Hello, everyone.

Welcome back to The Cosmic Circus Comics Review.

My name is Vin.

With me, as always, is Vic.

Yes, afternoon.

Hello.

I say John all the time.

I have to remember.

I can be John if it makes it better.

I mean, look, to be honest here, I'm Clark, and with me is also Clark.

Yeah.

Exactly.

Just two very normal Kansas farm boys here.

Today, we're talking about Superman Comics, which we're both so excited out because Vic and I, we love Superman.

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All right, Vic, where do you want to start?

What do you want to talk about first?

So let's bring all those boys to the table.

So for today's Tweet, we have Superman, Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow, Superman Volume 1, 2023 edition, Supercorp, we have Superman 78, the direct continuation to the Donners movie by Robert Banditti.

We have Superman, Up in the Sky, the 6th issue, Story Arc, your favorite, Superman For All Seasons, my favorite, mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Kingdom Come?

All Star?

All Star and my favorite, Kingdom Come.

Yes.

But yeah.

That's a lot of Superman comics.

Yeah.

What do you want to talk about first?

So maybe let's start with the For All Seasons, since you like it so much.

And I think it's the perfect start for anyone who wants to start with Superman.

So this is Superman For All Seasons, written by Jeph Loeb, art by Tim Sale.

I think it's a goddang masterpiece.

Every page is like a water painting.

And the character of Superman is so warm and so loving.

He's like a big teddy bear, but he's also powerful.

I remember the first time I looked at this comic, I thought it looked kind of weird and silly, because Superman looks like a big baby man.

But when you read it, I think this does tie into the movie because he looks silly, he looks a bit goofy, he looks kind of weird, but he's the most powerful guy on the planet.

But he's just a big teddy bear, big nice soft guy.

And I just love his heart and how he just wants to be like a boy at home.

And he's a bit scared to go to Metropolis and then his relationship with Lana from the first issue to the fourth issue, I think.

And gosh, it's just a masterpiece, I think.

There's so many layers that I just adore.

His relationship with his dad, with his mom.

For me, this is the ultimate, for me, this captures what I love so much about Superman.

This is for me, the quintessential perfect Superman comic.

Yeah, I'll say that my first expression, experience with this comic book was that I really felt like I was watching Superman with Christopher Reeve again, the first movie, because it has a lot of these 60s, 70s vibes.

And it feels like a...

And this movie felt like a direct inspiration for this comic book.

And I have to say that I didn't expect it to be so deep, even though it wasn't the best Superman comic ever, for me at least, it's still very good, because it has a lot of exploring Clark's inner sense of, you know, being good, doing good things.

Definitely.

And I know why, because of this comic book, I know why some people hated Zack Snyder's version of Kent's, of the Kent family, and the hot take on everything Jonathan Kent did in the movie Men of Steel.

But, you know, I still like to separate those versions, because Snyder's version was to show that this world of superhero is not perfect, not everyone is perfect, it's more humane.

Even the Kent's are not the ideal family, the iconic, crystal clear family.

Yeah, like with Snyder, I just, I interpret it as an alternate universe.

And like all of these are just different versions.

It's the same, same story beats, but just like you have with the spider means, these are all alternate versions.

And what would be the point if it's not something different?

And maybe it's not my favorite version, but it's cool if it is someone else's favorite.

But I like that he's at least saying, let's look at this from a different lens.

And James Gunn is doing something similar.

Superman and Lois, Smallville, Christopher Reeve, even Dean Kane, animated series, My Adventures, like all of these are the same recipe, but you want these alternate takes.

Otherwise, what's the point if you're doing the same thing again?

Yeah, it's like they would write different Superman comic books, but the premise is still the same.

And people expect them to behave in the exact same way, to do the exact same things, to say the same things, and it's not OK, at least for me.

Did you ever read Superman Earth One?

It's the one where, set on the same Earth as the Batman, your one day one?

It's technically in the same universe as Batman Earth One by Geoff John, but they never connect.

The point of Earth One is that it's very grounded.

It's very gritty and grounded.

It's very similar to Man of Steel.

Oh yeah, we're assuming that would be, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's right.

So if you did like Man of Steel, then Earth One might be a cool comic for you to check out, but it's like 180 degrees from Superman For All Seasons.

Superman For All Seasons is so warm and pure.

If you look at his costume, it's directly inspired by the Superman Animated Series costume.

It's one to one.

They took that costume, then after Long Halloween, Tim Sale reinterpreted Superman using the Animated Series costume.

I just think it's fantastic.

My take on it, on the relationship between Clark and his father, and every comic has a different take on it.

I started getting deeper into it yesterday because I finished reading For All Seasons yesterday.

It all started with me noticing the Sean O'Connell's post about the exact same scene from The Man of Steel.

I was still greeting Sean.

Hello.

Sending hello to Sean O'Connell.

He said that he really hates the scene where John Kent says, when Clark saves the bus, he says, should I have not saved them?

And he says, maybe not.

And it all perfectly summed up this word for me.

Just like I said, they're not crystal clear.

They're not iconic.

They have different values to teach to Clark.

And it's a different take on the universe, but the premise is still the same.

And that's why I really love For All Seasons, because it's another take on it.

It's more set in the past vibes in the 20th century.

And I have to say that this is the comic book that made me feel like I'm a little boy again, who reads a story about this perfect grown man who's still a little childish, a little naïve, and tries to be as supportive as he can.

And it really broke my heart at the moment, at one moment.

It's just beautiful.

I remember I also wrote a review for this a couple of years ago on our website.

And in the review, I pointed out some of the art, because there are a couple panels that recur, that they re-use the same panels in the different seasons.

And I just think it's one of the rare, rare masterpieces that we have with superhero, like classic superhero comics.

Yeah.

And for some reason, some fans love it, but some fans just overlook it, maybe because the art looks funny and he looks like a baby.

But I don't know.

Since the day I read it, since the day I read it, yeah.

A big baby in the sky.

Yeah.

But since the day I read it, like day one, I was in love with that comic and nothing.

We'll talk today about some other great Superman comics, but I think for me, forever, this will be my Superman comic.

All right.

What's next?

I have to say that's pretty okay.

Okay.

So, okay.

We're going to think about the connection of those comic books to the movie later.

We're going to focus on the movie.

I'll leave Kingdom Come for the last because it's the best for the last.

Let's move to the All-Star, which is the movie heavily inspires this comic book.

According to James Gunn.

Yeah, according to James Gunn and according to our list of the comic books who were used to inspire this movie.

And I have to say that All-Star pretty, it really made me wonder what I'm reading.

Okay.

Yeah.

Was this your first time reading it?

Yeah, it was my first time reading All-Star.

It's very strange for the first time.

Yeah.

It's really trippy.

It really surprised me and damn, I can't say I was disappointed.

I had mixed feelings for now.

It's so hyped up.

Everyone says, All-Star or Sylvester Rath.

But the first time you read it, you're like, this one?

Is this the right?

This one?

I've gone through it a couple of times, I think.

Every time I read it, I like it more.

I think especially by the end, it starts to lock in pretty well.

But there's some stuff in it.

You're just like, what's happening?

Where's this going?

What?

And I'm curious what they take from this for the movie.

I think.

We'll focus on it later because.

Yeah.

My favorite thing about this comic, I think.

There's a lot of cool moments and ideas in it.

I like that Lex, like he's working out.

Lex wants to be the peak human.

So he's like very strong and athletic.

I like that.

And I like the end where there's the two and the Superman symbol.

I love that.

And I really like if you look at Frank Quitely's art, I really like the way he draws Superman and the way he draws Clark.

The way he does like he's big and strong, but also kind of babyish, like for all seasons.

But then as Clark, he's just like hunched over, like just a weird little, I don't know.

He's not little, he's huge, but he's like unazoom.

You can perfectly see it in here.

Exactly.

That's the perfect shape.

The perfect channel.

Standing straight and up and slouching.

Yeah.

He's like bumbling around and I think this is what we'll see kind of in the movie also, but which is good because I think that's one of the sharpest things that this comic did.

Yeah.

But also I like the clothes.

Right.

That comes also a little bit from Superman Birthright, which maybe we'll talk about later.

I also like the science fiction.

I like how wacky and weird, because it's Grant Morrison, of course.

And sorry to tease a little, but I think that's also something that James Gunn is embracing for the movie.

Just this is Superman.

He is a sci-fi scientist.

Grant Morrison is one of the people who are in the DC writers.

I don't think he's in the writers room.

Not in the writers room, but one of the writers he trusts when he wants to ask about the script and whatever.

Yeah.

Because if you look at the list of stuff that James Gunn has set up, almost like four out of five, 80%, 90% comes from Grant Morrison comics.

So the guy likes Grant Morrison.

Who doesn't like Grant Morrison?

Yeah.

But Grant Morrison isn't necessarily the best.

He's not like the most widely accessible.

He's kind of strange, kind of weird.

He's not your normal like popcorn stuff.

But he can be sometimes, but he's also kind of weird and cerebral.

He takes some really weird stuff.

Oh yeah.

I have a perfect description for him.

He takes the casual characters and he gives them as wild and crazy story you can think of.

Yeah.

But for example, All-Star, he takes Jimmy Olsen and he like revolutionizes the character Jimmy Olsen, right?

Yeah.

I really didn't like Jimmy in All-Star.

But All-Star, you can sum up it in one sentence.

It's a story about Superman dying.

Yeah, that's right.

That's right.

It goes through all of the processes of grief.

Yeah.

You have the hate, the acceptance.

Yeah.

It's a brilliant premise.

I think it's like the final days of Superman.

Superman and Lois touched on something similar too.

Superman and Lois has a completely different...

And they did it better.

I think I agree.

Well, it's hard to say.

It's different.

But for me, I think Superman and Lois was more emotional.

Because it focuses on the more human side of Clark.

Because as he's dying, he comes back to the farm and he lives with Lois.

That's a beautiful ending for Superman, right?

Versus Grant Morrison goes the opposite way.

And he does the big galactic Superman, hero of the universe, sci-fi extravaganza.

And no one knows about it.

Yeah.

But Superman and Lois goes, he goes back to being just Clark on the farm.

His kids are the heroes and he can just have a quiet, happy life with the woman he loves.

Beautiful ending, right?

Yeah.

And I think that All Star was a little heavy for me.

Heavy?

Yeah.

Because you have all those amazing panels, amazing moments in it.

And at some point you feel a little overwhelmed by what's happening.

Definitely.

Because how this comic book is, something's happening, then you go jump to the other story.

You go to Jimmy Olsen, you go to Lois Lane, you go to someone else.

And it's exactly my problem with these comic books, even though it's good, it's not bad, but it's good.

It's that it not focuses on Superman enough.

Yeah.

It's like Flashpoint.

I don't like bringing up Flashpoint, but Flashpoint is the perfect example.

Flashpoint should focus on Barry Allen, the Flash, and only on him, but it focuses on everything that's happening around him, that he can't persist grief or whatever.

That's why the show did it better.

The show had the best Flashpoint.

I think with Superman All-Star, I also like the Bizarro issue a lot.

I think that episode is great.

I love Bizarro.

It was great.

Yeah.

I have the slow Flash, the green lantern trapped inside his ring.

I think that's when Grant Morrison really shined, stuff like that.

He also did a comic called Earth 2, which you might like, which is what the crime syndicate.

Yeah, that's right.

Also in All-Star, I like the issue where Paul Kent dies.

That's another really good one.

Oh, yeah.

Okay.

You remember that one?

It's like you see the whole legacy of Superman.

Yeah.

Where he goes and travels in the past.

Yeah, that's a very Grant Morrison issue.

Very heavy, very trippy, but also human.

I think it might be my second favorite.

What was your favorite?

The one where he saves all the people.

Yeah.

Where he seems saving all the people, especially the girl on the ledge.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah, of course.

It's one panel, but it perfectly sums up everything that Superman stands for.

Yeah, that's probably the most famous moment from All Star, is the girl on the ledge.

Yeah, and we still didn't talk about the yellowest lady.

What about her?

She's...

I don't like her.

She's very trippy.

She's getting powers.

She is afraid of Superman.

She's getting crazy.

And then it's like the stuff around Clarke isn't...

She behaves like it's not really happening.

Yeah, I think I have to come back to All Star, but I agree.

There's just a lot of weird things about it that I...

I think it does a lot of things well, but I just don't...

I don't love it like so many other people do.

And I feel like sometimes it's overhyped just because everyone else is overhyping it.

But I don't...

For me personally, maybe I just need to read it more.

I don't know.

It just doesn't click with me as much as the other stuff on the list did.

Yeah, I mean, I get it why Gunn is using it.

I get it.

But thank God he's not adopting the story from it.

Have you seen the animated movie for All-Star?

Yeah.

Yeah, I've seen all the animated movies from DC.

Do you think you like the animated movie better than the comic or is it the same problem?

I think it's similar.

I don't remember if I watched it in red or whatever, but I've just never been a big fan.

I don't know.

Okay, what's next?

It's a really weird comic book to adapt.

I'll go with my favorite standout, focus on the Superman story, which is Up in the Sky.

I really like this one.

Yeah.

It's a story about Superman traveling through the whole galaxies, just to save one girl.

Yeah.

It's pretty beautiful.

Yeah.

It's pretty beautiful and unexpected at a moment, because he asks himself the exact same questions we would ask him.

What happens if Superman leaves Earth?

What happens if Superman dies deep into the cosmos?

What happens if, I don't know, Lois Lane dies in thousand different ways?

It's all for one girl.

Isn't it beautiful?

Yeah.

I read this only once a few years ago, when it was pretty new, I think, and I was shocked because Tom King, I like Vision, I like some of his stuff, but I fell off the Tom King hype train a while ago.

So I wasn't really interested in Tom King and Superman, because he's such a deconstructionist.

But then I read it, and honestly, I liked it, like number two under For All Seasons, which shocked me.

But I just, I really love this, how each issue kind of is his own story, its own adventures.

But at its core, it has so much heart.

Like you said, just to save one girl, and he's just trying to be a good guy, do the right thing.

But as it compared to For All Seasons, now he's out in space doing crazy stuff.

So he has the most beautiful covers.

This is the one from him fighting the alien in the ring.

Oh, this one.

Him saving Lois Lane and him losing the race to the Flash.

It's him bargaining with Darkseid and saving the Alice.

What else is here?

So I think this and For All Seasons are a really good...

This one is amazing.

Oh, yeah.

With Mongol?

Fighting Mongol and fighting Shazam.

Shazam, yeah.

Yeah, but oh no, I have to say, if I wanted to see an animated movie about Superman, even in the DC Universe, I really have to say that this is the perfect movie to adapt, the perfect comic book to adapt into the animated movie.

Because it can be an hour and a half long or less, which is the standard length for the animated movies in the DC Universe.

Second, you can perfectly tie in the David Coren sweats Superman into this comic book and not introducing Batman or other superheroes.

You can replace them with the JSA, or the Justice League International, whatever.

You can replace all the other characters with everyone who's appeared in the DC Universe up to this point, and it would still work.

You can play it in cinemas, and people will still go see it, because...

and we'll talk about it, because this story is a perfect story to show to people who haven't read a comic book about Superman ever, who want to know more about who Superman is and what he stands for, why you can't...

not can't hate, but why you don't have to hate Superman, because at one point in my life I hated Superman, but for absolutely different, weird reasons.

And I understand why some people don't like Superman, because of his...

you know, of him being so perfect, and always being the number one superhero ever, the most popular superhero, the most good superhero, whatever.

But this comic book really finds the balance between making Superman an amazing hero and making him a made hero, so...

I don't want to say his name, but...

Kind of flawed.

Oh, yeah, exactly.

Yeah, you can see his struggles.

Yeah, you can see his struggles, and he gets this depth that he needs.

At least for me.

But outside that...

Good.

Yeah.

And I was just amazed, because it's a new comic.

I was like, I thought all the good Superman comics were, like, over, but then it reminded me, oh, they can still do, like, really good modern Superman comics.

Okay, what's next?

Yeah.

Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow.

Sure.

This is a classic.

Alan Moore and Curt Swan.

Yeah.

It's the classic.

And I know what you're going to say with me hating all the old style of the art, but I have to say it wasn't that bad.

I was barely true with it.

But yeah, it's a story about Clark Kent doing things we didn't expect him to do.

It's basically him breaking his own rules in order to save people.

And in the end, he pays the price for it, but he does it willingly.

And I have to say that it's very similar to one of his stories that were adapted into either the animated show or the animated movie where he breaks the rules by accident and he either uses blue kryptonite or the gold kryptonite to strip himself from the powers.

But it was the alternate universe we saw.

I think it may have been one of the alternate universes in one of the animated shows, but I'm not sure.

I know that Tom Welling, Superman, had the watch made of the blue kryptonite.

So when he stops wearing it, he gets back his powers.

But let's focus on the comic.

I kind of didn't like this whole premise of getting the...

It was Max's Petal League, right?

Yeah.

I haven't read this in a long time.

It's been like 10, 15 years.

I'm not a big fan of Max's Petal League.

That's why I always hated him interfering with Superman.

And I hate him the same as I hate Batman.

They're fun.

They're little shits.

Okay.

They're fine up to the point.

Have you seen My Adventures with Superman?

Yeah.

And have you seen Superman the animated series?

A few episodes.

Which version of Mixi do you like better?

Maybe none.

Oh, poor guy.

Even in Supergirl, he was funny.

Different.

Very different, right?

Yeah, very different.

I don't know what to say, to be honest.

Because let's move for a second to the Batman might.

In Batman Brave and the Bold, the animated series, he appeared for a few episodes, only for a few seconds.

And that's it.

And that's perfect length for this kind of...

Just a little bit.

They go away.

Go back home.

Exactly.

Be an observer or whatever.

And him causing all this chaos in Earth.

Okay, I have to say, one thing that I did like about him was him explaining why is he doing this exact kind of thing.

Because for two thousand years he was alone.

He didn't move.

He didn't breathe.

Then for another few thousand years he was good.

He was doing good deeds.

And then for a few thousand years he got bored and he became evil.

And now he became crazy and he wants to do something bad.

And okay, I get it.

But why do they have to use him to show that this Superman must kill him?

He split his body, one part of his body was sent into the Phantom Zone and one was sent into the fifth dimension.

Because he shot him with a...

I don't remember this at all.

Wow.

With a gun, some kind of Krypton gun, that when he said his name in a reverse, sent him to the fifth dimension.

Oh yeah, with the Phantom Ray gun.

The Phantom Zone gun, okay.

And he sent him to the Phantom Zone, but when he was hit at the same time, he said his name in reverse and was split into two different...

whatever he's made from.

Two different consciousnesses.

Superman said it killed him and then he went into the room, into the fortress, in the Fortress of Solitude and used gold kryptonite on himself to be happy with Lois and the kid and that's it.

That was the end of Superman.

And that's in Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?

Yeah.

I don't remember any of it.

Wow, it's been a long time, I guess.

He's got a mustache and all.

He looks like Thomas Wayne.

Crazy.

What did you like about this comic?

What are the best parts?

That the art wasn't that bad as I would think.

Curt Swan.

Curt Swan is classic.

He's like very classic Silver Raid.

Yeah, even though it was this type of art that we've talked about many times that I'm not very fond of.

It was bearable.

It was really okay.

That wasn't that much of the unnecessary tags in the pages.

But Alan Moore does like his tags.

But Curt Swan is like the most classic Superman artist, probably.

He's the one who really defined him in the Silver Age.

Every time I hear about Alan Moore doing a comic book, I expect a 600 pages story or description of a nature.

Have you ever seen an Alan Moore script?

Have you seen his comic scripts?

I think I've, yeah, I saw the one for The Watchmen.

Yeah, it's like a brick.

Every detail, every detail.

You can kill a person with it.

Yeah, but I think that's the reason why he's such a, one of the best comic book writers ever.

It's because he makes sure that every detail is there and he prefers to write more and then cut it out instead of thinking every single second, what to add, what to add, what to add.

He prefers to write more, much more, cut it or re-write it to fit the overall story.

And that's good, but the one thing I don't understand about this comic book is why it is used as an inspiration.

As some parts of it are used for the Superman movie.

I don't get it.

Maybe we'll get it when we see the movie, but.

Maybe part of it could be like the, just the science fiction, the craziness of Superman.

Maybe with Ultraman, maybe he's being split into two personas.

Who knows?

Yeah, maybe from what we've seen in the trailer, the newest trailer from the, from yesterday or from the day before?

Or this week.

Yeah, this week, this week's trailer.

Yeah, he's got the long hair and he's got a beard.

So he looks more like the, he looks more like the Superman from the, when he was re-birthed, re-birthed after his death.

I'll be honest with you right now.

If they do some really crazy sci-fi wackiness, like some of these crazy stories, like All-Star or like this where there's many adventures.

Oh yeah.

Like any weird, weird adventure, I think that will be cool.

We've already seen some parts of the All-Star in the movie, so in the trailer.

So, so-

For example?

Like a monster?

The whole, the planet, yeah.

The planet alien monster that was on the first- Oh, got it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I remember.

I remember.

I remember.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

That guy Gardner is fighting in the movie.

What's its name?

I'll find it.

Give me a second.

Sun Eater.

It's called a Sun Eater.

Oh yeah.

I really love Frank Quietly's art.

I love his art.

I'm still not convinced of getting used to this weird art.

It was this one.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's it.

That's it.

Yeah.

But what happened to the Man of Tomorrow?

Great premise.

But the end was...

The whole Mixed Spital League part was that he was standing behind everything that happened.

I didn't like it.

Yeah.

Do you like...

What order is it?

For the man who has everything?

Have you read that?

I think I did a few years ago.

That's the one with...

What's it called?

Black Death?

Is that what it's called?

The one with the parasite that sends you into your fantasy.

I think that's a great story.

And you've seen it adapted in animation, in MyVac, and a couple of other...

It was also a part of the Up in the Sky.

Was it?

Yeah.

I think so.

That's right.

With the Mongol story?

Wait, give me a second.

Yeah, it's particular.

And this scene is a part of it, where he eats with Bruce and Diana.

And then it's revealed that he's been a prisoner all the time.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, I really like that.

And it keeps coming back in different forms.

Yeah, it was the perfect, perfect Superman.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a really good one.

Okay, next, Supercorp?

Yeah, Supercorp, it's the 2020 free comic book.

I don't remember if I read all of this.

I think I read some of it as it was coming out, but I don't remember if I finished or how far.

I know that only volume one was being used at one point to adapt it, to use it as an inspiration for the movie.

And you can perfectly see why.

You feel the metropolis, you can feel the exact vibe of the city, of the heroes, of each person in the comic book and in the trailer.

Because when I was reading it, I immediately know they're going to use this vibe, this type of atmosphere, this type of behavior in the movie.

And I have to say that it's pretty.

It's one of my favorite art styles in the modern comic books, because it's really comic book-y likey, and it's very modern, but it's also a little cartoonish.

Okay.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But I think it is from what I remember, I think it's a really nice blend of classic with modern.

And that's why it's so pretty good.

It's a good jumping on point for new readers.

And also you can do something a little bit new if you're already an established reader.

Yeah.

Daily Planet is the online newspaper right now.

Clark Kent, of course, also, Clark Kent here is, his vulnerabilities are more shown, more visible.

He must listen to the music at some point to get off his anxiety, to fight off his anxiety.

You have, at this point, Lex Luthor is in prison and Clark always listens to him in the prison, what he's doing, and he's fighting live wire in the beginning.

And he's saying, Lex is saying to Clark, while watching it on TV in the prison, use your ice breath and Clark hears it and he won't use it because he doesn't trust Lex.

He won't do anything that he tells him to do.

I think I read that, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, also the Supercorp is the revealed Luthor Corp because Mercy Graves bought it and she used Superman logo as the logo of her company.

Right.

And already Lois knows that Clark is Superman, which she knows about in the movie.

And they have the similar, I think it will be the relation that they show it will be from this.

Because it's a more modern take on the young Superman, young Clark and young Lois.

And as far as Clark and Lois go, I really love them and my adventures.

The animated show.

I think in the Superman movie, we're going to get a slightly more, maybe more developed version of them.

Because my adventures is like day one.

Yeah, because Superman in the Superman movie has, Clark has been Superman for three years now.

Three years.

Okay.

Yeah, that makes sense.

He's still pretty new at it, but he's not day one.

Like Man of Steel is day one.

My adventures is kind of day one.

But now this new movie is going to be a couple years.

Yeah, he's in his merely advanced stage of being Superman.

He's not much more experienced, but yeah.

I have to say that I really hope that one thing they're going to do with those characters in the movie is not make them childish or make them not behave as they...

Let's say for 90.90% of the movie, they behave in a certain way.

They do certain things, they say certain things, they show certain things.

And then in one part of the movie, they completely abandon what they introduced about those characters.

And they're going to behave in a very different way.

And I don't want to see it.

If they have to, there must be a premise, there must be a build up.

And yeah, so should we move on to the last two comic books?

One more thing I want to mention, I really like in the modern Superman comics that they have this really established family, a Superman family.

I mean, there's so many that I don't even think I know all the characters, but I like that a lot.

That like, you know, Batman has his bat family, you know, Superman has his super family.

And I think that's something I'd like to see in the new DC universe.

I like to see them have families, the Superman family, the Batman family, the Wonder Woman family, get all the green lanterns, get a couple of flashes.

Really, give it a universe feel.

We've got an upgrade.

Jonathan Cairn is not dead in the movie.

Not at the beginning.

That's an upgrade.

Where's Mark ends?

Yeah.

Yeah, she's there.

So, yeah, we'll see what's similar, what's different and not.

I think for what we've even talked about already, I think there's a lot of really neat elements that they can take for the movie.

All right, Kingdom Come.

What do you think?

No, Superman is 28.

Oh, sure, sure, sure.

I think the best for the last.

Okay.

Yeah.

I don't know anything about it.

So it's between like Superman 1 and Superman 2?

It's after, yeah, it's between Superman 1 and Superman 2, but it's more of a wild take of this universe because it's set in the same universe.

It's supposed to connect some certain events or whatever.

But okay, it has Brainiac as a villain.

It brings back the Jor-El and Lara for one certain important scene.

I'm not going to spoil much for you, because you'll want to read it.

But you can really feel the Richard Donner Superman in it.

You can feel Christopher Reeve.

You can feel everything that happened in the 78th version of the movie in this.

It's like a very faithful continuation of that Superman.

I'll show you the art, so you can see it.

We're going to find the perfect...

Oh, you recognize this guy, hmm?

That's really nice.

Yeah.

And you have Gene Hackman.

So basically, it's the direct inspiration.

You have every character that appeared in the movie to appear in the comic book in exactly the same way.

You know, like Christopher Reeve as Superman, Gene Hackman as Lex Luthor, Marlon Brando as Jor-El and all.

Yeah.

So it's very nice.

And I can see, you know, because Gunn said that he's going to adapt and rather be inspired a lot by the Donner movies, because people may like them or may hate them, but let's not forget that if it wasn't for them, we wouldn't get more Superman, we wouldn't get more Batman.

It all started with this movie.

Yeah.

Because comic books are one thing, but not everyone buy comic books.

More people watch movies and TV shows rather than read comic books.

That's where it becomes mass pop culture.

Exactly.

And that's why this Superman comic book, even though it may not be the most important comic book, it even isn't in the comic books that were used for this movie.

But I think that mentioning it would help a lot to see all those easter eggs, all those nuts in the movie that are going to appear.

I also want to mention Richard Donner wrote, he wrote some comics in the 2000s with Jeff Johnson.

Some of these do pick up his ideas for Superman 3, like with Brainiac or something like that.

I don't know if I loved them as much as other stuff, but yeah.

Man of Steel 2 by Zack Snyder.

Zack wanted to use some of the premise that was used in this comic book.

Oh really?

Cool.

With Brainiac and Clarion, bringing Shurell, Lara.

That makes sense, because Brainiac is the really big villain that we've never seen in movies.

So I'm waiting, waiting, waiting.

Only in TV shows.

Yeah.

And that's it.

No, two TV shows.

Many, many TV shows.

Pretty much every TV show.

Even Smoughville, Supergirl, Krypton.

Superman and Lois.

Did they ever do Brainiac?

No.

No, he wasn't revealed as Brainiac 5.

But he was.

Oh, but they didn't mention Milton Fine in season 4.

Milton Fine wasn't, but they didn't mention Brainiac.

But he never would go as Brainiac.

Yeah, that's interesting.

Just an Easter, like a red herring.

And people thought that Tom Carver would play Brainiac.

Yeah, but moving on.

Anyway.

Yeah.

I'm not going to lie, this is my favorite comic book ever.

Sure.

Sure.

Yeah.

I think the first time I read it, I was really early in my comic reading.

And I liked you.

I just loved it.

Now looking back on it, there's some moments that are just perfect.

And I love the philosophical debates between Superman and Batman.

There's some things I think I still have issues with.

The plot is kind of weird sometimes.

Alex's Ross is perfect for covers.

But in a comic, it's very static.

Everyone's like perfectly posed all the time.

And it, but it's just a masterpiece still, right?

It's just, it is like the peak of what the medium could be for superheroes.

As far as just very classic traditional.

This is the end of the era.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

People dig it.

Yeah.

And it's lapsed.

It's lapsed.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Exactly.

And it's the perfect reason why this comic book work was partially adapted in the Arrowverse Crisis on Infinite Earths.

Yeah.

Like I think, I think it's like the greatest idea of like the end of the DC universe.

You see all the heroes, you see them pushed into their ultimate like evolution.

Like a DC legacy.

Exactly.

I think it's fantastic.

If DC was doing multiverse, I would like to see the Kingdom Come.

Not just one or two.

I want to see the whole multiverse.

I want to see the whole universe.

There were plans to do the Kingdom Come in Crisis on Infinite Earths, but they only got Kevin Conroy for the Batman, the Kingdom Come Batman, and Brandon Rufus, the Kingdom Come Superman, whose suit looked amazing.

Yeah.

I never thought they'll be able to pull it off, especially after having the Henry Cavill without the trunks, Tyler Hacklin without trunks.

No.

They brought the trunks and it worked.

But you do it with confidence and anything can work.

You just pull it off with confidence.

Right.

And here we have David Cornsweat.

He looks great in the trunk.

Very old star inspired suit.

We talked about a few weeks ago when we were recording the Superman Trial Reaction and what you sent me yesterday again.

What they say about why Superman has trunks.

James Gunn never wanted the trunks.

He was adamant.

He told that bringing back trunks to the Superman suit will be a suicidal thing to do.

And he brought them after David Coren Sweat said Superman wears trunks so that kids are not afraid of him.

How much that he gets it, right?

It's kind of like the Adam West Batman having the little eyebrows, you know, so that the kids aren't scared of him.

It's weird how after all these years people can still see such a minor things and some things that normally you wouldn't think about when you read a comic book.

And when someone else says it, like, why is he doing this?

Because of this.

And you're like, oh, God, it was all this time there.

Yeah, I didn't see it.

Yeah.

And my adventures, I think that's my favorite explanation.

They say he has the alien suit is his blue suit.

But his mom for dismissing something.

And his mom adds the little chunks.

That's my favorite version of the suit creation because it blends both and makes sense.

Why is the blue suit never destroyed?

It makes sense.

And it also explains why he looks a little bit goofy and inhuman.

Yeah.

I really like my adventure.

We talked about when we were talking about the suit, when we were talking about the trailer, I still think that this suit, because I can already say that he has more than one suit in the movie, both have trunks, but I still think it's the beginning of the reverse Marvel, the reverse MCU.

Because in the MCU, in the beginning, they have all the different suits, and with the time, they get the Comic Accurate suits.

And as I said, with DC, I still think that they're getting the Comic Accurate suits in at the beginning, just so they can create the original ones in the future.

Oh, that's interesting.

So they'll start changing the suit and doing different things.

Yeah, creating new suits, maybe inspired by some, but not the Comic Accurate ones.

Interesting, they'll get more creative with them.

Yeah, more creative and you can see it with the...

Oh, what's his name?

With the Justice League International by Maxwell Lord.

Like, you still see some...

Terrific hot girl, guy gardener.

Terrific gardener, a hot girl.

You still see some of the suits they had in the comic books in it, but they added his cooperative tag on it with the logos.

I like to call them the superhero are corrupt suits.

Because it perfectly sums up everything about it.

But Kingdom Come, it's not gonna be a comic book that heavily inspires the movie.

I added more as an easter egg, mainly because of the logo of the Superman logo on the series.

But I still think about it, this Brandon Roof quote that he said in The Christ on Infinite Earths because of this logo.

Because he had the red and black.

Los asked him, why is it black?

He said that because even in darkest times, hope cuts through.

Hope is the light that brings us out of the darkness.

And I think that he can use the Superman logo, not because it's on the iconic logo and it looks very nice, to be honest.

I really like it.

But because he wants to show what it represents with the Superman.

Because Superman, this suit is a mix of all the other suits that were before the New 52.

Yes, many, many, many.

Every little detail is from something else.

The collar is the New 52, the logo is Kingdom Come, the trunks are Donner.

The collar, yeah, you mentioned.

Yeah.

Even the trunks, the shape and style of it is very similar to All Star.

Yeah, exactly.

But that being said, I think that Kingdom Come will only have the more philosophical take that is inspired, will be used on the Superman movie, not the plot of the movie.

Okay.

I hope it makes sense.

Yeah, it makes sense.

What do you like, especially about Kingdom Come?

What makes it your favorite comic?

Not only the art, but the seriousness of it.

Because it starts with one thing.

I don't know why.

Yeah, it starts with one simple thing.

You start with one man who is invaded by the Spectre.

He gets into his mind and tells him the future, that there will be war, people will die.

And that's it.

You start it seriously.

And it doesn't stop being serious till the end.

Because in the end, you have this...

After everything stopped, the war ended, you have this moment of relief.

And I feel like while reading it, I didn't have time to laugh, to have different emotions than, you know, just wanting it to explore what's going to happen next.

And it didn't stop.

I didn't stop reading it.

I didn't stop trusting that Mark Waid will deliver something good.

And I have to say that, not to spoil to people who didn't read it, but this comic book is the most, at least for me, is one of the most serious, the most deep, and the most important comic books in history.

Especially for the DC Universe.

Especially for the DC Universe.

I may be overestimating.

No, I think that's fair to say.

Especially heading into the 2000s, I really think it changed.

If you look at Jeff Johns' work in the 2000s, it's heavily inspired by Mark Waid, both for Flash and even for this Kingdom Come.

Yeah, even a bit of Superman too.

I will tell you, while we're on the topic of Superman, have you heard of Superman 2000?

You know what that is?

Yes.

I've heard that.

At least what I've heard.

I haven't read it.

But I've heard that this was the comic book that started the new era for Superman.

It was supposed to be.

Okay, it was supposed to be.

Never got made.

Grant Morrison, who did All-Star Superman, Mark Waid, who did Superman Birthright, Mark Miller, who did Superman Red Sun.

Those are like the three big guys for the Superman 2000.

They were all going to work on a thing together.

And then it just fell apart and never happened.

So then each of them individually went and did their own version.

It's called Superman 2000.

Yeah, I've heard it was meant to be the most important comic book about Superman.

Yeah, but, yeah, okay.

Yeah, but, you know, I'm not crying as much as I would cry, as I cried after learning that Superman lives wasn't made.

Yeah, seriously, I would much prefer to see Superman lives than Superman 2000s at this point.

But what I'm saying about Superman 2000s, it transformed into a lot of the other comics that we just talked about.

So DNA is there because we did see its creators.

Superman lives, that died in development.

So we never saw, except for the Flash movie.

We saw, we knew what the premise was.

We basically knew the whole plot story about the brain.

But it's not the same as seeing the movie.

I think another interesting one was Superman Fly By by JJ Abrams.

That's the one where he cast Henry Cavill and Amy Adams in 2005 or something.

I think that would have been pretty interesting.

And his Superman with, was it Zor-El?

I don't remember.

I did read part of the script at the time.

It was most, Michael B.

Jordan was supposed to play this, the Superman.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, that's a shame.

It was the Earth to Superman.

Yeah, yeah, that's a shame that that didn't happen.

With this white silver suit.

That was odd.

That was odd.

That was odd.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, that's frustrating.

That didn't go anywhere, especially after Sinners.

Like, give him a Superman movie.

What are you doing?

I mean, I think it was 2017, 2018.

2021, 2021.

Yeah, it was during the pandemic.

Oh, yeah, it was.

OK, I know now it was this moment when JJ Abrams wanted to make all those.

He had the contract to make all those Multiversal Elseworld DC stories.

And he started with Constantine.

He started with Constantine.

He casted Papa El Cedio, I think, who is now playing Snape, as John Constantine.

A few months later, the project was cancelled.

He started Superman.

The project was cancelled.

And now Warner Brothers doesn't want to work with him because he didn't pay for things.

He didn't do a single thing.

Exactly.

He took money and didn't do a single thing.

The smartest businessman in Hollywood takes the money and do nothing.

Or take the money and do Star Wars Episode IX and kill the franchise.

This guy.

This guy.

He's going back to Superman.

All right.

So some other racks I want to mention really quickly.

Have you heard Superman's secret identity?

Have you heard of that?

I've heard of it.

I haven't read it.

God dang.

That is really good.

It's not Superman that you know at all.

It's a complete alternate universe.

I'm not going to spoil a single thing about it, but it's basically kind of set in our real world.

And it's like, what if one guy was inspired to be like Superman?

And holy moly.

That's a great one.

That's a great one.

I'm not going to spoil anything.

Superman Red Sun.

Of course, that's a great one.

Classic.

The ending is the best part.

And that was inspired by Grant Morrison.

Grant Morrison came up with that ending.

Superman Birthright, Mark Waid.

That's heavily inspired by Smallville.

And Smallville took a lot of inspiration from that.

They just symbiosis.

They just work together.

I think we might see a little bit of that also in the Superman movie.

Kind of origin story, Silver Age stuff, his relationship with Lex.

That's another good classic one.

I would more forget about the original story.

Because Gunn said that he doesn't like doing origin stories nowadays.

And I'm not surprised.

I do.

And Birthright, I really like how when he creates this Clark identity.

There's a moment when he's looking at the mirror and he's working with his parents and he's trying to figure out what is Superman and what is Clark Kent.

And you actually see him brainstorming, coming up with ideas, trying different things to figure out these two personas.

His relationship with Lex is really good in that.

And then the end gets really crazy with this Krypton invasion sci-fi weirdness.

Next one I want to mention is American Alien.

Have you read that?

It's by Max Landis, who kind of sucks, but American Alien is neat because each chapter is a different stage in Clark's life.

So he starts really small, he gets older.

Each chapter is with a different artist.

So there's tons of fantastic art.

It's really beautiful.

And you see Superman's development and it's a kind of more grounded take.

Very, very modern.

So it's kind of nice if you don't want to go back to the 90s to read something from there.

Of course, we also have Up in the Sky, but this is kind of something like the reverse of All-Star, where it's the early days of Superman and separate adventures in his early days.

And then you wanted to talk about World's Finest, right?

What do you think about that?

I think it's a great comic book to be adapted.

It already was adapted into an animated movie.

Where Superman and Batman team up.

And their Supergirl comes to Earth.

He tries to basically make her Cara Danvers in the end.

But I still really love its premise as a comic book about Superman and Batman only working together.

And that's the thing that people thought Batman v Superman will be about.

And don't do this to me.

I love Snyder Verge.

Don't do this to me.

Yeah.

But I think that the biggest issue with World's Finest is, first of all, the budget, people's expectations.

Third, you have to make this universe survive for a few years.

Yeah.

But this would be, I think, this is what fans really are waiting for.

When you look at BDS, the opening was fantastic, the opening weekend because people were hoping for that.

And I think this is a slam dunk if James Gunn sets it up.

And you have Batman and Superman, they shake hands.

Oh my God, a billion dollars.

That's all they have to do is just shake hands.

They shake hands at the end of the Zack Snyder's Justice League too.

How did you get back to the house?

Anyway, while Amy Adams might be pregnant with Bruce Wayne, who knows what Zack Snyder was doing, right?

Okay.

Also, World Finest, I want to mention, Mark Waid recently did a World Finest, Batman and Superman World Finest with Dan Mora on art.

Have you heard about this?

It's real good.

It's really, really good.

Fantastic art, great writing.

Kind of, I think, an alternate universe.

It's very classic.

You should check that out.

A long, long run.

Mark Waid, Dan Mora.

Dan Mora is like the best artist at DC right now.

And Mark Waid, of course...

Besides Jim Lee, of course.

Jim Lee doesn't draw as much, you know?

Jim Lee is more good.

He's still, you know, one of the greatest comic book artists.

Sure, of course, of course.

But he just, he doesn't do much anymore.

Dan Mora cooks regularly.

Yeah.

All right.

So I think I think that's a pretty good list of Superman recs to check out.

Let's talk about the movie.

Let's talk about the movie.

Oh, do you want to start positives or negatives?

What are you looking forward to or what are you worried about?

Maybe let's let's start with what we're worried about so that we can end a positive.

I am worried about how this looks.

I mean, I'm a little excited because it looks so different.

I think it'll be fun in 3D.

We're going to go to IMAX 3D and I'm really excited.

Your first IMAX movie since, no, your first 3D movie.

My first 3D movie since Spike It's Free or No, The Hobbit and I expected Journey.

God bless you.

Wow.

Have you seen an IMAX movie before?

Have you seen an IMAX movie?

Yeah, I saw The Flash in the IMAX.

But it wasn't 3D?

No, it was 3D.

Okay.

Yeah, so this will be fun then.

But it was the real IMAX.

And before that, it's funny because I only saw two movies in 3D and I only saw two movies in IMAX 2D.

And it was The Flash and Fantastic Beasts, The Crimes of Grindelwald and that's it.

No wonder.

This explains so much.

Why are you saying it's like it's a negative about me?

No, why are you like, I don't know if we should do 3D for this?

And I'm like, what happened to you?

As some background, I still thought people are using the red and blue glasses from the year of our Lord 2020.

I have them, look, I have them right here.

Check this out.

This is what they look like, there's no red and blue.

This is the thumbnail.

This is going to be the thumbnail for this video.

I should bring, I should go and find my red and blue glasses.

I think, I'm trying to think, I think I might have gotten these from Godzilla King of the Monsters, I think.

I don't remember.

Yeah, maybe that was it.

I don't know.

I have a couple that I have.

Anyway, so this movie looks pretty weird.

I think it will be cool in 3D because there's a lot of teeth flying at the camera.

James Gunn said it was made for 3D.

Yeah, which is cool.

He's really going back to a time before Marvel.

He's really changing the role.

Spikers.

Sharkboy and Lava Girl.

Hey man, stuff was cool.

It was cool.

But I think a lot of it does look weird.

I think David Cornsworth and Rachel Brosnahan are fantastic castings.

I love Nicholas Cole.

I was going to get off.

It just looks weird to me and I don't get it.

I don't have a sense of who this character is and I'm missing that.

There's so much stuff happening all over this movie.

How many planets do they go to?

How many villains are there?

What the heck is happening?

I don't know what's going on when I look at these trailers.

But I like James Gunn.

I like his Guardians trilogy.

I saw Guardians 3 with you and I think both of us were like kind of quietly crying at the end.

It was a great movie.

I was still crying at the end.

Yeah.

I remember when Guardians 3 ended and I remember I looked over at you and you were like, you were feeling it, man.

You were feeling it.

So I trust James Gunn.

I just think it looks pretty weird.

And I just want to sense, I want a sense of the characterizations.

Who is the Superman?

Who is the slowest?

Who is the flex?

And who is the podcast?

I'm just kind of missing that right now.

Okay.

I have to say that look at the trailer.

Go back to the trailers for Guardians 3 and for the Suicide Squad.

And they all look pretty similar with the camera work, the camera direction, the different scenes.

I have to say, for god sakes, people stop saying it looks like CW.

No, no way.

Maybe it looks like CW, Superman and Lois, but not like the season 7 or 8 of The Flash, CW or The Supergirl.

God bless, not Smallville.

It doesn't look like Smallville.

Yeah, Smallville looks better, even if it's cheap and cheesy costumes.

Oh my god.

There was one thing that I was really, really afraid about up to the few days ago.

The whole story of the movie being split into different days, different tags.

It was basically David Fincher on steroids.

I mean, it's like All-Star.

It's like up in the sky, right?

Yeah, but it's a movie.

You expect people going to the movie, not expecting to read a comic book.

Yeah, so they want the collaborative story, the constant story making sense.

I was very afraid of what this whole previous version was going to do with this movie.

And now I'm not that afraid.

Okay.

Because it kind of fixes some negatives I had about the plot.

I'm not going to spoil anything, but...

Yeah, don't, don't, don't.

I kind of feel the opposite because I feel like if he structured it as in chapters, then, you know, it's a little bit weird, but I'll trust him.

Now if he's panicking and if he's restructuring it and editing from chapters to one story, now I'm worried if he's changing it at the last minute because then it can get kind of sloppy.

So I think he should, he should commit, he should stick to what his script was and commit and have full confidence in what he's doing.

If he's panicking at the last minute and changing things, then I'm going to get nervous.

Yeah, but think about it.

You want this movie to get to everyone and not only people.

You have to get even to the people who's got to see the Superman for the first time.

So you have to get them right from the beginning.

You have to get them, you know, they have to feel they're watching an amazing movie.

They can easily understand and not think much about.

He needs the world falling in love with Superman again.

Exactly.

He must do what Richard Donner did back in the 78.

Yeah.

Can you believe that?

He must bring DC back on the map.

47 years later.

Yeah.

It doesn't care if I love Snyderverse.

It doesn't care.

It doesn't matter if I like DCX and the Universe movies or projects.

I may be one of the few hundred thousand people who like them.

James Gunn must do everything in his power to make several hundred million people love Superman and DC again.

And it's his hardest and toughest job ever.

Many people don't even understand how important is doing a Superman movie nowadays.

You have to think very carefully about what you do.

You have to honor the legacy of the character.

You have to honor the legacy of the whole universe.

You have to make people say good things about the movie.

And Superman is the most important character, figure in pop culture ever.

I even had separate lectures on my American studies focused only on Superman.

Oh, really?

It's how important he was to the whole American and worldwide culture.

As much as I love Superman, I just think there's so much that everybody wants.

And it's kind of like Star Wars.

And it's like I almost feel frustrated because no matter what you do, someone's going to hate it and be angry and upset no matter what you do.

And you can just commit and make your perfect movie.

But even just making a perfect movie is going to be really hard.

Just let it exist up here.

It's like it's almost not worth the effort to make it.

But if he does do it and if he does get the world to love Superman again, well, that's a great thing, man.

That's a really good thing.

Yeah, you know, it doesn't matter if we get all the Easter eggs or if people will go and why does it happening?

It doesn't make sense or whatever.

It's a that's why I say it's one of the most important movies, not only for James Gunn, but for the pop culture.

I still have, I'm not going to say I'm very afraid about watching it, but I try to be carefully optimistic.

Sure, sure.

Because I'm really hyped for it.

For me, it looks good.

I really love the action scenes.

I really love the camera work.

I really, okay, I don't like the black Adam chasing, flying through the sky adaptation in Superman.

But he did it with Adam Waterlock and see what became of the Guardians of the Galaxy 3.

Yeah, oh, I heard an amazing thought yesterday that he's trying to adapt the comic book panels straight into the movie because the Superman flying, the one we were laughing about, it's taken straight from the comic book.

If it was in the comic book, you wouldn't say a thing.

I understand what you're saying.

It's kind of that exaggerated reality kind of, again, going back to pre-MCU, when you watch a movie like Ghost Rider or Angleys Hulk or when they didn't know how to do comic book, when they didn't know how to do comic book movies, so they were trying to do this kind of exaggerated, bigger than reality and Marvel has dampened that.

I guess James Gunn is trying to imagine a superhero universe where Marvel never existed, the MCU never happened.

What could superhero movies look like?

So that's pretty cool actually from that point of view that he's trying to like reinterpret, start from scratch.

What is a different superhero movie if you never saw an MCU?

What else could this be?

So I mean, I like so much of this on paper.

I just need to see it in execution, I think.

That's what I just need to be convinced about.

Yeah.

What else is there that I didn't like?

I still have to know to see more of Nicolas Coles, Lex Luthor.

I want to see more Lex in the podcast.

Yeah, because when he was in the trailer and he didn't say anything, I was like...

But it was the second trailer, I think, where he was in The Fortress of Solitude.

And he just said, Superman.

And I already felt it.

It's weird, but it's really weird.

But his mimic and him saying it in a particular way, it made me feel like, OK, I get it now.

I get it why you get him.

I want to see more.

I want to see more of that Lex Paakens.

I want to know what happened to Maakens.

I just have...

I feel like watching the trailer, I have...

For how long?

For when?

How long?

I just...

I feel like the more trailers I watch, the more questions I have.

Oh, definitely.

And I don't mean that in a fun, creative way, but just like, what are they...

What are they doing?

Okay.

Did you notice that those trailers try to adapt certain scenes and certain Superman movies from the past?

Like, in the first trailer, you felt like...

At some point, I felt like I was reaching Superman returns again, especially when metropolis splits in the half or whatever.

It was when Kevin Spacey, like Luthor, dropped the kryptonite into the ocean and split the metropolis.

Okay.

Mayhem.

So it really reminded me of that.

Of course, you have a lot of Man of Steel, Snyderverse, Easter eggs because James and Zack are friends.

James really loves Zack's version of Superman.

You have a lot of, of course, Donner.

Also, what I noticed, I may be, you know, I may be coping, but I also noticed some Easter eggs, some moments taken straight from Smallville and from the Superman and Lois.

Because Easter egg, fun fact, spoiler, if you don't want to hear, one person who was in Smallville is in this movie.

Oh, sure, sure, sure.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, I know, I know.

I saw, I saw some message about that.

Yeah.

So it's not a spoiler.

It's Michael Rosenbaum.

Who is friends?

He's friends with James Gunn.

Yeah, the best exorcist ever.

And I think that we can talk about it because it was revealed that Bradley Cooper is also in the movie.

And many people may not know yet who he is, so we're not going to spoil it, but it's pretty easy to, to-

I saw, I saw a guess earlier.

So I'm just going to assume that guess is correct.

Yeah, yeah, it was already confirmed because it was one, in one of the scenes that was revealed from the movie.

That's cool.

Not a big fan, but I wonder if they're going to do a very much different take on this character.

I'm sure they will.

I'm sure they will, yeah.

Because is he going to be more of the Man of Steel version of this character?

Or more of the My Adventures of Superman version?

I think just like everything James Gunn is doing, I think it's going to be a complete 180 from Zack Snyder.

More like a 90 or 270.

It really seems like everything Snyder did, James Gunn is almost doing the opposite.

Maybe, I don't know if it's intentional or not, but almost every single decision Zack made, James Gunn is doing 180.

So whatever this character is, I think he'll be very different from the version in Zack's movie.

Oh, yeah.

Definitely.

Also, can we go now to the things we love?

Because I really can't say anything bad.

I have this moment in my life with every project that I'm hyped for, that even if I see something bad about it, I just don't want to talk about it because I don't care.

I'm really excited for Crypto.

That's my number one.

Oh, yeah.

Crypto acts like a typical dog and that's amazing.

One of the things I really, really love is focusing on the mini details.

It's what I posted yesterday or day before, is after using Hitvision on a massive scale, he has bruises on his eyes and they stay there for a longer time.

I think that's weird.

I don't know.

I have to get used to that.

I think it looks kind of weird and then I'm like, I just have like practical questions about that.

Like for example, and then he goes back to the Daily Planet, what giant rings around his eyes?

How long does it take for them to heal?

So he covers them or he...

The glasses cover that.

I think it's more of a few hours situation rather than a few minutes.

But still, you can't go right back to the Daily Planet.

Yeah, but let's think about it.

I think that it shows that he overloaded Hitvision.

Got it.

So now it's showing what happens if he overdoes it.

Yeah, because you see, he's hitting a lot of people with a massive power.

Oh, this is good then, because it's showing a limit.

Because you know from games or something, you can't have such a powerful power.

You can't have unlimited.

Every resource has to be limited, right?

So that does make sense.

It's showing the consequence of overusing his Heatvision.

He gets damage.

Got it.

That makes sense.

He gets a sunburn, basically.

Basically, James Gunn is limiting him so that he's not this unlimited god, right?

Which is what we were talking about in some of our other comics, I think.

Yeah, or rather, maybe he's making him this version of Superman, the one who doesn't want to cross certain boundaries.

But I think it's more that maybe he's trying to show that Superman has limits, especially right now.

He's not all-powerful.

He's not invincible.

He has limits.

He can crash into the earth and go, ah, Trypto, take me home, right?

That he can be hurt and damaged, even with his own heat vision, that he's not unlimited, not yet at least.

Or maybe, yeah, at least for now, because I think that he still didn't reach even the half of his true potential.

Okay.

Yeah.

And I think that it's maybe a stretch, but I think they revealed one of the new powers in the trailer for a second.

What power?

Tell me.

I think it may have something to do with his breathe, not the freeze breathe, but something else.

But I may be wrong.

I may be stretching, but when Metamorphor is holding him and his baby in the quantum realm.

Is it quantum realm?

Yeah.

But I may be stretching.

It was a long week.

So I may be stretching a little bit, but yeah.

Okay.

No, I didn't notice anything.

I think I'm okay with new powers, if they can show it in an interesting creative way.

I love in Superman the movie when Superman is going to see Lex's lair for the first time, and he goes and he turns himself into a drill, then he drills down.

Why not?

That's fun.

Or when potentially he's reading Lois' mind when they're flying.

Of course, it's just the song, but at the same time, you can almost interpret it.

She's saying, can you read my mind?

And you hear it clearly, but of course, he doesn't have telepathy.

I like that.

I think that really goes to the creative flexibility of the Silver Age, where you're free to just make up powers for Superman.

It doesn't have to be limited to these heat vision, strength, speed, super hearing, whatever.

Let him get a little bit crazy.

That's very Grant Morrison, very Silver Age.

Let him have some weird new powers, but every power has some kind of limit.

Okay.

Yeah.

So I'll be done with it if they do give him some kind of new powers.

As long as it doesn't feel like it's like a do-sex machina, where it comes out of nowhere at the end of the movie just to save the day.

But if it's something that's established and set up.

I at least like that James Gunn is breaking the mold of Superman, and he's giving us something different.

Just like when a band releases a new song, you want it to be familiar, but if it's too familiar, you complain.

If it's too different, you complain.

Somehow, you want it to be exactly like what came before but also not.

That's impossible.

You have to let it come out, and then you have to give it some time, chew on it.

Then you say, actually, Man of Steel wasn't that bad.

Actually, Superman 2025, it wasn't that bad.

You have to have time to digest it.

More people say bad things about BBS than Man of Steel, so still a win.

Man of Steel was kind of decent, and I think they could have made a really good Man of Steel 2 after that.

It's because Christopher Nolan was one of the writers and producers.

I think maybe that's part of it, but I think that Henry Cavill, I thought he was perfect.

Casting.

I thought he's perfect casting.

Michael Wilkinson does great costume.

Hans Zimmer does great music.

They're such a good team.

Also, this movie is like a wine.

It gets better with age.

Yeah.

I think there was some problems with Man of Steel, but not impossible.

I think Man of Steel 2, even BBS could have been good.

James Gunn, I hope, whatever he does in this movie, he does better next time.

He doesn't fall apart like the last DCU did.

That's harsh, but I agree.

I don't want to repeat.

Because remember, it all wouldn't happen if the tragedy didn't happen to Zack Snyder.

We would get Zack Snyder just like 10 years earlier, or not 10, but a few years earlier.

The universe would look different because they wouldn't try to...

Everything would have been different.

Yeah, the damage control and whatever.

Yeah, a lot of things would have changed.

We actually might have gotten a Justice League, too.

I don't know, I don't know.

Maybe Zack makes his movie in 2017.

Maybe audiences hate it.

I think at this point he's attached to one of the secret projects, but not as a director, like a producer.

Right now?

Oh, that's cool.

I don't know if it's live-action or animated, but I guess it would be on one of the announced animated shows.

Maybe Mr.

Miracle.

Because Mr.

Miracle would fit him, I think.

Actually, that would be super weird.

Because it would be the more mature show.

And Mr.

Miracle, Tom King's version, is a big deconstruction.

And I would argue it's not very faithful at all to Kirby's original.

But Zack Snyder wouldn't care about that.

Zack Snyder is your deconstruction guy.

Right?

That's interesting.

You basically bring Zack Snyder to make something new from what people know.

From what people expect.

People don't really know me.

The road goes like this.

It has, you know, different terms.

But when you get Zack Snyder, at the beginning, it goes like this.

And you don't know what it's like.

It's like the unknown road you try to explore.

And, yeah, you're excited for the future of the Rebel Moon universe.

Is that what you're saying?

Haven't seen it yet.

Big Rebel Moon fan over here.

Haven't seen part one.

Haven't seen part two.

Fake Zack Snyder fan.

I'm a fan of Zack Snyder's DC Universe, not Zack Snyder's Rebel Moon universe.

I like Watchmen.

Watchmen is...

I think we have to do the next year or maybe even this year, before we have the anniversary, we have to talk about Watchmen, because it's one of the most underestimated movies.

I think that would be a fun one if we get a group together.

Everyone has an opinion.

We force John to watch it, we maybe force Red to re-watch it, and then we do a five-hour talk or watch together.

Maybe not five hours, but yeah.

Yeah.

All right.

Anything else on Superman?

Maybe questions from our fans.

Sure.

Let me pull those up.

Okay.

We had some questions from our Patreon.

Dom D, Dom Daniels01 says, do y'all recommend reading All-Star Superman?

Yes.

We covered that.

I know that was a major inspiration for the upcoming film, especially since the cover was used when Gunn officially revealed the initial DCUs.

Like any other major Superman stories I showed you before the movie.

Okay.

We just gave a whole list.

Yeah.

Repeat it.

The All-Star Superman, the Superman Up in the Sky, Superman For All Seasons, Kingdom Come, Superman Volume 1, Supercorp, and Superman What Happened to the Man of Tomorrow.

These are the six comic books that were for 100 percent confirmed.

I can give my life, vouch my life for it, were used as a direct inspiration for the movie.

Some in bigger ways, some in much less way, but they were used.

So those six, you can additionally read what we talked about.

Secret Identity, Lex Luthor, Man of Steel, Red Sun, Birthright, American Alien, World's Finest.

But those are just for fun, right?

Yeah, those are just fun, but those six are the main inspiration.

So I would say, and I would say if you read only three, All Star, Kingdom Come, For All Seasons.

Those are the main three.

And those are like some of the greatest Superman comics ever.

They're looking at good stuff.

OK, our friend Rodova says, Outside of the most touted title, are there any obscure comics and storylines, including Superman, that are worth reading?

What would you consider must-reads for anyone with remote interest in Superman?

I feel like we kind of covered that also.

The Red Sun is one of the most obscure in my opinion.

You think so?

Yeah, because it's...

They made a movie.

They made a movie, but it makes Superman...

I don't want to say evil, but at this point...

Because he's Russian.

And then...

But then it's such an interesting point of view.

At his core, he's still Superman.

He was raised in a different country with different values, and he struggles, and he has an identity crisis.

It's very, very interesting.

And I love the character designs in it too.

You can read Flashpoint, because Superman is a very weak version of Superman there.

I really like Grant Morrison, his JLA run from the 90s.

He does some weird stuff with Superman that's actually very good.

This is before All Star.

This is the whole Justice League, and it has Superman after the rebirth, after Doomsday.

When Superman has his long hair, he has the mullet.

There's one part where you go Superman red, Superman blue, the electric duo.

Yeah, so there's some cool stuff in there.

Grant Morrison's JLA.

What else?

I'm trying to...

Oh yeah, the John Cairns story.

Sure.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I think you wrote the review for that last year, right?

Exactly, yeah.

Two years ago.

It's a very good comic book, so I certainly can say that you can read this one.

Maybe some Supergirl comic books.

Supergirl is so complicated.

There's so many versions of her, and it's a little bit messy to figure out where to start.

Oh, I know.

I know what one.

Injustice, of course.

Injustice.

How could I forget about Injustice?

Sure.

Sure.

Injustice 1 and Injustice 2.

Because they are all played in year 0, year 1, year 2, year 3, year 4, year 5.

RedGarados2010 says, I'm curious if you have any recommendations for the other heroes.

He says, if you have any recommendations for the other heroes and villains that are less popular, Ultraman, Max Lord, Guy Gardner, Hawk Girl, Terrific, Metamorpho.

For Hawk, I really like Hawk World by Tim Truman.

It probably has nothing to do with the movie.

Is this one where they are the Cosmic Police?

Something like that.

They have their own planet.

It has absolutely nothing to do with the movie, but it's probably some of the best Hawk comics ever.

It's so good.

It's called Hawk World.

There's a mini-series and then there's a long ongoing.

I think by Jib Ostender.

In the movie, Hawk Girl is a metahuman.

Just like in the DR.

Overs.

Yeah, so there's Tim Truman and then John Ostender continues from there.

Good stuff.

Hawk World is really good.

For Mr.

Terrific, I like there's a comic called...

I think it was called Thy Kingdom Come.

It was from Jeff John's Justice Society Series.

And it's a sequel to Kingdom Come.

And you have Mr.

Terrific, and he just has this little moment where he's talking about his origin story and his universe and where he came from.

And it just...

Maybe it's just an issue or two, but it's really, really good.

And when I was a kid, Mr.

Terrific was probably my, like, one of my very, very favorite heroes because of Jeff John's, like, one or two issues just focused on Michael Holt and that comic.

That's a really good one.

It's like a sequel to Kingdom Come and Jeff John's mid-2000s Justice Society.

Metamorpho.

The upcoming DC collection.

Sure.

That's a collection about Metamorpho.

Yeah.

Definitely.

Oh, another one for Terrific.

The Terrifics, which is by Doc Schaener, and that's a fun one, and Doc Schaener and I think Jeff Lemire, and that's a fun one because it's like the Fantastic Four.

But I think Metamorpho was on that too.

Am I crazy?

No, he's on that.

Metamorpho, Mr.

Terrific, Plastic Man, and Phantom Girl from the Legion of Superheroes.

That's a great one.

The art, Doc Schaener's art is great in that.

It's basically the Fantastic Four.

Max Lord, Justice League International, of course, you have to.

There's a nice comic with Wonder Woman around Infinite Crisis, where she kills him and that launches a thousand problems.

But Justice League International is the key thing you want to read.

It might be hard to find it in print, but I think they've been reprinting it.

Guy Gardner, there's a lot of good ones.

You can go back to the original stuff.

Just a lot of Green Lantern Corps' comic books.

I really recommend for him the Green Lantern Corps from the 2000s, when Jeff Johns was doing his Green Lantern Saga.

There's Green Lantern Corps in parallel and that is really good.

I think Green Lantern Corps was better than Jeff Johns Green Lantern.

It's just side stories with John and with Guy and with Kyle, and there's some really good Guy Gardner stuff in there.

I think Ultraman, I guess Earth 2.

Or maybe Bizarro World.

Sure.

I love Bizarro.

I went through a phase where I went back to the 60s and I just read all the classic Bizarro.

You can cut it out of the podcast if it's anything spoiled, but the Ultraman in the movie, it's a mixture of all the different alternate versions of Superman.

Yeah, that's cool.

That's a name.

It's more similar to the Superman and Loeb version of the Bizarro rather than the Bizarro.

But that was a great version.

That was a great version of Bizarro.

Yeah.

I really like Bizarro.

He's one of my favorite characters.

I had an era where I went back to the 60s and I started.

Bizarro, first appearance.

I just read all the Bizarro appearances going up to the 80s or something.

I love Bizarro because he's trying to be a good guy and do good things.

He just screws up every single time and nobody understands him.

I think that's so human and so relatable that he wants to do good.

He's just a big doofus.

I love Bizarro.

I think we've covered it.

Yeah, I think we can.

All righty.

Thanks, everyone.

Long, long episode, but we love Superman.

We're so excited for the new movie.

If you enjoyed our discussion, be sure to like, subscribe, leave a comment below.

What are your favorite Superman comics?

Let us know.

I'm Vin.

You can find me on Blue Sky at VinWrightsWords.

I'm Vic.

You can find me on Twitter at Eric Salke and on Blue Sky also.

And be sure to follow thecosmiccircus.com on Blue Sky and at My Cosmic Circus.

We can find more reviews, articles, editorials and opinions like the ones you just watched.

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See you next time.

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