Can Andy Burnham’s civil service employ fewer but more productive officials? Is it fair to blame Brexit and Covid for the rising headcount? Is the government buying British the best growth policy? How the government can save £30bn a year by being more efficient.

Tech boss Stephen Kelly - former CEO of Sage Group - tells us about working with David Cameron’s government to make £50bn in public sector efficiency savings. Plus find out why he thinks he was sent to the wrong building for a government meeting. Listen to Robert and Steph’s interview.

The Rest is Money is brought to you by Octopus Energy, Britain’s smart energy pioneer.

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Video Editor: Dylan Bonham

Senior Producer: Isabelle Bougeard

Exec Producers: Chris Sawyer and Tom Whiter

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