And what is he trying to do? Kate Mason, Jack Pitt-Brooke and Elias Burke are joined by writer and presenter for TIFO Football and author of 'The Spectre Of Pep' - Jon Mackenzie, to discuss De Zerbi ball, his patterns of play, whether he has the right players to succeed and when we might start seeing his true tactics in action.

We also discuss Jack's interview with a former Spurs maanger and Everton at home on Saturday.

Hosts: Kate Mason, Jack Pitt-Brooke, Elias Burke, Jon Mackenzie

Producer: Tom Fuller

Exec Producer: Adam Jones

Get in touch:

X: @VFTLpodcast

Email: vftl@theathletic.com

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