.

[SPEAKER_01]: Marathon, you know, it's again, another low budget Indian.

[SPEAKER_01]: We didn't have a big grip and electric truck.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I had a truck with a hitch.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so I'm driving a U haul truck, you know, trailer full of gear every day to set, you know, and setting up every day.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I had to be there.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I wanted to be there.

[SPEAKER_01]: But writing and directing is, obviously I prefer writing and directing because [SPEAKER_01]: I've just been doing that for thirteen years and I had the vision in my head as I'm writing it so I sort of as I'm writing it I know the intention behind the words and I talk to actors and crew members but also when I'm writing it I sort of write it as a blueprint for the [SPEAKER_01]: maybe store boards or shot lists or break downs and set ups for your day.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so I went to school to be a D.P.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I sort of already know how to prep the day as far as camera.

[SPEAKER_01]: When you're producing, it's a little different because because somebody else is words and you're not real sure the vision of what they're going but you try to help them out and stuff like that and just back it creatively.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I prefer writing and directing but I love producing.

[SPEAKER_01]: I love bringing stories to life and helping people get their movies made.

[SPEAKER_01]: Nice.

[SPEAKER_02]: I've been talking about these collaborators.

[SPEAKER_02]: I've been, I've been told, as a young filmmaker, to stick with these willing collaborators, and you've worked with quite a few of the same people.

[SPEAKER_02]: Can you tell me about those relationships a little bit more?

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I know one of them's a dang icon this year.

[SPEAKER_01]: Adam Hampton, yes, he's an icon, and Hayley McFarland is an icon this year.

[SPEAKER_01]: So this is my second movie with her.

[SPEAKER_01]: And me and Adam Hampton, we started making movies, I guess, in twenty seventeen, we did a proof of concept for a feature film I wrote.

[SPEAKER_01]: It just never got made, but he liked what I written, and we just started a communication.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I really, what I really like about Adam is, [SPEAKER_01]: we can talk at least once a week and it's not we talk about movies but we don't it's not about auditioning it's not it's not the things that you know sometimes filmmaking can get into you can get down in the weeds or you know with things and and sometimes you know you don't get a lot of time to work with actors they show up on the side of the day of in years and you're just moving because they're coming from out town busy schedules and abilities but like with someone like Adam [SPEAKER_01]: we can discuss and just talk about things.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so I know his spirit and his temperament and his disposition.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so it helps when I'm writing projects, I sort of know what we're going with the story and with the characters.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that's so valuable because when you get to the set, you don't have to spend all that time trying to help the actor understand that.

[SPEAKER_02]: You have the short hand.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you have the short hand and we talk about it for months and advance.

[SPEAKER_01]: And even without a vexile, he was a melody in that.

[SPEAKER_01]: And we had twenty days and there's bank robbery scenes with multiple people with blanks and guns and stunts.

[SPEAKER_01]: And you don't have a lot of time.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, working with these actors like Adam Hampton and Kyle J.

G.

Pinnery, Wilson Davis, those guys prepped with me for three months before filming started every once a week.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like on Thursday evening for three hours, we'd go to the gun range and just practice and get [SPEAKER_01]: to where they were able to maneuver and communicate with just signals, hand signals, and eyes, and without speaking, and we would do mock, sort of, like, cone robberies of, like, how they're going to move around the vehicles.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so we got on the set the day on the day of, and we had a producer from LA had never seen us do any of this stuff.

[SPEAKER_01]: All we do is get there in the camera, just moves around it, because they know they know the movements.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so it's just the blocking is perfect.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so we're able to make our days and the movies become what they are.

[SPEAKER_01]: To go further with that is, I always tell people, young filmmakers too.

[SPEAKER_01]: If you're by yourself in this industry, you're going to be pushing a rock uphill trying to convince people.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that's hard.

[SPEAKER_01]: For whatever reason, I feel like I built a really solid team of people around me when I first began.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I wouldn't be here now if it wasn't for them.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's editors, that's composers, actors, cameramen, producers, makeup artists, all the above.

[SPEAKER_01]: And when you meet them, you have a communication with them and maybe they understand your sensibilities and your visions for things.

[SPEAKER_01]: And they have similar sensibilities.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that way, you know, if nothing against like comedians or comedy, I don't write a lot of comedy stuff, but it's like if you make a thriller, but your composer is more of a comedian, the sensibilities may not align there.

[SPEAKER_01]: So you have to find [SPEAKER_01]: a way to align the sensibilities and then it's pretty much pretty easy.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I think I always tell young filmmakers to build your team.

[SPEAKER_01]: Don't be that person by yourself trying to do it all.

[SPEAKER_01]: Build your team and grow together.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that's just what I've done with it.

[SPEAKER_01]: My actors and everybody and hopefully I get to continue that.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you mentioned all of the locking.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, do you have a favorite moment on reverence on set?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, there's so many fun ones.

[SPEAKER_01]: In the last day of filming was a scene we shot, it's set in Syria.

[SPEAKER_01]: So flashback scenes that happened throughout the film, to this one day in this moment in Syria, ten years before the film starts.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so you get little snippets of it throughout the film.

[SPEAKER_01]: And we shot that in one day and we shot it in an abandoned silo in Shawnee, Oklahoma.

[SPEAKER_01]: In the tornado it hit it.

[SPEAKER_01]: and kind of destroyed it, but it was still the foundation was still sound and we set dressed it to look like Syria and we brought in goats and just the whole thing and it was just crazy.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's just crazy, absurd, but we pulled it off and that was an interesting day.

[SPEAKER_01]: We had maybe seals on set with us and okay, see tactical people and [SPEAKER_01]: X-Rangers and it was just a whole thing, you know, and Danny Boyle, you'll conner from House of Pain, was one of the guys who's like they're Captain Commander.

[SPEAKER_01]: But, and then there's another day that felt very true detective season three to me, and it's when in the film, when the detective truly, who's the co-leader of the story, she's pursuing a lead, and one of the red herrings in the film, and they go see this guy named Byron Ogden, who they believe is [SPEAKER_01]: kidnapped the girl.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's just a very haunting scene and that we shot with a like a big fence separator and the camera doesn't reveal him until the end of the scene and it was like right at dusk and the shadows and the tree would come across his face and it was just [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, it was just a beautiful, it couldn't have been a better moment to shoot that scene.

[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, those are days listed out for me, Robinson.

[SPEAKER_02]: Nice.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, you got these two coming out, well, premiering, you know, at that center, what's next, project-wise, what's coming up.

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, so reverence in anywhere or doing it's their festival tours.

[SPEAKER_01]: We just sold reverence to Saban.

[SPEAKER_01]: Congratulations.

[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.

[SPEAKER_01]: That'll be coming out hopefully in the year.

[SPEAKER_01]: When we finished anywhere last April, we wrapped, and then three weeks later I started a movie called The Huntsman, and it was based off of a novel, and I co-wrote and directed that movie with Garrett Dillahund and Sean Ashmore, Elizabeth Mitchell, Jesse Schram, [SPEAKER_01]: And so we did that movie, I directed that.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then we produced a movie called Rated in November of last year, writer director John Fortson from LA and his daughter Abby Fortson, who was Paul Rudd's daughter in the Aunt Man movies.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so we made that movie, I produced that with them.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then we just finished a movie in El Reno in March.

[SPEAKER_01]: called Pale Knight and it's a nineteen thirty's period drama and uh...

so we finished that one and then since then it i i mean i could sit here and say all this stuff i've got going on but it i mean there's writing jobs we've got some writing jobs at thunder road we got a couple of novels we got the rights to jerky boys movie oh nice so we're we're in the early stages of partnering with OPE and L.A.

[SPEAKER_01]: on that we also got the temporary rights to a novel called the taking of jimima boon [SPEAKER_01]: about Daniel Boone's daughter being kidnapped, and two weeks after the signing of the Declaration of Independence, and so we're looking to take that out.

[SPEAKER_01]: We have a series Bible on a pilot written for it, and I did that.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it looks like I'm going to Thailand to shoot an action film in November.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, probably in that film right now, I'm doing schedules and going out to talent because there's something that you wrote.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I co-wrote it with a writer named Don Roth, Randy Wayne and tell you Bellah at Rebellion Films and Tulsa, producing it.

[SPEAKER_01]: And me and Randy, you know, I'm an Oklahoma City and he's a Tulsa guy and we've been circling each other for years and [SPEAKER_01]: and it just happened to work out the time he said hey you know you got to know you do military stuff and I got this military action you know thing and would you take a look at it now are you available and I was like yeah and I read it and I loved it and we did a did a director's draft on it and now we're out to cast and you know maybe we'll go in Thailand in November and shoot that movie so that is really that's amazing [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, just always always have something going on to that's something that I was told in the film school or specifically for screenwriting that said you want to have at least three projects going like six or seven.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, well, and they're all just sort of doing their own thing and you've got to just keep that momentum pushing forward and [SPEAKER_01]: and whichever one unlocks, you know, whichever one has the most gravity, that's when you'll go do then and then maybe it unlocks this other piece over here and then you can finish that thing on and I'm going to later on that one and it staggers, but you kind of have to keep it going, you know, because [SPEAKER_01]: you never know there's highs and lows in this industry and to make one film you know just one film and sit with it for two years I mean that's there's nothing wrong with that but it's it can be like for me I like the work and I like the momentum of it and meeting people and working together so I I like to [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I don't want to sit, I don't want to be at home in my apartment, pacing, wondering, when am I going to get my next chance?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm always trying to, like, just keep moving and putting people together and trying to get things made.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, do you have time to watch anything or read or what are you consuming right now?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I read every day.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm a, I'm a health person.

[SPEAKER_01]: I like to get on the treadmill and I get on the treadmill literally every day and I walk two miles and I'll read on my Kindle.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, like, I read books non-stop, but I love Don Wenzel, and I love a current McCarthy, and some of this older novels, and I'm reading a lot of stuff right now.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm reading the new book by Dan Brown, right now.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, I read a lot, and I read a lot of screenplays, and I write a lot of screenplays.

[SPEAKER_01]: Probably written four or five screenplays this year.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not lying when I say that.

[SPEAKER_01]: I have three writing jobs, and then two that I wrote in January, [SPEAKER_01]: And it's just I'm always writing so every day I have like a three hour routine and early in the morning but after coffee and I write then the afternoon's I'm reading and then every night around maybe eight p.m.

[SPEAKER_01]: we watch a movie so either it's a TV series or a movie every night and [SPEAKER_01]: And if it's not a new film, then it's something I revisit, it's older, and that's maybe a comparable to something I'm working on, just to be in that total world.

[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, I find time to do that.

[SPEAKER_02]: You have to, especially with writing, you have to write every day.

[SPEAKER_02]: If you've been, if it's just for like, thirty minutes, twenty minutes, three hours, whatever you can get in.

[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, that's what makes you a better writer.

[SPEAKER_01]: You have to find your [SPEAKER_01]: your flow state you know you gotta find the electricity in it and I feel like it's hard for me to ride if I'm well I got an hour this afternoon maybe I'll try to do it then I think it takes me an hour just to kind of get into the flow station then once you're there you're there for two or three hours and you're just you know [SPEAKER_01]: to, you know, pushing that rock uphill with a story and maybe I write for three hours in the last hour I edit, you know, what I wrote.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I think you have to do it, you have to make those schedules for yourself and you have to stick with them, just like exercise or a job.

[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, last question.

[SPEAKER_02]: And you may have already answered this, but what advice would you give your younger self?

[SPEAKER_01]: Ooh.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm I'm forty two now.

[SPEAKER_01]: I started a little later.

[SPEAKER_01]: I started in twenty thirteen so I was already in my early thirties and sometimes I hear I talk to young filmmakers and they're you know early twenties and they're just getting started and they're already so talented and I'm like just [SPEAKER_01]: don't be in a hurry.

[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like maybe I was in a hurry or I couldn't reconcile the time that took to do things sometimes.

[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like if your intentions are pure and true, [SPEAKER_01]: And you really love what you do, like, really, really love it.

[SPEAKER_01]: And you're not in it for the vanity or the money or, you know, the Facebook likes.

[SPEAKER_01]: If you really love storytelling and you, and you, and you put your heart into it.

[SPEAKER_01]: It will, the doors will open for you.

[SPEAKER_01]: It will.

[SPEAKER_01]: It will.

[SPEAKER_01]: But you got to stick with it.

[SPEAKER_01]: And because nobody's waking up today in LA and saying, I got to go finance this Kyle guys movie.

[SPEAKER_01]: It just doesn't happen.

[SPEAKER_01]: So you have to take charge of your own sort of career.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I didn't maybe know that at first.

[SPEAKER_01]: I thought, if I write a really good screenplay, someone's going to buy it.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to make a lot of money.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then my career's just gone.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's just, it'll just continue.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I learned quick after I got in LA that it's not the case and that every time you do a film Whether it's a two and a half million dollar movie with famous actors [SPEAKER_01]: When that movie comes out, still nobody's calling you.

[SPEAKER_01]: And you start all over again every time.

[SPEAKER_01]: And as long as you can kind of get your mind around that, understand that you have to love what you do, that you're not looking for a quick way to get there or a quick success story.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't believe that's true now.

[SPEAKER_01]: So success is what you kind of make of it.

[SPEAKER_01]: And you just got to love the journey and what you're doing.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I would say to tell people just to work hard, work, stay in the shadows.

[SPEAKER_01]: Don't let them see you come.

[SPEAKER_01]: I remember coming to that's our ten years ago or back in twenty fifteen I had a short film here and I remember going to panels and seeing some people that I looked up to and I thought man if I could just get there one day and then here I am ten years later and I've got a couple of feature films and but I did I did I get there you know I don't know but I'm making feature films now and I have a pipeline of doing it you know then five features in the last year and a half so it's [SPEAKER_01]: It just keeps, I would say, build your team, be patient, work harder than everybody else.

[SPEAKER_01]: Don't let them, don't tell everybody what you're doing, just work for the shadows and work for yourself.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it'll happen for you.

[SPEAKER_01]: You just, you just gotta really love what you do.

[SPEAKER_02]: Amazing.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, thank you.

[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you, sir.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you got, thank you for having me.

[SPEAKER_02]: Hey everyone, Matt here at Dead Center and I'm sitting with a very special filmmaker and I'm going to let her introduce herself and tell us a little bit about herself.

[SPEAKER_00]: Hi everyone.

[SPEAKER_00]: My name is Lauren Waters.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm a Cherokee and Kyle a filmmaker.

[SPEAKER_00]: I live in Tulsa, Oklahoma.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is my third Dead Center with a short documentary film screening and I'm really excited to have this conversation with you today.

[SPEAKER_00]: So thank you for having me.

[SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, we talked to you last year.

[SPEAKER_02]: And so you've been pretty busy since then.

[SPEAKER_02]: Can you tell us what's what you've been up to in the meantime?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, last year I had a film called Meet Me at the Creek at Dead Center.

[SPEAKER_00]: I guess in between that dead center in this dead center.

[SPEAKER_00]: I was making a short documentary film called Tiger.

[SPEAKER_00]: that premiered at Sundance this year, and so I'm excited to have a screen here for the Oklahoma Premier.

[SPEAKER_00]: I also did background casting for the lowdown, Sterlin Harjo's new show, and then, you know, just working on other projects here and there, and it's kept me busy for sure.

[SPEAKER_02]: And it played itself by Southwest too.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, Southwest too, which was really fun.

[SPEAKER_00]: It was fun to go down to Austin and ride scooters everywhere and get to go to the parties where open for everybody to go to, so it was super fun.

[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, can you tell us about the genesis of your project?

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm at Danon Reservation Dogs.

[SPEAKER_00]: She is an incredible painter and also just an elder who [SPEAKER_00]: No, there's a lot of Muscovicry Kims and a lot about the culture and the language and Sterlin wanted her on the show.

[SPEAKER_00]: I reached out to her and we just instantly became friends because she's just such a kind, eclectic human and has a huge personality and she would help me find people for background and you know, whenever we met in person, we just really were drawn to each other.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I went to go help her clean up her art gallery.

[SPEAKER_00]: It was a mess and [SPEAKER_00]: helped to do that, just to make it more presentable, and after the show was over.

[SPEAKER_00]: And just would sit and talk with her, and I was just surprised at her life story as a very up and down.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I was surprised that nobody had made a film about her.

[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't really have a full intention of making a film about the Tiger family until it kind of just happened.

[SPEAKER_00]: My partner had a camera package in between jobs, basically, like in Alexa, many just sitting in our house for a week.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, we probably should take advantage of this.

[SPEAKER_00]: We called up Dana, and then Dana was like, yeah, come, come to Muscogee.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so we went and shot for maybe two or three hours.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that was the first time that they had been so screening t-shirts since, nineteen ninety.

[SPEAKER_00]: And the tiger art gallery was as huge, successful.

[SPEAKER_00]: screen printing business and also printing art.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like Jerome Tigers art, Danas art, Chris Tigers art, Johnny Tiger Jr., like the whole family.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so just knowing that this was being brought back, we knew that it was important to build this story around that moment.

[SPEAKER_02]: Why should people see this?

[SPEAKER_00]: I think that this film resonates with wider audiences and maybe just the indigenous community because it's a story about [SPEAKER_00]: grief and about human experience and how people have such a strong impact on what we do and how we live our lives even though they're not here anymore.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's a really spiritual film and I think it's also like it's really sad in some parts but then also I feel like at the end you're feeling kind of pumped up like you're feeling excited about what's next and I think that for Dana you know this film she tells me like I prayed for you like I prayed for this film [SPEAKER_00]: even though she didn't really know exactly who I was or anything me specifically but just more about something happening for the gallery.

[SPEAKER_00]: And the shirts mean a lot to me and I think really it's like an expression of our people's art and wearable art and also [SPEAKER_00]: just the tiger art gallery really inspired me to know that they were so successful in the eighties because nothing like that had existed like native people being self-affluent wasn't a thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: So to know that you could be successful off your art and share that with people and I thought it was really inspiring.

[SPEAKER_02]: In the documentary, she reveals early on that she has Parkinson's.

[SPEAKER_02]: It really affected me quite a bit because my dad, he passed away from complications of Parkinson's disease.

[SPEAKER_02]: He fought it for about five years, I think.

[SPEAKER_02]: So it was really for me very inspiring to see her attitude, not just with her reflection, but with everything she's gone through leading up to that.

[SPEAKER_02]: Very, very inspiring.

[SPEAKER_02]: and there's so much more about it like to see it and I've talked about this on the podcast which is see it projected to see it with an audience just like you said like to feeling energized after watching this like hearing the music and you see it with an audience several times what was your reaction [SPEAKER_02]: How did that make you, how did you, did you, were you looking for a reaction and then how, what did, how did you feel after hearing the response?

[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.

[SPEAKER_02]: A response says.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I guess I had no idea how people would respond to it because we only shared it with very, very few people before the premiere.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so when we premiered at Hudson Dance, I didn't cry when we got in, but I cried when we were screening.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Because I was like, holy shit.

[SPEAKER_00]: I can't believe this is happening.

[SPEAKER_00]: really you know her father was murdered or I had had died from an accidental gunshot wound when she was five and we revealed that in the beginning as well but I didn't want that to be I wanted that to be more like a still moment rather than like a super sad moment and I knew that Chris dying [SPEAKER_00]: was more so the, and this is spoiler alert.

[SPEAKER_00]: I guess for people who haven't seen it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Sorry.

[SPEAKER_00]: I really wanted that moment to be more of the, the emotional part because that links you back to why they stop screening t-shirts and really, you know, what separated their family for a long time.

[SPEAKER_00]: Then I just, I don't know, I think the thing that's really funny is hearing what people laugh at too, because there's like little bits of comedy in there where Dan is like talking about her chickens and she's also talks about like getting married and in that moment for her and so I'm like, I was laughing when I saw that.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm like, I hope other people would laugh and it is like people do laugh which I appreciate.

[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, I think with this film and with a lot of my work, I really just want people to feel inspired and to feel [SPEAKER_00]: good leaving the theater and after watching the film because there is so much devastation and things that we go through but it's not all of it but it does shape our decisions and how we move forward and yeah I didn't want this to be a film about Dan as Parkinson's though that is an element of her journey and her challenge so we just I just really wanted to get that out of the way like in the beginning okay we know that she as Parkinson's and then we can move on there was a lot of [SPEAKER_02]: Well, video footage, there's photographs, you shot, new footage.

[SPEAKER_02]: How long did it take you to put all of this, like, from conception to editing?

[SPEAKER_02]: How long did this take?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well, we didn't, at the beginning shoot for full days.

[SPEAKER_00]: We only shot for a couple hours at a time.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'd say maybe six hours of footage or less than that in the beginning.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then that was in October.

[SPEAKER_00]: Then we didn't do Robert, Robert, my partner, cinematographer, he cut together a little sizzle to try to get some interest or maybe some funding that didn't really happen, which is fine.

[SPEAKER_00]: Then we went back in May and had two full shooting days and then two smaller pickups.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we were done in less than a year, it was like eleven months, which to me is a really quick turnaround.

[SPEAKER_00]: But to some people, I know that it's not, but I think that having that more of that time to [SPEAKER_00]: Think about what really is the story and how do we craft this in a way where we're fitting all of Dana's family members in thirteen minutes like how do you do that and how do you fit in this story about the gallery and about the business in that as well.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I dug through her house.

[SPEAKER_00]: She keeps everything because the you know family of artists nothing goes in the trash.

[SPEAKER_00]: It was funny this is like a side story.

[SPEAKER_00]: but she just like a month ago pulled out a original art piece of hers and it's a naked photo or naked painting that she did of herself and on the back is Chris's drawing of a playboy bunny and I'm like okay like you really do keep everything but anyways I found a real of like four hundred foot eight millimeter footage had no idea what was on it but we [SPEAKER_00]: went ahead and got it scanned just to see.

[SPEAKER_00]: And of course, it was the gold mine of footage that I think this film, it just, it just really made the film because they get to see Chris.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's a super young age and you get to see Lisa and how they interact in Dana.

[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, I just feel like we were really searching for anything from that time period to really supplement like the current [SPEAKER_00]: footage of Dana that we were getting the portraits of her, you know, with her family and then the reflection type portrait shots.

[SPEAKER_02]: This thing, it's been, it's been, it's been some awards.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like, like, what, what all has it received?

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, man.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think, um, I can't, I was like, today is like six or seven awards, but we've gotten, um, short film special jury award for directing at Sundance, um, and then [SPEAKER_00]: which doesn't Oscar qualifies but we did get an Oscar qualifying award for best short documentary at San Luis Obispo Festival in California.

[SPEAKER_00]: We've gotten two other short best short documentaries and then one of the fun ones we got was [SPEAKER_00]: Was it a aesthetic audacity from River Run, which then they were like, this film is aesthetically audaciously aesthetic or whatever.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it was like, that's fun.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, okay.

[SPEAKER_00]: And Dan is like, that's me.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's me's an artist.

[SPEAKER_00]: And like, yeah, yeah, for sure.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm really grateful, had no idea that it was gonna do so well.

[SPEAKER_00]: I really just wanted to make something that [SPEAKER_00]: felt like Dana and every shot and something that I liked, you know, and that I wanted to see on screen.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I was hoping that other people could resonate with that as well.

[SPEAKER_02]: Do you have a favorite moment from shooting?

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, I mean, there was a lot of things that we went through on the shoot.

[SPEAKER_00]: Dana's house doesn't have AC, so it was very hot in some parts of the house.

[SPEAKER_00]: We also got chiggers during this time.

[SPEAKER_00]: So that was a fun for the crew.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like after it was me, me, my partner, and then we had two other people and we're like, did you get chiggers too?

[SPEAKER_00]: Or like, yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: But hey, it makes us stronger.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then Dana's pool is which we conducted her interview over the top of the diving board on her pool.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's actually not a pool now, it's a pond.

[SPEAKER_00]: So there's like generations of goldfish in this pond, you know?

[SPEAKER_00]: And so I remember we were [SPEAKER_00]: I was walking around the pool and there was a like a log sticking out and there was a giant toe or frog or something like sitting on this log and I was like, ugh, such an ugly frog and then it goes like literally screamed at me and then jumped in the water and we were just all dying laughing.

[SPEAKER_00]: We were like, well, you know, got pissed off that you were talking bad about it and I'm like, yeah, I mean true.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is like a living organism of a pool that Dana like nurtures and loves and like she [SPEAKER_00]: You know, you can see that when the fish is swimming all around her when she's on the diving board and the connection that she has with her chickens.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, this is her, this is her safe space.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is her home and it has been for now generations, which is really cool.

[SPEAKER_02]: And she was at South by Southwest.

[SPEAKER_02]: Is she here for this screening?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, she's going to be here today, which I'm super excited about.

[SPEAKER_02]: Wow, it's amazing.

[SPEAKER_02]: I guess maybe we might try to ask her, but what does she think of it?

[SPEAKER_00]: I asked her once, I'm like, how does it feel seeing yourself on screen and like listening to yourself talk like all the time?

[SPEAKER_00]: She's like, oh, I love it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, she's obsessed with it.

[SPEAKER_00]: And she's like, I'm a movie star.

[SPEAKER_00]: It tells everyone, I'm a movie star.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so I'm glad that that's how she treats it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Because it's like, this is her moment.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is her time to shine.

[SPEAKER_00]: She gets to sell her art.

[SPEAKER_00]: And she doesn't like that I make her talk sometimes.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I'm like, yeah, she's not to stand up there and look pretty.

[SPEAKER_00]: But she does get the deva treatment.

[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, it's been fun.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's been really fun.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, what's next for water's media?

[SPEAKER_02]: Is that your production company?

[SPEAKER_02]: You guys, you're busy.

[SPEAKER_02]: You just did casting on the low down.

[SPEAKER_02]: And we're doing the background for that or in charge of background for that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so water's media, I think we're about three years now in the making.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, a lot, our big part of our focus is doing background casting.

[SPEAKER_00]: We've built a really big database, which is exciting.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't think really has existed until so before.

[SPEAKER_00]: So there's that part of things.

[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like I dive into that about half of the year.

[SPEAKER_00]: But then, you know, I support other short documentaries through, you know, EP, or gear, or consulting, or really whatever I can help with producing wise that separate from my own work.

[SPEAKER_00]: With Tiger, you know, it's on the festival circuit.

[SPEAKER_00]: you know, maybe we'll try to do an Oscar run later this year.

[SPEAKER_00]: I've also, I really, my, how I see my career going is I really want to dive into narrative and I want to see, you know, what that's like for me.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I've written a short script shooting it in the fall and have the support of Tulsa crew behind me, which is amazing.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it is loosely inspired by the Tiger family and really just wanting to get a rep in and, you know, one of the, some of the best advice I got [SPEAKER_00]: about this script and this just making a film in general was from Sterlin, Harjo, and he was like, don't focus on making it the best thing you've ever made, like, just make it, and I'm like, yeah, because I feel like we can get in our own way when I'm just like, oh, how do I make this better than my last film or how do I, you know, make sure that it gets into film festivals or whatever it is, and I'm just like, no, I just need to make it.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so, you know, I hope to grow water as media and there's a lot of things that come my way.

[SPEAKER_00]: that I'm trying to pass off to other people and give them opportunities and, you know, water's media can still help and produce.

[SPEAKER_00]: But that's, that's the goal, you know?

[SPEAKER_02]: Because you have a short, you're produced, you produce.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, produced a short, that's here too.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, I just want to try to help support and grow the community of filmmakers and because they're all great projects that are coming my way, it's just like I'm only one person and there's so many talented people in Tulsa that can take on these projects.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so yeah, the hope is to grow water's media and be able to have multiple things in the fire at once, which is happening now, but I think on a bigger scale.

[SPEAKER_02]: We'll do you have time to read anything, watch anything, consume what do you consume in your free time?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: The free time that you have.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, exactly.

[SPEAKER_00]: I like to get on, well, since I'm writing a short and making a short, I've been going on Vimeo and watching all the staff picks, which is fun.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's cool to see, you know, because Vimeo will go around to all the festivals and pick staff picks, then you probably would never see in any other [SPEAKER_00]: setting or circumstance.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I love seeing like what other creatives are doing that may not be like in the mainstream.

[SPEAKER_00]: So that's that's honestly what I focus a lot of my time on and then I listen to a lot of like I don't know.

[SPEAKER_00]: When I watch a film I'll go listen to the podcast about it where they interview the director talk about the script and I've also just been listening to like different random podcasts.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I always try to gear it towards how can I grow myself as a storyteller?

[SPEAKER_00]: which maybe is like the workaholic in me.

[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, and no, I haven't really had much time to read, honestly.

[SPEAKER_00]: The book that I have been picking up the last few months is called Wandering Stars by Tommy Orange.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm almost done with that.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's a follow up to his first book there there, which they've been trying to make it into a feature.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I don't know if I'll ever happen, but I do, you know, he's written novels and he's now writing screenplays.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's cool to see his journey as a writer and now a filmmaker like screenplay.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, making screenplays, it's really cool.

[SPEAKER_02]: And last question, what advice would you give to your younger self?

[SPEAKER_00]: I think for me, like I had a really hard time putting myself first for a long time.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think I just had a lot of self-doubt and really didn't believe in myself [SPEAKER_00]: that I could direct and that I could do this.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so I was really shy in the beginning and was putting other people before me.

[SPEAKER_00]: And now I feel like, I'm a lot better at making sure that my needs are met.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that would just tell myself, it's okay to focus on yourself.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's okay to make decisions that are best for you.

[SPEAKER_00]: While keeping everyone else in mind, but I think so often we can neglect our own needs and wants.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, just like getting out of your own way and just do the thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I have to keep telling myself that too, like making this next film.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just like, oh, man, it's so hard.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's hard to make films.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's it's work.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's in same work and creativity and and self doubt and [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, you have to be an accountant, you have to be a business person, you have to be a, you know, great at social skills.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like there's so many things you have to be as it to be like a good quote unquote filmmaker.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I, you know, I just remind myself like why I'm doing it and it's for the community and I'm just so grateful that I get to work full time in this industry and live in Tulsa.

[SPEAKER_00]: So that's, it's a huge privilege.

[SPEAKER_02]: Excellent.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, thank you.

[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for the film, the film's beautiful.

[SPEAKER_02]: I love it.

[SPEAKER_02]: And thanks for your time.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, thank you.

[SPEAKER_00]: The real indigenous cinema podcast.

[SPEAKER_00]: Check it out.

[SPEAKER_00]: I did listen to the one that you guys did right after Sundance.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's so amazing to like listen to you guys talk about all the films and talk about Tiger and yeah, I just honored that you all resonate with the work and I'm excited to see what you guys do next.

[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.