1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,920 You're going to go over there and say, hey, you put that, 2 00:00:02,920 --> 00:00:05,560 knife down and he's going to turn and run to you. 3 00:00:05,560 --> 00:00:09,480 So now suddenly you went from, I'm getting in my car with my wife from target, 4 00:00:09,480 --> 00:00:12,520 who has the baby to you have this maniac 5 00:00:12,520 --> 00:00:15,800 with crazy eyes and a bloody butcher knife running at you. 6 00:00:15,800 --> 00:00:18,800 And you've never had training for any of this. 7 00:00:33,520 --> 00:00:36,240 Hi there, and welcome to the Guns Podcast, U.S., brought to you 8 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:39,520 by guns magazine and sponsored by our good friends at Ruger. 9 00:00:39,880 --> 00:00:41,080 I'm your host, Brent Wheat, 10 00:00:41,080 --> 00:00:44,080 and I'd like to thank you for joining us for another episode 11 00:00:44,160 --> 00:00:47,920 of one of the world's biggest audio and video shooting programs. 12 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:49,640 Before we get started on another 13 00:00:49,640 --> 00:00:52,720 great topic, here's a quick word from our sponsor, Ruger. 14 00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:56,960 Looking for a firearm that's rugged, reliable, and built in America. 15 00:00:57,440 --> 00:01:00,720 Ruger firearms has been trusted by shooters for generations, 16 00:01:00,720 --> 00:01:03,920 offering everything from hunting rifles to everyday carry handguns. 17 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:07,080 Whether you're on the range in the field or protecting your home, 18 00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:10,240 Ruger delivers durability and performance you can count on. 19 00:01:10,440 --> 00:01:11,560 Discover the full lineup, 20 00:01:11,560 --> 00:01:15,200 explore new releases, and see why Ruger continues to set the standard. 21 00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:16,960 Visit Ruger JD.com today. 22 00:01:20,560 --> 00:01:21,160 Well, today 23 00:01:21,160 --> 00:01:24,240 our episode is going to kind of be an advice column somewhat. 24 00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:27,520 It was proposed by our unofficial official, 25 00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:30,520 unofficial guest host, Roy Huntington. 26 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:35,880 And today we're going to talk about when to hold them and when to fold them. 27 00:01:35,880 --> 00:01:38,880 But before we do that, hey, Roy, how's it going? 28 00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:41,880 I, you know, I, I really don't know. 29 00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:45,240 I mean, I haven't checked with my wife today 30 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:49,720 to see how it's going, you know, so we'll know more after that. 31 00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:52,440 But thanks for asking. 32 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:54,360 That falls under the category of nuff said. 33 00:01:54,360 --> 00:01:55,440 Okay. Let's move on. 34 00:01:55,440 --> 00:01:58,680 So anyway, now today we're going to talk it. 35 00:01:58,960 --> 00:02:02,840 It was funny right before we hit record, we were kind of just vamping 36 00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:03,800 and talking about it. 37 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:07,040 And then suddenly the words from the old Kenny Rogers song, 38 00:02:07,360 --> 00:02:09,720 you got to know when to hold them and know when to fold them. 39 00:02:09,720 --> 00:02:10,680 And that lines up 40 00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:14,560 perfectly with our topic today, we're going to talk about self-defense. 41 00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:16,160 And when you need to get involved 42 00:02:16,160 --> 00:02:18,840 and when you need to run like a scared little bunny. 43 00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:22,080 And this is a topic we've talked about many times. 44 00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:26,760 But we've never I don't think actually devoted a, a episode to it. 45 00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:28,680 So we're going to give you some thoughts. 46 00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:31,120 Of course, I got to do the disclaimer. We are not lawyers. 47 00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:34,720 We didn't play one on TV and we've not stayed at a Holiday Inn Express recently. 48 00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:37,720 So this is for entertainment purposes only. 49 00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:42,240 But at least we're going to give you, some ideas of what is it, Roy? 50 00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:47,280 Probably about 60 some years or 70 years of total law enforcement 51 00:02:47,640 --> 00:02:51,320 experience combined at big and small agencies across the country. 52 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:54,600 A gazillion years, years. 53 00:02:54,600 --> 00:02:56,200 It it feels like that. 54 00:02:56,200 --> 00:02:58,560 I will say, totally off topic. 55 00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:02,760 We have the, monthly old fart retiree, 56 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:07,120 luncheon and BBS festival, and we just had it yesterday. 57 00:03:07,120 --> 00:03:10,960 And it's funny, we tend to tell the same stories over and over. 58 00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:13,240 Remember that time that we did this? 59 00:03:13,240 --> 00:03:17,000 But, yeah, we've we've we've been there and done it 60 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:21,080 and survived it and, worn out a couple of t shirts in the process. 61 00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:24,320 So we're going to talk about this topic because don't you agree? 62 00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:28,120 This is one of those things that, folks who have not had, say 63 00:03:28,160 --> 00:03:30,360 legal training or professional, 64 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:32,760 even firearms instruction, they're always saying, you know, I, 65 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:36,960 I've heard you can do this or I should, should I do this or, you know, 66 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:39,040 it's one of those things 67 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:42,040 that people ask us a lot. 68 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:44,400 You know, let's start at the beginning. 69 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:45,680 I mean, I used to 70 00:03:45,680 --> 00:03:49,200 I was in our public affairs unit for a little while, and part of the glorious 71 00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:52,960 duties of that was to attend neighborhood watch meetings. 72 00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:54,480 Right? 73 00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:58,480 And invariably, every single time 74 00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:02,120 someone would put their hand up and I would say yes. 75 00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:05,680 And then they would say, is it true that if you shoot 76 00:04:05,680 --> 00:04:08,960 a burglar on your front porch, you should drag his body inside? 77 00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:11,680 Oh, oh oh, no, no. 78 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:13,640 And then that put your fingers in your ears. 79 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:15,640 And I didn't hear that. No, I didn't hear that. 80 00:04:15,640 --> 00:04:16,920 You never know. 81 00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:19,480 But surely you heard that from. No, I'm saying that's what. 82 00:04:19,480 --> 00:04:21,800 Yeah, that's always my answer because I got the same thing. 83 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:25,240 It's like, oh la la la la I can't hear, you know. 84 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:29,840 So which then leads into the it doesn't matter where you shoot him 85 00:04:29,840 --> 00:04:32,880 or how you kill him, as long as you were in fear for your life. 86 00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:33,640 Yeah. 87 00:04:33,640 --> 00:04:37,680 And I, you know, so you would say if you were in fear for your life 88 00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:41,760 and he was standing on the front porch, then, then. 89 00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:42,480 Okay. 90 00:04:42,480 --> 00:04:46,080 You know, but you don't move his body because that means all the lights and 91 00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:47,680 sirens go up in the air. 92 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:51,920 But yeah, but yeah, I think too many people, the average 93 00:04:51,920 --> 00:04:56,400 Sam and Suzy Homemaker, gee, I think I should get a gun for protection. 94 00:04:56,480 --> 00:04:58,280 That's fine. Right. 95 00:04:58,280 --> 00:05:00,320 And then that's where it stops. 96 00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:03,160 They get a gun, but they don't ever really learn. 97 00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:05,280 What are the rules? When can you act? 98 00:05:05,280 --> 00:05:06,920 When can you not act? 99 00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:08,760 And more importantly, which is I think what 100 00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:11,800 we're going to talk about today is when should you act. 101 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:12,840 Yeah. 102 00:05:12,840 --> 00:05:16,160 And when is it best, as you say, to follow them. 103 00:05:16,480 --> 00:05:17,480 Yeah. Know. 104 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:20,640 And you know, this is this is a very relevant topic 105 00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:24,520 because I'm going to talk about current events, a national news story 106 00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:29,720 that literally happened about 5 or 6 miles from here, and just a less than a mile 107 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:33,480 from where my kids live, my son and daughter in law and a granddaughter. 108 00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:35,640 And I'm sure you've 109 00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:39,840 probably seen it where a homeowner shot through a door 110 00:05:39,840 --> 00:05:43,840 and killed a lady who they were cleaning crew, and they'd gone to the wrong house. 111 00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:48,960 And so he ended up being charged with, I believe it was voluntary manslaughter, 112 00:05:48,960 --> 00:05:52,120 which, you know, talking to my friends in law enforcement, 113 00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:54,360 we feel like that was an appropriate charge. 114 00:05:54,360 --> 00:05:57,520 But it's made national news for a variety of reasons. But, 115 00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:01,840 I'm going to offer my opinion that there's some things 116 00:06:01,840 --> 00:06:06,560 missing in his thought process when it comes to firing a gun. 117 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:09,560 First of all, firing through a locked door. 118 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:11,560 That that's problematic right there. 119 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:14,840 So that's the kind of stuff we're going to talk about a little bit of, 120 00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:19,960 because really, you know, what starts the whole sequence of a deadly force 121 00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:23,880 engagement is you deciding, I need to pull a gun, and I need to go to work here. 122 00:06:24,280 --> 00:06:28,080 So that's really what we're going to hone in, because as we've talked about 123 00:06:28,080 --> 00:06:31,320 many, many times, and I jokingly called the scared bunny defense, 124 00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:34,680 there's a time to just turn tail and run. 125 00:06:34,840 --> 00:06:37,160 And, I know Roy, we've talked about it. 126 00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:41,040 It's hard for us because all those years we weren't allowed to run. 127 00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:44,680 We had to go toward the problem, toward the gun fire, toward the guy with the gun. 128 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:48,600 And, it's hard once you retire to realize that. 129 00:06:48,600 --> 00:06:51,600 Yeah, if I have to defend somebody's life, I will. 130 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:56,200 But otherwise, my really my highest duty is to get me and my loved ones 131 00:06:56,400 --> 00:07:00,400 and my friends out of harm's way, and then I'll do what I can do. So, 132 00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:03,080 I mean, 133 00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:05,520 your thoughts on that in, in terms of, 134 00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:08,400 running toward the gunfire instead of, 135 00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:11,400 running away and shirking your duty? 136 00:07:11,400 --> 00:07:14,600 Well, you know, I think there really are people who are warriors. 137 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:18,360 There really are people who have the experience, you know? 138 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:21,760 I mean, you get some multiple tours, combat vet, 139 00:07:22,320 --> 00:07:27,160 you know, who's got extensive training and is well armed and practices a lot. 140 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:31,920 And now if he's out with his family and he sees someone getting attacked, 141 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:35,600 well, at that point, then you know, he needs to make that decision. 142 00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:38,520 If he can, if he can go, go 143 00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:41,520 hide behind the car, right to his family. 144 00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:45,480 And if he thinks that he has the ability and that it makes sense 145 00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:48,880 for him to engage us and save this stranger's life. 146 00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:49,800 Right. 147 00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:53,760 Then that's a decision he has to make. 148 00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:54,040 Yeah. 149 00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:57,560 I mean, and I know a lot of people will say, well, 150 00:07:57,840 --> 00:08:00,880 you know, then that's not manly if you don't automatically do it. 151 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:05,520 But I've been in situations is you weigh the odds, you know, 152 00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:10,640 I mean, if I was in a bank line and I had my five shot jframe in my pocket 153 00:08:10,920 --> 00:08:15,120 and four guys came in armed with AK 47 to hold the bank up, 154 00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:19,800 I would smile and do anything they told me to do. 155 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:21,560 You know, be a good witness. 156 00:08:21,560 --> 00:08:26,520 I would be the world's best witness, you know, now, if the gun came out 157 00:08:27,040 --> 00:08:30,400 and he was going to shoot somebody. 158 00:08:31,080 --> 00:08:34,080 Like I knew that for sure. 159 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:36,920 You still have a decision to make. 160 00:08:36,920 --> 00:08:39,920 In other words, could you win this fight? 161 00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:41,280 Right. 162 00:08:41,280 --> 00:08:45,160 Maybe if I had a high capacity nine and I was in a position in the bank 163 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:50,160 and I could call upon my old, you know, IPsec and ID training 164 00:08:50,520 --> 00:08:53,440 and go blink, blink, blink blink blink and shoot all for real fast. 165 00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:56,000 I don't know, that's a decision you'd have to make there. But 166 00:08:57,080 --> 00:08:58,200 I think for people to 167 00:08:58,200 --> 00:09:01,840 just assume, oh, well, if I see something, I'm going to get involved. 168 00:09:02,280 --> 00:09:05,280 Yeah, that is really not always a good idea. 169 00:09:05,880 --> 00:09:08,960 As I had somebody tell me one time and he did just that, 170 00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:13,640 then he got sued by the bad guy who didn't die. 171 00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:17,880 He got sued by the victim who was wounded in the altercation. 172 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:21,960 He got sued by the store that he was inside 173 00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:24,960 when he pulled his gun and started this fight basically. 174 00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:25,680 Right. 175 00:09:25,680 --> 00:09:28,440 And so to what end I mean 176 00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:31,440 these were all strangers, you know, 177 00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:35,240 and I know that's mercenary, but I think it's okay to be mercenary. 178 00:09:35,640 --> 00:09:38,400 Yeah, well, and I think you raised that. 179 00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:39,040 Good point. 180 00:09:39,040 --> 00:09:42,200 Okay, first of all, we're thinking about this. 181 00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:45,520 You know, we've talked about that the whole preplan. 182 00:09:45,520 --> 00:09:47,080 When I walk into a convenience store. 183 00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:51,000 Well, certainly when I walk into the bank like I did yesterday, I'm looking around. 184 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:54,240 I'm being where I'm thinking, okay, if if the guy suddenly 185 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:57,360 burst out the front door with a shotgun, what am I going to do? 186 00:09:57,360 --> 00:10:00,840 I'm I'm going to go this way, that way, that way, or am I going to try to engage? 187 00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:03,760 And then, you know, you get beyond that decision. 188 00:10:03,760 --> 00:10:08,080 Like you said, there's four guys with AK and you got your five shot jframe. 189 00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:10,080 Well, if they're getting ready to shoot somebody 190 00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:11,680 and they're all standing there and you know, 191 00:10:11,680 --> 00:10:14,160 three of the four have got their back to you. 192 00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:15,520 That's one thing. 193 00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:16,840 It's a whole different deal. 194 00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:18,000 If they're you know, 195 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:21,960 if they've used good tactics and they're spread out and you're going to lose that. 196 00:10:21,960 --> 00:10:25,080 So you might get one bad guy, but you're going to die. 197 00:10:25,080 --> 00:10:29,440 And that might exacerbate what's going on to the point that there's been, you know, 198 00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:34,000 countless examples of where when victims did fight back and effectively it 199 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:37,680 it angered the bad guys and they ended up hurting everybody. 200 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:40,000 So that's the thing. 201 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:43,880 There's no hard and fast rule and is like, we like we always like to say 202 00:10:44,760 --> 00:10:47,400 carrying a gun is a thinking person's occupation. 203 00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:51,200 And like you said, where I think you hit on another good point that we hear 204 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:55,360 a lot is a gun is not a magic, talisman 205 00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:58,640 or to use a big word or a magic thing. 206 00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:04,440 And, going back to this gentleman that, that allegedly killed the, 207 00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:08,800 the cleaning lady, he said in the media in numerous places. 208 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:10,320 So I'm comfortable saying this. 209 00:11:10,320 --> 00:11:13,720 He had bought this gun years ago and hadn't fired it ever. 210 00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:17,240 So, you know that that puts another layer 211 00:11:17,240 --> 00:11:20,200 of like you said, Roy, you're an IPsec competitor. 212 00:11:20,200 --> 00:11:21,920 Yeah, I know you're shooting skills. 213 00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:23,640 You know, you're shooting skills. 214 00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:24,880 That's a different equation 215 00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:27,880 than a guy that says, well, I've never really even fired this gun. 216 00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:29,880 Do I want to get involved in this? 217 00:11:29,880 --> 00:11:30,360 You know, 218 00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:33,360 maybe this isn't going to go so well for me and everybody else around there. 219 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:37,400 So lots to unpack on on that whole decision making process. 220 00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:41,880 And a lot of it goes back to yourself and what you know 221 00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:45,080 you can do versus what you think you can do. 222 00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:48,880 I want to address the fact that I don't want people in comments 223 00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:52,040 to say, well, you're telling us it's not good to fight back. 224 00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:55,160 And no. No. We never said that. 225 00:11:55,560 --> 00:12:00,680 We said, you need to have the wherewithal and the common sense and the ability 226 00:12:00,680 --> 00:12:05,600 and the equipment and the environment to be able to fight back effectively. 227 00:12:06,120 --> 00:12:09,920 Now, yes, there are dead end times, you know, you're 228 00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:13,440 you're getting in your car with your family and you're attacked 229 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:16,440 by some thug and he pulls a knife out. 230 00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:19,320 You know, you don't have time to be making any of those decisions. 231 00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:19,800 You know? 232 00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:21,840 I mean, you you have to fight back there. 233 00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:22,880 You've been forced. 234 00:12:22,880 --> 00:12:24,960 Your hand has been forced. 235 00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:27,880 And there might be times where that occurs. 236 00:12:27,880 --> 00:12:32,360 I know there was that mall shooting a few years ago, and a young fellow 237 00:12:32,880 --> 00:12:34,440 took on that guy with a rifle, 238 00:12:34,440 --> 00:12:38,040 and it was like, almost like a 40 or 50 yard shot inside of the mall. 239 00:12:38,520 --> 00:12:40,200 But, you know, that was a situation 240 00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:43,120 where he had a position of cover and concealment. 241 00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:46,120 He felt that he had the ability to do it. 242 00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:50,360 He weighed the consequences of not of this fellow continuing. 243 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:55,200 And I think he made a good decision, you know, obviously came out, you know. 244 00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:59,440 Well, but if you reverse that role and it's that guy that, hey, 245 00:12:59,440 --> 00:13:00,560 I've got my small frame 246 00:13:00,560 --> 00:13:03,960 revolver that I've only shot one time when I bought it six years ago. 247 00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:07,440 And am I going to take a shot at 50 yards, you know. 248 00:13:07,440 --> 00:13:08,040 No, I'm. 249 00:13:08,040 --> 00:13:09,240 People do. Right. 250 00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:12,240 Yeah, but I mean, that's just plain ridiculous. 251 00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:15,280 I think if you listen Darrell Bock, he said something one time 252 00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:19,000 and it really it really struck a chord with me and that, 253 00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:23,000 he of course, is, is well known for his, 254 00:13:23,200 --> 00:13:27,080 small revolver and combat revolver experience and training. 255 00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:30,960 And he said he said a jframe 256 00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:34,440 is something that you push into somebody and pull the trigger 257 00:13:35,760 --> 00:13:38,760 and and it it's he it really struck a chord 258 00:13:38,760 --> 00:13:41,760 because it's like, yeah, jframe is not really something 259 00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:44,560 you want to engage somebody at 20 yards with. 260 00:13:44,560 --> 00:13:47,400 I mean, unless you're backed into a corner, you have no other choice. 261 00:13:47,400 --> 00:13:50,520 Yeah, but but a jframe that's in your pocket 262 00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:53,760 is to get the guy off of you. 263 00:13:53,760 --> 00:13:54,520 Right? 264 00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:57,120 So you stick it in his belly and pull the trigger, 265 00:13:57,120 --> 00:13:59,920 or you stick it down his mouth and pull the trigger. 266 00:13:59,920 --> 00:14:02,320 Right. And then you run like a son of a bitch. 267 00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:06,240 So that's almost should be the baseline that I think 268 00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:10,240 people should do, especially if you're just the regular Joe. 269 00:14:10,280 --> 00:14:11,880 You know, you've got a gun or two. 270 00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:14,680 You maybe you've gone over the range a few times. 271 00:14:14,680 --> 00:14:17,760 You went and took the trouble of having your one day of training 272 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:19,000 for concealed carry, 273 00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:22,280 which, by the way, ladies and gentlemen, isn't training at all. 274 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:24,480 Okay, not at all. 275 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:25,400 I mean, it shows you how 276 00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:28,800 maybe not to shoot yourself in the foot in the safety of a square range. 277 00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:33,960 But there there are so many more things you need to learn about tactics. 278 00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:38,160 And, you know, and as Brent said, the situational awareness, 279 00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:40,920 you know, you should. You should always be, 280 00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:42,600 aware. 281 00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:47,520 Jeff Cooper, coined a series of colors for awareness. 282 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:53,560 So there's white, yellow, red and black, I think, so if you're in. 283 00:14:53,760 --> 00:14:56,280 Orange is in there two. Origins in there. Yeah, yeah. 284 00:14:56,280 --> 00:14:57,680 Oh that's right. Yeah. That's right. 285 00:14:57,680 --> 00:15:01,960 So, if you're white, that means you're completely oblivious 286 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:03,520 to what's going on around you. 287 00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:05,840 You might as well just be asleep. 288 00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:08,840 But there are most people. 289 00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:12,000 That's how they go through their day. Yep. 290 00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:15,880 You know, if they're in target, they're in white, you know. 291 00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:16,760 And I was looking for. 292 00:15:16,760 --> 00:15:20,040 Oh, here it is. And this this. 293 00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:23,520 And I'm for those listening I'm holding up my cell phone. 294 00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:26,840 It's it is stunning to me. 295 00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:30,600 The people and they tend to be younger, but I see old people doing this too. 296 00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:33,000 They get so engaged in that thing. 297 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:35,720 Walking, going in the bank, shopping. 298 00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:38,640 Yeah. Yeah. No, I don't do that. 299 00:15:38,640 --> 00:15:41,800 It's hard for me to understand, but I 300 00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:44,880 it is amazing to see people. 301 00:15:44,880 --> 00:15:48,520 People have been hit by cars, you know, walked into robberies 302 00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:51,960 because they're busy looking at cat videos on TikTok. 303 00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:54,600 Well, you see, this makes no sense. 304 00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:55,800 You're saying you know, walk 305 00:15:55,800 --> 00:15:59,640 into Starbucks with their phone down here and they never once looked up, you know. 306 00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:01,520 Yeah. So there's conditioned white. 307 00:16:01,520 --> 00:16:03,240 And then I believe there's condition yellow. 308 00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:07,720 And what condition yellow is and you can be in condition yellow all the time. 309 00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:10,440 And that just means you're aware of what's going on around you. 310 00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:12,240 It doesn't mean that you're out of your swivel head 311 00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:14,440 and you're constantly searching everywhere, 312 00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:16,880 but you're just aware, you know, before you get out of your car 313 00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:19,200 in a parking lot, you look around to see who's out there. 314 00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:22,000 Right after you get out of your car, you lock your door. 315 00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:25,880 Maybe you look around again, okay, I'm going to walk to the store. 316 00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:30,000 I look for traffic, you go in the store, you look around, see what's going on. 317 00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:31,440 Is there a crazy guy inside? 318 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:33,720 You know, are the employees tense? 319 00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:36,160 Is something going on? It's easy. 320 00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:39,000 You know, when you come home that night, you're in condition yellow. 321 00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:41,320 So before you go to bed, you make sure the windows are locked. 322 00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:42,840 You make sure the doors are locked. 323 00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:43,880 Is the alarm on? 324 00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:46,440 You know, or whatever it is. That's easy. Easy, easy. 325 00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:49,360 So now, if you're out there in your car and you get out of your car, 326 00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:54,240 you're in yellow and you see a strange guy over there, where now you go to orange. 327 00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:55,960 I believe that's when orange comes in. 328 00:16:55,960 --> 00:16:58,960 Yeah, that is that there's something of interest. 329 00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:02,160 What's what's going on over there. 330 00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:02,760 Right. 331 00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:05,760 And so you have to decide does it apply to me. 332 00:17:05,840 --> 00:17:07,400 Does it affect me. 333 00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:10,800 Is it anything I should be thinking about having to take action on? 334 00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:12,320 You know, I don't know. 335 00:17:12,320 --> 00:17:16,000 But at some point, if that orange thread pulls 336 00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:19,920 a big butcher knife out, well, now you go to red. 337 00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:24,000 Yeah, because red means you are identified a threat, right. 338 00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:25,680 And at this point you need to be doing 339 00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:28,840 whatever it is you're doing, including getting your car and leave. 340 00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:30,080 Yeah. 341 00:17:30,080 --> 00:17:30,960 Right. Yeah. 342 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:33,920 And then they they I believe he had a condition. 343 00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:36,360 Black and black just meant that. Well, you were engaged. 344 00:17:36,360 --> 00:17:39,720 Now, you know, shots are being fired or the fight is on. 345 00:17:40,320 --> 00:17:40,840 But I think 346 00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:44,640 the two things that are most important there is don't be in condition white. 347 00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:47,400 Don't be that person. 348 00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:48,200 You know, as you say, 349 00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:51,200 with your head buried in your phone as you're going about your day, 350 00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:56,000 which is hopeless for us to even say that because everyone's still going to do it. 351 00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:57,160 Yeah. Yeah. 352 00:17:57,160 --> 00:18:00,800 Yeah, but, I mean, at least try for yellow sometimes. 353 00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:04,200 I mean, practice a little bit. Yeah. 354 00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:06,080 You know. Yeah. So. 355 00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:09,640 Well, you know, talking about that decision process and 356 00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:13,200 I hope to remember to go back to what you just talked about because, 357 00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:16,720 I was going to use an example from when, we just visited your house. 358 00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:19,560 And, you know, I went to the store and took our dogs. 359 00:18:19,560 --> 00:18:23,920 And, I think that was kind of instructive on maybe how to do things, 360 00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:27,200 but I was also going to say a story that I have told before. 361 00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:29,480 So I won't, go too long with it. 362 00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:32,480 But, myself and Kevin Michelle Koski from 363 00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:35,480 USA were partners out at gunsight. 364 00:18:35,560 --> 00:18:36,840 Two years ago. 365 00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:42,120 We were in a team tactics, mini class, and, we were one of the shoot houses. 366 00:18:42,120 --> 00:18:45,400 And so we get set up wearing, same gear 367 00:18:45,800 --> 00:18:48,400 and, we're in a quote unquote 368 00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:52,160 hotel boarding house or whatever, and there's a problem in the hallway. 369 00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:54,960 So then the instructor goes, go. 370 00:18:54,960 --> 00:18:57,600 So we hear all this commotion, and the role players 371 00:18:57,600 --> 00:19:00,600 are drunk buffoons, and, you know, then they're angry. 372 00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:03,320 So, you know, and guns, you know, and all this. 373 00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:05,640 So we set up, we're in position. 374 00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:06,840 You know, Kevin's a great shot. 375 00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:11,280 I believe current or former, law enforcement officer. 376 00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:12,400 Okay, so we're set. 377 00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:16,000 We've got good cones of fire and stuff, and the guys come in and bang, bang, 378 00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:16,600 shoot them up. 379 00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:20,400 And I think one of us got hit slightly, and we we took 380 00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:23,400 care of business and killed the role players. 381 00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:27,720 And so the, the instructor comes in and goes, okay, you quitted yourself 382 00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:29,480 honorably. 383 00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:32,480 Did you think about just barricading the door? 384 00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:34,920 Well, well, no, no. 385 00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:35,880 We're gunfighters. 386 00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:37,280 We're gunfighters from hell. 387 00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:39,720 Yeah, we want to invite them in. 388 00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:42,720 But that really drove home the point that, you know, 389 00:19:43,360 --> 00:19:45,560 we were certainly ready if they came in the room. 390 00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:48,120 But why even allow them to come in the room? 391 00:19:48,120 --> 00:19:49,760 You know, don't don't engage. 392 00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:52,560 Don't insert yourself into a problem or invite a problem. 393 00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:54,760 And I'm 394 00:19:54,760 --> 00:19:58,440 sure you probably have, too, Roy, but I've done that as a younger man 395 00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:02,840 where I inserted myself or took steps that I didn't need to, 396 00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:05,840 and it was probably based on ego more than anything else. 397 00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:09,400 But that was really eye opening to me that we had all the capabilities, 398 00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:11,520 the training, the everything you need. 399 00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:12,840 We're ready to go to a gunfight. 400 00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:16,240 But as I believe Sun Tzu said in the Art of War, 401 00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:18,920 you know the best battle is one that you don't fight. 402 00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:22,880 So that really that one moment, even though I've had a lot of experience, 403 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:26,440 that one moment really, really got into my head about, 404 00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:29,960 you know, all we had to do was push a couch up against the door. 405 00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:31,680 And, I mean, we're still ready to fight 406 00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:35,160 if they come in, but they're in a really bad position, 407 00:20:35,360 --> 00:20:38,280 and odds are they try that door, they're going to move on down the hallway 408 00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:39,720 and it's not my problem anymore. 409 00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:42,720 So that was that was pretty instructive to me. 410 00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:44,720 I think that's the fallacy. 411 00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:48,320 And of the effectiveness of shoot houses personally. 412 00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:52,000 Because when you go in, I think it's different. 413 00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:56,720 If before you go in they say there is a threat in there, 414 00:20:56,720 --> 00:21:00,520 who is going to try to kill you, you need to get them first. 415 00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:01,200 Okay? 416 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:03,120 I know what the rules are, right? 417 00:21:03,120 --> 00:21:04,400 It's mano a mano here. 418 00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:04,760 We go. 419 00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:08,760 Yeah, but in the real world, you don't know what the rules are. 420 00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:09,240 Yeah. 421 00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:13,880 And so, one time, million years ago, I was at the Thunder Ranch shoot house. 422 00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:15,680 And it was 423 00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:19,000 really a very pretty sophisticated for the time. 424 00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:21,240 This is probably 25 years ago. 425 00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:23,760 And we went in I. 426 00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:26,520 It was Susie and I, we were in a team tactics class. 427 00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:29,400 And what's a better teammate than your wife? 428 00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:31,000 Because chances are pretty good. Sure. 429 00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:33,600 Well, plus it helps for Susie Knight and it's Susie. 430 00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:35,040 Come on. Yeah I know yeah. 431 00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:36,640 She's like having a dragon. 432 00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:38,200 You know, next to you. 433 00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:40,800 But I mean, because she and I covered each other 434 00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:43,000 in the real world, in the street in San Diego. 435 00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:44,760 I mean, we both pointed bad guys 436 00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:48,240 or guns at the same bad guy before, so this was pretty natural to us, 437 00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:51,080 other than I had to constantly remember to get out of her way 438 00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:53,960 if there was a threat because she would want a shooting, right? 439 00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:56,400 So she would nudge me aside. 440 00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:58,760 It's like, it's like there would be the target. 441 00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:02,080 And she pushed me aside and engage, you know, and that's like, okay. 442 00:22:02,360 --> 00:22:04,800 But yeah, there was one where there was a guy, 443 00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:07,480 who had barricaded himself in 444 00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:10,600 a room and that our job was to go get him right. 445 00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:15,360 So we went up inside and I actually did exactly what you just said 446 00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:19,320 was I took a chair that was there, and I put it against the doorknob. 447 00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:21,720 And then I backed up. 448 00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:24,960 And then I got on my pretend radio and I said, you 449 00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:29,120 know, unit 17 have the other responding officers, 450 00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:34,440 secure the perimeter of the house and call in the hostage negotiator. 451 00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:37,760 And, of course, what? 452 00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:39,960 They're standing there staring at me. Right? 453 00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:41,120 Yeah, yeah. 454 00:22:41,120 --> 00:22:44,120 And I said, that's what I would do, 455 00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:46,840 you know, and if I was just 456 00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:50,640 some civilian, I'm not going to go in there after him. 457 00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:51,720 You know, 458 00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:54,840 that's like, as a matter of fact, I'm going to find the door out of here. 459 00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:55,920 Yeah. 460 00:22:56,880 --> 00:22:57,320 And I 461 00:22:57,320 --> 00:23:00,360 will say one thing that was very interesting on the police 462 00:23:00,360 --> 00:23:03,760 department, we're trained you you shoot until the threats down right. 463 00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:07,640 Same shoot house. 464 00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:10,560 I think I'm telling this story to illustrate the importance 465 00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:13,680 of training it as if you have training versus if you don't have training. 466 00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:17,520 So most people in this shoot house, because I watched, 467 00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:21,480 there was a target that was hung on a wall and they had it arranged. 468 00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:24,480 It was a very clever target system that if you 469 00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:27,640 if you hit the target in a, 470 00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:30,680 a stopping zone, you know, like high center chest or something, 471 00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:34,360 it would bounce a magnet off and the target would fall. 472 00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:38,040 Right. So it's pretty clever. Right. 473 00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:39,600 So there's two things going on. 474 00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:42,280 You have to have the wherewithal to hit the target correctly. 475 00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:45,480 And then you have to have the wherewithal to stop shooting. 476 00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:48,640 If it falls because you now the target's down. 477 00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:49,720 Right. Yeah. 478 00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:54,640 Well except for one thing, I had never shot a target like this before. 479 00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:57,560 So I had this 480 00:23:57,560 --> 00:24:00,560 threat in front of me holding a gun pointed at me. 481 00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:04,200 And so I lit him up with my browning high power, and. 482 00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:07,440 But where? I made a mistake was I shot him. 483 00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:09,840 And as he was falling, I continued to shoot him. 484 00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:11,040 Of course, 485 00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:14,640 you know, I was like, pa pa pa pa pa pa pa pa all the way down to the ground. 486 00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:14,960 Right? 487 00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:18,720 So there were bullet holes in the wall, bullet holes in the target 488 00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:20,280 that weren't supposed to be there and all that. 489 00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:21,960 And I remember 490 00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:24,760 Clint, it's it looked at me, 491 00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:27,240 you know, and he went, 492 00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:29,600 okay, 493 00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:32,680 you know, it's like he understood, right? 494 00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:34,200 Yeah. Yep. 495 00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:37,360 But but I think yeah, if you didn't experience him like that, 496 00:24:37,360 --> 00:24:40,760 well then, you know, you wouldn't know if you're in the field and you're some guy 497 00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:44,520 and you shoot a bad guy and you're still standing there, then you do that shooting. 498 00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:45,360 Yeah. 499 00:24:45,360 --> 00:24:48,280 But naw, I think people would go, well, what do I do now? Yeah. 500 00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:50,280 You know. Yeah, exactly. 501 00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:52,800 Well, you know, the follow up to that story from 502 00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:57,920 gunsight is our next evolution was we were in the cantina and we're 503 00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:01,800 sitting there having our imaginary beers, which that's a factor. 504 00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:05,040 We're drinking and carrying, you know, firearms. 505 00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:07,200 So a guy comes in, he's robbing the place. 506 00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:11,160 So we're sitting at the table back here, up at the counter guy with a shotgun. 507 00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:12,280 Right. 508 00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:15,600 It was funny because the instructor said, you guys got out of there so fast, 509 00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:18,600 your beer mugs were still suspended in midair 510 00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:20,880 when you were out the door. 511 00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:25,160 But what we did was we got outside, positioned ourselves in, 512 00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:28,400 you know, to a no. 513 00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:29,640 What am I trying to say? 514 00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:31,080 Not a circular firing squad. 515 00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:33,160 We both had, clear shot at the door. 516 00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:36,960 We were behind cover, and when the guy came out, we challenged him. 517 00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:38,160 He wanted to fight. 518 00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:39,280 He lost that fight. 519 00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:41,600 So we did both things there. 520 00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:42,600 We disengage, 521 00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:47,000 but we put ourselves in a spot where we were far more tactically advantaged. 522 00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:49,640 And then we chose to set the stage. 523 00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:50,960 And it's that old military 524 00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:54,200 maxim of you choose where the fight happens, don't let them. 525 00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:58,080 And kind of going back to your, your bank scenario, 526 00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:01,280 if if you know, again, you're in a position 527 00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:05,160 where you can get cover, concealment, whatever it takes, that's one thing. 528 00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:10,680 But if you're just reacting, it had better be a such an extreme situation 529 00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:11,680 where literally, 530 00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:15,280 I've at least got to try to shoot my way out of this or I'm going to die. 531 00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:19,720 But in real life, those situations are actually pretty few and far between. 532 00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:23,960 Most of the time, people get involved before they really have to, 533 00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:27,440 so these are things we want you to be thinking about 534 00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:32,320 because as Roy said before, you don't have time to suss this out 535 00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:33,240 when suddenly it's like, 536 00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:37,160 oh my, there's a gun, because there is no more chilling feeling. 537 00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:41,200 Even the guys that have kind of been there done that then, oh, he's got a gun. 538 00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:43,440 Crap. You know, there's no thinking. 539 00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:46,240 I think this is 540 00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:49,800 pivots on one important thing, which is if you carry a gun 541 00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:53,040 for personal defense, you have to leave your ego at home. 542 00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:55,560 Yeah. Period. 543 00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:58,640 And so just because somebody disses you, 544 00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:02,280 just because something happens and you think, well, if I don't intervene, 545 00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:05,880 then people are going to think that I'm a fraidy cat or, 546 00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:08,920 you know, a knows all of that does not apply. 547 00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:10,800 Yeah. It's really important. 548 00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:13,800 And I think there's two categories here though, and we've touched on it. 549 00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:16,880 There's the seasoned 550 00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:20,040 trained combat or field police vet, 551 00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:23,640 you know, with carrying a real gun. 552 00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:27,080 And he's got a lot of training and his training is current. 553 00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:28,320 Right. 554 00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:33,720 So he or she may be better qualified to intervene in a situation where, 555 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:37,000 you know, not just like, hey, this could be a bank robbery, but like, 556 00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:40,280 this person is attacking this other person with a knife. 557 00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:44,280 I have the ability to probably interfere with this and stop it. 558 00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:47,520 Yeah, right. Okay. That's good. 559 00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:51,360 Now, though, you know, you're Caspar Milquetoast 560 00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:54,880 and you've got your wife, and she's holding your baby, 561 00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:58,200 and you just left target, and you're walking to your car 562 00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:01,840 and you see two, two transients starting to get into a fight, 563 00:28:02,360 --> 00:28:04,920 and one of them picks up a baseball bat. 564 00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:07,240 Well, you should get in your car 565 00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:10,720 and call 911 and let them know what's going on. 566 00:28:11,120 --> 00:28:12,720 Because why risk your family? 567 00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:14,280 Why risk your life? 568 00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:16,080 You don't have the training for it. 569 00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:19,080 You probably don't have the gun for it. 570 00:28:19,120 --> 00:28:21,000 Maybe. Right. 571 00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:24,960 When was the last time you tried engaging a target like this? 572 00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:26,800 In a training scenario? 573 00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:29,800 Maybe. Probably never. Right. 574 00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:31,320 And so. 575 00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:34,320 So you're going to go over there and say, hey, you put that, 576 00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:37,560 knife down and he's going to turn and run to you. 577 00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:38,840 Yeah, right. 578 00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:41,000 Because they're nuts. You never know. Yeah. 579 00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:44,880 So now suddenly you went from, I'm getting in my car with my wife from target, 580 00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:47,920 who has the baby to you have this maniac 581 00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:51,160 with crazy eyes and a bloody butcher knife running at you. 582 00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:51,760 Yeah. 583 00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:54,280 And you've never had training for any of this, right? 584 00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:54,840 Yeah. 585 00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:58,080 And, you know, as they say, if you never train, 586 00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:01,920 but if you're in a situation, like a use of force situation, 587 00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:03,560 you revert to training. 588 00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:07,360 And if you've never trained, then that means you revert to nothing. 589 00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:08,720 Yeah. 590 00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:11,280 And we've all seen that, so. Yep. 591 00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:14,240 So remember the one thing we're not saying. 592 00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:15,480 Don't defend yourself. 593 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:15,760 Yeah. 594 00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:20,160 You know, we're not saying if you have the skill and you have the equipment 595 00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:23,560 to intervene to save someone else's life, 596 00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:26,120 then you should do it if you want to, right? 597 00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:30,320 Yeah, but but we're also saying that you need to keep your wits about you 598 00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:32,400 and look at the odds and look at your training. 599 00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:35,240 Be realistic when you think about yourself. 600 00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:38,240 If you're a keyboard commando, that's a lot different 601 00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:41,400 than actually having faced it. 602 00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:46,280 So and I'm just going to make I just thought of this and this happened. 603 00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:50,040 Oh, I it was after I retired, but I couldn't tell you. 604 00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:53,160 It's been ten years ago myself 605 00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:57,400 and another guy who, if I remember correctly, was a police officer. 606 00:29:57,400 --> 00:29:59,160 We were at a training school. 607 00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:02,040 I can't even remember where it was, but I remember this very vividly. 608 00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:06,400 We were headed into like Walmart to buy some stuff for the school, 609 00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:11,280 and there was a guy and a gal arguing in the handicapped space of all things. 610 00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:14,760 But this guy, you know, you're not supposed to judge a book by its cover. 611 00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:17,960 But as a veteran police officer, I judged him immediately. 612 00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:20,000 This guy was a crap bird. 613 00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:24,000 And, they were in a very heated argument with wife, girlfriend, 614 00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:28,120 whatever she was, or drug dealer, I don't know, but it was obvious to us 615 00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:31,120 that this was on the verge of getting real physical. 616 00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:33,240 Well, what we did was, you know, 617 00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:37,200 option number one could have been we'll run up there. 618 00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:40,200 Oh, here's my badge and you need to stop this. 619 00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:43,480 And now I've inserted myself into a problem that maybe I can't handle. 620 00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:47,440 The option B that we took is we did the same thing. 621 00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:50,080 We both got behind a parked car right across. 622 00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:51,240 We watched. 623 00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:53,640 And because other people were calling 911, 624 00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:56,880 so we knew the the police would be there instantly. 625 00:30:56,880 --> 00:31:01,080 But we both said later we didn't even talk about this, that we were posted out. 626 00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:02,120 We were ready to go. 627 00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:05,960 And if he started to hurt her very badly, pulled out a gun, a knife, 628 00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:07,320 a baseball bat and hit her 629 00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:09,520 something like that to where it was pretty obvious 630 00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:11,640 she was going to, or he was going to kill her. 631 00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:13,040 We were going to shoot him. 632 00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:15,720 But again, that was a decision 633 00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:18,720 that we instinctively made, 634 00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:21,960 based on the circumstances and didn't even really have to talk about it. 635 00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:22,960 We just got in a position. 636 00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:25,600 If we have to shoot him, we will, but we didn't have to. 637 00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:29,400 And so we actually never got involved until the police were there 638 00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:30,600 and they had to fight him. 639 00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:33,600 But they took care of that real quick but got him in cuffs and all that. 640 00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:35,000 So we walked over and identified. 641 00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:36,240 Yeah, we saw and he, you know, 642 00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:40,600 he open handed, slapped her and, you know, she was being a pill too. 643 00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:44,280 But, and I don't know what ended up happening other than he left in cuffs. 644 00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:47,560 But that was a situation where I think we did the right thing, 645 00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:51,640 that we were ready to defend this woman if she was going to be killed. 646 00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:54,840 But it didn't ever get to that point, and we didn't insert ourselves 647 00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:57,560 and make it worse to where, you know, if we'd walked up, 648 00:31:57,560 --> 00:32:00,120 this guy was angry enough, he probably would have come at us. 649 00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:02,160 And at that point, we're going to have to shoot him. 650 00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:06,360 And, I've got no problem with that, but I'd rather not shoot him 651 00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:07,200 for all those reasons. 652 00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:10,240 You talked about, Roy, that it get it ain't like TV. 653 00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:11,960 It gets pretty ugly afterwards. 654 00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:15,920 And, you know, I've we've got friends and I was just talking to one this week 655 00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:20,120 that is still dealing with the aftermath of his shooting 20 years later. So. 656 00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:24,360 Well and you I think the, the core thing 657 00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:27,360 to learn from that situation is you both had training. 658 00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:31,280 You know, and the average person walking flat footed 659 00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:35,240 into Walmart that day doesn't have the training. 660 00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:38,640 And they so they, they react rather than act. 661 00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:39,240 Yeah. 662 00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:41,760 You know, some years ago here we, you know, 663 00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:45,360 we live on some property and our, our driveway is a third of a mile long. 664 00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:51,320 And our neighbor at the top of the hill called me one one day 665 00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:54,680 and, said, hey, Roy, there's an accident out front 666 00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:59,640 and some guy is screaming at the girl who's still in the car. 667 00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:03,440 And I said, well, okay. 668 00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:05,320 I said, hey, can you tell me what's injured? 669 00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:06,520 She said, no, I can't tell. 670 00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:09,520 I said, hang up, down 911, make sure the cops are coming. 671 00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:12,640 And now at that point, because, okay, 672 00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:15,640 there was an accident, there may be somebody injured. 673 00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:19,680 This we've got a guy who might or might not be out of control screaming 674 00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:21,920 at a girlfriend. Right. 675 00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:23,160 Suzy and. I are here. 676 00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:24,840 We're armed. We have training. 677 00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:25,560 I think it was 678 00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:29,160 safe for us to at least go up and kind of see what was going on, right? 679 00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:31,800 Which is actually what we did. We got in the easy go. 680 00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:36,560 We drove up there, we stopped about, probably 10 or 12 yards from him. 681 00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:38,840 And I got out. 682 00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:41,120 Their car was stopped out on the roadway. 683 00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:43,560 I had my hand on my gun that was in my pocket. 684 00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:49,200 Susie stayed at the easy go with a really big gun that he didn't see. 685 00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:50,080 Yeah. 686 00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:53,040 And, and so what I did was. 687 00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:56,680 And this is what you need to listen to was I didn't say, hey, stop. 688 00:33:56,680 --> 00:33:58,320 Police were right. 689 00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:01,320 I said, hey, is everybody okay? 690 00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:02,920 Is the girl all right? 691 00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:05,400 The cops in the ambulance are coming right now. 692 00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:07,080 They should be here in a second. 693 00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:09,840 I just want to make sure everybody's okay. 694 00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:11,400 Are you okay, sir? 695 00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:16,160 Do you see right now they're a little distracted in there, you know? 696 00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:18,440 And sure enough, he calmed down. 697 00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:20,320 He like, he went, oh, yeah, that bitch. 698 00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:22,080 You know, she just go in this crash. 699 00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:23,880 Yeah. I said, is she injured? 700 00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:24,680 You know? 701 00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:27,680 No, I don't think so. Ma'am. Are you okay? 702 00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:28,640 You know. 703 00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:33,520 And then so we distracted him and then, you know, within a minute or two, 704 00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:37,560 the cop showed up and I just said, yeah, okay, that's what we saw. 705 00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:39,960 You know, if you need us. We lived there. 706 00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:42,520 But I did have to laugh, though, because as I turned around 707 00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:47,400 and walked back to the easy go, I saw that Susie had a bead on this guy. 708 00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:48,800 Oh, yeah. 709 00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:51,640 You know that if he had done anything silly, 710 00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:54,640 it would have been his last act on earth. 711 00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:55,760 You know, I. 712 00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:59,320 Just got to say, you can talk to me, or you can talk to her, or you can. 713 00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:00,200 Talk to her. 714 00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:01,640 Yeah, it was really funny. 715 00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:04,800 And when I went back, she said, damn. 716 00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:09,040 Oh, yeah. 717 00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:12,040 But again, yeah, it's a funny story, but 718 00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:17,040 I think that's the important things like to that's back to that situation. 719 00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:19,120 You got a couple bums fighting or something. 720 00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:21,880 Maybe all you need to do from over here. It just go. 721 00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:24,760 Hey, the cops are coming. Yeah, right. 722 00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:27,760 I mean, 99% of the time, everything stops. 723 00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:29,600 You know. Yeah. 724 00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:30,640 You know, it's just like. 725 00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:32,600 And half the time one of the guys or both 726 00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:34,920 are going to run away because they got warrants. 727 00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:36,680 They know they may never know. 728 00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:40,160 Yeah, but even if it's if it's a husband or wife thing and they just slap her 729 00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:43,280 or something, say, you know, hey, man, the cops are coming. 730 00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:44,720 I just called them. 731 00:35:44,720 --> 00:35:45,320 Yeah, right. 732 00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:48,240 Oh, wait, I think I hear the siren, right? Yeah. 733 00:35:48,240 --> 00:35:50,400 I mean, you know, always cheat, always win. 734 00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:51,920 There's nothing wrong with that, you know? 735 00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:56,040 But but yeah, don't go up there and try to intervene and booger, you know. 736 00:35:56,160 --> 00:35:56,720 Yeah. 737 00:35:56,720 --> 00:36:00,280 And and if he's actively stabbing her, I'll tell you about a situation 738 00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:01,520 that really gave me pause. 739 00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:04,280 It happened in Indianapolis at the convention center. 740 00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:06,840 And I don't know the details. I just read it in the paper. 741 00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:09,560 But there was a 742 00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:12,640 crazy guy, a homeless guy, crazy guy. 743 00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:14,640 I don't have any problem saying that. 744 00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:17,640 He was wandering the halls of the convention center 745 00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:20,840 and came up to another guy and just choked him, literally to death. 746 00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:22,600 And there were bystanders. 747 00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:25,160 And my thought is, now it's it's a gun free zone. 748 00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:29,200 But I guarantee you, I've carried a gun in there as a retired 749 00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:33,880 Leo, my thought is, okay, first of all, I'm not going to let him kill the guy. 750 00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:36,520 But at what point do you decide 751 00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:38,880 I need to shoot this guy because he's killing him? 752 00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:42,840 Or do you try to go hands on and find out that it's more than you can handle? 753 00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:44,360 Hands on? 754 00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:46,440 I mean, I don't know the answers to these questions, 755 00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:48,360 but it was one of those moments when I thought, okay, 756 00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:52,200 suddenly I look and I, you know, 20 yards down the corridor and this guy is just, 757 00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:55,720 you know, and the victim's got his tongue hanging out and his eyeballs protruding. 758 00:36:55,720 --> 00:36:58,720 It's like, oh, my Lord, he's really killing this guy. 759 00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:01,720 I'm going to try and do something because I think the victim's 760 00:37:01,720 --> 00:37:04,720 in danger of death or serious bodily injury. 761 00:37:04,720 --> 00:37:08,520 But at what point do I have to take my gun out and shoot this guy? 762 00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:10,440 Because, you know what's going to happen? 763 00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:13,440 This poor, sweet homeless guy who's misunderstood 764 00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:17,040 and was unarmed was killed by this fascist cop. 765 00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:19,440 I mean, I know that's what's going to going to result, 766 00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:23,880 and that's not going to stop me from doing what I can to help the victim. 767 00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:27,120 But I also want to do what I can to make sure 768 00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:31,080 I'm protected legally and in the public eye and all that. 769 00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:33,640 So, you know, again, I don't know what the right answer is 770 00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:35,880 other than I got to save the victim because he died. 771 00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:39,520 If I had been there with my gun, I would have done something. 772 00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:42,160 But it's an interesting, 773 00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:45,000 internal discussion of at what point does 774 00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:48,000 it become obvious and how do I handle that? 775 00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:52,400 You know, because again, it as a retired police officer, the guy, 776 00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:56,960 this poor guy, he's had mental issues, and this cop just killed him. 777 00:37:56,960 --> 00:37:57,480 It's like. 778 00:37:57,480 --> 00:37:58,560 But he was killing a guy, 779 00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:01,080 you know, that that won't really enter into the discussion. 780 00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:05,600 So anyway, that that still sticks with me to this day of I can picture myself 781 00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:07,200 because I've been there many, many times 782 00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:10,200 and it's like, oh my, my lord, he's choking this guy to death. 783 00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:13,320 Well, that's unarmed. That's what you know. 784 00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:14,160 And that's okay. 785 00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:16,440 If he was unarmed, if he was still using deadly force. 786 00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:18,720 Right, right. Exactly that you have to be playing. 787 00:38:18,720 --> 00:38:21,560 What if so you you saw that situation you played. 788 00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:21,960 What if. 789 00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:22,920 What would I do? 790 00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:24,040 And you gave yourself, 791 00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:25,640 you know, alternate ideas that way 792 00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:27,720 when something happens, you revert to your training. 793 00:38:27,720 --> 00:38:30,880 Your training is if I see that happen, I'm going to intervene. 794 00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:34,200 And, you know, in a situation like that, 795 00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:37,080 you know, you pick up a chair and bash the guy in the head with it. 796 00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:39,440 You know, you don't always have to go to guns. 797 00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:42,480 And that's the other thing is it's the what is it? 798 00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:45,520 If you only have a hammer that everything looks like a nail. 799 00:38:45,720 --> 00:38:46,440 Yeah, right. 800 00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:49,360 So if you have a gun, you think, oh, I have to shoot, you know. 801 00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:54,200 Well, no, actually, like I said a minute ago, distraction works very well too. 802 00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:55,680 I mean, one of those bystanders 803 00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:59,160 could have maybe gone up and said, the cops are coming. 804 00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:00,960 Yeah, they're here right now. 805 00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:03,440 You know, I mean, you try if you know what hit him in the head with a chair, 806 00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:05,880 then you try something like that or kick him. 807 00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:08,120 Now people are they're afraid. It's like. 808 00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:11,640 I mean, I don't know what percentage of adults in America have actually, 809 00:39:11,720 --> 00:39:15,080 really, honestly been in a fight, but it's probably not real big. 810 00:39:15,240 --> 00:39:17,920 And getting smaller, I think. Yeah. 811 00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:19,480 Back to that distraction thing. 812 00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:21,680 Masala cube has a technique. 813 00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:23,600 I don't know if he developed it, but he promotes it. 814 00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:25,840 And I think it's really, really smart. 815 00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:29,160 And that is that you take, like, a $20 bill 816 00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:32,160 and a couple of ones, maybe real obvious, 817 00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:35,600 and put it on a little cheap money clip and you keep that in your pocket. 818 00:39:36,240 --> 00:39:39,800 So if somebody says, hey, give me your wallet, you say, sure, 819 00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:44,280 you reach in, you throw that money clip down over there. 820 00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:45,400 Right. 821 00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:49,080 Well, I promise you, he's going to go get it right, which now 822 00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:53,000 gives you the chance to pull your gun and claim to run and hide. 823 00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:54,320 To scream like a girl. 824 00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:57,320 I mean, whatever it is you want to do, but it gives you, you know, a chance. 825 00:39:57,440 --> 00:39:58,760 So that distraction thing. 826 00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:01,520 So your guy choking that guy out, I don't know if distraction. 827 00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:01,960 What? It work. 828 00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:04,560 Sounds like he was a nutcase sometimes. 829 00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:07,440 What's that old southern, adage? 830 00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:09,360 Yeah. He needed killing. 831 00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:09,760 You know. 832 00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:11,520 That's absolutely true. Yeah. 833 00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:14,400 And you may you may have not had any option on that one. 834 00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:16,600 Yeah. And there's another factor. 835 00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:20,680 And it's not necessarily a gun factor, but it is is the idea was he 836 00:40:20,680 --> 00:40:24,600 110 pounds, soaking wet and frail and a junkie? 837 00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:26,280 I'm a big guy. 838 00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:27,360 I've been in fights. 839 00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:30,560 I've been trained in, you know, hands on type stuff. 840 00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:34,800 I could probably take him if he's 350 pounds of prison muscle, 841 00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:38,240 I might even be one of those. 842 00:40:38,240 --> 00:40:38,760 Don't shoot him. 843 00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:40,280 It just make him angry. 844 00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:43,720 Well, and you know, but again with those things is that, you know, 845 00:40:44,240 --> 00:40:47,640 you intervene and then now he's got a razor, you know, 846 00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:51,160 and even though he's a 95 pound weakling, I mean, one time 847 00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:55,280 I took a prisoner off of a cop sheet, arrested him for drunk driving, 848 00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:58,840 and he was he was handcuffed and in the back seat of her police car. 849 00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:02,160 And so we I was going to transporting to jail 850 00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:05,080 because she was working a drunk driver enforcement checkpoint. 851 00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:09,840 And so I got him out of the car and I put my handcuffs on him 852 00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:13,720 because you put your cuffs on first, then you take the other handcuffs off right. 853 00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:15,680 And so then I patted him down. 854 00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:19,000 And I remember she she had a reputation for being incompetent. 855 00:41:19,240 --> 00:41:22,520 And, I'm not saying all women are incompetent, but she just happened to be. 856 00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:23,040 She was. 857 00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:24,600 It was incompetent. Yeah. 858 00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:26,840 And so she's holding her report. 859 00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:27,440 She looked at me. 860 00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:28,920 She said, well, why are you searching him? 861 00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:30,680 Because I already searched him. 862 00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:32,640 And I said, well, I always search prisoners again. 863 00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:33,920 If I'm going to transport. 864 00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:36,960 And I found a little raven 865 00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:39,960 25, automatic in his back rear pocket. 866 00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:43,440 And I remember there were 4 or 5 guys around like this watching, and 867 00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:45,840 I reached in. I as soon as I tapped that, I knew what it was. 868 00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:47,840 I reached him with two fingers and pulled it out, 869 00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:50,480 and it was nickel plated and it was nighttime. 870 00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:53,520 So it was shining and everyone's put their flashlights on it. 871 00:41:53,880 --> 00:41:56,920 And I said, this is why I search everybody. 872 00:41:57,000 --> 00:42:00,000 And she went, well, I guess I missed it. 873 00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:03,240 It's like, yeah, no she did. Yeah. So, 874 00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:06,360 so yeah, I reported that I'm sorry. 875 00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:09,120 You don't let that go, you know. Exactly. 876 00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:10,760 And everyone after 877 00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:14,440 she walked over to her, jumped off, they looked at me and they all said, well. 878 00:42:14,720 --> 00:42:17,720 And I said, yes, I'm going to tell her, Sergeant. 879 00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:18,920 Yeah. You know. 880 00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:20,520 So, Well. Right. 881 00:42:20,520 --> 00:42:25,080 I just looked down at the, clock and we've been going over our allotted time. 882 00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:27,360 Yeah, I knew this would be a good discussion, 883 00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:29,600 but I feel like we've only scratched the surface. 884 00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:32,880 So, if folks want to leave a comment on YouTube 885 00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:37,560 or drop me a line at editor at, guns podcast, dot us. 886 00:42:38,440 --> 00:42:41,440 I bet we probably, answered some questions, 887 00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:42,720 and I bet we raised a bunch more. 888 00:42:42,720 --> 00:42:47,000 So we'll probably need to do part two of this, or part three, 4 or 5. 889 00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:51,440 But, I think if I had to summarize, as Roy said, get training, 890 00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:56,000 be aware of your surroundings, play the what if game and, 891 00:42:56,440 --> 00:43:00,200 just assume that because you bought a gun and you strapped it on your hip, 892 00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:04,240 that you are the gunfighter from hell, and you can handle any circumstance 893 00:43:04,240 --> 00:43:05,560 that thrown your way. 894 00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:08,200 That's a recipe for failure. 895 00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:11,200 And if you fail in a in an armed confrontation. 896 00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:14,280 Well, I hope I don't have to work that out for you. 897 00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:16,800 So anyway, any final thoughts, Roy, for. 898 00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:18,280 We knocked this thing off. 899 00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:21,280 No, I mean, if you comment, remember, 900 00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:25,520 listen to the whole podcast as we never once. 901 00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:26,880 What? 902 00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:29,000 Don't defend yourself. Exactly. 903 00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:32,000 Never once said that. So. Yep. Okay. Yeah. 904 00:43:32,520 --> 00:43:35,200 Well, I think people and not to start the discussion again, 905 00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:40,920 but sometimes people get offended when you hear people like us say, well, 906 00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:42,840 they just think the cops in the military, the don't. 907 00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:44,280 No, not at all. 908 00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:48,440 I freely admit there's, a lot of quote unquote private citizens 909 00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:51,920 who are hell, not better shot than the majority of cops. 910 00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:55,200 But it's not just about shooting skill. 911 00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:56,320 It's very important. 912 00:43:56,320 --> 00:44:00,920 But as Roy said, you got to, you know, know how to shoot, communicate, 913 00:44:00,920 --> 00:44:05,280 move, cover and say all that stuff and the legal side of it, too. 914 00:44:05,280 --> 00:44:09,600 So just because you have a firearm doesn't make you the gunfighter from hell. 915 00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:13,760 So anyway, Roy, thanks again for joining us. 916 00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:17,040 And here's a quick word from our great sponsor, Ruger. 917 00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:20,600 Whether you're on the range in the field or protecting your home, 918 00:44:20,720 --> 00:44:23,720 Ruger delivers durability and performance you can count on. 919 00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:25,080 Discover the full lineup, 920 00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:28,680 explore new releases, and see why Ruger continues to set the standard. 921 00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:31,880 Visit Ruger Icon today. 922 00:44:33,560 --> 00:44:35,920 Well, thanks for joining us here on this episode of the Guns 923 00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:40,040 Podcast U.S, brought to you by guns magazine and sponsored by Ruger. 924 00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:43,920 Make sure you stop by guns magazine.com, go to the podcast tab. 925 00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:46,120 And we've also got email newsletter. 926 00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:50,920 So sign up if you haven't and you can get gets 927 00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:54,120 good stuff delivered to your inbox every day. 928 00:44:54,120 --> 00:44:57,240 Also you might check out guns podcast dot U.S 929 00:44:57,960 --> 00:45:00,360 we've got links to the show and we got merch too. 930 00:45:00,360 --> 00:45:02,680 So Christmas is coming up. 931 00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:06,240 Pick up your merch from your what I hope is your favorite podcast. 932 00:45:06,240 --> 00:45:09,440 So on behalf of Roy Huntington, of course I am Brent Wheat, 933 00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:12,960 the host of guns podcast Dot U.S, reminding you yet again. 934 00:45:13,240 --> 00:45:15,040 Now get out there and get shooting.