[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome back to Shit Show Saturday.

[SPEAKER_00]: We have a returning shit show.

[SPEAKER_00]: Shit show Rachel.

[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for not to be underneath me.

[SPEAKER_01]: I would never abandon you.

[SPEAKER_01]: I would tell you first.

[SPEAKER_01]: No, you just didn't.

[SPEAKER_00]: Better than ghosting me, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: I know.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean so much better.

[SPEAKER_00]: So paint the picture of, well, you are, you join Patreon, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: You were like, you're already a board.

[SPEAKER_00]: So you're an initial, you're a founding member of the shit show.

[SPEAKER_00]: Paint the picture of what life was like when you joined the community.

[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_01]: So by then I had left my ex husband who was in alcoholic.

[SPEAKER_01]: I had two kids.

[SPEAKER_01]: So my youngest was born in twenty eighteen.

[SPEAKER_01]: So who's about, you know, three or four when I joined and my oldest who special needs is four years older than him.

[SPEAKER_01]: So he was like six or seven and I was really.

[SPEAKER_01]: having a hard time with them like single parenting.

[SPEAKER_01]: Even though they're amazing, it was just a really big juggle.

[SPEAKER_01]: I had moved an hour away from like what my parents live where my ex husband lives was working obviously full time and just trying to [SPEAKER_01]: be the best version of myself to help them out.

[SPEAKER_01]: But obviously at that time, I was still struggling with a lot of things as we struggle every day, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: But I had joined Alonon when my son was in my belly to like seven years ago.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I had done a lot with Alonon sponsors, work the steps.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I think when I found your podcast, I had never looked at like the actual trauma behind and what I knew my marriage and work because my ex was in alcoholic, but I and I allowed things that I shouldn't have allowed, but I didn't know what was within me in my background.

[SPEAKER_01]: That would fuel the rest of the healing journey and what I needed to see that was ultimately [SPEAKER_01]: This, not the symptom, the main reason for all the symptoms.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, well, that's where was that?

[SPEAKER_01]: My founder.

[SPEAKER_00]: Was it hard for you to, like, come on board with the fact that it was trauma?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_01]: Because there was never any type of, there was never hitting, there was never abuse, there was never anything [SPEAKER_01]: that would have visually been that to anyone.

[SPEAKER_01]: So to this day, I think, oh, no, I can like talk myself out of it really easily if I were to look back at the like surface layer effects.

[SPEAKER_01]: That makes sense.

[SPEAKER_00]: And was there something pivotal that allowed you to like really like grasp that or do you feel like it was like a slow burn as far as like accepting that it was trauma?

[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's been a slow burn over time, peeling that onion of the tears.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there were like big things that happened that I could say, maybe that was because it was trauma, but it was delving into like how I was spoken to how things happen, interactions is literally pulling all those layers off that made me realize that it really was.

[SPEAKER_00]: And as you [SPEAKER_00]: As you've continued down this journey, how has your understanding of your child or the experience?

[SPEAKER_00]: How do you see things differently as you've gone through this journey?

[SPEAKER_01]: I see it really differently because there was a lot of times I was with my dominant parent, even though my parents were together and a lot of times my father was like absent and he was there but he wasn't like so he was at work or he was kidding home late or he'd come home but he wasn't that like parent where I would speak to them all the time.

[SPEAKER_01]: I was if I needed something he was there but it was more financial [SPEAKER_01]: And then I also had, but then in the end, I had a lot more resentments towards the dominant parent because there was so much swept under the rug covered up and then in general dissociation from them to me.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I looked back at what I thought was so healthy.

[SPEAKER_01]: And because I remember in college thinking, no one wants to go home to their families.

[SPEAKER_01]: They don't want to be with them.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm so lucky I get to go home to mine and I'm excited.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that [SPEAKER_01]: Looking back, it was because everything was surface.

[SPEAKER_01]: We didn't get to those deep layers, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: And it wasn't until I was older that I could see the deep layers and saw how much they were ignored that I couldn't unsee it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like you can't unsee it once you see it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Or how many things were sucked under their rugs?

[SPEAKER_01]: Like I had a epiphany recently of something big that happened when I was a kid.

[SPEAKER_01]: There was a time I didn't even see my dad.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I didn't remember that.

[SPEAKER_01]: And all the details behind it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like I even had to ask a friend, they're like, is this true?

[SPEAKER_01]: Am I making this up?

[SPEAKER_01]: Like it was so deeply wounded and come, like, you know, we cover things up that I couldn't even see it.

[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't even remember it.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's like so many layers.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, and each layer comes up as I go, even to this day.

[SPEAKER_01]: I've been in the rooms all the rooms for like seven years.

[SPEAKER_01]: And probably eight now, yeah, over eight years, and I still see stuff, and it's still hurts just in a different way.

[SPEAKER_01]: But in a healthy way, because I need to see it, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: I know, it's like this continuous like back and forth of having the shit come up, getting to like a level of like acceptance or forgiveness and then having more more shit come up and like back and forth between like [SPEAKER_00]: the anger and the acceptance and the anger and the acceptance.

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, and before I think we first started so surface like, oh, so and so was mad at so and so or this they weren't speaking and I realized why, but now it's like deep the layers of like seeing things that I wouldn't have seen back then.

[SPEAKER_01]: I wasn't ready to see them.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that when it is, it's really true how it can be so much more impactful [SPEAKER_00]: when it's subtle because it's so fucking hard to see it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then I'm coming to the acceptance that I don't really think my family meant to do this to me.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, that's something I've been struggling with.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, I don't think they meant it.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think they even realized it.

[SPEAKER_01]: They didn't even realize they were in this cycle.

[SPEAKER_01]: And here I am kind of whole, I don't want to say holding it against them, but holding my boundaries, which feels like I'm holding it against them to make my life [SPEAKER_01]: healthier and happier for myself and my kids, but I also have this deep sadness that they don't get it.

[SPEAKER_01]: They, they can mean or bad for doing this to them because they don't see it and they don't even know that that's the trauma they live in.

[SPEAKER_01]: So.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I want to talk about that because you have gone to contact with your parents.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so I'm curious, you're saying, you're excited to go home and spend time with your parents.

[SPEAKER_00]: How is that progression looked as far as your relationship with them and just like the demise of that?

[SPEAKER_01]: Um, I realized that it was very surface.

[SPEAKER_00]: And when I would go home, it was for that realization not until you started doing this work.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and it was even later.

[SPEAKER_01]: It was like, I divorced my alcoholic husband.

[SPEAKER_01]: He actually went no contact with us.

[SPEAKER_01]: He doesn't see his children at all.

[SPEAKER_01]: Which kind of breaks my heart.

[SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot of guilt around that too that I pick someone like it's like the cycle continues, you know, but at the end of the day, my kids have an amazing life.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's the whole point of this, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: It's to have that life for me and them.

[SPEAKER_01]: But as I've started going through this steps and the cycle and walking through, [SPEAKER_01]: and seeing the layers and seeing the different parts of toxicity.

[SPEAKER_01]: Because I actually, even before Alonon, I used to like my parents were on like GA and like gaminon and stuff like that too.

[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, so it started there.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's how I even knew about the step programs.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like I was younger, so I didn't go, but I would go to birthday meetings and different stuff like that.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I meet a lot of sponsors and different program people.

[SPEAKER_01]: So there was a lot of financial and money things that would come up and then as the layers went on and also as I became financially independent on my own and even realizing I remember when I got divorced they were like you can move in with us will build an extra room will help you with the kids and you know that sounds like a dream that's what anyone would want and something told me don't do that like you can do this do it on your own like [SPEAKER_01]: like you can do this and it was scary.

[SPEAKER_01]: Scary thing I ever did.

[SPEAKER_01]: But tenfold, like my income has tripled since then.

[SPEAKER_01]: Not gonna would think of them, like so blessed.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like I have a fully remote job.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like doors just basically open that allowed me to do it once I put it out there to the universe.

[SPEAKER_01]: Going back to what we talked about earlier.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like you put it out there to the universe, you ask God and like I don't want to sound corny, but like I really do think it helps.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like it's not that I wasn't putting in the work.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's just I needed that guidance.

[SPEAKER_01]: And when I let it go and I finally said, I got this, like just like, what is it the saying?

[SPEAKER_01]: Let go and let God or is that?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Let go and let God.

[SPEAKER_01]: I say that all the time.

[SPEAKER_01]: We dragged, we dragged, dragged through the shit.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I think, I've always been dragged through the shit and just kept my mouth shut because I was a people pleaser and it's hard.

[SPEAKER_01]: I hate pushing back.

[SPEAKER_01]: Even in work, when I have to send an email and tell someone, no, I haven't died for like an hour before I send it and ask chat to you.

[SPEAKER_01]: If it's okay to send and they're like, yes, but it's still so hard for me in that sense.

[SPEAKER_01]: Um, but yeah, it's overtime every bit of it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like where I go to a family party, then all of a sudden the dinner conversation is like toxic between like different people at the party and I'm like, oh man, I gotta get away from here.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then hearing my gut when I feel like, oh, this is uncomfortable or oh, I don't want this or oh, this can't happen.

[SPEAKER_01]: Um, whereas I stuffed it before and ignored that like, oh, I have a tummy ache.

[SPEAKER_01]: Why don't I have a tummy ache?

[SPEAKER_01]: It's not the food or it was the food because I just kept eating because I was uncomfortable and didn't want to talk.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I think over time you start to see those patterns and listen to how your body reacts because I think before I didn't pay attention to that.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so what did it look like as far as like slowly trying to set boundaries [SPEAKER_00]: with your parents and having that not be respected to because as a as a people pleaser as an adult child like getting to a point where you are willing to to go no contact usually takes a lot of a lot of time and a lot of pain.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I think the biggest thing I want to say about it is it's been about six months and I'm still kind of as permanent.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, you know, pardon me, things that is part of it is not right.

[SPEAKER_01]: But for anyone thinking about or anyone that knows so on that has done it, it's not a decision you make lightly.

[SPEAKER_01]: It wasn't like, I was like, I'm gonna do it tomorrow.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm gonna do it tomorrow.

[SPEAKER_01]: It was like, I woke up, a comment came in and I was like, I can't do this anymore.

[SPEAKER_01]: No more.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it's like that no more when you, for example, leave an alcoholic marriage or when you break up a friendship, it was just like, I can't do it.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that was it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like I'd gone to yoga the night before, I'd seen something big.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that's morning, there was a comment and I was like, and it wasn't even a big comment.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like the comment wasn't a big deal.

[SPEAKER_01]: It was a text.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I was just like, but no, I can't do this anymore.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I think there becomes a point in that healing where you really know your worth and what you can accept and what you can't, which if you told me this even a year ago, I would have said, ha ha, I respect myself, but no, I really did not see.

[SPEAKER_01]: what my needs were.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I really ignored them a lot of times.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like I said, it wasn't like I was being hit.

[SPEAKER_01]: It wasn't like this.

[SPEAKER_01]: It was just, it was toxic comments.

[SPEAKER_01]: It was putting someone else's needs before mine.

[SPEAKER_01]: It was not seeing me for me.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I think at some point, there was like a year before this where I wanted to go to a contact.

[SPEAKER_01]: And they, like, I wasn't no contact in my head.

[SPEAKER_01]: I needed to set boundaries where [SPEAKER_01]: saw them once in a month or once a year however that looked like and they had some medical issues and I dulled back it and had first and you know a year later I was like nope we're back where we started I can't do this anymore I mean it was almost like a resentment in myself that I didn't do it sooner because there was so much healing that could have been done but obviously I wasn't ready yeah yeah did you communicate it?

[SPEAKER_01]: In a text, which still makes me feel bad, but I don't think it would have mattered how I communicated it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, a lot of push back initially.

[SPEAKER_01]: I still get texts.

[SPEAKER_01]: I just asked for space and I still get texts here and there.

[SPEAKER_01]: Can we do this for this holiday?

[SPEAKER_01]: Can we do this for that?

[SPEAKER_01]: And I just, I know if I respond, even though I'd like to, it's going to open another.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's gonna like wound myself and I'll get pushed back into like I know myself.

[SPEAKER_01]: I have a lot of resentment from my kids to already that they're ten and six and they ask all the time.

[SPEAKER_00]: I was gonna be my next question was like how did you handle like communicating things to them?

[SPEAKER_01]: I've just told them so far like we just need a little space right now from them and I'm not sure how long it will be.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm just trying to be as honest as possible without getting into all the details.

[SPEAKER_01]: I know someday hopefully they'll understand but [SPEAKER_01]: That part of it makes me really sad, but I also know.

[SPEAKER_01]: They're doing really well.

[SPEAKER_01]: I also thought I couldn't do it without any support.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I've had all these gifts come to me.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like I have a neighbor that helps me take one of my kids to school.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like I don't know where I posted on Facebook to look for someone to pay to take my kid to school.

[SPEAKER_01]: And they're like, are you kidding?

[SPEAKER_01]: Where your neighbor?

[SPEAKER_01]: Let us take them.

[SPEAKER_01]: And she's been doing it for a year like what a gift right and it makes me want to cry because as you put it out there to the universe and you know the people in your circle like I have three amazing babysitters I never used babysitters like in my whole life now I know I have like very trustworthy babysitters that [SPEAKER_01]: would do anything for my kids.

[SPEAKER_01]: They actually love them.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, and not that I have them all the time, but I need options.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like I want to go mom, like you get a knock on one God forbid, you get a flat tire.

[SPEAKER_01]: You can't be a pickup.

[SPEAKER_01]: You can't do this.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like work both kids need to be somewhere at the same time.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like what do you do?

[SPEAKER_01]: And I just say like for any parents out there that are thinking about it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like I'm telling you, the universe provides.

[SPEAKER_01]: And yes, there's stressful moments.

[SPEAKER_01]: but it's so much less stress than relying on toxic people in your life and the constant back and forth of them not showing up for you.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then I made amazing friends along the journey, too, which is, and yoga has also been part of my healing journey.

[SPEAKER_01]: I also never knew how to stop and think and breathe.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like the most simple things in life, I didn't know how to do.

[SPEAKER_01]: But give me to have to breathe in between things.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, you're ever?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: Have you noticed that since going to contact with your parents that you've been able to show up as a better parent?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm very much more aware and I'm not set out.

[SPEAKER_01]: There could be times where I could just have a ten minute conversation with them and my whole mindset would change or I'd check out.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that rarely happens now.

[SPEAKER_00]: Did you ever try to have a conversation with your parents about like complex trauma?

[SPEAKER_01]: Not per se.

[SPEAKER_01]: I have mentioned things in the past that like bothered me.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm a brought things up like, oh, I didn't know that this happened as a, you know, but it happened.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then my mom would be like, oh, I see that.

[SPEAKER_01]: I hear that, you know, I see what you're saying.

[SPEAKER_01]: But there's never like accountability.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's more like I see it.

[SPEAKER_01]: I hear it.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that's something I wish I could do.

[SPEAKER_01]: I just don't think we're at that spot.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, really.

[SPEAKER_00]: What do you know about their upbringing?

[SPEAKER_01]: I know they both had the same cycle.

[SPEAKER_01]: My dad adopted from Europe.

[SPEAKER_01]: So there's obviously some abandonment wounds in any type of adoption, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: And his, my grandma, his mom was very kind of cruel.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I could see where his comes from.

[SPEAKER_01]: And he probably messed it with drinking gambling, you name it.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then my mom, it was more like dry drunk kind of thing that just moved through the ages, like my grandpa's mom or dad was like an alcoholic.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then his brother was, but he wasn't, but he yelled a lot.

[SPEAKER_01]: And he actually still lives with my parents.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's he's older.

[SPEAKER_01]: I talked to him a tiny bit.

[SPEAKER_01]: I tried to keep a distance, but it also makes me sad because he's older.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's like, ninety-eight.

[SPEAKER_01]: But he also is part of the toxicity.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's not like he didn't play a role.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's just he's older now.

[SPEAKER_01]: So he's not in it.

[SPEAKER_01]: He doesn't have the- The dropout is living in his room, you know?

[SPEAKER_01]: So I try to stay, at least mentally in touch with him.

[SPEAKER_00]: Talk about what navigating this healing has looked like as a parent and like dealing with the guilt.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there's been a lot of guilt.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think goodness, I have an amazing therapist.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I've obviously had amazing groups to come to, whether that be your groups or Alan on or just the people you meet in groups over time that you can just call and lean on and vice versa.

[SPEAKER_01]: It helps me a lot.

[SPEAKER_01]: Journalings help me a lot.

[SPEAKER_01]: I have a let go of God box where I need to just write it down and put it away and that's God for help.

[SPEAKER_01]: Just really trying to trust the process as much as possible.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, there's going to be good weeks.

[SPEAKER_01]: There's going to be, there's days when it's one minute at a time, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: Let me just get through today.

[SPEAKER_01]: Less so now than then when I started.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I think just knowing what that you want more, you want something different.

[SPEAKER_01]: And once you start seeing things, if you really lean in, I mean, you meet people every day.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, are those the people you want to associate with as you get to know them?

[SPEAKER_01]: Do you need to pull back?

[SPEAKER_01]: And really in the past, it was like, oh, they like me.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I have a friend.

[SPEAKER_01]: I needed people to accept me.

[SPEAKER_01]: I never thought about the fact that even like dating, like, I have to, like, you're interviewing them to see if you like them, doesn't see if they like you.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, yes, you are, but I never conceptually in life realize it's like that with every, like when they say with all our affairs, it's all our affairs.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's even your hairdresser.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like it's your, it's everyone you associate with.

[SPEAKER_01]: Do you want them in your life?

[SPEAKER_01]: Um, and that's something I never knew I had that option.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: I did everything because you were told to do it.

[SPEAKER_00]: We still desperately want to be chosen, you know, realize that like we could choose.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, exactly.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's the biggest, uh, I've had like if you make a decision, you can change your mind.

[SPEAKER_01]: If you don't want someone in your life, it's okay.

[SPEAKER_01]: And you're not being mean.

[SPEAKER_01]: You're just being genuine, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: Like say what you mean me when you say don't say it mean.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it's still hard for me, but I know that when I have to do it now, and it's so free.

[SPEAKER_00]: How to let go of any new friendships?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there's been a lot of friendships that have dissolved over the years.

[SPEAKER_01]: Mostly after my divorce, because you know, you have a lot of friends that just fizzle out as you go.

[SPEAKER_01]: I do have some friendships that have been so strong, like I have two or three amazing female friends that have been through it all with me, like all.

[SPEAKER_01]: I have one that we've gotten super close, you know, and she's seen everything, she doesn't judge me, she knows she's good bad in the ugly, and I'm never been so grateful, but I can see it now.

[SPEAKER_01]: But it's also taught me what a relationship should look like.

[SPEAKER_01]: That relationship has grown over twenty plus years.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's the most true relationship I've ever had because I've let it actually naturally grow instead of rushing it, sabotaging it.

[SPEAKER_01]: All the things.

[SPEAKER_01]: I know expectations, just genuine.

[SPEAKER_01]: Connection.

[SPEAKER_00]: All right, so let's talk about dating.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, goodness.

[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_01]: Or lack thereof.

[SPEAKER_01]: No.

[SPEAKER_01]: So when I first started dating, it was just to make sure I wasn't broken in any capacity mentally, physically, cannot even do this.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I was with my X-fifteen years, which is the most like, like, are my twenties on.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that was like my the prime dating years.

[SPEAKER_01]: So when I went back to dating, I was like, first of all, it's going to sound really like, [SPEAKER_01]: stupid but people just have sex and it's so easy to come by and I was like [SPEAKER_01]: but that's not what I was raised to think or do or whatever and I'm not saying that per se about me but I just could not believe that there was so much of it in the world like people could say with three people one day I know that sounds like even dumb and that's my adult child syndrome right like I didn't realize all of this and as I went on and I always thought sex meant love [SPEAKER_01]: which is not true, obviously.

[SPEAKER_01]: So there was all these alhaz that I had learning.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then red flags, I would be like, oh, red flags, but I didn't really know what they meant or what, like, like, I didn't trust my gut at first.

[SPEAKER_01]: I went on a series of like bad dates where there were times, like I got stood up one time.

[SPEAKER_01]: There was a time when someone just wanted to hang out in his backseat and I was like, wait, what?

[SPEAKER_01]: I forgot my wallet, like you didn't see.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, what a date.

[SPEAKER_01]: I know, so, so hot.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that was like six years ago and I was like, wait.

[SPEAKER_01]: This, this is not right.

[SPEAKER_01]: This is not right.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, there were, I could do like a friend series.

[SPEAKER_01]: The one with, the one where the guy didn't show up.

[SPEAKER_01]: The one where the guy just wanted to get stuff in his backseat.

[SPEAKER_01]: The one where, like there's the egg he go on.

[SPEAKER_01]: The one where he was a hobo sexual and wanted to move in with me.

[SPEAKER_01]: I also learned that term.

[SPEAKER_00]: Sexual.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, it's a thing, but I have to say that was all in the beginning.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like in the last, I would say two to three, maybe even four years.

[SPEAKER_01]: There's been a series of bad dates, but not bad situations.

[SPEAKER_01]: I've gotten myself into because that, you know, so it might just be like, no, I don't want to do this.

[SPEAKER_01]: No, you're not the one for me.

[SPEAKER_01]: A lot of [SPEAKER_01]: cutting people off.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, we want to want to, sorry, this isn't for me.

[SPEAKER_01]: Or now I require a phone conversation or anything before we ever meet, you know, video chat.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I can weed people out like this.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I'm not meeting everyone.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm meeting very few, actually, changing things out, trusting my gut, checking in, bringing it to a group, bringing it to my therapist and not lying about it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Because I think, [SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes, we're only as great as our secrets, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: And if we know, and if we don't tell someone about it, even though it feels like, oh my gosh, this is like the hundredth day.

[SPEAKER_01]: No one wants to hear this anymore.

[SPEAKER_01]: But it's not a hundred dates anymore.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's what we need less because you only go out with who deserves your time.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I haven't found anyone yet, but I also have come to the conclusion that I don't need to find someone.

[SPEAKER_01]: And if it happened, that's awesome.

[SPEAKER_01]: And obviously I want that.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I can do this on my own.

[SPEAKER_01]: My kids, and I constantly think about, well, if my parents are in my life and my kids are in my life, and this is all because of toxicity, I can't let anyone in my life that goes against that.

[SPEAKER_01]: Or threatens that.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that is telling, because when I went started to go, no contact, I finally had that freeing realization that nothing's worth it.

[SPEAKER_01]: If I'm going that serious to not talk to them, then I need to make sure whoever I talk to is worth that.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that was like a ha.

[SPEAKER_00]: Are you willing to share about this last situation?

[SPEAKER_00]: Such a girl.

[SPEAKER_00]: She's a good story.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I'm at a guy, I'm fine.

[SPEAKER_01]: This is actually, it's like a series of four, actually, I would say, I used to say, how come I haven't met any decent guys that it just start for me?

[SPEAKER_01]: And I met like three at speed dating and they were also nice, just not for me.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like when I'm talk too much, it was like very self-centered.

[SPEAKER_01]: One of them would not turn his air conditioning on in his house.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, well, you just don't value yourself enough to put your air on.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like what is going on?

[SPEAKER_01]: And we live in a hundred and ten degree climate.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like just weird stuff, but I'm like, I can't [SPEAKER_01]: like stand for it.

[SPEAKER_01]: But this last one really hit me.

[SPEAKER_01]: So we went on three dates, which also was rare.

[SPEAKER_01]: Normally I don't get past the first date because there's something big and glaring.

[SPEAKER_01]: First date was really fun.

[SPEAKER_01]: Can you I like to say so we went out to karaoke and we went to dancing because he liked to and he wanted to play pool.

[SPEAKER_01]: So we did that was like a long date of all these activities.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, long.

[SPEAKER_00]: What's your goal at karaoke song?

[SPEAKER_01]: Killing me softly.

[SPEAKER_01]: Food song.

[SPEAKER_00]: I love it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Obviously, I don't treat myself.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then, so we go out.

[SPEAKER_01]: We had a great time with dance tonight away.

[SPEAKER_01]: I went home.

[SPEAKER_01]: The next date was like we did a little picnic at the park and with our hands taken we watched a sunset and it was really nice and we did a little hike and then the third date came which we only did the picnic because we both had our kids so we only had like an hour or two we wanted me halfway and there were like no restaurant so we're like let's just make it work right?

[SPEAKER_01]: In the third day we both had more time so we decided to go out dancing again because we had so much fun dancing and [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know why, but the dancing place was like right by his house.

[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, oh, just pick you up.

[SPEAKER_01]: No problem.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like he didn't ask me to, but I was curious and it was third day and why only whatever he was again.

[SPEAKER_01]: So he gives me his eyes or something and go pick him up.

[SPEAKER_01]: we drive to your house that we go to have dinner and we have drink and after words were like oh let's go dancing now okay so go dancing and we're dancing the night away but as we're out I realize like how much he's drinking so much like he had three twenty four ounce beers at dinner and he only had like a pokey like stack which was like no carbs [SPEAKER_01]: And then when we went to just saying I guess so I mean I I'm telling you I didn't or I only had half a drink like I'm not a drinker at all and even then I was like I can't even drink that half because I have to drive like I'm so conscious of it on the opposite extreme [SPEAKER_01]: So we went to the place to go dancing and I realized that he had two more beers.

[SPEAKER_01]: And while we're there, he was like, come on, have a drink with me.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm keeping, I can't, I can't.

[SPEAKER_01]: And he was so convincing that I got a white cloth.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then as I got the drink on like, why did I order this?

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I can't drink this and drive.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I had like three sips of it and just pretended I was drinking it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Again, shouldn't have had to just held my boundary to say no, but of course, [SPEAKER_01]: people please or us.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I didn't drink it.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I was just like, sipping in a little.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I felt like tipsy.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so then we go to leave.

[SPEAKER_01]: He says, you want to come back to my place.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, oh, I go to drop them off anyway.

[SPEAKER_01]: He says, you want to come in.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, OK.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I go into his house and his parents are inside on the couch, hang out.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so I didn't love with his parents at this point, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I knew they were staying with him.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I didn't realize it was their house.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, how did he told you that they were staying with him?

[SPEAKER_01]: Like there was a medical issue in that his mom had had, you know, had to go to the doctor here or something.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_01]: So they go, okay, whatever.

[SPEAKER_01]: So then his parents are just sitting there and then we walked past them with no introduction.

[SPEAKER_01]: That was the weirdest part.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then we go in his room and he's like, come on, I have to pee pee.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, oh, what are you?

[SPEAKER_01]: He's like, four or two.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so I'm like, OK, well, he's trying to put Netflix on.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's like, I don't want to have you hear me pee.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, OK, I'll do the Netflix.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then I realize it's his ex's Netflix account with her name, like Blaster Cross, his big TV.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then the last part was that he just started babbling, like, drunk babbling.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, I can't do this.

[SPEAKER_01]: I have to go.

[SPEAKER_01]: Because at that point, I realized [SPEAKER_01]: I think he drank like a hundred ounces of beer in like three hours.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, I'm really sad about this, you know?

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I thought this was something.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I think ultimately he's a good guy.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's just lost some direction, you know?

[SPEAKER_01]: And then he kept saying, I need a hobby.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I don't have a hobby for me.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I was originally attracted to him because we both worked out a lot.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like we both went to the gym at ten.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that that was just like his distraction because you didn't know what to do and his kid wasn't there and he wasn't working.

[SPEAKER_01]: It wasn't like for me, the gym is my life like if I miss workouts, my brain is not okay.

[SPEAKER_01]: If I don't check it on a workout for a day or two, I'm probably not in good place.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I think the side part was that I had hope because I had never gone to a third date with someone.

[SPEAKER_01]: at least not in a law like years.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so I think that the growth was that I left and that I broke things off immediately after seeing it.

[SPEAKER_01]: But it was still hard because there's still a sadness because dating is hard and it's hard to find people.

[SPEAKER_01]: And also, I don't think he got why I broke things off being honest.

[SPEAKER_01]: Sounds a little sad for him.

[SPEAKER_00]: What did you say again?

[SPEAKER_01]: To him.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I just said, I think we're in different parts of our healing journey.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I wish you the best of luck in your search.

[SPEAKER_01]: But it just wasn't meant to be.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's nothing to dwell on.

[SPEAKER_01]: It just was really awkward.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, we're forty in our early forties, like forty forty one.

[SPEAKER_01]: I shouldn't be like, oh, I can't, like, forward thinking.

[SPEAKER_01]: I can't go to my boyfriend's house because parents are there.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, and here I am owning my own home with my kids, like, you know, [SPEAKER_01]: very stable lifestyle and very settled.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I just, but to be fair, he had only been separated probably eight months.

[SPEAKER_01]: So he was just not there yet.

[SPEAKER_01]: Why don't even know if that's true.

[SPEAKER_01]: The number kept changing.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's a red flag.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, that's what's the other red flag.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I was like, okay, I'm done.

[SPEAKER_00]: So that's so huge because my pattern was if I made it to like, [SPEAKER_00]: a third date.

[SPEAKER_00]: I was in it to win it.

[SPEAKER_00]: I know longer was collecting information about whether or not this person was right for me.

[SPEAKER_01]: It just fell right, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: I decided, yeah, it was like, oh, you've chosen me for like three days.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, like you're my forever.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I think that's the hope that gets crushed, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: So when you see that flag, which in the past, I would have ignored.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it crushes you a little bit more than it should have because it's, it's like, do you abandon yourself or do you abandon them?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because there's a Patrick Tian quote that I'm obsessed with that, it's like, [SPEAKER_00]: a wounded inner child will never give up on a bad relationship's potential.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, and even a healed one that's never really healed will have this crazy sadness around it, you know, like not a logical set.

[SPEAKER_01]: Now the wound doesn't hurt as much when I like talked to someone for a week and I let them go, but it used to be like, oh, that sucks.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm so sad and it's like, you don't even know this person.

[SPEAKER_01]: And you've made this decision for a good reason.

[SPEAKER_01]: Why are you hurt?

[SPEAKER_01]: You know?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think like the biggest flex and like such a huge sign of healing is when we have these experiences and like the attraction level isn't where it was in the past.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like when you can start to find some of these behaviors as like actually unattractive.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, no.

[SPEAKER_01]: The minute this happened, my body went like, [SPEAKER_01]: from being like, I want this to, I want nothing to do with you within thirty seconds.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, thirty seconds.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, I'm never, my body's never shut off like that before.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, it was, it was amazing, actually, that our bodies can do that.

[SPEAKER_01]: But, I mean, I guess they always have, I just, it wasn't my, it was just like, it's just because someone suggests something, you don't have to do something.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I know that sounds counterintuitive, but my body was like frozen.

[SPEAKER_01]: about face forward march, find the door out.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, don't worry.

[SPEAKER_01]: When I walked out, his dad was still sitting there.

[SPEAKER_01]: Still said nothing.

[SPEAKER_01]: I was only there like, twenty minutes to be fair, but yes.

[SPEAKER_01]: No, that's good.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Still said nothing.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, oh, Chris.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, good.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's so weird.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I would have been like, we're gonna introduce me, like, [SPEAKER_00]: It was like, well, and then I guess he had to say something to them or did he even more than when he walked by?

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know because he ran in the house really quickly because he had to go potty.

[SPEAKER_01]: He said potty.

[SPEAKER_01]: He said peepy potty.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, I know you have little oxy.

[SPEAKER_01]: With that, with part of the not sexiness.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god, it's so good.

[SPEAKER_00]: Are you somebody that once felt like the only way that you would be happy is if you had a relationship?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, God, it's so huge to get to a place where you know that you'll be okay, no matter what.

[SPEAKER_01]: That and now I don't have a relationship and I have kids which would in the past that made me really judge myself.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, like I failed at that relationship and now I realize, no, I'm doing it.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm doing it all, like I have kids.

[SPEAKER_01]: I have the life I want.

[SPEAKER_01]: I have the household I want.

[SPEAKER_01]: I have a job that I want.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I'm taking care of my kids.

[SPEAKER_01]: I have my son and therapies.

[SPEAKER_01]: I have them in activities.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm trying to day by day teach them how to respect themselves, which is in muscle that I don't even, like, I have to force.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, wait, I should be doing this.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like I'm constantly [SPEAKER_01]: parenting myself to tell them to do the things for them that are not natural for me.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so final question is talk about what your experience has been like being a part of the community.

[SPEAKER_01]: Amazing because it's the only place that I come that you could say whatever you want.

[SPEAKER_01]: You really can embarrassing or not.

[SPEAKER_01]: Everyone, someone can either relate or just in general will accept you and not judge you.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like I've never felt judged and [SPEAKER_01]: That's big.

[SPEAKER_01]: I feel judged everywhere.

[SPEAKER_01]: Even if people aren't judging me, it's like, obviously, I'm not doing something right.

[SPEAKER_01]: Everyone must be talking about it.

[SPEAKER_01]: No, I'm just kidding.

[SPEAKER_01]: But in my head, that is a true thing.

[SPEAKER_01]: My mind would think, like, oh, someone's going to notice that I have a pimple.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, that's the end degree, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: Do I could show it to the community with my hair on my head or curlers in my hair or crying about [SPEAKER_01]: The dad ladybug outside.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just making something up, but it doesn't matter what I bring to the table.

[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like everyone cares and everyone gets it and I always learn something new from someone else there like an aha like, oh, I've experienced that or like [SPEAKER_01]: That's something, or I leave their thinking about something in two days later, having a ha, because I heard something.

[SPEAKER_01]: And even your podcasts are the same, every single podcast, even if it's one I cannot relate to at all, like, like, for example, I've never personally been a drinker, but like, if stuff comes up about it, I still learn something new about the people I, I grip on to, because somehow I always grip on to people that drink, or our addicts of some sort, and it makes me see a lot about myself in those capacities as well.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it's just such a gift like it really is like Alan on was amazing you got me started to got me to where I am, but your community really like like I feel like I could actually visit anyone in the community even if we've never met or talked on the phone.

[SPEAKER_01]: and have an amazing coffee and conversation in just have fun and chill.

[SPEAKER_01]: And if I went to, I don't know, New York and I wanted to look one of them up.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think anyone would care and they'd be like, yeah, let's have coffee and vice versa.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's really cool with a group of literal strangers.

[SPEAKER_01]: But don't feel like strangers anymore.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I think it's amazing what you've done.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it gives me goosebumps to think about.

[SPEAKER_01]: I tell people about your podcast all the time.

[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, only the people that I want to hear me speak because this could be awkward.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't really want to get back home to my parents because I never want to hurt their feelings, like, really.

[SPEAKER_00]: How do I get it?

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, you are such a beautiful example of what can happen when we do this work.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I hope you're really fucking proud of yourself.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I'm proud.

[SPEAKER_01]: I have moments where I don't realize that proudness because it's hard for me to be proud.

[SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, one foot in front of the other, every day is a new day.

[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.

[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.

[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.

[SPEAKER_01]: And thank you for all of being here.

[SPEAKER_01]: I can really pleasure.