1 00:00:03,636 --> 00:00:06,039 This is the Discovery Files podcast from the U.S. 2 00:00:06,039 --> 00:00:09,042 National Science Foundation. 3 00:00:10,076 --> 00:00:13,079 Materials Science and Engineering explores the basic structure, 4 00:00:13,079 --> 00:00:17,183 properties and behavior of materials to create goods that benefit society. 5 00:00:17,484 --> 00:00:20,387 Within that field are a special class of engineered materials 6 00:00:20,387 --> 00:00:24,157 that exhibit properties not generally found in nature, called metamaterials. 7 00:00:24,557 --> 00:00:28,094 We're joined by Glaucio Paulino, the Margareta Engman Augustine Professor 8 00:00:28,094 --> 00:00:32,399 of Engineering at Princeton University, whose group develops emerging materials 9 00:00:32,399 --> 00:00:35,935 and structural systems, including one that can change its structure to move, 10 00:00:36,069 --> 00:00:39,072 expand and deform using a magnetic field. 11 00:00:39,205 --> 00:00:41,508 Professor Paulino, thank you so much for joining me today. 12 00:00:41,508 --> 00:00:43,676 You are very welcome. I'm glad to be here. 13 00:00:43,676 --> 00:00:46,012 I'm glad to be talking to you about your work today. 14 00:00:46,012 --> 00:00:48,848 I want to start with kind of a broad definition. 15 00:00:48,848 --> 00:00:50,850 What is a metamaterial robot? 16 00:00:50,850 --> 00:00:51,317 All right. 17 00:00:51,317 --> 00:00:54,320 These are a robot made with a metamaterials. 18 00:00:54,454 --> 00:00:56,423 And what is a metamaterial? 19 00:00:56,423 --> 00:00:59,793 Is a special material that has some unique properties. 20 00:00:59,793 --> 00:01:04,097 In our case, for example, instead of relying on the chemistry 21 00:01:04,097 --> 00:01:08,101 of the material itself, we rely on the geometrical arrangement 22 00:01:08,268 --> 00:01:11,271 on the material architecture and functionality. 23 00:01:11,438 --> 00:01:14,374 We combine this amount of material 24 00:01:14,374 --> 00:01:18,011 with some special actuation techniques 25 00:01:18,044 --> 00:01:21,981 so that we would have properties that are intrinsic of materials. 26 00:01:21,981 --> 00:01:24,984 For example, materials that have deformations 27 00:01:25,218 --> 00:01:29,389 or properties that we see, for example, in robots that have mechanisms 28 00:01:29,389 --> 00:01:33,560 that move a rigid body mode and other things like that. 29 00:01:33,893 --> 00:01:37,730 So we could have a material that behaves like a robot, 30 00:01:37,730 --> 00:01:40,733 or a robot that behaves like a material or a combination. 31 00:01:40,934 --> 00:01:42,936 Somewhere in between. Yes. 32 00:01:42,936 --> 00:01:47,340 Why is origami an interesting engineering approach? 33 00:01:47,607 --> 00:01:51,077 Because origami is a fascinating technique 34 00:01:51,177 --> 00:01:57,784 to transform just a single piece of paper, for example, with a single operation 35 00:01:57,784 --> 00:02:03,423 only just folding into amazing three dimensional configurations. 36 00:02:03,923 --> 00:02:09,262 Or we can also use a combination of folding and the cutting, for example. 37 00:02:09,329 --> 00:02:12,332 And in general, in the literature, whenever you cut, 38 00:02:12,432 --> 00:02:15,368 then you say, kirigami, but in general Origami? 39 00:02:15,368 --> 00:02:20,173 And Kirigamis they are basically the same family of origami type system. 40 00:02:20,406 --> 00:02:24,043 So what are some of the benefits of using that approach with a robot. 41 00:02:24,210 --> 00:02:28,481 In the nature paper, we indicate that before, for example, 42 00:02:28,982 --> 00:02:34,354 there was a paper in science in 2017 where they created a chiral system 43 00:02:34,587 --> 00:02:37,891 that had some very interesting properties 44 00:02:37,891 --> 00:02:41,427 coupling the uniaxial deformation and the twist, 45 00:02:41,427 --> 00:02:44,664 but that could only work with small deformations. 46 00:02:45,198 --> 00:02:48,201 What we did was to use what is called 47 00:02:48,301 --> 00:02:52,272 the Kresling origami that is a unit like this. 48 00:02:52,438 --> 00:02:56,743 Then we created an equivalent, the rod based system, 49 00:02:56,910 --> 00:03:01,548 and then we assembled them properly into columns 50 00:03:01,981 --> 00:03:05,018 with a very precise control of the chirality. 51 00:03:05,051 --> 00:03:09,222 For example, this unit has the same chiral orientation. 52 00:03:09,556 --> 00:03:13,793 And then we can also do the opposite and we combine it 53 00:03:13,927 --> 00:03:19,699 with some rotating square mechanism so that we could have a metamaterial 54 00:03:19,699 --> 00:03:23,970 that would allow us to have multi-modal deformations 55 00:03:24,204 --> 00:03:27,840 and control this axial deformation 56 00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:30,843 and that twist in a very unique ways. 57 00:03:31,110 --> 00:03:35,548 Can we define the chiral aspect of it for people that don't know what that means? 58 00:03:36,115 --> 00:03:38,084 The best example is our hands. 59 00:03:38,084 --> 00:03:39,852 Our hands are a chiral system. 60 00:03:39,852 --> 00:03:41,287 The one hand is the mirror 61 00:03:41,287 --> 00:03:44,757 image of the other, however, is impossible to superposed them 62 00:03:45,391 --> 00:03:48,661 and the then chirality is very much used 63 00:03:48,661 --> 00:03:52,899 in many mechanical systems, biological systems, for example, 64 00:03:52,899 --> 00:03:58,871 is an intrinsic ingredient in the DNA, RNA in biological modeling. 65 00:03:58,972 --> 00:03:59,339 With. 66 00:03:59,339 --> 00:04:03,810 Your modular chiral origami metamaterials and the metarobot, 67 00:04:04,811 --> 00:04:06,312 how might you control it? 68 00:04:06,312 --> 00:04:09,849 Do you have to do it with your hands or are there other techniques? 69 00:04:09,916 --> 00:04:11,417 Excellent question. 70 00:04:11,417 --> 00:04:15,288 The most natural way to actuate is with the hands right? 71 00:04:15,755 --> 00:04:20,193 For the system to go to actual applications, 72 00:04:20,193 --> 00:04:23,162 we need to have different means of actuation. 73 00:04:23,263 --> 00:04:26,566 In this paper we use the two different ways. 74 00:04:26,599 --> 00:04:29,002 One was a mechanical system. 75 00:04:29,002 --> 00:04:32,005 That's what we have for example, in the instant machine 76 00:04:32,505 --> 00:04:36,409 we have developed the special fixtures 77 00:04:36,809 --> 00:04:40,146 that allow us to explore this uniaxial 78 00:04:40,146 --> 00:04:43,149 and twist the coupling and the chirality. 79 00:04:43,249 --> 00:04:45,852 The chirality is essential 80 00:04:45,852 --> 00:04:48,855 in this system, besides the hand. 81 00:04:48,988 --> 00:04:51,791 Then we use a mechanical system 82 00:04:51,791 --> 00:04:55,261 and the final one, that's the one that we are very excited 83 00:04:55,261 --> 00:04:58,231 about is the magnetic one, because the hand 84 00:04:58,264 --> 00:05:02,101 involves, touching the end points of the Kresling tower. 85 00:05:02,568 --> 00:05:05,571 The mechanical actuation also involves contact. 86 00:05:06,039 --> 00:05:10,176 It's like you put the system in strong machine, there will be contact, 87 00:05:10,209 --> 00:05:15,581 however, with the magnetic actuation is a non-contact system, 88 00:05:15,581 --> 00:05:20,553 and then it makes the metamaterial or the robot extremely elegant, 89 00:05:20,953 --> 00:05:23,756 very light, with unique properties 90 00:05:23,756 --> 00:05:27,493 that if you would actuate in different ways, 91 00:05:27,493 --> 00:05:30,930 would become more difficult to achieve those properties. 92 00:05:31,197 --> 00:05:35,668 So now that we've set up kind of how it works, how you might control it, 93 00:05:35,968 --> 00:05:39,572 what are some of the potential real world applications? 94 00:05:40,173 --> 00:05:43,643 There are many applications, maybe one that relates, 95 00:05:43,643 --> 00:05:47,780 for example, to civil engineering, thermal regulation of buildings. 96 00:05:48,147 --> 00:05:49,148 Now it's very hot. 97 00:05:49,148 --> 00:05:53,119 What do we do here in the office or where do you are you turn on the air 98 00:05:53,119 --> 00:05:54,320 conditioning, right? 99 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:56,189 Then in the winter what do we do? 100 00:05:56,189 --> 00:05:57,256 We turn on the heater. 101 00:05:57,256 --> 00:06:00,493 But the cooling and the heating system, in most of the houses 102 00:06:00,493 --> 00:06:03,696 I know, including mine, they are two completely different things. 103 00:06:03,963 --> 00:06:07,033 Now suppose that again this is a prototype. 104 00:06:07,033 --> 00:06:09,736 This would be a panel of a building. 105 00:06:09,736 --> 00:06:13,306 Now if you just take a take a look here, you can see that 106 00:06:13,573 --> 00:06:16,943 the dominant color that you see is black. 107 00:06:17,176 --> 00:06:20,079 Because this is a absorbing panel. 108 00:06:20,079 --> 00:06:22,682 Then this can be used to heat the environment. 109 00:06:22,682 --> 00:06:25,351 Now the same configuration. 110 00:06:25,351 --> 00:06:28,921 For example if I go and I actuate now you can see that 111 00:06:28,921 --> 00:06:32,291 in this region the dominant color is white. 112 00:06:32,492 --> 00:06:34,560 Right? There is very little black. 113 00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:36,729 And then a if I keep for example, 114 00:06:36,729 --> 00:06:40,967 if I really want to cool the entire thing, I keep actuating them. 115 00:06:41,067 --> 00:06:46,105 And what we have shown in in the paper is that this is exactly this system 116 00:06:46,105 --> 00:06:50,076 that can vary from 27 degree 117 00:06:50,076 --> 00:06:53,079 centigrade to 70°C. 118 00:06:53,212 --> 00:06:58,718 When a black dominates the solar absorbing panel, then the temperature is higher. 119 00:06:58,718 --> 00:07:02,588 When the white dominates, then we have a cooling effect 120 00:07:02,588 --> 00:07:05,591 and then the temperature reduces. 121 00:07:05,792 --> 00:07:10,630 This is one application, and there are many others that we indicate in the paper. 122 00:07:10,630 --> 00:07:12,265 Robotics. Right. 123 00:07:12,265 --> 00:07:16,202 Metamaterials also information encryption. 124 00:07:16,469 --> 00:07:21,541 And we have one example because each unit has a folding state 125 00:07:21,841 --> 00:07:25,978 that we can call here zero or deploy this state one. 126 00:07:25,978 --> 00:07:27,713 And then they can combine. 127 00:07:27,713 --> 00:07:31,117 And then we can control the bits of 128 00:07:31,117 --> 00:07:35,955 the Kresling units in many different configurations that would lead 129 00:07:35,955 --> 00:07:38,991 to a mechanism for programable 130 00:07:39,325 --> 00:07:43,896 information encryption and, something that, 131 00:07:43,896 --> 00:07:47,166 we are very excited about is, 132 00:07:47,333 --> 00:07:50,336 the noncommutative, states of matter. 133 00:07:50,670 --> 00:07:56,442 If, we pick up a piece of rubber and we fix it on the left and the on 134 00:07:56,442 --> 00:07:59,612 the right hand side, we twist in one way 135 00:07:59,879 --> 00:08:02,882 counterclockwise and then clockwise, 136 00:08:02,882 --> 00:08:06,419 then it will come back, to the original configuration. 137 00:08:06,419 --> 00:08:09,822 But because, the sequence of actuation 138 00:08:09,822 --> 00:08:13,960 will matter if we invert that sequence instead of doing, 139 00:08:13,960 --> 00:08:16,929 let's say clockwise first and then counter clockwise, 140 00:08:16,929 --> 00:08:19,599 then we do clockwise and then counterclockwise, 141 00:08:19,599 --> 00:08:23,202 the configuration of the system might be different. 142 00:08:23,936 --> 00:08:27,673 So I want to refer back to your heating panel example that you showed. 143 00:08:27,673 --> 00:08:29,909 Because I think that really connected the dots 144 00:08:29,909 --> 00:08:34,313 at least in my thinking, for how you could potentially have a magnet system 145 00:08:34,313 --> 00:08:35,581 where you could flip a switch, 146 00:08:35,581 --> 00:08:37,383 and if these were all on the side of a building 147 00:08:37,383 --> 00:08:41,454 or something, it could dramatically change the experience inside the building. 148 00:08:41,521 --> 00:08:42,154 What you said 149 00:08:42,154 --> 00:08:46,425 is a very good idea, but in a building, if you create a magnetic system, 150 00:08:46,425 --> 00:08:49,762 it can interfere with cell phones, with other things. 151 00:08:49,829 --> 00:08:50,930 The waves and so on. 152 00:08:50,930 --> 00:08:54,166 And then what we did was to create a mechanical system 153 00:08:54,166 --> 00:08:58,571 with one degree of freedom that could activate all these units at the same time. 154 00:08:59,505 --> 00:09:02,508 What scale would they need to be for a building? 155 00:09:02,708 --> 00:09:04,343 Would you want them much larger? 156 00:09:04,343 --> 00:09:07,880 Yes. We only have, a prototype, the scale of my hand. 157 00:09:07,980 --> 00:09:12,752 For a building, then this would be on the scale of, the wall. 158 00:09:12,752 --> 00:09:14,220 Right? Several meters. 159 00:09:14,220 --> 00:09:18,424 But again, that's what technology transfer would be, to transfer things 160 00:09:18,424 --> 00:09:22,929 that we develop in the laboratory to a commercial scale application. 161 00:09:23,262 --> 00:09:26,399 Then, we would have to design the units to be 162 00:09:26,399 --> 00:09:30,903 as minimally invasive as possible so that you don't use too much space. 163 00:09:31,370 --> 00:09:35,007 One way that would make it easy to use, for example, 164 00:09:35,308 --> 00:09:38,644 is to have it always on its maximum capability, 165 00:09:38,878 --> 00:09:42,782 although you can have intermediate states, but then the actuation 166 00:09:42,949 --> 00:09:44,584 would be more complicated. 167 00:09:44,584 --> 00:09:49,655 But, if we want to actuate all of them at once, this makes sense because, 168 00:09:49,655 --> 00:09:53,492 for example, right now it's really hot, sheet metal is in your house. 169 00:09:53,693 --> 00:09:56,462 You want to have the maximum cooling that you can get. 170 00:09:56,462 --> 00:09:58,831 That would be the white surface. Right. 171 00:09:58,831 --> 00:10:01,434 And in the winter that would be the opposite. 172 00:10:01,434 --> 00:10:04,437 I would like to segue into some of your other work from here. 173 00:10:04,704 --> 00:10:08,774 And I know you're working with the concept of tensegrity with metamaterials now. 174 00:10:08,774 --> 00:10:11,777 Can you explain a little bit of what that might be? 175 00:10:11,944 --> 00:10:14,547 We have been working for a long time 176 00:10:14,547 --> 00:10:20,519 in trying to create, duality theory where, when, we have an origami 177 00:10:20,519 --> 00:10:24,690 like this one that, is based on shells, we would have 178 00:10:24,790 --> 00:10:29,095 an interpretation of this origami in terms of a tensegrity. 179 00:10:29,128 --> 00:10:30,429 What is a tensegrity? 180 00:10:30,429 --> 00:10:33,399 We like what is called a class one tensegrity. 181 00:10:33,399 --> 00:10:36,402 The best example would be a soccer ball, 182 00:10:36,435 --> 00:10:40,373 because, we are having now, the soccer championships. 183 00:10:40,373 --> 00:10:40,773 Right. 184 00:10:40,773 --> 00:10:43,743 And there will be the World Cup in the future, then 185 00:10:43,809 --> 00:10:48,047 the analogy between a tensegrity and a soccer ball is the following. 186 00:10:48,114 --> 00:10:51,117 For example, if we have a spherical tensegrity, 187 00:10:51,317 --> 00:10:54,353 we would have cables that would be tension 188 00:10:54,353 --> 00:10:57,990 that this represents the membrane of the soccer ball. 189 00:10:58,190 --> 00:11:02,261 Then inside we would have columns that would be compression. 190 00:11:02,261 --> 00:11:07,833 And this would be an analog to the air that keeps the soccer ball inflated. 191 00:11:08,100 --> 00:11:08,734 Okay. 192 00:11:08,734 --> 00:11:12,238 We are presently working on a theory that we call 193 00:11:12,238 --> 00:11:16,108 invariant dual mechanics of tensegrity and origami. 194 00:11:16,308 --> 00:11:20,312 This is a work in progress that allow us, for example, 195 00:11:20,513 --> 00:11:24,684 if our theory is right and if it works by understanding, 196 00:11:24,684 --> 00:11:28,954 for example, origami, we could create some new tensegrities and vice versa. 197 00:11:28,954 --> 00:11:34,293 By understanding the tensegrity, we could create a new origami systems. 198 00:11:34,593 --> 00:11:39,665 Although we started this research thinking only about regular structures 199 00:11:39,665 --> 00:11:44,136 that are, very regular that have polygonal formations and so on. 200 00:11:44,303 --> 00:11:49,308 Also, this offers us a mechanism to create irregular structures. 201 00:11:49,709 --> 00:11:54,480 Structures like the ones the ants do, for example, extremely irregular. 202 00:11:55,014 --> 00:11:57,283 That's what we are working on right now. 203 00:11:57,283 --> 00:12:01,987 We are very excited about this duality between origami and tensegrity. 204 00:12:02,521 --> 00:12:05,324 Thinking about the ant structure, 205 00:12:05,324 --> 00:12:09,228 what's the benefit of getting into irregular structure with that concept? 206 00:12:09,395 --> 00:12:14,400 For example, one idea is that we can have structures that are very regular 207 00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:18,604 and they will give us some, set of properties. 208 00:12:19,038 --> 00:12:22,341 Most of these structures in our paper, they are regular. 209 00:12:22,908 --> 00:12:25,344 However, sometimes we may have, 210 00:12:25,344 --> 00:12:31,550 advantages that work with systems that are not structured, that are very 211 00:12:31,550 --> 00:12:32,985 random. 212 00:12:32,985 --> 00:12:37,656 For example, spinodal configuration, this is quite random. 213 00:12:37,656 --> 00:12:41,761 However, there is some, logic in all of this. 214 00:12:41,761 --> 00:12:45,264 For example, this here is a piece that is isotropic. 215 00:12:45,264 --> 00:12:49,135 That means it has the same stiffness in all the directions. 216 00:12:49,869 --> 00:12:51,771 This one is a Lamella system. 217 00:12:51,771 --> 00:12:53,939 This looks like the pages of a book. 218 00:12:53,939 --> 00:12:57,276 In this direction it's very soft because it's highly porous 219 00:12:57,676 --> 00:13:02,148 and in this direction tends to be more stiff because it's highly anisotropic. 220 00:13:02,548 --> 00:13:07,486 Exploring similar ideas can be very beneficial. 221 00:13:07,486 --> 00:13:12,892 For example, in stochastic system like this, if you have system 222 00:13:12,892 --> 00:13:17,863 that is regular and then for example, made of rods and you break one of them, 223 00:13:17,863 --> 00:13:22,034 then you will create, a lot of stress concentrations around that region, 224 00:13:22,034 --> 00:13:24,904 and you can have a cascade defect and break the whole thing. 225 00:13:25,938 --> 00:13:26,639 Here. 226 00:13:26,639 --> 00:13:31,076 If you have, a local defect, then, these structures tend to be, 227 00:13:31,076 --> 00:13:36,015 highly tolerant to local defects and then this stochastic nature 228 00:13:36,081 --> 00:13:40,619 helps you to get this type of property, like, insensitivity 229 00:13:40,619 --> 00:13:46,392 to defects, resistance to fracture, to cracking, and similar properties. 230 00:13:46,392 --> 00:13:50,429 And then we are exploring some of these ideas in connection 231 00:13:50,429 --> 00:13:54,800 with, disordered materials and also ordered materials and, 232 00:13:54,800 --> 00:13:59,638 trying to understand when it's beneficial to use one or the other 233 00:13:59,638 --> 00:14:04,009 and trying to find the novelties in each one of them and the connections. 234 00:14:04,310 --> 00:14:08,414 I was thinking of it in an architectural sense, with the rods, 235 00:14:08,681 --> 00:14:13,018 how it might get into weird shapes that maybe that works with the physics 236 00:14:13,018 --> 00:14:16,021 of the weight distribution, with the building, and maybe not. 237 00:14:16,121 --> 00:14:18,424 Well, they could also be used in architecture. 238 00:14:18,424 --> 00:14:21,427 For example, look at the structures by Frank Gehry. 239 00:14:21,493 --> 00:14:23,329 They are quite irregular, right? 240 00:14:23,329 --> 00:14:26,332 We are working in smaller scales, more 241 00:14:26,365 --> 00:14:29,902 in the material level and the, the meso scale. 242 00:14:30,302 --> 00:14:34,473 But even here Princeton, I am, looking for some students 243 00:14:34,473 --> 00:14:38,744 in architecture that would be interested to scale up some of these ideas. 244 00:14:38,944 --> 00:14:43,415 Not exactly as we have them, but adapt them for structures 245 00:14:43,415 --> 00:14:44,984 like the ones that you mention. 246 00:14:44,984 --> 00:14:46,685 And this would be fascinating. 247 00:14:46,685 --> 00:14:50,522 This is a great example of where the translation of the research can go. 248 00:14:50,556 --> 00:14:52,258 Exactly, precisely. 249 00:14:52,258 --> 00:14:55,060 And also another advantage is that in our lab, 250 00:14:55,060 --> 00:14:59,265 most of the time we do smaller things, but in the architecture labs, 251 00:14:59,265 --> 00:15:03,569 they have all the infrastructure to do big things and they scale things up. 252 00:15:03,569 --> 00:15:09,675 This would be, a fascinating interdisciplinary work among, researchers, 253 00:15:09,675 --> 00:15:13,646 professors in different departments, the students in different departments, 254 00:15:13,946 --> 00:15:19,018 with a cross pollinisation of ideas that can lead to unique things. 255 00:15:19,518 --> 00:15:23,022 If a student is, hearing this interview 256 00:15:23,022 --> 00:15:26,025 and is interested, can come and talk to me. 257 00:15:26,025 --> 00:15:29,461 So thinking about translational research and fundamental research, 258 00:15:29,461 --> 00:15:32,464 I want to ask you about your experience with NSF. 259 00:15:32,498 --> 00:15:35,701 What difference has NSF support made to your career? 260 00:15:35,701 --> 00:15:37,870 NSF is, tremendous. 261 00:15:37,870 --> 00:15:43,509 And to my understanding, is the only agency with no mission. 262 00:15:43,509 --> 00:15:47,379 For example, Department of Energy, everything is focused on energy, 263 00:15:47,379 --> 00:15:51,483 Department of defense, the Army, the Navy, the Air Force. 264 00:15:52,051 --> 00:15:53,552 It's all related to defense. 265 00:15:53,552 --> 00:15:58,257 But the NSF, they are very open and they fund, 266 00:15:58,257 --> 00:16:01,660 fundamental ideas, fundamental research. 267 00:16:01,927 --> 00:16:07,032 A lot of the original developments, in my own research program, 268 00:16:07,466 --> 00:16:11,971 they were, supported by NSF, like this paper in Nature. 269 00:16:11,971 --> 00:16:15,240 And I hope that the support for NSF continues, 270 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:19,278 is a tremendously important agency in the United States. 271 00:16:19,278 --> 00:16:21,180 It works extremely well. 272 00:16:21,180 --> 00:16:26,986 I also worked at NSF some time ago as a program director, between 2009 273 00:16:26,986 --> 00:16:31,991 and 11, NSF is more than the sum of the parts of NSF 274 00:16:31,991 --> 00:16:35,127 is bigger than the whole, because NSF is structured 275 00:16:35,127 --> 00:16:40,232 in many different divisions, directorates and related to different areas. 276 00:16:40,232 --> 00:16:44,169 But it also connects very well with the other agencies 277 00:16:44,169 --> 00:16:47,506 like the NIH for health related research 278 00:16:47,706 --> 00:16:52,311 with the Airforce, the Navy, the DOE, DOD and all these agencies. 279 00:16:52,311 --> 00:16:56,315 And at the end, the way I see is that the the sum of the parts 280 00:16:56,615 --> 00:17:01,153 is much bigger than the whole and the NSF provides this unique vision 281 00:17:01,153 --> 00:17:04,623 where, fundamental research in any area 282 00:17:05,257 --> 00:17:08,961 is appreciated and welcome and also leads 283 00:17:08,961 --> 00:17:12,264 to applications that allow you to connect with other agencies. 284 00:17:12,264 --> 00:17:16,335 For example, translating some of the fundamental research to an application. 285 00:17:16,568 --> 00:17:17,703 NSF is amazing. 286 00:17:17,703 --> 00:17:21,507 You know, it had a tremendous impact in my career, with no NSF 287 00:17:21,507 --> 00:17:25,577 a lot of my best work, including this one I just talked to 288 00:17:26,712 --> 00:17:27,913 you probably, we will never know, but, 289 00:17:27,913 --> 00:17:31,917 probably would not be done or would have been very difficult to be doing. 290 00:17:31,950 --> 00:17:34,653 NSF is amazing. Amazing. 291 00:17:34,653 --> 00:17:38,223 The last question I want to ask you today, as you mentioned, that you're working 292 00:17:38,223 --> 00:17:41,226 on some tensegrity materials for your next project. 293 00:17:41,360 --> 00:17:43,162 But I want to ask you kind of broadly, 294 00:17:43,162 --> 00:17:46,165 where do you see your work going in the next few years? 295 00:17:46,231 --> 00:17:50,702 It has, the, the duality between, origami and tensegrity. 296 00:17:50,702 --> 00:17:53,405 I think, this opens up tremendous. 297 00:17:53,405 --> 00:17:56,542 If this works and this is a work in progress, 298 00:17:56,742 --> 00:18:01,447 but if the ideas that we have, work, this will offer a new paradigm 299 00:18:01,447 --> 00:18:07,019 in structural and material design for ordered and disordered materials. 300 00:18:07,619 --> 00:18:13,592 Another area that we are, very excited about is, that we started to work in. 301 00:18:13,592 --> 00:18:17,329 This Nature paper is the non commutative states of matter. 302 00:18:17,329 --> 00:18:18,030 Okay. 303 00:18:18,030 --> 00:18:21,900 And then, exploring these concepts of chirality 304 00:18:21,900 --> 00:18:26,105 and non commutativity to create, for example, unique 305 00:18:26,105 --> 00:18:31,977 robotic arms or robotic leg that would become lighter, more efficient 306 00:18:31,977 --> 00:18:35,647 and more controllable by exploring the intrinsic, 307 00:18:35,881 --> 00:18:39,218 architecture of the material or the structural system. 308 00:18:39,651 --> 00:18:43,522 And another idea that we have, it's very excited, 309 00:18:43,522 --> 00:18:48,260 but this is a work in progress, is, the idea to create origami 310 00:18:48,393 --> 00:18:53,932 state machines for programable logic and memory that extends, 311 00:18:54,166 --> 00:18:58,937 the preliminary ideas in this paper for programable information encryption. 312 00:18:59,371 --> 00:19:02,708 This is an interesting area, the idea that you could use that 313 00:19:02,708 --> 00:19:06,512 for encryption and codes as a physical thing is interesting. 314 00:19:06,745 --> 00:19:11,950 And the one of the key ideas to make, these origami state machine work 315 00:19:12,351 --> 00:19:16,488 is, to be able to actuate it in a very sophisticated way 316 00:19:16,488 --> 00:19:18,690 and in a non invasive way 317 00:19:18,690 --> 00:19:21,927 by means of the magnetic fields, because you need no contact. 318 00:19:22,294 --> 00:19:26,598 Ff this is successful, this is, system that cannot be hacked. 319 00:19:27,032 --> 00:19:31,069 If it is electronic, then, this depends on the smarter hacker. 320 00:19:31,069 --> 00:19:31,737 Right? 321 00:19:31,737 --> 00:19:36,275 But this one has a mechanical component, in theory could not be hacked. 322 00:19:36,275 --> 00:19:36,575 Right? 323 00:19:36,575 --> 00:19:38,177 Maybe like a combination lock, 324 00:19:38,177 --> 00:19:40,345 if you did it the right ways, you could figure it out. 325 00:19:40,345 --> 00:19:42,781 But really, you’d need to know what it is. 326 00:19:42,781 --> 00:19:43,682 Exactly. 327 00:19:43,682 --> 00:19:47,252 For example, we are doing some preliminary work in the lab. 328 00:19:47,252 --> 00:19:49,588 We can do this state machine, 329 00:19:49,588 --> 00:19:53,425 with thousands of combinations or millions of combinations. 330 00:19:53,425 --> 00:19:57,162 And then how are you going to find the right one, you know, it’s very unlikely. 331 00:19:57,396 --> 00:19:59,097 Special thanks to Glaucio Paulino. 332 00:19:59,097 --> 00:20:00,799 For The Discovery Files, I'm Nate Pottker. 333 00:20:00,799 --> 00:20:01,767 Watch video versions 334 00:20:01,767 --> 00:20:05,871 of these conversations on the NSF YouTube channel by searching @NSFscience. 335 00:20:05,904 --> 00:20:08,907 Please subscribe wherever you get podcasts and if you like our program, 336 00:20:08,907 --> 00:20:12,144 share with a friend and consider leaving a review. 337 00:20:12,144 --> 00:20:13,111 Discover about the U.S. 338 00:20:13,111 --> 00:20:16,281 National Science Foundation is advancing research at nsf.gov.