It’s not every day a sitting governor stops by the couch. Gretchen Whitmer— the two-term Governor of Michigan, political lightning rod, and the politician affectionately nicknamed “Big Gretch” by the internet — joins us for a wide-ranging conversation that gets into both policy and personhood.

We talk about the realities of leadership: her eight-year legacy, the philosophy of underpromising and overdelivering, making the business case for equity, and why understanding people’s motivations matters more than simply talking at them. She reflects on the formative experiences that shaped her — from early ESPN commentator aspirations to unexpectedly finding her way into public service, plus the intensely difficult period where her mother became seriously ill while she was newly married, moving house, and starting life as a state representative.

We also get into healthcare battles, medical debt, aging parents, the Flint water crisis, abortion rights, tariffs, the kidnapping plot, parenting through political chaos, working with Donald Trump, and why she believes the antidote to apathy is action. Plus: what law she’d enact if she could wave a wand, what comes after public office, what she’s most proud of — and whether Zach thinks she should run for president (resounding yes!).

Sponsored by Ross — find your nearest store at RossStores.com.

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