Physician Jessica Zitter and chaplain Betty Clark to explore their partnership and the making of their film The Chaplain and The Doctor. The documentary, set in Oakland's Highland Hospital, captures the real work of palliative care and spiritual care, alongside a growing friendship between two women who cross lines of race, power, and professional hierarchy. They discuss what it means to listen with compassion, how bias and racism manifest at the bedside, and how storytelling, humility, and friendship can become acts of healing. From funny hospital moments to scenes of deep moral reckoning, this episode shows how two healers learn from each other, and how humanity itself can be the best medicine.

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The Nocturnists is made possible by the California Medical Association and donations from listeners like you.

This episode of Conversations is sponsored by The Physicians Foundation.