What's still a long way talk?

Not if we take the shortcut through Diablo Pass.

Diablo, pass that Sioux territory.

Jesse, we go up through there, we're not going to have no help, no soldiers squeaking into trouble.

Redman ain't got no problem with the black man.

No.

As for you, white boy, that's a whole different story.

I mean, first you enslaved the black man.

It's split the yellow man, and then you kill off Redman so you can snatch his land, railroads and such.

Can I get a witness?

Amen.

Well, if I may approach the bench, Your honor, first of all, I ain't never personally enslaved nobody.

Sometime you can kiss my white ass.

Second of all, if there was a train coming through here on these tracks right now, I'd be on it and you'd be on it, except the only difference would be I'd be gambling on it and you'd be fetching my chips like a little houseboy because you can't even cheat right now.

Can I get a witness?

Thank you.

Amen.

Jessica.

Can I kill the crocodile?

Why don't you let the Indians get him?

Let's move out.

Her Monday remake of Matthew Fonz layer kicker Coen brothers send up with Timothy shall amaze I say to sing came prequel a midnight cowboy sequel Alvin and the chip monsters every another squeak.

There's so many new ways to revisit sideways photographic novel is how we choose to update, but we still hold fast.

You can't change the past on the Ruined Childhoods podcast.

On Ruined Childhood's episode 271, we covered the Brian De Palma musical thrillomity Phantom of the Paradise, which may have the best tagline of all time.

He sold his soul for Rock'n'roll.

However, since there is no award for Best tagline, we have to stick with the standard rundown of movie accolades.

In fact, the only awards that Phantom of the Paradise was nominated for were the Academy Award and Golden Globe for Best Original Score.

Since 1947, the Hollywood Foreign Press Association has distributed the Golden Globe for Best Original Score to the film world's most talented musical artists.

Since he is a seasoned film composer, to learn that John Williams has the most Golden Globe noms at 24 should be no surprise.

But there are a few popular recording artists that broke through and scored nominations and wins in this esteemed category.

Burt Bacharach won in 1969 for Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid.

Neil Diamond won in 1973 for Jonathan Livingston Siegel.

Even Dudley Moore was nominated in 1982 for Six weeks, though he lost to John Williams for ET.

But in 1971, popular recording artist Isaac Hayes broke through with his score for the 1971 Gordon Park's blaxploitation classic Shaft.

Born in Covington, TN in 1942, Isaac Hay's talents were recognized early, leading to a fruitful career as a songwriter, producer, and session musician for Stax Records.

His first hit was Soul Man, written for recording artists Sam and Dave, and is credited as one of the most influential songs by the Grammy Hall of Fame.

But between his early recording career and later in life turn as a Scientology nut, he caught the acting bug appearing in films like Escape From New York, I'm Going to Get You Sucka, Robin Hood, Men in Tights, It Could Happen To You, Reindeer Games, South Park and this week's film Greeting Starfighters.

This is Ruined Childhoods.

I'm John, and gabbing with me, as always, is my brother Dan.

And for Episode 292, we're talking about the 1993 Western classic Posse, whose tagline The Untold Story of the Wild West has a lot to be desired.

Dan, let's get this out of the way.

We grew up in the part of the world that might pronounce his name Mario Van Peebles, but he pronounces it Mario Van Peebles.

Do we need to practice abandoning our instincts?

I if it I apologize in advance if it happens.

I it, it happened at as I was introducing the film and saying his name at the end of our last episode.

I remember and I, because I remember kind of like watching my foot go into the, the pile of crap there.

And, and, and just like it's too late to withdraw it, but I could do a quick like, you know, I'm not going to get ankle deep.

So it it was like a Mario Mario Van Peebles.

Yeah, it's, it's one of those things where it's like, OK, the way that we say the name is regionally specific, but in this case, it's like, OK, well, how does the person themselves say it?

And I wanted to make sure to like, go back into interviews just to verify.

No.

And, and, and Mario Van Peebles is not from the East Coast of the United States.

He was actually born in Mexico, but I'm sure he grew up in like LA.

Yeah, yeah.

I mean, you know, father, you know, famous filmmaker Melvin Van Peebles.

No, no question on how to pronounce that.

But I do often feel like when I when I make the mat slip that I have to say like, no, we had I'm like, no, I grew up in suburban New Jersey and we had Italian American neighbors whose son pronounced his name.

I like unless they at some point they just said just go with it.

But but like it Mario, That's right.

What I how I remember hearing it.

Yeah, I feel like if there is a Mario, Mario situation out in the wild, I default to Mario, right?

Just as a precaution, because the odds are it's a Mario.

It's a Mario.

It's a Mario.

I feel like.

I feel like I am less likely to be corrected.

I feel like I'm on the safer side of things and I.

Mario is the least, you know, elegant way of saying it, so yeah.

Yeah, right.

But you know, all due respect, I'm sure there are elegant Mario's out there.

So.

And you know what?

Hey, we see you, Mario's and Mario's alike.

If you are listening, please chime in.

Let us know how you pronounce your name.

e-mail us.

Ruin child.

That's wow.

I wonder like could we, it would be great if we could put a poll out there and kind of see the percentages and see the the vote like.

When this episode comes out, we are doing that.

We are going to create a clip that we put out with a pole.

Mario with as or Mario?

Oh no, no.

Mario with HS, Mario with AS.

We'll get some help on the on the phonetics there, absolutely.

And make sure that that's that, that's straight up.

But I mean, and you know, how many people do you think have pronounced mispronounced his last name and called him like Van Pebbles?

Or, I suppose, Mario Van Peebles.

Peble.

I don't know that you'd I think the S would be silent.

If you're going all that way to the Peble, it would be Peble.

I mean, Van Peebles is such a distinct name.

Yes, it's like you don't forget a Van Peebles.

No, it's yeah, I mean, most likely wondering like, yeah, I've never encountered any others.

I I've never actually encountered Melvin or Mario, but you know, through the through film, I have Mario who who actually played him in the the docudrama about the making of what was it sweet Sweetback's badass song.

So Mario Van Peebles made the film bad ass about that and he plays his his father in it and like it's a really the strong resemblance.

The two of them, and I haven't done much research, but they must have had a very unique relationship because I believe that Mario Mcpeele's like first on screen performance was in the film directed by his dad and I think that there was like a full on sex scene that he was.

Yeah, it was.

It was like it was sweet Sweetback's badass song, right?

Yeah.

He plays like a young, I think he plays a young version of his father.

So wait, so in the movie where he's playing his dad in the about the making of this, who plays Mario Van Peebles?

I know he has kids who I know that at least one of his sons is an actor, Mandela Van Peebles.

Yeah, so let.

And he was in badass.

Let me.

OK, well.

Please tell me he was playing a young.

And Mandela Van Peebles plays Angel Muse in badass, so I don't know.

OK, so so perhaps not.

Well, no matter what, the Van Peebles family dynasty, super, super talented guys and I really appreciate the work that they've put out there.

Very.

Independent, like focused and very much like they they do.

Especially Melvin who I I I never saw a sweet Sweetback's badass song, but I did see Watermelon Man.

Which is.

Classic.

Oh yeah, quite, quite the satire.

But yeah, I've never.

And then for for Mario Van Peebles.

Mario.

Oh, damn it, you know, 'cause you know why 'cause I'm, I'm, I'm looking at the Google and I'm not thinking so.

But in our first introduction to him, my first introduction in life, but also I think on this podcast, would be his role in Jaws, the Revenge.

Right, we haven't covered Jaws the Revenge.

We.

But did we?

Yes, we did.

We did a whole Jaws episode.

We definitely talked.

About We didn't like, we didn't do an episode on Jaws the Revenge.

But we definitely but we we I remember I remember because watching jaws the revenge that on that go around gave me my theory that the that Ellen Brody and the sharks are psych psychically connected.

Yes right.

So yeah, anyway, but, and while we're talking about the Van Peebles cinematic legacy, this this is the follow up.

So this is the second film directed by Mario Van Peebles.

The first film directed by Mario Van Peebles.

Big hit when I was in 8th grade and going into high school and I didn't see it in the theater, but saw it.

I taped it off HBO and watched it had the soundtrack New Jack City.

If I remember correctly, has a pretty awesome soundtrack.

As it's got that colour me bad, I want to sex you up, it's got Ice T new Jack Hustler on there.

Ice T for sure.

Yeah, there's some, some Queen Latifah on on there.

Oh, it's, I mean like in terms of that, like, I mean, it's new Jack music like that hip hop, right.

That's that era of hip hop.

The new Jack City soundtrack is.

You know, and I really wanted to watch New Jack City in preparation for this episode, but unfortunately I could didn't track down a copy of it, but I it's one where it's just like as soon as I can watch it, I'm going to.

Worth going back to in my opinion, and this is I, I rewatched it within the last, let's say maybe five years and I remember on my original viewing I felt that Chris Rock was Oscar worthy and I came back to it and said, well, was IA bit naive at the time.

And no, I don't think I was Chris.

Chris Rock is fantastic, fantastic.

It new Jack City's amazing movie.

Wesley Snipes.

It's like just one of his iconic performances as Nino Brown.

Totally, Yeah.

Mario Van Peebles, of course, playing the He's got a posse in that as well.

With love a good posse.

With with with one white guy.

It's Judd Nelson in New Jack City.

What a yeah, interesting.

Judd Nelson and Stephen Baldwin as being your you know, your token.

Wise, yeah, yeah, token white good guys.

Although yeah, the villains in in New Jack City are.

But there's also what I loved about New Jack City was that, and it's the same with Posse is that there is that social commentary mixed in with the entertainment and the entertainment in both on on both films definitely can go in that like, you know, this is this is a movie meant to be enjoyed.

Even though they both tackle serious topics.

New Jack City perhaps more even more so with the drug crack epidemic.

Yeah, well, I mean, I learned a lot from watching Posse.

And there were there were also things that like I had heard before but was like reminded of in posse such as like the grandfather clause.

And I'm pretty sure that's where the term being grandfathered in comes from, which is one of those like, you know, seek, not secretly, but like, you know, accident.

It's a racist term that has kind of just become common.

It's kind of flipped because they they got grandfathered out, their grandfathered out.

Their grandfathered out, I guess.

Yeah, their their grandfathered into the explosion, right?

Yeah, yeah.

I mean, look, we're talking about this movie takes place in 1898.

We know even in in 2025, we haven't exactly, you know, mastered race relations though, you know, yeah.

It's.

So what's, what's really cool about this movie is it's first of all, it's relevance.

It's kind of acknowledgement in responsibility.

And that's kind of a Van Peebles thing is like, we're going to make entertainment, but it has to be socially responsible and like people need to.

It's basically like white people are going to watch like not just white people, sorry, that is the wrong thing to say there, but just broad audience people, No, people are going to watch this who do not know this history, right.

And this is something that I, I maybe it's the time, maybe it's the place, maybe it's everything.

But like, I think about the history that we learned growing up in our, you know, New Jersey public education and how limited it is in its scope and how misrepresentative it is.

And in some cases false.

But it was just kind of like, this is what you learned.

And now it's, you know, like Howard Zinn's A People's History of the United States.

And like a lot of research that's just been that's come to the surface.

It's always been out there, but it's been brought to the surface and saying like, yeah, no, no, no, this is what actually happened.

And this is not, it's not to say like, oh, we need to feel like we're responsible for that.

But you got, you need to know because it it all ties together, right?

It's all one story.

Yeah, in addition to the, I guess this history of, you know, people who are black in the in the Wild West, that's that's one element to it.

But there are also certain other things that were kind of like new to me that weren't just created for the movie, you know, such as like, and I know you'll get into a synopsis pretty soon, but Billy Zane's character, Colonel Graham, you know, he was leading this group of soldiers who were, you know, they were they were convicts.

They were sentenced to serving in the military, and that was his group.

So it's like he has this group of, you know, wayward people who aren't signed up to do this.

They're sentenced to do this.

And so that was a real thing.

Well, yeah.

And it, it kind of connects not, not to go on a, you know, history lesson here.

It connects to the, you know, the clause in the 13th Amendment that says that no, you know, no one is going, it's not legal to hold anyone as a slave unless they are convicted criminal, which kind of and the, and the timing works out really interestingly, where you see a lot of new crimes being defined around that time that, that were kind of based on the behaviors of people who are freed from enslavement.

And then it's kind of like, you know, you referenced South Park before and in particular the, the South Park movie bigger, longer and uncut with when Isaac Hayes's character, they talk about, you know, they're, they're going to war and they're going to send the black soldiers in first.

And it's very much the same here where it's well, here we we've got warring to be done and it's let's hey, why not just send these people that we don't really consider human anyway, But they can still carry a gun and they can still shoot the enemy and totally and they they don't care.

No one's worrying about who's going to tell, you know, a Bobo's mom that he was, you know, killed in action to one of the men in the bossy there.

So.

Tiny Lister.

Yeah, yeah, Zeus.

Always great to see Tiny Lister.

Absolutely.

What a great look.

Yeah, great look.

And, and really he he knew how to do what he what he is he still with us?

We lost him in 2020, yeah.

So he knew how to do what he could do really well.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

So, but yeah, no, there's a lot of history here.

There's a lot of, I don't remember, I don't think they actually use.

Do they use the term Buffalo Soldiers in the film?

You know, I don't recall, I don't explicitly remember hearing it spoken, but.

But like, you know, that's a term that you know, a lot of a lot of people probably learn it from the Bob Marley song.

But.

How I did a lot of people, you know, probably don't know exactly like who are Buffalo Soldiers, why they were called Buffalo Soldiers.

Or in fact, that the the 10th Calvary Regiment, which is the the regiment that you know, Colonel Graham, that Colonel Graham is, is in charge of was like that was the first group of Buffalo Soldiers.

Well.

Then why don't you give a little synopsis and then we'll really get into the weeds on this.

Here we go.

During the Spanish American War, a platoon of soldiers from the US Army's 10th Cavalry Regiment is sent behind enemy lines to intercept a shipment of gold.

When the soldiers, all black with the exception of one, realize that they're sadistically racist, commanding officer Colonel Graham intends to betray them.

They escape with the gold to the North American frontier.

The men, Angel A Bobo, Weezy and Little Jay, along with New Orleans gambler Father Time, follow their platoon leader, the enigmatic Jesse Lee, as he journeys towards Freemanville, an all black town founded by Jesse's father who was ruthlessly murdered years earlier by white supremacists as the town's construction was just beginning.

What Jesse's men soon learn is that he is on a mission not of escape, but of justice, planning to hunt down and kill every last one of the men responsible for his father's death.

Pursued by Colonel Graham and awaited by the sinister Sheriff Bates, Jesse and the remaining members of his posse prepared to take their vengeances or die trying.

As Jesse Lee, we've got Mario Van Peebles.

As Angel, we've got Tom Loke.

As a Bobo, we have the aforementioned Tiny, Tiny Lister as Little J, Stephen Baldwin, Big Daddy Kane playing Father Time.

We've got Colonel as as Colonel Graham, the wonderful Billy Zane, Stephen Stephen Baldwin as Little Jay.

We got Richard Jordan who's great playing Sheriff Bates.

And then we've got some in in some supporting roles, some really big names.

The movie starts off as a flashback being recounted by Woody Strode, who fans of the John Ford westerns would recognize.

He was part of John Ford's and a company.

He was a John Ford devotee.

Was was Woody Strode.

You've got Nipsey Russell who who who pops up there?

Who makes an appearance?

00 is the 2 reporters interviewing who are interviewing Woody Strode.

You've got the film makers Reginald and Warrington Hudlin who made Menace to Society, which came out.

I think that that same, yeah, I mean made other films as well, but that was what put them on on the map.

We've got Reginald Val Johnson, Sergeant Al Powell.

Yes, playing a the town Barber and he chose to play it gay.

He very clearly chose to play it gay, which is interesting and which was just like, you know, it's I mean it's never brought up, but like his affectations.

He calls some, he calls people like bitch and stuff like that.

And you know, it's, it's a choice.

It's a choice.

It's it's 1993, all right.

We got Pam Grier, who is just like I.

That's one of the things about the movie.

2 lines.

It was that that kind of I, I couldn't, I didn't remember how much she was in it, but at like, since the last time I saw this movie, I've become a much bigger fan of Pam Grier's.

So it was.

What's also funny is that like in like, if you search for it on certain things, like the image that pops up is Pam Grier in it and it's like she's hardly in this thing.

Yeah, Yeah, well, I mean, it's like how you look up the movie Quadrophenia and whose image pops up.

Sting, Sting.

Yeah.

So we've got a trend going here, all right?

Yeah.

As you already mentioned, Isaac Hayes is is you're.

Missing one major.

One well, I'm not done.

I'm I'm going I.

Know, but I feel like you're searching around a little bit but there's like 1 character who's not like a a bit role but Blair Underwood.

No, I'm coming back to Blair Underwood.

OK, OK, I'm coming back there.

He's the and he's the because I wanted to to pop, to throw just like a couple of these other names in there, like Paul Bartel, like, yeah, you know, indie film legend who kind of always plays every character the same way.

But totally.

Yeah, He's he's he's great in there.

Yeah.

Aaron Neville, you hear him and you know instantly it's it's Aaron Neville Charles Lane, who's not as big no of much as well like known in terms of his name, but like you'd recognize him and he.

Plays a a, you know, a core posse member.

His yeah, no, he's one that's easy.

He's like, yeah, he'd be like third build, of course.

Melvin Van Van Peebles and and then, yeah, Blair Underwood, LA Law, who I think at this point, like really LA Law and, you know, maybe.

Oh, right.

Crush groove.

He was kind of, he was no.

Oh, he's from Tacoma, WA.

Is he really?

I did not.

I really like him.

Did not like him a lot.

He's, you know, he really works for this type of role because of how like kind of smooth he he can be.

And it's really nice when the smoothness is played as like villain villainously.

Right and you know what I I feel like this is just a pre emptive.

Yeah, yeah.

Spoiled or alert?

And and just to say that like, you know, so many of these characters, it's like, you know, you think at certain points are OK and then you realize are bad.

I mean, him being, you know, basically the main one.

But I feel like the bad guys in this are so good at being bad guys.

And we also have like, so many different plots going on here.

And maybe it may be like 2 too many.

You know, we have what, what do you, what are you thinking?

Because we've got the whole Colonel Graham thing.

And like, you know, recovering the gold that they that they took from him after they got away.

You know, we have the whole thing about Blair Underwood's character buying back the I mean, and this was like a a real thing that I that I learned about from posse.

But, you know, buying the land back from black land owners and and it so that they can participate in this actual program, which was, you know, I think it was like the back to Africa program, but they were going back to Africa.

Marcus Garvey.

Yeah, And there's, there's the whole, I mean the the sheriff of is it Cutterstown?

Yep.

You know who's I mean?

Great bad guy.

Yeah.

Oh yeah.

Richard Jordan.

Richard Jordan.

Oh my God, such a good.

Guy fantastic, yeah.

And then, of course, you have the revenge storyline.

You know, there Freemanville, you know, faced this very traumatic incident by the KKK where, you know, they burned down the school that they were building and killed Jesse's father.

And of course, he is on a revenge mission in addition to all of the other things that they're doing against these these men that were in the KKK.

And of course, they showed their faces.

And he remembers them all very vividly in these flashbacks that we have.

And then there is also the storyline of the little boy who is recovered and tells the story.

And, you know, another spoiler alert, but it's who cares, kind of a spoiler.

It's like this little boy is the person in the book ending the film telling the story, which I understand that.

Like, you know, he comes into it maybe halfway through, maybe even more than halfway through, but he's like recounting the tale of all of these people.

And there's also flashbacks for one character.

And I guess he's getting all this information from stories written in that little Silver book.

Yeah.

That he has.

Yeah.

So to have flashbacks like, you know, trauma dream sequences for one character being told through another character who shows up at different moments, I don't know.

That part didn't necessarily work for me.

So that's where I think the Van Peebles messaging comes in.

It's it's kind of like there's the agenda, like, all right, we we got to tell a good story.

We're going to make a Western, we're going to feature black people.

We are going to and then we're going to also educate people.

And we are also going.

So like, it's kind of all right.

What for audiences who never knew about this, learn about it for like so for and then for black audiences specifically, like understand, appreciate, know your history, know your culture and understand the importance of preservation and preserving those stories as like the stories of marginalized people in general, because they are not the first ones to be told, as evidenced by the the existence and messaging of this film.

And even in the the title track, you know, posse shoot them up, there's some audio, there's an exchange at the beginning between what seems to be like a father and a son and the kids watching, you know, you hear the audio of like an old Western on TV and the father's like, this isn't what the Wild West was like.

There's no black people.

Yeah, and honestly, I feel like this movie was made at just the right time.

I mean, there was definitely a huge resurgence of Westerns at that time.

And, and, and also like different twists on Westerns and, and you know, with movies like young guns, which of course is taking actual people and, and doing a different spin on it.

But like, it was really hip to do a Western.

I mean, then of course there's a, you know, Tombstone Wyatt Earp.

Unforgiven won the Oscar like right around the time this was released 'cause this was, I want to say like March 93.

Is that my total?

Let's see release date May 14th, 93.

OK, so May 14th, 93 So we're within like 2 months of Unforgiven winning the the Oscar for Best Picture You've got.

And right like Young Guns, Young Guns and actually Young Guns too.

It feels like it has a little bit more of its fingerprints on this, especially with the storytelling device.

Although in Young Guns too, it it's meant to be like that.

It's Billy the Kid telling, telling the story.

Check out the Young Guns episode for more on that.

God Emilio Estevez so not right for that role.

But whatever.

But also perfect so.

Yeah, I guess.

Perfect.

Not not right for that role, but perfect for that movie, Yes, so.

Yeah.

You've got so, so I think so I think that that's where and and right, that book ending is where it really, if you, if you start asking questions and you start thinking like, well, wait a second, how does this kid who came into the story halfway through know all of this?

How OK, we're supposed to make some pretty big leaps.

But it's also like that message is there to show like, hey, it's 1993.

There are very few people around who were alive to witness this history.

It's important to document their stories.

Yeah.

And I also feel like this movie is in some ways a response to glory, which is just like, oh, it's the story.

You know, it's a story about, you know, the people who are black who fought in the Civil War, but it's really a story about Matthew Broderick and, you know, the white perspective as told by, you know, in in a director who was not black.

So I mean, I feel like this is Mario von people saying like, oh, like I I I see what's going on, but I kind of want to do it the right.

Way also important.

So first of all, mentioning glory and I haven't seen glory in in a long time and glory really made, you know, Gabe Denzel Washington, his first Oscar and really helped establish Morgan Freeman and Denzel Washington as as stars.

So haven't seen it in a long time, though it's interesting Glory comes out in 1989 right alongside Driving Miss Daisy.

Yeah.

No, it's definitely a lot of that, you know, bringing, bringing your white audience in with, with these stories and these other actors and characters who are recognizable from things.

And then, well, it's it, you know?

Yeah, it's telling these story.

It it's, it's telling these stories with the expectation that you have to have a sympathetic white character that your white audience members can look at and say, that's who I am in this equation.

I'm not.

And our only sympathetic white character in this is Stephen Baldwin, right?

Who?

Basically, who's like a dirtbag.

He doesn't give a shit about any like, yeah, he's like the other the the Madam who says, you know, the only of the only color we're concerned with here is is green.

And but Stephen and Stephen Baldwin is in there, I think for a similar reason, but more to just show that like some white people were were just assholes.

They weren't not necessarily racist racist, they were just kind of assholes like they they they kind of treated everyone the same.

So yeah, but but he's in there.

Also the another movie that this comes out like it it that looms over this movie but also elevates this movie is Malcolm X.

Totally.

Right.

And I mean, Spike Lee in general as a like becoming a mainstream filmmaker coming from very, you know, independent, I mean, yeah, he studied it at NYU.

But his films, you know, she's got to have it, especially having a very, you know, independent spirit.

And Spike Lee, very much a filmmaker who told stories the way that that he saw them and felt others should see them, still does do this.

I can't wait to see his new one, by the way.

Yeah, it seems like they're going, it seems like a it's a Spike Lee Denzel kind of not not like an inside man re up, but like they're looking to do a story in that vein.

Yeah, and I don't, I, I'm saying this based on nothing, just conjecture, but there's something about it that feels to me like perhaps Mario Van Peebles was encouraged or like driven by somebody like Spike Lee, who is kind of like the new voice that's coming in into like black independent cinema.

And I'm wondering if there was some sort of like, you know, I'm the rightful heir to to be doing this.

And so he and of course, stylistic completely different, but you know, comes in with the new Jack City and then now a completely different.

I mean, I'm trying to think about like Spike Lee's work and if anything goes into like historical.

If Spike Lee did any his I'm well, you've got well, Miracle at Saint Anna is probably not the first Spike Lee movie to pop into people's minds, but you've got I mean, so like in terms of Spike Lee's historical takes.

Or like period.

Piece like a period piece directed by Spike Lee, like Crooklyn, which takes place in the 70s, sixties.

Right.

So it's hard.

I mean, great movie.

It's that effect.

Summer of Sam.

Great movie.

Yeah.

I mean some.

Yeah.

Summer of Sam.

No miracle.

We talked about in the last episode.

Briefly, Miracle at Saint Anna would probably be, and I'm I'm just thinking off the top of my head here, of the Spike Lee filmography.

By the way, Malcolm XI guess would have been, you know, but I'm thinking.

Like black Klansmen?

Black Klansmen, right?

I mean parts of the $5.

Were in the 20th.

Were in the 20th century yeah No, no, Spike Lee has not done Spike Lee has not made a movie set in the antebellum S right or or or he is not Spike Lee has not made a western as as to the best of my recollection.

Yeah, I mean, looking through his filmography, there's so many that I, you know, either haven't seen or haven't given enough, you know, attention to.

What's on your Let's take?

We'll take a brief, brief detour here, because that Spike Lee is awesome.

Sorry, Mario, we're going to talk about Spike Lee for just.

For a moment and then we're going to bring it back and.

So she's got to have it.

School days do the right thing.

MO better Blues Jungle fever Malcolm X Crooklyn.

Man, look at the what are these?

What a great.

The ones you haven't seen.

No, no, no, no, no.

I'm just going through.

The phone last.

Yeah, I think that of all of those, I've seen all of those, I saw Crooklyn, I saw Clockers Girl Six, I've seen, I've not seen Get on the Bus.

I don't think I've.

Not seen get on the bus.

I want to see get on the bus.

Yeah, the Million Merit, the Million Man March movie, he got game.

I've seen.

Some of Sam I've seen Bamboozled I've seen.

25th Hour.

I've seen she hate me.

I don't remember if I've seen Anthony Mackie.

I've not seen she hate me, I also have.

Inside Man is fantastic.

Well, you're saying Miracle at Santa Ana.

Like yes, like you were saying that is most likely the most.

Red Hook summer period, I think is kind of like a crooklyny I I haven't I.

Haven't seen Red Hook summer, I did not see his old boy remake.

I didn't see Chira.

I've not seen the sweet blood of Jesus.

I started to watch a Chiraq.

Mm hmm, I have seen that one.

I like that one.

Black Klansman's great to five bloods and then highest to lowest.

I'm excited for that one.

Which I'm excited about.

But yeah.

Kurusawa.

Annotation, right?

Yeah, I mean, you know, always the film student is is Spike Lee and and the and the professor and the professor.

But so and the professor.

Absolutely.

I mean I I am looking.

For but that's and what school is like.

Spike does his thing and where Mario van Mario Van Peebles Mario where Mario van Peebles it, it doesn't feel like Spike.

I'm sure that Melvin Van Peebles influenced Spike Lee in in some way, shape or form.

A I'm.

Sure, yeah.

And I don't want to.

I don't want to say that there was any rivalry between them that.

Oh, no, no, no it.

Hasn't, but you know, I don't know about anything like.

That no, but if you think of like the two film makers who are bringing black stories to the mainstream and celebrating, celebrating black history, celebrating a like actually bringing stories to light about black history, it's it's Spike Lee and it's Mario Van Peebles.

Mario Van Peebles continues on this path.

He does Panther in 95.

Right.

And he plays Malcolm X in Ali.

Michael Mann's.

That's true.

Yeah.

So it does.

And it does feel like slightly different, like it feels like they're related MO's as film makers, but.

And also just what while we're talking about, you know, I guess predominantly 90s influential black directors, John Singleton needs to be mentioned as.

Well, and the Hudlins absolutely yes, John Singleton the because the did who did dead was that did the Hudlins do dead presidents?

Oh, I don't know.

Let me take a look.

Reginald Hudlin, Filmography Director, House Party Boomerang I Rhoden produced Baby's Kids, also featuring Tone Lowe.

Oh yeah.

Oh yeah.

Oh, no, no.

So.

The Great White Hype, The Ladies man serving Sarah Marshall, The Black Godfather, Safety Sydney and Candy Cane Lane.

So, OK, I'm sorry, I, I made it such a faux pas earlier and I feel like an, and like an asshole straight up because I said earlier that the Hudlins like directed menace to society.

That was the Hughes brothers, that was the Hughes brothers.

So like, man, I'm, I'm an asshole.

I, I, I spoke at it 'cause they also you.

Know it's a it's a team of of brother film makers.

They made dead presidents as a starting.

Well, the Hu you I can I I can make excuses, but ignorance?

Is, you know, the two of them, Menace to society, dead presidents, American Pen from Hell and the Book of Eli.

That's just directing.

Yeah.

And then Alan as a solo did a segment for New York, I Love You, Knights of the South Bronx, Broken City, Defiant Ones, Dear Mama, And then, oh, an untitled Snoop Dogg biopic.

And then Albert Hughes did Alpha, the Good Lord Bird and the Continental from the world of John Wick.

2 episodes of that.

So anyway, so coming back to posse I and you know, we just mentioned tone Loke.

I want to talk for a second about the cinematic works of tone Loke, who, Oh good, you know, burst onto the scene, of course, with wild thing and funky cold Medina.

Like what a what a great duo of songs.

First of all, great voice on.

This album and sing the whole thing like this, I'm going.

I love all the like.

It totally takes me back to that very specific time and place.

Absolutely.

And he has, he had a really interesting acting career as well.

You know, he had a pretty predominant role in Ace Ventura, as we mentioned, Baby's Kids, which I think was like the first movie that I experienced him in because I remember seeing that at a friend's birthday party.

We all went to went to go see Babies.

They don't die, they multiply.

They don't die, they multiply.

Robin Harris.

Fern Gully.

He was a very predominant role in Fern Gully.

Adventures of Ford Fairlane was his first movie.

Poetic Justice, which we just mentioned.

Surf Ninjas.

Yeah.

Ace Victoria Car 54 where RU blank.

Check Heat Spy, Hard Titan, AE Space Cowboys.

Yeah acted until, let's see, 24.

Oh no, they did.

Some in 2022 did a television voice for something called the Proud Family Louder and Proud, but otherwise, 2014 was essentially the at the end of the acting career.

He doesn't need to.

He's got, he's got those, you know, Funks, he's got.

That funky cold Medina money.

That Ace Ventura money.

The Ace Ventura money?

Yeah, maybe.

Maybe more so.

Let's get a quarter or two for for that year.

Yeah, perhaps.

But yeah, I I mean, just kind of going back to our completely stacked cast in oh, posse.

Lots of recording arts, Steven.

Big Daddy Kane.

Big Daddy Kane, who's I think is really good.

I feel like the Father Time character is like under you, you know?

Yeah.

And, and I feel like I had it been more thoughtfully done, like he could have been part of the initial posse where, you know, you know, he just had this thing where he had a cool pocket watch.

And so it's just like, people started calling me Father Time because I've got a cool pocket watch.

You know, It's like, it doesn't need to be like a whole thing.

Yeah, I don't know.

I met this kid and he noticed I had a pocket watch so he started calling me Father Time.

That's how nicknames are born.

And yeah, I mean, the character of Weezy I feel is I think you could have combined a few of these characters to kind of make them a little bit stronger and to kind of give in the movie a little bit more of a through line instead of having to take some time to just be like, OK, wait, so this character is seems like they're going to be a much bigger character.

And I'm thinking of Weezy specifically, but really doesn't do all that much more of an opportunist because he was, I think, you know, was he part of the colonel's crew and then his jump ship.

He was the Colonel's like like servant.

He was his Yeah, and he makes that Billy Zane.

Which man you know Billy Zane under appreciated we.

Not by me.

No, I know not by you, but when you watch his performance in this and you think about how like, you know, we're like, we talked about Phantom, that movie.

I think like Billy Zane.

I just feel like Hollywood didn't know what to do with Billy Zane.

And it it it's it's like it's unfortunate because you see him in movies like and he's perfectly fine and like Tombstone.

But imagine how much fun Billy Zane could have had with some of the other roles in Tombstone.

No, no, absolutely.

I mean, he's of course fantastic and Titanic we all love to hate.

Billy Zane in villain mode.

Wonderful.

Villain mode absolutely great.

He's also I love him in the movie CQ, the Roman Coppola movie.

He's he's so charming and plays it off for the he's great in the.

Zooland as himself the Zoolander listen.

To your friend Billy Zane, he's a cool dude.

What a great line.

It's like, it's like, yeah, Billy Zane is a cool.

Dude, and Billy Zane in that movie, it was so perfect.

Yeah.

Oh, what was the other?

Oh, oh, no, The moment that I had that made me just say, damn, Billy Zane, you're wonderful.

Maybe you can guess it.

And it's when he makes his big reappearance, when they're at the brothel in New Orleans and he's standing in the doorway with that costume on where it like he's like, he's frigging the Amadeus.

Yeah, well, it's it's Mardi Gras and he doesn't need to dress up.

No, but he does.

He does.

And he's holding the mask up and, and then he reveals and he's of course he's got, he has an eye patch 'cause he, you know, he's, you know, shot during, during the escape.

But it's so wonderful and he plays it up so well, but he's so evil.

And when he's when he's talking and he makes that terrible joke with with Weezy, then you just see, you know, Weezy so humiliated.

And so I feel like that's a character that again, it was kind of like in that list of ingredient ingredients, like, what do I need to have in this movie to represent the black experience in the Old West?

It's like, well, who were like, you know, these people who were like, you know, born into a life of of servitude and never given the idea that they could achieve something more, which is what Weezy recognizes.

And it also Weezy is in the movie to say the name of the movie in case you forget what movie.

He needs it because we're a posse.

He needs to do that 20 times.

Yeah, yeah.

Well, I mean, certainly Jesse's not going to say it.

He barely mutters 2 words at a time, you know, nor does he wear sleeves.

Nor does he wear sleeves.

I, you know, today I was, it was last night.

I was just like, oh, if I had thought about this sooner, I should have like tracked down a pair of suspenders and gone like shirtless with suspenders for the recording.

Because man, does Mario Van Peoples like to show off that hot bot of his.

I definitely so does Melvin Van Peeps 2.

Of them, man, I definitely feel like he definitely like worked on his arms and and that he went back and watched new Jack City and just saw himself in all of like the the shirt sleeves and and the trench coats and all that and said, I'm in the Old West where it's hot.

I am.

I'm showing up.

Like, you know, there's going to be guns in this movie.

There's going to be guns in this movie.

Yeah, absolutely.

And pecs as well.

And pecs up.

And also, you know, just talking more about Jesse.

Man, what a what a bummer of a guy to be around.

Unless you're out in a swimming hole with him, in which case it's the only time he smiles in the movie.

The two scenes when he is like swimming in a in a lake or whatever.

The The most hardened of men becomes softened children when they're at a swimming hole.

Yeah, no splashing around with his buddies in the buff.

Oh, he's loving.

It yeah, and they're all naked.

A Bobo when he's when when Wheezy is like just, you know, I don't know, odd aghast.

So OK I I listen to Bobo in the buff.

I listened to the the podcast episode on about posse from the action boys.

I, John Gabris past guest on the show Ben Rogers and Ryan Stanger, and they their observation on that was it's either really big, really small or really weird.

I know I.

Got the same my action and you know what, you know, did you kind of present yourself with the same?

Had you listened to that episode before you watched the movie?

After I watched the.

Movie, yeah, but I kind of thought that as well when I was watching and and definitely came to the conclusion that it's small.

Oh, I mean, the ambiguity of it really serves it in a, in a very satisfying way.

And what a what a fun scene in an otherwise, like really grim and dreary movie that's like that lacks fun, even though you have so many fun scenes, especially in in New Orleans when they're at that brothel and everything.

It's just like, this should be fun.

But like, I'm just so bummed out about all of this.

Well, yeah, because you've got the the Jesse Lee flashbacks and.

He's such, well, I mean rightfully so, but he is a sad sack and it isn't until he's splashed on with his buddies or after he like reconnects with Lana, you know the.

Splashes around with.

Women from his yeah, woman from his past and.

Who plays the daughter of the character played by his father?

Yeah, right.

Although it's funny, I I read that she said something about, you know, doing the sex scene and said that the one nice thing about him playing the part and also being the director was that there was 1 less man in the room.

Oh totally, yeah.

I, I, I can't imagine there was much of in the way of intimacy coordination at the time and especially knowing, you know how you know where Mario Van Pibbles learned to shoot sex scenes, you know, at a time when there wasn't a lot of I guess my Marie going on, it was all things were pretty much really happening.

So.

It is an artfully.

It is a well, it is a the Old West did not have such nice lighting, such artful.

Most certainly not studio lighting.

If I remember, there were a lot of candles in that scene, which is just like, who's taking the time to light all these candles?

Also, for somebody who's having all these flashbacks about like torches being thrown in his face, he's around fire a lot in this movie and it's totally fine.

Yeah, well, it's sexy fire when it's sexy fire.

But but in addition to the sexy fire, but like there's a moment where he's having one of his like little fever dreams where he's like sleeping with his gun in his hand and like the his friends, I've got like a little campfire going on like 5 feet away from him.

So you would think that that might be a little bit triggering for him to the point where he might be like, you know, I'm going to actually move my remove myself from this situation.

But he doesn't have that.

But there's not that awareness.

We don't have coping techniques in the Old West.

He's not like, no, but like.

You think that he would be afraid of the fire a little bit to the point where he'd be like, I'm just going to move a little, a little boys back there, but.

I, I, I wonder if it's one of those like repelled by it and drawn to it things where it's like, you know, it's, it's, it fuels, it's my pain and my power.

Yeah, yeah.

I'm saying absolutely.

Maybe I, I, we could, we could certainly talk way more about every single aspect of this movie.

There's no need to really go into like every single detail because there are so many things that happened in this and we haven't even really touched too much on what happens when they get to Freemanville.

But it's it's satisfying.

There is great action set pieces.

There's a Gatling gun.

We all love that.

It's kind of like the the convergence of a few different plot lines all at the same time.

And you're all you just want is for Jesse to win, whatever that means.

And the the deaths of of the Colonel, totally satisfying the death of the sheriff, the KKK guy, I mean, slightly satisfying.

It seemed like at a certain point there was like, we got to wrap up this movie.

So let's just like get.

A lot of well, and it and it's one of those things where when you come to the end of of a movie where there's more than one like good guy, it's OK.

Who does the main protagonist need to kill?

And also, may I add we, we have another, you know, coming 2 episodes after The Rock where we have a wonderful villain impaling.

We have another wonderful villain impaling here in this movie with absolutely.

And I do so coming back to the idea of, of the storylines coming together, I, so I, I didn't feel as overwhelmed by all the storylines.

And there are.

There are a lot of threads, but it felt like they all fueled each other and that they all served a purpose.

Yeah, I think that I OK, clearly I could have done without the whole, you know, rescuing the little kid who ends up being the one to tell the story.

Like, I would have been fine without that.

I didn't really need that.

And, and to remove something like that, it's like pruning a tree.

It's like shaving off that lets the other ones flourish.

And, and I, I think that like if, if I had to prioritize what I would, you know, pare down, that would be the first thing to go.

Because like, OK, the vengeance thing, it totally makes sense.

It totally works.

Everything with the kernel is really fun because it's like there's there isn't just one villain and the two villains are very different from each other and don't have any connection with each other whatsoever.

And I for there to be this kind of final climactic scene where, oh shit, it's happening.

That all works for.

Me well and you have to have what I like about that setup is that you have you have the big baddie that that Jesse is coming for.

Right.

That I guess that was just kind of on his To Do List like I'm going to finish up the army.

I I don't think starting a feud with Colonel Graham was on the agenda, whereas getting his revenge on on the clan and Sheriff Bates was on the agenda.

But then you have those stakes added of Colonel Graham.

You also have wonderful sequences, the horses leaping out of the the train car in, I would say in New Orleans.

Great, great stunts.

There's an awesome stunt where it's like, it's clearly Mario Van Peebles, like jumping onto a running horse.

Yeah.

I was like, damn, that's awesome, that's definitely him and he nailed.

You also have to have that like last moment because Weezy does make that like last ditch attempt to like get back on the colonel's good side, but realizes it's not going to happen.

So you need Weezy to you have that moment to make his choice.

So I think the, you know, so I like having that set up where you've got your sheriff and the the Cuttersville Klansmen there just got to do in their thing.

And then you've got Jesse being pursued by Colonel Graham, who's out both to get the gold back, but also to avenge.

So he's out for some vengeance for his eye totally, and for also like for being humiliated.

Yeah, absolutely his.

Pride.

It's I think what's more important is like you said, like, you know, there, this was a real, you know, historical thing where you'd put the, you know, the, the name, like you know, the property in the name of one person.

And the the scheme between Carver and Bates was the love triangle because Carver is now with Lana.

Lana yeah, we haven't talked about that part.

Right.

Yeah.

Because if there's if there's maybe one other storyline that feels unnecessary.

It's this love triangle, though.

It it, it fuels the tension between Carver and Jesse, who I guess had been had been friends.

Yeah.

I mean, honestly, it's like, yeah, well, Jesse was gone.

So like, what are you supposed to do?

Just kind of sit around and wait?

And Lana was like, not cool with Jesse initially when he came back.

Like, she was just like, you know what?

You disappeared.

He may have been wearing a shirt at that point though.

He was wearing a shirt at that point.

And then of course, then she's just like, you know what?

Screw it, Yolo, let's do this.

And yeah.

And Carver was, like, fully aware of it.

He's just like, yeah, I know that you were, you were with each other last.

Night.

Whatever.

Yeah, no, with, with, yeah.

And with Carver, it's, I think what's more important is like you said, like, you know, there, this was a real, you know, historical thing where you'd put the, you know, the, the name, like, you know, the property in the name of one person and the, the scheme between Carver and Bates.

Was.

I think that's a more.

Again, I don't know if it's necessary.

Bates being the sheriff.

Yes, Sheriff Bates of Cutterstown, Yeah.

There's so many characters and different parts that I feel like it just requires, you know, the reminder of who people.

Are and Sheriff Bates the cutters?

Carver's the Sheriff of Freemanville and Bates is the sheriff of Cutterstown where and he he has a kind of a Harris Yulin look to him.

Was man Harris Yulin?

Yeah, he does have a Harris Yulin look to him.

I forget what is, says Richard Jordan, who I believe passed away.

It must have been shortly.

Yeah.

It was August 30th.

93 is when he passed away.

56 years old.

Lost him young.

He's got this, this great look to him.

You're right.

There is something Harris Yuliny about him.

You know, if we decide to do night moves at any point, we have a fantastic shirtless Harris Yulin in that one.

Looking like a snack.

A hairy little snack.

Yeah, he's fantastic.

Richard Jordan also, who we remember from The Secret of My Success.

Yeah.

That's right.

Yeah, we yeah, we did that not very many episodes ago.

Logan's run, old boy.

Have you ever seen old boyfriends?

No, I haven't.

With Talia Shire.

No.

Oh, it's so.

Good check that.

One all right hunt for in October, Gettysburg.

I wasn't aware Talia Shire existed outside of the Coppola family.

Rocky franchise and Godfather franchise.

You know Old Boyfriends When is from 79?

Joan Tewksbury, written by Paul Schrader and Leonard Schrader.

It's really great.

It's got Keith Carradine.

John Belushi is in it and not a comedic role.

Oh, Buck Henry.

OK, I think I read about it in that context of like John Belushi.

It's really good.

Old boyfriends, huh?

All right, I don't Anyway, get getting back to posse.

So yeah, a lot of characters, but also a lot of I, I think a lot of fun.

And yeah, if you eliminate a couple of the threads, like you said, it gives the other storylines a little more more room to breathe.

But yeah, well, and and I do feel like the whole there were certain things that like we're in there just to provide more of that historical context and that that like those real elements from history, such as the land ownership situation that they had in Freemanville.

Like I feel like there were so many parts where this movie was trying to educate its audience and it just creates clutter because of the nature of the movie being this like, you know, action Y Old West movie.

So it's, it's cramming a lot in there and it's like, if this were a series, then perhaps that would that would be the way to handle it.

You.

You look like you've had an epiphany.

Well, no, I look like I just looked up old boyfriends here on the the Just Watch app, and not only do I see that the plot seems to kind of parallel high fidelity in a few just just.

Revisiting old.

Romances, but also Garrett Graham is in it of Phantom of the Paradise.

Fan of the Paradise?

Yeah.

And end of start saves his his family.

Love.

We love him in that, yeah.

So anyway, so there we, so there we.

Are I just, I just kind of teased, you know, doing it as a series?

And yes, that's what that's what my suggestion would be is to have a a Western series.

We clearly, we are, of course, in another one of those like Old West renaissances right now, like Kevin Costner has sort of cornered the market on, you know, the stories that he wants to tell.

So why not give others the opportunity?

And I believe that Mario Van Peebles just did another, what is it called, the Outlaw Posse?

I mean, he's Mario.

Van Peebles has done a bunch of these.

2024 called Outlaw Posse with his son Mandela Van Peebles and Edward James almost is in it and this is a 2024 American western film.

I'm looking for the plot.

19 O 8 Chief returns from years of hiding in Mexico to claim stolen reparations.

Gold hidden in the hills of Montana, but is chased by Angel, whose rationale to the gold leaves a trail of dead bodies.

Yeah, and we also have Whoopi Goldberg, Cedric the Entertainer, John Carroll Lynch.

Edward James Olmos.

Author Edward James.

Emmett Walsh Wow, that must have been.

Emmet Walsh, it says, and MMM Walsh in his final film role before his death on March 19th, 2024.

Well, and it was released March 1st, 2020.

So what's interesting is it definitely seems to have some parallels to Posse, but is not connected to it.

There's another movie out there that is sometimes touted as the sequel to Posse, but it's not.

It's called Los Locos.

Oh, Los Locos?

No, that's the Short Circuit 2 sequel.

The spin off, the short that that that's what yeah, if we, if we can get anything good from Short Circuit 2, it would be a Los Locos spin off.

Yeah.

And also just to kind of go on to kind of bring things full circle, the outlaw posse tagline is when the laws are unjust, the just are outlaws.

So yeah, it's another virtuous Wild West Mario Van Peebles movie.

But yeah, anyway, I, I, I think that if you're going to do this story, do it as a series, perhaps even just a limited series, because to have, you know, any kind of satisfying ending that combines the, you know, the vengeance plot line and also, you know, meeting the person who has been chasing him the whole time.

I give those things room to breathe a little bit.

And yeah.

And take your time with this kind of thing because yeah, I there were, there was a lot of good stuff in this movie that I feel like is fun, I engaging, but then also educational.

And I I appreciate it for those elements, but it's hard to keep track of everything when there is so much to keep track of.

Right.

Yeah, I'm, I'm totally with you on that.

I also feel that and, and I don't know much about what went into the production of of Posse and, but it does feel like you'd be able to maybe even more authentically tell the stories of the Black West in a series format 'cause I was thinking the same thing.

And I was thinking, I was like, well, what if you did?

First of all, you could just expand this into a series.

There's, like you said, there's enough there there to to work with and to expand it out and and let it breathe.

I also want to put it out there and say, because just in case anyone out there is going to put a comment or send us an e-mail and say it.

No, I don't think Ryan Coogler should remake posse.

I feel like Ryan and I have yet I'm excited because I'm I will finally get a chance to watch Sinners soon.

I have I have yet to see it, but it is like far and away the movie that I have wanted to see this year more than anything else.

And I already know from what he's done with other like properties and I'm excited to see this because it feels like this is not someone who we're just going to say, oh, they should.

It's kind of like with with Jordan Peele.

No, I don't want to like I let them tell their own stories.

Like if I can, if Ryan Gugler wants to remake Posse, I give him a blank check.

Let him go with it.

But no, I think that also a series where you're not staking as as much on having, you know, a a prestige filmmaker name to attach to like a Hollywood release is first of all, you have the opportunity.

And even if you did it as an anthology series where it's different stories, different true stories of black people in the in the wet in the Old West, having giving the opportunities to other film makers who are looking for a chance to establish their styles.

And who are, you know, the the people inspired by the the couglers, the peels, the Van Peebles, the Lees, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.

Yeah.

And far be it from me to, you know, narrow it down to, to a name or two.

If I was going to go with any like established voice, I think I'd, I'd, I'd be interested to see what Donald Glover does in the Western genre as a, as a creator, you know, with a, with a, you know, great set of arms as well.

So, but you know, just, but of course, there are so many other names and so many other people in, in creative women like, you know, let's we don't really get a good representation of women women here.

No, we don't very 2 dimensional.

No, they're they're either.

One-dimensional.

Maybe?

One, yeah, no, because I mean other than Lana, the the rest of the women.

And Pam Grier's like half of a line.

Well, right.

And doesn't Pam does Pam Grier like work at the bordello?

Was there a bordello in Freemanville?

Yeah, I, I'm, I mean, I'm, I'm only really just remembering the, the New Orleans, yeah, situation, which was of course, very, you know, not very women.

Forward It kind of feels like the women in this movie other than Lana are sex workers, right?

Yeah, so like a a series that has more room to expand on these stories because surely there were black women in the West who were not just the lovers of Cowboys.

Yeah, and also they they don't give enough room to let the stories of the.

Oh, right.

Because there are all of those stories.

There's this, there's this story.

I mean, Lana is, you know, part Indigenous.

So there's that.

But then in addition to that, there's this, there's the, the woman who was trespassing in Cutter's town.

And so she's hanged, but it's kind of like she just didn't know that it wasn't her land anymore.

Yeah, those stories are marginalized, right?

So to give those stories a little bit more room to be told would only benefit.

Pretty sure it was a little bit more complex than the indigenous people didn't have problems with black people and wanted to kill all the white people, right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Kind of how it's presented here.

Exactly.

Yeah, so anyway, if you listeners, viewers on YouTube or Spotify, if you all have ideas on how you would want to revisitpossethesedaysemailusruinedchildhoodspod@gmail.com, definitely check out ruined childhoods.ruinedchildhoodspod.com for additional fun stuff and merch and whatever and you're.

Posse.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah, yeah.

Send us your Dreamcast for a modern day posse too.

And then also like, please rate and review the show on all the podcast stuff.

That's how people will get to know about it and it surely makes us happy.

We post stuff on TikTok and Instagram all the time, so follow us on those channels.

And if not for us, for these movies, some of which and and, you know, warts and all, some of these movies have really flown under the are and deserve to be seen.

And you know, yeah, we're we're we're not necessarily watching posse for the the most historically accurate telling of things.

But hey, like if you like westerns.

Sure, and and westerns aren't something that I'm typically drawn to, but this one I thought was a more engaging it's movie than.

It's and and not to not to just say that like his movies have to be connected, but it's a new Jack Western.

Well, I mean, just even in the name posse, that was the term being used at the time for, you know, groups of friends in the black community, right?

I mean, sure enough, it it spread and you know, the white people started using the term too and sounds awful, but that was that was, but that was the time.

That was it man 93 you get your posse.

Oh, yeah, I also could have done without the whole like gold bullet thing.

I thought that was just a bit.

That was just like a little bit much that I didn't need, no.

Nobody needs the gold bullets, but it adds a little.

No, you know, we, you know, Jesse has his like bandolier and I felt like it would have served the like, you know, the cool shots of putting like the the bullets in the bandolier better if it were like, you know, the people who he was seeking vengeance on, you know, and and you know, kind of marking like having a slot for them, like a bullet for each.

One of them engraved their.

Faces on them, yeah.

I mean, it's just, you know, white hoods 01 of the lines that I one of the lines that I liked a lot is when we we meet.

This might be when we meet Melvin Van Peebles character.

He's doing target practice and just and he's there are these like sticks with the white triangles with eyes on it on the top Klansman.

And he's like, aren't those targets a little big?

And he's like, I'm aiming for the nuts or whatever.

And I thought that was pretty.

Great.

Oh yeah, that was good.

I love Melvin Van Peebles.

Yeah, and he, he's so much fun in this and I, I, I hope he had fun doing.

That I'm sure he did.

Hey, you know, watching his boy do his thing.

Yeah.

I know hopefully not when they filmed the sex scene because that would be weird.

Yeah, well anyway, Dan, what are we doing for our next movie beginning with the letter?

Oh boy, starfighters, get excited.

We're going to talk about one of the best movies of the 1990s, perhaps the 20th century, perhaps ever.

No, this is a great movie that gets.

Is that how you really feel about?

This I I think it's a great movie that gets better on every viewing.

Maybe not one of the great, maybe not like the top ten of of all time, but like when you boil it down, when you kind of like, you know, checking against the rubric it it gets all all fours.

It's I, I think at least.

So we're talking about 1990.

Eights Out of Sight, directed by Steven Soder, based on the novel by Elmore Leonard, starring George Clooney, Jennifer Lopez, Ving Rhames, Don Cheadle, Steve Zahn, Catherine Keener, Luis Guzman and Albert Brooks.

Lots of other familiar faces that pop up here and there, but definitely not my first time seeing it.

You know, I think I've only seen it once before and it was a long time ago and I'm really excited.

To read OK so we'll see yeah.

After after you give it another another viewing where where you stand on its its status.

But I do I do feel like it it gets back and you know the I even remember the name screenwriter Scott Frank.

Oh, that that's off the top of the head there.

Just because it's such a such a great, such a great script, such a great movie.

Yeah.

So excited to to talk about it and see kind of where we can go with that.

Right on, well Dan, as you are hopping on to a an already running horse Florida State doing your own stunts, I wish you a good journey.

I do.

Good journey.