Can I get it in the microphone.

That's a good one.

I think I'm going to pass out.

Like Brian Lara.

That's Intendorka Stephen wore.

You just don't say anything.

They go, was that right?

Well?

You know what I think?

Go back for two days today.

I think it's less than five times that I can remember that if we were bowling last that warning didn't get that job done.

You know, Reese's consistency will be that good.

Welcome Hills to becoming the first cricketer on the Sacked podcast.

There you are.

That sounds bad on it first cricketer on the Sacked podcast, Like, this's going to be few.

That's right.

But you've had a career, haven't you on and off the field.

But let's start at a strange place from outside.

And I shook your hand.

I thought, how did the hands finish up after that career?

Like?

What?

What?

What do you find?

I found a little bit of a something gave way.

I'm not sure what it was, and I thought it might have been your bottom finger.

I'll be honest, Well this finger you can feel it now you.

Are, Oh jeep, that's squeaked.

It squeaks, so it's got an artificial joint in me.

And they're like two little lego pieces with flat end, flat end with a spike that goes into that bone, and a spike that goes into that bone.

And the surgeon might have been ten years ago said to me.

I bumped into him, Mark Ross.

He said, would you mind?

You know how long have you had your joint now?

And I said, oh, I think I'm up to eleven years.

And he said, oh, what do you mind coming in and seeing us in the office?

Oh?

Why?

Why?

And he said, ah, it seems.

The lifespan and that joints about thirteen years.

We can get out of it anyway.

It was rock solid.

It's stuck in the hard and I'm now twenty four to twenty five years with it.

It's something that real elderly people, not just me, have for arthritic fingers.

I'll just try that squeak again, Try again.

Don't it's so hard, but I comfend it.

Yeah, I can hear that.

Can I get it in the microphone?

Good one?

That's a good one.

I think I'm going to pass out.

I SA this finger used to be the bad one.

So I broke it probably in both bones and two breaks in each and played with it, kept playing with it, went on the West Indies tour.

I hid it from nearly everyone.

The physio who was our doctor, etc.

And trainer Eron Orcott knew what he had was up against it.

He made me get an X ray so that he knew what was in there, and then we just took it easy for the first two weeks and then worked on our strapping techniques, and then from then on.

That was nineteen ninety five.

I would say, I.

Remember you got advice.

It was ninety one advice from the doctor.

I think this was in your diaries.

He said, do not play that series, and you said I have to.

And I remember in your diaries you said you couldn't even hit the ball into the net.

That's where I had to hide it from Bobby Simpson.

I had to act as if I'm working on my defensive show, and every now and then rarely put one on the line and play a cover drive.

And if you didn't hit it right in the middle, which was unusual for me, that it would hurt and jar badly.

What about Bob Simpson You mentioned him there and you said I kept it from Bob Simpson, but he was a Great House Detective.

Wasn't it old so and so?

And there were other times when you didn't keep things from him, wasn't it There wasn't there a famous incident where a nightclub was something you had to confess him.

What was that all about?

Great House Detective.

So we think he paid off the concierges, and the concierge would tell him who was last in last night, those sorts of things, and he seemed to know a lot more about us than we even knew about the others.

And then the next day at training.

That morning at training, he would pick that person and run them ragged and sometimes to the point of vomiting.

You know.

So in the heat of Madras and those in Colombo, someone was getting some punishment.

But for me, the one that you're talking about, this could have been a day where I was sacked too.

I got lucky with the rain.

The theme that'll come through here is how fortunate I've been, I bet.

But it was a rain delay in Adelaide and we're playing Pakistan and I'm sort of trying not to limp, but I'm limping because I really saw knee and the tablets haven't worked, and it was about the fifteenth day, I reckon it was a rain delay and we're off, We're in the dressing room and just sidles up to you there you go, what's it like out there today?

And you sort of come up with a big story.

You sort of sense where he's sniffing and yeah, bowling, Well it's coming out of his hand really well.

I think if we can just keep it tight in the next five over, if we might get an avalanche of wickets.

And he said, how are you moving?

I said, struggling.

Got this sore knee at the top of my knee cappy, you know, and how does that come on?

And I've just made a decision right there then I can't lie to him.

And we just finished a Test match in Perth, or a one day in Perth and we went to f Scott's which was a bar nightclub, and I was rap dancing.

I've done a big swan dive, you know.

The shwallow dive and bang and knee on the deck and really hurt.

And I said, oh, I did it in Perth.

We went to f Scotts and he probably knew we went there and and I banged it on the floor dancing rap dancing, He said, it's hard to feel sympathy for't it?

And yeah, I went, got two more panels.

I hope the rain would stay on for a little while, but out we went again, and yeah, the panet and kicked in and I was okay for the rest of the day.

So yeah, I told.

Him, But better that than lie, you like, had him find out.

Because he's such a good detective.

Yeah, don't go lying in a big way to someone who's a good detective and has a serious interesting finding the truth.

And he was.

You mentioned luck before, and you know, you know your career didn't rely on it at all.

But it was unusual at the start, wasn't you had chosen after a handful of first class games.

Greg Chappel said, I think that guy should test cricketer.

And I remember covering it.

It was April fools Day, wasn't it?

And it was just there was no paper that the next day wasn't there, So it was all a bit mysterious and murkhy, wasn't it?

Remember that well?

I certainly remember.

It's interesting that you do too, that the next day was not only April Fool's Day, it was Good Friday and so on.

March thirty first, I got a phone call from Queensland Cricket to tell me I was in the team.

And I didn't know there was a team being picked even and I said, no, no, no, no, no no.

I'm going to king Roi with Queensland next Saturday and we were opening the king Roy Sports Clubs and I was happy that they stuck with me Queensland because and Peter Anderson was now fit again.

That's who I was feeling in for.

And grantly Evans said, na, son, you're going to Pakistan?

What?

And yeah, yes.

It wasn't for another four months.

It was a September tour and it was March thirty first, at the end of the cricket summer that they picked the team.

And then the media.

Converged on Good Friday at home because they needed newspapers again on Saturday.

So yeah, everyone was quite surprised, to tell you the truth.

Dad didn't really believe it.

Dad had to bring up ABC and find that if it was real or not.

I said, Dad, I think I'm in the Isralian Cricket.

I said what.

And then everyone has had the same reaction, said what what tours on?

No one ever knew there was a tour, and I remember what you said when you went on your first tour and a tough tour is Pakistan always he's gosh first tour, but you said you were a little bit paranoid and even guys like Bernie with the Bernie look haunted you.

What did you mean by that?

I thought he hated me, did you?

And he's fielding at short leg for most of the Pakistan tour all three tests.

We're building a lot of spin, which a massive challenge for a brand new weekkeeper.

I kept okay to spinning, and I'd had Trevor Hanes and i had Gross Gallagher as a leg spinning junior, so it wasn't I was okay at it and did pretty well.

I was doing pretty well the first day of my test career.

I think Alan Border bowled sixteen over its.

Yeah, so that's the first day in Karachi when we had Peter Sleep and Peter Tato as well.

So I was up to the stumps a lot on that first day.

I took a great catch to start.

I caught I think it was Madassa, I don't know, it might have been Ramis Raja cross in front of first slip, and then all the boys, who I didn't really know, they said, geez, we've got a beauty here, and then I dropped two more.

They reckon.

I can only remember one, but I reckon.

I dropped two that afternoon, and they were off me of me first day, but for the rest of the two I got Bernie right here.

So I got a batsman in front of us, and Bernie's under the helmet.

And he's not the Alaric and be a swilling legend that Australians always perceive.

He's a very tightly held.

Man, doesn't let his emotions out, doesn't doesn't give you an impression exactly what he's thinking.

And he was just staring at me like that.

Under the helmet, and I thought, I take the helmet off him and put it up there on the spot.

There's no.

Chat, but there's no way Bernie would not like it.

Yeah, it's just the perception.

And he was just watching me to hope I go all right or something.

I don't know, but you thought you were a bit paranoid, probably, yeah.

Yeah.

It was all a swirl of nerves and our team didn't have a great attitude being in Pakistan and Javid was making a lot of runs and we thought we had him out LBW maybe twenty thirty times.

He made two hundred and we finally got him out of ALBW.

So yeah, it was.

All a bit of a stressful environment at the time that the team in my time, moving forwards in the teen years next was much better equipped to play better in the subcontinent.

Javia day, it was Casey sledged the fields with me like sort of yeah, it's going to you know, didn't He sort of one of the few batsmen that would actually sledge.

Fieldsman, Yeah he could, he could, and he Niggle big nerv didn't make that tour, my first tour of Pakistan, but he was on the scene.

Of course, he'd already played for Australia and he was just dropped and he was to come back and play a really crucial.

Role in our team.

But Javid would love just just walking between wickets, so knock one down the final leg for example, and just sort of start to jog and then ease off and walk.

And now he's getting level with merv who's in his follow through walking back that way with him, and he just touch him with the ball.

Really he's the fire.

Early in your career, like that was tough.

And then you came back to Australia and you played that West in his team with guys like Patrick Patterson and that, and it was carnage.

Wasn't like on spicy decks in Melbourne and whatever.

And Patrick I think might have even stormed into your room or something.

But it was that was intimidation plus, wasn't it.

Remember that?

Yeah?

I remember it vividly.

And Bruce Reid was the twelfth man.

And he's inside our dressing room, which is down in Dungeon in Melbourne, and the two dressing rooms are very similar, close together.

There's two doors, you know.

You go out of our door and generally it's left open, and then you walk down the corridor to the lunch room.

But this door, the away room, is generally left sharp.

And Patrick Patterson decided he's coming up the stairs from the grand stand through our viewing room, up the top and then down the stairs to our dressing room.

And Bruce reads in there.

We're not off the field yet and and he said.

Tell tell ab we sought our problems out tomorrow.

So Bruce, we get into the rooms and then Patrick goes out of our door into his door, right, and Bruce Reid standing there like he's still like six foot twenty and he's what's been happening out there?

Fellas?

Anyway?

Ab And it was it was Nerv's fault.

Got a b in trouble because Merv at the end of day four, this is he's finished his bowling spell, I think, and Steven Wore is bowling and trying everything, you know, Loopy's leggers and as well as bumpers and and everything, and Merv is at cover never Fields at cover, but he's got a baggy green on Never Fields in a baggy green and he's acting like Greg Chapel, walking with like the pole up up the behind and saying, come on, Doug, knock his head off, all this sort of stuff from cover.

Patrick Patterson steps back from batting and there's still goodon Greenwich.

He's at the other end because he's come he's come back from having retired hurt.

He's back in so they've still got a bit of ammo to go if they want to score runs.

And Patrick steps back and looks at Merv out there.

Ab is in first or sex second slip.

Probably he's sick of this time wasteing we get off the field.

Let's go, let's get this session done.

He steps forward and says to Patrick, he doesn't know what Merv's been up to over a cover.

And he says, just face up, mate, like hurry up and face up something to that that.

Regard.

And Patrick goes, you talk to me and hurry I made.

There's face up and we're ready to play.

And he says, and he said the same thing.

He says, with all this out tomorrow, you couldn't care.

He just stepped back.

And this wicket was very uneven, you know it was.

It was corrugated from the word go.

We did well to get them out on the first win.

The toss and bowl got them out.

We made a few and then they had a good enough league the four hundred in front of us, and they even batted on the next morning, and then we batted for most of the day five and made one hundred and twenty.

I think it's one hundred and fourteen.

And Ab was there for a long time.

Ab was out there like copying it all over here because balls were pitching in similar areas, two balls in similar areas, one would go at your helmet and oneted to shoot, you know.

So, so that was and I got hit in that the bad areas three times in times in the grain did two from I think Curtly, a brand new Curtly Ambrose and one from Courtney.

I noticed your ice watering?

Yeah, yeah, so and I was with Ab when that was happening.

AB's copient all uneven bounces getting hit right the in the side, and I'm getting hit in the in the crown jewels and I can't show any pain.

So it was that was a turning point for us.

We can't we can't have this again.

We've we've got to be as tough and skillful as we need to be to beat these bikes because they are.

A very proud team.

Well it was funny because from that point on, within six months or so, you're in England and that was the start of the turnaround, wasn't it.

The nineteen eighty nine ashes and you never lost a series to England and they were they were good times, weren't they.

Your ashes memories must be pure and very uplifting.

And you seem to have that team mentally, didn't you.

You seem to dominate.

Did you feel that, Yes, we did feel that, and we sort of giggled at them.

Their professional system, their full time cricket.

Right, so if you're a lawyer you wanted to be an lawyer and accountant, you can't play for England because you're not playing county cricket.

And they played six days a week.

You know, they might play a probably three day or in that stage and then a forty over match on the Sunday and then a one day match and another three day.

They just keep going non stop.

So their cricket was hard for the wrong reasons.

They start pacing themselves and not playing at full tilt because I've got a big game in three days time and there wasn't any rotation.

You just play, play for your money.

And we didn't like that system.

But now we've got it too, so we're jamming matches in everywhere at state level and it's very difficult to have any other profession but cricket.

So we were on top of them.

We knew that.

They didn't have a test match gear.

They're too busy pacing themselves to get through this.

Their workloads.

They weren't hardened in cricket.

They were hardened in playing cricket, but that's about it.

Well, I've never heard you say that before.

That's interesting.

So you feel Australia could be falling into the same trap that England did back of just consistent cricket, just sort of flat lining and no sting sort of thing.

Since that's the danger, it's a very big danger.

And now that we've got the Big Bash which takes the middle portion of our summer away, we're jamming four Shield matches one a week.

We used to play probably it would be more averaged out at one a fortnight and that's.

Why they were rock hard.

We were ready, blokes were hungry, bloaks were fresh again and it was really good.

Now I still love Sheffieldshield cricket and the standards that are being on display whenever we see it and whenever I go to a game.

So we've just got to be and we are resting and rotating Shield cricketers now because of this I've had.

Is that worrying you?

Would you like to see Steve Smith and these guys play more.

Or look at a thirty five year old doesn't really worry me, but I hope he does understand the value to young players of playing with Steve Smith.

Whether he makes a hundred or a duck, A young.

Player will learn a lot by Steven.

Steve Smith makes a duck.

How good's that?

There's a lot of learning that goes on in the way he gets ready for the game, the way he talks, and the way he his demeanor is around the dressing room during the game, and then how he copes with success and failure.

There's there's so much learning.

So I hope we never ever forget that, but yeah, it's it's a sign of the times that Australian first class cricketers, especially by olus, will need rotation at times when when they're brand new and young or on the on the older side.

So, and let's talk about Warny.

I heard you say the other day that he reminds you, well, Reese Walsh reminds you of of Warnie.

And where's that's an interesting comparison.

What do you see as the similarities there?

The great Broncos rugby league full back end, the greatest league's beenner of all time.

Well, I think Warning's probably had more expectation on him than Reese even because you know, we were totally we thought we were going to be okay because we got Warning.

Warning will dominate in Day five, Day four, Day five, in nearly every Test match we played and any venue in the world.

So Reese sometimes can't do it all on his own.

But Warning, it's the individual nature of cricket in a team environment that you know, gave us confidence.

And when the team are saying that, I man, you want the cricket world is saying that Australia will win this because they got Warning, and he deals with that.

He dealt with.

That pressure of expectation incredibly well.

I always say, I think it's less than five times that I can remember that if we were bowling last that Warning didn't get that job done.

That means getting, you know, helping our team get ten wickets to win a Test match.

And you know Reese's consistency will be that good.

You know he will, and he deals with the external pressures incredible well.

And you know, the Broncos and Australia if it's going to be in Queensland, if they're going to be they can't just leave it up to him.

They've got to set it up for Reese to make sure he as damaging and destructive that Warning was.

And they both love the spotlight they get the spotlight, don't they get the spotlight?

So now what are your choices to fight this or go with it?

Warning?

I think he was shy when he started, wouldn't he a little bit?

Then?

He was quite a knowledgeable old head on a young, chunky body, ain't yep?

He reminded me of a very skillful country cricketer who had played in the country regions successfully for many years.

And he's only twenty one, so I'm sure Reese has got that impression as well.

He talks like he's a pro.

He doesn't feel a pro, you know, I believe him when he's when he has to work hard at being that confident and that bigger professional.

What about warning the rock star like I remember ringing you once in a hotel room in South Africa nineteen ninety four, and he said, I'm rooming with Elvis Priestley And I said what he meant?

He said, I can't say I going to go And I've never asked you that your room with Warnie, But I remember you said, I'll tell you, lady, you never did.

What was Elvis?

At that point?

Elvis warned people would ring him you like locals like I've never had Warning for me got way too many phone calls on his mobile number.

For some reason, how they tracked that down.

I never found out.

But he was always sometimes getting like getting annoyed, like mate, like give us a break, like they were sometimes giving him bad not like a you know, abuse or you know, negative type phone calls.

And I said, well, what was that.

I don't know, I got my number.

You know, I've never had a not one stray phone call.

He would get at least one a day.

And of course it all started and you had the best view in the house of the most famous cricket ball ever bowled, the ball of the century ninety ninety three.

Shame worn to Mike adding.

First ball, Bailer's off, he's bowled him gatting, can't believe it.

First ball lethal.

I would have to say that that is the perfect leg spin delivery, curving and then spinning.

And when you produce at first ball, I can understand the batsman being not only surprised but very upset.

Tell us something we don't know about Warning's bowling.

That you thought, you know that which is sent from behind the sticks one meter away from the batsman.

Well, that ball in particular, we.

Didn't know a whole lot about him until just before then.

I'm pretty sure we went to New Zealand prior to the Ashes, and gee, he bowls some big spinning balls and he bowled Kenny Rutherford around his legs.

We've never seen this before, like a batsman.

The balls drifts in here, bounces well outside his legs, he comes around behind his back side and bowls him In a Test, We've never seen that.

We've been through a reasonably lean spinning time in Australian cricket on the last day.

It was not automatic that Australia would win a Test with our normal spinners, whether that b Peatch of Sleep or Peter Taylor or Bruce Hardley.

In the day, teams could survive against Australia, but gee, where they just can't.

They couldn't against Warning because he had great control.

You know, to have that a shape into a right hander and landed where he wants it to land for hours is his great skill.

His accuracy is and control of that swing and the amount of spin he then puts on it so he can he can very spin, so side spin and then more overspin and then a wrong which he'd hardly ever bowled and then a flipper that comes underneath the hand.

He can control most of it for most of the day.

And that's very, very rare for a leg spinner.

So and as you said, for all the kids that were trying to buy legspin in that era and that generation, what's it delivered to the game of first class career?

No, he's so good.

It's so hard, and he was so good.

But with all that shape and spin that there are great skills, But his accuracy is the key.

What about warning the person heels?

So I know it's hard Christinashi, But I often wonder whether he found true contentment in life, you know, because fame sort of got him and swamped him, didn't it.

And he was a prisoner of it as much as he put up with it and all that, and I get it, But I wonder whether he's really content you know, you know, what did you make for it all?

He's pretty restless, and I think that's his He was always he always enjoyed what he was doing.

Yep.

So that might be contentment.

And then he go and try he'd get out of his comforsa his manager might say, oh, that's such and such, one should try and do this and that, what you don't go in the jungle and stuff like.

That just got to a numb place.

Spinn come on, what was that?

And you go and do that?

And then he'd performed very well and give the impression that he's really enjoying.

That's what he was like every day.

You know, he enjoyed every day of his life.

But the and the other thing is I think a similarity between Reese and he is they're both vulnerable and their question askers, right, they ask was that okay?

You know, you say that to your warning.

He'd come off the f from one of the great bowling performances ever, you know, might bowt thirty overs and keep the score down to seventies, you know, economy to seventy or thirty eighths of legsmen and get three wickets, and he.

Say was that okay, yes, mate?

It was unbelievable.

Wow.

And that's I've heard that recently.

That's one of the great qualities of geniuses, you know, they ask for feedback.

I suppose I should go true or false with warning, true or false?

He was.

He was not a bigger drinker, as people said.

You had the Larkin image, but he didn't drink that much true true or false?

He never really liked the food in India and he would order pizzas in is.

That true or no?

But he ordered baked beans in India is the biggest bean producer in the world.

And he gets a shipment of hinds comes in because heines are.

After the arrival into Mumbai or whatever it was, they said, a palette of high baked beans over and he went with them, and them not all of them, but they're the ones he ate.

Whereas on the buffet the Mao Maries had beans every day, but he mustn't liked it, and just bread like it, the nanbreads and those sorts of breads with his own vegemite and buta, and sometimes I bet he had some chicken ticker, but generally there'd be a spaghetti bolognised.

Maybe.

Yeah, he struggled to find even his variety of food that he wanted on a lot of tours.

What about sledging hills and you know you always had their reputation be quick on the lip with a humorous bent, And was it true?

Mike Athertin claimed that his favorite all type sledge was Nasa, saying at border field when you urge the fieldsmen to come in.

Is that right?

It was in Cairns.

I've heard NASA tell the story.

I had forgotten about it.

And when we played England the series all went well for us, you know, every now and then they beat us in a test.

But at the end of the series they could quote everything we said to them and we couldn't.

So that we were just cruising through and living our life, traveling around England winning and was just.

Great times for us.

But yeah, apparently it was in Cairns when Queensland played England and I moved warning Laurie said, Laurie, come in right under under this foke's nose.

Yeah, and it was deep cover.

And that got you know, he's well known for him as I was.

Yeah, he remembers it.

But you used to do other things like remember for Kepler vessels you said you would it wasn't personal sledging, you'd fire him up.

You said you just talked to him.

Is that right?

Subtly distracting, keep the conversation going.

I don't think I wouldn't talk to Keipler.

Really, it's too hard, you know, although and he could he could bat for long periods and not get out.

He probably wouldn't hurt you.

He would be in a defensive mode.

But I want him trying to get the run rate going and he might play at a wide one.

But if I get his if I stir his resolve, he's not playing that shot.

I need him playing away from his body more than just being the barnacle like a Brian Lara SATs in Tendlka Stephen wore.

You know, you just don't say anything because oh, yeah, they go, is that right?

Well, you know what I think, go back for two days today and head down.

I hope the captain didn't hear that.

Whereas who was someone who you think?

No, he's worth a church, this guy.

I'm sorry, there's not many.

There's none at the top level, and I'm a d engage on it because I basically went from club cricket, where there's a fair bit of band Norse, my club in Brisbane playing against South into it right to State cricket without sort of just having my eyes opened.

Not much going on there, maybe a blow up or two with a bowler, got frustrated with a batsman and then to Test level, right, So.

What about that was?

Because that was a famous one where you said you can't have a runner.

For being unfit.

Yeah, yeah, he said I got cramp.

He said, you've got a cramp because you have a little at you, you know, and you know, and he and I were mates.

You know, his first cousin lives in Brisbane and you know, I catch up.

He was catching up with that lot.

Oh really and you go quite hard at your mates.

It's like club cricket again.

And he marked back and you know he wasn't.

He blew up in a one day International just before we went to the World Cup where our pre tournament camp was going to be in Colombo.

Yeah, and.

We had to have our camp somewhere else because there was a bit going through the mail, you know, a few threats and did it stretch back to the well it was a week ago, yeah, yeah, yeah, that was part of it.

Darryl Hair the umpire that year he got he got called in the Melbourne Boxing day Test.

It was.

It was quite a aggressive series, full stop and that night I blew up at Ada.

We won the World Series Cup to nil and so that was that was it.

That the one day comp was over.

They didn't shake hands and then that would have inflamed their supporters over and home and thinking it.

Was our fold all to them.

There was nothing we've done that wrong and anyway it cost us our camp in Colombo.

We chose Columbo because we loved Columbo and we loved the Strie Lincolns and loved playing them.

And they love playing us.

Anyway, it was a very disrupted preparation for the ninety six World Cup and then guess what we fore fit the first game in Colombo Carto, we were down to play Sri Lanka.

I think we met Sri Lanka in the final.

Oh yes, you know we desperately wanted to win, but didn't they beat us?

You know it was it was a very tumultuous time.

And he was, what about your the way your career finished.

You played your last test?

Is him babwe?

You wanted a farewell test at the Gabba and you famously met with Trevor Holnes, didn't you And we've denied that request.

Tell it, tell us the story.

This is the sack bit isn't?

Yeah?

Yeah, this is it?

Yeah, my last hour was it was quite a tough year.

We've finished with England in Australia.

Mark Taylor retires, We've still got a Sri Lankan and a West Indian West Indian Sri Lankan to us.

You know, they're hard.

Merrily.

It was a real handful Merrily.

When he started used to have that flicking type action, but the ball would only spin one way.

And about five years into his career he started to work on one that went straight same flick, but big spinner that way and straight on.

So batsmen were if he couldn't pick it.

Batsmen were just trying to hit with the spin, claim like it was going to be an off spinner.

But then he took another year or two and he got one that go that way, you know, and little for a while, and you know, the word around the cricket world is doesn't spin that much.

You know, you're still okay.

And then he got it to spin more.

I still don't know how you do that and get a ball to spin that way.

And that's where you know, he was a handful for me.

The batsman would say to you, after about fifteen or twenty minutes, you're fine, it's no problem.

How do we get through that?

Yeah, So I was just sweeping.

And as soon as you start sweeping at everything mirrorly is as his intuition was as good as warnings.

I know exactly you can't read me, and he just right, you go there, you move there, you more and he can land that ball with the accuracy of warning.

So that was hard then Zimbabwe to finish.

I just hope at the time I was, I knew I was a bit off.

My practice enjoyment was down.

West Indies is a hard to tough practice facilities and I needed to practice a lot to get my confidence with the bat and I wasn't getting it.

I wasn't finding ways to work it hard enough on my batting.

So my batting was off, my keep keeping was fine, and get to Zimbabwe batting still off.

It still didn't come good.

I'm really not enjoying training or even the competition now, the pressure and the strain and getting jobs done.

But the next test, after a small off season was Brisbane.

I made back to back hundreds at Brisbane and I know the work I'm going to do to get right for Brisbane and I'll be fine.

So I asked Alan Border, who's our coach at the time.

He was feeling in for Swampy, who was dealing with a bereavement of a mate, and I said, I had a long chat with A B and a B.

I said, look, tonight, when you're talking to the selectors, could you when you're picking this team in Harari, could you just ask if I could play Brisbane and finish?

And I said, my pretty good idea.

I was confident that I could get my batting back.

But you know, understanding as well that I'm down, and I swear he's never really come out and sort of said it, but I got the got the thumbs up.

At dinner, at the team dinner.

Oh by the way, yeah, I don't know.

Well, I hope he was doing it to me.

Yeah, I've misread it.

If it wasn't.

And so I didn't make any announcements.

But that turned out to be my last test.

And then got back from Zimbabwe and spoke with Trevor Hoones and National selecting chairman.

He said, I gave him my story of bad Zimbabwe and he said, I, no, no, I haven't heard about that.

It's still the same.

That still the same, We're thinking the same.

What's that should I that will give you the chance to retire?

Oh?

What?

But in the background, in the head, it's a, well, I don't have to go to training.

Yeah, I knew I was gone.

I was I'd had enough, but I thought this Brisbane Test will be fun.

I like sports people retiring on the field.

I won't let anyone down.

Everyone's pretty happy that to let me play, to have me play anyway, that was it done.

So I've got a brand new baggy green, got it ready for the last test, you know, and didn't have to use it.

Have you still got it?

Yeah?

Of course.

Yeah.

Isn't that amazing that the souvenir of the baggy green which which you thought you gotta wear again and never never wore?

Right, No, it's I would have shaped it up, warned just getting it ready.

I thought, I'm I had it ready in Zimbabwe.

So if they came back and said, no, you're off, I would have worn it.

Then my last test would have been in a Hurrari would have had a good time with the boys, et cetera, et cetera.

But didn't have to do that, and no one else knew what I was thinking, and other than maybe and yeah, I stuffed it up somehow.

How do you sit now looking back and at it?

You're comfortable with what happened or were you're dirty?

Or are you sort of.

Not as dirty as dad?

D would go looking for the selectors and I got beautiful support from around Australia and Queensland.

Definitely lots of conjecture over what should it have been.

Done or not?

Was I dirty?

I just not as dirty as I thought?

It was just dumb, you know, why the hurry?

Yeah, I'll be right.

I could retire a waving to my home crowd on a ground that I'd made one hundred the last two years on and that made sense to me, And so I just thought it was a dumb decision.

And then I finished.

Gillie starts the second test.

You know, was there any rush?

Yeah?

Yeah, not really so so and then you know, you know, a fair few players since have had a run around the country, not just their home ground, and been underachieving around the country.

So and I'm sort of still a bit romantic about it.

I'm less likely to say that like should go.

Than run it out?

Yeah, run it out, you know, but yeah, I'm not an aggressive accor.

That's interesting, and you faced you played the generation where there was some staggeringly good bowlers and going through your past thorughts that have been published.

The two which seems to stand out was Macram and Malcolm Marshall.

Who's the top seed?

And why?

As you know, there's Ambros, there's Marshal, there's Ghana, there's all these guys.

Who's the Who's the I think was him?

Oh really?

Because he seemed to bowl at me like he bowled at the best.

Malcolm couldn't care less about me really so.

But the similarities were short, fast run ups, fast arm, great skill, away swing in swing, yorka bouncer, very subtle changes and because of their short sharp run ups, they can bowl long spells, they can bowl for long period But was him just gave it everyone like swinging dumper that you could just feel is really at you and trying to get you out even though the conditions are flat.

Malcolm, quite often I'd be batting with Alan Border.

Malcolm to Alan Borter was a different person than Malcolm to me and quite often one day and Guyana really stands out to me.

Ab is coppying it like Malcolm's.

He had a really high pitched squeal if he thought he had you.

You know, he's all over ab AB's swaying out of the way dark and I'm near on the other end and Ab gets run off the body down to find leg and I'm now on strike and I get a four followed by a second four half follies on my legs up and get to the middle with ab.

Ab said, have I got to bounce me on my helmet or something?

He was just and I said, mate, it's not that hard.

And yeah, Malcolm, oh yeah, he's off on me for sure as well.

They had some in striking characters, didn't they like Curtly Ambrose.

Did he ever speak to you at all?

Did you get in the out of him?

Because they reckon?

He just brushed, but he.

Wasn't bad with his No, the answer is no.

I don't think Curtly ever spoke to me voluntarily.

Like morning he might get a morning at him if he's walking to his group past you as you're doing some practice.

Maybe he can't remember it, but you know, he wasn't bad.

He wasn't nasty or anything like that, but he just didn't speak, just hard to face every day.

He bounced back.

If you get him yesterday with on a flat wicket and going right, the area is again he's given his best and a lot of people don't know this.

Probably that the best place to play those great fast ballers was in the West Indies.

The crowds were a bit biased and a bit hard to handle at times, but the wickets were the flattest and most passid compared to Australia.

It's your best.

Chance to make runs against them and bring them out to Australia.

They would be so excited to get on those planes.

I get to Australia in the bounce that they can achieve on every wicket around the country, It's unbelievable.

But Curtly.

I had to ring Curtly once.

Oh, did you remember Steve Waugh and he was in his grill like, yes, Stephen was going on that and Curtly was right here looking into his grill.

Well, I made of mine, developed a photograph of that.

Oh, and he's used me to ring Curtly to sign them.

Would you sign fifteen hundred of these things or whatever it was.

I've still got one.

I was still hanging up and Steve or I got Steve to agreed to it, of course, and then I have to ring Antiguer.

So I had to get my times right.

And now I'll ring it Curtly.

I'm so scared.

I was sweating.

Anyway, I rang and that the phone picked up and he said speak Seah Heally here from Australia.

He man, yeah, he.

Says, yeah, no worries, I'll give you this cut.

You know I had the deal for him.

Yeah, you know this photo has been Were you nervous, Oh, totally nervous, you know, but I knew I had a gift for him.

I was going to give him a bit of money if he signed these photos and they sell, well, this is how much you're going to make.

And so at least had a bit of a gift.

Speaking of money, you probably retired just before the big money sort of hit cricket or whatever.

And I remember you're saying, you know what sort of And some guys did you other professions when you started?

Didn't they?

You're a school teacher yourself.

Yeah, But like what were sort of guys on in the late nineteen nineties, Like what sort what did it go from?

What?

What it changed?

The decision was made that the players we're going to share revenues, like a revenue share model with Cricket Australia.

That was decided in ninety seven and it was going to come in ninety nine.

I retired in ninety nine.

I was asked to retire in ninety nine.

So our whole objective was to try to own our houses before we finish, you know, So that was good.

I think I was on a contract two hundred by the end, and Alan Border, for example, in ninety four.

Things moved.

Between ninety four and ninety seven, our players Association became much more robust and committed, so the senior players were involved as well as we had Tim made to run it for us, and so Alan Border in ninety four when he retired, I think was on seventy five thousand contract and the closest to him might have been Jeff marsh on thirty, you know.

So we were all way down there.

But between ninety four and ninety seven that went up to two hundred sort of the senior players and then but no negotiations or anything like that.

That's what you get.

And then in ninety nine it really opened up to share the revenues of the game upsides as well as downsides.

But there hasn't been a downside that has gone below the floor that would change the player contracts at this stage.

Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it.

Of course it all started for you and Billy Wheeler, didn't it.

Dad never was a bank manager and they were.

And I wonder if kids now with phones will ever have the muscle memory that you had of playing ten million games in backyard cricket.

Yeah, it's good call.

I think how good cricketers are still there, but they're probably getting coached more than we did.

We played and you know, you go.

Through the ABC program and your England and your older brothers Australia and this particular week and you're bat left handed if it's John Edridge, or right handed if it's Alum Not comes into bat next.

So you've just got a lot of dreaming done and muscle memory and skills left handed, right hand, thinking about a Test match dreaming three.

I don't think we ever dread that one day you're going to be there.

But you wanted to be a good cricketer and the system of cricket was good in Queensland cricket.

For Billa Wheeler boy.

To make the Queensland under twelve team, under thirteen's forteens or sometimes it when thirteens fifteen sometimes twelve fourteens and an age group would change.

So yeah, you know, to represent Central Queens and go to a state carnival and all the teams are there, and so a country kid could compare myself to the city kids once a year, and I knew that I was probably good enough.

So that system being so good, you then can come to Brisbane, which you know ultimately have to do to get into first grade cricket in the big city.

You sort of came with a reputation and people were looking out for you, so and you felt like you were good enough because the system has told me I'm supposed to be pretty good.

And just my last one Hills, you've given so much to cricket.

I've never seen a bloke be more generous.

It's time in honorary capacities.

And also you've headed off into the business world with hoppies, car wash, radiosn and a few other things.

So just on that business angle, there's a push to privatize the Big Bash.

Do you support it?

What your feelings about?

Are you concerned?

Oh?

I mean it's got to proceed with caution.

How much is it worth?

Who's valuing it?

And how do you come at that value, and then what are you going to do with that money, you know, to secure our sport for fifty years and maybe even longer, and where do we put that money?

And I'm sort of suspicious that someone's not going to come in by half the Big Bash or a Big Bash franchise for a lot of them money and have Cricket use it for Sheffield Shield and tests.

To prop up the whole game.

There's going to be pressure on to use that money for that competition, the Big Bash.

So I'm all for it, but they're the things that have got to be sorted out.

How much are we going to get and then what are the plans with that money and what control are we giving up?

So in Surrey, I think it is in England the minority shareholder and this has been done in England just eighteen months ago.

They've sold off minority shareholdings, but in some instances total sold the whole club.

Right, the Northern Superchargers are the one, but even the minority shareholders can sign up.

We want to pick the coach and you either agree to things or you don't, and so that's what happens at Surrey.

I just we've got to sort out all the loopholes, the potential loopholes and control areas between your two your new partners.

And you know so some unpopular partners might want to pay heaps of money yep.

Or do you go much more.

Reconciliable partner that you'll get along with really good for less a bit less money and what's enough.

So there's there's a lot of things to go under that bridge to ship, but I generally support it.

Well, then we could talk for hours.

It's been wonderful to have you on.

What a career you've had, what a life you've had, and thanks for joining us on.

Sacked you still spin a good yarn.

It's a bad word.

Now he's sacking me.

Well done, pleasure, Thanks you