In this episode of This Week in Carbon, host Rene Velasquez (filling in for Edward over Thanksgiving) is joined by Naomi Chloe Swickard – a 20-year veteran of the carbon and conservation space, former leader of Verra’s REDD+ program, architect of the world’s first jurisdictional REDD+ framework, and key contributor to the new consolidated VM0048 methodology. Naomi delivers a candid, insider masterclass on where forests and carbon markets actually stand at the end of 2025, why progress is happening outside COP, and what it will really take to scale high-integrity nature-based solutions.We discuss:• Naomi’s unexpected entry into the market (a chance meeting at a bar in Thailand) and two decades shaping REDD+• COP Berlin (“the Forest COP”) debrief: symbolic wins, missed opportunities, and why the real action is now beyond the UNFCCC• The capitalism paradox: growth vs. climate, tragedy of the commons, and the lack of enforcement teeth• REDD+ evolution: from VM0007 to VM0048, jurisdictional nesting, risk-map allocation, and the first issuances finally landing• Market reality check: delayed supply, ICVCM approval, green-hushing, and quiet rebuilding of demand• Project vs. jurisdictional REDD: why both are essential and must co-exist indefinitely• The permanence debate, the integrity-vs-scale trap, and why “perfect” is preventing near-term climate impact• Standing-forest protection vs. the removals renaissance: where capital is flowing and where it’s still missing• Clarity gaps: SBTI’s new guidance, Article 6.2 momentum, debt-for-nature swaps, and emerging financing models• 2026–2030 outlook: jurisdictional acceleration, blue carbon & peatlands, contribution claims, and the turbulent road to a workable, scalable market