My guest on this episode is Michelle Shephard. Michelle is an award-winning author, journalist, filmmaker, and podcast host and producer. She is the author of Guantanamo’s Child: The Untold Story of Omar Khadr and Decade of Fear: Reporting from Terrorism’s Grey Zone. Her films include the Emmy-nominated documentary Guantanamo’s Child, The Perfect Story, The Man Who Stole Einstein's Brain, and The Way Out. Her most recent book is Code Name: Pale Horse, which she co-wrote with retired FBI Special Agent Scott Payne, and which was published by Simon & Schuster in 2025. Kirkus Reviews called it “an eye-opening look at the small but eminently dangerous radical right-wing fringe out there in the shadows.”

Michelle and I talk about the kinds of things she has witnessed while reporting in places like Guantanamo Bay, about how she—an unapologetically lefty journalist who has reported extensively on abuses by the police and other government forces—handled co-writing a book with a former FBI agent, and about the journalist/novelist she looks to as a model as she contemplates trying her hand at a work of fiction.

This podcast is produced and hosted by Nathan Whitlock, in partnership with The Walrus.

Music: "simple-hearted thing" by Alex Lukashevsky. Used with permission.

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