Well, Mr.

Douglas, very good of you to join us.

Please tell me, is the is the devil still pursuing you?

Now, perhaps you could explain to me what you mean by the devil.

You seem to be on terms with him.

Well, permit me, Mr.

Douglas, to tell you something of the devil, that I've come to know him.

The devil is that element in human nature that impels us to destroy and base.

And what are you about upon this island but destruction and debasement?

Oh, well, I can tell you very plainly.

No, please don't do that.

For 17 years I have been striving to create a some measurable refinement in the human species, you see, And it is here on this very island that I see have found the very essence of the devil.

What do you mean?

I have seen the devil in my microscope and I have chained him.

And I suppose you could say in a sense, metaphorically speaking, I've cut him to pieces.

The Devil, Mr.

Douglas, I have found, is nothing more than ever a tiresome collection of genes, and it is with great assurance that I can tell you that Lucifer some of the morning is no more.

I don't see how any of this specious nonsense justifies these monstrous disfigurements, but very simply they represent a stage in the process, the eradication of destructive elements found in the human psyche.

And I have almost achieved perfection, you see, of a divine creature that is pure, harmonious, absolutely incapable of malice.

And if in my tinkering I have fallen short the human form like the odd snout claws, it really is of no great import.

I am closer than you could possibly imagine, Sir.

Hermione remake of Matthew Fonz layer kicker Coen brothers send up with Timothy Chalamet citizen came prequel a Midnight cowboy sequel.

Alvin and the chip monsters of another squeak.

There's so many new ways to revisit sideways photographic novel as how we choose to update, but we still hold fast.

You can't change the past on the Ruined Childhoods podcast.

On our last film, beginning with The Letter I, we talked at length about the 2002 mystery thriller Insomnia.

This remake of a 1997 Norwegian film was directed by Christopher Nolan and stars Al Pacino as a seasoned Los Angeles detective brought to Alaska to investigate the murder of a woman while navigating a complicated internal affairs investigation that puts him at odds with his partner.

Insomnia also stars Robin Williams as Walter Finch in one of his most famous early 2000s against type roles.

Playing a shifty murderer but funny man, Robin Williams actually established himself as a serious actor very early in his career.

In his second film, Robin played TS Garp in the 1982 drama of the World.

According to Garp, he famously played prep school teacher John Keating in 1989's Dead Poet Society, and in 1988 he performed the role of Estragon on stage at Lincoln Center opposite another famously wild and crazy guy, comedian, actor, writer Steve Martin.

As discussed on the last episode of Ruined Childhood, Steve Martin got his start as a magician and program peddler at Knott's Berry Farm and Disneyland in the late 1950s before breaking through as a stadium filling stand up comic and successful film actor and writer.

And despite being a highly public figure, Steve Martin's social life was seldom the focus of his stardom.

Though he is now married to though he is now married to his New Yorker, fact checker and Stringfield.

Martin was once married to actress Victoria Tennant and has been romantically linked with impressive women like Bernadette Peters, Anne Hache, Mary Tyler Moore, Karen Carpenter, and Mitzi Trumbo.

Daughter of famously blacklisted screenwriter Dalton Trumbo, Steven Mitzi dated during his early days in stand up comedy while he was barely in his 20s.

However, his relationship with Mitzi was allegedly cut short when she left Steve for Hollywood director John Frankenheimer.

It was around this time, in the early 60s, that Frankenheimer released some of his first films, such as All Fall Down, Birdman of Alcatraz, and The Manchurian Candidate.

Frankenheimer was a favorite among certain A list actors in the 1960s, having worked at the likes of Burt Lancaster, Rock Hudson, Warren Beatty, Kirk Douglas, and Omar Sharif.

Frankenheimer would also direct Hollywood superstars like Robert De Niro and Ronan, Ben Affleck and Charlize Theron and Reindeer Games, Robert Shaw and Bruce Dern in Black Sunday, and Val Kilmer and Marlon Brando in this week's film Greeting Starfighters.

This is ruined childhoods.

I'm John and so excited to talk to my brother Dan about the 1996 clusterfuck The Island of Doctor Moreau and HG Wells adaptation about a castaway who ends up on an island populated by the living experiments of a deranged Doctor Dan.

Throughout this intro, I named three actors that were honored by me and my film school roommates when I was a sophomore at Temple University by receiving naming rights to three of our living rooms seating options.

Can you name all three actors who had chairs and sofas named after them?

They are all actors that I mentioned in this intro.

Oh.

OK, all right, give me.

OK, I'm I'm just, I'm going to start with was 1 Robin Williams.

No.

OK, no, just 'cause like you mentioned and like I'll say and leave it here, you said mentioned Robin Williams.

I was like, God damn, Robin Williams would have been an amazing Doctor Moreau, but yeah, yeah.

So all right, so not all right.

OK, so all right, I'm trying to remember the names of the actors.

OK, you know what we're talking about a domicile.

I'm going to guess Victoria Tennant.

No, but that's funny.

Oh, for two, I'll tell you what.

Oh, for two, but one for one with the zingers, OK.

There's there's nothing like quippy or like.

Me about it, yeah, I know I'm I'm I like I I it feels like it's so like if Robin Williams isn't one of them then I feel like it's it's gonna be so random that like I am I'm.

Just gonna think, think about like, film school douche bags, yeah.

Yeah, but I'm like, did you name anyone that?

I mean Val.

Kilmer No.

All right, then it was De Niro, Pacino and Brando.

Those.

Are those of our seats?

Oh geez.

Oh yeah, yeah.

You know what?

I I guess like.

We're talk.

This is a very, very long time ago.

But I also, I think about you at that time and I don't necessarily think of you as like a that.

Wasn't the one that did the naming, but I'll I'll.

I'm going to let you guess which seat was my favorite Brando No no De Niro.

De Niro, that was going to be my other guest.

I I ruled out but.

I was a big taxi driver guy.

Yeah.

I so I I had a fondness for De Niro and I wasn't like a big Brando guy and I wasn't a big Pacino guy, especially at the time.

So, so all right, So John, John went to film school, I went to acting school.

And so therefore a very similar mentality, in fact more so because I remember watching films with Pacino, De Niro and Brando on VHS in in the the dorm room of one of my friends at the time, Dave Kelly, screenwriter of 2018's Robin Hood.

Oh, OK.

And no, he had like this amazing, like VHS cabinet and he had like all, like I saw so many movies for the first time with him and Bill Ellsman, Chris Kahn, Jeremy Corbyn.

Yeah, Bill and Chris, by the way.

I mean, Jeremy, I, I haven't, you know, I don't know what he's been up to, but you know, Bill and Chris working like steadily.

So anyway, so shout out to those guys 'cause we watched a ton of movies together.

Like I think I remember watching on the Waterfront.

I remember like.

I haven't watched On the Waterfront in a really long time.

Yeah, especially after watching Island of Doctor Moreau.

I do want to go back and check out like the Brando movies.

That's the reason why we.

Streetcar.

Love Marlon Brando?

Like Streetcar Named Desire, like I remember I also used to love, like I used to eat that shit up.

Like I'd tape it off TCM, like if if one of those movies was on because it was all about like getting to know and you know, we'll talk about an other, you know, similar legend and whose filmography I was able to devour a little more quickly on an an upcoming episode.

OK.

But similarly, just like getting into like, who are all these actors?

And I remember at that time the bias was a bit against Pacino.

I'd I feel like the Pacino, the Pacino appreciation was there for the the first two Godfather films and, and we're talking like circa 95 S like Donnie Brasco would be added to that list because I love his performance in that.

And it's very understated, but like Glengarry Glen Ross and in terms of like the flamboyant Pacino performances, Dick Tracy, which we've talked about.

But like I was like, I hated the fact that Al Pacino won best actor for Scent of a Woman.

I like, I hated that he beat like the actual best performance of that year, Denzel Washington in Malcolm X or like my kind of sentimental favorite, which was Steven Ray in the Crying Game.

So, and like, I'm trying to think who else was not like Clint Eastwood and Unforgiven, but so but like Pacino and and I just, it felt like that performance especially was like, what is this injustice that like this year you're deciding we're not going to give the award to someone who deserves it for the performance they gave in this year, but we're going to give it to him because hey, he's doing great.

He's doing great.

He's been doing great.

You know, he's been having fun.

We like him.

Let's give Val and Oscar.

And he deserved it for so many other films because you, you go back, you watch, you know, the, I mean Serpico, the, you know.

Right.

Well, also we've talked before about how you know, awards are.

Well, they're they're so right, right, right.

Yes, no, no, no that, but also when I was.

A political thing?

It's yeah.

But at that age, when I was like 15 or 16, I was really passionate about this shit.

But anyway, the tangent is studied especially like Dave loved Scorsese and that's like, this was how I, like I had seen Scorsese's films.

I was aware of Scorsese.

I owned a copy of the Goodfellas screenplay that I bought off some like a table in the West Village, like, but I really, we watched Taxi Driver and then in college a few years later, I played John Hinckley in a production of Assassins.

And I watched Taxi Driver several times because I was in John Hinckley, because that's what Robert De Niro would have done.

But yeah, and I watched like also a ton of Jodie Foster movies.

I hadn't.

Seen.

Well, that's what John Hinckley would have done.

Yes, yes.

Yeah, yeah.

Oh, no.

But me, yeah.

As the actor, right?

Yeah.

It was like, I got a method.

It was so pretendious.

But like, also like he's, you know, it's like naming the furniture.

De Niro, Pacino and Brando.

So, and honestly, it's like we weren't really, it wasn't like a pretentious thing.

It was mostly just being goofballs.

Well, yeah.

And you also, you're not naming them after film makers.

It's not like you're like, you know, oh, you know, take off your shoes before you sit on Kurosawa.

Right.

Yeah, I think that for me, though, De Niro was a favorite because he was a little bit more nuanced, at least from like the the exposure that I had to the films of these guys where it's like Pacino to me was too, it was too much.

And now I I see him in a different way.

And this was actually right when like Insomnia was coming out.

And so like, maybe had I seen Insomnia in the theaters, I would have been like, oh, you know what?

I actually really love that performance.

Yeah.

And maybe I want to sit down on on Pacino a little bit, but Brando was one that like, never really struck for me.

I've never been a big Godfather fan.

And I feel like I think for so many people that's that's like a big thing.

And you're not a mob movie guy, generally.

I'm not a mob movie guy, no.

Do you like?

Any mob movies are we like?

Just just, I, I always try to give them more chances and I understand why people like Goodfellas, but it's just like, and I can appreciate a lot of the, the artistic prowess that it has.

And like, you know, that that big one or shot when they're going to the Copacabana, like that's an amazing shot.

And I, I get that.

And Ray Liotta is really fantastic plastic.

And I, you know, I understand why people are, are drawn to movies like Goodfellas, but it just doesn't do anything for me.

Is there any like in the in the Venn diagram?

And then I'll I'll, I'll let it go.

I want to know like what's the closest thing?

Is it like a Coen brothers?

Is it like Miller's Crossing, Dan?

You you already know the answer to this question.

The closest, the best.

My favorite mob movie is My Blue Heaven.

My OK, all right, excellent, great income.

I no surprise.

And and I'll be honest, John, like we did kind of come full circle because you're right, that's what I was.

I was going to say, but you know, I'm curious and I don't know that we've necessarily gone and it is a spiritual.

Cousin to to Goodfellas.

Ohh absolutely yeah.

Ohh.

So anyway, John Frankenheimer, I guess, what would be the closest thing he did?

He he, I wonder, like, what's the close?

I mean, he worked with De Niro of course in in Ronan, which is a great movie.

Yeah, he's good.

You've.

Seen Ronan?

Yeah, yeah.

Ronan's like.

When it was first on video.

It's a fun.

It's a fun like background movie because of all the because just like it's fun for the car chases and you hear like, you know, all the the tough guy preening and like you know De Niro and like Sean Bean is is in it.

Yeah, well, it's, you know, this is when De Niro is entering or he's like entered his like I'm an older guy now.

I mean, now he's he's in his I'm an old guy, right era, but like I'm an older guy and I'm like in an action movie, it's kind of like a, you know, like the equalizer or nobody where it's like, you know, or even like a John Wick where it's just like, all right, I'm a little past my prime, but I'm still doing all this stuff.

He's there to have a little fun.

Yeah.

I imagine he's, he's, you know, good spirited about it.

Which Sure, yeah.

And and of course we do have the the score, the De Niro Brando, you know, Brando's last on screen appearance in the the score, which I wanna say is 2001.

That's right.

Which which was Edward, Edward Norton, kind of like, you know, the three generations of these like, you know, method actors.

Right.

Oh yeah.

Big time.

Yeah, Ed Norton, De Niro and and Brando.

And I remember, I remember that was fun, like Brando's appearance and that was fun and.

Yeah, Brando.

And I know that we were talking, we're, we're steering things more to John Frankenheimer, but like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

There's those like kind of latter day Brando movies that are that can be very hit or miss.

And I know that freshman, the freshman's fun.

There's that giant lizard in it.

Everybody loves that.

Haven't seen it in a long time, but you know Bruno Kirby, Matthew Broderick.

Yeah, no.

Really fun.

I mean, Don Juan DeMarco I is a much lesser, but it's like in a while.

Yeah, it's not good, but it's, you know, it's it's just the IT much like the island of Doctor, Doctor Moreau.

It's like, let's bring in this this big name guy.

Yeah.

And, you know, get some attention that way.

Well, and that and again, New Line Cinema and, you know, and as we as we get into the island of Doctor Moreau, I feel like there's two separate conversations to be had.

And like, you know, there's a conversation about the this specific production and then a conversation about the actual, like, story because this is not the the we are talking about the 1996 film.

But there were other films.

In fact, like, it's interesting you talked about Insomnia being a remake of an of an did you say 1977 or 1990?

Seven, 1999.

OK, nevermind.

Because I was like, oh.

Because the because.

Yeah.

The previous island of Doctor Moreau was 1977.

And with Burt Lancaster and Michael York.

Michael York.

Thank you.

So.

But there have been other exposition.

Yes, yes, yeah.

Oh, it's it's great.

I use that whenever I show the the old 1960s Romeo and Juliet in my freshman English class.

Oh, yeah.

Tibble, right.

Yeah, when he when he comes on his tibble, I'll be like, who knows Austin Powers?

All right, see it's Basil Exposition.

Yeah.

Yeah and there's like 3 kids that know it but.

I know I and I, I, I fear that that number will be dwindling more and more, but this is not the last that we're going to talk about Austin Powers on this episode.

Anyway, Oh my God, yes.

So hey, New Line Cinema, the so but so there's two separate conversations we had because there's this production and this specific film.

So like, you know, this specific take on it.

And then I think there's and then the other conversation is just in general about the story.

And I think that leads us into what where will we go?

Because on this podcast, for those who are new, welcome, welcome to our island.

You know, we kind of talk about what what should be the next Should there be a next incarnation or a take on, you know, this.

Yeah, this story, this this not not this film specifically, but you know, weird story go from HG.

Wells.

Right, right, so so I think again also.

But also you didn't mention the 1930s Island of Lost Souls, the first adaptation.

So this is a did you watch that one territory?

I did not, no.

But I did watch the 77 Island of Doctor Moreau.

How was it?

You know what, I I thought it was a lot of fun.

That's definitely very different from the the 96 island of Doctor Moreau.

Yeah.

I mean in, in a lot of different ways, but there was, you know, of course it's gonna, it starts out the exact same way.

You know, it's, it's somebody on a very tiny little rowboat marooned out in the middle of the ocean and starving and, you know, whatever.

And, and so it's like, OK, so far, one to one we've made, we've matched it and then it from then it just splits off and it's completely different.

But in that one, it's like Burt Lancaster and the Montgomery character, like they are around like the whole time.

And it's it's less of a story about, you know, an uprising and more about deception and following the letter of the law, which is that you shall not like spill blood or whatever.

And because Michael York's character who's I think a different character name in, in that in that version, but I he first of all, is injected with some sort of animal serum and is transforming into an animal and but also is in a position where he has to kill.

I've, I've don't remember if it's an animal or Montgomery or Doctor Moreau or whatever.

But like, because he has killed, he is guilty.

And so it's less of a one of us, one of us situation and more of a, you know, if you break the law, you toast.

And I know that like there, there's a lot of aspects that come up in the the 77 version that have been super influential on other pop culture.

I mean, they keep, and I don't know if specifically this is in the book, but I know that these things were because of the 1977 movie inspirational for like the band House of Pain gets their name from the Dailand of Doctor Moreau because if you break the law, then you go to the House of Pain and are we not men?

Like Devo gets that from the island of Doctor Moreau.

Oh.

Yeah.

No kidding.

Yeah.

So that's either from the that's either from from the 77 film or the the novel.

I believe that it's been on record that it's, it's because of the movie that it caught the attention and became what it became.

But timing makes sense.

I'm pretty right.

Exactly.

So it's like I'm pretty sure that those were aspects of the the novel, which was in the late 1800s, maybe in the 1890s that came out.

I don't remember the exact I'm.

I'm sorry, I lost.

I I'm looking up, you know, Yeah, The House of Pain's in the novel and in the film, so.

Yeah, but I know The House of Pain specifically got it from the film.

Are you suggesting that they are not literary enthusiasts?

No, it's just that they've gone on record saying so.

I know, I'm kidding, so I'm sorry.

What?

What were you?

Oh no.

No, no, I was just, I was just commenting about how the 1977 film was, you know, a little bit more influential than some might give it credit for.

And I think that the the drama and the trauma brought on by the 1996 film has, I kind of erased some of its predecessors from history in a little bit.

And it lives in its own infamy, even apart from the the novel where it's become this, its own, its own monster, really.

Yeah, yeah.

I mean, when you say The Island of Doctor Moreau, I think a lot of people who have not seen the movie think of the movie.

I remember it being released on VHS.

I was working there at the West Coast Video, and I remember my, you know, the assistant manager there, Don, who was really cool and fun to work with.

He would come up with these great nicknames for all of these movies.

And so we would alternate between The Island of Doctor Moron, Less clever and the island of Doctor Mario, which was a lot more, a lot more fun.

So that was fun.

Yeah.

Yeah.

We had.

Oh, God.

What were some of his other, what was my neighbor John Turturro instead of my neighbor Totoro?

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

That works.

I would love that, that take on it.

But anyway, I remember it coming out and I remember I remember it being in the theater and but I also just remember all of the bad press about it had no idea to which depth the production was troubled, which holy cow, folks.

So John and I both also watched the documentary Lost Soul, which is the the story of the I get the Richard Stanley who?

Yeah.

This movie started as his concept, his pitch, his film.

And there's so much more than just that.

Like what?

OK, I know that OK, so just to just to kind of keep things a little organized.

So this this documentary came out in 2014 and clearly a lot has happened since then for Richard Stanley.

And also, I think that just like the the legend of island of Doctor Monroe, because we in the, you know, several years ago when Val Kilmer released his documentary, Val touches upon the island of Doctor Moreau.

And there's, it's not like he's apologetic about it, but there's, I don't know if it's like revisionist history or just like, you know, consider my side of things, but there's, there's some other things that kind of go into it that aren't brought up in the in that documentary.

But what were some of your favorite takeaways from that documentary?

Because I feel like we could, we could just go point by point and talk about everything.

So please.

Tell me.

I just, I just, yeah, I want, I want.

I kind of had the same question for you.

And also I'm like, before we talk about the documentary, would it make sense to give a synopsis?

Give a synopsis, Please go ahead.

Just, just just because we'll talk about some.

I'm sure we'll talk about the casting, which, yeah, yeah.

So so a synopsis for your reference.

After the sinking of his ship, a man named Douglas is rescued by Montgomery, the caretaker of a nearby island, and brought there to live until he has an opportunity for safe passage back home.

As Douglas explores the island, he learns that it is under the control of Doctor Moreau, an expatriate scientist set on blurring the lines between what it means to be human versus what it means to be animal.

During his stay, Douglas becomes entranced by Elisa, Doctor Moreau's daughter, and earns the trust of many of the island's human animal hybrid inhabitants.

Douglas also becomes central to the imminent deconstruction of the order set by Montgomery and Doctor Moreau and the subsequent humanimal uprising.

As Doctor Moreau we have Marlon Brando.

As Montgomery, we have Val Kilmer as Douglas, we have David Thulus As Elisa, we have Faruza Balk.

And then we have Sayer of the Laws played by Ron Perlman.

And there's also there's the the character who's who's worth a mention, especially in the context of the documentary.

Yeah, Maling.

Yes.

Oh well, there's also so Nelson de La Rosa.

Nelson de La Rosa.

Gotta talk about Nelson de La Rosa there, and we will.

And yeah, Maling, played by Marco Hofschneider, who's in a film called Was Europa, Europa.

Europa.

Europa, which it is.

A excellent it's it's a hard movie to to watch.

I've never seen it.

But I wanna watch it because I feel like I he deserves some more attention.

No, yeah.

And that's why, that's why that's partially why I'm.

I'm bringing it up because yeah, yeah, he's a great.

Yeah, He's a great actor.

Oh yeah.

Also Tamora Morrison, who people might recognize as Django Fett from the Star Wars prequels.

Oh, OK.

Yes.

Oh, and you know who else?

Oh my God, I'm blanking on his name.

I'm sorry, I'm going to have to look it up, but another one of the performers in it.

As you're looking him up, can I also just I, I got to call out another because Tamara Morrison is a indigenous actor from New Zealand and is in a film that I have, I actually have not seen but called once were Warriors, which I've heard is really, you know, an excellent movie about and from that culture, I want to say the Maori culture.

So OK, and who?

And so I wanted to call.

Out the actor who played low.

My mark.

Oh, de Cascos.

De Cascos.

Yeah.

Do you remember Mark de Cascos?

In in the movie, it's kind of hard.

Because I mean, do you remember him at like what he?

I remember him as like an action.

He's like an action.

He was the guy from he was the guy from Only the Strong, Right, right, right.

Yeah, He was the guy from Only the Strong.

So you'd never recognize him in this 'cause he's a leopard man.

But sure enough, he's there.

But it's yeah, it's, it's a completely.

He also was one of the He was also one of the like direct to video crows.

Right.

Yeah.

So it's it's really an incredible cast on paper.

And and the way that and I mean, it's like Ron Perlman had a very, you know, insignificant role and he was certainly not the Ron Perlman then that we know now.

Well, you know, still kind of getting getting started.

He was, I mean, he had done the Beauty and the Beast series on TV.

He had done some of the Junaid and Cairo I think also around this time the city.

I mean, and he had also done and he was doing the like Guillermo del Toro kind of like early, early works and.

So, and it's not long after this he's in Alien Resurrection.

So, but yeah, no, he's not right.

He you know.

But I think that because of Beauty and the I think that because of Beauty and the Beast, it was just like, oh, this guy can handle wearing prosthetics for a while.

Oh, well, and also like, you know, he kind of has that he he kind of has that appearance.

It it it's a it's a natural fit.

You don't look at you're like, oh, interesting.

Ron Perlman in this.

OK, yeah, so the.

Sayer of the Law.

But yeah, so let's see.

So big takeaways from Lost Soul is that as when so the production gets out of control.

It starts as kind of a small production.

Richard Stanley, who like loves the story, loves the book and he's really passionate about the project and has like a really clear vision for it.

It's kind of bonkers.

He's also made a couple of low budget horror movies, Hardware and Dust Devil at this point.

So he's got like, you know, he's got some following and a reputation in that like niche film area where like new line, that was kind of, you know, new lines, bread and butter.

So they so so Richard Stanley gets, you know, gets this project off the ground like he originally wants like Jurgen Pronchnau.

I'm sorry I did not pronounce that correctly.

Like from Das Boot.

Yeah.

But he's not looking for this to be like a big Hollywood superstar production.

No, no, he wants to go off and and make his movie for, you know, whatever, like, you know, 8 million or I don't know if it was even that, But and and then it starts to kind of like go a little haywire.

And I'm not going to get into the casting, you know, department of it, except for that where Richard Stanley is about to he he finds out that Marlon Brando has signed on to play Doctor Moreau and that Roman Polanski is going to direct.

And Richard Stanley, it tells New Line.

He's like, look, you have to give me a meeting with Brando and you.

Like, right, because he's under the impression that he's going to be directing it and he's finding out, Oh no, there's going to be another director.

He's like, look, Brando has final say on this, and you need to give me a meeting with him.

So they're like, fine, because they're like, Brando's just going to shit all over this guy and we'll send an executive, you know, to make sure it happens.

So yeah, Richard Stanley is connected to the London witchcraft community and has a warlock friend named Skip.

That's his nickname.

Skip Featherstone.

Skip.

Featherstone so he asks Skip to help him out and he he's like I have this meeting with Marlon Brando and I need it to go well like can you do something so as he is going to this to Marlon Brando's compound compound.

Yeah that thank you.

That's a much more appropriate word with this, with this, you know, new line executive, I, I, I.

Doesn't matter what her name is.

Anyway, yeah, all apologies, but she So they go to Marlon Brando's house.

Meanwhile, Skip is in London performing this ritual.

Yeah, he's gotten his coven together.

Yeah, and they're performing this ritual while this meeting is happening.

And what happens in this meeting is they go into the house and they sit down and it's a little, it's a little warm in the house.

And, you know, the the exec is kind of, you know, Schmitz in a little bit.

So Marlon offers to turn on the air condition.

He turns the air, he turns the AC on, right.

He's a he's a gracious host.

And and she says at one point, boy, yeah, she's like, if if the AC goes any, you know, if it gets any cooler in here, I am just going to fall asleep.

Now, this sounds much more nefarious than it ends up being.

Marlon cranks up the ACA little bit.

She falls asleep and they end up having like a really frank discussion about and and Brando's, you know, loves his ideas and is really into like the Richard Stanley's ideas.

Well, if I, if I may interject, I feel like it's also important to talk a little bit more about Richard Stanley's family.

So first of all, his he was raised predominantly by his mother, who was an anthropologist.

And so he's born in South Africa and they, she kind of introduced him a lot to like the world of like, witchcraft.

And so that's how he became like, aware of people like Skip Featherstone.

So like, yeah, yeah.

His, his mother, who's like written books about, you know, you know, witchcraft and things like that.

It's like, oh, it's, it's very obvious that he's going to also latch on to that kind of thing too.

But also, Richard Stanley's great grandfather is allegedly the person who influenced Conrad to write the character.

You know of the Colonel Kurtz character?

In Heart of.

Darkness and who was who?

HG Wells accused Conrad of stealing the idea for him about Doctor Moreau.

So there's already this like Doctor Moreau, Colonel Kurtz, played by Marlon Brando and Apocalypse Now connection.

And so when Richard Stanley approached Marlon Brando by saying, like, this is kind of a continuation of the story of Colonel Kurtz, it's like a different, you know, two sides of the same coin.

Cardinal Kurtz, a character that Brando's just fascinated by still.

Yeah, that's what gets him in and then knocks him in.

And he's just like, OK, I like this guy 'cause he's speaking my language.

And, and the fact that the conversation got to this point, it probably would not have happened had the New Line exec stayed awake.

Yeah.

So you know, this meeting and that that everyone at New Line is expecting to go horribly for Stanley goes wonderfully for him and totally.

And and he's now so Richard Stanley's directing the movie.

And so they go to cast and so they go to cast Douglas.

Well, so Douglas, yeah, yeah.

So so for Douglas, cause first it was Bruce Willis.

It was Bruce Willis right as as Douglas.

So and then like came Bruce Willis's divorce from Demi Moore, right, which he According to him, prevented him from leading leaving the country.

Anyway, sorry, I want to get back to the my takeaways.

I want to stay on target here with lost soul.

So so my so that was sorry.

That was my one that like that whole he had his were lost friend Skip and then my second favorite Richard Stanley story is OK.

So Fast forward he starts making the film.

There's all these cast casting issues that we will get into later, but including.

I find it so funny that at one point Rob Morrow was involved not playing Doctor Morrow but as as Edward.

It was also like a fascinating choice on so many levels.

I like Rob Morrow but no.

But OK, so Richard Stanley gets gets fired, yes, and he kind of like, you know, he already has a reputation for being unpredictable.

And I think he they said he made some comments that maybe LED them to believe that he might try to like burn the set down sabotage the sabotage it He had become close with the local indigenous population.

He because he like you know, got came to their land and right I was gonna say because he comes to film, make a film on their land and wants their involvement and wants their and and shows their respect and is doing things, you know, and honors their traditions.

So he has them as allies and so he just he disappears.

He now he's supposed to so, so they're like they send someone to take him to the airport, right, to make, to like to, to take him to the airport and put him on a plane.

And again, the, the, the, you know, new Line HR department is getting a phone call because someone they brought him to the airport, but he was not on that plane when it landed.

Right, Yeah, in, in Los Angeles, so, or wherever it was going, but London maybe, right, because they're in, they're in Australia, yeah, So yeah.

And then months later, as they're bringing in all of these like, off the grid hippies living in like the rainforest share.

Extras, yeah.

Right.

They're bringing these and they're like, yeah, no, there's this dude who's like living out there and like he was like ranting about stuff about the.

About saying Val Kilmer ruined my life.

Val Kilmer ruined my life.

And they're like, and and a couple of the guys work who had been working on the crew, you know, and had, you know, had like a loyalty to Richard Stanley.

They kind of went off and like, found him.

And he had been living on a farm owned by a farmer who did not have the use of his legs.

That's how it's described in the film.

Yeah.

And.

And they sneak him on set.

He's just getting stoned all day.

Oh yeah, yelling about Val Kilmer.

Yeah.

Oh yeah, And they're like, it's Richard and they bring him back and he's in the movie.

OK, But something, something also important to mention is that when he was let go from the movie, they gave him the this pretty sweet deal of pay you, your, your full salary, right?

There's essentially A restraining order against you from the production.

So you have to stay, you know, further than like, you know, 40 kilometers away from the set or something like that at all times.

And so because of that, he had to be completely disguised at all times.

Nobody could know officially that he was there.

Which on this movie with all almost all of the extras wearing some type of prosthetic and or like half animal thing was not hard.

And there were enough people who like, you know, liked him and kind of felt like he got the raw end of the deal.

Yeah, So they were totally.

And The funny thing was a bulk Oh, Feruza Balk.

Well, the story about Feruza Balk, I do you.

I don't know if you were playing the story about Feruza Balk.

Basically, Feruza Balk stormed off set and like told her driver take me to Sydney, apparently not realizing that Sydney was on the other side of the continent.

Yeah, yeah.

Country, also continent.

So Richard Stanley is back on set.

He's an extra.

And like some of the stuff he has to do is like he's standing next to all of these like gasoline cans.

And they're like here, take a torch and all that.

And they're like the guy who they thought was going to burn down the set.

They basically put in a position to burn down the set.

Right.

And I guess nobody knew until like the I guess like for the most part, nobody really knew until the wrap party.

Or it's it's amazing and in he still has the mask of like the dog man that he was.

It's amazing, but so.

Anyway, I highly recommend watching this documentary because there's so much more.

What were your like major takeaways?

Well, my, my favorite moments certainly were the ones that you mentioned.

I, I mean, I love the skip Featherstone bit.

And also, it's like with anything that Richard Stanley says, I feel like I have to slap a big allegedly on it because it's like, I mean, when there are when there are things that other people can corroborate, then it's just like, OK, well, yeah, then there's that.

But like there are certain things with him.

And also like all of the weird omens that were happening right as everything was falling apart for him.

Skip Featherstone got like, you know, some sort of radiation poisoning or something.

There was APA who got like bit by some crazy spider.

There was Skip die.

Skip died, right?

Yeah.

And there was and there was like a starts happening, Yeah.

There was like a hyena incident and it's it's interesting because it's kind of like a monkey paw situation where like, you know, be careful what you wish for because it's like, yes, he got what he wanted.

He got to be the director on this movie.

But as a result, all of these incredibly awful things happened around his orbit and interesting guy Richard Stanley.

He recently directed this like HP Lovecraft adaptation with Nicholas Cage.

I watched the trailer.

It looks very low budget schlocky.

That was like 2019 and he hasn't really done anything else.

He pretty much disappeared for a while.

He recently had a an abuse allegation against him that caused the production company he worked with on that Nicolas Cage movie to sever ties with him.

And I think that he's like counter suing or something.

I don't know, It's messy.

I mean, yeah, this is not someone like, yeah, this was someone who like, you know, of course he couldn't handle a, you know, all of those personalities.

It was not surprising to me that things kind of got out out of control.

And you know, I feel can handle you feel for him.

He can handle a low budget, no name actor thing it it's he's not there to be, you know, right, Dealing with the egos of Marlon Brando and Val Kilmer.

Well, and then also you have, you know, according to this documentary, well, not just according to the documentary, but in real life, like, you know, Brando's daughter had committed suicide as he was supposed to begin filming.

So of course, like Brando was not in Brando was like already probably not in the headspace.

So he shows up on set and it's kind of like the type of thing where you know that you could do whatever you want.

So it's kind of like it's his.

It's it came across to me like he, it was his therapy almost to just kind of, you know, like when he's like Fruza Bach tells the story about, you know, she wants to talk about character and connections.

And he's like, hey, look, I'm getting paid.

You're getting paid.

Let's just.

Yeah.

And it's like things like, you know, he sees Nelson de La Rosa.

And falls in love with the the smallest man on the planet.

Right, smallest man on the planet, you know, big celebrity that in Dominican Republic and but Brando is just like I want him in every scene.

So that's where Marco Hofschneider, like a lot of his screen time and a lot of his role like kind as Moreau's like, you know, favorite goes to Nelson de La Rosa, which and that of course spawns.

We've got the South S Parks island of Doctor Mephesto.

Yeah, Mephesto and and Kevin and mini me Doctor, Speaking of Austin Powers.

Right.

Yeah, well, I mean, when I was watching Island of Doctor Moreau and I saw them with the pianos, like playing the piano with the small piano on top, I was just like, oh, Oh my God, I did not even clock.

That's where that that's where Austin Powers got that.

And it's like it wasn't even that long after Doctor Moreau came out that they did Spy Who Shagged me.

Like 3 years.

Yeah, just a few.

Well.

96 to 99 Austin, So the First off, so man, International man of mystery was 97.

Spine Shagni was 99.

Was that 99?

Wow.

Yeah.

So yeah, for it to be that quick of a turn around to like be like, that's what we're doing.

That's hilarious.

And and, and, and it's so, it's so memorable.

It's so perfect.

But then when you see it in Doctor Merrill, you're just like, Oh my God, this is amazing.

But it comes from nothing other than Marlon Brando wanting to be in scenes with this guy.

Yeah, and so, and, and allegedly it's because he basically said to Della Rosa like, you know, I can speak some Spanish and he made set some gibberish and Della Rosa just like, see, see.

And then he was just like, ah, this one I like because, you know, it's somebody who just gets going to agree with Marlon Brando no matter what.

And.

Right, right.

And it's Brando's idea to like, have him dressed to the same as him all the time and just with him at all times and.

Well, and it's Brando's.

His his sunscreen off.

Like some of Brando's ideas are actually like good, like the idea of painting himself white because he of the heat and the sun.

I'm like, especially if you're like, you know, the size of Marlon Brando at that time like that made the the ice bucket on the head, so.

Strange.

Like so strange, but it's also like, all right, I get the logic, but this was also the type of movie where no one was like no one was saying no, that they it just came to like, we need to get this fucking thing done.

Totally, absolutely.

They they were on a very tight timeline and everything was already going haywire.

And just to speak a little bit about the 77 Doctor Moreau, you know, Burt Lancaster looks like a a doctor.

You know, he looks like somebody who's like come from a background of intelligence, right?

No, not just like a weird monster maker.

Right.

No, he could have been the pediatrician.

Absolutely, yeah.

Yeah, Bertly, he's grandpa.

Yeah, but oh, so Val Kilmer who's who who was initially cast as Douglas replacing Bruce Willis, but then wants doesn't like the part and is more interested in Montgomery?

It's not no what happened and this is still allegedly, but he wanted to be working like 40% less of the time.

Like he just didn't want to be in as like as as many shooting days.

So the solution was, OK, you'll just be Montgomery, right?

Because that's, you know, 40% less shooting days.

And he also finds out like during production in he from Variety or something that.

He well, according to his documentary, he has served divorce papers on set.

Oh, OK.

All right.

Yeah, that's what he says.

We'll go with that.

And and not to give him a pass for anything, but I feel like that explains a lot of his onset behavior in addition to, you know, he's just come off of Batman Forever and, you know, one of the biggest stars out there, but also getting negative reviews.

He's in this position where he needs to, I don't know, he's like, he's going through like some psychological trauma that's all like compounding on each other, like his personal life and his and his his work, all of his critical, I guess, downfalls where he's like, you know, he went to Juilliard.

He was he was supposed to be like a serious actor.

And then like his world is just kind of crumbling around him.

And so of course, he's playing all of these games.

And the the view that he gives in his documentary from Doctor Moreau is a more rosy one from his perspective.

You know, he always had a video camera on him.

He was recording everything.

So, you know, he shows this moment where, you know, Brandos on that like hammock on the on the set and Brandon like give me a big swing, like give me like swing me or whatever.

And so it's a very playful relationship according to his version of things, which as we can see from like everybody else who is there, it's like, that's not what it was like.

And, and also like we, we, we hear from others that there were these standoffs between the two of them of like, I won't leave my trailer until Brandon comes out and Brandon's like, I don't leave my trailer until Kilmer comes out of his.

And so.

And, and by the way, like, I mean, like, especially considering the personalities involved, especially considering the circumstances surrounding them, I have absolutely no trouble believing that all of the above is true.

Yeah.

And that they had moments where they, because the two of them, they I mean, it doesn't I, I wouldn't be shocked if either of them was laughing, joking, playing one minute and like, pissed off the next.

So like that's totally on brand for both of them on Brando, Yeah.

Oh.

OK, yeah, I couldn't resist it.

You.

Could have, but that's OK.

Kilmer now, yeah, anyway, so any, so I have no trouble I've I you know, yeah.

And I haven't seen the Val Kilmer documentary, but I that's a valuable perspective and it's important to see that and to know that like, no, they weren't always throwing tantrums.

Like, yeah, I'm sure that the trailer incident happened because it's been corroborated time and time again.

Yeah.

But I I I also have no trouble believing that they were genuinely having fun in the hammock.

Sure, right.

And yeah, and and that was probably what they needed.

Yeah, and I also feel like Kilmer, in his documentary is trying to paint things in a more negative way against Brando.

Like he's focusing on things like how, you know, everybody is thinking that Brando's on set, but it's actually like his stand in just like caked in all of like the white makeup and everything.

This guy, this guy Norm.

And, you know, there's like afternoon everybody.

Yeah.

Yeah, exactly.

And and he's also, of course, throwing stones at Frankenheimer, who, granted, did not have any reverence for this project at all.

For him, it was a job.

He was certainly on a a major career downturn at this point.

And so I think that the the line from Kilmer was John Frankenheimer can say action and cut all day long.

It doesn't make him a director, right.

And yeah.

I also remember the story about Val Kilmer when Richard Stanley was directing and he like actually like stepped out to give direction and Val Kilmer was like, no, you see the actors stand in front of the camera, the director stands behind it, which I have no trouble believing that either.

Yeah, yeah.

And but one thing that we didn't talk about at all is like, like David Thulis, who thank God for him because he makes this movie watchable.

Yeah.

David so good.

We love David Thulis, we love David Thulis.

And this is still, you know, I mean super early in his career.

He's done mostly like British, like Mike Lee naked.

Yeah, which was I think 93.

Right.

Yeah.

And you know, this is of course, before The Big Lebowski, where where we'd all enjoy, enjoy.

David Knox Harrington, the video artist.

Yeah, Knox Harrington and then and then of course, like the Harry Potter movies and stuff and David Thulus and then the Fargo TV series.

He's so good.

And so, oh, Speaking of that, I know that Noah Hawley is behind the new Alien DVD series.

And so I'm just like, oh, if Noah Hawley's behind it, I have to watch it.

I've watched the first episode I I have not.

Is it?

Is it Noah Hawley?

Does it fit with the Noah Hawley vibe?

TBD I've only watched the first episode.

Fair.

Enough.

Fair enough.

Yeah, yeah.

And it's, and it's something a little, you know, it is something a little different.

And sure, I, I think I, I will say I, I think there's probably a little more like property control on.

God.

And so got it, Got it, got it.

Yes, OK.

OK.

But yeah, David Feliz, who comes on board after Rob Morrow.

Right.

And I can see, I mean, I'm sure that Rob Morrow would have been great.

We loved him in Quiz Show.

We talked about him on that episode, you know, certainly had his his moment of northern exposure.

But like to be a marooned on a boat, You know, I guy like I believe David Thulus more like this.

He's scraggly.

I feel like Rob Morrow, like I have a hard time imagining him scraggly.

Right.

Yeah, right.

But I.

Have a hard time imagining him malnourished from being out at sea.

Yeah, and even like Michael York pulled that off in the 77, like I that kind of worked for me.

But yeah, Rob Morrow, I don't know, I I'm surprised that that that he even became part of the conversation.

And it would have been interesting to see how Bruce Willis would have been in that role.

But like, yeah, you know, this is pretty 6th sense.

I could see right, right.

It will is mid mid career and you know where Bruce Willis is is looking to get away from action.

I've been listening to the audio book of this book, Last Action Heroes, which is basically it it which is it's.

It's a fun popcorn read.

OK, so as a an avid listener of the Action Boys podcast, which I highly recommend, I they, they, they talked about that book and they said that there's a lot of errors in it.

Oh yeah.

And they found out that the guy who wrote it like subscribed to their Patreon and stuff.

And so, and they're just like, yeah, he definitely listened to us.

And then, I don't know, made some wrong, entered some wrong things into the book.

So take that book with a grain of salt.

Ohh yeah it whatever.

It's fun, sure.

I mostly love the Seagal shit talk.

It's.

Ohh, well I mean you could find that anywhere.

Yeah, I know.

But anyway.

So, but also for for Bruce Willis I because 12 Monkeys was was that 95?

Actually, no, it was early 12 Monkeys comes out like late 90s, early 96, early 96.

It might have had like a like qualifying, although I don't think it I think it was eligible for the for the following year's Oscars.

Even I.

Got it.

OK.

Yeah.

Well, be that as it may, it it predated.

I remember seeing it on January 90.

6 but it would have tracked with like the type of films that Bruce Willis was going for at that time, you know the you know, ethereal, there's some sort of weird science fictiony thing going on.

Stepping aside from like a more traditional action role that he had done, you know at that .3 times already with Die Hard and.

And all of the other copycats.

And Hawk and striking distance and yeah, all the other things that he's been doing.

So it makes sense that he would have been attracted to this and.

It's post Pulp Fiction.

Right.

But also it's understandable that, you know, going through personal issues, he'd want to be maybe close to his family and not in Australia for an indeterminate amount of time, Although at that point, nobody would have known, You know, he could have gotten swept away in a hurricane for all he knew.

And David Thulus works really well for me.

I think that he's really fun to watch.

He makes the movie enjoyable because.

He's like Richard Stanley wanted in the 1st place or wasn't he one of like?

You know, I don't, I don't know, but it wouldn't surprise me.

But like, I feel like you need a like somebody like David Thulus with a Val Kilmer and a Marlon Brando, somebody who isn't like as big of a name, but somebody who's like bringing like.

Like actually trying to act.

He's centering.

He really anchors, Yeah.

What there is to anchor?

Yeah, And I feel like between him and Faruza Balk, like there's people in there who are like really trying and making the movie watchable.

And this is a movie and I we're already coming up on an hour talking about this.

But like the movie itself, it's, it's watchable because of all of the drama behind it.

And it's, it's a, it's the type of movie where it's like, I could watch this movie again almost any time because I'm going to be looking out for all of the weirdness behind the scenes coming through and like trying to see like, OK, that's probably something that like Richard Stanley was involved with versus like that's something that Frankenheimer was involved with.

And I and, and just like looking out for like knowing all of the weirdness that like Val Kilmer was bringing to it, like making weird decisions that like don't make any sense.

But it's like they're so far behind schedule that nobody can say no, right?

Or it's like they finally got him out of his trailer and so not going to tell him to not do what he's doing.

Gotta do something here.

John Frankenheimer famous line.

I wouldn't direct the Val Kilmer or something like Val.

I wouldn't cast the OR what?

What was it?

If if I was directing the Val Kilmer story, I wouldn't even cast that prick.

Yes, there we go.

Thank you.

Not that, not that John Frankenheimer's behavior was exemplary, nor I mean, no, you wouldn't expect it to be.

I mean, here's this guy who was, you know, cranking out these classics in the 60s.

Totally seconds.

We love seconds, right?

What do you do?

Like has share some DNA with Islander Doctor Moreau.

It's experimental science.

Oh.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But that it wasn't.

And we love that.

He was known more for the like, you know, type Manchurian candidate, the train.

Right.

And all like all yeah, all of his like Burt Lancaster movies, coincidentally with Burt Lancaster being Doctor Moreau and the other version.

But like, yeah.

But he was like, you know, he was part of that breed of director that was the, you know, shouty and, you know, like, I'm gonna, you know, just berate you until you give me the performance I want, you know, see.

Also, William Friedkin, who I love, comes.

From a different different schools.

Such a bully.

Yeah, a bully type of film maker and and especially when he's not making a project that he's particularly passionate about.

Right.

When he basically like New Line asks him to do it and he's like, I'm just going to ask for like a ton of money and a three picture deal and he's like, I don't want to do this and I'm assuming they won't give this to me and then they give it to him so.

Yeah, yeah, totally.

They were desperate.

They were desperate.

They needed something to happen.

So yeah, I don't know anything else about about this specific production.

Well, Dan, I want to know like, what were something because I I talked about some things that I actually liked about the movie.

You know, David Thule is being one of them.

Like, what were some things that maybe you actually liked about this movie that that have nothing to do with like the production?

Things that I actually liked about this movie other than the presence of David Thulus.

Yeah.

Like, I didn't even need him to work hard.

I just kind of needed him to be there like, yeah, I mean, jeez, the effects and the makeup, like the, the, the.

Stan Winston Studios.

Oh my.

Absolutely.

It looked gorgeous, like the the cinematography is great, the the prosthetics and makeup, they're really.

They're eerie, they're creepy.

Like there were.

I mean, I remember like I've tried to watch this movie before and I was like, I don't know, like those body horror.

I'm can't.

Can't take lady.

Yeah, yeah.

Oh, she's funny on the documentary too.

She's really funny.

Yeah.

What else did I like about it?

You know, it's like there are moments where there were, there are moments where I'm just able to sit there and be like, yeah, you know what?

I I'm gonna have a couple of minutes of fun watching Val Kilmer.

Yeah.

Do weird shit.

Like do weird, like Marlon Brando impersonations.

I'm gonna, I'm gonna have a, you know, just enjoy Marlon.

And hey, it's Marlon Brando.

And yeah, like, you know, the the legend, you know who, who, you know, kind of has earned the right maybe to, to just, I mean, you know, not necessarily to like, take over production and mess with people's lives and careers.

But you know, who's kind of like, hey, you know what?

I don't need Marlon Brando to give me on the waterfront at this stage in the game.

Like, oh, Marlon Brando with an ice bucket on his head, OK.

Well, and there's the thing that he talked about on the on the documentary where like, he had this idea where he wanted to like, take time off and do like all these rewrites and make it so that, like, Moreau's always wearing a hat.

And at the end of the movie he takes the hat off and he has like a dolphin.

Oh yes.

So like, yeah, Brando, I mean, look, he's he, he ended up being not what we were promised at the beginning of his career.

He ended up being somebody who stopped caring about the craft.

And it's just like, you know, after his work with Coppola, basically we got it was diminishing returns.

And so we, we get what we get with him.

And also understanding that he's going through a very emotional time with the loss of his daughter right before production.

And so you know, you, you enjoy his his performance of Doctor Moreau for what it is and the spectacle of it all.

And right.

And so kind of so the the comparison I'll I'll make here, pro wrestling fans, it's kind of like if you're watching a Ric Flair match in, you know, the the later days of his career where but you're watching it and you're like, yeah, he's not moving the way he used to.

He's not, you know, he he is not performing at that level.

But you're still looking for shades of it.

You're looking for hints of it.

You're looking for just that little twitch of Stanley Kowalski coming out, maybe not in Doctor Moreau, but right.

Or just that, like even that, that bit of Kurtz, which right, like, and and so you're looking for that, that spark in there.

And it's kind of like what you could see even in, you know, Ric Flair's WrestleMania retirement match.

I know he wrestled some matches after that, but I haven't seen any but his match against Shawn Michaels, you know, and Sean Michael says I love you and then super kicks him.

Okay, I love you, I'm sorry, Super kicks him and then pins him for the 123.

But even in that match, you saw there were the shades, there was like what the Ric Flair always did and there was something of him in that.

And I'm and maybe the ratio for Ric Flair in that match was higher than the ratio for Marlon Brando in the Island of Doctor Moreau.

But that's.

So to answer the the answer to your question is I guess like, yeah, I guess I could find the moments of that in in the movie.

But otherwise, yeah.

Otherwise tech like, you know, the people who worked on it.

Bravo.

Like, I applaud every single crew member, you know, Hey.

They worked their asses off the all of the, the extras, all of the other, you know, minor characters like they, they gave it their all and they were working against all the odds.

And so, you know, congratulations to them.

Yeah.

Oh.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

So, Dan, all right, here's the big question.

What would you do with Island of Doctor Moreau?

Okay, so all right, first of all, let's talk about I think what is the obvious evolution of, of Doctor Murrow's vision and the true realization of it, A series that that already exists on PBS kids, Daniel Tiger's neighborhood, in which human animals, eggs coexist with humans.

And it's it is the ultimate vision.

There's no violence and it's Murrow's dream come to pass.

Is this utopia that we know of as Daniel Tiger's neighborhood, Right, right.

So, you know, you could look at the, you know, King Friday as almost the, you know, the, the the heir to, to Doctor Murrow's throne.

Yeah, I mean, he's human.

I mean a puppet.

But, well, I guess in Daniel Tiger's neighborhood, it's cartoon.

So he is, you know, a human in a world of human animals.

Got it.

OK.

Well, yeah, Daniel Tiger's not human, no.

No, no, no.

I was talking about the king.

Oh, the King.

Yes, yes, yes.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

All right, so.

So there's that.

I SO11 thought, I think when I started watching the movie was about the, the, you know, a musical, something that would evoke cats, not a perhaps not a musical film.

But then I watched Lost Souls and I was like, well, that would even make a better musical or like an opera.

Like Richard Stanley as a character in a musical is amazing.

I'm like, you could get so creative with the casting.

Have the actor that's playing Rob Morrow then double as David Thulus.

There's a lot.

There's a lot.

And I've never, I have yet to see like Bruce or I don't know what the current title is of the, the the musical about the making of Jaws.

It was Bruce when it when it played in in when it was in Seattle.

But I so that would have been I, I think that would, that would actually be really fun.

I think if you're going to remake this now, of course, like, you know, this is from a novel, from an 1896 novel.

So these things are always ripe for re adaptation, especially as we have like, you know, similar ethical questions arising, I would say.

And I don't know if this is something that Studio G Ghibli would actually do, but I would love to see their that take on this story.

Well, I mean Spirited Away contains, you know, that transformation.

I mean, I think I see that.

I think that's why I'm I'm yeah, that might be like, it's kind of already in the brain.

I was thinking, I was like, I would love to see an animated take on this tale, but I feel like that's the style I would want to see it.

So yes, that's, I think that that is, that's pretty much what I those are, those are my ideas.

OK, fair enough.

What do you want to do?

Well, I feel like we, we've finally found the, the movie that has ruined its, you know, the reputation of the source material.

You know, we have this iconic HG Wells movie and of course the HG Wells book.

And of course, there are plenty of other HG Wells properties that that have been adapted and have remained, you know, you know, still in high regard.

But I feel like the the legend of the 1996 Island of Doctor Moreau has perhaps surpassed the HG Wells novel in infamy and and it's kind of sullied the the good work from HG Wells in the late 1800s.

And so I don't know, I don't think that there is a way to revisit that source material and do something new because the mark that's been left by the 96 Island of Doctor Moreau, it it casts a very, very large shadow, that's for sure.

And so I, I do feel like this is the one movie that's like ruined childhoods.

It has effectively, like, destroyed the reputation of its source material.

Like, certainly as time goes on, there's gonna, it's gonna be remembered more for this movie than for the actual original novel, you know?

Am I wrong?

I, I, I don't, I don't know.

I, I, I.

Yeah, it certainly.

But there's an argument.

Makes a Oh, definitely.

Oh yeah.

Oh, I mean and.

Yeah, I would like, I wouldn't say this about so many other, you know, movies that have come out that have been adaptations where it's just like, well, yeah, but the original still is.

You could still.

Right.

So.

But this one, it's like it's been messed with too much.

It's been mangled like it's been Doctor Marrode and it's been like completely, you know, twisted beyond recognition because we have, as you said, because we.

Yeah, because we have, you know, it's gotten the South Park treatment.

It's gotten like it was lampooned in Austin Powers, like they're the way that this movie has created such a.

A parody ripple have more kind of artistic credibility than the original.

I know it's really wild.

So there are a couple of different things that I think could be done.

Of course, there's like the Disaster Artist treatment where you make a movie about the making of the movie and.

Or a musical.

Well, I, I feel like keep it simple because you have the story of Richard Stanley, who I, you know, is coming to this project with like a really personal drive and passion.

It ruined his childhood.

It ruined his childhood.

And then to then be in a position where you are on the set of your movie that was stolen from you and you are an extra and you are holding a torch next to giant like things of gasoline.

Like you could just go out.

You can just end it on that.

And it's like, that's it.

And it's this, it's the story of, of somebody who's been wronged by Hollywood and who's been, you know, destroyed by the system.

It's a somebody who, who's an independent filmmaker who has been, you know, the, the, the Hollywood system has like shattered his dreams to the point in reality where like he goes into hiding for a long time, not just at the, the farm of, of a guy who doesn't have use of his legs.

But like I, he said to Ferzibach.

Like, I don't think I want to do like, make movies anymore.

No, it ruined his like his childhood dream.

It ruined his childhood because one of his childhood dreams was to make a movie of the island of Doctor Moreau.

I know.

Yeah, so.

Yeah.

So anyway, that's kind of where where I would see things is to do something.

Absolutely, Billy.

Zane back as Marlon Brando.

Yes, and that's something I wanted to talk about.

I'm.

I really want to see waltzing with Brando.

Yeah, the new movie where Billy Zane seems to look and sound a lot like Marlon Brando.

And it's the story of him wanting to buy an island and develop an island that's like uninhabitable basically, like that's completely toast.

And this island, so waltzing with Brando is is a movie about it.

But like this, this island is like a resort destination that people can actually go to.

And I'm sure it costs like a crazy amount of money to go there.

But if you go to, I think it's like thebrando.com is like the website for the the resort on on his island.

Yeah.

But yeah, I was like, man, I really want to see waltzing with Brando to prepare for this episode, but that's not that's not possible right now.

No, but but hey, like I'm, I'm definitely.

Oh yeah.

He yeah.

His his island in Tahiti.

Yeah.

He yeah.

So yeah.

Right, so I, I feel like Billy Zane is like, you know, look, we love Billy Zane.

We've talked about Billy Zane plenty and it's like for him to be Brando is beautiful.

I love it.

Yeah, as who would you cast as like as Val?

Kilmer, Jack Kilmer, his son.

I don't know.

I don't know who who would actually do do justice to to Val Kilmer, but like, you know, that's.

It would be, Yeah, it's kind of, yeah, it's, it's, yeah.

It kind of kind of tricky.

Like Domino Gleason as as David Thulus.

Oh, 100%.

He'd be great, Thulus.

Well, Dan, before you tell everybody, we're going to be covering on our next H episode, episode 300 of The Ruined Childhoods.

Holy.

Cow, which is not the.

Holy cow.

I want to thank everybody who's been tuning in for the past 299 episodes and I, for anybody who has left us comments anywhere or rated or reviewed us on like Apple podcast, Spotify, YouTube, everywhere, really appreciate it.

We want to see more of those coming in.

And, and definitely if you leave a comment somewhere or a review, we'll, we'll, we'll shout you out.

We'll, you know, we'll, we'll talk about it a little bit.

e-mail us ruin childless pod.com ruin childless pod@gmail.com because we'd love to hear what your takes are on any of the movies that we're talking about.

We are currently in, we're almost at the end of our third season where we are going up the alphabet and down the alphabet with movie titles.

We went from A-Z.

Now we're on our way from Z to A Island of Doctor Moreau was our second iMovie.

Dan, what is our second H movie?

Our second H movie, we're bringing the HS with Harry and the Hendersons from 1987.

Directed by William Deere.

Starring John Lithgow, Kevin Peter Hall, Melinda Dillon, Don Amici.

MMM, at Walsh, David, David Suchet, Laney Kazan.

Yeah, I was gonna say in Bigfoot, but I said Kevin Peter Hall.

So you.

Said Kevin Peter Hall.

Absolutely.

I am so excited.

And sitting.

300 episodes exactly.

I know I can't believe it's taking this 300 episodes to get to Harry and the Hendersons, but I feel like I for a podcast that started episode 1, a short circuit, Yeah.

You know, to have like kind of a a monumental episode be something I I think of the same ilk.

Yeah.

Feels appropriate.

Absolutely, absolutely.

A movie of our childhoods.

Yeah.

Yeah, I I owned the novelization.

I am sorry I do not have it to this day.

I know we'll talk about that next time, but Dan, as you are marooned and whisked away to the island of Doctor Moreau, I wish you a good journey.

Good journey.