They say you should never meet your heroes. Daemon Fairless disagrees. He takes us behind-the-scenes on The Outlaw Ocean, S2, from his intimate vantage point as its story editor. Fairless begins by asking host Ian Urbina why he takes the kinds of risks he takes.

This is a frank, illuminating discussion with Urbina, who quit his New York Times job to do some of the hardest, most difficult and often dangerous reporting in the world. He’s since become the de facto beat reporter for the world’s oceans — and if you’ve listened to the series you know his investigations reveal the shocking prevalence of forced labour, mind-boggling overfishing, and the hard truth is that it’s all connected to the cheap seafood we love.

If you’re also wondering what it’s really like to do these investigations, and what Urbina hopes his reporting will achieve, this is the conversation for you.