Next we have a 3035 year old male, no ID, no medical history.

He was found on the riverbank just South of the city.

There's a sizeable population of homeless and indigents there.

We get at least three no names like Kim every week.

Nobody does anything about the homeless until they become train wrecks like Mr.

John Doe here.

He's got burns covering over 40% of his body.

The hands and face are the most severe.

10 years ago, pain from the burns would have been intolerable.

This man would have spent the rest of his life screaming.

Now we use the rankivarius technique.

Quite simply, we sever the nerves within the spinal tholamic tract there, which, as you know, transmits neural impulses of pain and vibratory sense to the brain.

No longer receiving impulses of pain.

You stick him with a pin and he can't even feel it.

As in many radical procedures, there are serious side effects to this operation.

When the body ceases to feel, when so much sensory input is lost, the mind grows hungry, starved of its regular diet of input, it takes the only remaining stimulation it has, the emotions, and amplifies them, giving rise to alienation.

Loneliness, uncontrolled rage is not uncommon now.

Surges of adrenaline flow unchecked through the body and brain, giving him augmented strength, hence the restraints.

Naturally, we give them every chance of recovery.

Remain optimistic, inspire confidence.

Talk to him about rehabilitation potential.

Personally, I give him a nine on the Buzzard scale.

Her Monday remake of Matthew Fonsley, A kicker Coen brothers send up with Timothy shall amaze say to sing came prequel a Midnight Cowboy sequel Alvin and the chip monsters of another squeak.

There's so many new ways to revisit sideways photographic novel is how we choose to update, but we still hold fast.

You can't change the past on the Ruined Childhoods podcast.

On our last D movie, we babbled on about the 2001 cerebral time travel film Donnie Darko.

Directed by Richard Kelly and starring Jake Gyllenhaal and Jenna Malone, the film is remembered for its dark yet witty tone, perplexing plot and truly awesome 80s soundtrack showcasing artists like Duran Duran, Tears For Fears and Echo and The Bunny Man.

Hailing from Liverpool, England and formed in the late 1970s, Echoing The Bunnymen had moderate success in the UK and finally burst into the mainstream in 1983 with their album Porcupine and their 1984 album Ocean Rain, which featured the hit song The Killing Moon, as heard on the aforementioned Donnie Darko soundtrack.

But this wasn't their only song to be used in a feature film.

Bring on the Dancing Horses was featured in Pretty and Pink.

Never Stop can be heard in 2006's History Boys and a cover of The Doors.

People are Strange plays as the Emerson family rolls into Santa Carla and the Lost Boys.

Released in the stellar movie year of 1987 and previously featured on this very podcast, The Lost Boys tells the story of a group of very cool vampires who welcome a new recruit to their coven, but don't expect his family and other locals to resist with force.

The Lost Boys directed by Joel Schumacher as a stone cold classic and is fondly remembered for its blend of comedy, horror and Corey's.

Its influence is extraordinary, yet somehow only has one award under its belt, a Saturn Award for Best Horror Film.

This prestigious award began in 1973, celebrating 1972's horror film Blacula with no other nominees.

The following year, however, appropriately had 13 nominees and awarded The Exorcist with the honor.

But when the Lost Boys won in 1987, there were only four other nominees, Hellraiser, Near Dark, A Nightmare on Elm Street 3, Dream Warriors, and Evil Dead 2.

Directed by Sam Raimi and starring Bruce Campbell, Evil Dead 2 is a follow up to the stylized 1981 horror filmed The Evil Dead, in which a group of young adults find the Necronomicon, or the Book of the Dead, in a remote cabin along with the tape recording which, when played, awakens the spirits of the underworld.

The evil dead was Sam raimi's first widely distributed film as a director and will launch a career that would include two more evil dead movies, 3 spider man movies, a Sharon Stone, gene hackman western, and this week's film greeting starfighters.

This is ruined childhoods.

I'm John and joined, as always by my brother Dan.

And on this episode we're celebrating Sam Raimi's 1990 revenge pseudo superhero film Darkman, the story of a scientist whose life and skin is taken from him by an evil real estate developer and his mobster Coke and murder.

Dan, if you could put on someone else's fake skin to get revenge on someone from your past, who would it be?

Oh, not to hit you with like a real, yeah, you know, dicey question right off the bat, but here we are.

Is this kind of a, so are we thinking in kind of a like I'm gonna, I'll make the Mission Impossible reference because even though this comes six years, Darkman comes six years before the 1st Mission Impossible.

But the Mission Impossible, are we talking like where I am getting that like like very lifelike looking mask, which we do see Darkman and I am masquerading as as somebody to gain revenge on somebody from my past.

Wow, who who would it be?

Who would it be?

I you know what, John, I'm going to go with, all right, I'm just going to get super petty here.

All right, I'm going to get super petty and I'm going to say so I'm going to say Vin Diesel.

And now like, I'm just, I'm just thinking, who am I going to get revenge on in my and I don't know, this is this is off the Dome as they say.

And I I'm thinking about I'm like, who do I want to get revenge on?

And Oh no, you know what?

OK, here, here's what I'll all right, so I'm going to be petty here and I'm trying to think, all right, do I go after an ex or do I go after the head of the acting school that I was a part of who decided that I should be dismissed from that acting school?

So Oh, I didn't know about this.

So, and I, I feel bad because the, like, the man has, has since passed away and I, I, I don't want to besmirch his name.

He's well respected in the, you know, especially the theatre community, the New York theatre community.

I I would perhaps masquerade as his mentor, Sanford Meisner.

Oh, OK.

So and so interesting story is I was in a play at the college that was directed by this person.

Granted he didn't cast me.

I was one of the people that like the stage manager got because, like, they needed people to stand in this scene in a place so very much you filling the space there.

But we were in rehearsals for this play when Sanford Meisner died and the director actually attended the funeral.

Sanford Meisner, you know, one of the, the, you know, innovators of the method.

Right.

Really like, you know, one of the, you know, like in under his tutelage, so many of the, you know, classic actors that we've talked about and, you know, we're talking a contemporary of, you know, people like Stella Adler and right, all those greats.

So, but I, I, I think I would masquerade as as Sanford Meisner and just give him a dressing down and, and just be like, you know, I need to be honest.

I like never thought I'm I'm I'm, I'm quite surprised you've done as well as you have doing what you have because I never actually thought you had talent and.

My goodness.

The checks didn't bounce.

So here we are.

I, I don't, you know, John, I'm not a vindictive person, like right.

It's, it's hard for me to, to fully embrace that.

But you know, if we're going off off the, the Dome here, that's, that's what it's going to be.

What about you?

Oh, I mean I can think of a number of teachers who did me dirty my like my 4th grade teacher I.

Was going to say I remember because I of course being brothers we had attended the same school.

I did not have that teacher, but knew of that teacher and was not surprised to learn that they were a psychopath.

They, yeah, they were not nice.

They were and very and and and singled me out.

Yeah, yeah.

So not so so so who would?

What would you do?

Well, The thing is I wouldn't be able, I wouldn't have been able to do it at that time because even if I was able to like, I don't know, put on the, the, the school principal's synthetic skin, I was, you know, nine years old and had the body of a nine year old.

So it would have to be like, yeah, it would have to be kind of like going back as an adult and doing one thing or another.

Got it.

So yeah, but I, I mean, look, I don't know what she's up to.

I don't know what what the situation is with her anymore, but I don't know.

Who cares?

No, no, no taking that woman, not taking up any rent in anyone's heads anymore.

Yeah, so.

But you know, certainly former employers, I would love to not, you know, like I'm not a vindictive person either, but if I had the technology to masquerade as somebody else effectively.

You might be more vindictive.

I know it might unlock something in me.

Oh, well, I mean, that's you'd be like, you know, much like a Peyton Westlake.

Yeah, but I'm not going to go around cutting people's fingers off with a a cigar cutter.

No, but at least there's that.

Wow, yes, OK, so Darkman, I'm so excited.

We're talking about Darkman.

I feel like you have oh wait, you were an early Darkman adopter and the world followed suit.

Maybe took them a little bit while while longer, but you were definitely a a Darkman guy.

Darkman was definitely one of those movies where I was ahead of the curve on it and, you know, saw it opening weekend, but the ad campaign and it's like, yes, if you.

Go is Darkman.

If you go and you re.

I had that from the premiere magazine up on my wall.

I remember it so clearly.

And it's one of the things that you read about with this movie is that, I mean, Universal was releasing it there at the end of August in 1990.

So summer, yes, but the the tail end of summer there when you're not exactly releasing your tent poles.

Yeah.

But they had and they had this ad campaign that cost them nothing because it was some stylized text.

The A in the in man was a silhouette of the Darkman character.

So I loved your building this mythology around this character and this mystique around this character before you know anything else.

And it's not like this was Sam Raimi.

This was Sam Raimi's first studio film.

It.

Yeah.

And he was like, yeah, of course he was known.

Like the Evil Dead movies had a following and were known, but this was someone who was not at.

I mean, you look at Darkman, it follows Batman by a year.

Of course, Batman in 19 is going to say everyone wants their own Batman after that.

As the story goes, Raimi had been pursuing, he had actually been pursuing Batman and was also pursuing the Shadow.

Yeah, Universal had the rights to that and was event eventually was was made in 1994.

I remember liking it when I saw it when it first came out in the theatre, but I don't think I've seen it since then and I feel like everything I hear is just like, oh, it's not good.

And then it's just like, oh, I get it.

I was just 11.

Right, no, if I remember correctly, I saw I saw the shadow in the theater and my memories of it, even though I don't think I've seen it once since are that it like mid?

That is the one of those movies that really just it's not bad, but it's also.

It works as a a radio serial.

Well, and who knows, it could have.

Worked episodic thing, but.

Look, Sam Raimi's shadow might have worked wonderfully on screen, but I guess thankfully we, we didn't find out because he, he, he decided he wanted to do something like that so much so he created Darkman, his character.

And of course.

Which is cool because it's an it's an original character, didn't come from something else.

No, it it was all original.

I mean, definitely inspired it inspired actually more by the old monster movies, the the Universal, fittingly those, those old monster movies and you know, kind of like Phantom of the Opera and.

Totally Phantom of the Opera.

Little bit of that Elephant Man vibe in there, but totally original.

And it takes I what I, I mean, we got to do the synopsis and all that.

But yeah, so this is just one of those movies that I caught me from the first time I saw it at age almost 13 at the Cranford Twin.

Yeah, perfect movie for a 1213 year old.

Oh, I mean, for me, yeah.

I mean, that was that was the summer I started going to rated R movies and like whichever grown up would drop me off at the movie theater would just kind of like wave to the box office.

You know, I don't know if we'll ever do this movie.

We might, but maybe not for a while.

But I remember 1 experience that I had and it wasn't an R movie.

It was APG 13 movie.

But I was 12.

No, no, no, no.

Yeah, no, no, no.

I was 12 and went to go see Stargate at the at our hometown theatre with our brother Scott, who at the time was very big into like ancient Egypt stuff.

So we were totally psyched about it.

And also.

Aliens, Egypt, X-Files, all that.

That movie, man, that movie was perfect for him.

And I was going with him, but I or maybe I what year did that come out?

94.

OK, yeah, I want.

To say that's a December 94 release.

Right.

So it was 1 where and I think that our brother was maybe he had just turned 13.

Yeah.

Yeah, he I guess would have just become 13 right before then.

And we went to it just the two of us.

And because neither of us he's, we said that he was 12 so that we could get the children's pricing for him, but but they wouldn't let us in because we weren't 13 and our mom had to come and like let us in essentially like buy us the tickets.

Late late October 94.

This would have come out right after his his birthday.

Yeah.

But we were still trying to get that cheap pricing, which was thinking about it.

Now it's just like unfathomably cheap movie tickets.

Oh yeah, I mean, I, I think I remember the cheapest movie ticket back then was the matinee at the Westfield Twin for like 250.

Oh, yeah.

That's really good.

Yeah.

So.

Well, yeah.

I mean, this is a movie that I certainly didn't see when it came out in the theaters.

I would have been too young.

But it's one that I probably only caught up with after I was maybe in college because I don't know if I would have really.

I mean, you probably had it on VHS at the house and I've maybe, I maybe saw bits and pieces if you were watching it and I would happen to be around.

But I only really remember seeing it after I had started to get into like Sam Raimi movies.

And then I was just like, Oh well, now I need to kind of see more Sam Raimi movies.

Right.

And that's that's the college, like the college thing.

And you're also getting in there when you went were in college because you were in college.

It was like Spider Man came out in 2002.

Right, so I, I started College in 2001 and late high school, early college was when I was getting into like Evil dead Army of Darkness and definitely had that thirst for more.

And so it was around then that I was, you know, just watching more and more of his stuff.

Not as much as I should have, because I hadn't even watched, you know, The Quick and the Dead was one that I had really only seen until somewhat recently.

And love.

Yeah, yeah, Although I feel like that one has, there's something like I watched it again not too long ago and I, I, I feel like I enjoyed it differently, not just more, but differently than I had watching it probably when it came out on VHS.

And then I think I was kind of like, you know, that was as Leonardo DiCaprio was his his star was just on the rise.

Yeah.

And I think I was at that time when it came out, there was a little, there was kind of like a, a bit kind of like a Sharon Stone fatigue.

Oh.

Oh, really?

I feel, which feels silly.

It feels silly because you go back and you watch that movie and you're like, she's so damn good and how was this not like she's?

Really good, yeah.

You know, kick open doors for her.

Russell Crowe early.

That was his breakout year in terms of American film.

But yeah, so I mean virtuosity, yeah, yeah.

Virtuosity that same year.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So.

So Sam Raimi does, I think the only other, right.

So he's got like the Quick and the Dead.

Yeah.

Spider Man's really like the the first big like mainstream thing he does 'cause everything else is kind of quirky.

Simple plan is really good and very.

Simple plan Well, I mean, you know, he has so much crossover with with Coen brothers stuff and so simple plan.

It's it's very coenzy.

And I know he did some second unit work on Hudsucker Proxy and I think he did some cinematography and maybe editing for them on some other.

Stuff, I mean, possibly they were all, I mean they were all really, really tight, especially around.

The I love that.

Of making Darkman.

And I and I love that his work is so feel so different from kind of their their stuff.

I feel like did he do some work with with Raising Arizona?

I don't know if that's on like his list of credits, but there's so much of it where it's like I could see some of the shots that are in there feel like they would have come from his mind.

Yeah, though, though Barry Sonnenfeld was the DP on that.

Barry Sonnenfeld was ADP, but I feel like Sam Raimi must have been involved somehow.

Yeah, so let's see that is not at least in on Wikipedia.

Well, that's, I mean, that's just another amazing director that's kind of been that was part of that cluster at that beginning of the Coen brothers that that split off and really paved their own, their own course in a very different way from the Coen brothers.

Yeah, yeah.

Oh yeah.

Absolutely love Sonnenfeld, but yeah yeah he definitely has.

He's so Raimi acted in Hudsucker Proxy and Miller's Crossing.

He's got a small part in Miller's Crossing.

Also the fan stones.

Oh, really?

Yeah, interesting.

Oh, he says Cliff van der Cave look alike.

OK, Yeah.

I think that we'd have to watch that movie to understand what that means, and I don't think that we're going to do that.

No, not not.

I mean, I, I, I saw it again back in the day, but not not since.

But yeah.

So Sam is it.

This is the first time we're we're covering Sam Raimi.

Yeah, well, I mean, he's done such, such awesome work.

And yeah, we haven't done The Evil Dead.

We don't really do a lot of horror stuff, even though I feel like his, his hard work, you know, drifts into it kind of transcends the.

Gift the gift is a is great with Cate Blanchett.

I mean amazing cast than that yeah.

Hilary Swank.

Katie Holmes.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

Well, then there's the Spider Man movies, Drag Me to Hell, which we've talked about with Alison Loman.

Great.

I don't think that we'll ever talk about Oz the Great and Powerful.

I think that I tried to watch it when we were doing our Wizard of Oz episode, but I couldn't find it.

I, I gave.

No, yeah, I'm it just didn't feel.

I didn't, I didn't feel drawn to that at all.

But yeah, I mean Doctor Strange.

Right.

And, and I thought that he was really great for that.

It made sense with his aesthetic.

Yeah.

So yeah, I, I mean, I'm glad that we're talking about him now.

You know, I feel like The Quick and the Dead was maybe on our list when we were doing queue movies, but Q, the winged serpent obviously was the right move.

And I think Sam Raimi would agree.

And I think Sam Raimi.

Would agree he probably loves that movie.

What was our other Q movie?

Q and AI don't know.

No, no.

What was this?

How do I not remember what?

Quest for fire.

Movie was What's that?

Quest for fire, you mean?

No, Wait, our other.

You don't.

Remember either oh, our other Q movie that we actually did?

Oh, I thought you meant other options.

Ohh crap.

That was Quadrophenia.

Quadrophenia.

Yes, of.

Course, So we made the right decisions, but like, yes, I feel like the Quick and the Dead would have been an easy runner up for either of those.

Of course, yeah.

Oh, what a what a fine film to talk about, you know, Yeah, of course.

You know, with Gene Hackman's somewhat recent passing and you know, a great movie to look at in his filmography, the whole sub genre of Gene Hackman westerns.

I know, big time but but we're talking about Darkman.

That we are so.

So so yes, your your history with Darkman goes back pretty far.

Did you ever watch any of the sequels?

I have not seen any of the sequels.

Yeah, it felt like, like the lack of an, of Sam Raimi involvement was not, was not going to do it.

And I, I, I was looking for them to watch, but in terms of tracking them down to, to stream it, it just wasn't happening in time for this episode.

At some point I would like to check them out.

My library had like the DVD collection of just like the Darkman trilogy, but they were they were taken out, which I which is great.

I'm glad that people are watching them, but it wasn't something that I was like desperate to track down because I feel like they what the second one's what return of Durant or something like that.

And then the third one is Die Darkman, Die.

I'm actually more interested in that one.

Yeah, and they don't have Liam Neeson.

Correct.

No, no.

Arnold Voslu the The Mummy takes over.

Right.

Oh, yes, yes, yes.

Who's great?

I I mean, of course, Yeah, yeah.

But let's talk about Liam Neeson.

Let's talk about Liam Neeson as Darkman.

But first.

Oh, no, no.

Give a synopsis.

Brief synopsis here.

If you will.

Of course, scientist Peyton Westlake is on the verge of a groundbreaking invention synthetic skin, when a gang of vicious thugs led by the sadistic Robert G Durant breaks into his lab, killing his assistant and tormenting Westlake before leaving him for dead and blowing up the lab.

Westlake somehow survives the explosion, and thanks to some experimental surgery that leaves him super strong and impervious to pain, he sets off on a mission of vengeance against Durant and Louis Strack Junior, the sinister real estate developer pulling the strings.

Yeah.

As Peyton Westlake, we have Liam Neeson.

As Robert G Durant, we have Larry Drake.

I almost said Robert Drake.

Yeah.

Larry Drake as Robert.

Drake as Robert.

Doctor giggles himself.

Indeed.

Yeah.

Emmy Award winner.

Emmy Award winner for LA Law, Two time Emmy Award winner.

Really.

Larry Drake.

Yes, as Julie Peyton Westlake's girlfriend, we have Frances Mcdormand.

Mm hmm.

And yeah, I mean, that's are we.

You've got like Ted Ramey in there as one.

You've got just like a bunch of bunch of characters in there.

A Bruce Campbell cameo.

Bruce Campbell.

Cameo.

Of course, it's not a Sam Raimi film without.

One, yeah, there's also one of the one of the the one of Durant's goons is one of the friends from Wayne's World, one of the one of the the head banging crew.

The that works.

In the oh, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, I know the guy who it's the guy who takes the machine the in the first sequence, the wonderful sequence that introduces Durant and his gay you meet Durant before you meet Westlake in this movie, but yeah, no, it's the guy who pulls the it's so awesome.

One of the Durant's goon.

I I mean, shoot, there's so many things I don't want to talk about in case people haven't seen it, but also it's been 35 years.

Yeah.

So, yeah, no, one of one of Durant's goons has a, a prosthetic leg slash machine gun that 'cause they, the movie opens with Durant's gang going to meet with this other gang.

And Durant is trying to buy all this, buy property from this other guy and kind of take over his turf.

And the other guy is like ready to shut it down.

And of course, when Durant's gang shows up, they frisk them all and they they can't be found to have any weapons on them.

Right.

Who would suspect that the the guy with the limp who they, you know, bum leg and he knocks on it and says no leg right and then right, the guy with the long hair who now I'm that's why he looks familiar.

Part of of Wayne's crew.

The camera guy.

Yeah, he pulls right.

He does the the whole counting the with the fingers.

Yes, that's the guy totally.

That's the guy who Yeah, pulls pulls the machine gun.

One of the great there's so many great touches.

I love the introductions in this film, the introduct like that, the just what you learn about Durant and his gang.

Durant and his propensity for cutting off the fingers of his victims with a cigar cutter.

So cool.

So, so cool.

I remember just watching that as a kid and thinking like, wow, that's so inventive.

And I mean, I don't know what the hell a cigar cutter was when I was in 12 going on 13, right?

But it was still like, that is or actually they demonstrate because he lights the cigar.

So context matters.

And then yeah, it was it was so cool.

They've got that and the machine gun leg.

There's that funny moment after they he shoots everybody and they just leave the enemy gang let leader standing there and it's quiet except for the the one legged guy hopping and then the long the headbanger just puts out his arm really like sharp for him to grab onto.

And it's this just funny.

There's such it's humor that it's a really fun.

It's a really fun movie.

It's much fun.

It's got great fun villains and Liam Neeson is is pretty perfect as Peyton.

He he really, he goes all into the, the melodrama of it kind of the Doctor Frankenstein.

Yeah, which I watch.

I watched the the James Whale Frankenstein.

Oh, OK.

Recently and is streaming on on prime and there's definitely a connection between the performance there as Henry Frankenstein.

I forget the Clive something is the actor in that and the way that Liam Neeson approaches Peyton W the physicality even of it.

Yeah, I feel like he uses his his body so well.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

Well, when you've got that big lanky body, gotta know how to use it.

Yeah, yeah, but he sure does because he he's like this monster.

And especially after he's he loses his all the feeling he has and he's stumbling around and the moment he had the moment where he like he greets the kitten when he finds his new lab.

The art direction is awesome.

Oh my God I love it.

The lab is so cool.

It's almost just like, it's like, who is funding this?

Like who are they working for?

Are they just independent scientists?

Oh well, his, his old lab.

Yeah, his his original lab.

Right.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, but that's a good question.

That's my assumption.

Is wealthy family slash inheritance do?

You think that it's his money slash inheritance or his kind of assistant?

No, I think it's his.

You think OK.

Yeah, yeah, there's something about it.

I mean, there's something about the the picture when they're looking through the old photos and rebel without a clue and right.

It's kind of like and it, but it just kind of rings of like the OK, well, you did like kind of the the, you know, the, the long hair thing because you could right it, it felt like that.

Yeah, there's, there's, there's definitely a question of over who's bankrolling the lab, but it doesn't seem like there's anything else in No, no, it doesn't seem like there's there's anything else in involved there.

But yeah, well, so I also really appreciate the way that they set up the the way that he's creating the synthetic skin and the problems that are coming up.

And it it really helps set the stakes for when he actually does utilize the skin and how if it's light, if there's light in contact with it, he knows exactly how much time he has before it dissolves.

Such a great setup.

I I.

Felt like there could have maybe been there maybe could have been more about, you know, going out in the dark and doing more in the dark.

Because if it's dark out then it's it can last as long as he wants it to last pretty much.

Yeah, I mean, it's he, he is called Darkman.

Yeah.

So I feel like they could have maybe done a little bit more of that, but honestly, it was just a lot of fun to, I don't know, see how things would play out and know the the kind of ticking clock that he had each time that he would do it.

And the little missteps he makes, like acts like after he after he sets up the, there's kind of the big, like big called like ox looking thug that he sets up and he makes Durant think that the guy was, was, was like he him and the this other thug.

We're going to steal money and, and, and run off and, and Westlake really sets him up well.

And he's got the disguise on.

But what he doesn't anticipate, I guess, is that Durant and his thugs are going to throw this guy out the window.

Yeah.

And they throw him out the window.

And Westlake still sitting there waiting for the bus stop in the like, looking like this this guy.

And of course, the great set up with the woman who sees So good.

Yeah, Yeah, man, so much fun.

Well, and also when he when he masquerades as Durant and then they have that moment in the revolving door and the, you know, convincing the the the guys like, what are you doing?

Shoot him.

It's like, no, shoot him.

Oh, so it's such a great sequence and it keeps moving.

This movie just keeps moving.

Oh, it's it's very fast.

Frances Mcdormand as Julie.

Now, if anybody listen to our free Jack episode, this is another one where there's a Julie and there's a situation where there's the talk of getting married and of course, a tragedy.

And she's working for a sinister person who is trying to woo her and win her.

Yeah, there's no cure for that.

But there is a kiss.

Dancing.

That's right.

So I don't know if I don't know if Free Jack kind of lifted that from Darkman, but at least Darkman got there first.

Yeah, no, it definitely it.

It definitely feels like there's some strange parallels between Free Jack and and Darkman.

I, you know, OK, while we're talking about free Jack, and I know I'm the one that brought it up, but something I was thinking about this morning, because I think about free Jack just like all the time, of course.

And and I was thinking Amelia Earhart, maybe she got free Jacked.

Wow.

Wow, wouldn't that be something?

Right.

Wow, that's a.

I'm so glad you mentioned that.

So everybody just sit with that for a while.

We'll just see if why.

Did you mention that in the middle of the Darkman episode?

Because now.

I'm so sorry because I thought about it this morning while I was making coffee.

Now I need to go watch that Hilary Swank movie and see if they dropped any hints.

Yeah, it's just at the end she gets zapped into the the McCandless Corporation.

Is there a there's a post credits scene to it?

Isn't there to Amelia?

There's a post credits scene.

Yeah, Vascendac.

Like Amelia one Mississippi.

Anyway, back to Darkman, and I'm happy to say that.

Back to Darkman.

You know what else?

There's an interesting connection with Darkman and I, so I was looking at the, I was trying to figure out like, where is Darkman supposed to take place?

I mean, of course it's, it's shot around LA and in Toronto, but in the first scene there's a car with Michigan license plates and it made me think of Detroit.

And of course, Detroit is all about sinister land developers trying to build the the city of the future.

Right.

I was thinking about RoboCop.

Yeah, I was thinking about RoboCop in the scene where, you know, all of the doctors are kind of like kind of poking him and saying like, well, you know, he can't feel any of this, it doesn't matter and whatever.

He's a nine on the vegetable, Taylor.

Yeah.

So I, I was thinking about RoboCop in that moment where it's like these could be the same people where it's just like down the hall we got, we got Robo.

I think about I I think I thought about it with the model of the city of the future and I think I thought about it before, but it was it was just in the time where I said holy shit, like there's Michigan license plates.

This.

This is Detroit it.

Could be?

Did the model have like an OCP building?

It's OCP, right?

Yeah, OCP, well, I'm like, maybe they're maybe Strack and OCP are in competition, right, Man, that's a crossover, Yeah.

Well, let's talk about him for a second.

He that character is unhinged the way that like you, you see him kind of in the the climactic fight scene, you know, just standing on, you know, sky beams.

Yeah, it's incredible.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Not even scaffolding.

It's just like.

How many stories Skyscraper, like top floor skyscraper.

And he's just, he's hopping from beam to beam.

Yeah.

It's it's such a great piece of characterization that shows you where you know where this character is, what they're, what they're willing to do, what they're not afraid of.

Just like a straight up evil dude.

Well, and also another moment that's evil of him is when he, when Julie brings up the Belisarius memo, it's not something that she tries to hide that she knows about.

And he just comes out and admitting he's like bribes.

It looks like bribes, right?

Yeah, that's what it is.

So the Belisarius memo, and I'm, I'm glad you brought that up.

So it's, it's introduced so perfectly at the beginning.

She has this memo that she maybe wasn't supposed to see.

She has it at the place where she wakes up 1 morning with with Peyton.

He puts his coffee cup down on it.

So you can clearly recognize it throughout the movie where it's this piece of paper with a coffee ring.

Yeah.

On it.

Perfect.

And could only that, you know, a few years later, you would not have been able to do that because there would not have been a physical piece of paper that would have travelled around like this.

And it's, it's awesome because when you see it, it's amazing.

And then when she sees it later on and recognizes it, it's just like, oh damn, she spotted it and knows exactly what that's all about, right?

Because, and that's the reason.

So your, your synopsis would have gone on for paragraphs had you gone into full detail about the MO and, and Julie and everything.

But essentially, the reason why Peyton's lab and apartment was destroyed is because they were trying to track down this memo, and in order to erase any evidence of it, they had to, of course, kill him.

So, right, and they take right, They take the memo.

But then Julie Julie is led to believe that it was just a freak accident and of course, that everything was lost in the fire.

Right.

So yeah, it is, it is a a great it, it is a fantastic set up where Julie finds this memo and she she goes distract about it.

But I love how he's just so like, yeah, hey, got me, I'm just going to send my thugs over to blow up your boyfriend's lab and steal the memo and is the reason why they don't just destroy the memo?

I think that they just have to I mean, I think they need to kill him in order to because he would might know about it.

I.

Don't know, right?

But I'm saying like they don't destroy the memo like they bring it back.

Like they give it to me like Shrek has it.

Yeah, I don't know.

I'm.

Trying to remember if there was a if there was a good reason why he why he needed it.

This is one of those movies where I don't really need everything to be explained because it is comic booky, even though it doesn't come from a comic book though it was made into a comic book.

Well.

Yeah, just for, I think a few issues.

But it it, it flows like a comic book where it's like you don't need to know every single reason behind everything.

He's the bad guy ever.

Explained it.

It wouldn't be interesting.

He's the bad guy.

He's, you know, the megalomaniac who wants to build and build the city of the future and control it and rule over everything because that's apparent.

That's, you know, kind of a key character trait of real estate developers in big cities to, yeah, do whatever they must do to gain what they want to gain so that they can control what and who they want to control.

That's right.

In movies, of course.

So in Darkman, in Darkman dancing, Yeah.

I love when they're at they're they're at the just some context for the dancing thing is they're at this like dinner that Durant and his gang are also at.

And this this like dinner party, whatever it is for the Strac corporation.

And and he like bring, you know, like they bring up the memo and she's like, OK, yeah, you know, that's a sore spot because like, you know, my boyfriend blew up and everything.

And then and, and that's when he's like.

Oh, my boyfriend blew up.

He's like, and she's like, really depressed.

She's like, yeah, I would appreciate it if you don't bring that up again.

He's like, oh, yeah, right.

Well, but you know, it'll help.

Dancing and soups are up.

And then these people.

Are completely bananas.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

But I love it.

I love it.

He's a great, yeah.

Like he's a great villain.

It's got a great villain structure with with him and, and with Durant as Durant kind of being the the device that that keeps Westlake moving.

But of course, at at the end, it's you know, Strack is almost, you know, almost his his undoing.

Right now, the the scenes where Peyton does, you know, recreate his own skin and and, you know, finds Julie and and tries to reconnect with her.

Those are such heartbreaking scenes, especially at like the carnival and everything where it's just like this poor guy.

On the carnival.

Troll his emotions.

Yeah, he can, you know, just be.

Oh yeah, he loses it at the carnival.

The Liam Neeson is so great in in that scene.

He's very good.

He's very good.

This is this is the right kind of role for him.

Yeah, no, you know, and it's.

Pre it's of course pre like taken and everything you know where Oh yeah, the his intensity is really showcased, but like I think.

This was the first thing I saw him.

I don't know that I had seen him in anything before this.

Yeah, I know that in school I watched Ethan Frohm and I definitely, that probably would have been the first time that I saw him.

OK, yeah, which that came out after this, but you, you didn't see this until much but.

Yeah, I know.

But like, just just in terms of like what I saw I.

Mean you might have seen.

You probably saw like a lot of Liam Neeson before you saw this, if you did not discover it until a little later.

Schindler's List.

Schindler's List, Of course.

I don't think that I saw Nell at that point.

No, yeah, I don't think I ever actually saw that.

Movie was one where I remember it coming out, but I feel like it was, I don't know, it became like a bit of a punchline.

Yeah, yeah, it was.

I just think of it Tay in the wind and I don't and like I said, I don't think I ever actually saw the movie, but I just think of that Tay in the wind.

Yeah, but yeah, I did not.

That was also like it was like her follow up to I guess she did little man Tate between the sounds of limbs and that.

But it was like it was his follow up to to Schindler's List.

He had Michael Collins after he was getting Michael Collins.

Good movie so but yeah, I.

Remember if I saw Michael Collins?

It's fine.

It's good.

It's good.

Historical epic.

Neil Jordan, Julia Roberts doing an Irish accent.

Not the highlight of the movie.

Oh, you know.

And it's Liam Neeson being able to actually use his Irish accent right sounding.

Out of place.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So, so, But yeah.

So this was my introduction to Liam Neeson.

I ended up seeing other things like Excalibur later on, other things he was in, but my introduction to Liam Neeson and I think having somebody who I didn't know, having actors who I didn't recognize, like I'd seen Raising Arizona, but I wasn't at the.

I'm not like it.

Oh, yes, it's Frances Mcdormand of Blood Simple.

Yeah.

So it was people who were unknown.

I didn't watch LA Law.

I didn't know who Larry Drake was.

So yeah, it they were, they were unknown.

So I could just really lose myself in the story.

I didn't have expectations.

I just came in off this ad campaign that, that made it look really cool and, and interesting.

You know, I remember summer of 1990, not I, I, I feel like a lot of the movies I saw that summer were the ones I saw in theaters at that time were like a little disappointing.

Like I feel like Dick Tracy, that was like the big movie that summer was a little disappointing.

Like Die Hard 2.

I remember seeing Die Hard 2 and that was like, that was great and that was fun.

But otherwise I think of the other summer movies, summer 1990, and it was either stuff that I didn't see, like I didn't go see Ghost, I didn't go see Days of Thunder.

I liked it, but.

Right now, I might be misremembering this, but so correct me if I'm wrong and maybe you'd also don't remember, I don't know.

But you know, growing up in our basement, there was a pool table.

And I remember on the wall where we had the pool cues above each one, there was a cut out from the newspaper of different like movie posters from like the showtimes.

And I remember Die Hard 2 being one of them.

And I feel like Darkman may have been another one.

Oh, that's weird.

And it would have been you that put him up because it definitely wasn't me or our brother, so.

I.

Definitely Die Hard too and I feel like Darkman was also there.

I have Fair enough collection, it was a long time ago.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

No, but I was AI was a big fan of the Darkman movie and yeah, like made a huge impression.

Watched it a ton on VHS actually don't know that.

I don't think I ever ended up getting the DVD.

Well, this that's a good lead in to talk about kind of its continuing legacy.

And and of course there were there have been a few, you know, DVD and Blu-ray releases.

Like I said, there were some comic books at the time, just a three issue run from Marvel in 2006.

There was a crossover comic book series that was four issues and it was Darkman versus the Army of Darkness.

So it paired up Darkman with Ash from, from the the Evil Dead movies.

Makes sense.

There was of course a novelization and there was a, you know, a novelization of the movie in 1990.

And then in 94 they did a four novel miniseries.

So that's something there was a video game in 1991 for for a Nintendo, just an 8 bit video game.

And then there was a 1992 TV pilot.

Right.

Yeah, Also with Larry Drake, Christopher Bowen played Peyton Westlake slash Darkman Kathleen York as policewoman Jenny.

Interesting.

And then of course, we talked about the sequels, the return of Durant and Die Darkman Die and and you kind of mentioned the the situation there.

So, and this is according to Wikipedia, it says in April.

In an April 2022 interview, Neeson was asked if there if he would be interested in a hypothetical Darkman sequel.

He indicated that he would at least be willing to read the script that May, Raimi shared that Universal was considering a Darkman sequel and that a producer was attached to the project, but confessed his work on Doctor Strange and the Multiverse and Madness was keeping him too busy to learn anymore.

No official announcement has been made by the studio at any time.

So this leads me, Dan, to ask you, you know, the conversation is out there.

People are wondering if there's going to be something new with Darkman.

What would you do?

Well, I don't think I would do a sequel.

I thought about it and I don't, I, I, I don't think I would do a sequel right away.

I think that too much time has passed and I I, I, I don't want to skip over 35 plus years of I don't want to skip to septuagenarian Darkman.

Totally.

Yeah, I, I.

Well, and I will say this, yeah, I will say this, you know, Peyton theoretically is still all burnt up.

So Liam Neeson could be him six months later and still sound exactly the same.

And then if there was to be some sort of like, you know, de aging type of thing, it would the fact that it doesn't look 100% would kind of work with it so.

Yeah, that's, that's true.

I guess the I guess the whatever like AI digital de aging of Liam Neeson it it would look just like synthetic skin.

Could.

So, yeah, but I, I, I, I don't know, I guess I'm not as interested in a direct sequel.

I would be interested in seeing Raymie remake it and then potentially spin that into a franchise per or perhaps a series.

I think this is the type of thing that could work really well on Netflix could, could make for a a good streaming series.

And you know, you're following a formula.

It's you're not necessarily breaking new ground, but you're applying Darkman, you're applying that formula to the Darkman universe.

I I see, no, I have no issues in either like recasting the character of Peyton Westlake or making it a different character, but retelling the story and then continuing maybe the way that it, it could have been done 35 years ago, but that didn't happen.

So yeah, I feel like that would work.

Also, this is a very dramatic operatic and I don't think an opera is the way to go, but I do think a musical would be really interesting.

I think if you hit the right tone of a musical, which would be not quite as silly absurd as like the Toxic Avenger the musical or something like like Bat Boy the musical.

But you went somewhere between that and a Phantom of the Opera, a Darkman musical.

The the everything is set up.

Besides there's dancing, so you could have some really fun sequences.

I don't know how you do the I beams at the end of the Broadway.

You could certainly make it you you could make it work.

I mean Spiderman turn off the dark happened so clearly anything is.

And Despite that, I still think this would be.

A better man.

Turn off the dark man Spider man Sam Raimi.

Turn on the Darkman, turn off the Spider Man.

In terms of the musical, yeah, no, nothing that happened with that should be repeated.

But using using the the inspiration of taking a Phantom of the Opera and then some of those other the cultier musicals, finding some middle ground.

I think it's set up well for it.

I think Peyton Westlake makes for a great I mean, I think of Jekyll and Hyde, the musical, right, right.

Not one of the best things ever, but it it made money, ran for several years.

So it happened.

I was like, yeah, so those are my two things.

Is either a a Raimi headed or produced.

I know Raimi's got his own, his production company and it it's really meant to like foster younger artists.

I know like, you know, the Evil Dead remakes were kind of like that was part of that mission and helping support and and nurture, you know, newer film makers.

So why not?

I want him involved, but like, I don't need anybody else from the original.

I mean, Larry Drake passed away several years ago.

Right.

Yeah.

I don't think that, Frances.

Mcdormand makes any sense in that world anymore.

No, no, no.

Start a new start a new but.

And the one thing I worry about is that it would be too like glossy.

Like part of the fun of this is it has that like kind of low budget feeling about it.

But that, yeah, that that's that.

I think that's what I'd like to see.

John, what?

What about you?

Yeah, I think that a remake where Sam Raimi is at the very least heavily involved would be, would be pretty great.

I mean, thinking about his work with Doctor Strange, I wouldn't mind seeing like a Benedict Cumberbatch Darkman.

I think that he would be kind of awesome.

Although I don't know if that's too similar to Doctor Strange as being a, a Doctor Who gets, you know, mangled and has to have this like Second Life as a as a superhero.

But anyway.

I feel like the characters are different enough.

I I could.

There's also many other actors who could play the role, but no.

Oh, there's.

Many other actors.

I was just thinking of people who would be good.

Cumberbatch would be an awesome Darkman.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I, I do think that just a, a, a remake would be sufficient and it's definitely been enough time and it wouldn't take anything away from the original.

And I, I feel like kind of the way that movies are going right now, this is the kind of movie that people would be really into.

And the if you still, you know, keep a lot of the same elements where it's just like, yeah, growing synthetic skin, it's it's still something that people are trying to figure out and and really crack.

And so that element works really well.

Now, I don't necessarily think that the same type of like, you know, romantic story structure makes sense or that the villain of Durant or the real estate guy, like they necessarily need to be part of it.

But there are so many different things that you can do.

You're good, yeah, but no, the ad campaign is a must for me.

Yeah.

Like I want to see the same.

Dark man.

Like don't you don't need to spend money on anything, just use the same ones.

Totally.

Yeah, just use the same ones.

I like it.

Yeah, well, if you all out there have ideas on how you would want to bring back Darkman, e-mail us Ruined Childhoods, pod@gmail.com.

Check out Ruined Childhoods pod.com for a lot of fun stuff.

Rate and review us on your favorite podcast app.

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Always, always a lot of fun to, to to record these episodes and we hope that you have fun listening to them.

And on that we are in the in the home stretch for our current season where we are going up and down the alphabet alphabetically.

Dan, you look like you're about to say something important.

Well, yeah, cuz I want to add in also if if you're checking, if you're checking out the episodes, but you haven't seen the movies also, you know, hope you're checking out the movies.

Yeah, I don't think there's any that we've said no, absolutely don't check this out, but especially with with Darkman.

Especially with Darkman and I also will say our next movie is no exception.

No exception to the rule at all, because our next movie is 1995's Copycat, directed by John Emil, starring Sigourney Weaver, Holly Hunter, Dermot Mulroney, Harry Connick, Junior, Will Patton and yeah, and others and and others.

But it's a, you know, super 90s thriller here.

Copycat.

It's so much fun.

I I love watching this movie over and over again.

It's kind of like, it's like, wow, I can't believe that Holly Hunter did this movie, but I'm so glad she did.

It is.

There's so many things that I'm looking forward to saying about this movie about.

We will say in the past.

And I am so excited to talk about it on our next episode.

Yeah, well, Dan, as you are plummeting, I, I don't know, 80 stories off of a steel i-beam because you've slipped.

I wish you a good journey, Good journey.