Most people say they want the truth, but the moment it shows up, they call the messenger a villain. This episode picks up where the Joe Jackson conversation left off and turns the mirror around. The real question isn't whether Joe was too hard on Michael. It's why we keep demonizing every coach, mentor, and visionary with the gift to push us toward what we say we want.

DISCLAIMER: Our focus in this episode is not the Jackson family, and we are not endorsing or excusing abuse of any kind. Our focus is what happens when people push us because they see we are capable of more, and get demonized for it. The Jackson story is a starting point, not the subject.The guys dig into why visionaries always get villainized, why our relationship with trauma is broken, and the difference between feedback and validation. Karl shares the "Carlos" moment that changed how he receives criticism. ET tells the Mr. Gene swim instructor story that put this entire philosophy to the test with his own son.

If you've ever fired the person trying to save you, this one is for you.

In this episode: Why every visionary, from Moses to Joe Jackson, gets demonized during the process Why you can't receive help unless it comes wrapped exactly the way you want it The difference between looking for feedback and looking for validation How ET almost fired the swim instructor who taught his entire family to swim How to narrate your own story without playing the victim

CHAPTERS:

Chapters

• 00:00:00 Opening: Karl OS - The New Operating System
• 00:01:39 Welcome and Team Introductions: The Michael Jackson Movie Discussion
• 00:03:24 Did Michael Jackson Play the Victim His Whole Life?
• 00:04:15 Joe Jackson: Visionary or Villain?
• 00:23:06 The Gary, Indiana Reality Check
• 00:25:01 Feelings vs. Goals: Why Most People Stay Stuck
• 00:28:35 The Mr. Jean Swimming Lesson Story
• 00:37:12 Stop Looking for Validation, Start Looking for Feedback
• 00:44:20 Karl's Transformation: From Soft to Strategic
• 00:43:17 Next Level Speakers Conference Announcement
• 01:01:02 Kalm Down with Karl: Stop Living Your Life Like a Question
• 01:01:50 Mal's Millionaire Moment: Your Pension is Dead
• 01:04:02 The Secret Project Reveal: What Karl and Mal Are Building

KALM DOWN WITH KARL: Stop living your life like a question and live like the answer that you are. God saw a problem on the planet and created you as the solution. Stop walking around uncertain. You are the answer.

MAL'S MILLIONAIRE MOMENT: One pension is too close to no pension. Jemal breaks down how the average career span matches the average mortgage span, meaning you can have a property fully paid off by the time you retire from your day job. That's your second pension. He also shares how he turned his daughter's graduation gift into a down payment on her first property at 22.

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NEXT LEVEL SPEAKERS CONFERENCE: June 5-7, 2026 in Atlanta, GA. Featuring ET, CJ, Jemal, Karl, Inky Johnson, Jeremy Anderson, and Marco Kino. Early bird tickets active now. www.nextlevelspeakersconference.com

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ABOUT THE PODCAST: The Secret to Success Podcast is hosted by Eric Thomas, CJ Quinney, Jemal King, and Karl "The Bajan Sensation" Phillips. The mission: show the authentic side of four men building businesses, marriages, wealth, and legacies in real time. No hype, no filters, just real conversations to help you believe in your own potential.