1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:01,760 Pepper spray really does work, 2 00:00:01,760 --> 00:00:05,720 but what worries me is people placed too much reliance on it. 3 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:06,960 It's like anything else. 4 00:00:06,960 --> 00:00:09,360 There's people that it just doesn't affect at all. 5 00:00:09,360 --> 00:00:11,040 And there's people that can fight through it. 6 00:00:11,040 --> 00:00:14,680 So you need to realize that it's not the end all, be all, 7 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:15,760 and you may spray somebody 8 00:00:15,760 --> 00:00:18,800 and they'll run off or just melt into a puddle of quivering goo. 9 00:00:18,840 --> 00:00:22,160 There's also a chance that they may get really angry and really try 10 00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:25,160 to strangle you, or stab you or whatever. 11 00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:40,560 Hi there. 12 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:43,640 Welcome to this episode of the Guns Podcast, U.S., 13 00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:46,280 brought to you by guns magazine. 14 00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:47,840 I'm your host, Brant Wheat. 15 00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:48,560 I'd like to thank you 16 00:00:48,560 --> 00:00:52,160 for joining one of the world's biggest audio and video gun talk programs. 17 00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:54,960 As we chat about the interesting stuff that makes up the. 18 00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:56,640 World of shooting. 19 00:00:56,640 --> 00:01:00,960 Today I'm joined by our official, unofficial, official unofficial co-host, 20 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:01,800 Rory Huntington. 21 00:01:01,800 --> 00:01:04,680 So hey, Royce, thanks for joining us yet again. 22 00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:05,800 You bet. Always fun. 23 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:09,760 Well, today I came up with this idea, and it 24 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:14,360 it was sparked by being on the internet and seeing a advertisement. 25 00:01:14,360 --> 00:01:19,440 A paid advertisement, of course, for a self-defense slingshot. 26 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:21,640 Yes, you heard that right. 27 00:01:21,640 --> 00:01:25,360 A slingshot that they talked about hunting with it and target practice. 28 00:01:25,360 --> 00:01:28,800 But, you know, even the last ditch self-defense kind of thing. 29 00:01:29,320 --> 00:01:34,320 And I thought, you know, I've seen a lot of really bad ideas for self-defense. 30 00:01:34,320 --> 00:01:37,160 And I thought it might be fun to call Roy up. 31 00:01:37,160 --> 00:01:38,520 And we're going to talk about that. 32 00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:41,760 So I've got my list divided into to two different, 33 00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:45,360 kind of areas, one which is just really bad ideas. 34 00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:49,080 And then we'll talk about the ideas that can be okay 35 00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:52,800 or awful depending on the circumstance and the situation and all that. So, 36 00:01:54,360 --> 00:01:56,640 Roy, I think this one is going to be kind of fun. 37 00:01:56,640 --> 00:01:57,440 And I know, 38 00:01:57,440 --> 00:01:59,200 you know, you've been in the shooting business 39 00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:01,960 even longer than I have and you've seen your share of things, 40 00:02:01,960 --> 00:02:05,000 but let's talk about the slingshot right out of the gate. 41 00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:09,120 Now, having actually, I think before we start talking about the slingshot, 42 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:13,280 I need to add that caveat of if a slingshot is all you have 43 00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:16,600 and you're in a lethal force situation, 44 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:20,800 I suppose I might launch that steel baby into somebody's forehead. 45 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:22,440 If I'm capable of it. 46 00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:29,040 But 99.9999% of the times, it ain't going to happen and ain't going to work. 47 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:30,440 But, anyway. 48 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:33,960 So we're not saying these ideas are absolutely, positively 49 00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:37,200 horrible ideas, but they are most of the time. 50 00:02:37,200 --> 00:02:38,040 So anyway, Roy, 51 00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:40,160 am I wrong? 52 00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:42,320 You probably have a self-defense slingshot. 53 00:02:42,320 --> 00:02:47,200 Or maybe a pair of them, you know, left and right hip and maybe a cross drawer. 54 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:50,320 I guess if your name's David and the bad guys. 55 00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:51,920 Goliath. This is true. 56 00:02:51,920 --> 00:02:53,640 Didn't even think of that. 57 00:02:53,640 --> 00:02:56,640 And you have one of those sling things and you know how to do it. 58 00:02:56,680 --> 00:02:57,600 I saw those. 59 00:02:57,600 --> 00:03:00,960 There is a whole new generation of tactical slingshots. 60 00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:02,840 And for all these other things. 61 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:06,120 And I saw one, I saw one that and that's fine. 62 00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:08,600 They're a lot of fun. You and I had I had oh, yeah. Know. 63 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:10,200 Yeah, yeah. And you're shooting. 64 00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:11,640 You're really hard to shoot. 65 00:03:11,640 --> 00:03:13,800 Well, and usually you miss stuff, right? 66 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:15,160 Yeah. 67 00:03:15,160 --> 00:03:18,160 But I think the best one I saw was that it had a laser on it. 68 00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:19,960 Exactly. 69 00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:23,480 And so it's like, how does that work? 70 00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:28,160 So you've got the, the little rubber band thing that gives moves all around. 71 00:03:28,160 --> 00:03:28,920 Right. 72 00:03:28,920 --> 00:03:33,000 And then you have a laser that's pointing in some direction high, you know. 73 00:03:33,640 --> 00:03:37,000 Well I have a story about that and I, I'm not sure 74 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:39,920 I don't think it's the same product they've, they've recycled. 75 00:03:39,920 --> 00:03:42,400 But like 15 years ago I was just shot show 76 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:45,400 with my friend Ken Campbell, who's the, CEO of Gun Site. 77 00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:47,640 And Ken likes to argue. 78 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:50,520 So we were we were talking to this person and they were 79 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:54,240 I believe Chinese and English was not their first language. 80 00:03:54,240 --> 00:03:56,320 So they would you like. 81 00:03:56,320 --> 00:04:00,560 You know, I won't imitate the accent, but would you like to see this this, 82 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:02,720 slingshot or like. Okay, 83 00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:07,240 laser and and hit hit were aim. 84 00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:11,680 So Ken says, so you're telling me, regardless of what the projectile is 85 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:14,680 or the distance, you just put that laser and it hits there? 86 00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:20,160 No, that's not how ballistics works. 87 00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:21,920 I'm sure it, you know, 3 or 4ft. 88 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:24,800 That's probably pretty accurate, but they really, 89 00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:27,800 that was one of their main sell points, that you put that laser 90 00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:31,960 100 yards away, that little rock, or be not a hit. 91 00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:36,560 What you, you aim at, and I will say, you know, a, I don't know, 40 or 50 92 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:42,240 caliber hard steel Bebe in the forehead probably would be lethal or close to. 93 00:04:42,480 --> 00:04:45,240 But, you know, there's some other problems 94 00:04:45,240 --> 00:04:48,280 they don't talk about, which is reloading is really slow. 95 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:51,480 As we've already said, aiming is pretty awful. 96 00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:55,520 And if you're not really accurate with it, which you're not with a sling shot, 97 00:04:56,080 --> 00:04:59,160 I wouldn't really put much faith in that. So, 98 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:03,400 Roy, you probably made him out of, 99 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:04,800 y shaped branches 100 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:07,800 and inner tubes, which I've done. Do. 101 00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:11,640 Actually, I never did because I really, I yeah, I looked at that 102 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:13,640 and I said, well, that's crude and ridiculous. 103 00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:15,040 So I'm not going to do that. 104 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:19,120 But I did do my share of, you know, cut out plywood ones and yeah, 105 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:20,480 metal ones and a few, 106 00:05:20,480 --> 00:05:23,480 but that's well, all I really learned was that these are stupid. 107 00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:23,880 Yeah. 108 00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:28,240 And I think, you know, earlier when you said if the only thing you have 109 00:05:28,440 --> 00:05:31,600 is a slingshot in a defensive situation, 110 00:05:31,960 --> 00:05:34,960 well, then you're pretty screwed. 111 00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:37,080 You know, I'm sorry, man. 112 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:39,320 I think you just hit hit it right on the head, right? 113 00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:42,600 I mean, find a big rock, you know, or run 114 00:05:42,600 --> 00:05:46,320 and hide and scream like a girl, you know? 115 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:49,160 I mean, it's like, let's be realistic here. 116 00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:51,600 You have some other. Listen, like a bow. 117 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:52,800 Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. 118 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:54,640 I mean, that's that's next on my list. 119 00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:59,280 And this will inspire 1 or 2 hateful comments on YouTube, I guarantee it. 120 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:03,200 I'm not saying I've taken deer with bows. 121 00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:07,080 A crossbow is really accurate and really deadly. 122 00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:11,000 I'm not saying that it's not, but let's stop and think about this. 123 00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:15,280 Kids, the reason they use them, say, in the Middle Ages, is that's what they had. 124 00:06:15,280 --> 00:06:17,360 That was the most advanced technology. 125 00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:19,880 But we have moved on from there. 126 00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:24,920 So again, if you're Burt Reynolds and a mountain man is getting ready 127 00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:28,560 to sodomized your canoeing partner, and all you've got is a bow. 128 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:30,760 Okay, I get it. 129 00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:33,400 But planning on using a bow 130 00:06:33,400 --> 00:06:38,040 intentionally for self-defense just seems like a really awful idea 131 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:41,120 that a few people are still in love with so. 132 00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:43,440 Well, and I. Because I know what's going to happen. 133 00:06:43,440 --> 00:06:46,440 Because we'll have bow fanboys, you know, and all that. 134 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:47,840 So I should have. 135 00:06:47,840 --> 00:06:49,640 Which seems odd, but yeah, okay, I get it. 136 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:52,200 No, I mean, I shoot a bow, I have an English longbow 137 00:06:52,200 --> 00:06:53,400 and I really enjoy shooting it, 138 00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:57,160 but it's certainly not the first thing I would pick up to defend my house. 139 00:06:57,440 --> 00:06:57,640 Yeah. 140 00:06:57,640 --> 00:07:01,680 I mean, if I was out deer hunting and then was accosted by a bad guy 141 00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:05,880 who is determined to kill me, I would shoot him with my bow if I could. 142 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:07,720 Right. You know? Yeah. 143 00:07:07,720 --> 00:07:08,040 I mean, 144 00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:11,400 unless I had a revolver in my pocket and that I would shoot him with the bow 145 00:07:11,400 --> 00:07:13,080 and then I would shoot him with the revolver. 146 00:07:13,080 --> 00:07:17,840 So, yeah, I mean, it depends on the situation, but, I think a lot 147 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:22,440 all these things we're talking about are last resort weapons. 148 00:07:22,720 --> 00:07:24,120 You know, I know 149 00:07:24,120 --> 00:07:27,960 I've owned sailboats and other boats in amongst the sailing community. 150 00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:30,640 Flare gun 151 00:07:30,640 --> 00:07:33,640 as a defensive gun is very much a thing 152 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:37,800 because, you know, if you're sailing to Belize or someplace 153 00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:40,920 and you're technically not allowed to have a gun on your boat, 154 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:43,920 well, then, I mean, I'm not sure 155 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:48,200 I'd want to be shot with a 12 gauge flare gun, and, you know, so that it 156 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:51,960 maybe if that's all you have, that's the Samaritan actually. 157 00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:55,760 There there is or people or they used to and they made an insert 158 00:07:55,760 --> 00:07:59,160 so that you could shoot like four, ten shotgun shells at him. 159 00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:01,200 That's so you're 160 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:04,040 I guess you were supposed to hide that on your boat or something, you know? 161 00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:08,040 But but again, it's a weapon of of, opportunity, you know? 162 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:11,280 I mean, you were talking about 163 00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:14,760 batons and blow guns and, you know, and there were some other things there, too. 164 00:08:14,840 --> 00:08:17,040 I mean, even a big sheath knife. 165 00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:18,120 Yeah. For me. 166 00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:20,280 Well, you're you're going ahead. 167 00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:21,880 You're running ahead of me, Roy. 168 00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:23,280 Oh. All right. Yeah. 169 00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:25,720 I was going to say the flare gun. 170 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:28,320 I actually, arrested a guy, and I. 171 00:08:28,320 --> 00:08:31,200 It wasn't for carrying the gun because the flare gun. 172 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:34,160 Because we weren't sure where that actually fell. 173 00:08:34,160 --> 00:08:37,320 But he carried a flare gun because he was a convicted felon. 174 00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:42,160 And his argument, and I don't know how it worked out, was that wasn't a firearm. 175 00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:45,720 Well, whatever we we hooked him up for, I think warrants or something. 176 00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:47,320 But no, I'm like you. 177 00:08:47,320 --> 00:08:49,920 I known guys that at least say they've carried him. 178 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:52,920 I'm trying to think I saw a YouTube channel. 179 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:56,440 Not that you can absolutely believe everything on YouTube, haha. 180 00:08:56,800 --> 00:09:00,400 But, a guy fired one into ballistic gel and it didn't go in. 181 00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:04,400 I mean, less than an inch because they're not made to penetrate anything. 182 00:09:04,560 --> 00:09:07,200 They're basically a ball of burning, 183 00:09:07,200 --> 00:09:09,840 sulfur and, you know, typically like magnesium. 184 00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:14,840 And yeah, I would not want to take one to the face or the, the body or whatever, 185 00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:19,400 but saying it's going to stop somebody, they're not going to feel good. 186 00:09:19,520 --> 00:09:22,440 And I'll probably have to go to the burn ward, but unless they're, 187 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:26,160 maybe covered in gasoline, that's not really a good option. 188 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:29,760 I would call it maybe a decent distraction device, but, 189 00:09:30,120 --> 00:09:33,720 I was on a charter boat one time where a sailboat came in right behind us, 190 00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:38,720 and the captain pulled out his flare gun, and, as he called them, rag baggers 191 00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:42,920 when they saw that, and he was aiming at their big giant sail, they veered off. 192 00:09:42,920 --> 00:09:45,480 So I guess it does have a deterrent effect. 193 00:09:46,520 --> 00:09:47,040 That's right. 194 00:09:47,040 --> 00:09:49,640 I never thought of that before. Yeah. 195 00:09:49,640 --> 00:09:53,160 He said you know back then anyway this has been 30 or 40 years ago. 196 00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:55,280 Yeah. The sails will go up real fast. 197 00:09:55,280 --> 00:09:58,480 So they don't want to, to to mess with that. 198 00:09:58,480 --> 00:10:01,160 So I, you know, I don't wait, but I don't know that a sail 199 00:10:01,160 --> 00:10:04,920 would go up too fast because yeah, I yeah, I don't know if you did. 200 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:08,240 I mean, yeah, synthetic maybe if you had a linen sail or something. 201 00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:09,080 Yeah. You know. 202 00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:11,520 But even then, you know, those things are moving, 203 00:10:11,520 --> 00:10:13,280 you know, a couple hundred feet per second and. 204 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:13,480 Yeah. 205 00:10:13,480 --> 00:10:15,040 Yeah, they're shooting off sparks, but it 206 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:18,760 it actually takes a little bit of effort to set something on fire. 207 00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:20,880 Unless. It's doused in gasoline. 208 00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:22,600 Because they probably would hit it and maybe 209 00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:24,840 just make a hole and go through it because it's essentially 210 00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:26,760 just really thin plastic. 211 00:10:26,760 --> 00:10:28,040 And and. There's off. 212 00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:28,440 Yeah. 213 00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:32,560 And there's got a lot of wind is going across the face of the sail. 214 00:10:32,560 --> 00:10:33,280 So yeah. 215 00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:36,240 But of course I wouldn't want anyone to shoot myself. So. 216 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:36,600 Yeah. 217 00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:38,400 Well, it worked as a 218 00:10:38,400 --> 00:10:42,400 determine in that one particular case on Lake Michigan near Michigan City. 219 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:45,120 But, you know, that actually brings up a quick thing 220 00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:47,240 though, commercial fishing boats. 221 00:10:47,240 --> 00:10:49,560 But I work in mission Bay on a police boat. 222 00:10:49,560 --> 00:10:53,080 They used to have these the column seal bombs 223 00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:56,240 and so they're I mean, they're 224 00:10:56,240 --> 00:10:59,320 bigger than a mighty firecracker. 225 00:10:59,320 --> 00:11:02,840 And I guess you had to be licensed to actually get them there. 226 00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:05,960 They said they were like the same as a quarter stick of dynamite. 227 00:11:07,160 --> 00:11:10,800 And based on what I saw, man, I could believe that because they 228 00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:14,560 because invariably in the harbor, the crew would be, you know, 229 00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:18,760 playing grab ass with each other, and that would come a seal bomb, right? 230 00:11:18,760 --> 00:11:20,240 Yeah. 231 00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:24,200 But I've seen a few get thrown in the water and it's like, boom, right? 232 00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:27,880 You know, so I know that there are people out there saying, cool, 233 00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:30,880 I'm gonna have to get some seal bombs and carry them for personal protection. 234 00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:33,400 You know, you know, how. 235 00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:37,560 They I and I'm sure we'll find a YouTube gun tuber that'll maybe try that. 236 00:11:37,560 --> 00:11:39,120 But, you know, 237 00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:41,760 something I didn't think about on my little list here 238 00:11:41,760 --> 00:11:47,280 is, power heads or bang sticks, and I think I don't know this, but 239 00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:50,320 I think they've been implicated in either 240 00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:53,760 homicide or at least, accidental, death. 241 00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:57,360 Because if you don't know what it is, it's basically a shotgun shell or a, 242 00:11:58,240 --> 00:12:01,960 pistol cartridge that's in a little thing 243 00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:05,360 that, it's it's essentially a zip gun, and you're you're supposed 244 00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:06,240 to use them against sharks. 245 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:08,440 And I don't think they use them much anymore, 246 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:11,520 because we're supposed to be kind and gentle to sharks and all that. 247 00:12:11,520 --> 00:12:16,120 But used to that was the thing I remember, like in the 70s and even on TV shows, 248 00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:19,880 you'd push it against the shark and the, cartridge would discharge 249 00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:23,880 and kill the shark, which I'm thinking, okay, there's blood in the water, 250 00:12:23,880 --> 00:12:24,960 maybe bring more sharks. 251 00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:28,200 I don't know, but, I don't think people use them much anymore. 252 00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:29,880 But I'm sure out in mission Bay. 253 00:12:29,880 --> 00:12:31,960 Roy, you guys probably had bang sticks and all that. 254 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:34,920 And any advice I did? I had a job. 255 00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:36,720 Yeah, I had, a little short. 256 00:12:36,720 --> 00:12:38,600 357 Magnum bang stick. 257 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:41,400 And the bullet doesn't kill him. The gas kills him. 258 00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:42,120 You're right. 259 00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:43,800 The bullet just penetrates the skins 260 00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:47,760 for the gas and and mine was a short stainless steel rod. 261 00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:52,000 And you wore clipped your belt and, and it had a safety pin in the end of it 262 00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:55,840 and, which I was really happy it had, because I remember one day I was kind of 263 00:12:56,080 --> 00:12:58,920 climbing over some rocks and stuff and I, you know, I was stuck. 264 00:12:58,920 --> 00:12:59,520 I couldn't get over. 265 00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:00,440 And when I finally got over, 266 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:04,480 I realized that the bang stick it turned around was was against me. 267 00:13:04,680 --> 00:13:07,200 And I was like, pulling myself up over it. 268 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:10,200 I know I was an idiot, you know? Yeah. 269 00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:13,200 But I never used it on a shark. 270 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:15,920 I did do it a few times just to see it go off. 271 00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:19,000 And it was it was pretty fun because I actually, at the time, 272 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:22,200 I thought, I don't think this is a gun. 273 00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:25,640 I don't I wasn't sure that it was illegal to have. 274 00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:28,320 And, you know, I would think that if you were a bad guy 275 00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:31,400 and you had a little short bang stick that, my gosh, you know. 276 00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:32,200 Yeah. 277 00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:35,520 I don't know, after research and see if that's legal or not legal. 278 00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:36,800 You know. Exactly. 279 00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:38,440 Yeah. So the last thing. 280 00:13:38,440 --> 00:13:41,600 Oh, I've got two more things on my. No, no. 281 00:13:41,880 --> 00:13:45,400 And, I'm going to laugh and I think I'm sure 282 00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:48,400 you've done this too, Roy, but the Cuba baton. 283 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:50,480 And I've still got mine around here someplace. 284 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:51,360 It's the long, 285 00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:56,040 keychain, basically that, it's a long stick. 286 00:13:56,040 --> 00:14:01,160 And that those were a thing, like, what, late 80s, early 90s? 287 00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:04,160 That everybody had a good baton, and there were training courses. 288 00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:04,920 You could do this 289 00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:08,040 and that and hit them in the head and gouge out their eye and all that. 290 00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:11,360 And most people ended up hanging on to them, 291 00:14:11,520 --> 00:14:14,160 using Miss Key chains on duty, especially because, you know, 292 00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:16,320 they were pretty begging to come in your belt pretty easy. 293 00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:19,800 But I never used mine as an offensive or defensive weapon. 294 00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:21,680 And it just seems like 295 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:25,080 by the time you go to all that, you might as well just go hands on. 296 00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:28,920 But, I'm sure you've probably tested them for ballistic coefficient or something. 297 00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:29,480 You know. 298 00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:31,920 We and we had them or you were allowed to have them. 299 00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:34,920 And I found a lot of those things to me 300 00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:39,080 are a lot of like the defensive holds that they taught you in the Academy. 301 00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:40,800 They work really good. 302 00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:42,840 If he in the Academy, if he. 303 00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:45,680 Yeah, if he kind of doesn't want to fight anyway, you know. 304 00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:45,920 Yeah. 305 00:14:45,920 --> 00:14:49,680 So when you put someone in a wrist lock that it's like if he doesn't 306 00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:53,080 really want to fight, well then that's a good excuse for him not to fight. 307 00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:55,080 Right. So he'll go with you. 308 00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:58,960 But the Coubertin I tried a couple of times to get drunk. 309 00:14:58,960 --> 00:15:01,680 Drivers have a propensity for staying in the car 310 00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:04,680 and holding on to the steering wheel when you tell them to get out. 311 00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:05,680 And so, 312 00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:07,400 you know, we used to using because you kind of, like, 313 00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:09,600 hook behind their thumb and twist third thumb off. 314 00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:12,680 And then they would go oh, 000 and then they would get out of the car. 315 00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:16,680 We had PR 24 side handle batons and 316 00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:20,040 I, I hit a few people doing 317 00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:23,640 the flick, you know, where you have it pivot. 318 00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:27,000 And it had absolutely no effect on them at all. 319 00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:28,480 Yeah. 320 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:29,160 So that's a. 321 00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:31,400 Thing too, when you're in a big fight and think, okay, 322 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:33,160 you know, my instructor told me it's just but it's. 323 00:15:33,160 --> 00:15:34,720 Really cool, right? Yeah. 324 00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:37,040 No, you hit. Him in there like stop hitting me. 325 00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:39,600 It's like, oh the fight's going to start now. 326 00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:41,480 Yeah. They don't even notice that you hit him. 327 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:42,440 It's really funny 328 00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:45,640 that what I did like about it, though, and this is if you're going to carry a, 329 00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:50,320 that kind of a side handle baton is, is you hold it down to your sides. 330 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:52,840 So the little short end pokes out forward. 331 00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:56,160 And I do have to tell you, if you poke somebody in the stomach with that 332 00:15:56,400 --> 00:16:00,240 or anywhere they that gets hurt tension. 333 00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:03,240 You know, I that it's distracting to say the least. 334 00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:06,240 We also had the expandable batons. 335 00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:08,280 Remember those? Oh yeah. 336 00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:09,600 I have to say I like that. 337 00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:11,800 If you're thick. 338 00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:12,800 It's just a stick. 339 00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:13,200 Right. 340 00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:16,520 And, when I first got hired, we had, I don't know what they were. 341 00:16:16,560 --> 00:16:17,440 20 inch. 342 00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:20,520 Oh, you know, batons, straight, sick. 343 00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:22,600 Stick. They were great. 344 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:24,360 Because if you pull one out, people look at that 345 00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:26,240 and says he's going to beat me to death with that. 346 00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:27,560 Yeah, I'm going to behave. 347 00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:30,080 But the Cubans are not cool batons, I guess. 348 00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:30,840 What were they called? 349 00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:32,320 Expandable baton. Yeah. 350 00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:34,200 Expandable batons. Yeah. 351 00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:35,880 I liked them because they were kind of award 352 00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:38,880 in a cross straw, a little loopy holster on the front. 353 00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:42,640 And so if you were going to do it, it's like, okay, this guy wants to fight me. 354 00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:45,840 You'd reach across and then go and snap, right? 355 00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:47,040 Yeah, yeah. 356 00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:48,720 And then they would look at you and go, 357 00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:50,640 oh, he's going to beat me with that steel stick. 358 00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:52,640 Yeah. You know I'm going to stop. 359 00:16:52,640 --> 00:16:53,400 And so quit. 360 00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:56,920 Now the few times I use it is I found it to be most effective is 361 00:16:56,960 --> 00:16:59,920 if you crack somebody on the shin with it, 362 00:16:59,920 --> 00:17:03,000 they pretty much would fall down on the ground and cried like a baby. 363 00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:04,520 Yeah. You know, so. 364 00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:07,520 But yeah, I think no, that is a good 365 00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:10,680 some of this might qualify as less less lethal. 366 00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:13,760 Because I am a strong proponent of that. 367 00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:16,760 If you carry a gun, you should also carry some pepper spray, 368 00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:20,960 because, you know, the two guys fighting with each other who are kind of drunk. 369 00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:25,640 If you really feel it necessary to intervene, well, then pepper spray them 370 00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:28,800 because, you know, chances are pretty good they're going to stop. 371 00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:29,880 You know? 372 00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:33,160 But again, you're inserting yourself into this event 373 00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:36,080 and opening yourself up to liability. 374 00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:39,040 Yeah. So, you know, just be careful. Yeah. 375 00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:39,960 Yeah. 376 00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:40,640 Well, the. 377 00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:44,640 And I was going to say now I have used the PR 24 if there's a way 378 00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:45,480 and I don't even remember how, 379 00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:48,640 but if you get it behind their arm, you can put their arm up right behind them 380 00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:51,480 and they don't have any choice in the matter. That's pretty cool. 381 00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:53,720 They have to kind of be cooperative, though. 382 00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:55,200 I mean, it's all those things. 383 00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:57,760 If he's really in a fight, he's they're not cooperative. 384 00:17:57,760 --> 00:17:59,840 Yeah. Right. So and you. 385 00:17:59,840 --> 00:18:03,440 We tended we tended to throw them away so they didn't get them and beat us. 386 00:18:03,480 --> 00:18:04,280 With them. Yeah. 387 00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:05,040 So yeah. 388 00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:05,880 No it's true. 389 00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:07,840 It's not like the TV at all. 390 00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:09,360 Yeah. The final one. 391 00:18:09,360 --> 00:18:11,040 And I've been guilty of this too. 392 00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:14,400 And I, you probably have to remember and they're still advertised periodically 393 00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:16,080 blow guns. 394 00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:18,160 I remember we all had blow guns. 395 00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:21,080 You know, the six footer with the little darts and all that. 396 00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:21,920 And, you know, 397 00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:25,280 we shot him into foam and you wondered, I wonder how deep that would go. 398 00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:29,040 And occasionally you would see an ad, you know, defend your home with a blow gun. 399 00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:34,920 It's like, really if if you believe that, there are far deeper problems 400 00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:38,880 going on than than just purchasing a blow gun. 401 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:40,080 They're kind of fun. 402 00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:43,920 And, they're they're not really accurate out at any kind of distance. 403 00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:46,240 They don't hold their velocity very well. 404 00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:48,480 So they're just a toy. 405 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:50,400 I guess unless you're an Amazon tribesman. 406 00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:53,520 But even then, yeah, they shoot the monkeys with them to to hunt. 407 00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:56,040 But it's it's not like they hit them. 408 00:18:56,040 --> 00:18:58,800 It's not like the movies either. They don't hit them in a tube. 409 00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:01,560 And it's like it takes a while for that poison to take effect. 410 00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:03,720 So, No. 411 00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:04,720 No on the blowgun. 412 00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:06,600 But, Roy, I'm interested to hear your. 413 00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:08,720 I'm sure you've got blowgun stories. 414 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:11,400 If you do have a blowgun, though, you have to put. 415 00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:13,680 Was it curare? Was the poison. 416 00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:15,120 They always dip it on then. 417 00:19:15,120 --> 00:19:18,240 Then you hope the who here remembers in the back 418 00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:23,400 of like mechanics illustrated in the 60s 419 00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:27,080 and 70s, it was this guy with a big hat on and no shirt. 420 00:19:27,080 --> 00:19:30,360 He was holding a blowgun and he's holding an anteater up. 421 00:19:31,120 --> 00:19:32,160 I remember that. 422 00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:33,880 You remember that? Yeah. This is. Yeah. 423 00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:38,600 They have a blowgun, you know, be a hunter or, you know, and all that. 424 00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:40,200 Yeah. It was really funny. 425 00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:44,360 He was like this really weird kind of gay, you know, 426 00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:47,920 looking guy or I don't know, but. 427 00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:50,280 Yeah. Yeah. Oh, no, they're I mean, they're fun. Sure. 428 00:19:50,280 --> 00:19:52,200 I've made some, you know, they're a lot of fun. 429 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:54,480 Now you go shoot at the hay bale or something, you know? 430 00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:59,640 But yeah, but now that's not a real thing I would say, of all of those things. 431 00:20:00,360 --> 00:20:03,160 But again, it's a final resort. 432 00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:06,040 Would be some kind of a black powder gun. 433 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:06,480 Yeah. 434 00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:10,040 You know, I mean, is that the primary thing you would rely on? 435 00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:12,160 I not me. 436 00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:12,880 Yeah. 437 00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:16,160 Well, I mean, you've now walked into part two of the list, 438 00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:20,840 and this is the stuff that I'm not saying it's a horrible idea, 439 00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:23,840 but if you're making that you're playing a you're 440 00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:25,600 you're really not thinking this thing through. 441 00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:27,720 And black powder was, was one of them. 442 00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:33,120 I know guys have carried them because, at least under the old, 443 00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:36,040 state code in my place, 444 00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:41,040 if it was manufactured prior to 1897, it wasn't considered a firearm. 445 00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:42,600 I think they've changed that now. 446 00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:44,800 Basically, anything that shoots a bullet is a firearm. 447 00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:47,680 But back then there was that exception for black powder. 448 00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:51,480 So guys that couldn't hole have guns because they were convicted felon 449 00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:52,560 would sometimes carry those. 450 00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:56,640 And as hundreds of thousands of people can attest from, 451 00:20:56,920 --> 00:21:00,600 you know, the 18th and 19th century black powder is quite effective. 452 00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:02,520 But there's a lot of shortcomings. 453 00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:04,280 We shouldn't have to explain all that. 454 00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:06,920 And again, but we're not saying, you know, if you're 455 00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:10,360 if you're out doing cowboy action shooting and, you know, the, 456 00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:15,240 the tangos come over the back of the berm, that's what you got to shoot them. 457 00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:17,480 But, I don't know. 458 00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:21,160 And, the late John Taaffe and did a story on that, and I thought, 459 00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:25,960 okay, he makes a lot of good and salient points about using it to defend yourself. 460 00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:29,440 But really the overarching question was if you've got any other 461 00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:33,400 more modern type of firearm, this is probably plan B. 462 00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:36,640 So your thoughts on, black powder revolvers and all that? 463 00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:39,560 No, I agree, I think during black powder season 464 00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:41,880 I know people who carry black powder revolvers, 465 00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:43,800 you know, 466 00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:48,080 ostensibly to put down a deer or something, but I but it just as well 467 00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:50,720 they carry them for protection, you know, I mean, 468 00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:53,720 if you really know what you're doing, you really know how to load them. 469 00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:55,960 You really know how to take care of them. 470 00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:57,760 I mean, they're pretty darn reliable. 471 00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:01,080 And, you know, and it it is better than a sharp sticker rock, you know? 472 00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:02,280 Right? Right. 473 00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:03,640 Speaking of sticks, though, is it? 474 00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:08,360 I'm an old guy of a bad back, and, I've carried a cane now 475 00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:11,680 for, I don't know, 20 years, 25 years. 476 00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:17,520 Chances are pretty good if I'm out and about during the day, I have a cane 477 00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:18,880 with me. 478 00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:23,000 And the one I usually use is an old, who they called the. 479 00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:26,600 The knife guys had the crazy guy started the the company, 480 00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:28,800 black. 481 00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:31,120 No, I can't I'm blanking on their name. 482 00:22:31,120 --> 00:22:31,840 No, I'm not. 483 00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:34,560 Going to say because you said the guy that founded it was crazy. 484 00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:36,600 Yeah, he sold it. He's. 485 00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:38,760 Yeah. Yeah, he's out of it. But anyway. 486 00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:40,520 Yeah, you know. What? I got it. 487 00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:42,720 But I think most folks do too. 488 00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:46,840 They call it like the urban gentleman's cane or something. 489 00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:46,920 Yeah. 490 00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:52,080 And it's got this, you know, kind of heavy cast aluminum ball top to it. 491 00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:54,840 And, and it's just a straight stick, you know. 492 00:22:54,840 --> 00:23:00,960 But it's it's some kind of like fiber impregnated fiberglass or something. 493 00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:02,280 That's really good. 494 00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:06,600 Well I drilled the bottom out about ten inches of it and I, I, 495 00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:12,760 glued a, brass rod in there and then put the cap back on. 496 00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:15,200 So it's got a little heft out there, right? 497 00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:15,840 Yeah. 498 00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:18,760 And so I like it because it gives you 499 00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:21,760 a plan B, it's, you know, I mean, I'm armed, right? 500 00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:25,600 But if I'm, you know, I'm like, man of my own business and some guy wants 501 00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:26,920 to push me around or something. 502 00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:30,680 Well, he's going to learn that stick fighting is really effective. 503 00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:32,920 You know, it is. And yeah. 504 00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:35,280 And then at least that gets him off of you. 505 00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:38,320 So now you can run or get your gun out or do whatever you're going to do. 506 00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:41,800 But I think even if you don't have a bad back, 507 00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:46,800 I think think seriously about having some kind of a gentleman's cane, 508 00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:50,640 you know, and if your state allows it, remember there sword canes? 509 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:51,080 Yeah. 510 00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:54,080 You know, I'm not saying that I carry a sword cane, 511 00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:57,240 but I took fencing when I was young. 512 00:23:57,400 --> 00:23:58,640 So course you did. 513 00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:02,080 It might be surprising to somebody someday. 514 00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:05,040 Well, I was going to say I've got quite a bit of experience 515 00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:09,000 with walking sticks, and not the only time I carry him anymore is when I'm hiking. 516 00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:14,600 But, our good friend Steve Tehrani, who is literally a martial arts expert 517 00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:17,680 and he's he's most known for his caramba training. 518 00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:22,360 But, at one point, and I don't know if he still does it, but he taught a 519 00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:26,840 a cane class, and I know a guy that had his whole family go through it. 520 00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:30,560 And when they went to Europe, where you can't carry basically any kind of weapon, 521 00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:36,120 they all took, walking sticks with the idea that at least they had that. 522 00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:39,320 And I will say in the hands of somebody that practices, 523 00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:42,080 or even a guy like me just knows the technique, 524 00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:45,080 they can be used pretty effectively for a lot of different things. 525 00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:47,400 And the funny thing was, when I took his class, 526 00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:48,720 I thought, okay, we're going to learn all this 527 00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:52,640 real high speed, low drag stuff, and you do learn some of that. 528 00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:56,040 But Steve will tell you, if you're not practicing it, you're going to forget it. 529 00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:59,720 But I do remember the first things was swinging like a baseball bat. 530 00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:02,760 It's like, oh well, yeah, that that works pretty good. 531 00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:05,760 If he hit somebody in the temple with it, it's going to put him down. 532 00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:08,880 Well, they go like this and you hit their forearm or something. 533 00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:09,480 Yeah. 534 00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:13,440 I found even those, they're expandable canes. 535 00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:15,960 You get him at, like, Walgreens, right? Yep. 536 00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:19,200 They fold up and then you go flick and they go right? 537 00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:20,760 They go straight. Well, guess what? 538 00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:24,960 If you poke somebody with one, it's just like poking him 539 00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:28,680 with an aluminum rod, you know, because they don't collapse. 540 00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:34,280 And so, yeah, when I went to Europe, I took one of those and never a second 541 00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:38,160 glance anywhere, you know, right through TSA, right through it. 542 00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:40,520 What's that? That's my cane. Okay. 543 00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:42,600 Especially if you're a gentleman of a certain age. 544 00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:43,240 Well, yeah. 545 00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:43,760 That's it. 546 00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:44,880 I've reached that age where you don't 547 00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:47,760 have to take your shoes off or your coat off or anything, you know? 548 00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:48,880 So that's good. Yeah. 549 00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:49,440 Yeah. Cane. 550 00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:53,280 So, that really is a plan B kind of a weapon. 551 00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:54,760 Defensive tool. 552 00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:55,560 That really works. 553 00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:58,960 Plus, I have to say, it really feels good if you're stuck, 554 00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:02,720 you know, following your wife around the antique mall for two hours, 555 00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:05,800 it's kind of nice to kind of lean on on everyone. 556 00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:08,560 So have you seen the ones that are like the British? 557 00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:09,040 Have they? 558 00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:11,440 You know, they fold out to have a little stool on them? 559 00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:12,440 Yes, yes. 560 00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:14,720 I'm surprised you don't have one. I have one of those. 561 00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:20,280 Yeah, of course they're Walgreen's $25 and, they're a little ungainly to carry. 562 00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:23,240 But when I had injured my back 2 or 3 years ago. 563 00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:25,320 Oh, Lord, what a nice thing that was. 564 00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:29,320 And, And you could still hold it and use it like an ax and chop 565 00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:30,880 somebody if you needed to. 566 00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:32,840 Yeah, yeah, exactly 567 00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:36,360 what I always felt like the cane was good for was keeping somebody off of you. 568 00:26:36,360 --> 00:26:40,160 If a guy is coming out with you with a pistol, you're screwed 569 00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:41,920 unless you've got a gun or whatever. 570 00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:44,720 But if somebody's got a knife or just being crazy, 571 00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:46,560 that's where they really come into being. 572 00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:49,440 Because like you said, you can poke them, keep them off. 573 00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:52,160 You can trip them very easily, or you can use them 574 00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:55,440 as lethal force by, you know, smacking them real hard in the temple or something. 575 00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:58,200 So I think you hit it perfectly on the head. 576 00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:01,440 That's a good plan B, a good plan B, and, 577 00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:05,120 you know, I've seriously considered doing what what you're talking about. 578 00:27:05,120 --> 00:27:07,520 I've reached that age where I think I could use a cane. 579 00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:10,440 And, it does give you a few more options. 580 00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:13,400 So people open doors for you. 581 00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:17,280 You know, the only thing is, I will I will caution you 582 00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:20,840 is that if you have a cane and you plan on using it for defense, 583 00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:23,400 I mean, find yourself a couple of YouTube videos. 584 00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:28,440 You do need to learn how to take it back, because if you poke somebody 585 00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:30,800 and you don't poke them hard enough to knock them down 586 00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:35,080 or get them off of you, they are going to grab the end of your cane. So. 587 00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:36,960 So now you're tempted to. 588 00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:38,760 It turns into a tugboat tug. 589 00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:41,520 You know, tug of war, which I don't know. You're a loser. 590 00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:42,600 You won't lose it or something, 591 00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:46,320 but you have to learn how to break that hold, right? 592 00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:48,360 That's really important. So do it. 593 00:27:48,360 --> 00:27:49,960 But take the ten minutes 594 00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:52,960 and practice a little bit and learn how to break that hole. 595 00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:54,200 Exactly. 596 00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:58,320 And now let's get into something that will certainly inspire some hate mail. 597 00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:02,080 And, we've talked about it before, but I think this is one of those weapons 598 00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:06,280 because I know many, many, many, many, many, many people who do this. 599 00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:07,920 They carry a knife for self-defense. 600 00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:12,760 And now wait, before you're typing, what a dumb S.O.B. 601 00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:16,080 I am. Knives kill people a lot. 602 00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:21,240 Okay, I get that, but the problem I have with knives having taken 603 00:28:21,360 --> 00:28:26,640 multiple knife classes, again, Steve, you know, it is a world class instructor, 604 00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:30,360 and I can't verify this, but I think Steve's got practical experience. 605 00:28:30,360 --> 00:28:32,760 Okay, so this guy knows what it's like. 606 00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:35,160 And it was funny, the very first thing he said in 607 00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:37,960 one of his classes was the first rule of a knife fight. 608 00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:39,480 And I'm thinking, you know this. 609 00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:41,760 He said, don't be in a knife fight. 610 00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:45,280 And, I thought, this guy really knows what he's talking about. 611 00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:49,680 Steve teaches from the standpoint of, he can teach all this stuff in the moves, 612 00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:54,120 but he teaches you essentially to disengage, get away and draw your gun, 613 00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:55,680 because that's what it is. 614 00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:58,680 At this point, you need to go to a gun and you need to shoot this guy. 615 00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:02,760 So the plan B of getting in some kind of knife fight. 616 00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:07,320 And if you're a martial arts true expert, you practice blades every day 617 00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:08,040 and all that. 618 00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:09,400 That's a different deal. 619 00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:12,600 That's .00 1% of the population. 620 00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:15,480 Billy Bob, who's carrying his Bowie knife. 621 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:17,880 Granted, I don't want to go hands on with Billy Bob 622 00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:19,400 because he might pull that knife. 623 00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:22,600 But that being your plan, a method to defend yourself 624 00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:24,480 just doesn't make good sense to me. 625 00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:26,040 So your thoughts on knives? 626 00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:28,400 Roy and I carry a knife every single solitary day. 627 00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:30,480 And if I have to use it, I will. 628 00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:32,920 But that's not that's not plan A. 629 00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:35,320 Oh, no, I agree with you completely. 630 00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:37,960 We used to carry a lot of us carried, 631 00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:41,760 a folding knife in each front pocket when I was a policeman. 632 00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:45,040 And, everybody had one in their 633 00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:49,040 strong hand pocket, but I always I used to carry two. 634 00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:52,280 And that was because if if somebody pins your arms. 635 00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:54,360 Right, you still can get to your knife. 636 00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:55,920 Probably in your pocket. 637 00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:58,160 So you could open up and stick them in the thigh 638 00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:00,680 or do something, get them off of you and then shoot them. 639 00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:03,120 So yeah, no, I'm with you. 640 00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:04,840 It's like a real plan. 641 00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:10,320 See, I, I was it did a little bit of light knife training one time and it was 642 00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:12,520 what was his name? 643 00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:14,000 Yeah. He used to write first. Jan. 644 00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:15,760 Which Michael. Janet. 645 00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:16,800 I think it was. 646 00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:19,120 Yeah. Jay is really interesting idea. 647 00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:23,520 So you put a white t shirt on it, and the other guy puts a white t shirt on, 648 00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:27,720 and you get a blue marking pen, and he gets a red marking pen, 649 00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:32,960 and then you go, go, go start the knife fight. 650 00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:37,320 Well, what you know, in the movies where they go, they go like stab, right. 651 00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:40,560 And then and then they jump back and then they run and and they stab again. 652 00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:43,920 I'll tell you what these guys that know how to do it, oh, if you're 653 00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:46,920 within distance, you get stabbed 15 times, Debs. 654 00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:49,240 And cut ten times. Right. 655 00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:55,320 And so literally, I mean, within 10s, my shirt was pretty much covered with 656 00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:59,200 red spots and slashes and, 657 00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:02,960 you know, and he had like 3 or 4 blue wounds for me. 658 00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:05,640 I mean, I didn't even know what I was doing it. I got him. 659 00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:06,960 Yeah. You know. 660 00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:10,640 Well then Steve's point is in a knife fight, you're going to get cut. 661 00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:11,240 Yeah. 662 00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:14,360 And one thing I always remember is the fillet move. 663 00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:17,840 Just think about that fillet move. 664 00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:19,440 I don't even want to think about that. 665 00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:21,720 And to watch a guy like Steve do the crime. 666 00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:25,920 But I call it the ballet of death, because, you know, the carrot is the cook, 667 00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:31,680 curved knife that you can spin on your finger, and he does it. 668 00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:36,080 And when he goes to speed, it's crazy because he'll slice both femoral, probably 669 00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:41,080 catch your chest, cut your neck, and then before you know it, you're going. 670 00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:42,760 And I'm out of here. 671 00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:45,000 So, like you said, guys that are good. 672 00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:47,240 But how many people are actually like that? 673 00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:48,480 Yeah, the. 674 00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:51,600 It's interesting. 675 00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:53,560 If you. 676 00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:56,560 Not everyone has been shot by a gun. 677 00:31:56,600 --> 00:31:58,080 Right. 678 00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:00,720 There were they're out there, but 679 00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:03,480 everyone has been cut. 680 00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:07,440 And I will say this was taught in a couple classes 681 00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:10,560 I took that there are situations 682 00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:13,560 where presentation of the knife 683 00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:17,360 will make people go, whoa, wait a minute, right. 684 00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:21,240 Because they look at that and they go, ouch, I've been cut. 685 00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:22,920 I know what that's going to do to me. 686 00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:23,840 I don't want that. 687 00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:26,200 Because how many times have you pointed your gun at a bad guy? 688 00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:28,400 Okay, but I'm going to put your hands up. 689 00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:30,600 You're not going to shoot me, right? 690 00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:31,560 Exactly. 691 00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:34,160 I've been a seasoned criminal who's been shot before. 692 00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:36,880 He goes, okay, right. 693 00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:38,360 I don't want to get shot again. 694 00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:38,880 Yeah. Yeah. 695 00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:39,960 Right. 696 00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:42,840 And so, you know, I'm not sure how that works into things. 697 00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:46,280 Don't assume it's like the racking of the 870 shotgun. 698 00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:47,760 Don't assume that's going to stop the fight. 699 00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:49,240 It might. Right. But. 700 00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:52,040 So just because if you pull your knife out and go like that and say, 701 00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:55,880 get away from me or I'll cut you, it might work, you know, it might work. 702 00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:59,160 And then at that point you should run far, far and fast, fast. 703 00:32:59,600 --> 00:32:59,760 Yeah. 704 00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:03,480 So and I will give you one technique that I used 705 00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:06,600 and, kind of I think about it a lot. 706 00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:10,920 I used to carry a neck knife and neck knife scare me because I'm afraid 707 00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:13,440 they're going to fall, and I'm going to because I don't want to be stabbed. 708 00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:17,280 I also carried a, couple of different kind of knives on my duty belt. 709 00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:20,560 And my idea was, I'm not going to go knife fighting somebody, 710 00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:23,840 but I had an instructor tell me that it's pretty effective 711 00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:26,320 if somebody tries to take your gun out of your holster. 712 00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:30,720 One of the best ways to deal with it is, 713 00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:32,680 I don't want to talk about disarming techniques, 714 00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:37,040 but push your gun down so that they have to struggle against all your weight. 715 00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:39,280 And while you're doing that, get a hold of that knife 716 00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:41,640 with your other hand and just go to stabbing. Yeah. 717 00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:44,640 And they'll they'll lose interest in your gun pretty quickly. 718 00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:46,560 So that's not a bad idea. 719 00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:49,960 Well, you know, I learned, because in the early days, 720 00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:54,360 cop knives were usually a buck 110 folder. 721 00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:55,040 Yeah. 722 00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:59,400 And, for some reason, we weren't smart enough to understand 723 00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:03,440 that you could put a thumb stud on it to open it one handed. 724 00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:05,960 So it was a two handed opening. 725 00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:09,200 And, yeah, there were guys that would like you bend the spring 726 00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:11,840 and then you could hold the blade and, like, flick it down. 727 00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:15,560 And sometimes it would open up, you know, sometimes not. And, 728 00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:19,840 so I was always thinking about things like this. 729 00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:23,560 And so I made myself a short fixed blade knife. 730 00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:26,400 It had about a 2.5in blade. Yeah. 731 00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:30,240 And a flapped it's a little sheath for it. 732 00:34:30,240 --> 00:34:33,240 And I that was on my duty belt, 733 00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:37,320 because then I knew that I could open it and abuse it with one hand. 734 00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:41,760 And it was both as a defensive weapon, but it was also a practical thing. 735 00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:44,840 So if I'm holding on to this, you know, 736 00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:48,160 spewing this thing of gasoline or something, you know, 737 00:34:48,240 --> 00:34:52,000 I could get my knife out to, to do something and not have to let go of it. 738 00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:56,600 And so, yeah, I even did the this is not really about 739 00:34:56,600 --> 00:34:59,320 although I guess it is talking about, what we're talking about. 740 00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:01,400 We haven't addressed 741 00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:04,440 the thing about a flashlight, and it's a strobing 742 00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:07,520 flashlight, really a defensive weapon, which I don't think it is. 743 00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:12,040 But anyway, a million years ago, this would have been in the middle 70s. 744 00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:16,840 No. Policeman did not carry a, spare light on their belt. 745 00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:18,080 It was unheard of. 746 00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:20,720 Well, there were no lights until the mini mag. Remember? 747 00:35:20,720 --> 00:35:23,120 Little tiny mini bag lights, right? I had one. 748 00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:24,720 Then they appeared everywhere. 749 00:35:24,720 --> 00:35:25,880 And then somebody was smart enough 750 00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:28,280 to make a holster you could use on your duty belt. 751 00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:33,520 Well, I was a scuba diver, and so we had these little double a, I classic. 752 00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:35,440 Yeah. Take that. Yeah. That's it. Yeah. That. 753 00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:38,280 We just used scuba diver. It was a backup light. Right. 754 00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:40,080 And, well, I was looking at it one day. 755 00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:42,720 I thought, you know what? That'd be pretty damn handy. 756 00:35:42,720 --> 00:35:46,040 On my belt, because we've all had our primary lights die 757 00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:51,560 or drop and get broken or something, and, and so I got, I got one of those. 758 00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:55,440 And it used to have a clear end cap that shined light everywhere. 759 00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:56,640 And so I painted it black. 760 00:35:56,640 --> 00:35:59,400 So that light just came out the end of the lens. 761 00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:02,040 And I made a little simple sheath, and I put it on my belt. 762 00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:05,040 And it was really interesting to see the people berate me. 763 00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:06,520 Oh, what's that for? 764 00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:08,800 Yeah. You're afraid of the dark, you know? 765 00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:10,280 And yes, yes I am. 766 00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:13,960 Yeah, but it's soon thereafter, many mag lights came out 767 00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:16,520 and everybody had one on their belt, you know. 768 00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:18,000 So, but yeah. 769 00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:21,000 Is the strobe flashlight a defensive weapon? 770 00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:22,160 I say, no. 771 00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:24,360 No, I agree, I agree, 772 00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:28,000 and you know that that's a whole show too, that we need to do. But, 773 00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:32,280 one thing I wanted to cover real quick because we're about out of time 774 00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:35,840 is, pepper spray, and I highly endorse pepper spray. 775 00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:40,640 I've done it to a couple dozen people, probably in the course of my career. 776 00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:44,520 I encourage, my wife, my daughters. 777 00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:46,840 I bought some for my mom. 778 00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:47,760 I encourage people to use it. 779 00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:51,040 But what I want to say about pepper spray, 780 00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:54,360 first of all, mace and all that, that's pretty much not a thing anymore. 781 00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:57,360 Pepper spray really does work. But I. 782 00:36:57,360 --> 00:37:01,840 What worries me is people place too much, reliance on it. 783 00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:03,200 It's like anything else. 784 00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:05,600 There's people that it just doesn't affect at all. 785 00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:07,280 And there's people that can fight through it. 786 00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:10,680 So if you carry pepper spray and I encourage that, 787 00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:15,000 but you need to realize that it's not the end all, be all, 788 00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:16,080 and you may spray somebody 789 00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:19,080 and they'll run off or just melt into a puddle of quivering goo. 790 00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:21,960 There's also a chance that they may get really angry 791 00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:24,920 and really try to strangle you, or stab you, or whatever. 792 00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:28,720 So that was only my only caveat about spray. 793 00:37:28,720 --> 00:37:32,640 It works really good when it works, which is the majority of the time, but 794 00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:33,840 it's like anything else. 795 00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:37,320 It can actually make things worse. 796 00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:41,520 And the other, part there is, you know, we all used to have to be sprayed, 797 00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:44,880 and you always had about 10% of people there. 798 00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:47,080 You know, we don't have to get shot with our gun. 799 00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:49,720 Well, I do agree it's important because what happens? 800 00:37:49,720 --> 00:37:50,400 What happens? 801 00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:53,240 Roy, when somebody deploys spray, what happens. 802 00:37:53,240 --> 00:37:54,360 If you use it? 803 00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:56,640 Everybody has pepper. Everybody. 804 00:37:56,640 --> 00:37:58,200 Yeah. Everybody. Everybody. 805 00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:02,520 So you need if you're going to carry it you need to at least spray it in the air 806 00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:04,040 and walk into the cloud. 807 00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:07,560 And it's unpleasant but you will survive. 808 00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:08,640 And and it 809 00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:10,960 it builds that confidence that if you are in a fight 810 00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:12,600 and you decide to spray somebody 811 00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:15,640 and you get a whole face full of it, okay, been there, done that. 812 00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:17,920 It sucks. But I'll I'll fight through it. 813 00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:22,200 But if it's the first time you're like, I can't breathe, I'm dying. 814 00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:24,040 And that makes the situation worse. 815 00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:26,280 So pepper spray gets a thumbs up. 816 00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:30,600 But we're both seeing the, you know, two transients fighting and the 817 00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:34,800 I used to just walk up and on the beach because they were just spraying both. 818 00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:35,760 Yeah. 819 00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:38,280 And but admire. Them out guys. 820 00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:40,920 There I mean there's still big runny snotty buggers 821 00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:42,760 and they're still trying to fight with each other 822 00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:45,480 and they can't see and they're crying and they're brewing, you know. 823 00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:48,400 Now I agree, you know, this fight just crossed my mind. 824 00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:50,480 And I think it might be something for people to think of. 825 00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:54,360 Is that on the on police agencies they usually have this. 826 00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:58,520 They call them a use of force continuum or a use of force ladder, 827 00:38:58,520 --> 00:38:59,880 or there's all kinds of name for it. 828 00:38:59,880 --> 00:39:03,040 And basically what that is, is your final option 829 00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:06,040 is you take your gun out and shoot him, right. 830 00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:08,640 But before that you have other alternatives. 831 00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:12,120 And so maybe your first use of force 832 00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:15,720 is to try to defuze the situation. Right? 833 00:39:15,720 --> 00:39:16,000 Okay. 834 00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:19,160 If that doesn't work, then you go to the next one 835 00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:22,200 and maybe that's, pepper spray. 836 00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:23,120 Right? Then. 837 00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:26,440 If that doesn't work, the next one might be an expandable baton. 838 00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:28,080 You know, 839 00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:32,120 if that doesn't work, the next one might be some kind of a Taser, perhaps. 840 00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:33,320 Right. 841 00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:35,640 Well, now you're kind of out of options. 842 00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:37,280 And if you're still in trouble 843 00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:41,080 and this guy's still doing something bad, then you go to your final use of force. 844 00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:42,360 And now what? 845 00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:45,600 What happened, though, was that people, the public, thought that we had to go 846 00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:49,560 through all of these steps and go, yeah, yeah, right. 847 00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:52,320 Wait. Firm, empty handed control first. 848 00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:53,000 I know. 849 00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:56,520 And so so you have to learn that let's say 850 00:39:56,880 --> 00:40:00,680 that if it's legal where you are, you're allowed to carry a expandable baton. 851 00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:03,560 Well, that's not a bad idea, right. You know, because they're tidy. 852 00:40:03,560 --> 00:40:06,000 You keep it under your code. There's nothing wrong with that. 853 00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:09,360 And you can use it to pry things open if you need to or something. 854 00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:12,120 But, you know, if you have an expandable baton 855 00:40:12,120 --> 00:40:16,200 and some to see spray in your gun, well, you know, that's pretty good. 856 00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:17,160 Really? Yeah. 857 00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:20,880 And then that way, if you're ever in some situation to where, hey, you know, 858 00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:24,120 you, you oxy sprayed some guy that was trying to fight with you, 859 00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:26,280 and then the fight stayed gone. 860 00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:28,960 And so you got your, your expandable baton out, 861 00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:32,400 and you cracked him on his shin, and he still wanted to try to kill you. 862 00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:36,560 When then if you go to guns while you've just painted a pretty good picture, 863 00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:40,560 you know of both of your level of responsibility and the fact 864 00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:44,680 that you did everything in your power to avoid, you know, using deadly force. 865 00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:46,720 So not counting running away 866 00:40:46,720 --> 00:40:50,480 if you should have been running away is like number one, right? 867 00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:51,480 Yeah, yeah. 868 00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:55,480 I mean, the use of force continuum number one is runaway. 869 00:40:55,720 --> 00:40:58,160 Yeah. And, you know, interesting point. 870 00:40:58,160 --> 00:41:01,160 I know a lot of, dignitary protection folks, 871 00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:04,200 and they hate the term bodyguard. 872 00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:08,800 To me, in the informal usage, a bodyguard is a big meat head 873 00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:12,040 who likes to push people around, and that's fine. 874 00:41:12,240 --> 00:41:16,640 And, a lot of celebrities use them for for, status symbols. 875 00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:19,920 More than anything but true professional dignitary 876 00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:22,920 protection, whether it's government or private, 877 00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:27,320 a lot of them will carry spray and a lot of them, you'd be surprised. 878 00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:30,000 Carry a baton for that very reason, 879 00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:33,960 because their first job is to get the protectee out of trouble 880 00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:35,880 and out of the way and out of the public 881 00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:39,440 spotlight and bad press, and get them safely away. 882 00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:43,640 But if they end up in a situation where they'd like to 883 00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:47,880 not necessarily go to guns, but, you know, this person's being really troublesome, 884 00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:52,400 they tend to shy away from spray because that overall contamination. 885 00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:56,040 But a lot of them carry a stick because, like you said, pulling the stick out. 886 00:41:56,440 --> 00:41:58,440 It's like, okay, don't want no more of this. 887 00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:02,320 And if the person still continues their miscreant ways, quick wrap 888 00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:06,360 across the shins or, you know, even up to lethal force if it's necessary. 889 00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:07,920 But it's it's pretty amazing. 890 00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:11,080 You never think about guys in blazers and earpieces. 891 00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:13,680 A lot of McCarron sticks, expandable batons. 892 00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:17,640 Or it was always my experience that you could get if you had a crowd 893 00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:20,320 and they were mad at you for being a policeman 894 00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:23,080 and trying to arrest this poor, innocent person. 895 00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:25,920 Well, you could get in close to somebody and poke him really, 896 00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:29,280 really hard in the breadbasket, you know, with your stick. 897 00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:32,480 And they would just lose interest in everything. 898 00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:35,600 And then you could just quietly walk him over to your car and put handcuffs on. 899 00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:38,040 Nobody really knew what happened, you know. 900 00:42:38,040 --> 00:42:39,920 Exactly. But yeah, that's the beauty of that. 901 00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:42,960 So I guess if I was going to summit this is that I would say, 902 00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:44,560 don't make any stupid decisions. 903 00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:47,960 You know, if you if you have a tactical black laser 904 00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:53,120 equipped with pin sights on it, you know, sling shot, that's great. 905 00:42:53,120 --> 00:42:54,680 Go shoot some tin cans with it. 906 00:42:54,680 --> 00:42:56,840 You know. Yeah, but be realistic. 907 00:42:56,840 --> 00:43:01,120 And I think giving yourself options like less lethal options 908 00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:04,120 and all that kind of stuff, carry a cane. 909 00:43:04,320 --> 00:43:04,760 You know, 910 00:43:06,240 --> 00:43:06,600 carry a 911 00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:09,600 walking stick because none of that's illegal, you know? 912 00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:12,480 And, that's all. Just think about it. 913 00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:15,480 It's not like on TV. It never. It is not. 914 00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:19,720 And the only point I would like to add is, especially when we're 915 00:43:19,720 --> 00:43:23,760 talking about this stuff, again, the stuff that actually kind of does work 916 00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:26,880 and has its place in the whole scheme of things, 917 00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:31,080 but everything, including firearms, nothing is 100%. 918 00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:35,160 So a thinking person will think, okay, I'm going to deploy my spray, 919 00:43:35,160 --> 00:43:38,160 I'm going to deploy this stick, I'm going to shoot them. 920 00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:40,440 But you got to realize there may be something after that. 921 00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:41,920 It's like, oh, just shot him. 922 00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:45,120 We've all seen that where you shoot a guy and he continues 923 00:43:45,120 --> 00:43:48,120 stabbing somebody or runs 100 yards. 924 00:43:48,240 --> 00:43:49,840 Nothing is 100%. 925 00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:52,840 So if you're going to have to defend yourself, 926 00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:56,280 you know, first of all, don't get don't get in the fight if you can avoid it. 927 00:43:56,480 --> 00:44:00,960 But if you have to defend yourself, don't plan on I'll pull my gun in this. 928 00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:03,600 That's it. We're done. It doesn't work that way. 929 00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:07,880 So anyway, a great discussion where I had a lot of fun with that and, 930 00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:10,440 thinking about some other stuff. 931 00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:12,960 So yeah, I'm like, oh, I want to go check that out. 932 00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:15,960 And my neck knife, I want to see if I've still got that around. 933 00:44:16,160 --> 00:44:16,680 Yeah. 934 00:44:16,680 --> 00:44:19,800 One of those, you know, I have to say though, it was Clint Smith. 935 00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:22,520 I always said I think it was Clint. I can't remember for sure. 936 00:44:22,520 --> 00:44:24,240 But he said the, 937 00:44:24,240 --> 00:44:27,960 the very best important thing to remember is that when you pull the trigger 938 00:44:27,960 --> 00:44:30,720 and shoot someone, that it's not going to work. 939 00:44:30,720 --> 00:44:31,720 Right. 940 00:44:31,720 --> 00:44:33,480 And I really agree with that. 941 00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:37,480 It's like it's not, you know, I saw a police video and a guy, a cop 942 00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:41,120 pulls his gun out, shoots a guy in the center torso with his 40, 943 00:44:41,320 --> 00:44:44,320 then massive stopping power of power of the 40. 944 00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:45,400 Right. 945 00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:48,840 And this guy looks down and sits down on the curb, 946 00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:53,040 looks up at the cop and says, don't shoot me anymore. 947 00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:54,800 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 948 00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:58,520 And and in the video, I could see that the cop was like all but like went, 949 00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:01,560 what the, what the hell? 950 00:45:01,560 --> 00:45:02,400 Yeah. 951 00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:04,680 When they look at you and go, why did you shoot me? 952 00:45:04,680 --> 00:45:05,480 Yeah. Oh. 953 00:45:05,480 --> 00:45:08,160 Well, sorry. 954 00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:10,080 Yeah. Now that you bring it up, you know. Yeah. 955 00:45:10,080 --> 00:45:11,280 Yeah, exactly. 956 00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:12,400 All right. Good. 957 00:45:12,400 --> 00:45:12,840 Yeah. 958 00:45:12,840 --> 00:45:13,360 Good stuff. 959 00:45:13,360 --> 00:45:14,960 Roy, I appreciate you joining us 960 00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:19,200 for the guns podcast U.S, brought to you by guns magazine. 961 00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:23,160 Please make sure you go and check out guns magazine.com. 962 00:45:23,560 --> 00:45:25,800 We're still posting stuff there. 963 00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:30,680 I have a weekly, story that I write and over at American handguns.com. 964 00:45:30,960 --> 00:45:33,600 Tom McHale still, contributing some stuff. 965 00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:34,560 So go check that out. 966 00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:35,160 And of course, 967 00:45:35,160 --> 00:45:39,360 you can watch this very podcast right there on the website Guns magazine.com. 968 00:45:39,600 --> 00:45:42,720 And of course, on YouTube, the FMG pub's channel. 969 00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:45,960 And if you go to guns podcast dot U.S, 970 00:45:45,960 --> 00:45:49,000 that's our website for the the podcast itself. 971 00:45:49,600 --> 00:45:53,960 We've got a lot of interesting stuff there and a link to all the old episodes, 972 00:45:54,280 --> 00:45:57,040 so check that out and merch and more. 973 00:45:57,040 --> 00:46:01,200 So on behalf of Roy Huntington, our official unofficial co-host, 974 00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:04,240 that I got to come up with a better term than that. But, 975 00:46:04,240 --> 00:46:08,680 anyway, on behalf of Roy, I'm your host, Brant Wheat, reminding you yet again. 976 00:46:08,680 --> 00:46:10,680 Now get out there and get shooting.