[SPEAKER_02]: Pugulate FCU Vunga, Angela starts.

[SPEAKER_02]: I almost feel like I should use my full inupiac introduction today, but it takes a while.

[SPEAKER_02]: Because we're talking about blood and myth, which is a documentary that is said in my neck of the woods in cuts, cuts of you.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I've got a couple of my hosts with me if you'll introduce yourself.

[SPEAKER_00]: Meduica, this is sunrise.

[SPEAKER_02]: Hey everyone, it's Monica.

[SPEAKER_02]: So we're talking about blood and myth, which is based on an audible, do they call them books with audible program?

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's recording maybe.

[SPEAKER_02]: Right, about Teddy Kyle Smith.

[SPEAKER_01]: Do you know what it's called?

[SPEAKER_01]: I thought it was called midnight sun.

[SPEAKER_01]: It is S.O.S.O.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's midnight sun, you know.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, but it's S.O.N.

[SPEAKER_01]: Uh-huh, okay.

[SPEAKER_01]: Sorry, everyone.

[SPEAKER_01]: All right, let's see what they call it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they just call it an audible original and it's not a book, he didn't write a book because it's got lots of interviews with people and stuff like that.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I think we can safely call it a podcast and called midnight sun, an audible original podcast.

[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so today we're talking about, oh shoot, what is it called?

[SPEAKER_00]: What do you want to call?

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm a blood man.

[SPEAKER_00]: Start over.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's like a midnight sun stick in my head.

[SPEAKER_02]: Today we're talking about blood in myth, which is a documentary on Hulu that is based on a audible original podcast called Midnight Sun, SO in, and it explores the [SPEAKER_02]: case of Teddy Kyle Smith, who many of us remember from on this on the ice.

[SPEAKER_02]: He's a new beck and his family, I guess, is from Cotsview and there's been some unexplained.

[SPEAKER_02]: There's an unexplained death and then he was on the run and then he found a cabin which is not unusual to cover there and then shot the two guys that showed up and now he's in jail for a attempted murder.

[SPEAKER_02]: but the thing that stands out is that his defense was that he was being told what to do by the inocons.

[SPEAKER_02]: And these are the northern lip people.

[SPEAKER_02]: What are they called?

[SPEAKER_02]: Southeastern tribes.

[SPEAKER_02]: Ninnapies.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that's what Camanchi say.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: No, no, no.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: So, little people exist coexist with us everywhere.

[SPEAKER_02]: My grandmother talked about him.

[SPEAKER_02]: My Choctock grandmother talked about him.

[SPEAKER_02]: Camanchi's apparently talked about him.

[SPEAKER_02]: I've read.

[SPEAKER_02]: in angeline bullies books about the little people.

[SPEAKER_02]: So they are here.

[SPEAKER_02]: They exist.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think there's any doubt amongst us that this is it.

[SPEAKER_02]: But this is the first time that using them as a defense has been used in the court system.

[SPEAKER_02]: And what my big takeaway when I first read about this was that the, what is it?

[SPEAKER_02]: The indigenous defense fund or something like that stepped in saying that this can be used as a defense.

[SPEAKER_02]: And it got into the legal system, he was convicted his jury of peers still convicted him, and he is now in jail.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm serving at 99-year term, although in prison.

[SPEAKER_02]: in prison because Alaska does not have the death penalty which kind of surprises me to be honest but oh yeah, things fun against the Native American rights fund that was chiming in on his defense.

[SPEAKER_02]: So Mr.

Dominic Jr.

[SPEAKER_02]: has created this documentary film that's on Hulu.

[SPEAKER_02]: which actually, who there is not doing too bad with the indigenous content documentaries?

[SPEAKER_02]: You know, we saw Ivan Rusos series on anime, Aquash, and now this.

[SPEAKER_02]: So, in these both have amazing production quality.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, this is some pretty stuff.

[SPEAKER_02]: So, thoughts on the dock.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I mean, I'll just briefly say that also it's not just James Dominic Jr.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, he's quoted as the writer of the audio book.

[SPEAKER_00]: I guess I'll call the midnight son, audio release.

[SPEAKER_00]: So he's a writer on this.

[SPEAKER_00]: We see it through his eyes.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like many true-time films where there's an investigator.

[SPEAKER_00]: It seems he's sort of like playing that particular role in this doc.

[SPEAKER_00]: But it's directed by Khalil Hudson.

[SPEAKER_00]: So just to clarify in terms of like the media making.

[SPEAKER_00]: So James is both like the originator of this maybe true crime structure, and then Khalil's directing the dock while we see him on screen.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: And James says that he's like, he tells how he's obsessed with the story of Teddy Kyle Smith, because he also was an actor, [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, go out.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sorry.

[SPEAKER_01]: You struggling well and struggled with substance abuse and he just kind of related to him and then there's this mystery of what actually happened over those 40 how many days was it do we remember I know he went 40 miles he walked into the last good wilderness right into the Tundra [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he was on foot for 10 days, which was cited as unusual by one of the troopers saying that if you do that and you're not prepared well, you might get hypothermia and he went through some very, I guess, very challenging paths to this cabin than he struggles or they assume he stumbled upon maybe he knew that it was there.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, but it seemed like he was traversing spaces that were in hospital.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that becomes part of the argument that the documentary at least is making about the indicans.

[SPEAKER_00]: Am I saying that correct?

[SPEAKER_00]: Is it indianism?

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, that's good.

[SPEAKER_02]: And you can...

There's a...

We have a sound that drops the in and the throat.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: That I can't even do.

[SPEAKER_02]: This early without coffee.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but it seems like there is this argument that he had helped and the help came from the little people which is interesting I sort of somewhat relate to that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Is it some degree?

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I haven't had a non-appe experience myself, but there are family members of mine that have experienced [SPEAKER_00]: Moments were of peril, I guess, where they were in a circumstance of need for assistance, and you know, like there was a basically kind of like a car accident, and they were incapacitated, but needed assistance getting out of the vehicle.

[SPEAKER_00]: and they were kind of in and out of consciousness and they just remember they were there was help and you know looking back upon the circumstances seemed like they were small.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's little evidence of little feet, I guess, what they described as that.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's just the stories that are told about that particular recount, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Like I guess there's like audio recordings from the troopers asking Teddy of the experience.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then there's also the James goes to an elder who also recounts his own story.

[SPEAKER_00]: And Ross Shafer and talks about a moment that he experiences when you kind of see it depicted through animation.

[SPEAKER_00]: So that was just an interesting kind of just general relation to this.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's like a moment of storytelling, and I was able to identify because I heard stories, and it made me relate to this other nation that I had before, which is very interesting.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, and I asked my brother about them and he was like, oh, yeah, they're under a feet tall and they're mostly just mischievous, so when Teddy Carl spit uses it as a this version is a bit more ominous than the shape of your lanes, I guess, share and I really liked the animation.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the animation was great.

[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, the animation comes at a moment where Shafer is talking about how he felt, he wasn't sure if it was gonna take over his body, or they were gonna take over his body.

[SPEAKER_00]: That was an interesting aspect of this particular story about these little people.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'd never heard that kind of stance sort of felt like, maybe there was a sense of like, [SPEAKER_00]: you know, and other maybe western forms, it's a possession like it's somehow taking control of your agency, which is clearly spiritual and or paranormal, and that's the interesting element.

[SPEAKER_00]: And just hearing that particular elder tell those details.

[SPEAKER_00]: not just in the fact that it's a story being told, which I think is very indigenous, but in afforded him this sort of like testimony, which seems to be very in line with true crime, but it it was a moment of like cultural interchange for me, or it's like I was able to hear what was different about their particular cultural stories versus mine and it felt like there's something very kind of traditional about like that sharing of information.

[SPEAKER_00]: a particularly also like an elder.

[SPEAKER_00]: I felt like that was very kind of like appropriate to hear it from that particular authority.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now in all of that just made me think about how the true crime format here position Rosh J for it as an authority.

[SPEAKER_00]: In this case, not just cultural, but it seemed like it was describing elements related to [SPEAKER_00]: potential motives, like why this would happen, but like spiritual motives.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so I just thought that was very progressive of a genre that I mean, I don't think like the Navajo police documentary that I've seen or other true crime scenes, docs that relate to indigeneity.

[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like this is the first time I've heard and seen an elder position as an authority.

[SPEAKER_00]: as a in relation to motive, which is, which distinct about this whole case.

[SPEAKER_00]: In many cases, it seems like it's always framed as if it were hypothetical, or that it helps clarify a motive of the perpetrator.

[SPEAKER_00]: But in this case, it seems like it's trying to clarify why a phenomenon might happen in addition to maybe psychological motives if you want to ground it in that way.

[SPEAKER_00]: It is interesting that like I feel like I'm not sure how Hulu places itself are in relation to these perspectives because like the synopsis on IMDB which I think is pretty official says in in you can's are mythical beings of culture and so it's sort of like rephrases the fact that it's [SPEAKER_00]: the fact that there's like myth is a word that qualifies something is like you don't have to pay attention to this is real it's like symbolic or it's only I don't know literature or it's something that is only hypothetical and I think when we tell these stories and when we're communicating this information it's a it's in a form to educate entertain perhaps and it's all so seems like it's [SPEAKER_00]: really trying to make people aware of something that could be a potential issue like it's real and it's not hypothetical.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I felt like for the most part, I felt like the documentary making really grounded this in a way where it is legitimate as an argument.

[SPEAKER_00]: And when we hear about it, it seems like it's investigating motive and reason, I guess, without kind of really emphasizing the fact [SPEAKER_00]: Only story.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I thought that was interesting.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm very subtle.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think in the filmmaking and I think it, you know, probably stems a lot from James.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know where to little would sit on this, but it feels like there's maybe some, I don't know, sensitivity that they're thinking through because it doesn't seem like they're really utilizing the word myth all that much.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I guess they kind of use the word supernatural and powers, but for the most part, it seems like the way it's making an argument is weighted as if it's real.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that was, that was, well, that training goes into what are the things that I think was missing in this is that how the legal team was trying to build this case around this belief, religious belief, is how they were qualifying it.

[SPEAKER_02]: background having grown up outside of community.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm definitely looking at that book that his grandpa was part of.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's called the Eskimo Storyteller.

[SPEAKER_02]: But I was much more intrigued by how the legal team was putting the defense together by using the Inaktung as a defense.

[SPEAKER_02]: And because they did go into [SPEAKER_02]: declared sane, so he was able to go forward with his trial, but we didn't hear anything about legal precedence or the argument that they made to the judge or anything like that, which I felt like I would have been, that would have been interesting to hear.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's that is true.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's interesting that like that's also what is driving James to some degree.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's like the maybe the legal argument behind all of this and it does seem to jump just straight to the conviction.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, it misses it missed all of that and I think he also although he talks about substance abuse.

[SPEAKER_01]: in his own personal story, he very briefly eludes to it for Teddy Carl Smith.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I just find it really hard to believe that particularly with the situation with his mom that they didn't I mean that like society, the around there just didn't dismiss this as like a drunken murder basically.

[SPEAKER_02]: And that was the weird with his mom's case.

[SPEAKER_02]: he won't talk about it.

[SPEAKER_02]: Her parties were destroyed, you know, she was a culturekeeper.

[SPEAKER_02]: That was definitely something that they didn't feel comfortable addressing for some reason.

[SPEAKER_01]: But the true crime girlies are not going to allow that, like, [SPEAKER_01]: the way true crime works is that you get every single detail.

[SPEAKER_01]: I get to know everything, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: And I've said this before.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's like the thing that irritates non-native folks so much about when recreate media, which is like, but what about this?

[SPEAKER_01]: And it's like, you don't get to know that.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sorry.

[SPEAKER_01]: But that's not for you.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right, yeah, totally.

[SPEAKER_00]: And there's a couple of things there that you don't get to know.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's just a cultural, sensitive subject, but it's also like the family.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, it feels like there's some protection of both of those elements, which seems to be very, I mean, like that's important when it comes in, in originality.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think there's some element of like, [SPEAKER_00]: reverence to an elder because of her age compared to the media makers here.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's a third thing and it feels like that it's very implicit.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's going into this.

[SPEAKER_00]: You have to know that information to realize why that information about her cutting up her work or whoever did it or whomever.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: Or that it was cut up.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it feels like that piece is very indigenous.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like you will figure it out if you come from one of these nations.

[SPEAKER_00]: If not, you're going to need help, but it might seem like a week area.

[SPEAKER_00]: But that's not like week media making, I guess.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's like ethical.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, exactly.

[SPEAKER_00]: Which I guess, you know, the claim against a lot of these true crime docks is that, yeah, yeah, one of the claims is that they're not ethical.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think my internet's in and out.

[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like the claim is, you know, that they glorify the perpetrator and not the victims.

[SPEAKER_01]: It shouldn't be glorifying anybody in a documentary.

[SPEAKER_01]: First of all, but the focus is on the crime and not the victims and what they experience.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I didn't get any of that from this.

[SPEAKER_01]: This was genuinely a person doing inquiring into their own personal journey.

[SPEAKER_01]: It was really interesting he talks about how he quit drinking at the beginning of this process to learn everything he wanted to learn about and to make media about this and the narrator.

[SPEAKER_01]: profiting from a crime you're but to tell stories like this you're not going to make a profit you know it's just we're still in the like please can we just make this and break even carry it like you know you mean in terms of like our you're talking about like our native media you're talking about true crime yeah yeah yeah you know like he's not profiting [SPEAKER_01]: off of Teddy Kyle Smith's story, and he also told, you know, had one of the brothers who was shot, tell the story, had family members who were affected by this.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I wouldn't even call this like true crime, you know, in the same sense of what we see today.

[SPEAKER_00]: Why?

[SPEAKER_00]: Because of the prophet?

[SPEAKER_00]: Is that what you're talking about?

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, no, because of the way that he crafted the story, the way he didn't really glorify the actual crime itself.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, there were crime scene pictures, blood on the floor, zoom in, you know, all the usual elements.

[SPEAKER_01]: But, I don't know, it just felt like a kinder, gentler, true crime story.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's interesting.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, but it's a consumer of true crime.

[SPEAKER_02]: What do you, what are some of the comparing contrast in telling this, like specifically?

[SPEAKER_01]: Usually it's a person who is not affiliated with the crime in any way, maybe they're just really interested in it.

[SPEAKER_01]: They put themselves into the middle of it.

[SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot of like, I wanted to know more about, like, [SPEAKER_01]: But a lot of annoying, I mean, if it's like a pre-produced crime series, if it's one of these shows where you have a couple of hosts come on and they're like, so today we're talking about, you know, then, you know, they might write like the beginnings of a script and then.

[SPEAKER_01]: they'll go through the story and tell the story, but they're using articles and not really interviewing anybody and stuff like that, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: And it's like, I don't know, it's just like level one true crime, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: And then when you actually get into like spending the time talking to people, [SPEAKER_01]: talking to family members, talking to the victims, things like that, and then adding culture to it.

[SPEAKER_01]: I just, I don't, I don't hear a lot of that, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: There's a guy named Michael Gibway who has true crime podcasts called Divisable Choir, and he's native, and when he does anything about native stories, he tries to get somebody [SPEAKER_01]: get like firsthand accounts or things like that.

[SPEAKER_01]: He does a lot of that when I was talking about like where you just tell the story based on the sources that you have that are not related to natives, things, but he's also like experimented with like a long form, hour-long interview with a victim.

[SPEAKER_01]: of a crime that and talks very little about the perpetrator and stuff like that.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, but usually it's about how gross or scandalous the crime was, famous, you know, things like that.

[SPEAKER_02]: All of the salacious details.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and how much like though there will also do like things where they have like all of the court recordings or whatever that they tell the story with narration and the court recordings like true crime podcast will and it's just basically back and forth between those two things you know and again like.

[SPEAKER_01]: obviously making audio podcasts and making it full video full video documentary that's goes on Hulu is going to be so much more time and effort and research and fact checkers and I mean that's the other thing too like these like amateur [SPEAKER_01]: true crime podcasters that put their stuff out like very rarely is anybody fact checking their stuff.

[SPEAKER_01]: So a lot can be misconstrued and things like that.

[SPEAKER_01]: But the main thing I guess I want to say is like the difference was not just about the crime.

[SPEAKER_01]: It was about the entire like landscape of Alaska, the culture, the loss of culture, the challenges of living there.

[SPEAKER_01]: and whether or not this cultural thing had anything to do with the actual crime.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that's like a thousand times worrying depth in your typical true crime podcasts.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and then I would say just like with the video, I'm not, I'm sort of a casual true crime viewer.

[SPEAKER_00]: I may even do it, you know, maybe next to Maya, because she's the one that seems to really gauge with it more than I do.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I'll watch it.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm very interested in it when it plays.

[SPEAKER_00]: But one thing about this, it seems like it's sort of, [SPEAKER_00]: It plays into true crime, a lot of true crime conventions, like all the things you're talking about going to the scene of the crime, talking to investigators, in this case like the troopers hearing footage or hearing recordings from like the interviews from the moments of investigation, which is something I hear all the time, right, often there's like 911 calls or things like that, or body cams that are integrated and then crime scene photos, which we have all that.

[SPEAKER_00]: this also shifts into a different genre for a moment though which kind of relates back to this statement I made about mythical beings of the in you can if I say that right yeah you're good okay it kind of shifts into this like other like maybe cable format of like the cryptid documentary they're sort of like [SPEAKER_00]: you know all these shows where they go hunting for this quote unquote mythical being something that doesn't exist but everybody has reports of it right very famous versions of this would be like you know a big foot shell like monster hunters or something or even like paranormal UFO hunter shell or ghost hunters [SPEAKER_00]: And it shifts into that mode a little bit, so it feels like it's appropriating a style where you kind of hear somebody talk about their personal experience and then their sort of recreations of that experience and and in most of those shows they kind of do this thing where they try to create it through like visual effects like they'll have somebody in a mask or you know it's like if it's aliens and they're abducting someone they have like [SPEAKER_00]: created aliens that you can kind of see in a fake spaceship or they put somebody in a big foot suit.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then, you know, they have some sort of like analysis of it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes very scientific, like they'll show like the talk about locomotion, they'll talk about the muscle structure and they'll have like an expert, you know, talk about like in the medicine field or some sort of zoological field and talk about what could be potentially real about it.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it feels like it's always [SPEAKER_00]: and then does it in a way where it's using these sort of like horror, special effects attributes of like, you know, fiction?

[SPEAKER_00]: But this, this is where it kind of is very different.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it relates a little bit more to this, what we see and what we don't see about indigenous ethics.

[SPEAKER_00]: What do you reveal?

[SPEAKER_00]: What do you not reveal?

[SPEAKER_00]: And in this case, I think a lot of tribes have [SPEAKER_00]: have this position that you shouldn't really tell some of these stories unless it's the perfect time and place and the appropriate people and then even then there's information that you don't give because it's not safe.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's not like spiritual spiritually safe to reveal some of this information.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think the documentary does the same thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think the fact that we see this animation when the elders speaking about his own experience, it's like a more abstracted maybe more like two dimensional artwork and it feels like it replicates our own kind of maybe artwork and not [SPEAKER_00]: shifting into the world of science fiction and horror and creating somebody in like a suit door.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's not dressing somebody up and creating something that's more realistic to make the argument that it's real.

[SPEAKER_00]: It kind of protects and maybe there's some sanctity about the experience that, again, is elusive because it's meant to be respectful, culturally respectful.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I think that's really interesting and when it shifts into the other kind of genre mode and it feels like the most complicated things here is how do we maintain tradition as storytelling in this new medium while also kind of playing into conventions of genre and like it's playing into the true crime and it's playing into the sort of like cryptid genre and that's very interesting.

[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like I haven't seen that in this way from an indigenous maker.

[SPEAKER_01]: I agree.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, when I worked for Native America calling, we did a couple of shows about Bigfoot and the host, Terragatewood, she, I remember this one show, we had put together.

[SPEAKER_01]: She was very upset like with having doing the show because, well, one, the other producer and I made [SPEAKER_01]: where we were sitting down and talking about Sasquatch.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, is it Sasquatching?

[SPEAKER_01]: Or what's one Sasquatch?

[SPEAKER_01]: Sasquai?

[SPEAKER_01]: And the other producer was like, I'm not sure, it was a hilarious [SPEAKER_01]: little audio piece that I was really campaigning for like I felt like Native America calling was so like formal and missing like major pieces of like what audio could accomplish to in catch people's [SPEAKER_01]: attention into interest them and stuff like that.

[SPEAKER_01]: We had a non-native executive producer and Tara went to her and said, what Monica and Andy have done is incredibly offensive.

[SPEAKER_01]: It cannot go on the air.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's like if you, these are, [SPEAKER_01]: Sacred beings to many tribes and you're literally making fun of them.

[SPEAKER_01]: It would be, and then when she sat us down and told us, explain this to us, she was like, [SPEAKER_01]: mortified, you know, I mean, I'm the person who fought to get rid of mascot made a documentary about getting rid of mascots, you know, and the idea that I thought I was making something fun and funny was actually incredibly offensive or could be potentially incredibly offensive to our audience was just.

[SPEAKER_01]: I was so upset with myself, I was, you know, and, and she was nice about it.

[SPEAKER_01]: She was, I mean, she, I could tell she was really struggling to not, like, tell me more about how offensive I was than this.

[SPEAKER_01]: And the other producer was just like, I don't get it.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think it was hilarious and we should put more things up like that.

[SPEAKER_01]: you know and but it so when we did shows about these you know whether it was a little people or anything like that we always had this disclaimer at the beginning that was like hey we're going to talk about this and we know that this is really important and we're not making fun of it we're going to speak about this and we're going to do our best to speak about this in a respectful way and we really hope that you know and if you don't want to hear it turn it off and you know that kind of stuff.

[SPEAKER_01]: because exactly what you're talking about, Sunrise, like there is this cryptid genre.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it kind of vast, it goes back and forth between like, is this stuff real or RVs people crazy, you know?

[SPEAKER_01]: And when you add a cultural element to it, then you're really walking a fine line by saying, you know, oh, this net job thinks he saw Sasquatch.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it's like, actually that's like one of our holy people.

[SPEAKER_01]: So now you just said, [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I learned a lot like I was raising a family that was not that traditional and, you know, joke about finding big food and stuff like that.

[SPEAKER_01]: So it never once occurred to me that I was so offensive, you know?

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that makes sense.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think, I mean, if you are [SPEAKER_00]: reconnecting with your culture, and if you were not in a traditional home, but you're surrounded by media, what you're going to find is that that's the convention that Western approach is to consider it as again like not real in this realm of like the myth and it's it's easy to believe that you can just make fun of something that doesn't exist or holds no influence, I guess.

[SPEAKER_00]: And in this case, they are, how native people want to react to this material is varied, like some will engage with it, some will joke about it, but like if they don't want to hear it, and they want to step away, all those things are valid, but you know, like some of his genres or like storytelling formats of like horror films, paranormal movies, [SPEAKER_00]: It is not sensitive in the way that we're talking about, and this is just something that we're, you're, you're describing it's an element of like needing to decolonize it somehow or kind of find a a way to our own pathway and it feels like this is definitely trying to figure that out and that is important if we're just surrounded by all of this media that's like paranormal and horror.

[SPEAKER_00]: you know, and this is a Jason to our spiritual beings, like there's I don't know how many set the squash movies come out, you know, every year and they're generally horror-focused, but there's always like an element of it becoming camp and you're laughing at it, you know, and I'm sure where you can get to a point where somebody's going to make that particular film from our perspective, like something that is very large.

[SPEAKER_00]: I know that they exist in terms of shorts, [SPEAKER_00]: You know, though come a day when there's something that is very large and in the public's eye and a way that other films have it and it's going to It's the filmmakers are going to have to face these questions and and then I guess the marketplace is also going to have to reckon with this approach and it's just it's super interesting to me that this particular doc is starting to reckon with these issues but like that's important because that's all of our young people are just consuming this material left and right really without asking some of these questions.

[SPEAKER_00]: you know, and it's even, you know, like I, you know, we talked about Mwana and we talked about Godzilla and you know, like those, there are, you know, stories about creatures like that, though, also, you know, neither on reverence and it's just interesting that we're in this kind of time where like those movies are so easily made because of how accessible special effects are today.

[SPEAKER_00]: Especially when we start dealing with AI like these are never mind like the ethical questions in general about AI, but now like we're talking about culturally ethical questions like can the AI do something in a way that is perpetuating stereotypes is going to it's not going to think about things in our way so like if a young person is using AI to create a SaaS watch movie you know these are other questions that aren't being proposed but they're going to come very interesting time that we're living in.

[SPEAKER_02]: I would like to opt out of interesting times to live in, please.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_02]: But like, they go to precedent times, precedent times, please.

[SPEAKER_01]: Breaking, breaking the mold, not science is not real.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, my God.

[SPEAKER_02]: I had even thought about AI and where this could explode into good lord.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I know.

[SPEAKER_02]: Is your feed full of slot native AI?

[SPEAKER_01]: No.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I guess I because I made posted videos, reposted the videos like there was one where it was just just nonsense.

[SPEAKER_01]: But at one point, this woman is standing next to a bear and the bear has a beaded choker or beaded medallion.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's wearing and I posted something like, man, I really miss those times when I could put it me into it.

[SPEAKER_01]: And somebody in my feed was like, [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, and okay, so then what you're saying is sunrise may mean me think about when young native filmmakers get to get the opportunity to do stuff and make things.

[SPEAKER_01]: And now it's so much more accessible with how easy it is to shoot video and put something together.

[SPEAKER_01]: And the difference between them and like a non-native wanting to encounter this is that they might likely have elders or somebody in the family or sees it.

[SPEAKER_01]: We're not doing that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I've been in circumstances where I, you know, I've taught classes and we make a video and it skirts into these areas and they're sort of like, you know, the authority figures, which are some of them are elders are like, no, you can't, you cannot depict this because this is the form and that may be placed in the way it's stage is not appropriate.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's very similar to your experience with this Sasquatch piece and that's going to happen.

[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like that's somewhat happened for my observation with prey, like just now thinking about it, like, you know, that film, you know, a non-Indigenous director.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I think the steps that Jane took that predator film through is putting it in front of our command sheet audiences and command sheet elders and our governance.

[SPEAKER_00]: And they had a moment to have had to say.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think they really had some sway in terms of how the cut played out for the edit of that particular film, [SPEAKER_00]: Whistling at night and whether or not the predator is a form of a moop eats and when the vocabulary was utilized it feels like those things were a question so somehow came up and it was a moment where the the nation had its say and that's an interesting example in this particular area that we're talking that's interesting to think about that.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, and otherwise, we get dear lady, or what was that film, Dear Woman?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the Max Landis film.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Although, you know, I just saw an interesting Dear Woman short recently.

[SPEAKER_00]: And for getting, let me, let me, I just, I just saw it.

[SPEAKER_00]: I feel bad because of a, my notes are not in front of me.

[SPEAKER_00]: But it just saw this dear woman short, and it was Cherokee made, and it approached the perspective of the telling of the dear woman from maybe a positive, like the storytelling was like historic, you know, so it's like pre-contact.

[SPEAKER_00]: and it was very careful in the way that it kind of depicted what the evidence was of Dear Woman and when we saw her, it felt like it was kind of starting to deal with these issues that we're talking about.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we see it happening and those are two, I was like comparing that landess episode of Masters of Horror, two of that particular film because it was making decisions to not show some things and it was a forting Dear Woman some respect in some ways.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's happening [SPEAKER_00]: multiple.

[SPEAKER_02]: Hopefully on the flip side of your dire prediction is that we'll have these native filmmakers who are so technologically savvy that they can be more accurate and more and reach a wider audience with appropriate sharing of these tales.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think this this documentary is appropriate and it's what it shares and what it doesn't share from conversations with my brother and stuff.

[SPEAKER_02]: And honestly, if ever you go out to cuts view, if you go over you go out on the ice, if you're going to see some stuff, there's just nothing, there's no doubt about it.

[SPEAKER_02]: There's stuff out there that we just don't know.

[SPEAKER_02]: And we keep saying that that our people have been on this land for centuries, and we've seen it all, we know about it, and we respect it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, respect seems to be a part of the fall of the slate.

[SPEAKER_00]: Again, about the documentary feels like it's really reinforcing this theme of respect.

[SPEAKER_00]: even at the end where James interacts with him and gets the interview, which is again like a true crime convention, like as you're going to get the interview and it's kind of like the final sequence.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's issues of respect to come out, like the just Teddy speaks about how he wants what's best for the family and he talks about doing the most appropriate spiritual things for them in terms of like healing is the next thing regardless of whether or not he was convicted and [SPEAKER_00]: He's talking about change, and he's thinking about what's best for everyone.

[SPEAKER_00]: The community, the family, and not just him.

[SPEAKER_00]: That is very different from a lot of true crime, just in general.

[SPEAKER_00]: But like it seems to reinforce this idea of respect and themes related to ethnic indigenous ethics and indigenous morals.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's related to true crime documentary.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like what's ethical, what's moral, where the lines for that.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it feels like it's kind of drawing those lines.

[SPEAKER_00]: which I didn't expect, I thought that was very interesting.

[SPEAKER_00]: And also, like, doubly respectful because it feels like the filmmakers are giving Teddy this time to say these thoughts and not kind of vilifying him.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's, it's also treaty him again as maybe an elder because he is older than it seems like the media makers.

[SPEAKER_00]: So there's a sense of, like, perspective how much time he's given.

[SPEAKER_00]: all of that seemed very in line with what we're talking about.

[SPEAKER_00]: I would trust Kaleel with whatever he's going to make, make necks in terms of like this, questioning issues within our cultures.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, these two make a good team.

[SPEAKER_01]: I also think it's interesting, though, that some true crime, it's like, oh, actually this person is innocent and it kind of gets revealed at the end that they've been, you know, the filmmaker is sort of this person is trying to get out of jail because they're innocent, [SPEAKER_01]: You know, and for a moment when he was being interviewed, I saw it, oh, is this what's going to happen?

[SPEAKER_01]: He's making a campaign for because he gets no probation.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's 99 years flat.

[SPEAKER_01]: There's no, there's no, there's no, there's no coming back out, you know, and redeeming himself out on the outside anyway.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so I was wondering if that was, I was like, is this where it's going?

[SPEAKER_01]: And it didn't, it didn't go there.

[SPEAKER_01]: There was no discussion about like appeals or anything like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's very interesting.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's true.

[SPEAKER_02]: And the whole thing closes on family and community and and still can prove it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Which is so important.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think that all of us in the United States are learning the importance of building our communities and relying on each other through tough times to be there for each other.

[SPEAKER_00]: So just to you just described all that and that's like the complete opposite of Eddington.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh my gosh.

[SPEAKER_02]: Eddington.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yep.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm pretty much.

[SPEAKER_01]: I liked it.

[SPEAKER_01]: I did too.

[SPEAKER_01]: I rewound and watched that scene with where he's talking to the woman about the little houses.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: We didn't talk about the helicopter footage of this with the rocks because oh my gosh.

[SPEAKER_02]: I was like, oh, I was like, oh, I was like, I had a telephoto lens or something.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: I was like, that would be rude too.

[SPEAKER_02]: There are real people.

[SPEAKER_02]: That was crazy.

[SPEAKER_02]: I was like, I would have gotten the heck out of there too.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, sometimes you got to get it out there.

[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes you just got to let stuff be alone.

[SPEAKER_00]: So like you see a little glimpse, you're like, okay, see you.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, you're going to get out of there.

[SPEAKER_01]: No, thank you.

[SPEAKER_01]: No, thank you.

[SPEAKER_01]: Our power went out this morning and I just for a brief moment.

[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, is that because I watched that documentary?

[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, right.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Listen, that's what happened to the camp.

[SPEAKER_02]: She said, right.

[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I mean, you gotta be careful.

[SPEAKER_02]: You can't be messing around because you will learn.

[SPEAKER_02]: F-O-F, what does it?

[SPEAKER_02]: F-A-F-O.

[SPEAKER_00]: F-A-F-O, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: Why don't I tell that story before, but how all my sudden glasses disappeared when summer, and I just stood there in the middle of the room when I was like, please, I would like just one pair back.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's all I'm asking, just one pair to make it through the rest of the summer.

[SPEAKER_02]: Next morning, they were there on top of the dryer.

[SPEAKER_02]: I was like, thank you, thank you, appreciate you.

[SPEAKER_01]: I keep saying that in my house about scissors.

[SPEAKER_01]: I can't find God damn para scissors to save my life.

[SPEAKER_01]: And all they're doing, the my family is doing is like, we're going to go to TSA and order a box of, you can order 10 pounds of scissors because they confiscate them.

[SPEAKER_01]: And we're just going to put that box in the house and then, you know, you'll have all the scissors you ever need.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, how about you just put them back?

[SPEAKER_01]: Is it two majors or is it little people?

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, this is, you know, like Western paranormal studies says this is something called jot.

[SPEAKER_00]: J.

O.

T.

T.

And it's, it's an abbreviation.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of stupid.

[SPEAKER_00]: The abbreviation is for just one of those things, but it was codified by this woman Mary Rose Behrington.

[SPEAKER_00]: And she's got this whole book about about stories about this phenomenon.

[SPEAKER_00]: People like, you know, putting something down, [SPEAKER_00]: where they are sure of where it is and then they walk away and they come back and it's gone, they search and they search and some people find it again where it was after they searched there several times and some people find it in a completely strange location.

[SPEAKER_00]: So there's many stories like this that are documented.

[SPEAKER_00]: Obviously, indigeneity would say that the answers that there's little people in our house and they're telling you something, but that's just interesting that it's like been documented and it's been given [SPEAKER_00]: J-O-T-T, anyway.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, that's a shame that they don't recognize that there are other beings in this world that just like to be mischievous and misfit you.

[SPEAKER_00]: They do.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, they probably get bored.

[SPEAKER_00]: Some of it, we think they're telling us stuff, but I think some of it's like they're just playing around.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think that's what it is mostly.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's what Grandma's a prisoner always said.

[SPEAKER_02]: They're just messing with you.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's just fun.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you know, we like to laugh.

[SPEAKER_02]: We like to have fun.

[SPEAKER_02]: They're like, she's talking about scissors again.

[SPEAKER_02]: Let's be so right.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, Kuyana to all of our listeners for sticking with us again this week and we appreciate our hosts and We all recommend going to see on Hulu But in myth missing blood but in myth midnight son or you can listen to midnight son as a win, which is the name like you remember [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I recommend that you do both because there's, there's stuff in midnight sun that is not covered in the documentary.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, great.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it's more of a personal, it's more personal storytelling.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that both find pieces to share and consume.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then support both native artists.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: Listen to them both and watch them both.

[SPEAKER_02]: And remember, you can find us on Facebook at realindages.podcast, Twitter, X, at real underscore indigenous Instagram, real indigenous pod, all-one word, blue sky, real dashed in digit dash pod, and we're on patreon real indigenous podcast.

[SPEAKER_02]: And we appreciate our patreon subscribers.

[SPEAKER_02]: One of these days we're getting us all microphones.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, thank you.

[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much.

[SPEAKER_01]: We really appreciate it.

[SPEAKER_02]: And be sure to leave us a review or a rate us on your favorite podcast platform.

[SPEAKER_02]: And remember, don't just keep it real, keep it real.

[SPEAKER_02]: And did it, did it, did it, did it, did it, did it, did it, did it, did it.