What if leadership isn’t about influence at all? In this episode of Work Unscripted, host Marlo Lyons sits down with researcher and leadership expert Dr. Jacob Kashiwagi to explore a radically different leadership philosophy: “no influence leadership.”

Instead of persuading, motivating, or trying to change people, Dr. Kashiwagi argues that great leaders focus on something much simpler and much harder: understanding people and aligning them in the right roles to succeed.

Their conversation challenges some of our more traditional ideas about leadership development and raises important questions for today’s workplace:

• Can leadership actually be taught?
• Why do some leaders succeed in one organization but fail in another?
• What do Gen Z employees really want from work?
• Why are so many corporate decisions based on belief instead of data?

Marlo and Dr. Kashiwagi also explore how authenticity, deep listening, and humility are becoming critical leadership skills in an era shaped by AI, automation, and rapid organizational change.

For leaders, managers, and HR professionals navigating culture shifts, workforce expectations, and performance challenges, this episode offers a powerful reframing: Leadership isn’t about influencing or controlling people. It’s about understanding them.

Connect with Marlo Website | LinkedIn | Instagram
-----------
Work Unscripted is produced by the team at Palm Tree Pod Co.