Hello, everyone.

Welcome back to The Cosmic Circus Review.

My name is Vin.

With me as always is John.

Today, we are talking about Materialists, the new Celine Song movie.

Super excited to talk about this Celine Song is awesome.

She's a new filmmaker, new writer, new director, and her career has already started like a rocket.

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Today, actually, we do have a question for us.

We do.

We'll get to that.

Materialist, 2025, written and directed by Celine Song, starring Dakota Johnson, Chris Evans, and Pedro Pascal.

Cinematography by Shabier Kirchner, edited by Keith Fraase, music by Daniel Pemberton, who did the Spider-Verse movies.

This is the same team that she worked with, same cinematography, same editor for Past Lives.

John, have you seen Past Lives?

I love Class Logs.

It was my favorite movie, I think it was 2023.

That's right.

That was also my first year to do Sundance.

And they offered the film at Sundance, but they only offered it in person.

So I wasn't able to see it, but it came around a few months later.

A beautiful film.

I love all the themes in it about love coming back around, what it meant at one time and what it means now.

Absolutely.

There's an actor in there.

Forgive me, I am not going to look at his name today, but he's also in Omaha, which I cannot recommend enough.

He plays for-

John Magaro?

John Magaro.

He played for boyfriend of Past Lives, and he's amazing in Omaha.

So if you can go see those, incredible film.

I love Past Lives.

It's a beautiful movie.

I remember when it came out, it had a really slow release.

It took forever for it to come out.

Then it came out to every theater, then it took forever to go online.

So by the time I watched it, I just kept forgetting it.

I was so excited for it.

I kept forgetting about it, then life got busy.

I finally just watched it today, finally, which I feel terrible about because I was so excited.

Two years ago, and life moved on.

Today I watch it and I love it.

It's such a tender film and I love movies that communicate sincere humanity.

I think that's one of those films that is rich with humanity and character.

It also stars the world's best boyfriend.

I mean, they like John Magaro on them, maybe.

What?

But that character, what a luck.

It takes a certain kind of person to have that kind of confidence.

And compassion.

Yeah, to be like, you know what?

You need this.

You need this.

You need to get it resolved.

When you get it resolved, come back to me, I'll be here.

Yeah.

If only God had more guys, and if only more partners were that trusting.

Yeah.

I don't want to spoil things in the movie, but I just love at the end that she's crying, and he's the one who's carrying her.

Yeah.

It's just the most poetic ending to the movie.

Yeah.

I don't think it's more of a moment.

I don't think it's a major spoiler.

To communicate that just sometimes, if you got the right person, they can help you heal.

They can help you heal something that just wasn't there.

So I think it's a beautiful film, beautiful movie.

It's amazing.

We haven't even talked about the immigrants' angle of it too, which I think it's just so deeply humanly relatable, even if you've never been in an experience like that before.

Absolutely.

100%.

We were talking about a couple of months ago, I went back to my hometown and I saw some of my friends for the first time in years.

And I haven't tried dating any of them, but that was something similar, that you're reconnecting to someone from so long ago and how deeply, it's still the same.

We're a bit older, we're a bit fatter, but we're all the same people on the inside and that deep connection.

It's an evolution, it's the previous life, you're seeing who you are in a new life.

Yeah, it's all relatable.

I think it's a beautifully communicated movie.

There's so many deep, wonderful layers to it, especially in the writing.

I had a bunch of quotes that I just loved from the movie, like, you dream in a language that I can't understand.

You make my life so much bigger and I'm wondering if I do the same for you.

You know, just a gorgeous, gorgeous movie.

And the way it's filmed also, cinematography by Shabier Kirchner.

She does, I'm pretty sure it's real film.

It looks like a real film.

It has this gorgeous, rich look.

And I noticed that because I noticed that materialist too, that both movies, she uses the same kind of cinematography.

Yes.

I can't wait to get into that in the new one.

But yeah, there is like similar textures that are in this film that are very, the rotting as well, but we'll get there in a minute.

I think we can go ahead and make the transition now.

So both of these movies are about like love triangle, right?

John, what is the basic story of materialist?

Okay, so materialist, okay, so I don't know if anybody knows, but the reason why she made this film, Celine Song actually was a matchmaker.

She actually was.

I know that.

Crazy.

I randomly found that out last night.

So I was making dinner and I turned on Hot Ones.

Dakota Johnson was on Hot Ones.

Just randomly.

Oops.

Randomly.

Well, I mean, I was like, well, why not research?

Let me research my Dakota Johnson YouTube playlist.

Yeah.

So I clicked on the Hot Ones.

I watch Hot Ones all the time.

I love Hot Ones.

Yeah, of course.

But she was on there.

She talked about the Celine Song.

And Celine Song actually did this show, which is why she wrote about it.

So which made it a lot.

It could have been proof to them eyes because at first I was like, man, are they trying to be like Hitch?

Well, I don't know if you ever saw Hitch.

No, I didn't.

I didn't know.

Yeah, so Hitch has got a similar premise by the guy.

He sets people up.

Well, he tries to get guys set up with girls.

Makes sense.

So yeah, so it's about a woman, I can't remember her name right now, but Dakota Johnson plays a matchmaker who helps single people find their one.

And it's all based on her own algorithm per se.

She has her own ideas in mind of what would work with who.

She has a notebook, she puts them all down.

It kind of speaks on themes about superficialness, is the word I'm thinking about.

There you go.

About the, about, oh, what can it be 5.9?

What can it be 5.8?

Yeah.

You know, like, oh, they gotta have this kind of income or they gotta have that kind of income or they gotta be like, you know, they gotta run here.

They gotta be in their mid 20s, like all these superficial things that we think matter.

And-

They check all my boxes, right?

It talks about all that.

And she kind of chokes in the film here and there about, look, I'm not Victor Frankenstein.

I can only give you- I can only give you what I can give you.

But still, she has her own algorithm.

And she meets a rich guy, Pedro Pascal, who is at one of the weddings that she helped get together.

They can have a thing.

And she also has a thing, like a previous love with a more poor guy.

He's a teo, he's a theater actor, struggles more.

And there's like this like battle for her between the absolute broke man and the absolute wealthy charming death.

But it's a very like gentlemanly respectful battle, right?

I think that makes it such an interesting parallel to Past Lives because halfway through the movie, they almost feel like the same movie.

There's the guy from her past.

Nobody in this room is a midget.

Like they all giggle themselves like adults.

Yeah.

But I think halfway through both movies, I almost thought it's the same movie because you have the guy from the past who she connected with deeply, then you have this new guy who she's in love with.

And then you wonder how is it going to end?

Without spoilers, but I think it's interesting to see how she's exploring these ideas again and again, but also from different lenses.

What did you say?

They're all from parallels.

Parallels, while still being a unique perspective.

I think Past Lives was much richer.

I think the writing was deeper and also the immigrant angle adds so much more to it, I think.

The cultural and how her new husband can't connect with her, and he's trying to connect with her, but he just can't connect with her Korean the same way.

I think Materialist is good, but I think it's weaker in the context of Past Lives.

I 100 percent agree with you, and I have to say it might go harder than that.

Sure.

Go ahead.

Because I'll be clear, I actually really loved, I loved Materialist, but I just think Past Lives is so much stronger, and there's a lot of common ground.

I did not love it.

I did not love it.

I liked it.

I did not love it.

I liked it.

That's not a bad thing.

I liked it.

Somebody told me that it was like a deconstruction of the Romance drama.

Yeah.

And I was watching and going, OK, well, that is true.

If that is true, then they are absolutely yamming their cake.

And eating it.

I would have called it a very traditional classic Romance drama.

I wouldn't call it a deconstruction at all.

It's very Sabrina-like.

I don't know if you've ever seen Sabrina.

Teenage Witch.

I know, but it's a classic Romance drama.

Like they even remade it with Harrison Ford, I believe.

Oh, no, no, no, no.

I've never seen this.

Never even heard of this.

OK, OK.

So Humphrey Bogart, Audrey Hepburn.

Wow.

Yeah, it feels very Sabrina-like to me.

Just that old school classic Romance film.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it does.

Well, I get it.

And the thing is, I need to make it clear that this was not going to be a fair review because for me, anyway, because I don't do well with these kind of genre.

Because I'll just find it.

I know everything that's going to happen before I watch it.

Like I know everything and it makes it difficult for me to enjoy sometimes because I'm like, there's only one way this is going to go.

You watch the Final Destination movie, you know there's only one way it's going to go.

No, absolutely not.

Actually, I'll pick one of my favorite films.

I got one of the two films that I actually have to do with romance.

I'm not being more cynical.

Sure, go ahead, go ahead.

500 Days of Summer, I think is a brilliant deconstruction of this concept.

Okay.

Where it talks about the whole Disney romance thing that we got growing up.

We actually believe that we're going to find the one and it's going to be sugary, flowering rainbows and it's going to be like, hopefully ever after when the real thing is, right after they kiss the prince, more happens.

More that happens after they meet the prince.

500 Days of Summer does a really brilliant thing.

Have you ever seen that movie by the way?

A long time ago.

Yeah.

So I, there's the expectation, what he believes is going to go down.

There's what's actually going to happen.

It's like him side by side.

I think it's one of the most brilliant depictions, what modern romance was like back then.

Your other one is?

When Harry Best Selling, I think it's a great film.

One of my all-time favorites ever.

I love it.

I think it's a great film, but I think that movie is elevated by the performances.

Crazy Stupid Luck is arguably one of my favorite romantic comedies of the last 15 years, but it feeds on all the ideas of love, like the awkward and the breakups, the divorce and them getting together.

They also talk about, like, you know, it gets got.

What's his name?

Oh, God.

Ryan Gosling and, like...

And Hathaway, right?

No, it's the girl from...

No, what do I think?

The movie is in Spider-Man.

Oh, Emma Stone, Emma Stone.

Yeah, Emma Stone, like Emma Stone and him have almost like a reverse narrative going on that I deeply love Crazy Stupi Love.

I think it's one of my favorite films.

I haven't seen this one.

I really need to go back for it.

I just wasn't the right age at the right time, but I need to go back.

So I think it's very iterated.

I think it's very iterated.

Sure.

I'm waiting for you to say Eternal Sunshine.

Eternal Sunshine is more experimental.

I know, but it is worth mentioning because Eternal Sunshine is in Past Lives, right?

Yeah.

I mean, it feeds on the idea of romantic comedy, but like it's not really a comedy.

Yeah.

It is at times, but it's wild.

It plays with the ideas, you know?

Yeah.

The thing about it is, man, for me with this film is that it is by and of itself.

When you break it down, it does everything exactly like you think it does.

You know exactly how it's going to end.

From the first act, you know how it's going to end.

I still enjoy the journey.

Yeah.

But I dig.

So the things I'll tell you what I want.

I love this sort of mcography.

Every shot in this film looks amazing.

Amazing, pristine.

There's a conversation between Dakota and Pedro that are in a restaurant.

There's a lamp above them and they're eating.

There's something just about the way it's lit, the way it looks.

I just remember thinking, bro, this is cinema.

I don't know.

The way this looks in cinema.

The dialogue.

The restaurant scenes are really good.

The dialogue is amazing.

The dialogue is crisp, very well done.

I love all the dialogue.

There's moments where they write, where she's writing things.

I was like, dude, I feel like I'm watching Cherokee No, her brother romance movie right now.

It's just such good dialogue.

Yeah.

Still, it has the most cheeseball, unrealistic, goofy ending of-

Unrealistic, goofy ending.

I don't believe that would happen.

I don't, I'm broke.

I just don't believe it.

She goes on a character arc.

She says, love is all about the checkboxes, and she learns there's more to love than checkboxes.

I mean, yeah, you're trying to convince me.

That's a beautiful story.

It's super simple, but it's beautiful.

I dig the message.

I dig the message.

It's a good message, but my God, it's bathing in science fiction.

It is just-

Science fiction.

Talk about eternal sunshine.

It's not real.

It's not real.

I mean, I would say this is why I absolutely would not call it a deconstruction, because of that ending.

That's the most classic traditional- It's not a deconstruction.

Yeah.

That's one of the- That to me is what undoes everything.

I'm like, I just don't believe you, man.

The deconstruction would be if she rejects love.

If she rejects it, that would be the deconstruction.

I think it would be more of like everybody who's supposed to get what they're supposed to get.

That's what makes it a comedy.

If you go back to Shakespearean comedies, everyone gets a happy ending.

It's a comedy.

Well, I don't think where ends would actually have.

I don't think, and I won't go into spoilers with it, but I just don't buy.

I'm like, maybe this is more fantasy than Lord of the Rings right now.

It's cynic, my God.

It's not even cynical.

It's just like-

I don't think it has to be realistic, but I think it has to feel real to the arc of the characters and the emotions of the story in the movie.

It doesn't even have to be real for you and me and our boring, mundane, not-Dakota-Johnson-Live.

If you're watching movies for Escape and if you're looking for Escape, you're going to get an Escape from this thing.

Isn't that wonderful?

I guess.

I guess.

I mean, the thing is, to me, it's like we've seen this Escape a million times before.

To me, that's not satisfying.

To me, like, there was a way to still give a cheeseball ending and trying to do it different.

I just don't know where it landed.

For me, it was the appropriate way for it to land.

Now, you're probably going to ask people, what would you have done better?

I don't know because I don't know if I'm going to make this movie at all.

No, I'm actually going to agree with you for just a second.

I think that I would even say, when Harry met Sally, I disagree with the ending of that movie because I think the premise of When Harry Met Sally should be that a man and a woman can't be friends without romance, and that they should end without getting together.

I agree.

I adore that.

It's one of my top five movies of all time.

But that ending, I think is what you're saying here.

It's just saying we want to give you the happy cheese ball fantasy ending.

When Harry met Sally, as much as I love that movie, I do think that in my fan fiction, I would cut out the ending, reshoot, put my alternate ending.

But you also want to feel good at the end of the movie.

It's a beautiful scene at the New Year's Eve, right?

Yeah.

To me, that could have worked even in this film.

That could have worked in this film.

People can be friends.

You need to be emotionally satisfied for that reason.

I don't know if you have to say, the Cinderella is always going to get the prince.

You know what I'm saying?

We've seen that a thousand times.

That's not that it's impossible.

I dig the message.

I dig the message.

Absolutely.

Cinderella can get the billionaire prince.

I totally believe that it's possible.

Princess and Hathaway Prince's Diaries.

Absolutely.

I believe it might be real, but at some point, you're asking me in a movie that wants to be grounded, to buy the ending and I just thought totally, it didn't work for me at all.

I don't actually, it's an interesting point because when I was watching the movie, I actually had the feeling that this is a slightly alternate timeline, that this is a slightly alternate earth.

I'm actually not sure why I felt that.

But from the very beginning, I think when she's walking through the city, she's talking about her matchmaking service.

There's just something about it that made me feel like this is an alternate universe, that this is not our normal earth.

I don't know why I felt that.

But even when they're talking about the surgery, with the leg extensions or whatever, I'm like, okay, of course, because in this timeline, they have that.

Or I don't know why I thought that.

But for me, this whole movement.

Is it a real thing?

I was like, I'm wondering.

I don't know, but I might need it.

I'm a very short man, John.

For 200,000, for 200,000, I would do to get anybody you want, Vin.

I just, I don't know what it did.

Did you feel this too, that it felt like an alternate universe?

I don't know why I thought that, but.

I genuinely felt like the way it was communicating, and it felt like the same cinematic style as.

Past Lives.

Yeah, so it was like I felt like I was in a grounded drama, where I'm supposed to feel like I'm in a real environment.

That's why I'm saying whenever it did go for that ending, I was like, I'm just like, okay, are you trying to be made in Manhattan, or are you trying to be something else?

I got it.

When the movie starts, when it starts with the 2K people and the first marriage, from that moment, I said, okay, it's telling me an alternate history of the universe.

That was the moment for me.

From that opening scene, it tells me that this is an alternate timeline where we're imagining, what if this was the first marriage, and then what if this is the world that we created?

For me, my suspension of disbelief was out the window, the whole movie, and I was like, okay, show me your timeline.

So you're talking about the cavemen people.

The prologue at the beginning.

That's where it was.

From that opening shot, I had the feeling that this is not normal Earth.

This is some alternate fantasy Earth.

Got it.

I don't know if that means that.

I think all you're talking about is that it's still science fiction.

Multinadant fantasy Earth, multiverse, science fiction.

Pedro Pascal, this could be Reed Richards.

Reed Richards in Madden Web and Captain America Human Torch.

In a different timeline.

Oh my God.

We're so MCU brain rot.

Anyway, should we move into spoilers?

Sure.

I feel like we've already spoiled enough.

Spoilers starting right now.

I don't have to be out in the middle to get up.

Okay.

You're trying to make me believe Pedro Pascal, who is the most...

He's a unicorn.

Charming, mobile, alive.

He is like absolutely a unicorn even in real life.

All this wealth and amazing like, literally, he's like just the most significant amount of security anyone can ever ask for being around this guy.

He just plays no real flags, nothing at all, but she's going to go out the door and be with the broke guy.

It's love, John.

That's the whole movie.

Yeah, I'm telling you the people, I don't know if this was the people I've been around, but I'm like that ain't real.

Oh man, you're a cynic.

I could be, but I don't know anyone who would do that.

I mean, I saw a letterbox review.

It was a negative review, but it's saying that this whole movie is the final speech from Harry Met Sally, just for a whole movie.

And that final speech from Harry Met Sally is beautiful.

When you've met the woman you want to spend the rest of your life with, you want the rest of your life to start today, to start right away.

And that's this whole movie.

That's the speech that the girl gives her.

What's your name?

Shelby, Sheila or something.

Sophie.

That's the speech that Sophie gives her at the end.

And that's what helps complete her character arc.

And she realizes that there's more to a relationship than checkboxes, that you have to have love at the core.

So she wears her checkboxes and she goes with the love.

It's a beautiful story.

The person that I saw in the film that Dakota Johnson is and was, who had all these algorithms, like, yes, she claimed to be self-aware, I just did not get there for me.

I was like, I do not believe this person is going to settle.

Not that she's settling, but that she's going to go back to the poor guy.

I was like, I love the message.

It's not about the money.

Now, let me be clear.

I love that message.

That love is better than money.

I adore that message.

I'm within.

I'm like, yes.

This movie is poor man propaganda.

Poor men can still win.

I just don't believe.

I'm like, I don't believe in movies at all.

You poor guy.

There's a chance for people like you and me, John.

We have a chance.

It's not like I've been married.

I've been married.

I know I got a chance.

It's just like I've been around the people that the movie is talking about.

I've been around those people.

I've been married into those people.

I know how they are.

It's like I don't know if I'm right.

I'm like, you're communicating a idea to me that I just don't know if I believe.

Now, that could just be my personal belief.

But when I'm looking at the movie itself, I'm looking at the movie itself, but what they're trying to tell me about her is like, they're trying to convince me that she would do that.

Now, that word for you that she's sound as finally made it around.

I also interpreted the movie as like a slightly alternate fantasy world.

Yeah.

It just didn't work for me that she did.

That's the thing I want to make clear.

I 100% approve that idea.

I would much rather her end up with the struggling August who might make it work.

At the same time, I don't know if that's the ending this movie deserved at the same time either.

In my opinion.

I don't know if he even deserved that.

I'm not trying to be mean.

Yeah.

I think there's many ways to go.

First, I want to say, as I imagine, I don't think he ever gets his act together.

I think he wants to.

I think he tries.

But at this point in his life, I think if he hasn't figured out how to make it work, I don't know if he will.

And that's the other thing.

That's the other thing.

Yeah.

Yeah.

At the end of the movie, they try to show that he's buying the tacos or whatever, and he lets them say, hey, man, keep the money, you know.

But then when he gives her an engagement ring and it's just a flower, that's poetic.

But also I think that speaks to the fact that this guy is still broke.

And he jokes that you're making it, are you ready to make a really bad financial decision?

Which is cute, but also really broke.

Some people, like, I mean, like, dude, I don't even care if they give her a dominant ring.

I don't even care about that.

Yeah.

You know, I'm poor.

I'm a poor person.

I want to do like, I want food stamps.

Like, I understand that position.

And it's not like, you know, that people can actually pick themselves up out of that position easily.

It's very difficult to actually come out of it sometimes.

Because wealth builds wealth.

Being poor systemically can make people stay that way, if you know what it is.

But, for me, I'm looking at this individual, the character that you're describing to me throughout this film, who has an algorithm of what people believe should or should not be, who actually acts pretty self-absorbed throughout the story here and there.

I don't know if it got me there to the end to make me believe that this person would actually choose him over her.

I mean, over Pedro Pascal.

I don't know about that.

And that gets to the next thing I wanted to mention, which I think you're right about, is I don't think she's good for him.

Chris Evans needs to move on and find someone who actually respects him and someone who actually cares about him isn't just using him when she gets lonely.

And that's the other thing.

I was just like, I don't know narratively if I love that idea about them getting back together.

Which is something that Past Lives did well.

Past Lives let her move on at the end, right?

It gets her the goodbye, it gets her the closure, it's very emotional.

And then she breathes, she cries, she moves on.

Beautiful ending.

And this almost feels like, I don't know if it's like regression or if it's figuring out what she always wanted.

But it feeds into the narrative of what we know in a million, millions of times before.

It's just the same.

It is.

I do think it's beautiful.

But Past Lives just did something similar and so much better.

So much better.

That's what I'm saying, Vin.

That's what I'm saying.

What would have been better if she ended up with like the guy?

That's the most stereotypical cliché thing.

The fact that she doesn't, it was what makes it mature and modern.

That's what I'm saying.

That's what I mean.

That's why I call it materialist.

That's why I think it's a very classic old school style movie.

It's not mature and modern at all.

It's very traditional old school, almost frustratingly so.

Yeah.

That's all I thought.

That's going to wear on that with it.

I just did not love where it is.

I don't even know if it's because I'm cynical.

I just, I know it plays into it a little bit.

But you had to work a little hard narratively to get me to that point.

I don't know if it convinced me that she would do that.

I wish she did because I think Celine Song is amazing right now.

I think she's great.

But I think there was some more there that could have been worked on.

I know Dakota Johnson made her own studio to give her a little more leeway, a little more control.

From what I understand, Dakota Johnson approves of more happy endings.

She likes- That's what she said in the Hot Ones episode.

She likes that old school happy ending where things work out.

So you think she sabotaged the end of this movie to give it a happy ending?

I mean, that's a very strong hyperbolic phrase.

But you understand.

You understand what I'm saying.

I don't know if she sabotaged it or not, but I think it's possible that she was like, what if we go for a more classical, you know, what if we just do that?

I think it's very possible Dakota did that.

I hope not, because I think Celine Song, especially after such a powerful first movie, I hope that she has the confidence and ability and strength to say, this is the ending of my movie, and I'm going to end my movie this way because this is the ending for my movie, and Dakota Johnson won't influence that.

I hope so too, but man, she is Dakota Johnson.

She is like on royalty.

I actually saw earlier today, I think the original cast for this movie had Jeremy Allen White as the waiter, and Dakota Johnson was Jodie Comer.

So that was the original cast for it.

That's an interesting- that's not a bad cast, actually.

No, you can see where it goes.

I don't know who Pedro's role was, maybe it was also Pedro.

Pedro, man.

Daddy never fails, man.

His role, actually, I want to talk about that.

I thought he was very flat, which fits the character.

It fits the role, but it's almost kind of weird because we've seen him do such emotional- so much range before, and here he's almost playing a one-note character.

Intentionally, it's part of the character.

I genuinely don't think he's flat in this movie.

Okay.

I think he's doing a lot of work for what he's given.

Sure.

He's only supposed to play the over-charming guy, and that's exactly what he does.

He's playing daddy, bro.

Yeah.

That's what he does.

I didn't feel any kind of a conflict or death in him.

It was just, he's a guy with a lot of money, he knows what he wants, you check my boxes, I check your boxes to make a deal.

I disagree, and I could point out a specific scene where he's grunting.

Go ahead.

So there's a sequence where they're sitting at the table, and this is why I get where I'm like, I don't know about the movie, I don't know.

She is telling him why they want to work out or something like that.

He's breaking him down to his core, and his response to that table is so strongly executed that she inherently understands how much he values her.

I think it's a greatly delivered set of dialogue words by him that I think are very good.

Sure.

The writing is very good and the acting goes with it.

The acting is good.

He played his part extremely well.

I just think the part itself has a three-dimensional role.

I think that has to do with the part more than it does me.

Yeah.

It's not his performance, but the way the character is and the way he's playing, it's just a little different than we've seen before.

Yeah.

I still think he's great.

I think he's very good.

I would argue the main three leads were all good.

I go back and forth on Dakota sometimes.

Dakota feels like she's going to fly too.

I think that emotional coldness fits the character here.

Yeah.

Like we talked about why she's not good for Chris Evans in this.

But again, to me, it's like that's how Celine writes her films.

They have a very cold feeling to them sometimes.

There's warmth in there, but there's coldness in the character.

It's like a cold intelligence that they have.

Yeah.

But again, not for me, wasn't for me.

One more question.

Considering this group that we're talking about, how would you compare these movies to Challengers?

Challengers, which was written by her husband.

It's written by her husband.

All these movies are about throuples.

What is up with this?

It's amazing.

It's amazing.

I loved it when you said it.

Yeah.

I think they're different.

Definitely.

Challengers is like the heavy metal version of Materialist.

It's going hard.

It's got an energy to it.

It's great.

Great movie.

But what is it with this couple and writing movies about threes?

Maybe they have nothing to do with it.

I don't know.

I don't know.

I don't know.

But anyway.

Funny.

Anyway.

Good movie.

Good movie.

Not great.

No.

I think it's really good, especially for a modern romance.

But you mentioned so many, and I think there's so many better romance movies, that I think I would recommend you.

Yeah, this one's pretty good.

Go check out the classics though.

You know what movie is better?

You know what movie is better than?

Me Before You.

Oh, of course.

Me Before You.

Yeah, way better.

Way better than Me Before You.

And everything's better than What's Man.

Oh my gosh.

Anyway.

Where would you rank this among sinners?

I have it above sinners.

This is my top of the year now.

They're past final destination bloodlines.

But how's that possible when sinners is better than final destination bloodlines?

Because it's not.

Oh my gosh.

Sorry about it.

Yeah.

What's so funny is that I gave final destination bloodlines a 4.5 out of 5, and I gave this a 4.

But this is of course a better movie than Bloodlines.

But Bloodlines, it just checked my boxes.

I don't even know how you gave this one a 4.

No, not for you.

I'm a sucker for good sentimental romances.

But I'm picky.

I'm picky.

But when I like it, I'm a sucker.

Yeah.

For example, like Harry Met Sally.

What am I?

I think I've seen it seven, eight times or something.

I adore them.

I don't like Sleepless in Seattle.

So I'm just picky with them.

Completely fine.

You know what movie I like better than Sleepless in Seattle?

You're going to actually look at me and go, what?

What?

You got Mel.

I haven't seen that since I was a kid.

I really want to rewatch it.

I haven't seen it since I was like seven or younger.

You know, when you look back on it, I mean, it's an absolute creep in it, but you know.

Yeah, I bet.

A lot of those romantic movies like, you know, I mean, not even to get into the Woody Allen of it all, but.

You know what's interesting?

I have not seen a single movie about Woody Allen.

I like Annie Hall, but When Harry Met Sally is almost the same thing and without Woody Allen.

So I take that.

I just feel relieved that that entire spectrum missed me the way I don't have any attachments to that weirdo.

I went through a small phase where I started watching his movies.

A lot of them, he does the same stuff over and over and over.

So Mailbag, Dau Phi Boy, our guy, he says, Hi, Vin and John, I'd like to know your guy's favorite movie director.

Favorite movie director?

The big question, my friend.

Can I just say one thing to this guy?

How are you going to try to tell me the big between children?

How?

I love them all.

I love all the children.

Tell us your favorites then.

Let's say not one, but just a couple.

I'll just go through.

I actually want to talk about ones that are gone now.

Okay.

I don't know if I have one that I'm a favorite.

No, because there's so many greats.

There's so many greats, but there's people that I miss.

Yeah.

And the biggest one for me, he never did anything that was like Scorsese level or anything like that.

But goddamn it, I miss Tony Scott.

I miss Tony Scott directing movies.

He did Top Gun.

He did The Last Boy Scouts.

True romance.

True romance.

Enemy of the State.

Man on Fire, J.J.Boo.

You know, Man on Fire.

His movies have a look that has not been replicated.

His movies just had such a 90s and 2000 aesthetic that just have not been repeated by anyone.

He was a big fan of like, you know, if you watch the sequence of his movies, his sequences were lit up by windows.

The window lights, the window shades, just the way that they look.

I mean, I miss that guy so much.

He did great with action.

There are shots of Man on Fire.

I think they're some of the most brilliant.

That movie has 35% of long tomatoes.

I don't understand it.

I think it's a brilliant film.

I love Man on Fire.

I miss Tony Scott to death.

But if you're asking me, like right now, my favorite perfect working day, I don't know if I'm a singular one.

I know I love Jordan Peele.

I love Alfonso Cuarón.

I love Del Toro.

Del Toro, Chris Benoist.

I mean, dude, there's something in the name.

Yeah.

I'll say I have a bunch I want to mention.

I just said Del Toro, of course, because I love his mix of sweet hearts with horror.

I love that, the mix of heart and horror, and the way he intertwined fairy tales into his work, and he has a very unique visual style, and the way he also works with great actors, and he's recreating these classic stories like Frankenstein, like Pinocchio.

I think Del Toro has to be probably my favorite filmmaker working today.

The biggest tragedy in the cinema is the one that we get at the mountains of madness.

Honestly, I would rather have more Del Toro movies than wait forever for him to make that one.

So I'm happy that he's just making stuff.

I agree, but man, I just think about what that movie would have looked like.

He had so many unfinished, unmade movies that I'm happy he's just making something.

I'm ecstatic about Frankenstein.

I can't wait for Frankenstein.

I also want to mention, I really like film history.

I love film history.

I want to talk about from the 1919-20s, FW.

Murnau.

He's really famous for a couple movies, but my favorite movie from him is Faust.

I also like Fritz Lang, also from the 1920s.

From the 1960s or so, I like Mario Bava, Dario Argento.

They did the Jalo movie.

Absolutely.

I love all these movies.

I guess it's all horror, but they're so stylish.

Also, I love Suspirio, like a few years ago.

I mean, that's crazy.

Yeah.

I just love all these directors, how they're working with all the ones I mentioned.

So Del Toro, Bava, Murnau, Lang, they're all like heightened realities.

Everything's bigger and more exaggerated, more colorful, and the way they're playing with human psychology and fear, but they're also telling you some beautiful story at the same time too.

They're mixing all these genres together.

That's what I love in filmmaking.

I want to say before I go on, David Fincher, I think, has been the most influential probably in my entire life.

Sure.

What's your favorite Fincher?

Oh, God, man.

I think I have to say Social Network probably.

I would say Submit and Fight Club were the most formative for me.

Formative, of course, yeah.

Yeah, like I saw Submit and Eaters.

Yeah, wow.

I was way too young to watch them eaters.

It shook me to my absolute core.

Fight Club was great until a bunch of generations, white men currently, wanted to start taking out our government.

So, yeah, fight club was amazing.

Yeah, yeah, I believe that.

Seven, I didn't watch it when it came out, but I did see it on the IMAX a couple months ago.

It's great.

Yeah, it's great.

I'm so mad at you for that, I'm just like, man.

If I remember, it was my time, my show time was at 7 p.m.

I think I saw it on February 7th, and I had some discount thing, so my ticket was seven.

Amazing.

Just I think a couple of coincidences.

Yeah.

So anyway, we have a couple of recommendations here.

Oh, so FW.

Murnau, I love The Last Laugh and Fowl.

So this guy is from the 1920s, but he's one of the people innovating and creating the language of cinema that we know today.

Such amazing, amazing movies from that time.

Bava, Del Toro, these are the legends that really push the genre into exciting ways, I think.

Kurosawa, we have to say.

There's an Indian filmmaker called Shatujit Rai, who I love.

He's kind of like Spielberg.

Southern cinema, right?

One of my favorite films.

Yeah, of course.

Vin Loppon is one of them.

I'll mention one more.

Shatujit Rai, he's kind of like Hitchcock meets Spielberg, but for Indian cinema, for Bollywood.

He would write novels, then he would make movies based on his own novels, and he would structure the story differently to fit the different mediums.

He would adapt his own work and make changes for movie versus incredible filmmaker.

Anyway, so that's it.

Thanks everyone for watching.

If you enjoyed our discussion, be sure to like, subscribe, leave a comment below.

Are you excited for the next Celine Song movie?

She's doing some e-sports drama?

I don't know what that means.

We'll see if there's a three-second minute.

I'm Vin.

You can find me on Blue Sky.

Vin writes words.

I'm John and you can find me on Blue Sky.

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Thank you.

And how do I look below, am I?

You look so good, dude.

You look wonderful.

This is being recorded right now.

I'm gonna put this in the video.

I got that neighborly, you know?

I got that look that, hey, you can knock on my door, Pedro, and you don't work on it now.

Hey, John, you can come knock on my door any day you want.

Yeah.

Just come over, just come over.

I'll be sober, but absolutely.

All right.